Re:He's flaming me, that's what my other post was.
on
October Gnome Released
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· Score: 1
He told "you" to go away and you denied it was you, but agreed with the sentiment of the post. So I wonder what in those "press releases" that was so upsetting?
Here I thought some kind of cooperation would evolve thanks to the work of Havoc Pennington and people like Christian Tibirna, Kurt Granroth and Stefan Westerfeld (at least the last two have appeared level headed and made attempts before).
I wonder what caused this particular outburst.
/mill
Re:The Gnome model is based on Miguels Ego
on
KDE Looks Ahead
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· Score: 1
http://www.gnome.org/mailing-lists/archives/gnome- components-list/1999-September/0027.shtm l
"This is my personal view on KOM/OpenParts: I myself find it very complicated and too complex to understand."
"l) Easy to use APIs Bad APi -> nobody learns it -> no code -> Does not matter how powerful the API is since no code uses it:-) This is OpenSource. We can not force people to learn OpenParts and for understandable reasons almost nobody did."
I think it is kinda funny after all the criticisms Miguel and GNOME in general have got (from actual KDE developers instead of the advokiddies (great term by C. Browne btw) here on slashdot) for writing ORBit and Bonobo.
I don't know if the performace issues would be solved by using ORBit instead of Mico, but those who actually are solving them (the KDE developers) seem to think it wouldn't. Who would know better?
I for one would like be able to run something like a GIMP server on a nearby Onyx and have the image embedded in a document, but for 99% of the desktop users out there this is probably not possible so a fast local-only solutions is the way to go.
Not that I would let many cycles be used by office applications when I need all of them for gcc/Emacs:-).
Why would we want to have more "webdesigners" using Linux? Heck, why would we want more "webdesigners" at all. Let them make their crap on Win* with Flash, MSHTML and what not.
The real question is why you wrote this piece. First you create a problem (i.e. MacMillan doesn't get their due respect) and then use this red herring to tread down the paths of GNOME vs. KDE, Red Hat vs. 'someone' and "geeks" vs. mainstream.
You accumulated the necessary hits for your employer - mission accomplished. Just like Jesse Berst.
I have no problem with people that aren't "superior techno-geek" (in fact I don't understand why anyone would label themselves geek or nerd), but I do have a problem with the Jesse Berst wannabees i.e. anything to generate hits.
According to the article MacMillan is not respected by the "geeks" (as evidenced by his search here at Slashdot i.e. they/we don't care). According to the article MacMillan is not concerned by this. So if neither the "geeks" nor MacMillan care about this whole issue then why is it even brought up?
I don't see why anyone should respect or disrespect MacMillan. What have they done to earn the respect of the Linux community? Sell Linux? Should I respect the local supermarket for selling Coca Cola? Should we show our respect to Cheapbytes too? To all the magazines that bundle CDs with Linux on it?
Interesting that he has to bring up how users are allegedly abandoning Red Hat, mainly because of the KDE/GNOME "issue", all the time too.
I think this "critique" is mis-directed. AFAIK MacMillan never asked for any respect themselves. It was Evan Leibovitch that, once again, stirred things up to accumulate hits for ZDNet.
Portraying RedHat as the big bad company which its users are abandoning ever faster suits his goals ("some sneered that Red Hat should have received most of the prizes" some who?).
Linux's own personal Jesse Berst accomplished what he aimed for anyway. Hundreds of comments on Slashdot and lots of hits at ZDNet.
/mill - who wonders if he should pay respect to his local supermarket for carrying Coca Cola
It _is_ a crutch for sloppy content providers aka "webdesigners".
The HTML 3.2 spec was a braindead way to make the common use of HTML standard i.e. lets pollute HTML with the crap Netscape and Microsoft came up with. Then W3C had to remove the same crap in HTML 4.0 *sigh*.
If you had a clue what HTML is (or at least tried to be until "webdesigners" had any influence) it wouldn't come as a surprise different user agents present information in different ways. Or maybe you can explain to a blind user why they should care about your colors or typefaces?
If "webdesigners" didn't misuse HTML they wouldn't have to spend weeks of headache time and the rest of us wouldn't have to suffer from their work.
Umm, he said FreeBSD without qualifying that statement. He who responded ironically implied he had been enlightened by this unqualified claim and would therefore install it everywhere.
In short the article didn't clear up anything. Still the claims of BSD superiority and still no proof of it.
I think you just answered the question why people don't trust you or in my case generally feel contempt.
Journalists are supposed to prod, dig and keep that blowtorch close to the butts of politicians and others in power. When you are the ones in power you get in line and march with the rest.
Who said I am fascinated with C? It is YOU that are fanatical about C++. I don't go around claiming that C++ sucks or that Qt is an abomination.
If you stopped taking shots at gtk (you even complain about the looks even though you can change it) in every damn post you wouldn't come through as a walking flame bait.
I call it flexible. I am not forced to use C++'s object model. Too bad you don't understand C and have to hold that against the language itself. I find Haskell far more readable than C++ so I guess I should run around screaming how C++ sucks then. Bringing it up whenever possible (relevant or not).
Lay down, close your eyes, take a deep breath and say after me. "C++ is not the end and be all of programming languages. C++ is not equivalent with OOP. gtk+ is not an instance of evil."
*sigh*
/mill - who at the moment is enjoying libsigc++ and gtk--
Uh, and why wouldn't an application of XML be a good tool to define GUIs?
Instead of trying to make a GUI that caters to both newbies and hackers why not seperate everything from the back end. Define the GUI with a XML application and write the glue code.
..and what is this "mandatory weapon" used for? To make it worthless for those that would supposedly have the greatest benefits of something like HTML. Indeed it is a weapon.
I suggest you take a look at PostScript. You get all the power you need to specify exactly how things should be rendered (read visualized).
"Waah! I can't define presentation on the pixel level. Update the standard to meet the needs of us professional webdesigners!"
Good. Then one doesn't have to waste time finding out how to navigate this week.
/mill
Re:No, C++ appeals to people who understand OO
on
GCC 2.95 Released
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· Score: 1
Indeed we should use "Hello world!" to compare languages and toolkits. It is the ultimate test and since we all are working on making the next great "Hello world!" program it is the one and only test case.
print "Hello world!";
Perl rules.
/mill
Re:Huray! Now, more people use C++!!
on
GCC 2.95 Released
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· Score: 1
Slashdot Mirror
M-x w3
/mill
dpkg -l | wc -l
o m.*"
/mill
428
Downloading 30 packages instead of one huge is only a problem for those who don't understand how to use the tools available to them.
man ncftpget
Example:
> ncftpget "ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/doc/lpf/programming.freed
programming.freedom.1.gz: 13.64 kB 199.71 kB/s
programming.freedom.10.gz: 5.32 kB 109.12 kB/s
programming.freedom.11.gz: 4.65 kB 129.30 kB/s
programming.freedom.2.gz: 10.02 kB 58.00 kB/s
programming.freedom.3.gz: 10.19 kB 136.75 kB/s
programming.freedom.4.gz: 10.70 kB 161.11 kB/s
programming.freedom.5.gz: 11.69 kB 201.46 kB/s
programming.freedom.6.gz: 12.22 kB 160.36 kB/s
programming.freedom.7.gz: 9.79 kB 63.93 kB/s
programming.freedom.8.gz: 14.75 kB 172.54 kB/s
Now go practice.
He told "you" to go away and you denied it was you, but agreed with the sentiment of the post. So I wonder what in those "press releases" that was so upsetting?
/mill
Here I thought some kind of cooperation would evolve thanks to the work of Havoc Pennington and people like Christian Tibirna, Kurt Granroth and Stefan Westerfeld (at least the last two have appeared level headed and made attempts before).
I wonder what caused this particular outburst.
http://www.gnome.org/mailing-lists/archives/gnome- components-list/1999-September/0027.shtm l
3 8307236&w=2
:-) This is OpenSource. We can not force people to learn OpenParts and for understandable reasons almost nobody did."
:-).
/mill
"This is my personal view on KOM/OpenParts: I myself find it very complicated and too complex to understand."
http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-core-devel&m=938708
"l) Easy to use APIs
Bad APi -> nobody learns it -> no code -> Does not matter how powerful the API is since no code uses it
I think it is kinda funny after all the criticisms Miguel and GNOME in general have got (from actual KDE developers instead of the advokiddies (great term by C. Browne btw) here on slashdot) for writing ORBit and Bonobo.
I don't know if the performace issues would be solved by using ORBit instead of Mico, but those who actually are solving them (the KDE developers) seem to think it wouldn't. Who would know better?
I for one would like be able to run something like a GIMP server on a nearby Onyx and have the image embedded in a document, but for 99% of the desktop users out there this is probably not possible so a fast local-only solutions is the way to go.
Not that I would let many cycles be used by office applications when I need all of them for gcc/Emacs
Why would we want to have more "webdesigners" using Linux? Heck, why would we want more "webdesigners" at all. Let them make their crap on Win* with Flash, MSHTML and what not.
/mill
The real question is why you wrote this piece. First you create a problem (i.e. MacMillan doesn't get their due respect) and then use this red herring to tread down the paths of GNOME vs. KDE, Red Hat vs. 'someone' and "geeks" vs. mainstream.
/mill
You accumulated the necessary hits for your employer - mission accomplished. Just like Jesse Berst.
I have no problem with people that aren't "superior techno-geek" (in fact I don't understand why anyone would label themselves geek or nerd), but I do have a problem with the Jesse Berst wannabees i.e. anything to generate hits.
/mill
According to the article MacMillan is not respected by the "geeks" (as evidenced by his search here at Slashdot i.e. they/we don't care). According to the article MacMillan is not concerned by this. So if neither the "geeks" nor MacMillan care about this whole issue then why is it even brought up?
I don't see why anyone should respect or disrespect MacMillan. What have they done to earn the respect of the Linux community? Sell Linux? Should I respect the local supermarket for selling Coca Cola? Should we show our respect to Cheapbytes too? To all the magazines that bundle CDs with Linux on it?
Interesting that he has to bring up how users are allegedly abandoning Red Hat, mainly because of the KDE/GNOME "issue", all the time too.
Agree on all points.
/mill - who wonders if he should pay respect to his local supermarket for carrying Coca Cola
I think this "critique" is mis-directed. AFAIK MacMillan never asked for any respect themselves. It was Evan Leibovitch that, once again, stirred things up to accumulate hits for ZDNet.
Portraying RedHat as the big bad company which its users are abandoning ever faster suits his goals ("some sneered that Red Hat should have received most of the prizes" some who?).
Linux's own personal Jesse Berst accomplished what he aimed for anyway. Hundreds of comments on Slashdot and lots of hits at ZDNet.
It _is_ a crutch for sloppy content providers aka "webdesigners".
/mill
The HTML 3.2 spec was a braindead way to make the common use of HTML standard i.e. lets pollute HTML with the crap Netscape and Microsoft came up with. Then W3C had to remove the same crap in HTML 4.0 *sigh*.
If you had a clue what HTML is (or at least tried to be until "webdesigners" had any influence) it wouldn't come as a surprise different user agents present information in different ways. Or maybe you can explain to a blind user why they should care about your colors or typefaces?
If "webdesigners" didn't misuse HTML they wouldn't have to spend weeks of headache time and the rest of us wouldn't have to suffer from their work.
Repeat after me - HTML is NOT a layout language.
Umm, he said FreeBSD without qualifying that statement. He who responded ironically implied he had been enlightened by this unqualified claim and would therefore install it everywhere.
/mill
In short the article didn't clear up anything. Still the claims of BSD superiority and still no proof of it.
Why use CGI when you have mod_php?
/mill
http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/
/mill
Raph Levien has written a viewer - gill (depends on the gnome canvas).
I think you just answered the question why people don't trust you or in my case generally feel contempt.
/mill
Journalists are supposed to prod, dig and keep that blowtorch close to the butts of politicians and others in power. When you are the ones in power you get in line and march with the rest.
Pitiful IMO.
Who said I am fascinated with C? It is YOU that are fanatical about C++. I don't go around claiming that C++ sucks or that Qt is an abomination.
/mill - ending his participation in this thread
If you stopped taking shots at gtk (you even complain about the looks even though you can change it) in every damn post you wouldn't come through as a walking flame bait.
..and Qt is just a lame wrapper around Xlib. Using moc hacks and QTL to accomplish things that gtk-- does with standard C++.
/mill
Ahh, the joys of FUD. If I could only be so lame to hide my identity too.
If you prefer C++ use Gtk-- instead.
/mill
I call it flexible. I am not forced to use C++'s object model. Too bad you don't understand C and have to hold that against the language itself. I find Haskell far more readable than C++ so I guess I should run around screaming how C++ sucks then. Bringing it up whenever possible (relevant or not).
*sigh*
Lay down, close your eyes, take a deep breath and say after me. "C++ is not the end and be all of programming languages. C++ is not equivalent with OOP. gtk+ is not an instance of evil."
/mill - who at the moment is enjoying libsigc++ and gtk--
*sigh*
I don't understand people's fascination with slamming a particular language. Like calling programming in language X insane (ring a bell?).
/mill
Uh, and why wouldn't an application of XML be a good tool to define GUIs?
/mill
Instead of trying to make a GUI that caters to both newbies and hackers why not seperate everything from the back end. Define the GUI with a XML application and write the glue code.
Isn't it obvios that most of these post are red herrings?
/.
/mill
People are simultaneously having flame wars on languages, bindings, licenses, and environments as a whole.
C++ is better than C and vice versa. GNOME has binding for X and KDE doesn't. KDE isn't really Free and GNOME is. GNOME sucks. KDE sucks.
...
The last two articles on GNOME and KDE have reached a new low. Sad even for
Gtk-- incomplete? What is missing?
/mill
IMHO the people claiming that Qt is far superior to gtk+ is just showing their bias towards C++ and haven't used Gtk--.
..and what is this "mandatory weapon" used for? To make it worthless for those that would supposedly have the greatest benefits of something like HTML. Indeed it is a weapon.
/mill
I suggest you take a look at PostScript. You get all the power you need to specify exactly how things should be rendered (read visualized).
"Waah! I can't define presentation on the pixel level. Update the standard to meet the needs of us professional webdesigners!"
*sigh*
Good. Then one doesn't have to waste time finding out how to navigate this week.
/mill
Indeed we should use "Hello world!" to compare languages and toolkits. It is the ultimate test and since we all are working on making the next great "Hello world!" program it is the one and only test case.
/mill
print "Hello world!";
Perl rules.
Gtk-- is the C++ wrapper for gtk+.
/mill