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What Should Happen To Expired Domains?
A good example of why expired domains should be allowed back into the pool comes in the form of another question from Jonathan Mendelson: "I was recently searching to see if mendelson.net was available, and it surprised me to see that Network Solutions was holding it. I used the whois function to find out more, and I saw that their record expired on Nov. 14, 1999. This makes it appear that they are holding the domain illegally. Are they allowed to do this, and if not, is there any action that I can take to prevent them doing so? Is there any particular reason that they might be holding it, and might there be other domains with which they are doing the same?"
Of course, an answer (in the form of another question, obviously) might be found in this bit from conf00sledBynsi who asks:
"There is a domain name I am interested in, which is not being used. It was originally registered in March of 1988, and has not been reregistered, so it has 'lapsed' for over three months, but Network Solutions has not released it for re-registration yet. After a couple of emails to Network Solutions, I received the following reply:
---------------------Does anybody know how long their 'billing cycle' is, or what their algorithm is for determining when to release a domain name? For that matter, has anybody figured out their algorithm for when, exactly, during a particular day the database is updated?"Thank you for contacting Network Solutions.
The expiration date that shows in WHOIS is not the date that a domain name becomes available to be registered by another party.
The expiration date appears in the WHOIS database so that the registrant may be able to verify how long they have locked in there domain name registration.
The registrant still has until the end of the billing cycle before the domain name is deleted, and released to be registered by the public.
We do not release the date a domain name will be deleted from our database to third parties. Please continue to check the availability of the domain name on a day to day basis. As long as it is registered our system will not allow you to register the name. Once it is deleted, the name is able to be registered on a first come first serve basis.
There are no waiting list for domain name registrations.
--------------------------
Could it be, that by arbitrarily defining their "billing cycle" NSI is able to hold on to domains that have been expired for years. I would think that your normal business cycle is measured in months so this seems rather fishy to me. Might NSI be squatting on their own domains?
Well, technically NSI is no longer a monopoly. I think they need to get their head on straight and realize that they can't do whatever they want anymore! I think too many people are frustrated with their ever cryptic policies. Now that other players can give domains to people, this would definately constitute domain hijacking!
CAD, kicked, good
How difficult would it be to replace them? The DNS database isn't complicated and shouldn't be difficult to replicate. The customer interface and billing software would be more complicated.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
As I understand it, it's not a matter of 'replacing' NSI, it's a matter of only doing business with the competing registrars as a protest to NSI's monopolistic practices.
Network Solutions is abusing their unique position of power, first by claiming to own all domain names, and second by this fiasco.
"DOJ, you've just gotten MS ordered broken up. How are you going to celebrate?"
"I'm going to Disneyland, then I'm cracking heads at Network Solutions!"
ffh.com :01-Feb-2000 :01-Feb-2000 :03-Feb-2000 :09-Feb-2000 :11-Feb-2000 :12-Feb-2000 :15-Feb-2000 :15-Feb-2000 :19-Feb-2000 :20-Feb-2000 :20-Feb-2000 :20-Feb-2000 :20-Feb-2000 :20-Feb-2000 :21-Feb-2000 :21-Feb-2000 :21-Feb-2000 :21-Feb-2000 :21-Feb-2000 :21-Feb-2000 :21-Feb-2000 :21-Feb-2000 :21-Feb-2000 :21-Feb-2000 :22-Feb-2000 :22-Feb-2000 :23-Feb-2000 :24-Feb-2000 :25-Feb-2000 :25-Feb-2000 :26-Feb-2000 :27-Feb-2000
ilt.com
bjr.com
gxm.com
fjn.com
ehk.com
fqq.com
icy.com
jmx.com
eak.com
hbw.com
hjj.com
kdj.com
mmb.com
m2g.com
kye.com
bwv.com
jbb.com
elc.com
fqs.com
haj.com
ezv.com
ghv.com
mws.com
ecm.com
fcc.com
ght.com
klp.com
iny.com
iis.com
epi.com
fbc.com
ever since they lost their monopoly, they have had the petulant attitude of a child deprived of a favorite toy. nsi needs to drop the bad attitude and focus on getting customers through superior service and cost. i suppose it can be hard to compete with the likes of joker, who offers ~$12usd registration for a year, versus $35 - $85 to nsi.
also, has anyone noticed that nsi seems to be giving themselves a rather large amount of domains? they have netsol.com, netsol.org, networksoutions.com, networksolutions.org, networksolutions.net, nsi.com, nsi.net, networksol.com, and netsolution.org - and that's just the ones i can think up off hand.
i will never give a dime to nsi.
--
Cybersqutting is usually meant to mean buying a domain that you do not intend to use, to sting money out of people who will later want that name. This is more like cyber-real-estate-speculation.
Squatting is when you make use of a property that you don't own, but that the owner isn't using. If people are going to register names, then leave them unused so they expire like this, then is it possible to start squatting in the domain?
I guess squatting involves:
An organization I work for had its web designer and maintainer recently go out of business. The defunct business arbitrarily placed the organization's website with a new third party host and vanished. After the group committed thousands of dollars to build a new website, I checked Whois to determine who was hosting their existing site. I was shocked to learn that their domain registration had expired 26 days earlier. I immediately called Network Solutions and, much to my relief, was told that there was a 30 day grace period on expirations. Without any assurance of being reimbursed, I took the responsibility to renew the registration for ten years--and was glad for the opportunity to do so!
I have my eye on one domain that expired Feb 07 2000... Its still in the NSI database...
Looks like they purge whne they feel like it...
The NSI is evil. Open Sourcing the registry is the only way to go.
Only by eliminating all money will the world be free.
Inspired by our leaders - ESR - we will conquer the world and make everyone free. Eliminating money, we will all starve. But we will be free.
Didn't a past /. post hint that Network Solutions was getting ready to auction off expired domains..
Could be they are just holding a bunch until this new "service" of theirs is ready...
bah...
While this may seem an expensive endeavor, indeed, I believe that selling these expired domains back to their original owners (or to the public thereafter, should the offer be refused) at a reducced price should raise sufficient funds for such a project.
For further humiliation, and as a warning to those who would follow in the footsteps of NSI, I also propose that sequences of genes be altered stamp all affected with the encoded phrase You have been owned by the Domain Name Liberation Front. This, of course, is purely optional and at the discretion of those who would lead this proposition to fruition.
---
seumas.com
If I wrote the rules, I would give the original owner of the domain name a reasonable fixed period of time, say, 90 days, to renew. After that, the name would go back up for grabs. Actually, that's probably more than enough time for the owner to cough up more dough.
Why not release them immediately? It's one thing for someone other than Joe Domain to snap up www.joedomainname.com immediately after Joe Domain lets his renewal slip. But a couple of months ago we had an incident...we host most of our sites with a certain hosting company who shall remain nameless. One client's domain name up and ceased to work one day. The client had paid us, we had paid the nameless hosting company...but the nameless hosting company had forgotten to pay NetSol, and this client had competitors who were dying to get their grubby little paws on his domain name. If that name had been released into the wild again right after it expired, there could have been a hell of a mess for us to clean up. So a reasonable delay, then, is good. Holding a domain name for a year or more is ridiculous. If Joe Domain hasn't renewed his name by then, NetSol oughta realize that he probably never will.
This is a Chao. A Chao says "Mu."
This may sound like lame, uninformed flame-bait, but why do we even need domain names?
What about a distributed search engine type of approach? There's got to be some way of avoiding this kind of centralization and still manage the anarchy.
Any Ideas?
http://www.masturbateforpeace.com/
*sigh*...this is just another example of nsi acting irresponsibly without regard to the public they are (should be) serving.
Back when I used them, I found that changing an IP for a name server was much harder than it should be (their systems will respond months later, sometimes never, even when simply responding that there has been an error in the 'automated' processing). Trying to find a phone number to call was quite hellish, and it took much searching through their site (cleverly designed not to let people find their number easily). Oh, yes, and it wasn't an 800 number either. Calling it, I'm immediatly put on hold for 45 minutes, only to talk to someone who claims 'I cannot help you, please call this number....'). I ask to speak to the supervisor, and here's what I find amazing -- he refuses! I ask him for his name - he refuses again, this time claiming he already told it to me!
Amazing...just...amazing....
--
--
grep "xercist"
"The expiration date appears in the WHOIS database so that the registrant may be able to verify how long they have locked in there domain name registration."
--
--
grep "xercist"
They're probably just trying to avoid ugly situations that might occur if someone misses the bills on BigAssSite.com and some squatter jumps on it faster than you can say Yet Another Precedent Setting Domain Name Related Lawsuit. Imagine if that domain that microsoft forgot to pay the bills for last christmas was snatched up by someone else. It doesn't make it right, but it could get really ugly if some high profile site let their domain slip and lost it to some idiot squatter.
Dude, shush!
Don't try to talk people out of this, I want my damned impeniterable DNA-altering friggin' nannites! ;)
---
seumas.com
When in doubt use a different register? Several of the alt's are cheaper anyway. You can't force their hand but you can ask about policies such as this before picking who to register through.
:) A good admin would update BEFORE the time limit was up anyway. The grace period would be just 'it got lost in the mail' forgiveness. The owner should be able to reregister through any of the competition also though.
I could see a well documented and short waiting period after a domain expires before it was open to the public but anything over a month would be extreme I think. If someone hasn't noticed it's down by then well then I guess their site isn't very important to them.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
Well, as the article indicates 'has elapsed for three months'. Well, as far as I understand, NSI bills in yearly increments. So, would it not be safe to conclude that the end of a billing cycle would be one year from the date that registration expired?
---
seumas.com
that shut down hotmail access for millions of people because Microsoft was late on a $35 check? Now they're apparently offering multi-year "grace periods". If anyone is good for the money, it's MS. Messed up.
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
I would definitely like to try out this scheme:
:)
1. Person A registers a Trademark "Garblefizz"
2. Person B registers garblefizz.com at NSI
3. Person A sues NSI for Trademark violation (they own the domain, right?)
4. Person A and B share the money
Anybody wants to help?
when i searched nsisucks.com on nsi.com guess what came up? .com, .net, or .org -- anyone can register them.
nsisucks.com is unavailable, but would you like to try The name(s) below. Select the ones you want and click Continue. There are no restrictions on using
mynsisucks.com
ensisucks.com
aboutnsisucks.com
nsisucksonline.com
nsisuckscentral.com
Rock 'n Roll, Not Pop 'n Soul
Rock 'n Roll, Not Pop 'n Soul
carldrawings.dk3.com
Anm
Don't you hate forgetting to log in to SlashDot? :) I am posting this, so I can better track the above message.
The thing that really bugs me is that whenever the name finally becomes available, odds are some company that specializes in grabbing domains (like greatdomains.com) will likely get it first.
I think they have arrangements with registrars like NSI such that they get the list of names that are going to be released before anybody else, and can then take all the ones they want.
The reason NSI is giving until the end of the billing cycle is so they can sell off large blocks of expired domains at once to these name-stealing services, saving a lot of hassles.
The whole first-come first-served policy is a load of crap, there are preferences being offered here...
slashdot.org cookie: anon=-1-TxAA6zKVJn Allow? (Y/N/Always/neVer)
So, out of curiosity, I take a peek around the source of this very page I'm posting a comment from, and what's this?
<IMG SRC="http://images2.slashdot.org/Slashdot/pc.gif?/ comments.pl,963044601" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=1>m ments.pl,963044601" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=1>
<IMG SRC="http://images.slashdot.org/pagecount.gif?/co
Does anyone else see anything wrong with this? I'm glad that I can use JunkBuster to filter images*.slashdot.org. I guess Rob will have to wait a bit until I start loading the banners again! Is this in the Slashcode tarball? If so, what does it do? If it isn't, why not? Could someone familiar with Slash please clarify this?
Watch me get bitchslapped...
--
This exact same thing happened to me about a month and a half ago. I wanted to get a domain that expired. I was watching it very closly, because i knew that it was going to expire in a few days. Anyway, once it did expire, I requested NSI for the domain and they said that they wait about 3 weeks before they send the person a message. After that they shut down the webpage to get the person's attention. Anyway, I waited over a month and I still couldn't get it and the guy finally re-registered...Now I have to wait another year for his domain.
However this does not fully explain the results from this question. This policy above has only happened within the last month, but as others have pointed out on the thread, there are domains expired as far back as Feb.
IANAL, but there's an interesting case here to watch for that could bring contract violation charges onto NSI. If, as suggested, they take those domains into their public auction but AFTER they changed the contract, would this not be violating that? It's understandable if you fall a day or two behind, but NSI is claiming they're months behind. If they are that far behind then they are being inefficient adn should lose their gov't contract by the same point. (And from my recent experience with other registers, the case appears isolated at NSI).
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
Alex
I've bought 50 domain names for clients before now when they KNOW they'll only use one of them for the project. The others just lapse after a couple of years. NSI have to hide the deletion date otherwise the domain hogs would run a little script to hammer WHOIS and buy anything that expires on the second it does so.
NSI are indeed very annoying and unhelpfull but the billing cycle argument holds true. I've paid bills on expired domains before they were deleted and brought them back from the dead.
If you like the idea of a dead domain then http://www.whois.net/ lets you search the database of expired domains in the manner you normally search active ones.
0daymeme.com: Great stuff.
Could it be, that by arbitrarily defining their "billing cycle" NSI is able to hold on to domains that have been expired for years.
No, it's just people writing Slashdot stories without taking 2 minutes to research the question. Why bother to do that when you can make a conspiracy out of it, eh?
The billing cycle is a year of course, as anyone who's ever registered a domain or bothered to read the payment policy should know. Duh.
The revolution will NOT be televised.
My domain name was near expiration lately, and so I went to renew it another registar (totalnic.net)
I waited, and waited. 3 weeks later my domain expired, and NSI *LOCKED THE DOMAIN*. I emailed totalnic asking why my renewal had not gone through, and I was told that NSI had not approved the move to a CORE registar yet. So, NSI has my domain on hold, and I could not get it transferred to another registar. So I paid NSI their f***ing money.
About Network Solutions... they're anything but even handed or consistant. Of course, in the past, they HAVE let expired domains go back into the public pool and be re-registered by another person. (Take "police.net"... that was a customer at an ISP I worked for that let their domain name drop.) I know of many others. I also remember years ago they're harassing us and denying us a registration for "bingo.net", even though it was not taken at all! They would not let us register it!
Anyone who has had a great number of dealing with NetSol will have some war stories. This is definately a case where I'm going to vote with my dollars. I encourage others to do the same.
You could rewrite a few magic functions in the C library (man gethostbyname should give you most of the functions you'd want to replace) and replace DNS with a protocol of your own choosing. LDAP maybe? Or some anarchistic communal scheme. Though not many people would use it at first, I have a feeling more and more people will become disenchanted with the ICANN and the current registrars. Already having a different solution in place and well tested at that point could be quite worthwhile...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I once owned a domain of a company I was once a part of. I registered it in February, 1998. Back then, you could only register it for two years for the initial signup, so it would expire February 2000.
.com, .net and .org if it doesn't play nice.
I got a notice in February that it had expired, then a final notice a few weeks later. I had no intentions of re-registering it, since it was not valuable anymore, and the company had dissolved.
Then, in mid-May, I got a letter from NSI saying that since I had not renewed the domain, it was now freely available to anyone who wanted it. If I wanted, there was an URL on the paper where I could go and directly re-register this domain, so no one else could take it.
Sure enough, the domain is available. However, I don't like the idea that someone is given notice that the domain is expiring, then a final warning a month later, and then two more months go by (a total of THREE months now) before it "expires", and then notice given that anyone can register it.
This is just begging for squatters to grab it again, with their "enticing deals" of cross advertising with VeriSign's products for businesses. I really wish that ICANN would start watching the registrars, maybe give NSI a final smack on the back of the hand, before it sends it to the corner with a loss of registration of
Dragon Magic
Human nature is the same everywhere; the modes only are different. -- Earl of Chesterfield
Is it possible that we might need actual laws regulating the behavior, rights, etc of domain name holders, registrants and registrars? As often as I hear complaints about NSI and see for myself the shoddy, greedy business practices they pursue I wonder if maybe there shouldn't be some law(s) providing a framework for how domain name and registrar conflicts should be adjudicated.
.com, .net, and .org are somewhat global in scope and that what I'm suggesting would be US-only in scope but as these are "supposed to be" US-only, applying US laws to these domains & registrars thereof only makes sense. Having the same system for non-US TLDs isn't totally out of whack.
I know that federal laws are seldom the "solution" to anything, but the existing "watchdog" group ICANN seems powerless or unwilling to force NSI to change its business practices, and the alternative, the civil court process is expensive and doesn't provide a particularly just outcome, especially in light of the way NSI continually tweaks their user agreement the way Voyager rotates sheild harmonics to their own advantage.
What I envision is a framework for domain names that spells out rights for owners, obligations for registrars, and overall rules (to combat squatting or other abuse), as well as "penalties" for violation -- which could include cash fines for registrars up to an including loss of registrar certification for repeated violation.
It would be nice to have a due process system as well, although I'm wondering if it wouldn't make sense to instead encourage adjudication of disputes through binding arbitration with perhaps an e-arbitration system that would allow written submission of arguments to an arbitrator for timely and inexpensive adjudication.
Does this solve more problems than it creates, or have I been spending too much time in good-government land lately? How the framework rules are established is entirely unstated -- since it would be federal law, I'd think that a panel of community experts could draft the initial set with debate/modification by congress. It's far from perfect, but giving so much power to NSI and then expecting market forces to straighten it all out is rather naive IMHO.
I know that
I too have had numerous problems with NSI. More than I care to mention here. I've recently started migrating all of my domains to another registrar. It turns out the process is much easier than I anticipated. I chose register.com as my new registrar because I like their management system (being able to see and configure all my domains via a web interface). I called their "transfer of registrar" 800 number at 10:00 on a week night. In two rings I got a live person on the phone. I told him what I wanted to do and he informed me that I would be incur a charge of $35, but that this would extend my domain registration by one year.
While I was on the phone, he initiated the transfer. An email was sent to the registered point of contact listed in whois. It contained a link, which I clicked on. The link brought up a transfer agreement at a form in which I typed "I agree to the transfer" and clicked submit.
Five days later, I got a notice from NSI that they had approved my transfer. A day later the domain showed up in register.com and no more NSI.
Bottom line, there are alternatives, and as consumers, we can speak with our $. It also gives me great personal pleasure to diminish NSI's revenue stream, because they have put me through hell many times in the past few years.
Matt
It looks like NSI is holding Lunix.com...
This being significant for two reasons...
Lunix is the often used mispelling for Linux... Lunix.org is the user group page for a Linux user group.
Lunix is also a Unix like system for the Commodore 64.
Now... if the author of Lunix wanted the domain Lunix.com he can't have it. Thanks to NSI.
(I rember at one point seeing a page offering the domain for sale but thats gone.. it now clames the domain is just waiting for a page to go up.. as a rule you don't see those pages becouse the author usually gets to the website pritty quickly)
Now say NSI grabbed the name of a new busness and waited for that busness to go for it's Internet home. What then?
Say a busness gose under... the domain reverts to NSI and the busness name is sold. The new owner wants his domain. But NSI won't let go.
Now on this domain...
It seems NSI has a webhosting service. Thow I've seen nothing on it byond a larg amount of websites hosted by NSI.
While it's not odd for a webhosting service to be relitively obscure. Even one by such a larg company like NSI and it's not odd to find a default page for a new website.
It is odd to find so many such pages from one source. Thies pages usually stay idle for a long time and that is odd.
Normally a person would jump into the website as soon as it's live. Often before the domain will accually resolve.
Now it seems odd that a person with the time and energy to research web hosts.. find and chouse NSIs hosting service and then not have the time to do anything with the site.
Odd but it might happen... on occasion... but this would be like... really rare...
Somehow some mystical reason... huge numbers of people research find and chouse NSI then mysticly become overloaded and can't work on the page itself.
In plain terms... NSI is hosting the site themselfs there isn't a user. It's just a placeholder so no one can have the domain.
I don't actually exist.
i've been watching a domain supposed to 'expire' a month ago and im sick of it. lets all tell icann how nsi are behaving!
get xited
I have been hosted with NSI in the past, and I can
say that I am disappointed with there conduct as a
business, and their performance as a hosting company. I would encourage people to take their business else where.
-"You'll have plenty of time to sleep when you're dead."
It was nice to have that grace period, but after 30 days or so I think that the names should be released. If the owner hasn't realized that it has been 'repossesed' in 30 days then the really don't want it that much.
The government should hand over NSI's contract to the Department of Motor Vehicles. The DMV couldn't do a worse job. After waiting an hour in line at least you get to talk to someone.
Before money there was barter...
Before that people pritty much had what they made for themselfs. Some times sharing with others.
Barter came becouse someone wanted something someone else had.
Before you can abolish money you MUST find a reasonable alternitive. (Socalism isn't a reasonable alternitive.)
For domain names a reasonable alternitive is what the domain name service was before it became a busness.
In fact I'm more than a tad pecved at the way NSI handles domain names.
A solution to Network Solutions (A solution to a solution? circles within circles... swerllying wheeee) an alternitive service...
Start the domain service from scratch... new protocal.. new software... GPL the whole mess.
Make a version of the software with the BSD liccens and had it over to the BSD people.
Convence Sun and Apple to support it (not easy) and Netscape (in browser so it dosn't need to be supported in OS).
Then do what all the the TLDs do... send postal mail to EVERY domain holder saying "get your service name for FREE.. Don't pay to protect your domain.. just get it for free..."
Then... pray... It's not as simple as I make it... It may take a small sacrafice to make it posable. Who do we place on the alter... hmmmmm
I don't actually exist.
My company owns several domains (for use as IRC vhosts), several of which are registered with NSI. We planned to move all domains that were still registered with NSI to other, cheaper, registras as soon as they expired.
:-P).
Recently one of those domains expired, but we had forgotten about it so didnt terminate it the day before the expiry. We didnt remember till a week later when I finaly recieved the Final Notice from NSI (how kind of them, one bit of paper telling us to pay before a date a week before
We thaught that they'd just delete it and we'd be able to re-reg our domain straight away... but no, they carried on holding onto it. So I tried to terminate the domain.. I got the auto replies from their system, but it was never deleted.
I am now left with one of our domains unusable, and no way to get it back. As you can imagine I am quite ****ed off with NSI over this as I'd very much like to be able to re-reg the domain.
Basicly research valid alternitives for money. In some cases money is totally inaproprate in the first place.
So we go after areas where money is totally unsuted and existing systems are better suted.
Example... Domain Name Service.. PRE NSI it workes great.
And Software... free software is preferable to commertal software.
Start with areas where matereal goods are not used. Such a value system. Your value as a person is rated by the value of your contrabution.
As this takes over it may be posable to barter credability for matereals the way actors and other well known people sell themselfs to endorce products. The rules that normally apply (The product must be worth it or you come off as a sellout) are increased by a magatude of 10.
"I drive Ford trucks..." - The author of xLifeScan.
(He drives em becouse Ford gives em to him.. in trade for his endorcment)
However for a total elimination of money or at least a reducntion by less than 75% of the population relying on it you MUST find valid alternitives to matereals and costly services. (Not all inetelctual propertys can be produced with out encuring costs or expiring matereals)
[Expering matereals... words chosen carefully... you can use and reuse many matereals... some [paper] are single use or have a limited reuse value.. thus they expire on use and incure a matereal cost]
If valid systems can be found, accepted, welcomed and addopted for ALL matereals and services then we are well on the way to abolishing money.
If addoption of such systems reached 40% we will have proven the modle. At 60% we are at general acceptence. 75% the modle has dominated.
A requirem of 1% for credits or whatever for some may be required. At such a point an unusual occuence shall happen... At that point.. for the first time in history... the only people to have money will be the poor....
This may not be posable... and if anyone wishes to undertake this goal beforward... It will not happen in your lifetime... unless your immortal... and even then... you never know...
I don't actually exist.
While I don't like NSI's policies and business practices, I have used, and continue to use NSI to register and manage my domains. Why?? They seem to be the best bet for being there 10 years from now.
The pricing for joker, gandi, etc. is attractive, but if I register for 10 years at NSI, it's $350, for joker or gandi, it's $120 (or so) $240 is a great savings, but in 5 years, how do I know that they will be in business? (Also, they are not US based companies which presents additional potential problems (such as international long distance for support, and being subject to another country's laws and regulations concerning contract and posssibly content)
NSI ain't the best, but for now, I don't have enough faith in the others.
Don't think it's so easy to 'do business with others' if you already have a domain (I have domains going back 5 years)
1) your registrar still has to pay NSI a fee.
2) they can and will refuse to acknowledge the transfer on any minor technicality. And if that technicality is an error in their customer data -- as it often is, you'll have the devil's time getting it corrected (in my experience)
3) The dirty secret of their 'auction' is that it really hides the fact that it guarantees that any NSI-registered domain is registered via NSI by the new owner.
4) NSI expressed doubts as to my 'validity' and refused to honor a transfer of one of my domains last year (I'd have been okay if my ISP had cooperated, but they seemed frightened of having to learn to learnother registrars, or registrar transfers, and actually chastised me for trying to leave NSI) So, since it was a minor domain, I let it expire, figuring I could probably pick it up via another registrar in a few weeks/months. No dice. I ended up re-registering the expired domain via NSI (with a check, hoping that I could use the correct info on the check as proof). They took my money but still refuse to correct my info (even though the e-mail address and phone number they had for me are both dead now)
"But, it is well known, what strikes the capricious mind of the poet is not always what affects the mass of readers." -
I went to NSI's website about a month ago and paid the renewal fee. I was three days late, which appears not to be a problem. The charge went through on my credit card, but the whois entry still shows it expired 8 June. Emails have gone unanswered.
I'm going to register.com. They even offer free DNS service.
God I love having alternatives to NSI.
Bitchslapped? Give Rob a bitchslap from bitchslapped.com.
Read the requirements to become a registrar. Check out II.D.1.b.ii which is:
D. General Obligations of Registrar.
1. During the Term of this Agreement:
b. Registrar shall comply, in such operations, with all ICANN-adopted Policies insofar as they:
ii. do not unreasonably restrain competition.
Looks like NSI couldn't be a registrar if they weren't already. Of course II.D.2.i has some language that is confusing to me that might allow them to.
I think most everyone who reads slashdot would be in agreement that NSI holding on to domains is a bad thing. So instead of asking what everyone thinks about this and beating a dead horse, lets offer some alternatives and solutions.
Like, a boycott of NSI. Lets do some research into other registrars, find out which are the good ones, and use them instead. Also, getting the world out about NSI and it's tactics would be a another way.
I renewed mine 3 months ago, it was paid before the expiration date. Yet whois still shows that it expired 2 months ago. I'm not sure but it appears that their not updating that information in the whois anymore. The domain still works, and my credit card was billed. So either my domain will stop working soon, or their not fully disposing of all pertinent information.
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19990801
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
Would somebody be so kind as to explain the moderation behind this? (There's nothing listed but I get a score of 0?) It wasn't intended as flamebait, wasn't a troll, wasn't redundant (at least, at the time of the posting), wasn't off-topic. It probably didn't deserve an increase in score but why wasn't it left at 1?
Somebody has abused their moderation power.
I was fairly shocked to go to the site after it had expired, and find that a company had taken the name and was squatting on it.
Struck me as an extremely slimey, underhanded thing to do. (note: this name was one that was very unique, the name of the software company, and couldn't possibly be of any use to anyone else)
I can't imagine any purpose for grabbing a domain, and sitting on it, other than to try to extort money from the previous owner if they forget to pay the bill. I'd imagine there are companies with scripts that scan the available names every few minutes, and grab any which become available.
Imagine if the whole microsoft / hotmail thing had happened now, if domains can be grabbed once they expire.
________
1995: Microsoft - "Resistance is futile"
I just wanted to let people know that if you aren't happy with your current registrar you can always go to DomainClerk</plug>. This is my company I started to provide low cost domain names using OpenSRS. And it's only $13 USD/domain/year!
Evan Klingerevan@domainclerk.com
President DomainClerk
I say we burn down their corporate HQ. They can't make money using real intellect or good services. They're the pimps of the internet.
I like the system Canada is using. If you are publishing a personal web page, your address is www.[whatever].city.province.ca.
The only way you get provincial or national domains is if you are a registered business. National domains go to businesses that are federally registered (do business in more than one province).
There can not be name collisions with this system. If a company has a federal registration, no other business can register the same name. A smart company will also trademark their name, offering further protection against infringement.
As well, owners of a national domain own all the provincial domains as well. There will never be a www.[whatever].ca and www.[whatever].bc.ca. I suspect provincial owners also own all the city domains.
The result is that for a person/company in BC: a) for the personal webpage "goatsluts," your domain will be www.goatsluts.mytown.bc.ca. b) for a business offering goatslut services as a BC-registered company, it'll be www.goatsluts.bc.ca. c) for a national goatsluts business, it'll be www.goatsluts.ca.
The only flaw in this system so far is that those people who own web pages that use a company tradename may risk losing their domain if the company registers its domain (national > provincial > city).
MY PROPOSAL:
The .com TLD goes to multinational companies, and can only be registered for their tradename and trademarks. They can not register generic domains (www.loseweight.com), only domains for products (www.slimfast.com), trademarks (www.therealthing.com) and tradenames (www.exxon.com).
The country code TLDs go to big businesses with national registration. Same rules apply as for the .com domain.
The state/province domains go to small businesses, ones that are not nationally registered. Same rules as above.
City/county-specific domains go to businesses as well. This allows franchises and such to deal with their local community.
New TLDs are created for other uses.
A .xxx/.sex domain is needed, without a doubt. It's open for businesses and people, with no rules about names: you can register phrases, words, tradenames, trademarks, what-have-you. No country/state/city codes are mandated. If you want them, you can have them (allowing www.goatsluts.mytown.bc.ca to list prices for the locals).
The .org domain goes to registered non-profits. The big user groups and so on will have to get a bit more formal. Non-profits that operate as a business (Oxfam & such) will probably also want to register their .com/.cc domain.
International non-profits get a plain .org; national/state/provincial ones will be in the appropriate form of www.goatsluts.city.state.cc.
The naming rules of the .coms applies to .orgs.
Note that a lot of community groups (ARSTechnica, PlanetNameYourGame) are profitable ventures and would be registered as .com/.cc entities. If they want to the TLD entry, they'll have to provide proof of international business registrations!
Where do personal pages fit in? As sub-domains of a country code. I suggest www.goatsluts.personal.cc. There are no naming rules: you can use tradenames, trademarks, phrases, words, whatever. And, no, companies can't shut you down for using a trademark or tradename: the "personal" subdomain makes it very clear that this is *not* a business page.
I'm not stuck on naming it "personal," but it does have to make it clear that the page isn't a business-authorized one. An internationally-recognized word would be good.
ISPs will be responsible for not allowing business to be conducted on personal pages. No ad banners, no shopping carts, no promoting one's business.
The enforcement rule: if someone wants your domain name and discovers that you're doing business, they'll report you to your ISP, and you'll lose your domain. Ergo, you *can* sneakily do business on a .personal.cc page, but you're at risk of losing it if you're successful. 'cause if you're successful, you should be a registered business (otherwise you take the far greater risk of having your ass nailed to the wall for tax evasion!)
Most registrations will be handled by the country represented by the .cc TLD, however they see fit (could be a government service; could be privatized; could be contracted to NSI, even). The international domains will be handled by NSI. The key advantage to all this is that it opens up the domain name space.
It sensibly restricts what names businesses can use, while opening up all possibilities for private users.
It eliminates camping: businesses own their trademarks/tradenames, and .personal users aren't going to cough up big bucks.
It recognizes that non-competing businesses (ie. businesses in different states/countries) may want to register the same name (and differentiates them by the .state.cc postfix).
It recognizes that big businesses own their names/marks, and that little businesses don't get to name themselves after a national/international business.
In short, it seems to work very well, and for that reason alone will probably never come to pass...
--
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
I've also had my eye on a domain for a few months that has finally lapsed. I waited and waited for the registration to drop and the domain to be open for a new registration again. After an inquiry to InterNIC I was given this information:
i s
Thank you for contacting Network Solutions, Inc.
All domain name registrations are subject to deactivation and/or deletion if payment has not been made by the invoice due date.
However, if payment is not received for the domain name after the first invoice, a second invoice would be sent to the Billing Contact. An extended 15-day grace period would also be granted to remit payment.
If payment is still not received, a 10-day Deactivation Notice would be sent to the Registrant.
Following the ten days, if we still have not received payment, the domain name would be deactivated (Pending Deletion).
Please note that a 30-day grace period extension is also available for the asking.
Domain names are deleted in a bulk. They are placed into a batch until it is full, and they are altogether deleted.
Meanwhile, if payment is received (before the domain name is cancelled), the domain would be reactivated.
The expiration date does not necessarily indicate that the domain name will become available at the date listed in WHOIS. Several circumstances associated with the domain name could extend the expiration date indefinitely, however you may continue on checking our WHOIS Database.
Please continue to check our WHOIS Database as to if and/or when the requested domain name becomes available. The current registration record can be reviewed at the URL:
http://www.networksolutions.com/cgi-bin/whois/who
If you wish to obtain the domain name registration, you should contact the domain name holder.
We look forward to providing you with continued quality service in the future.
Several circumstances associated with the domain name could extend the expiration date indefinitely? Does this mean that Network Solutions thinks it can keep domains for however long it pleases?
This will have a few cool effects:
Failing that, how about someone collect a summary of peoples' experiences trying to change registrars?
If I believed it would work, I'd change all of my domains away from NSI, but I don't want to risk losing any of them, so I'm not gonna be the guinea pig...
Until NSI's nogoodishness impacts their bottom line, they won't change a thing. I've never heard of an internet boycott before, but I don't see why one couldn't be started in this case.
As shown in a previous message, "icy.hot" is one of the domain names that have expired back in February, yet is still unavailable for re-registration. Here are the revelant parts of the WHOIS information:
Domain Name: ICY.COM
Record last updated on 08-Mar-1999.
Record expires on 15-Feb-2000.
Record created on 14-Feb-1996.
Database last updated on 7-Jul-2000 16:34:07 EDT.
Go to Network Solution's Home Page and try to register "icy.com". You can't. Netsol says "Sorry, icy.com is not available.". Fair enough. So, I've decided that on behalf of the owner of icy.com, I'm going to pay his bill. So I go to the NSI Online Payment System. I enter "icy.com" as the domain I want to make a payment on. Here's the response I get:
Related information could not be retrieved for the domain. This could be because:
1.The top level domain is not a com, net, or org.
2.An invoice number could not be created for this domain.
3. The invoice number given does not match with that in the database.
Well, it isn't #1, and it isn't #2. It certainly isn't #3 because I did a lookup by the domain name, not the invoice number. And if I enter a domain name that completely doesn't exist, I get a different error:
Related information could not be retrieved for the domain. This could be because:
1.The domain information has not yet been processed or updated into the database.
2.You entered an incorrect domain name.
So, the domain name can't be registered. Okay. The domain name can't be renewed either. (Netsol *might* try to claim that they can do it with an invoice number -- but COME ON. Why would it be blocked in their automated payment system? I'm sure they'll have a good lie for this one.)
Network Solutions is making up the rules as they go along, and they need to have their feet held to the fire and be accountable for their actions. Someone ought to sue them over this.
why not the US Domain Registry? NSI keeps your domain, so does USDR. The difference? USDR is free, and has humans behind it to help prevent problematic squatting. I'm probably going to take a stewardship on ursine.portland.or.us before long.
Help us build a better map!
I think the domain names that expire should be thrown back out into the pool of availible names. However this is should be only after a grace period of sorts, maybe 3 months in which time the original owners have a chance to reconsider, continuation of ownership of the domain(s). After that they should be availible as if they were brand spanking new.
I recently tried transferring three domains from NSI to joker.com. Two of them went through fine, the third failed for some unknown reason (I couldn't see any differences among them - I had registered all three of them at the same time years ago).
Joker's customer support seemed even worse than NSI's. I tried e-mailing them to ask for an explanation, and to see if they could try again. No response. When a transfer fails (they do warn you about this), they keep your money for no services performed.
After I transferred the third domain to another registrar (the tranfer succeeded on the first try, even though the domain had actually become past due at NSI by this time), I decided to look into OpenSRS (basically becoming my own registrar - or more correctly, a reseller for OpenSRS).
The process involves installing some Perl GCI scripts, registering thirty-five names in their test environment, and paying $250 for twenty-five domain-years worth of registrations (more than I wanted, but I now volunteer to transfer friends' domains at cost). I don't have great CGI skills, but bascially, I just had to copy the scripts to the CGI directory (since you need a static IP to access the OpenSRS servers, I used my machine at work - a stock Red Hat install with ordinary Apache, and didn't need to do anything unusual). I went through the rest of the process without much trouble, and now I have started to move all of the domains I have any influence over under my direct control. I recommend this to anyone who wants never to have to wait and worry about faxing transfer forms off to other countries or even giving their credit card number to yet one more possible point of compromise. Good luck.
... and NSI Claims...
Merely because "NSI Claims" won't, I think, hold much legal ground. If a domain has expired, the legal transaction which established ownership has as well. As NSI has not embarked on a new legal transaction, it cannot be theirs.
And bye the bye, it's painfully obvious NSI is abusing their position, and that the net now needs to put NSI in its place - offline!
RD
radsoft.net
There is a company in California with a company name and domain name that is the name of a piece of software that my company designs. The CEO asked me to register the domain since he tried to browse to it and it didn't come up. Well, this was true but the whois information says:
Record expires on 07-Jun-2000.
Record created on 06-Jun-1995.
Database last updated on 8-Jul-2000 18:43:43 EDT.
I tried to register it on the 8th of June thinking that an expiration date meant that the registration expires on that day, but no. So I called Network Solutions.
Apparantly the expiration date means nothing. It's not accurate and is designed to make it so that technical people that know to check whois information for expiration dates don't have "an unfair advantage over non-technical people in the battle to get the rights to a domain." This is honestly what they told me.
Personally I'm sick and tired of their shit. I think it's high time we do something about it. Now, I'm not exactly a major activist or anything, but I'm going to write a letter to them listing domains that are not released and the names of people that are complaining. I hope I don't crash my ISPs mail server with a /. effect, but if you want me to add your name and/or a domain that isn't released e-mail me. Hell, I'm doing this for work anyway, so why not get a group effort behind it.
Dissenter
Dissenter
"There is no knowledge that is not power."
I'm not sure if anyone else has posted this yet, but there is a somewhat helpful service: www.unclaimeddomains.com. I believe that it posts you a daily/weekly email of domains that have expired and are now available.
I have not tried the service, but some users have complained that 'expired' domains, are not being released by NSI. Kinda kills off the value of the service, eh?
Anyway, I figuure that someone might find it useful - I picked up the URL from thelist at evolt.org.
'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
The bad news is that first Net Sol sends you a threatening 'late reminder' bill, addressed to the billing contact. Not much real threat there. Then a couple weeks later they send a threatening bill to the "CEO/President" of the registrant, announcing that the billing contact, who is named, has failed in renewing the domain, and that you better get your ass in gear and send 'em their 35 bucks or you're sold down the river. Now, this even happens after, in response to the first billing, you e-mailed them and - wow! - actually got an answer back that sure things were cool. They're just gonna try to bill your boss anyhow and get your ass in the fire.
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
I have had nothing but good experiences with Dotster. I have transfered all (4) of my domain names from NSI and Register.com to Dotster and have never had even the slightest problem. When I send an email to customer support I get a reply within 24 hours that answers my question, not some automated response. When I call them on the phone I get a human being to talk to. I think the key to getting rid of Network Solutions is for people to stop the useless complaining and transfer all existing domains to other registrars and register all future domain names with other registrars. Who cares which registrar you use, just don't use NSI. It has been my experience (at least with Dotster) that all of my transfers were carefully checked and rechecked and verified and reverified by a human before they submitted the transfer request to the registry. I didn't see how anything could have gone wrong. There should also be no worries about a registrar going out of business. You are not going to lose your domain name if this happens. The domain name will go into escrow and will be given to a registrar that is still in business. You can then always transfer out if you do not like that registrar. All this talk and no walk accomplishes nothing. Get your domain names out from NSI and never look back. Also, dont use Domain name buyers guide, or whatever they call themselves, their ratings are haywire and make no sense whatsoever. If you want to check out other registrars, go to ICANNs web site and see the list of current registrars. Then you can make your own decision as to which on to use.
Dude...the guy never re registered. It's not like the check got lost in the mail dolt. What do you think this whole article was about?
This is nothing new from what I can remember dealing with Network Solutions over the past couple of years.Now I don't want to defend NetSol...they suck I know.But from as long as I can remember in dealing with Domain registration in can be 3-5 months..maybe a little longer before they delete an "expired" domain from their database.I could never figure out exactly what their cycle was...it didn't seem to be the same all the time.But in all the cases I've dealt with this was a good thing..the people that owned the domains had forgot to reregister but their domains still functioned after the expiration and if they caught it before it was purged from the database they could go ahead and pay up.So while NetSol are a bunch of greedy bastards they have been doing this for a while and I don't see anything really sinister about it.It does suck if your wanting one that has expired but is not available yet but it is good for the current owner of the domain.
notimeforsigs
On a side note, I would like to comment on the fact that NSI now seams to be offering domain names for free for 90 days. The deal is, you register a domain name and you get to use it for free for 90 days. At the end of 90 days, the registrant can either pay to continue using the domain, or they can lose it.
.. well ... As it stands now:
.. my question once again is:
I read through NSI's FAQ on the subject, but I didn't see where they said what really happens to domain names that aren't paid for after 90 days. I am seriously concerned that they might not be imediately released as they should be. If you look at all of the 'interesting' things that NSI has been doing and tie them all together
1. Joe Schmoe can register a domain name for 90 days for free. Considering how cheap most people are, guess who's going to take a lot of business away from the other registrars. The fact that someone feels they need to 'try out' a domain name for 90 days hints that these people aren't serious about owning the domain name and, more likely than not, will let it 'expire' after the 90 days. This will also be a very popular with domain speculators who won't pay for the domain if it doesn't sell within the 90 days.
2. NetSol doesn't say exactly what happens to those free domains that exire after 90 days.
3. NetSol doesn't say exactly how long names are expired before they are released back to the domain pool.
4. NetSol has a new 'service'where they have decided to auction off expired domains to the highest bidder rather than release them back into the pool like they should.
Does everyone see where I am going with this? This isn't exactly normal merchandise now. Either you need/want the name or you don't. You'll have to pay for it sooner or later and if you can't cough up $12 for it sonner, then you obviously really don't need/want it. I forsee many, many people registering a free domain just because they can and have no intention of really keeping it. Then when the names expire and aren't paid for, NSI puts them on the auction block to 'recoup their costs' and to do whatever else with the extra money. It all sounds a little too well timed and convenient if you ask me. They are just flat out abusing their past, total monopoly and current, practical monopoly. This is just another example of why I support a floating DNS-root, but that's another rant for another time.
So
1. What exactly are they doing?
2. Better yet, what is ICANN going to do about it, if anything?
My answers to these questions are:
1. I think I spelled it out prettly clearly
2. Nothing, except maybe take a cut behind their closed doors.
----- I was not elected to watch my IP packets fragment and collide while you discuss this routing policy in a committe
Sad to say .. it could realisticly go either way. It just all boils down to they don't know what the hell they are doing.
----- I was not elected to watch my IP packets fragment and collide while you discuss this routing policy in a committe
NSI has claimed that they own domains registered under them. Yet in a court of law (and I believe NSI also claimed this), domains are >NOTowned.
Quite hypocritical! Am I right, am I missing something, or am I just confused?
- Maine Coon
Hunt your preferred prey at Aliens vs Predator MUD. Join the war at avpmud.com port 4000
They are accustomed to being a monopoly serving the public interest.
If you want to check out some of this rediculous "domain name real estate speculation" check out Ebay and search "domain name." I'm sure some of the prices are bogus bids, but none the less, I have seen many a domain name sell for $5000 and higher. What can be done to stop this rediculous practice of buying up huge blocks of domain names and selling them for much higher than normal prices? These are mostly new domains, not established business domains, wich could have some capital value.
--I assume full responsibility for my actions, except the ones that are someone else's fault.
Why the hell is the dns system privatized anyway? I mean, the internet is at *least* part of national infrastructure, and more logical international. Why doesn't some UN department run this? Why is the internet, almost a public service, in the hands of a couple corporations in the first place? Shouldn't NATIONS be the ones voting for TLDs for their country, etc?
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
A judge ruled that domain names aren't property and therefore...
I don't mean to be flippant, but a judge with jurisdiction over what area? If a French company says its my property when I buy it from them, can a judge over a completely different part of the US have any weight on the contract?