There's far more to the issue than religion. But that's not really relevant here. The problem is that someone was targeted for a political contribution. It could be a progressive cause, could be a conservative cause, could be something else. I prefer a strong boundary between personal life and work life, they should cross paths as little as possible. You ought to be able to leave work when you leave work.
The uphill battle is in justifying why he wouldn't act on his beliefs in that position. Let's stop kidding around about this, there's no way any other CEO would be given as much credit as you're giving Eich.
There is no battle to be had. His performance as CEO should be judged on what he did as CEO. He shouldn't be taken out by a character assassination over something he did years prior. If anything, the furor should have been pointed atthe board that brought him in. He was already vetted. Mozilla should have a company-wide vote if they want their workers to have a say in the selection process. This was an attack by a special interest to take someone out in a way that would be newsworthy. It had nothing to do with Eich's ability to do the job.
If the workers are against it, they can donate to their cause or volunteer.
I just love your suggestion that personal wealth should be a factor in politics.
So volunteering is out then?
Take me, for example: I heard about Eich's promotion to CEO after he pulled that stunt and I uninstalled Firefox. His actions lost Firefox a user. I wasn't arm-twisted into it, I heard what he did, and I reacted accordingly.
That's funny. #uninstallfirefox was a backlash against his removal. There was far more noise generated by those angry over his removal yet Mozilla ignored that. Now look at their market presence. This was done by a vocal minority and it has cost Mozilla significantly. Firefox may not even be a thing in the not so distant future.
Your rationale swings both ways, incidentally. Those that supported Eich could have spoken up. The reality is that he was simply outnumbered. The irony of that in this context is downright amazing.
Conservatives generally don't speak up, and I'm not sure why that is. Perhaps they were too busy doing their jobs. This is a common thing in politics. The right goes to work during the day, the left goes to protest. It's difficult to judge numbers because of this. Regardless, Mozilla has lost a lot of market presence and I'm sure the backlash against Eich's removal is a significant part of it. So who is outnumbered now?
This whole thing is a good reason why people are anti-SJW. The SJW crowd took down a CEO and in the process, destroyed the business. Like I said, if the roles were reversed, I doubt you'd be in favor of what happened. Progress isn't coming out of the closet to stuff someone else into it.
That had nothing to do with his role as CEO. If the workers are against it, they can donate to their cause or volunteer. Of course in your mind, they could then be fired. You would never stand for this behavior if the sides were reversed.
Eich's opinion was irrelevant for the position he was in. He's a person, he's entitled to his beliefs. There's no evidence that he brought that into the workplace, and it's disgusting that others would.
As for who won, how is Mozilla doing today? Not very well.
I seem to recall that the donor list to the PAC could not be disclosed legally and taking action against an employee for such donations was in fact illegal in California. So yes, there was a special protection.
IMO, there was more outrage over what happened to Eich than there was in support of the social justice crowd. Mozilla surrendered to the vocal minority. I believe part of their decline has been due to distrust. As you said, Mozilla thinks that it's part of a social movement. For many, that means they can't be trusted. Considering that browsers see everything we do online, having a malicious organization behind the browser is far too risky.
I don't like this crossing of social issues with business, it's not going to lead to a happy place. Mozilla, above most any other org, should dedicate itself to being neutral to allow for an open discussion of ideas. It's such a fail.
Democracy only works if people are allowed to have an opinion, speak freely, and not fear losing their job because of a donation to a cause that even Obama supported at the time.
It's definitely a pop-corn moment. Firefox is losing ground big time, it's the perfect time for something new. Having Eich at the helm just makes it so much more interesting.
I'm a little curious why we're not seeing this on many of the news oriented tech sites. Bias?
The more bizarre ones are things like prescription drugs. Hey doc, can I get some of what that happy bouncing bubble on TV is taking? It seems odd to me that the ads are directed at patients who can't purchase them directly. I know doc, you went through many years of med school and continuing education and all that, but the TV said this drug could fix everything! It's so f'd up.
I never even knew youtube had those 5 second can't skip ads until I watched a youtube clip on Android. If impressions are all it takes to sell stuff, that's pretty damning of the people in this supposed information age.
The whole ad funded anything model doesn't make sense. Does anyone watch the stupid ads before youtube clips? Does anyone even see them? Why do companies pay to force these ads in front of people who don't want to see them? I've never bought anything based on a youtube ad. How much less would products and services cost if the companies weren't wasting so much on advertising?
No, it isn't. As the AC who also replied said, tech employers are sharing the data on their costs relative to the plans. They're not creating a windfall for themselves, they're getting crushed by rising rates. As I said, the costs of healthcare are skyrocketing which causes the plan premiums to skyrocket, which causes employers to pick plans with high deductibles or catastrophic coverage only. Where is the money going? It's going to pay the subsidies and to cover the costs of care for those covered under Medicare.
You may be in a local market that's less affected, but I don't think that's the norm. We get a similar plan as last year for 2016, maybe you have a surprise coming for 2017 just as we did.
Regardless, if the AHA actually worked.. we'd be able to grab a cafeteria plan. I explored that option for this year, I may have saved some small amount if not for the fact that the network is so absurdly small that it's effectively useless.
I want what we had before. We were supposed to be able to keep our plans. Passing the buck and blaming that on the employer is horse shit. It was a foreseeable consequence that should have been addressed. PERIOD.
I mean, think about the biggest thing Obama "rammed" through during his presidency... Obamacare... and now tell me how your life is now ruined because of it...
Thousands of people who also work for my employer are no longer going to have a choice of PPO plans next year. We get a disaster plan with sky high deductables and a health savings account that only works for the young and healthy. I expect this will trickle through tech if it hasn't already unless we elect someone that will do something about the failings of the AHA. This year, we have higher deductables, and higher max-out-of-pocket limits. The costs at health care providers has also gone way up for many services. A thirty dollar injection last year is now billed for a hundred and thirty this year. It's obscene. The AHA has obliterated health coverage for many in the middle class. These plans even cost more out of our paychecks, where the hell are the savings that the President promised? Anyone who still supports the AHA is batshit insane.
We ride around in metal cages with flammable gasoline and electric wiring on roads that may be wet or even ice covered, all throughout populated areas.
The blame is with Google on that one. They provided the carriers a way to have their own update process. That should never have been allowed for the Nexus product line.
Nexus 6 here too, and still no update. Fuck AT&T. I'm half tempted to dump DirecTV just because AT&T now owns it.
Can't agree. I want the state to deal with bigger things. Defend the state's right to decide how our drivers licenses are done. Residents of the granite state shouldn't need a passport to fly from one state to another, but we will if the feds have their way or unless our weak governor decides we should conform to the federal Real ID standards. We should do neither, and stand with the other states that are also not in compliance. We shouldn't need a passport to go to our neighbor to the north either, but I don't see what the state can do there.
Another big one? Stop the TSA from groping people at MHT and do something to prohibit the naked body scanners. This is something on a lot of people's minds. It hurts our state because many people don't want to travel for their jobs because they don't want to deal with the feds at our airports. I understand this, because I'm in that group.
NH has awful Internet access. Fairpoint taking over for Verizon has been a complete disaster. The PUC needs to be disbanded and the state should work to find ways to bring NH into the present, if not the future. Like every other state, we want high tech jobs but much of NH, including its biggest cities, are a wasteland of slow connections and unreliable service. I care about this far more than barber shop licenses or real estate licenses.
Repeal the concealed permit requirement. It makes zero sense that I can open carry without a permit but I need a permit if I want to put a jacket on. The permit is also "shall issue" which makes it even more ridiculous. There is no justifiable reason why the police could refuse a permit application, so what the heck is the point?
The concealed carry is a 2nd amendment issue. The TSA is a 4th amendment issue. Internet access is a 1st amendment issue. These are things our state should be tackling. The Free Staters could spend decades more playing small ball, it won't help the people in any discernible way. There are plenty of issues that would have a significant positive impact that I think we could work on right now.
The United States was founded by poorly equipped colonists going against the mightiest empire of the time. Yes, if Mexicans want a better life, they ought to do something about their country. And yes, the US should get serious about the border thereby cutting off the flow of drugs that fund the narcos.
The state would require the at-fault party to have auto insurance from then on. State law mandates the minimum coverages that the policy would have to have.
I've never heard of this being a problem since most people insure their vehicle since they're either leasing or have a loan on it, the bank insists on insurance. People tend to keep it after the loan is paid off since insurance policies are really cheap here. Insurance has "uninsured motorist" protection in case the other party is at fault and can't pay.
Would it surprise you, that car insurance is not required. Or wearing seatbelts in NH?
Not so much since I live in New Hampshire. I'm thinking about the bigger picture. Our state legislature can only accomplish so much in a year. The barber shop license thing is not something that most residents in the state would consider a priority.
Marijuana is something that's on the minds of the people. We did pass a medicinal use law. I don't believe it's a good thing for most people either, this is one of the big things that I disagree with libertarians on.
No helmet laws for motorcyclists or bicyclists over 18.
No permit or license required to open carry. Concealed carry is easy to get as the law gives nearly no ability for the police to refuse to grant it. The concealed carry law itself was nearly repealed not too long ago because it's mostly pointless.
The alternative would be to promote change in your own locality. Look at the situation in Mexico. If all the effort people put into sneaking into the US were put into reforming Mexico, they could probably eliminate many of the reasons that cause them to leave. New Hampshire already has a problem with mass migration from Massachusetts. People vote themselves all sorts of things in MA and then retreat to NH when the cost of living gets too high. Then they start voting for the same type of stuff here in NH. It's insane.
Yea, they're great. They're protesting stupid things like why a barber needs a license to open a shop. That's totally going to revolutionize the government here. So far, they're a machine that only emits noise and doesn't do anything that's actually useful.
He's probably bowing out at a good time. I just got his "Effective Modern C++" book and while I haven't read it yet, scanning the contents it looks to be more of an introduction to what's new rather than an analysis of a list of gotchas like his earlier C++ and STL books. C++ has made some impressive leaps forward. He may have been in danger of running out of material if he stayed in it.
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There's far more to the issue than religion. But that's not really relevant here. The problem is that someone was targeted for a political contribution. It could be a progressive cause, could be a conservative cause, could be something else. I prefer a strong boundary between personal life and work life, they should cross paths as little as possible. You ought to be able to leave work when you leave work.
The uphill battle is in justifying why he wouldn't act on his beliefs in that position. Let's stop kidding around about this, there's no way any other CEO would be given as much credit as you're giving Eich.
There is no battle to be had. His performance as CEO should be judged on what he did as CEO. He shouldn't be taken out by a character assassination over something he did years prior. If anything, the furor should have been pointed atthe board that brought him in. He was already vetted. Mozilla should have a company-wide vote if they want their workers to have a say in the selection process. This was an attack by a special interest to take someone out in a way that would be newsworthy. It had nothing to do with Eich's ability to do the job.
If the workers are against it, they can donate to their cause or volunteer.
I just love your suggestion that personal wealth should be a factor in politics.
So volunteering is out then?
Take me, for example: I heard about Eich's promotion to CEO after he pulled that stunt and I uninstalled Firefox. His actions lost Firefox a user. I wasn't arm-twisted into it, I heard what he did, and I reacted accordingly.
That's funny. #uninstallfirefox was a backlash against his removal. There was far more noise generated by those angry over his removal yet Mozilla ignored that. Now look at their market presence. This was done by a vocal minority and it has cost Mozilla significantly. Firefox may not even be a thing in the not so distant future.
Your rationale swings both ways, incidentally. Those that supported Eich could have spoken up. The reality is that he was simply outnumbered. The irony of that in this context is downright amazing.
Conservatives generally don't speak up, and I'm not sure why that is. Perhaps they were too busy doing their jobs. This is a common thing in politics. The right goes to work during the day, the left goes to protest. It's difficult to judge numbers because of this. Regardless, Mozilla has lost a lot of market presence and I'm sure the backlash against Eich's removal is a significant part of it. So who is outnumbered now?
This whole thing is a good reason why people are anti-SJW. The SJW crowd took down a CEO and in the process, destroyed the business. Like I said, if the roles were reversed, I doubt you'd be in favor of what happened. Progress isn't coming out of the closet to stuff someone else into it.
That had nothing to do with his role as CEO. If the workers are against it, they can donate to their cause or volunteer. Of course in your mind, they could then be fired. You would never stand for this behavior if the sides were reversed.
Eich's opinion was irrelevant for the position he was in. He's a person, he's entitled to his beliefs. There's no evidence that he brought that into the workplace, and it's disgusting that others would.
As for who won, how is Mozilla doing today? Not very well.
I seem to recall that the donor list to the PAC could not be disclosed legally and taking action against an employee for such donations was in fact illegal in California. So yes, there was a special protection.
IMO, there was more outrage over what happened to Eich than there was in support of the social justice crowd. Mozilla surrendered to the vocal minority. I believe part of their decline has been due to distrust. As you said, Mozilla thinks that it's part of a social movement. For many, that means they can't be trusted. Considering that browsers see everything we do online, having a malicious organization behind the browser is far too risky.
I don't like this crossing of social issues with business, it's not going to lead to a happy place. Mozilla, above most any other org, should dedicate itself to being neutral to allow for an open discussion of ideas. It's such a fail.
Democracy only works if people are allowed to have an opinion, speak freely, and not fear losing their job because of a donation to a cause that even Obama supported at the time.
It's definitely a pop-corn moment. Firefox is losing ground big time, it's the perfect time for something new. Having Eich at the helm just makes it so much more interesting.
I'm a little curious why we're not seeing this on many of the news oriented tech sites. Bias?
The more bizarre ones are things like prescription drugs. Hey doc, can I get some of what that happy bouncing bubble on TV is taking? It seems odd to me that the ads are directed at patients who can't purchase them directly. I know doc, you went through many years of med school and continuing education and all that, but the TV said this drug could fix everything! It's so f'd up.
I never even knew youtube had those 5 second can't skip ads until I watched a youtube clip on Android. If impressions are all it takes to sell stuff, that's pretty damning of the people in this supposed information age.
The whole ad funded anything model doesn't make sense. Does anyone watch the stupid ads before youtube clips? Does anyone even see them? Why do companies pay to force these ads in front of people who don't want to see them? I've never bought anything based on a youtube ad. How much less would products and services cost if the companies weren't wasting so much on advertising?
A new browser is coming to protect us from ad tracking and the like..
https://brave.com/
No, it isn't. As the AC who also replied said, tech employers are sharing the data on their costs relative to the plans. They're not creating a windfall for themselves, they're getting crushed by rising rates. As I said, the costs of healthcare are skyrocketing which causes the plan premiums to skyrocket, which causes employers to pick plans with high deductibles or catastrophic coverage only. Where is the money going? It's going to pay the subsidies and to cover the costs of care for those covered under Medicare.
You may be in a local market that's less affected, but I don't think that's the norm. We get a similar plan as last year for 2016, maybe you have a surprise coming for 2017 just as we did.
Regardless, if the AHA actually worked.. we'd be able to grab a cafeteria plan. I explored that option for this year, I may have saved some small amount if not for the fact that the network is so absurdly small that it's effectively useless.
I want what we had before. We were supposed to be able to keep our plans. Passing the buck and blaming that on the employer is horse shit. It was a foreseeable consequence that should have been addressed. PERIOD.
I mean, think about the biggest thing Obama "rammed" through during his presidency... Obamacare... and now tell me how your life is now ruined because of it...
Thousands of people who also work for my employer are no longer going to have a choice of PPO plans next year. We get a disaster plan with sky high deductables and a health savings account that only works for the young and healthy. I expect this will trickle through tech if it hasn't already unless we elect someone that will do something about the failings of the AHA. This year, we have higher deductables, and higher max-out-of-pocket limits. The costs at health care providers has also gone way up for many services. A thirty dollar injection last year is now billed for a hundred and thirty this year. It's obscene. The AHA has obliterated health coverage for many in the middle class. These plans even cost more out of our paychecks, where the hell are the savings that the President promised? Anyone who still supports the AHA is batshit insane.
We ride around in metal cages with flammable gasoline and electric wiring on roads that may be wet or even ice covered, all throughout populated areas.
Except if you're Hillary and part of the government you don't like wants your emails from the time you spent as secretary of state.
The blame is with Google on that one. They provided the carriers a way to have their own update process. That should never have been allowed for the Nexus product line.
Nexus 6 here too, and still no update. Fuck AT&T. I'm half tempted to dump DirecTV just because AT&T now owns it.
Can't agree. I want the state to deal with bigger things. Defend the state's right to decide how our drivers licenses are done. Residents of the granite state shouldn't need a passport to fly from one state to another, but we will if the feds have their way or unless our weak governor decides we should conform to the federal Real ID standards. We should do neither, and stand with the other states that are also not in compliance. We shouldn't need a passport to go to our neighbor to the north either, but I don't see what the state can do there.
Another big one? Stop the TSA from groping people at MHT and do something to prohibit the naked body scanners. This is something on a lot of people's minds. It hurts our state because many people don't want to travel for their jobs because they don't want to deal with the feds at our airports. I understand this, because I'm in that group.
NH has awful Internet access. Fairpoint taking over for Verizon has been a complete disaster. The PUC needs to be disbanded and the state should work to find ways to bring NH into the present, if not the future. Like every other state, we want high tech jobs but much of NH, including its biggest cities, are a wasteland of slow connections and unreliable service. I care about this far more than barber shop licenses or real estate licenses.
Repeal the concealed permit requirement. It makes zero sense that I can open carry without a permit but I need a permit if I want to put a jacket on. The permit is also "shall issue" which makes it even more ridiculous. There is no justifiable reason why the police could refuse a permit application, so what the heck is the point?
The concealed carry is a 2nd amendment issue. The TSA is a 4th amendment issue. Internet access is a 1st amendment issue. These are things our state should be tackling. The Free Staters could spend decades more playing small ball, it won't help the people in any discernible way. There are plenty of issues that would have a significant positive impact that I think we could work on right now.
The United States was founded by poorly equipped colonists going against the mightiest empire of the time. Yes, if Mexicans want a better life, they ought to do something about their country. And yes, the US should get serious about the border thereby cutting off the flow of drugs that fund the narcos.
The state would require the at-fault party to have auto insurance from then on. State law mandates the minimum coverages that the policy would have to have.
I've never heard of this being a problem since most people insure their vehicle since they're either leasing or have a loan on it, the bank insists on insurance. People tend to keep it after the loan is paid off since insurance policies are really cheap here. Insurance has "uninsured motorist" protection in case the other party is at fault and can't pay.
Would it surprise you, that car insurance is not required. Or wearing seatbelts in NH?
Not so much since I live in New Hampshire. I'm thinking about the bigger picture. Our state legislature can only accomplish so much in a year. The barber shop license thing is not something that most residents in the state would consider a priority.
Marijuana is something that's on the minds of the people. We did pass a medicinal use law. I don't believe it's a good thing for most people either, this is one of the big things that I disagree with libertarians on.
Liquor stores on the highway.
No helmet laws for motorcyclists or bicyclists over 18.
No permit or license required to open carry. Concealed carry is easy to get as the law gives nearly no ability for the police to refuse to grant it. The concealed carry law itself was nearly repealed not too long ago because it's mostly pointless.
The alternative would be to promote change in your own locality. Look at the situation in Mexico. If all the effort people put into sneaking into the US were put into reforming Mexico, they could probably eliminate many of the reasons that cause them to leave. New Hampshire already has a problem with mass migration from Massachusetts. People vote themselves all sorts of things in MA and then retreat to NH when the cost of living gets too high. Then they start voting for the same type of stuff here in NH. It's insane.
Yea, they're great. They're protesting stupid things like why a barber needs a license to open a shop. That's totally going to revolutionize the government here. So far, they're a machine that only emits noise and doesn't do anything that's actually useful.
He's probably bowing out at a good time. I just got his "Effective Modern C++" book and while I haven't read it yet, scanning the contents it looks to be more of an introduction to what's new rather than an analysis of a list of gotchas like his earlier C++ and STL books. C++ has made some impressive leaps forward. He may have been in danger of running out of material if he stayed in it.