"I have an entire functioning, blossoming eco-system"
Yes YOU have it, but WE don't, and THAT is the failure.
You CAN'T take your "functioning, blossoming eco-system" and share it with anyone that isn't running the same version of Windows as you. THAT is the loss.
Yeah because applications out there are magic, they read the release notes for each java release and they automatically use the correct command line switches for each of the different versions of java.
"upgrading to the latest version of your development environment, literally on the day of release, seems to be rather poor practice."
It's THE ONLY REASONABLE practice if you wish to actually find the bugs in your system.
If you were talking about "production environment" I would agree with you.
If the software on your development system is not working right, the only one impacted is YOU.
The sooner you install that new software and fire it up, the sooner you can submit your bug reports and the sooner they will be fixed.
And if it's your own code that is having a problem you would also rather know about this sooner than later.
If your development environment won't handle multiple JDKs then you need a new development environment. You NEED to be testing with ALL of the shipping and supported JDKs if you actually have a real product that real people use.
Most of us developers have been testing with the JDK7 beta builds for quite some time now, so your "poor practice" remark seems even more odd.
For one, I have to question anyone who criticizes what basically amounts to a long-term research project in how to design an operating system. Of course it's going to take too long and of course nobody from the mainstream is interested enough to help.
For another it should really be pointed out that SELinux and FUSE are really just bolted-on, inferior implementations of things that are key embedded concepts in the hurd. You probably would not have these things on your linux system today if it had not been for the hurd.
- Conflation of development time with product quality: "Minix just got paging working last year" Last I heard, quality products take MORE time to develop, not less.
- Complaints of "inefficiency" when the target platform has 10X the necessary compute power for the task at hand.
- Complaints about "long development time" when compared to the 20+ years that it has took for BSD to achieve commercial success in the market as OSX.
If any of you people would actually stop to read the hurd design docs you would realize that it has already had influence on your desktop. FUSE and SELinux are bolted-on implementations of concepts that were first fleshed out and implemented in the hurd.
you make this assertion that it is "just a microkernel" and then you proceed to tear that concept apart.
But your failure is the the assumption that "it's just a microkernel", it's clear you have read none of the hurd design docs and your assumption is faulty.
You say "the fact that they were stinking slow" and that just sounds funny given today's modern virus-ridden desktops that spend 99+% of their CPU cycles in idle more.
"If this is the case then try and ask the community for help, cap in hand with humility."
Given the total ignorance that the internet community has for the hurd it is probably better that the development is left to the few who are willing to put in the time and effort to understand the problem correctly so that they can make meaningful contributions.
The Hurd is radically different platform for application and OS development. Linux is no more than another POSIX implementation and the concepts are well known to all so it is easier to get contributions from the mainstream community.
Every product I've ever worked on is built with a shell script
There is really no other way to make everything happen
Small products might get away with make or ant or whatever but real products are made from a variety of projects and shell scripts are the only good way to glue them all together.
"This doesn't save you the time of shopping, as you still have to select what you want"
Huh? Do you actually grocery shop? Do you really understand where they put everything? Let's say you are looking for beans. There are beans in 5 different aisles in the store, are you going to pick the right aisle the first time?
"risk having your ice cream sit on the outside step melting"
Well clearly you haven't used one of these services either, because they don't deliver frozen goods.
"It can't be much cheaper, as most grocery stores already run incredibly thin margins"
Well it IS cheaper for many items, so what does that tell you? Their margin on some items is indeed low, but on specialty items, spices and such it is really quite high.
"And with Whole Foods and Trader Joes every other block"
Umm I live in the most densely populated urban area in the whole country and I still have to either drive or take the bus to the nearest Trader Joes or Whole Foods.
Slashdot Mirror
"I have an entire functioning, blossoming eco-system"
Yes YOU have it, but WE don't, and THAT is the failure.
You CAN'T take your "functioning, blossoming eco-system" and share it with anyone that isn't running the same version of Windows as you. THAT is the loss.
Keep driving the old clunker
Creating more prosperity and a bigger tax base WILL lower the tuition.
"bringing mass manufacturing back to the United States, but it is gone for good."
Do you study history AT ALL? Do you see the trend in the dollar's value? Do I need to continue?
Better yet, why not visit an American car dealership and examine the merchandise.
Yeah because applications out there are magic, they read the release notes for each java release and they automatically use the correct command line switches for each of the different versions of java.
"upgrading to the latest version of your development environment, literally on the day of release, seems to be rather poor practice."
It's THE ONLY REASONABLE practice if you wish to actually find the bugs in your system.
If you were talking about "production environment" I would agree with you.
If the software on your development system is not working right, the only one impacted is YOU.
The sooner you install that new software and fire it up, the sooner you can submit your bug reports and the sooner they will be fixed.
And if it's your own code that is having a problem you would also rather know about this sooner than later.
If your development environment won't handle multiple JDKs then you need a new development environment. You NEED to be testing with ALL of the shipping and supported JDKs if you actually have a real product that real people use.
Most of us developers have been testing with the JDK7 beta builds for quite some time now, so your "poor practice" remark seems even more odd.
Yeah because the homeowners can breach those cooling pipes and nothing bad will happen, really.
For one, I have to question anyone who criticizes what basically amounts to a long-term research project in how to design an operating system. Of course it's going to take too long and of course nobody from the mainstream is interested enough to help.
For another it should really be pointed out that SELinux and FUSE are really just bolted-on, inferior implementations of things that are key embedded concepts in the hurd. You probably would not have these things on your linux system today if it had not been for the hurd.
What does javascript performance have to do with operating system overhead?
The modern desktop computer spends far less than 1% of its cycles executing kernel code. My argument stands.
I have never seen such ignorant arguments:
- Conflation of development time with product quality: "Minix just got paging working last year" Last I heard, quality products take MORE time to develop, not less.
- Complaints of "inefficiency" when the target platform has 10X the necessary compute power for the task at hand.
- Complaints about "long development time" when compared to the 20+ years that it has took for BSD to achieve commercial success in the market as OSX.
If any of you people would actually stop to read the hurd design docs you would realize that it has already had influence on your desktop. FUSE and SELinux are bolted-on implementations of concepts that were first fleshed out and implemented in the hurd.
"Just because it's a microkernel?"
you make this assertion that it is "just a microkernel" and then you proceed to tear that concept apart.
But your failure is the the assumption that "it's just a microkernel", it's clear you have read none of the hurd design docs and your assumption is faulty.
You say "the fact that they were stinking slow" and that just sounds funny given today's modern virus-ridden desktops that spend 99+% of their CPU cycles in idle more.
"If this is the case then try and ask the community for help, cap in hand with humility."
Given the total ignorance that the internet community has for the hurd it is probably better that the development is left to the few who are willing to put in the time and effort to understand the problem correctly so that they can make meaningful contributions.
The Hurd is radically different platform for application and OS development. Linux is no more than another POSIX implementation and the concepts are well known to all so it is easier to get contributions from the mainstream community.
I think you have problems with the definition of the word "evict":
"It may then reenter the main archive whenever it is ready to get released with the next release."
Your argument made sense 15 years ago, but today our desktop systems are 2.x GHz behemoths that spend 99% of their life in idle cycles.
For those too lazy to use a search engine:
http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/community/weblogs/ArneBab/technical-advantages-of-the-hurd.html
"What am I missing"
How about the fact that many many residents of Southern NH travel to Massachusetts to earn their living because of the lack of JOBS in New Hampshire.
You would be singing a decidedly different tune about NH if it did not have the rich and prosperous state of Massachusetts as its best neighbor.
Why not look at other states that have policies like NH but DON'T live next to a rich neighbor?
Why they don't want to live in the clothing, maybe they know something you don't.
"require that any patent agreement entered into by an Android licensee with parties like Microsoft"
Bizarre way of thinking...
The only possible outcome for google in your scenario is that people will not bother to sign contracts with them.
Microsoft is at least claiming some sort of legal reason to restrain their customers, this... not so much.
"Would you support him, or crap all over him?"
Can't I just IGNORE HIM??? Why do you present this FALSE DICHOTOMY???
"being the first one to patent specific ideas"
Unless you have something specific in mind, this is nothing more than a useless STRAW MAN ARGUMENT.
Please come back when you learn how to express yourself without falling into the most obvious logical fallacies.
Every product I've ever worked on is built with a shell script
There is really no other way to make everything happen
Small products might get away with make or ant or whatever but real products are made from a variety of projects and shell scripts are the only good way to glue them all together.
Microsoft is copying Apple again and getting into the retail market with their own products.
If Nokia's phone is successful, they are simply doing the heavy lifting for Microsoft's own product entry.
They'll be just another in the long list of companies that Microsoft has trampled in their mad rush for supremacy.
"This doesn't save you the time of shopping, as you still have to select what you want"
Huh? Do you actually grocery shop? Do you really understand where they put everything? Let's say you are looking for beans. There are beans in 5 different aisles in the store, are you going to pick the right aisle the first time?
"risk having your ice cream sit on the outside step melting"
Well clearly you haven't used one of these services either, because they don't deliver frozen goods.
"It can't be much cheaper, as most grocery stores already run incredibly thin margins"
Well it IS cheaper for many items, so what does that tell you? Their margin on some items is indeed low, but on specialty items, spices and such it is really quite high.
"And with Whole Foods and Trader Joes every other block"
Umm I live in the most densely populated urban area in the whole country and I still have to either drive or take the bus to the nearest Trader Joes or Whole Foods.
"a practical device it does not appear to be."
A practical device is PRECISELY what it is.
It is designed for embedded systems and low-cost distributed networks.
Tell me what is your definition of the word "practical"?
And this matters how exactly? Please be specific.
25% vs 7%
Yes because lord only knows that you can't get by without that extra 17% of CPU
Personally I key in all my text from the front panel in ASCII because I don't like the overhead from the keyboard driver.