Ever play a video game full of puzzles... like Resident Evil? Play for about 2 hours getting through all those tough puzzles, then forget to save, and the game crashes?
You spend a good 30 minutes cursing, and hitting your head against the wall, then you start back up. You get back to the spot you were and save the game. How long did it take you? 30 minutes. Why? Because you knew every single solution to every problem along the way.
If our systems were destroyed, we wouldn't have to go through that period with vaccuum tubes, we'd go straight to transistors (thank god). We'd not have to figure out how to go from a 286 chip to a 386. All this info is in books, and we'd have the knowledge of every hookup and the solutions to those hookups throughout the revolution of the information age.
I think we'd be back up and running in no time. It wouldn't be overnight, but it wouldn't be more than 5 years. This isn't bad considering its been like 50 to get to where we are today. Now keep in mind that I'm assuming that banks and stuff like that would go on uninterupted, which is a biiiiig assumption, but it wasn't mentioned in the question, so I'm assuming:-P
90% of jobs can be done by either a CSc or a CEng, and 5 years after you grad it won't really matter, it'll be your exerience that counts.
The question is, what are you willing to do in those five years?
CompE's tend to get better jobs with better pay. Its a bit easier to get the job you want with the engineering degree, but not impossible to do with the CS...
And on the math comment posted in the replies, most CompE's have to take an additional 2 whole math classes to get their minors (I got mine).
I'm a programmer. Been so every day of my life. I chose CompE over CS and IS. It wasn't easy, because CompE is a lot of electronic work. However, learning to be any type of engineer requires you to learn (more like pounded in your head) how to be a pristine designer. Learning stuff like OOP, UML, and design patterns are easier. CompE's can make design documentation in their sleep.
When you get out in the real world, you don't sit and code every hour of your job. You have to look at your requirements every morning and make design changes based on your requirement changes. Sure you code most of the day, but the important stuff is the design you do every morning. Trust me, when it comes to coding, its better to be a good designer than a good coder. And, as you probably know, if you code all day without design, it usually results in wasting hours of coding something that isn't a requirement, where as if you spend that extra hour every day designing, you hardly have to go back on work you've already done.
CompE is the hardest computer degree... requires a ton of math and sciences, but its better to go through 5 years of hell and be set for life than breeze through 5 years, and spend the next 10 years proving your worth.
absa-posa-lutely! I am in complete agreement.
The decrease *AND* increase of the music industry cannot be attributed to Napster unless we compare it with the same data at the same time period without Napster's influence. I'm really sick of these reports, even if they are pro-Napster. Its just bad analysis. If you are going to use statistical analysis, USE IT CORRECTLY!
I could go on and on explaining the validity of this quote, but instead I'll just use it. I found it when I moved from a bad job to a good one:
We do not live to work; We work to live.
Now I don't suggest you find a place to work, then find a job... but if you have a large assortment of offers, environments of your personal life should be a large factor in your decision.
In high school, just watching what an engineering job *is* is a learning opportunity. But there are 2 truths you must understand.
1.) Co-ops -ARE- cheap labor. They hire you as an employee at a lot less rate than college grads. You get experience (and trust me, you get experience just making coffee if you are exposed to how the corporation works), and they get cheap labor. Its how the world works.
2.) Entry level jobs (even engineering) is a lot of tedious, repetitous tasks. Especially in large corporations. Only after a few years of that do you get to do interesting work. Its something we all go through.
Take this as a learning experience when you get to college and co-op as a college student, take a job in a smaller company (like 100 employees) and you'll have a slightly more interesting job experience. Always do 110%, because employers recognize that with more interesting jobs.
Oh, and kudos on co-op'ing. You'll find yourself a much more desirable possible employee with co-op experience.
I was going to make the same comment, but since you beat me to it, I'll just add to your comment.
Anyone want to make a quick buck? Make a FPS with online capabilities that has great graphics. The end.
Doesn't this bug any of you? ID *used* to make innovative games (they invented the FPS). Now they are just the company that comes out with the newest FPS engine. Why not use the 'sacrifice' engine? I don't think the "greater polygon" is needed as much as the "full outdoor feel" that is used in sacrifice (sacrifice.net for the webpage, btw).
From the previous posts ran yesterday, I think that ID needs to stop worrying about adding polygons, and start worrying about what totally new innovations haven't the gaming community seen.
Is this to compete against cyber-cafe's? They were the first to start using broadband and computers to get business...
I know there is a cyber cafe next to the university I went to. It got its business by charging by the 1/2 hour to play quake on their network (which was hooked to the internet). We all know competing against people is more fun, especially if its a lot of people (64 player quake2 games, for example).
Before I am flamed, lemmie make myself clear on my terminology to fall in line with the story:
Innovation = Technology
Creativity = Innovation
Innovation to me always meant the wonders of current technology.
I'm an engineer, not an english major:-P
Here's the opportunity "Garage" game developers have to get their games out on the shelf. Here's the problem: Why can't you have innovation AND creativity?
Lets look at some games that showed some serious creativity (expect lotsa Spector):
Thief. Sure the graphics weren't Q3, but it *was* 3D. It was a 3D shooter without the shooting.
System Shock Series. Here's a real killer to the theory presented. It took a 2D RPG and made it a FPS. It took creativity and added innovation, which made it an absolutely excellent game.
Deus Ex. Take an innovative game, with a creative plot, and make it open-ended. A success!
You see, innovative games can (and are, for that matter) creative. The problem is that the kiddies just want their Quake fix and kill their buddies. This means low profits for the creative games. Which is another reason how this theory will fail (who's going to play them?).
Sure PONG, breakout, and tetris are fun, but when you can have fun with innovation, its just more attractive...
I think the real key to making a game isn't making a hell of a plot, and expect people to ignore the gameplay, nor making an excellent gameplay, but no plot...
The first, and foremost key is making the game 'fun'. But I find this to be an opinionated and useless term.
The real key is putting in a 'balance'. Halflife (which is going to be overused in this whole discussion) made an EXCELLENT balance between plot and action. There was no real "You killed X number of monsters, found X number of secrets, etc...", because your goals were "get the hell outta that lab", which screamed plot (not to mention how every npc interacted with you). But the action part was balanced because there really wasn't 'levels', it was 'chapters', and it was very continuous.
Another example would be System Shock 2. It was a first person action game, just like any other. WRONG! It was breath-takingly scary. The well written plot, with the errie sounds, with the constant action (either stompin aliens or running for the hills) made such an excellent combination, it was a sleeper hit over Q3.
Now you don't need to have an intricate plot (like SS2, HL, Deus Ex, etc...) to balance the game, take 'theif' for example. It had a minor plot, but the action was also minor. It still was a great game (not to mention genre breaking). How could someone like a game that was only 'minor' in plot and action? Well, honestly, I think it was the 'breaking the genre' that did it, but it wouldn't be fun if it was all action and no plot or vice versa.
This is why Oni will be a breakthrough game. Combine action, 3rd person, and fighting games, and you got a new genre. But it has a story the works right alongside the action.
If you compare games like quake and UT to games like Halflife, Deus Ex, and System Shock 2, you'll discover that a carful mix of action and plot can make the game. I think it's the right combination that's the key here. Any game that is all action (like Quake), and any game that is all plot (like Metal Gear) doesn't quite compare with those that have both.
Another point to bring up is with online games. If its a team game, you kind of make the plot as you go along. When people assume specific roles (even if its just 'sniper' or 'offense' and 'defense') it kinda makes its own plot. These can be very exciting games (just look at how tribes grew).
This is coming from the company that is trying to patent the human being "Peter Norton" (keep in mind he hasn't touched the code for the Norton utilities for several years)... What do you expect?
Check out the skins and spraypaints for games like counter-strike, tribes, and Q3 (the amateur ones). Sure you may not attract hundreds of good artists, but you're sure to get a few really good ones.
But we are forgetting the golden rule of the GPL. There will be (in theory) hundreds of coders, artists, and designers working on the free server, which should make it a better game than the pay-servers.
Want an example? How about Linux vs. Windows?
This is just like pay-per-play muds.
There will be tons of people that will grab the code and create a free-service server, and everyone will hoard to that instead of the pay servers. Why play the pay servers when the free ones are just as good??
I don't see GPL'ed games working in the business world for this very reason. I know a lot of people will disagree... trust me, I don't like it either, but that's the way it works.
Citizens in the United States have freedom of speech, religion, and press only if it complies with the following subclauses:
There are 456,326,563,743,445 subclauses, do you want me to list them all?
Seriously, though... How can you truely tell me that these WIPO rules aren't a direct violation of the first amendment??
I agree with this, and allow me to add to this. With experience in the workforce, you gain experience on how to present your solutions. There are techniques on making it appear that your boss came up with your idea. That way your idea will take shape. But are you willing to allow your boss to take the credit for the idea?
You see, usually the problem is that people want credit, not their solution solved because it is good for the company. You may not fall into this category, but it is a very typical problem. If you have the frame of mind that makes you want your solution to be implemented for the good of the company, and not for the credit of the idea, you'll be a step ahead on getting your solution implemented.
Two teenagers were just picked up by the kent state campus police department for being 'lamers', and 'campers' in Quake.
They will be attempting for the death penalty for such disasterous crimes.
I live in a country that's completely under Microsoft domination...
Especialy when most e-mail from people arrive as a MS-Word attachments, or they use Excel for making even a silly, simple list of items. Its also hard when 90% of the web sites from that local country are 'designed for IE5+ and above'.
Sounds a hell of a lot like the US. Are you sure you aren't from Israel, Ohio?
Seriously, though. I see your concern. You either have to eat it and dual boot, or use virtual machines.
I'm no lawyer, so this is a question...
What happens if you put in a quarter, pull the slot lever, and the slot machine breaks?
Can you somehow sue, under the assumption that that particular pull of the slot machine lever could of possible hit the grand prize?
If this is so, I'm going to hit vegas as soon as the NT slots come out...
Slashdot Mirror
Ever play a video game full of puzzles... like Resident Evil? Play for about 2 hours getting through all those tough puzzles, then forget to save, and the game crashes? :-P
You spend a good 30 minutes cursing, and hitting your head against the wall, then you start back up. You get back to the spot you were and save the game. How long did it take you? 30 minutes. Why? Because you knew every single solution to every problem along the way.
If our systems were destroyed, we wouldn't have to go through that period with vaccuum tubes, we'd go straight to transistors (thank god). We'd not have to figure out how to go from a 286 chip to a 386. All this info is in books, and we'd have the knowledge of every hookup and the solutions to those hookups throughout the revolution of the information age.
I think we'd be back up and running in no time. It wouldn't be overnight, but it wouldn't be more than 5 years. This isn't bad considering its been like 50 to get to where we are today.
Now keep in mind that I'm assuming that banks and stuff like that would go on uninterupted, which is a biiiiig assumption, but it wasn't mentioned in the question, so I'm assuming
--
90% of jobs can be done by either a CSc or a CEng, and 5 years after you grad it won't really matter, it'll be your exerience that counts.
The question is, what are you willing to do in those five years?
CompE's tend to get better jobs with better pay. Its a bit easier to get the job you want with the engineering degree, but not impossible to do with the CS...
And on the math comment posted in the replies, most CompE's have to take an additional 2 whole math classes to get their minors (I got mine).
--
I'm a programmer. Been so every day of my life. I chose CompE over CS and IS. It wasn't easy, because CompE is a lot of electronic work. However, learning to be any type of engineer requires you to learn (more like pounded in your head) how to be a pristine designer. Learning stuff like OOP, UML, and design patterns are easier. CompE's can make design documentation in their sleep.
When you get out in the real world, you don't sit and code every hour of your job. You have to look at your requirements every morning and make design changes based on your requirement changes. Sure you code most of the day, but the important stuff is the design you do every morning. Trust me, when it comes to coding, its better to be a good designer than a good coder. And, as you probably know, if you code all day without design, it usually results in wasting hours of coding something that isn't a requirement, where as if you spend that extra hour every day designing, you hardly have to go back on work you've already done.
CompE is the hardest computer degree... requires a ton of math and sciences, but its better to go through 5 years of hell and be set for life than breeze through 5 years, and spend the next 10 years proving your worth.
--
absa-posa-lutely! I am in complete agreement.
The decrease *AND* increase of the music industry cannot be attributed to Napster unless we compare it with the same data at the same time period without Napster's influence.
I'm really sick of these reports, even if they are pro-Napster. Its just bad analysis. If you are going to use statistical analysis, USE IT CORRECTLY!
--
I could go on and on explaining the validity of this quote, but instead I'll just use it. I found it when I moved from a bad job to a good one:
We do not live to work; We work to live.
Now I don't suggest you find a place to work, then find a job... but if you have a large assortment of offers, environments of your personal life should be a large factor in your decision.
--
My dog has something like this. Its zaps'em if he tries to run outta the yard.
I guess it -is- a successful way to maintain your customer base....
--
In high school, just watching what an engineering job *is* is a learning opportunity. But there are 2 truths you must understand.
1.) Co-ops -ARE- cheap labor. They hire you as an employee at a lot less rate than college grads. You get experience (and trust me, you get experience just making coffee if you are exposed to how the corporation works), and they get cheap labor. Its how the world works.
2.) Entry level jobs (even engineering) is a lot of tedious, repetitous tasks. Especially in large corporations. Only after a few years of that do you get to do interesting work. Its something we all go through.
Take this as a learning experience when you get to college and co-op as a college student, take a job in a smaller company (like 100 employees) and you'll have a slightly more interesting job experience. Always do 110%, because employers recognize that with more interesting jobs.
Oh, and kudos on co-op'ing. You'll find yourself a much more desirable possible employee with co-op experience.
--
I was going to make the same comment, but since you beat me to it, I'll just add to your comment.
Anyone want to make a quick buck? Make a FPS with online capabilities that has great graphics. The end.
Doesn't this bug any of you? ID *used* to make innovative games (they invented the FPS). Now they are just the company that comes out with the newest FPS engine. Why not use the 'sacrifice' engine? I don't think the "greater polygon" is needed as much as the "full outdoor feel" that is used in sacrifice (sacrifice.net for the webpage, btw).
From the previous posts ran yesterday, I think that ID needs to stop worrying about adding polygons, and start worrying about what totally new innovations haven't the gaming community seen.
--
Is this to compete against cyber-cafe's? They were the first to start using broadband and computers to get business...
I know there is a cyber cafe next to the university I went to. It got its business by charging by the 1/2 hour to play quake on their network (which was hooked to the internet). We all know competing against people is more fun, especially if its a lot of people (64 player quake2 games, for example).
--
Before I am flamed, lemmie make myself clear on my terminology to fall in line with the story: :-P
Innovation = Technology
Creativity = Innovation
Innovation to me always meant the wonders of current technology.
I'm an engineer, not an english major
--
Here's the opportunity "Garage" game developers have to get their games out on the shelf. Here's the problem:
Why can't you have innovation AND creativity?
Lets look at some games that showed some serious creativity (expect lotsa Spector):
Thief. Sure the graphics weren't Q3, but it *was* 3D. It was a 3D shooter without the shooting.
System Shock Series. Here's a real killer to the theory presented. It took a 2D RPG and made it a FPS. It took creativity and added innovation, which made it an absolutely excellent game.
Deus Ex. Take an innovative game, with a creative plot, and make it open-ended. A success!
You see, innovative games can (and are, for that matter) creative. The problem is that the kiddies just want their Quake fix and kill their buddies. This means low profits for the creative games. Which is another reason how this theory will fail (who's going to play them?).
Sure PONG, breakout, and tetris are fun, but when you can have fun with innovation, its just more attractive...
--
I think the real key to making a game isn't making a hell of a plot, and expect people to ignore the gameplay, nor making an excellent gameplay, but no plot...
The first, and foremost key is making the game 'fun'. But I find this to be an opinionated and useless term.
The real key is putting in a 'balance'. Halflife (which is going to be overused in this whole discussion) made an EXCELLENT balance between plot and action. There was no real "You killed X number of monsters, found X number of secrets, etc...", because your goals were "get the hell outta that lab", which screamed plot (not to mention how every npc interacted with you). But the action part was balanced because there really wasn't 'levels', it was 'chapters', and it was very continuous.
Another example would be System Shock 2. It was a first person action game, just like any other. WRONG! It was breath-takingly scary. The well written plot, with the errie sounds, with the constant action (either stompin aliens or running for the hills) made such an excellent combination, it was a sleeper hit over Q3.
Now you don't need to have an intricate plot (like SS2, HL, Deus Ex, etc...) to balance the game, take 'theif' for example. It had a minor plot, but the action was also minor. It still was a great game (not to mention genre breaking). How could someone like a game that was only 'minor' in plot and action? Well, honestly, I think it was the 'breaking the genre' that did it, but it wouldn't be fun if it was all action and no plot or vice versa.
This is why Oni will be a breakthrough game. Combine action, 3rd person, and fighting games, and you got a new genre. But it has a story the works right alongside the action.
--
If you compare games like quake and UT to games like Halflife, Deus Ex, and System Shock 2, you'll discover that a carful mix of action and plot can make the game. I think it's the right combination that's the key here. Any game that is all action (like Quake), and any game that is all plot (like Metal Gear) doesn't quite compare with those that have both.
Another point to bring up is with online games. If its a team game, you kind of make the plot as you go along. When people assume specific roles (even if its just 'sniper' or 'offense' and 'defense') it kinda makes its own plot. These can be very exciting games (just look at how tribes grew).
--
So its appropriate to start worrying about the 'grey ooze' now, correct??
Moderators: This is not a troll. The grey ooze is a term for corrupt nano-bots that create too many replications until it suffocates our air.
--
This is coming from the company that is trying to patent the human being "Peter Norton" (keep in mind he hasn't touched the code for the Norton utilities for several years)... What do you expect?
--
Nothing, but its still GPL code, therefore it goes the other way too. Now would you go to a free server, or pay for one when the code is the same?
--
Check out the skins and spraypaints for games like counter-strike, tribes, and Q3 (the amateur ones). Sure you may not attract hundreds of good artists, but you're sure to get a few really good ones.
--
But we are forgetting the golden rule of the GPL. There will be (in theory) hundreds of coders, artists, and designers working on the free server, which should make it a better game than the pay-servers.
Want an example? How about Linux vs. Windows?
--
This is just like pay-per-play muds.
There will be tons of people that will grab the code and create a free-service server, and everyone will hoard to that instead of the pay servers. Why play the pay servers when the free ones are just as good??
I don't see GPL'ed games working in the business world for this very reason. I know a lot of people will disagree... trust me, I don't like it either, but that's the way it works.
--
Citizens in the United States have freedom of speech, religion, and press only if it complies with the following subclauses:
There are 456,326,563,743,445 subclauses, do you want me to list them all?
Seriously, though... How can you truely tell me that these WIPO rules aren't a direct violation of the first amendment??
--
I agree with this, and allow me to add to this. With experience in the workforce, you gain experience on how to present your solutions. There are techniques on making it appear that your boss came up with your idea. That way your idea will take shape. But are you willing to allow your boss to take the credit for the idea?
You see, usually the problem is that people want credit, not their solution solved because it is good for the company. You may not fall into this category, but it is a very typical problem. If you have the frame of mind that makes you want your solution to be implemented for the good of the company, and not for the credit of the idea, you'll be a step ahead on getting your solution implemented.
--
Two teenagers were just picked up by the kent state campus police department for being 'lamers', and 'campers' in Quake.
They will be attempting for the death penalty for such disasterous crimes.
--
I live in a country that's completely under Microsoft domination...
Especialy when most e-mail from people arrive as a MS-Word attachments, or they use Excel for making even a silly, simple list of items. Its also hard when 90% of the web sites from that local country are 'designed for IE5+ and above'.
Sounds a hell of a lot like the US. Are you sure you aren't from Israel, Ohio?
Seriously, though. I see your concern. You either have to eat it and dual boot, or use virtual machines.
--
I'm no lawyer, so this is a question...
What happens if you put in a quarter, pull the slot lever, and the slot machine breaks?
Can you somehow sue, under the assumption that that particular pull of the slot machine lever could of possible hit the grand prize?
If this is so, I'm going to hit vegas as soon as the NT slots come out...
--
For the same reason I don't play Rugby.
I like my teeth where they are.
--