Okay, so it's a day after the topic was listed and no one will probably see my comment, but Toshiba Toughbooks are designed to deal with just this kind of environment. Well, actually, they're designed to deal with worse, but...
You can find them on eBay still (and, no, I'm not selling one there, though I am watching a couple).
The irony, of course, is that my "you are in charge of your own destiny" attitude is far LESS common nowadays (coincidentally coupled with a ballooning Western public with obeisity rates bordering on an epidemic). Instead we live in a "oh, it's not your fault!" society that gives everyone an out.
Actually, I think what people miss on this is the idea that, while it may not actually be our fault, it is still our responsibility. Fault, and blame, don't really matter half so much as taking actual responsibility for what's going on. In the end, I'm the only one responsible for my life. So, if I don't do anything to "fix" whatever might be wrong, I shouldn't expect anyone else to fix it for me.
Just a little food for thought for the many, many people who will disagree with your point of view.
Thanks,
Jim
So are Boy Scouts, pal. Check in the recent stories right here on/. and you'll find a Boy Scout that nearly built a reactor in his backyard.
I was an Eagle Scout, back in the day, and you'll find that quite a few interesting people were, too. My brother who's in R&D at Motorola is an Eagle Scout. In fact, check on war heros from WWII, Korea, and Viet Nam. You'll find that a fair percentage of them were Boy Scouts. I use stuff I learned in the Boy Scouts every day. And not just First Aid stuff, either. (Though, I have to admit, in retrospect, Farm Mechanics merit badge was a weird thing for a future techie to have gotten.)
Anyway, my point is, before you start making fun of the Boy Scouts, you might want to check into what they're *really* all about.
I agree. I think students would be better served by required typing classes. When I was in high-school, I was *very* resistant to taking typing, but my parents convinced me that I should. At the time, I figured that I'd have a secretary to do all my typing for me! *HA!* Who would have guessed that I'd come to rely on my keyboard for my living? Not me, that's for sure. But, now, I thank my parents on a regular basis for making me take that mind-numbing typing class.
The moral of the story? Listen to your parents! Every once in a while, they're right!
Um, think about it for a minute. If they want to stay in business, they have to "reinvent" their OS every couple of years anyway. If they don't, what will they have to sell? Have they come up with anything truly new in the past 3 years? (And, no, I'm not counting.NET. They bought most of that when they bought other companies.) Maybe they'll actually build in security the next time around.
Actually, it seems to me that you just need to post the binary to the appropriate newsgroup via a remailer system. So far, they seem to have withstood the legal tests, as well as the forensic ones.
Of course, the real problem is that the developer wants credit. Hey, let's face it, some of these programs take a lot of time and effort. Who wouldn't want to take credit for that? Shoot, look at me, I can't *not* take credit for this measly, little post, much less a *program*. (Maybe Buddhist programers that have no ego...)
Speaking of the Japanese... Do you think they had an advantage in code breaking because of the pictographic nature of their written language? Was it harder to crack Japanese codes for the same reason? Or did it have any impact at all?
Okay, so here's the $64 million-dollar question... Do you know why the DOD has this standard and how well it's been tested? The Answer: Because, they have a device that can read the magnetic signature of your media and duplicate the data. Even if the disk is *severly* damaged, as in burned. I know, I know, it sounds like science-fiction, but it's not. Back when I was new to IS, I worked somewhere that the President visited on a regular basis. One night, while I was signing keys back into Security, there was a Secret Service agent there "checking in" with our staff. (Okay, so he was making sure they'd done what they were told.) Anyway, I struck up a conversation with him and got him talking about technology (ah, social engineering) and he told me about this device that can read the burned remains of a drive for residual magnetic fields and, hence, residual data. To me, it sounded like something out of a William Gibson novel, but this guy claimed that he's seen it done in the lab.
Believe what you will, but I buy it. This guy was "somebody" in the Secret Service, though he's probably retired now.
>>locks only keep honest people honest... sure there are always a few kids that like to try and pick >>locks, but I think they usually do it around their parents house (at least I did).
Now, that's just silly. Locks do a lot more than keep "honest people honest". Locks keep out the casual felon and deter all but the most determined criminals, if they're installed right and backed up by a security system. Now, if the script kiddies could find a "Acme Magic Lock Opener" at the corner comic shop, the analogy might hold up, but they can't. So, locks keep out a whole lot more than just the "honest people". And, if you still feel that way, just install locks on your home, but leave them open. Let who ever happens to *check* the lock wander through your home and fondle your stuff. After all, they're not doing any damage, are they? They're just testing your locks, right? What could be the harm? Oh, and make sure to post your address somewhere that folks wandering by your neighborhood can find it, just in case anyone's curious. Then, you'll have a valid analogy.
What's the matter? Afraid someone might steal some of your hard-earned stuff? Now, do you see why a corporation expects that people shouldn't just "look around" in their network?
Look, you might be ethical, but everyone else in the world isn't. That's why there are laws against B&E. That's also why the same laws should apply to computer systems. It's the same thing.
Absolutely! When the courts start to treat electronic B&E like *physical* B&E, half the damn news stories on/. and HotWired will just go away. Why should it be different just because the "property" was bits and not my papers? B&E is still illegal, no matter how it's performed and needs to be treated the same way. At my last company, we had a SysAdmin from a former subsidiary break into our network because he couldn't be bothered to ask for what he needed. It wasn't a matter of securing the network, it was a matter of securing the personnel! We had to maintain a certain trust relationship between our companies for business reasons, but he used that to break in. We sent him a nice note, quoting State penal code, asking him not to do that again. The law is the law, whether it's in cyberspace or meatspace.
Absolutely! This is the main reason Windows NT, and now Windows 2000, is so insecure. They were both developed with *usability* in mind, not security. Now, any security that's added on is suspect because it relies on code that is inherently insecure!
If it's a secure system you're after, first design in the security, then make it user-friendly. Oh, and don't forget to take a page from the designers of IPv6 and make it ungradable and backwards compatible, too. (No wonder security consultants get paid so much!)
Or, "accidentally" walked past a big electro-magnet. For a litterary reference, check out Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon. They have one built into the door-frame of the server room. You try to take out a server and *wham!*, a whole bunch of blank disks are entered into evidence.
Say, I wonder if that would actually work? ("Oh, is *that* what that other light switch did?. Who woulda' guessed!")
An interesting thought, but do you think it would be an improvement? When was the last time you had to deal with a government paper-pusher? Or stand in line at the Post Office to send a letter or buy stamps? Also, think about this one... Where are they going to get all the qualified personnel that they'll need? Do you think they work for the government now? Think again. They work for independant e-commerce sites, or NSI. So, where does that leave you? Right back in the same situation.
OTH, having the Post Office maintain the central registry... That *might* have some merit. Again, depending on where the folks to run it came from. But, anything, would be better than the slow, antiquated update methods NSI uses now. That's the major reason I use Register.com for as many of my domains as possible. RyuMaou.com is still at NSI, because Register.com didn't exist yet! But, HavePalmWillTravel.com is at Register, as are my others. (As I recall, off the top of my head, I have a dozen or so registered names.)
Yeah, I like your anology better. It's like taking a really big census, door-to-door.
TBH, the thing that disturbs me about it, is that it looks like the first stage of a less than professional hacker (or cracker if you prefer) attack. An inital probe of the defenses, as it were. Why would a company that does "psychographic" work need that kind of information? Unless, of course, they plan to steal usage stats from sites across the 'net.
Maybe it's just a case of secrecy working against itself by default. I don't know what they're up to, but I just automatically distrust corporations that do things like this and keep secret their intentions. Now, of course, I'm waiting for all the conspiracy theories to start working this in!
>>uh, sorry silly rabbit, but rights are for human beings, NOT corporations;) >>Sorry to sound like a Katzista, but that's how I see it. Rights are for peeps, not corps.
Well, that might be how you see it, but I think a lot of judges, corporate lawyers and corporations would disagree. If I can sue a corporation as a single entity, which I can, then that entity has rights. Now, they might have more limited rights than, say, a person, but they still have rights. In fact, they have specific rights regarding privacy, especially if they're not a "public" corporation. IOW, if my company isn't traded publicly, I can hide all kinds of stuff from the general public and other companies. I'm not a lawyer, so, no, I don't know all the details, but I've been in business long enough to see some of this in action. In fact, I've survived a bankruptcy where there were numerous lawsuits filed back and forth between individuals and corporate entities.
I'm glad you cited a source. It's nice for a change to have someone do that.
But, perhaps you need to review *your* history. This country was founded by *businessmen* and, in part, was founded on economic freedoms. Remember the whole "taxation without representation" theme in the Declaration of Independance? Most of the Founding Fathers wanted to see a free-market economy. (At least, from what I've read of Ben Franklin's writtings. Check out "Fart Proudly", truly a masterpiece.) This isn't a political issue at all. It's an *economic* issue. The reason the corporations "run" this country is because we *pay* them to do so! Everytime we buy their goods or services, we encourage them to continue doing business the same way. How else did Microsoft get so big? We happily sent them our money for their product. Those of us that aren't happy with that are starting to use other people's products. (For instance, these days I'm using Corel's Wordperfect Suite on GNU-Linux, instead of Windows and the MS Office Suite.)
The real question is, is it so bad? A lot of people seem to think it's okay, or they wouldn't spend their money the way they do. I happen to agree with you on what's wrong, but not what to do about it. Yes, our government does not serve us anymore, but that's our fault. We need to get out and vote for a change. Get people into office that do care about what *we the people* really want. More importantly, get the people who have not done what we want back *out* of office. Then, we need to follow that up by putting our money where our mouth is, so to speak, and not supporting companies that we don't believe in anymore. And, in that regard, we do all need to educate ourselves more.
However, the Constitution is working just as our Founding Fathers intended it to work. Otherwise some fascist data-filter would have killed both our posts!
First off, if you really knew anything about Freemasonry, you'd realize that they had nothing to do with Nazi Germany. In fact, Hitler drove them underground because he was afraid of them. Now, why would he have been afraid of them if they were in on the whole thing in the first place? You might want to brush up on your history before running off at the keyboard. (And, yes, I am a Freemason, in case you were wondering. And, in fact, of German descent.)
As to the plight of the farmer in France... I can't speak to that much, but I do know about the plight of the individual farmer in the USA. They, too, are becoming corporations. Why? To survive. America has become a land of corporations, but is that so bad? If anyone really knows their history, they'll remember that many of the first settlers were English corporations! Yes, that's right, hard working "Limeys" that were looking for a new business opportunity. Most of our Founding Fathers, including those slippery Freemasons, were *businessmen*. The United States of America was founded as a country based on Freedoms, including, but not limited to: economic freedom, religious freedom, and *personal* freedom. It's why so many people left places like France, England, and even Germany to come to the "New World". Here we have a land of endless opportunity. That's why people still come from all over the world to live, grow and prosper here. The real problem is that most of us who were born here have forgotten that we can prosper, if we work hard enough. Currently, I live in Houston, TX and I can find all sorts of ethnic diversity everywhere I look. I tend to seek it out in the form of food, since I get damn tired of McDonalds, too. (Though, not to the point of actually assaulting a franchise.) So, I like to find myself a nice Thai or Vietnamese restraunt and get lots of good, ethnic food cheaper than the average "super value meal" at McDonalds. And, almost always, it's being run by a little family that came here with next to nothing, but saved their money and worked hard and started their own business. Not a thing stops anyone here from doing the same thing. Except, of course, that they expect their government to do everything for them. Not at all what our corporate, Freemason Founding Fathers wanted this country to be like at all. I wonder if people feel the same way in other countries? Should the French government take care of this farmer who doesn't want to "lose" his "traditions"?
Now, if you'll excuse me, I do have an actual job to do, if I want to get paid.
Slashdot Mirror
Okay, so it's a day after the topic was listed and no one will probably see my comment, but Toshiba Toughbooks are designed to deal with just this kind of environment. Well, actually, they're designed to deal with worse, but...
You can find them on eBay still (and, no, I'm not selling one there, though I am watching a couple).
Cheers!
Jim
The irony, of course, is that my "you are in charge of your own destiny" attitude is far LESS common nowadays (coincidentally coupled with a ballooning Western public with obeisity rates bordering on an epidemic). Instead we live in a "oh, it's not your fault!" society that gives everyone an out. Actually, I think what people miss on this is the idea that, while it may not actually be our fault, it is still our responsibility. Fault, and blame, don't really matter half so much as taking actual responsibility for what's going on. In the end, I'm the only one responsible for my life. So, if I don't do anything to "fix" whatever might be wrong, I shouldn't expect anyone else to fix it for me. Just a little food for thought for the many, many people who will disagree with your point of view. Thanks, Jim
So are Boy Scouts, pal. Check in the recent stories right here on /. and you'll find a Boy Scout that nearly built a reactor in his backyard.
I was an Eagle Scout, back in the day, and you'll find that quite a few interesting people were, too. My brother who's in R&D at Motorola is an Eagle Scout. In fact, check on war heros from WWII, Korea, and Viet Nam. You'll find that a fair percentage of them were Boy Scouts. I use stuff I learned in the Boy Scouts every day. And not just First Aid stuff, either. (Though, I have to admit, in retrospect, Farm Mechanics merit badge was a weird thing for a future techie to have gotten.)
Anyway, my point is, before you start making fun of the Boy Scouts, you might want to check into what they're *really* all about.
I agree. I think students would be better served by required typing classes. When I was in high-school, I was *very* resistant to taking typing, but my parents convinced me that I should. At the time, I figured that I'd have a secretary to do all my typing for me! *HA!* Who would have guessed that I'd come to rely on my keyboard for my living? Not me, that's for sure. But, now, I thank my parents on a regular basis for making me take that mind-numbing typing class.
The moral of the story? Listen to your parents! Every once in a while, they're right!
Um, think about it for a minute. If they want to stay in business, they have to "reinvent" their OS every couple of years anyway. If they don't, what will they have to sell? Have they come up with anything truly new in the past 3 years? (And, no, I'm not counting .NET. They bought most of that when they bought other companies.) Maybe they'll actually build in security the next time around.
We can dream, right?
Actually, it seems to me that you just need to post the binary to the appropriate newsgroup via a remailer system. So far, they seem to have withstood the legal tests, as well as the forensic ones.
Of course, the real problem is that the developer wants credit. Hey, let's face it, some of these programs take a lot of time and effort. Who wouldn't want to take credit for that? Shoot, look at me, I can't *not* take credit for this measly, little post, much less a *program*. (Maybe Buddhist programers that have no ego...)
Cheers!
RyuMaou
Speaking of the Japanese...
Do you think they had an advantage in code breaking because of the pictographic nature of their written language? Was it harder to crack Japanese codes for the same reason? Or did it have any impact at all?
Just wondering...
RyuMaou
Okay, so here's the $64 million-dollar question... Do you know why the DOD has this standard and how well it's been tested? The Answer: Because, they have a device that can read the magnetic signature of your media and duplicate the data. Even if the disk is *severly* damaged, as in burned. I know, I know, it sounds like science-fiction, but it's not.
Back when I was new to IS, I worked somewhere that the President visited on a regular basis. One night, while I was signing keys back into Security, there was a Secret Service agent there "checking in" with our staff. (Okay, so he was making sure they'd done what they were told.) Anyway, I struck up a conversation with him and got him talking about technology (ah, social engineering) and he told me about this device that can read the burned remains of a drive for residual magnetic fields and, hence, residual data. To me, it sounded like something out of a William Gibson novel, but this guy claimed that he's seen it done in the lab.
Believe what you will, but I buy it. This guy was "somebody" in the Secret Service, though he's probably retired now.
Food for though!
RyuMaou
>>locks only keep honest people honest... sure there are always a few kids that like to try and pick >>locks, but I think they usually do it around their parents house (at least I did).
Now, that's just silly. Locks do a lot more than keep "honest people honest". Locks keep out the casual felon and deter all but the most determined criminals, if they're installed right and backed up by a security system.
Now, if the script kiddies could find a "Acme Magic Lock Opener" at the corner comic shop, the analogy might hold up, but they can't. So, locks keep out a whole lot more than just the "honest people". And, if you still feel that way, just install locks on your home, but leave them open. Let who ever happens to *check* the lock wander through your home and fondle your stuff. After all, they're not doing any damage, are they? They're just testing your locks, right? What could be the harm? Oh, and make sure to post your address somewhere that folks wandering by your neighborhood can find it, just in case anyone's curious. Then, you'll have a valid analogy.
What's the matter? Afraid someone might steal some of your hard-earned stuff? Now, do you see why a corporation expects that people shouldn't just "look around" in their network?
Look, you might be ethical, but everyone else in the world isn't. That's why there are laws against B&E. That's also why the same laws should apply to computer systems. It's the same thing.
Have a nice day!
RyuMaou
Absolutely! When the courts start to treat electronic B&E like *physical* B&E, half the damn news stories on /. and HotWired will just go away. Why should it be different just because the "property" was bits and not my papers? B&E is still illegal, no matter how it's performed and needs to be treated the same way.
At my last company, we had a SysAdmin from a former subsidiary break into our network because he couldn't be bothered to ask for what he needed. It wasn't a matter of securing the network, it was a matter of securing the personnel! We had to maintain a certain trust relationship between our companies for business reasons, but he used that to break in. We sent him a nice note, quoting State penal code, asking him not to do that again. The law is the law, whether it's in cyberspace or meatspace.
Thanks,
RyuMaou
Absolutely! This is the main reason Windows NT, and now Windows 2000, is so insecure. They were both developed with *usability* in mind, not security. Now, any security that's added on is suspect because it relies on code that is inherently insecure!
If it's a secure system you're after, first design in the security, then make it user-friendly. Oh, and don't forget to take a page from the designers of IPv6 and make it ungradable and backwards compatible, too. (No wonder security consultants get paid so much!)
Cheers!
RyuMaou
Or, "accidentally" walked past a big electro-magnet.
For a litterary reference, check out Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon. They have one built into the door-frame of the server room. You try to take out a server and *wham!*, a whole bunch of blank disks are entered into evidence.
Say, I wonder if that would actually work? ("Oh, is *that* what that other light switch did?. Who woulda' guessed!")
Cheers!
RyuMaou
An interesting thought, but do you think it would be an improvement? When was the last time you had to deal with a government paper-pusher? Or stand in line at the Post Office to send a letter or buy stamps?
Also, think about this one... Where are they going to get all the qualified personnel that they'll need? Do you think they work for the government now? Think again. They work for independant e-commerce sites, or NSI. So, where does that leave you? Right back in the same situation.
OTH, having the Post Office maintain the central registry... That *might* have some merit. Again, depending on where the folks to run it came from. But, anything, would be better than the slow, antiquated update methods NSI uses now.
That's the major reason I use Register.com for as many of my domains as possible. RyuMaou.com is still at NSI, because Register.com didn't exist yet! But, HavePalmWillTravel.com is at Register, as are my others. (As I recall, off the top of my head, I have a dozen or so registered names.)
Cheers!
RyuMaou
Yeah, I like your anology better. It's like taking a really big census, door-to-door.
TBH, the thing that disturbs me about it, is that it looks like the first stage of a less than professional hacker (or cracker if you prefer) attack. An inital probe of the defenses, as it were. Why would a company that does "psychographic" work need that kind of information? Unless, of course, they plan to steal usage stats from sites across the 'net.
Maybe it's just a case of secrecy working against itself by default. I don't know what they're up to, but I just automatically distrust corporations that do things like this and keep secret their intentions. Now, of course, I'm waiting for all the conspiracy theories to start working this in!
Cheers!
RyuMaou
>>uh, sorry silly rabbit, but rights are for human beings, NOT corporations ;)
>>Sorry to sound like a Katzista, but that's how I see it. Rights are for peeps, not corps.
Well, that might be how you see it, but I think a lot of judges, corporate lawyers and corporations would disagree. If I can sue a corporation as a single entity, which I can, then that entity has rights. Now, they might have more limited rights than, say, a person, but they still have rights. In fact, they have specific rights regarding privacy, especially if they're not a "public" corporation. IOW, if my company isn't traded publicly, I can hide all kinds of stuff from the general public and other companies.
I'm not a lawyer, so, no, I don't know all the details, but I've been in business long enough to see some of this in action. In fact, I've survived a bankruptcy where there were numerous lawsuits filed back and forth between individuals and corporate entities.
Sorry to ruin your world-view,
RyuMaou
BINGO! You hit the nail on the head! I'm not sure of your background or formal education level, but you obviously understand the real situation.
Thank you!
RyuMaou
I'm glad you cited a source. It's nice for a change to have someone do that.
But, perhaps you need to review *your* history. This country was founded by *businessmen* and, in part, was founded on economic freedoms. Remember the whole "taxation without representation" theme in the Declaration of Independance? Most of the Founding Fathers wanted to see a free-market economy. (At least, from what I've read of Ben Franklin's writtings. Check out "Fart Proudly", truly a masterpiece.) This isn't a political issue at all. It's an *economic* issue. The reason the corporations "run" this country is because we *pay* them to do so! Everytime we buy their goods or services, we encourage them to continue doing business the same way. How else did Microsoft get so big? We happily sent them our money for their product. Those of us that aren't happy with that are starting to use other people's products. (For instance, these days I'm using Corel's Wordperfect Suite on GNU-Linux, instead of Windows and the MS Office Suite.)
The real question is, is it so bad? A lot of people seem to think it's okay, or they wouldn't spend their money the way they do. I happen to agree with you on what's wrong, but not what to do about it. Yes, our government does not serve us anymore, but that's our fault. We need to get out and vote for a change. Get people into office that do care about what *we the people* really want. More importantly, get the people who have not done what we want back *out* of office. Then, we need to follow that up by putting our money where our mouth is, so to speak, and not supporting companies that we don't believe in anymore. And, in that regard, we do all need to educate ourselves more.
However, the Constitution is working just as our Founding Fathers intended it to work. Otherwise some fascist data-filter would have killed both our posts!
Thanks for listening,
RyuMaou
First off, if you really knew anything about Freemasonry, you'd realize that they had nothing to do with Nazi Germany. In fact, Hitler drove them underground because he was afraid of them. Now, why would he have been afraid of them if they were in on the whole thing in the first place? You might want to brush up on your history before running off at the keyboard. (And, yes, I am a Freemason, in case you were wondering. And, in fact, of German descent.)
As to the plight of the farmer in France... I can't speak to that much, but I do know about the plight of the individual farmer in the USA. They, too, are becoming corporations. Why? To survive. America has become a land of corporations, but is that so bad? If anyone really knows their history, they'll remember that many of the first settlers were English corporations! Yes, that's right, hard working "Limeys" that were looking for a new business opportunity. Most of our Founding Fathers, including those slippery Freemasons, were *businessmen*. The United States of America was founded as a country based on Freedoms, including, but not limited to: economic freedom, religious freedom, and *personal* freedom. It's why so many people left places like France, England, and even Germany to come to the "New World". Here we have a land of endless opportunity. That's why people still come from all over the world to live, grow and prosper here.
The real problem is that most of us who were born here have forgotten that we can prosper, if we work hard enough. Currently, I live in Houston, TX and I can find all sorts of ethnic diversity everywhere I look. I tend to seek it out in the form of food, since I get damn tired of McDonalds, too. (Though, not to the point of actually assaulting a franchise.) So, I like to find myself a nice Thai or Vietnamese restraunt and get lots of good, ethnic food cheaper than the average "super value meal" at McDonalds. And, almost always, it's being run by a little family that came here with next to nothing, but saved their money and worked hard and started their own business. Not a thing stops anyone here from doing the same thing. Except, of course, that they expect their government to do everything for them. Not at all what our corporate, Freemason Founding Fathers wanted this country to be like at all.
I wonder if people feel the same way in other countries? Should the French government take care of this farmer who doesn't want to "lose" his "traditions"?
Now, if you'll excuse me, I do have an actual job to do, if I want to get paid.
Thanks for listening,
RyuMaou