I didn't say anything like that, and you're just projecting your hate for someone else on me. Did someone burn you at some point? Anyway, let me try to break it down for you.
This guy is not interested in "becoming a ham." You saw 9/11 happen and felt a need to contribute to the situation. You saw the other hams doing their thing and wanted to join them. So you did. However, this guy is different. He does not want to contribute like you did. This guy DOES NOT CARE about ham radio. All he wants is to replace his cellphone with something that "works better". Did you not read his post?
Anyway, so pretend he decides to go along with it. He gets a license and spends a few thousand getting a mobile rig, starts trying to make "phone calls" and all of a sudden he's got people listening to his "phone calls" and maybe some talk over the top of him and oh my gods what kind of stupidity is this? So he yells at these other people to go away, since this is his private conversation and they shouldn't be listening, which is of course missing the point to you or I who expects a radio to be a radio, but to him it's a big expensive cellphone that doesn't work the way he expects. So after a few months of this he gives up and sells the equipment and tells all of his friends (and their friends and so on...) that ham radio is an expensive waste of time full of jerks who listen to your phone calls. This is of course false and seems comically implausible to your or I, but he doesn't understand that!
This sort of scenario is not at all uncommon, and every time it happens it is the fault of the hams who refused to step in and provide guidance or worse, hams who misrepresented what the service really is - under the misguided idea that we are somehow obligated to grow our ranks at any cost. Not everyone is a "potential new ham". You have to evaluate THEIR wants and needs and expectations and give them enough information to properly decide for themselves whether or not they should continue.
All I am trying to say is that if you are expecting ham radio to directly replace some other service, and nothing more, you are going to waste everyone's time and a lot of your money. Ham radio is a hobby and not an appliance. I would rather you not have a license than have an expired license and a misguided hate of ham radio. I fail to understand how that makes me an "old curmudgeon" who should commit suicide. It does not help anyone for someone to have a license and no understanding of what that license means.
Let's slow down here. I think you misunderstand what I am saying.
My picture of the situation is that the OP is NOT a licensed ham and is asking if he should get a license purely to use a ham radio as a more different cellphone. He is not interested in ham radio at all, he merely wants to replace his existing insufficient cellphone service.
My point is supposed to be that ham radio is a diverse hobby and not a direct replacement for any one other service, and expecting it to work that way is going to lead to frustration. I am not trying to play the code-speed-license-date-penis-size game.
I understand that the government only cares about cheap emergency backups, but I disagree with that line of thinking.
There's a thin distinction between "primary purpose" and "sole purpose", and I don't think we should get there. We just make it easier for us to get screwed later when the need for the "primary purpose" can be discounted. Besides, if the rules were structured the way you say they are, with our primary purpose being emergency communications, then the paragraph would have been structured with items b through e on a sublevel beneath item a. However, in the rules as they stand, those items are on the same level as item a, which to me says they are on equal footing.
In any event, the idea I originally wanted to express is that ham radio is not a direct replacement for any one other service, and getting a ham radio license only as a replacement for some other service without being interested in the hobby at all is just going to lead to frustration.
I can agree with that. We had a lot of visitors at our Field Day site. I was lucky enough to have an opening to Europe on PSK31 when a bunch of cub scouts came through. It took them awhile to wrap their heads around the idea of there being no internet or phone service involved. The number of people who understand the tech behind the devices they use daily is dangerously small.
I hope you get out of the hills and get good results; If you aren't showing your work, you're not working!
No, he didn't pass the same test I did. They discontinued the test I passed because it was "too hard" and "no longer relevant".
That aside, nowhere does it say that he has a license. He doesn't want to use it just for an emergency either, he wants to use it as a more reliable cellphone in non-emergency situations. That's why he's asking about duplex sat service.
No, of course not. That would be stupid. But that doesn't mean I should have to misrepresent everything I do as being under the auspices of emergency preparation.
If Emergency Communications is the prime reason, then we *will* lose our bandwidth to those same entities whenever there isn't an emergency, for the same reasons.
Consider APRS messages. "Hey FCC, AT&T/Verizon here, why are these hams competing with me by sending text messages on emergency frequencies? They are an emergency service, and there's not an emergency, so why are they allowed to do this?"
That's why we have to have five reasons, so as to not have all our eggs in one basket.
There's a comma there, not a period. They are clarifying the "voluntary noncommercial" part of item A. Item A is not any more or less important than any of the other items.
If the ARS is redefined such that emergency communications becomes our primary or main focus, then the other items can AND WILL be eliminated as extraneous. We must not fall into this trap!
Field Day is about operating under minimal conditions. This can be useful in an emergency but that is not its SOLE or MAIN focus. It is not a training exercise for any branch of the military or law enforcement.
97.1 Basis and purpose.- The rules and regulations in this Part are designed to provide an amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles: (a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications. (b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art. (c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communications and technical phases of the art. (d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts. (e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill.
Nowhere does it say the primary or majority function of the ARS is emergency communications. Only one of these principles mentions the word "emergency" and it is not the "primary".
Ham radio is a HOBBY for people interested in communicating by radio, and the technical development of same.
It is not a replacement for your cell phone. It is not a replacement for ship-to-shore-email services. It is not a replacement for wi-fi. We are not the Police/Fire Reserve. We are not the DHS Auxiliary. We are not the NOAA Field Agents. We are not an emergency communications service. (We -can- do this stuff as a matter of Last Resort, "When All Else Fails", but that is not our primary purpose! Many people forget this!)
If you are not interested in communication by radio or the technical development involved in doing so, DO NOT waste your time with ham radio. You will only disappoint yourself.
The Saturn was Von Braun's design. The LVDC program that guided the Saturn was a port of a FORTRAN program that implemented a set of control laws and arithmetic written by the Germans. The rest of the program was mostly US design. The Germans had relatively little to do with the CSM and LM. Their job was to get things into space and to a lesser extent down again, but dealing with it once it was in space was beyond their original research. We paid for the entirety of their work in those areas (life support, stellar navigation, long-distance communications, etc) while they were living here and holding American citizenship, so at that point they were more German-born Americans than Germans.
There were also more than a few Germans performing various operational roles. Gunter Wendt, for example. Their contribution should not be discounted either, but it's hard to quantify.
Well, Motorola is doing it, but they are doing it because Verizon wants them to do it. Motorola doesn't lose anything if you mod your phone, they still sold a phone. Verizon is the only one who stands to lose anything, so Verizon must be the one behind this.
No, the landing stage DID an in-flight restart. That's what I just said.
First DPS burn was the Descent Orbit Insertion (DOI) burn. Second DPS burn was the landing burn. After landing was staging, and then the APS burn.
The DPS operation is what is being described. Quoth TFA: "VTVL launch vehicles conserve fuel by shutting down their engines during the coast and re-entry phase of a flight." The LM did a burn to DOI and then did another burn to land. TFA says nothing about using the same engine for takeoff and landing, TFA claims this was the first restart period.
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Depends, are they interested in trying to learn new things? Did you bother to ask?
If they aren't, then ham radio is not for them.
If they are, then by all means, encourage them to the best of your ability.
I know that. I'm the one arguing that the ARS is not _primarily_ an emergency service.
Please read starting at post #33015698 - you're late to the party and there's no need to rehash what was already posted.
I didn't say anything like that, and you're just projecting your hate for someone else on me. Did someone burn you at some point? Anyway, let me try to break it down for you.
This guy is not interested in "becoming a ham." You saw 9/11 happen and felt a need to contribute to the situation. You saw the other hams doing their thing and wanted to join them. So you did. However, this guy is different. He does not want to contribute like you did. This guy DOES NOT CARE about ham radio. All he wants is to replace his cellphone with something that "works better". Did you not read his post?
Anyway, so pretend he decides to go along with it. He gets a license and spends a few thousand getting a mobile rig, starts trying to make "phone calls" and all of a sudden he's got people listening to his "phone calls" and maybe some talk over the top of him and oh my gods what kind of stupidity is this? So he yells at these other people to go away, since this is his private conversation and they shouldn't be listening, which is of course missing the point to you or I who expects a radio to be a radio, but to him it's a big expensive cellphone that doesn't work the way he expects. So after a few months of this he gives up and sells the equipment and tells all of his friends (and their friends and so on...) that ham radio is an expensive waste of time full of jerks who listen to your phone calls. This is of course false and seems comically implausible to your or I, but he doesn't understand that!
This sort of scenario is not at all uncommon, and every time it happens it is the fault of the hams who refused to step in and provide guidance or worse, hams who misrepresented what the service really is - under the misguided idea that we are somehow obligated to grow our ranks at any cost. Not everyone is a "potential new ham". You have to evaluate THEIR wants and needs and expectations and give them enough information to properly decide for themselves whether or not they should continue.
All I am trying to say is that if you are expecting ham radio to directly replace some other service, and nothing more, you are going to waste everyone's time and a lot of your money. Ham radio is a hobby and not an appliance. I would rather you not have a license than have an expired license and a misguided hate of ham radio. I fail to understand how that makes me an "old curmudgeon" who should commit suicide. It does not help anyone for someone to have a license and no understanding of what that license means.
... and in my opinion, it applies to the preceding public-service aspect only, otherwise they would have put it above the others in hierarchy.
We are going to run in a loop if this keeps up. I will probably stop here before this gets too much more convoluted.
Take that however you will.
This is like saying that a bowl of fruit containing an apple is an apple because it has an apple in it.
Please read post #33016314 and its parents so we can avoid duplicating misunderstanding.
Let's slow down here. I think you misunderstand what I am saying.
My picture of the situation is that the OP is NOT a licensed ham and is asking if he should get a license purely to use a ham radio as a more different cellphone.
He is not interested in ham radio at all, he merely wants to replace his existing insufficient cellphone service.
My point is supposed to be that ham radio is a diverse hobby and not a direct replacement for any one other service, and expecting it to work that way is going to lead to frustration.
I am not trying to play the code-speed-license-date-penis-size game.
I understand that the government only cares about cheap emergency backups, but I disagree with that line of thinking.
There's a thin distinction between "primary purpose" and "sole purpose", and I don't think we should get there. We just make it easier for us to get screwed later when the need for the "primary purpose" can be discounted.
Besides, if the rules were structured the way you say they are, with our primary purpose being emergency communications, then the paragraph would have been structured with items b through e on a sublevel beneath item a.
However, in the rules as they stand, those items are on the same level as item a, which to me says they are on equal footing.
In any event, the idea I originally wanted to express is that ham radio is not a direct replacement for any one other service, and getting a ham radio license only as a replacement for some other service without being interested in the hobby at all is just going to lead to frustration.
You aren't alone. There's a few kids here who are on the right track too. This guy is just trolling. Don't give him any attention.
I can agree with that. We had a lot of visitors at our Field Day site. I was lucky enough to have an opening to Europe on PSK31 when a bunch of cub scouts came through. It took them awhile to wrap their heads around the idea of there being no internet or phone service involved. The number of people who understand the tech behind the devices they use daily is dangerously small.
I hope you get out of the hills and get good results; If you aren't showing your work, you're not working!
Please kindly troll elsewhere.
No, he didn't pass the same test I did. They discontinued the test I passed because it was "too hard" and "no longer relevant".
That aside, nowhere does it say that he has a license. He doesn't want to use it just for an emergency either, he wants to use it as a more reliable cellphone in non-emergency situations.
That's why he's asking about duplex sat service.
No, of course not. That would be stupid. But that doesn't mean I should have to misrepresent everything I do as being under the auspices of emergency preparation.
If Emergency Communications is the prime reason, then we *will* lose our bandwidth to those same entities whenever there isn't an emergency, for the same reasons.
Consider APRS messages.
"Hey FCC, AT&T/Verizon here, why are these hams competing with me by sending text messages on emergency frequencies? They are an emergency service, and there's not an emergency, so why are they allowed to do this?"
That's why we have to have five reasons, so as to not have all our eggs in one basket.
There's a comma there, not a period. They are clarifying the "voluntary noncommercial" part of item A.
Item A is not any more or less important than any of the other items.
If the ARS is redefined such that emergency communications becomes our primary or main focus, then the other items can AND WILL be eliminated as extraneous.
We must not fall into this trap!
Field Day is about operating under minimal conditions. This can be useful in an emergency but that is not its SOLE or MAIN focus. It is not a training exercise for any branch of the military or law enforcement.
97.1 Basis and purpose.-
The rules and regulations in this Part are designed to provide an amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles:
(a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications.
(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art.
(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communications and technical phases of the art.
(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.
(e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill.
Nowhere does it say the primary or majority function of the ARS is emergency communications.
Only one of these principles mentions the word "emergency" and it is not the "primary".
Ham radio is a HOBBY for people interested in communicating by radio, and the technical development of same.
It is not a replacement for your cell phone. It is not a replacement for ship-to-shore-email services. It is not a replacement for wi-fi.
We are not the Police/Fire Reserve. We are not the DHS Auxiliary. We are not the NOAA Field Agents. We are not an emergency communications service.
(We -can- do this stuff as a matter of Last Resort, "When All Else Fails", but that is not our primary purpose! Many people forget this!)
If you are not interested in communication by radio or the technical development involved in doing so, DO NOT waste your time with ham radio.
You will only disappoint yourself.
Germans made the booster, but we made the rest.
The Saturn was Von Braun's design. The LVDC program that guided the Saturn was a port of a FORTRAN program that implemented a set of control laws and arithmetic written by the Germans. The rest of the program was mostly US design. The Germans had relatively little to do with the CSM and LM. Their job was to get things into space and to a lesser extent down again, but dealing with it once it was in space was beyond their original research. We paid for the entirety of their work in those areas (life support, stellar navigation, long-distance communications, etc) while they were living here and holding American citizenship, so at that point they were more German-born Americans than Germans.
There were also more than a few Germans performing various operational roles. Gunter Wendt, for example. Their contribution should not be discounted either, but it's hard to quantify.
Point taken, I didn't think of that.
Well, Motorola is doing it, but they are doing it because Verizon wants them to do it. Motorola doesn't lose anything if you mod your phone, they still sold a phone. Verizon is the only one who stands to lose anything, so Verizon must be the one behind this.
This is not the FCC's doing, this is Verizon's. The FCC has no laws against having an open phone. Please put the blame where it belongs!
It's reality that most of us are sad.
No, the landing stage DID an in-flight restart. That's what I just said.
First DPS burn was the Descent Orbit Insertion (DOI) burn.
Second DPS burn was the landing burn.
After landing was staging, and then the APS burn.
The DPS operation is what is being described.
Quoth TFA: "VTVL launch vehicles conserve fuel by shutting down their engines during the coast and re-entry phase of a flight."
The LM did a burn to DOI and then did another burn to land.
TFA says nothing about using the same engine for takeoff and landing, TFA claims this was the first restart period.
Correct, but still wrong. The LM DPS restarted during the missions. There was one burn for DOI and the second was the landing burn.