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Trump Says He'd Make Apple Build Computers In the US (businessinsider.com)
mrspoonsi writes with Business Insider's report that presidential candidate Donald Trump says he'd like to make Apple "start building their damn computers and things in this country instead of other countries."
From the article: Trump's ultimatum to the most valuable company in the world was made towards the end of a 45-minute speech he gave at Liberty University in Virginia on Monday. The most popular candidate in the Republican party said he would impose a 35% business tax on American businesses manufacturing outside of the United States. Apple has manufactured its Mac Pro at a factory in Texas since 2013, but the vast majority of its products (including the iPhone) are largely made and assembled in China. How Trump would force Apple's supply chain, which relies heavily on a vast network of suppliers and large factories throughout Asia, to be brought stateside remains unknown. Apple CEO Tim Cook recently called the U.S. tax code "awful for America." If Trump (or anyone) thinks this is a good idea, why start or stop with Apple?
He is not actually going to build that wall on the Mexican border, and whatnot.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
For someone who claims to not be a politician, Trump is very good as politician-speak - the art of telling people you'll do things with no intentions/plans/ability to follow through on it.
Also, I thought Republicans didn't like the government interfering in business? Wouldn't forcing a company to redo its entire operations just to keep everything in America fall under government interference? How long until people realize that President Trump won't be able to do half the things he claims he'll do?
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
It's obvious: because it's such a well-known and popular brand, and because it was recently under attack for treating Chinese workers poorly.
PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
How Trump would force Apple's supply chain, which relies heavily on a vast network of suppliers and large factories throughout Asia, to be brought stateside remains unknown
How about TFS be consistent with itself? It isn't unknown, it's by taxing them:
The most popular candidate in the Republican party said he would impose a 35% business tax on American businesses manufacturing outside of the United States.
I didn't even know that Apple was still considered an American business. Aren't they a tax shelter in Europe?
Or is he thinking that all businesses that sell stuff in the U.S. are considered American businesses?
As in how many would we have to back out of to do this?
No sir I dont like it.
And I absolutely include anybody in that category who promises, while running for president, to do something only Congress can do.
Trump said he would 'get' Apple to make their products in America, not 'make' Apple. There's a difference. He's not going to force Apple to come to America but convince them. He's going to improve the business tax codes which Tim Cooke has said is a driving force for Apple to make their products overseas. Trump's statement is not so outlandish as some world make it to be.
Here's what he actually said...
"We have such amazing people in this country: smart, sharp, energetic, they're amazing," Trump said. "I was saying make America great again, and I actually think we can say now, and I really believe this, we're gonna get things coming... we're gonna get Apple to start building their damn computers and things in this country, instead of in other countries."
Every time some politician makes a promise like this I always think, Sure but because of globalisation it will always be the smaller part of the company that resides in the first world. Therefore the logical outcome to any single government's moves against a corporation would be the decamping of said corporation to another jurisdiction. i.e. Apple would move out of the US entirely and place their headquarters in a more friendly nation.
Donald Trump says he'd like to make Apple "start building their damn computers and things in this country instead of other countries."
He can like whatever he wants but it's not possible for a lot of reasons.
1) Labor costs are too high in the US to be competitive on assembly work of that scale. I know this because I run a company that does contract assembly of electric products. Even Apple's profit margins aren't fat enough to make that possible.
2) The supply chain for all the components does not exist in the US. That business left the US a looong time ago.
3) Apple is actually a software company. If you put Android on their gear, nobody is going to pay a premium for it. The margins on their product are decidedly not in building the computer and Apple has no particular manufacturing expertise.
4) Apple doesn't build their computers. They hire other companies to do it. Same with Dell, HP, etc. The companies that actually build these things aren't US companies.
5) The president doesn't have the authority to do that and even if he did it would be a REALLY stupid idea. The only thing he would accomplish is to make it difficult for those companies to compete. Samsung isn't going to start building their machines in the US. Manufacturing goes where the costs are lowest and frequently that is not in the US thanks to high labor costs and in some cases regulations.
If Trump (or anyone) thinks this is a good idea, why start or stop with Apple?
It isn't a good idea and Trump is pandering. He knows perfectly well that it isn't possible, practical or a good idea. But he's more than happy to lie to people too dumb or ignorant to understand supply chain economics.
Please Emperor Donald please tell us angry white men exactly what we want to hear!
Please lie to us and make us believe that you can wave your Magic Wand of Satanic Lies and do magic that will save us!
Please Emperor Donald please make it so!
Apple will be assembling productsin the US within 10 yrs, using robotics, but it won't help employment rates because it will all be robotics based.
apple is known for squeezing every last cent out of its foreign workers' veins. if forced to move to usa, would it do the same for americans? it would have work hard at it, given the lazybone habits of americans.
apple is already hoodwinking american customers using hype (easy task since average american is unable and unwilling to use brains, any more than they do brawn ) by selling highly over priced average blah products as innovative, edgy, and stylish .
anyway good to see trump using hype and propaganda to beat up on apple that expert at hype and propaganda.
When Trump starts making his own crap in the US, maybe he can be taken seriously on the issue.
provides the logic most often used to justify offshoring and "free" international trade. However, the theory (logical as it is) is founded on a number of premises. A number of these premises held centuries ago but not so much any more. There is, notably, the premise that "factors of production" (e.g., factories and resources) cannot easily be moved. And money and credit were supposedly not conjurable at whim from nothing but government dictat. GIGO, even if the machine can run for some time on garbage and momentum.
... start with Wal-Mart. Wonder what Trump's base will do when faced with the price increase due to those tariffs? The push for economic autarky was one of the things that occurred in the 1930's and that didn't turn out too well. But it's a hard decision re: tax base, govt benefits, ... vs. globalization.
Trump said he would 'get' Apple to make their products in America, not 'make' Apple. There's a difference. He's not going to force Apple to come to America but convince them.
There is virtually nothing a US president can do to "convince" companies to make decisions like that. Getting Apple to move production back to the US will require a sea change in macro-economics and supply chains for manufacturing. A president could maybe make things a tad friendlier but most of the relevant obstacles are well outside the control of a president. We build plenty of stuff in the US. The manufacturing sector in the US is somewhere around $3 Trillion annually and growing. Worrying about where Apple builds its phones kind of misses the big picture.
He's going to improve the business tax codes which Tim Cooke has said is a driving force for Apple to make their products overseas. Trump's statement is not so outlandish as some world make it to be.
The tax codes have almost NOTHING to do with why Apple builds their products in China. They could drop taxes to zero and it wouldn't matter because it would still be cheaper to assembly elsewhere. The actual reasons are in approximate order of importance:
1) The supply chain for electronic assembly is in Asia. Most of the parts are made there and the companies that assemble them are there. Making an equivalent supply chain in the US is economically impossible at this point without heavy government subsidies which would violate all sorts of trade agreements.
2) Labor costs in china for assembly work are substantially lower than in the US
3) The companies who build the vast majority of consumer electronic products are located in Asia and are Asian companies
4) Labor and environmental regulations in places like China are substantially less stringent. This is not a bad thing but it does matter for where to make products. Matching the lack of regulations in some of these places would be a bad idea.
4) China is a critical market for a company like Apple to grow. The US market is important but saturated and future growth will need to come from the other 95% of the world population.
Its effectively a disguised import tariff and the US has gone to a lot of trouble to get "free trade" agreements with many countries, or alternatively deals with minimal customs duties. He'll end up with the regulatory bodies saying that this form of tax is illegal under the agreements and the USA would have to pay a lot of compensation
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
>> Why start with Apple?
I listen to Rush Limbaugh's show every couple of weeks and I know he's currently hawking at least two products: Donald Trump and Apple technology. By focusing on one of Rush's biggest advertisers (Apple), maybe Trump ensures he dominates Rush's show (as Rush tries to thread the needle between defending Apple and not trashing Trump) for a few more days?
(I don't think the effect of Rush's power in the primary polls can be underestimated. When he was hawking Scott Walker, Walker led in the polls. When he stopped hawking Walker, the guy dropped down to something like 1% support.)
Says the man who has his merchandise made in China.
He could have said I want to make Apple want to move their production in the US.
It appears he has little clue of what Apple builds ("computers and things").
Probably little clue about the supply chain movement necessary to make this wish come true.
But he makes a great sound bite.
I know this site leans to the right with the selection of front-page articles and the majority of user comments as well, but why are we giving more free PR to Trump? He gets it from every news network you can think of in this country and plenty abroad as well. If this statement came from anyone else it would have been ignored as the ramblings of a deranged person. Instead since they came from Trump we take them seriously.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
It will be "Assembled" in the USA.
Aka, minimum wage workers will take finished boards, some screws, or some epoxy, plug in some cables, do some polishing,etc, and Apple will call it "High Tech Manufacturing".
It will make a Foxconn job look like high tech.
Then again, it has to be dumbed down for Americans, expect Apple quality to suffer a little initially.
Missing screws, missing packages, dirty screens, scratches, etc.
There is a groundswell of support for Trump and others perceived to be "political outsiders" because the American public is increasingly fed up with career politicians. It's during times like this where a number of very unsavory characters have entered political life and caused quite a bit of mischief. I'm not saying Trump is comparable to any of those bad actors, but I am saying that the feeling of helplessness and anger in the American electorate is real and pervasive. Desperate people sometimes do silly things. One need look no further than the current administration to see what can happen when people throw caution to the wind hoping to "shake things up".
I honestly would love to see Trump win -- just because it will undoubtedly piss off millions of "political enthusiasts", aka voters. (Yup, that's exactly what I think of politics and government.)
Donald Trump said that America has been mismanaged, the same as Europe. I hope American people elect Donald Trump, and the Great USA, as we knew it, returns back.
News for the gullible? Stop feeding the Trump troll.
This seems like evidence that Trump doesn't really understand macro-economics. The reason why manufacturing of consumer goods was shipped overseas is because it was discovered that we couldn't afford the consumer goods as well at higher prices to pay American workers to make the goods. Thus, we moved the manufacturing overseas to bring down the price point to something more palatable to the typical American consumer. There is a far more complex economic issue going on here. We need to peel back the layers of the onion and find out answers to some real questions:
All of these are inter-related. There are better presidential candidates to get into these details than Trump and probably less biased.
We'll make great pets
As Tim Cook made clear in his discussion of this topic with Charlie Rose on 60 Minutes; the United States doesn't have the manufacturing labor force required to do what Apple needs. For a thorough discussion of the skills gap that is now a fact I recommend “Rebuilding America's Workforce: Business Strategies to Close the Competitive Gap” by William H. Kolberg and Foster C. Smith. Over two decades ago Kolberg and Smith warned that this was going to be a problem and how other countries were preparing for the future. Unfortunately business, government and education leaders in the United States didn’t listen.
Have you seen Trump's troglodyte fans? Or are they luddites? Or are they inbred assholes without education or the capacity for independent thought?
He's playing up to them, (or playing them, or both,) by attacking a large, valuable company that those neo fascist piles of human excrement who are seriously considering voting for this lunatic, see as having a fan-base of fart-huffing, cock-sucking faggots. He might as well have said, "I'm going to deport every one of those people who have iPhones to San Francisco, make them pay for a giant, AIDS wall, to keep their AIDS and their iPhones inside their faggoty-ass, low-energy city!"
They'd have eaten that up. You know they would have. I know they would have. Even THEY probably know they would have.
- Written on my iPhone 6s+ connected to my MacBook Pro, while wearing my Apple Watch and listening to Air Supply on my Beats Headphones.
J/K. I don't own the iWatch or Beaten Headphones.
Weasel words. Regardless of what the mass media wants you to think, Trump is polling in 3rd place behind Cruz and Rubio, but 75% of the stories are about him; therefore he's the "most popular" candidate somehow.
Nevermind that 100% of democrats hate him, and over 2/3 of Republicans favor another Republican candidate. The reason people even care about Trump is because listening to him talk is like watching a train-wreck in progress.
Who is going to make him get his wives from the US?
He says he would raise taxes on businesses manufacturing outside the US. That seems like a practical and implementable, if stupid, plan.
The president has no control over tax rates on businesses. Congress controls that. The president can suggest but that's about all.
Anyway, that will be the least of your problems if you elect him.
True 'dat
The summary at least is a little poorly thought.
"The most popular candidate in the Republican party said he would impose a 35% business tax on American businesses manufacturing outside of the United States."
Okay.
"How Trump would force Apple's supply chain, which relies heavily on a vast network of suppliers and large factories throughout Asia, to be brought stateside remains unknown."
Seriously, did you not read that first quote? Obviously, that is how he plans to do it.
"If Trump (or anyone) thinks this is a good idea, why start or stop with Apple? "
Again, did you fail to read that first quote. Apple is an obviously an example, he proposed a tax (the quote above) that would give a financial push to all US based companies to manufacture in the US.
Whether you think it's a good idea or a bad one there is no reason to be deliberately obtuse. Despite us having almost non-existent inflation, arguably being in danger of deflation even with the fed rate at practically nothing (banks can get new money for free, all you can eat inflation buffet) the economy is crashing in response to free falling oil prices and more importantly problems in the Chinese economy. Not to mention widespread IP threat and industrial espionage on the part of the Chinese. It IS a valid strategy, that would force inflation (which our currency depends on), would do in a mostly luxury area (tech) and create jobs in the US providing a vehicle for some of that money to move out of the banks and into the general population.
The problems are that it is isolationist, may hurt our relations with China, and that the jobs will be mostly low paid so it will actually further hollow out the middle class. Some would argue that businesses would leave. That isn't really a valid problem, being blocked from trade in the US in retaliation for such a move would bankrupt any such technology instantly.
Trump is a Chump! Dump the Trump!
Lose the Cruz!
Forget the Democrats while you're at it!
They're all LOSERS!
VOTE LIBERTARIAN
This is practically boring by Trump standards. It's not even insane- it's protectionism. This has a long history, and in some industries is generally tolerated or even desired (by more than just fringe groups), in some amount. What Trump is describing isn't of the normal sort, of course- it's extreme and would cause havok in a number of industries.
Like much of Trump's rhetoric, it assumes powers that presidents don't have. Trump presumably knows this, and is undeterred, because he wants to be elected, and his track is populist screed, so off he goes.
The only thing he says on this that has some merit is his brief rant about Boeing. A Boeing plant will give China access to seriously new tools and methods that they currently haven't been able to copy from the shortsighted companies that make factories in China and have them duplicated by a Chinese company a few years later. I don't know if this is worth some federal action, however, and certainly a president isn't the one to make the call.
To answer the question, if you listen to Trump, he wouldn't stop with Apple, he'd go on a rampage of magically teleporting factories around and tossing out tariffs that are likely banned by treaty for decades.
It's not surprising for a populist to promise protectionism, and it's the least scary thing on his agenda. Destroying a few dozen industries is nothing compared to what he's promised internationally or for civil rights lol
http://www.cnet.com/news/apple-to-build-made-in-the-usa-manufacturing-plant-in-arizona/
Our government should encourage Foxconn to build a plant in the US. That way Apple, Microsoft and other US company products can be built in the US. A tax break for all companies manufacturing in the US for North American, and other, distribution would go a long way.
I believe the definitive term for such a politician is "snollygoster".
Fuck, but does America have a fuckton of those.
In fact, I don't think one can "succeed" as a USA politician if one is NOT a snollygoster. It's almost been a prerequisite for last few decades. Honesty doesn't pay.
And it's not just the angry rednecks and sophomores with fingers in their ears, Mr Penguin - almost every demographic of the American populace is deluded about reality vs. their dreams. So, yes, you're all heading off a cliff together, and there's little chance you can avoid the fall... sorry 'bout that.
"There is always a well-known solution to every human problem - neat, plausible, and wrong."
Wanting to help the US economy is fine. Wanting to encourage companies to manufacture more things in the US is fine. This "simple and obvious" solution to the problem would end up causing more problems than it solved. Tax dodging through technicalities, decline in quality and/or increase in prices, US companies moving off shore, treaty violations, and i'm sure others that haven't been brought up yet.
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
I think the trick to this is getting both sides to really do their part, meaning I'll lower the tax rate but we have to close these other loopholes. Lowering the rate is the easy part since that's what people cheer. Closing loopholes always gets angry responses from whoever just lost a loophole. That's why loopholes tend to stay put or, if closed, are matched by a new loophole. It's not unlike amnesty programs for illegal aliens. I think a lot of people would be fine letting them stay in exchange for no more illegal immigration. Reagan tried that back in 1986 and gave amnesty in exchange for tougher border controls to stop the flow. The amnesty happened but of course millions more illegals came. Getting both sides to follow through is the hard part. A simpler tax process would also increase transparency, which in general is a good thing.
Trump is shit and obviously he won't do this but it's a decent ploy/lie as far as morons are concerned, because we do need to bring manufacturing back.
Republicans are extremely PRO free trade.
These kinds of tarrifs are normally the dream of unions not republicans.
100% made in USA legislation would probaby cause apple shares to drop by 90%.
It would proably bankrupt most companies on Wall street.
Ted Cruz was elected senator of Texas, because his opponents were unpopular: David Dewhurst, Tom Leppert, and some Democrat. I think Mike Rawlings, and George P. Bush (Jeb's kid) are waiting for Texas to become hispanic dominated before running for national office. Ted Cruz has acted as a hardline conservative, as many Texans desired their senator too.
Unfortunately, the only thing in the Senate Ted Cruz is the head of, is the Senate Subcommittee on Space and Science (NASA). Ted Cruz could have pushed to have the SLS cancelled, and spend money developing new tech, as the Obama Administration wanted to, but he was rejected. Ted Cruz could have been involved in the RD-180 engine sanction issues, like Bill Nelson, and John McCain were, but he wasn't. Thank god for Bill Nelson for doing at least a mediocre job in setting NASA policy. Ted Cruz has had some embarrasing flip flops on H-1Bs, and other issues. That's ok if you're running as an experienced moderate, but not as a political hardliner.
I think a better, older, American made Ted Cruz would beat Donald Trump, but this is a young and inexperienced Ted Cruz going up against an old, and seasoned, Donald Trump. I am afraid of a Ted Cruz foreign policy. Obama benefited by having Biden, and by trying not to do much.
Very clueless idea to try and force a company or anyone to do something not in their own interest. Even worse idea to single out one company.
What he should have said is that he would change the tax environment to make it in their interest to do the right thing.
Say, provide tax incentives to encourage not only Apple but everyone to source/build/work in the US, and tax disincentives to do it offshore.
Ultimately any company would still be free to build in China or anywhere else if they really want, they just need to end up paying more than it would cost them locally for the pleasure.
Trust me, if the government did that, everything would change VERY quickly, since companies REALLY don't like giving up money.
If they start building those already over-priced devices in America with American parts, you'd have to mortgage your home and sell your first born!
Trump is the first truly populist presidential candidate in a long time. But there's a long rich history of chest thumpers willing to say anything to get elected.
The best recent example in modern times is probably Hugo Chavez in Venezuela.
We do need ways to encourage people to build their items for sale in the US IN the US. A lower tax for businesses building here may encourage this.
What's wrong with bringing jobs back to the USA? Don't shoot the messenger[s]. Hello?!
How about make all companies doing business in the US use US resources (including human) rather than just focusing on one company outsourcing their labor?
Unless Apple is a national company (which, it isn't) or vital to national defense/security, I don't see how they legislate just one company to use his proposed model.
Adding more labor jobs sounds great and all, but toxic byproducts from manufacturing doesn't.
The alternative being to start/stop nowhere in particular? To shroud the issue in a quantum haze of indeterminacy? Here's what every slippery-sloper knows deep in his heart of hearts: you fundamentally get the job done with a single unsuppressed stroke.
Any other duration would be arbitrary.
A president that can set rules that only penalize a single corporation... can also set rules that immensely benefit a single corporation, and rake in a fortune in bribes. Hopefully, that is not allowed in our democracy. It it were, it might be more properly described as a kleptocracy. That doesn't mean that laws that only benefit a single company have never been passed; they have, but by bribing members of congress, not the president.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
>How Trump would force Apple's supply chain, which relies heavily on a vast network of suppliers and large factories throughout Asia, to be brought stateside remains unknown.
>why start or stop with Apple?
Maybe, just maybe the answer lies in this part
>The most popular candidate in the Republican party said he would impose a 35% business tax on American businesses manufacturing outside of the United States.
Most linux users don't know this, but the man pages were named after Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris fsck'ing hates noobs!
Because his crowd of brown shirts hate hipsters *almost* as much as they hate minorities.
The jobs created from building the facilities, logistics, disposal, mining the raw materials, processing those materials..... that would be a supershot in the arm for the economy without having to go to war in search of phony WMDs. Also if you thought Apple was a status symbol now, when made in the USA without the fear of China/Korea reverse engineering our products will allow us to begin to truly innovate again. Last but not least phone carriers will simply go back to contract plans to keep them affordable to the public and happily lock them in so brand loyalty becomes stronger than ever for them.
Sounds suspiciously like National Socialism. Look at what it did for Germany!
Easy Online Role Playing Campaign Management
Trump isn't a serious candidate. Americans would surely never vote for someone as ridiculous - at least, not unless Hilary Clinton was standing against him, since she appears to be a toxic sociopath. America needs a socialist candidate; someone who will sort out the endemic corruption problems in the US political system, the right wing media, lobbyists, 'donations' [bribes], nationalization of health care, the deranged foreign policy, de-militarisation, and world trade law reform in favor of the average worker.
If Trump did as he says, then America would face sanctions or possibly even expulsion from the WTO. When it comes to world trade laws, America has made her bed, now she must lie (or should that be die?) in it. These right wing 'free market' policies will obviously devastate the US economy, at the expense of corporate profit, but that is what happens when you have a corporate dictatorship.
TGrump is pathetic. His clothing lines are made in Mexico and China while his hotels are cleaned and serviced by numerous illegal aliens. What a pathetic joke he is.
Mr. Trump wants Apple Inc. to start building computers? What an outlandish idea!
"Trump just says stuff because he doesn't actually know how anything works. Business included. He's a complete moron who just got handed a silver spoon at birth. His apparent success should not be any indication he has a clue how anything other than bribing works in the world. He know nothing about politics, nothing about business, nothing about people, nothing about the world. He's gotten were he is simply because of money."
Trump has forgotten more than Obama knows.
Are you sure you're not speaking about Obama? He is a clueless moron whose admin remarkably resembles that of the British government targeted by Fawkes. Occupy had it all backwards LOL.
See subject and from micro OR macro economic viewpoints since sending good paying jobs overseas decreases disposable income (monies earned for beyond basic food, shelter, utilities needs) is removed from the US workers pocket making purchases like new pc's impossible AND increases unemployment (which raises taxes also on workers and companies). Cut the snowjob corporatist 1% bullshit already please. Don't you have enough money already?
This thread is another great example of how the Left is willing to say anything to cover up their fear of losing in a landslide this election because America will be made great again. TRUMP 2016!!!
and he will deport muslims, Linux users, and other undesirables.
Paying American workers (as if they wouldn't find every workaround) would only help so long..
The economy time bomb can be boiled to an oversimplified one-liner: Concentrated wealth is staying concentrated. It's stagnant. We can delay the problem by spending money back down on things like R&D or other assets, but our oligarchs are powerful and ensure ROI, which is an acronym that means the wealth will simply reconcentrate. Harder.
Labor doesn't unconcentrate wealth either, an employee exists because s/he's a profit vector. The endgame is cash gravity wells. So Apple &c have money (ie "All in the world" quantities) and no way to get it back down to the proles. Wages will collapse, as will prices on the necessities that scale well to mass production and happily race to the bottom. They already have, really. "Get used to high fructose corn syrup" is an outdated remark.
your little two-bit company's experience not relevant, large scale manufacturing of electronics IS and can be done in the USA.
Sorry my friend but I'm in the industry and I make my living from global sourcing of electronics. I've worked in Fortune 500 companies doing global supply chain analysis and sourcing. Pretty much ALL large scale assembly of electronics is done outside the US. We have some chip fabs and we do some specialty work in some vertical industries but if it involves any meaningful amount of labor it is almost always done in countries with low labor rates. (in other words not the US) The supply chains for the components are largely in Asia so it is most economical to do assembly there as well especially given the cheap labor. That's not an opinion. It's a fact. You believe that large scale mfg of electronics can be done in the US but to believe that you have to ignore the last 30 years of evidence. Your ideology is not based in fact.
supply chain is global, anything can be sent to USA
Not economically it can't. Shipping them across the ocean for final assembly is a LOT more expensive than assembling them first and then shipping a finished product. It's generally far cheaper to assembly an iphone in china than it is to ship a screen + a circuit board + a shell + the rest and then assemble in the US with higher labor rates.
apple is also a hardware design company and has things built
Apple is a software company that sells their software in a pretty box. I've already linked to Steve Jobs himself saying so explicitly. They manufacture almost nothing tangible themselves and have no particular expertise in manufacturing. They outsourced their manufacturing because they don't make their profits from it. Apple designs nice hardware to help sell their software but almost nobody would pay a premium for a Macintosh running Windows without OSX. The iPhone hardware is no better than any number of Android phones and nobody would pay premium prices for an iPhone running Android. Apple does design because nobody would buy their products if they were poorly designed. That just gets them in the game.
Fast Track Trade. look it up, president has the power
Fast track trade authority is an authorization given by congress to the president for a limited time to negotiate a trade deal which Congress still has to approve with an up or down vote. It does not give the president any sort of authority to force companies to manufacture goods inside the US.
and most of it is complete and utter bullshit.
This policy initiative sounds like a fantastic way to speed up corporate inversions. Want to see all the remaining US companies that actually manufacture products headquarter somewhere else? Enact this idea.
What a fucking idiot.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Asshat. But in a race with others ranging from liars to loons, he somehow fits right in. Reminds me of Huey Long.
Organization? You must be joking..
I'd like to see Trump force something like this on the American people. Maybe the mass emigration of top tech firms would provide some motivation to fix the tax code. Meanwhile, we'd make Apple feel welcome in Canada.
when they hear this policy proposal.
If American robot factories are going to be cost-competitive with Chinese manual factories or the upcoming Chinese robot factories, then why not bring back the "robo-facturing" (the new word for "manufacturing") to America.
Just don't expect it to bring job growth with it, as he is trying to sell.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
Trump never said he'd "MAKE" apple do anything. Trump never said he was going to "FORCE" apple to do anything. The direct quote from Trump was "‘We’re Gonna Get Apple to Start Building Their Damn Computers and Things In This Country’" Gonna is a word that implies he'll work with them to bring the jobs back. Here's a list of Leftist media who have taken his quote out of context and should never be read if you value the TRUTH:
“Trump promises he’ll force Apple to manufacture in the U.S.” – CNet
“Trump says he will force Apple to manufacture in the U.S. even though that makes absolutely no sense.” – Gizmodo
“Donald Trump says he will force Apple to build its ‘computers and things’ in the United States.” – 9to5Mac
“Stupid or not? Trump says he’ll force Apple to make its ‘damn computers’ in the U.S.” – VentureBeat
“Trump: I’ll force Apple to make its ‘damn computers and things’ in U.S.” – ZDNet
They all use the word "FORCE" like the LIARS they are. Shameless Leftist media lightweights who can't Stump the Trump.
Here's the entire quote from the end of the Liberty University Speech: "Very simply – and I didn’t used to say this, two or three weeks ago I wouldn’t say it, but I think I can say it now, because I’ve seen so many people, we have such amazing people in this country – smart, sharp, energetic, they’re amazing.
I was saying, “Make America Great Again.” I actually think we can say now, and I really believe this – we’re going to get things coming. We’re going to get Apple to start building their damn computers and things in this country, instead of in other countries. And I honestly think I can say, and I’ve said it for the last two weeks, and I mean it a hundred percent or I wouldn’t say it: we’re going to make America great again greater than ever before. And we can do that. We’re gonna win, and we’re gonna win a lot."
Here is the above quote LIVE at the time stamp: https://youtu.be/xSAyOlQuVX4?t=4033
So there you have it folks. Leftist media propaganda full of lies, leftist registered slashdotters full of lies, and intelligent people aren't buying your BS anymore.
Come November America will be made great again. TRUMP 2016!!!!!!!!
It was on Politico: http://www.politico.com/magazi...
One, Apple does build some in the U.S.
Two, Canada's currency is collapsing, and... I dunno
Y'know, maybe, when most of the jobs (not by $s but by bodies) are off-shore, the executives should be forced to move to where the bodies are most concentrated. If the executive food-chain has to relocate to China... and have the corporation considered a net importer... something might change.
Once we can "properly" tariff imports of manufactured goods, we can start figuring out how to tariff the IT workers off-shore; As IT work gets pushed off-shore, the Treasury gets cheated both ways since not only are the "high paying" technical jobs moved off-shore to people who aren't taxable by the USA, but the "bits" coming through the InterNet can't be taxed, either.
Troll? Funny? Insightful? I am so confused.
Would work, aren't Apple fans ready to pay stupidly enormous amounts of money for an apple device?
I don't disagree, however further to this, three points:
1) It is called a "safety net" not "irresponsibility net". Sure there will be those that take advantage of the system, there always will be. You can be totally responsible, and try to plan for things, but sometimes life doesn't quite cooperate. Anyone could be hit with something that could destroy them, the net is there for that purpose.
2) Not all things are equal. Certain people are going to have better success being responsible and planning for things. I would say that it pretty directly proportional to how well off your family is (and all sorts of related topics such as better education, health, etc...). Essentially if you already have support, it is easier to responsibly support yourself. The rich have an easier time of it, the poor not so much.
3) A safety net allows those in certain situations, such as coming from a poor family, a better opportunity to end the cycle, and with that additional state sponsored support, become more responsible and plan for things, thus eventually (ideally) reducing the amount of folks that actually need such support into the future.
However you will have those situations where folks in a negative environment abuse the system, and then learn how to abuse the system themselves perpetuating the abuse. So it is important to be vigilant and try to reduce this. However addressing this issue is complex.
If Trump wins, and Hillary wins, it seems like something out of a Simpsons episode.
I mean Trump is a ridiculous human being, and the other candidate is named CLIN-TON.
Somehow I can see a debate ending with them taking off their human disguises, and laughing maniacally about the failures of the two party system!
Queue the Alien Overlords with whips forcing Americans to build a giant ray gun, er I mean Apple Smartphones...
[nt]
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
A presidential candidate that actually knew what the fuck they were talking about when it came to computers, networking (And security) and the internet?
I run for the popcorn every time bernie, hillary, trump, cruz, etc. are asked any kind of technology related question.
Apple is one of the most profitable firms on the planet, and they sell themselves as a "good" company of "good" people while using slave and child labor and demanding they cannot be profitable without the evil business practices. If mighty Apple cannot be profitable without doing everything in China, then how are all the companies who DO employ Americans able to survive????
Tim Cook and his board are no different from a circa 1850 southern white slave owner. The pretense of being "good" yet living atop a mountain of slave labor and claiming it's an economic necessity is EXACTLY the same. The masters of the cotton industry whined that without slaves they just could not possibly be profitable, and people all over would be unable to afford cotton-based products. Those white slave masters, many of whom pretended to be "good" Christians are little different from Cook and friends who are always moralizing about how "good" they are.
Apple is a vile corporation that has perfected the art of propagandizing the masses into thinking it is morally superior. The public is supposed to keep paying premium prices for Apple products and ignore all the evil apple CHOOSES to use to make those products. Remember: Apple became fabulously profitable the first time they rose, while building EVERYTHING in the US, and they are now far more wealthy than they were then. They would still be fabulously profitable today building everything in the US; they just prefer being far more profitable if they can get away with it. There's nothing funnier than watching the drones who heap hate on "big oil", "big pharma", health insurance companies, etc and then fawn over Apple, convinced of its moral superiority.
Anything that generates ANY waste or pollution in the US is alarming and evil and must be stopped "to save the planet", but if you move it to China then everything is just wonderful. Pollution in the US from a car used by a poor person to get to work and feed his family is EVIL, but pollution to run a server farm and internet infrastructure so you can speak into your phone and have it lookup some stupid comedy show on netflix and is GREAT.
FYI: Toxic chemicals are no less toxic in China. In fact, they are likely to be less-well handled and disposed of, and more-likely to harm workers, contaminate products and the environment, etc because its an officially one-party-rule Communist country - and such countries ALWAYS put the environment and the health of their workers LAST. I guess, to the modern leftwing brain, all the damage is fine if it's done to little yellow people. Tell me: do all Asians look the same to you? Is your idea of "social justice" that Asians (who you probably think are cartoonish little people with slanted eyes, thick glasses, and bamboo hats) are expendable? The disgusting racism of the "do it in China" crowd is amazing.
It's made in china and his excuse was it's too expensive to make it in the US. You paying 35% tariff on those goods OK if you're elected? The guy is a waste roof the reality show but unfortunately none of what he says has any relationship to reality.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
In other news: Apple buys Trump for Chump Change and stuffs him back in the plastic bag where he belongs.
That sounds like a good plan to take Apple from blue chip to penny stock.
It is assembled in Texas all the electrics are from elsewhere except maybe a few chips and the screws. It is also probably their lowest volume product (iPod might be less by now not sure) and isn't exactly drawing many crowds if you haven't noticed what was expensive is now ludicrously so and obsolete (~2.5 yr old CPU, 1/2 speed ram versus "enthusiasts" DDR 4 now etc). I get it is ECC ram and PCIe SSDs but damn.
Lets see them try to source the majority of the parts and manufacture in the US a high volume item like say the iPad mini: good luck.
Isn't it funny how the "small government" types often want far more power to tell people what to do?
Chairman Mao would be pleased with such a desire to have a command economy. The only reason China is capable of building Apples today is because they relaxed such idiotic control.
At least four of his businesses have gone under, but somehow he's managed to get out unscathed.
Seems like he is the ideal US President then. US will not do well in the coming years - Trump will dodge the responsibility expertly.
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
What he says to get elected is one thing. What he intends to do if elected is another. What he actually does when elected is a third thing. Not saying that there is no overlap between these, but these are definitely different.
He probably said that just to get elected. He might even threaten to do it. Apple, I'm sure, could come up with a way to deal with it.
Worst comes to worst, Apple could move its corporate HQ - there'd be a great many countries which would love to host Apple.
More realistically, Apple could do something as a "good corporate citizen" and get Congress to dump the bill. Maybe they supply Macs or iPads to every school? Something like that.
And isn't that why Apple keeps so much money offshore already? Moreover, if Apple is already willing to keep large chunks of profit in offshore subsidiaries, what's to stop them from inverting and avoiding Trump's penalty by not being an American company at all?
Roman doesn't even work in the states, and pays no SS, medicare, or US income tax. He brags about that regularly; he posted this comment just to bring attention to his religious crusade.
That is a great idea. It's open jobs up. Anyone can buy a bulk cluster of Vienamese jackets and tell them to put a logo... Then sell it at a stupidly marked up price and call it a business.
Apple could be the pilot business to lead by example. Less shit companies on the board.
Instead he's focusing on where the computers are made? He clearly doesn't understand that manufacturing is NOT where the high paying jobs are anymore, and this is especially true with commodity items like computers and phones. You aren't going to get people making iPhones in the US, period, ever. It's increasingly becoming completely automated, and what human work there is to do is mind-numbing to the point of people committing suicide because of working conditions.
You want to fix something about Apple (and Apple isn't the only culprit) then close the fucking loopholes that allow Apple to basically pay zero tax in the US while still operating in the US. That's the crime that needs to be fixed, but it will take the co-operation of countries to do this, so that there is no safe haven.
Labor is a small component of that. In terms of labor time, we are talking roughly 10-13 hours (studies in 2012 demonstrated this).
Cripe, I could have given you a pretty good estimate of the labor required. (I'm an industrial engineer and an accountant and I do this for a living) The labor costs are meanigful but they would be 4-5X larger here in the US. What is FAR more important is that the product is made almost literally right next door to the companies that make the components. There is NO equivalent supply chain here in the US and developing one isn't going to happen. Having your suppliers nearby is a big deal.
With a US wage differential, one adds roughly $150 dollars in cost.
So you are suggesting Apple add 25% to the cost. Are you aware that Apple's net margins are approximately 25%? Basically you are suggesting Apple sell this product for breakeven prices. Remember that the vast majority of the profit in that supply chain goes to Apple so you are (intentionally or not) suggesting Apple take a huge reduction in profits on their most important product. To say that is a bad idea is to state the obvious.
By the way, people have looked into the cost of an All American iPhone and the results aren't pretty. You'd possibly be looking at an iPhone that might cost $2000 retail.
2. The $150 in cost is not borne entirely by consumer. Rather, it is split by everyone in the transaction including investors and other suppliers.
Since Apple takes almost all the profits in the supply chain you are either suggesting Apple take a bath or that consumers pay more. Neither of those are likely. I can assure you that the margins at Foxconn and the others aren't fat and there isn't a lot of room for them to accept smaller margins if they want to stay in business. It is highly unlikely their net profits are above 10% - very typical for manufacturing companies.
3. Competitive effects would be muted by tariffs and tax incentives against foreign or offshoring competitors.
So you are suggesting protectionist taxation to enable inefficient US companies to compete? That is a stupid and ultimately counterproductive idea. We did that with steel during the Bush presidency and all it accomplished was to raise prices on products that use steel like cars. Raising tariffs on any product ultimately forces the consumer to bear the added cost. It also has all sorts of detrimental effects on companies in affected areas not to mention the fact that it would likely violate all sorts of WTO and other trade agreements. Tariffs and tax incentives to prop up companies that cannot compete are generally a hugely bad idea.
The man's run enough companies into bankruptcy, why not go big.
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
He should have been a story writer for the Onion. Seriously, this guy is like a walking-talking Mad Lib generator. Some of the weirdest shit comes out of his mouth. Someone should whip together a Trump headline generator that puts out the most over-the-top senseless crap and and auto-post the results to free press release sites. The general press is bound to be fooled by a few of them (Hell, Trump may even adopt a few for himself as campaign positions).
You present a false choice, between a social safety net and no social safety net.
We are always going to have a social safety net. The real choice is, will we pursue pro-growth policies that allow us to fund a great safety net rather effortlessly? Or will we condemn ourselves to a low-growth economy, in which maintaining a mediocre safety net is rather burdensome?
Social Security was set up as a rob-Peter-to-pay-Paul scheme, with Peter being current workers, and Paul being current retirees. (Along with that scheme comes a constant angst: "Birth rates are falling, and if we don't let in millions of immigrants with questionable skills and loyalties, there won't be enough workers paying FICA taxes and Social Security will collapse!")
If it had instead been set up as a system of more privatized accounts, with owners permitted to invest the funds in bonds and diversified stock holdings, all current retirees would be immensely better off. And they would have the means to contribute to a more robust social safety net than the one we currently have.
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
The tax code is actually good for America, but it's bad for Apple. The companies who *do* pay their taxes actually fund the public services we enjoy and take for granted as part of living in the 1st world. Tim Cook lives in America and he enjoys living in a great city because *other* companies do pay their taxes. The tax code is good for America and Tim Cook is willfully blind to deny it.
He seems to think that he can levy taxes, impose prison sentences and lots of other nonsense.
The more he talks the more it is obvious that he wants to be a dictator.
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