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Auto-Suicide for Grey Market Electronics?
Atomic Snarl writes "For those of you breathing fast and hard about user rights after the purchase, what would you think if your TV/VCR/Cellphone/Dishwasher would die if you moved it out of an "authorized usage area?" Got a great boom box bargan on your last visit to Hong Kong, but now it won't work in Cleveland? Yuk! Read the New Scientist article to find out about a GPS chip design intended to kill your unit if it isn't supposed to be marketed in your area!" The implications are wide-ranging and unpleasant.
Hey, sorry to jump in with an Offtopic post (how ironic!) but I was curious about your sig:
Moderating trolls and flames as "Offtopic" is Unfair and will be metamoderated as such.
You're only referring to trolls and flames that are actually Ontopic, right? That is, if they're Offtopic along with these other shining qualities, it doesn't matter which you pick, correct? I don't really understand why you care what anyone calls it. It's a nice distinction, but is it really that important? I guess the way I see it is this: Crap is crap. If nothing else, I'd prefer my post be Offtopic and insightful than being Ontopic and a troll or a flame. Which, I guess, is what I'm hoping this post is.
Goodbye, USA, that's what.
Mind you, no-one outside the USA would particularly miss it.
A number of companies make very small, very cheap GPS receivers which are meant for OEM-style use in other devices. SiRF makes a number of tiny, inexpensive receivers; here's a picture of one the size of a quarter. I believe Motorola's GPS division makes a very small Oncore receiver as well.
I agree, it should also kill you for being anywhere near a computer.
shitfucker
See how well they sell after that!
- 1 chip broadcasting appropriate GPS signal at much higher strength than local satellites
- 1 watch battery
- 1 drop of superglue
Presto! You have created a small zone of Hong Kong around your Hong Kong-only stereo. (And rendered all the normal GPS devices for a thousand yards useless, but hey...)I always thought the American environmental regulations controlling toilet flow creating a black market in old toilets was the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of
What? Coud somebody elaborate on that?
__
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Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
Isn't "autosuicide" redundant? Pleonasm?
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Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
And now your 5 point bonus question: Why is DVD-Audio region coded?
GPS is a one way technology. There is no return frequency, no two-way communications, and no possible way to use GPS by itself to monitor you.
Now, if they were to equip every single little gadget and gizmo with a radio transmitter, you'd be right to worry. But if you continued to support any manufacturer that used such a device, I'd blame you for being the idiot.
Only on slashdot can a posting be rated "Score -1, Insightful".
Small Countries big time I have many friends that come to the US to buy items becuase they are cheaper here that back where they live(The Caribean). This will hurt alot people who like to do thier shopping overseas because it is cheaper.
Since it has already been mentioned in this discussion that a GPS reciever is pretty expensive, I'm pretty sure that they will go with the other possibility. So what happens when someone drives around the neighborhood broadcasting the signal from China?
The only difference between PAL and SECAM is in the colour coding. You can watch any one on the other and you'll get perfect image (in grayscale) and sound.
May contain traces of nut.
Made from the freshest electrons.
For example, would they want to disable all of my electronic equipment because I moved from the USA to New Zealand? (Yes, I have a power transformer).
People don't usually settle down in the same communities anymore. Setting vastly different price points is something that just won't work anymore, and believe me, companies DO try to exploit people based on Geography:
A Palm Pilot IIIxe is $149 USD ($320 NZD) in the USA.
A Palm Pilot IIIxe is $799 NZD in New Zealand.
This is honestly the silliest thing I've ever heard. Not only would this piss off an enormous amounts of consumers, but we're in a free market!! Unless a company like Microsoft who has a virtual strangle hold over the OS industry (for laymen atleast) attempted to do this, a competitor would immediately market the exact OPPOSITE. This is a non-issue, made up in someones head, who obviously does not understand market economies.
One quibble: the issue is not what webster's defines a cartel as, but what the law and legal precedents have defined a cartel as. I'm not sure how different that is, but I can tell you that not every cartel gets zapped by the government.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
I imagine in this case marketing had a hand too...
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
We have no entitlement to these products. Neither are we forced into buying them. We weigh the stipulations, costs, and advantages of buying a product, we decide if it's worth it, and we buy it. If consumers don't know, and never find out, that a product is crippled to them in some way, then it doesn't matter that it's crippled in that way, because they're still getting what they paid for. If it is a problem, then do your research beforehand, and just don't buy it!
The whole idea behind a free market is that we're free to make buying decisions. If you don't like a product, it isn't trampling your rights, and it isn't big brother in the private sector. It's a company that makes a product that you don't like, and you don't have to buy. So you don't buy it. Where's the problem?
The sense of entitlement around here that product should be made your way or else it's somehow unjust never made sense to me. Corporations can force nothing upon you. The worst they can do is make a worthless product.
You buy a product under whatever conditions it is sold under. That includes something that cripples itself in certain situations. That includes DVDs that only work in certain regions. These are not hidden facts about these products--they're fully known, and when you choose to buy them, you choose to accept the conditions applied to them.
If you didn't know about it, maybe you should have read up about your purchase before you made it, especially for an expensive product. As a consumer, it's your job to know what you're buying, and decide whether or not it's worth it to you.
We've got ourselves a free market here. You're free to buy, or abstain from buying. Choose wisely.
This would seem to put a stop to the normal practice in countries that have GSM mobile networks. ie global roaming would cease to exist. The forsight of these companies really amazes me. I mean Motorola see themselves as THE premiere seller of mobile phones world wide and most of the world uses GSM and if you travel from Australia to Europe its nice to be able to take the phone with you.
On the upside how bout they put the GPS into the chip they make for landmines. Bingo problem solved as soon as it gets sold onto the next terrorist poof it refuses to work. Now that I can see as useful
This post is protected with Motorola technology. It may only be read in my cubicle.
*BOOM*
--riney
Fine....so I'll have her in YOUR bed then...
/an statistic/an accurate statistic/
Kevin Fox
--
Kevin Fox
I should be able, in this era of free trade, to go and buy my equipment where I can get the lowest price. If I can not do that, than the multinational corporations should not be able to shop for the lowest labor rates. Free trade should be free for BOTH the production and consumption sides to work.
:)
That and I want to be able to bring back cheap tequila from Mexico when I go
Just a dude. Stuck in IT.
I always thought that was a good idea. I'm glad somebody actually implemented it.
Of course, you realize that we Americans are just upset because the gummint is infringing on our God-given right to flush vast quantities of water for even a tiny little pee. Hey, it's in the constitution!
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
- What are you expect?
I are expect that all your base are belong to us.
You have no revolution make your time.
Whilst this idea, as given, is severely brain damaged and will in all likelyhood get no further, there is at least one good use of the technology - anti-theft.
Now a VCR or TV which I could tell to only work within the locale of my house would be a strong deterent to theft. Of course, to work it would have to be one-time programmed with the local coordinates and need to be integrated at the level of the silicon (and how would it be reprogrammed if you moved?) but its a thought. Combine it with a cheap GSM phone design and it can even phone you up and tell you where it is.
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Actually it is rocket science...
Yeah, I used to work at Progessive.
The uncrippled price goes up. Way up if very few people opt for anything other than the cheap version.
'cept, of course, the region garbage on the DVD don't break it.
Don't ask. Go see.
Hmmm. Here is Oz, we manage to get by with dual flush systems with 3ltr/6ltr split. 3ltrs for number ones, 6 ltrs for number twos. Although I must admit that the occasional floater requires an extra 6 ltr flush.
Still, better than the hoover dam quantities used by the traditional US style dunny.
MrCreosote Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump! "You're right! There isn't enough room to swing a cat in here!"
I reckon this would be way cool. Put one on G.W Bush, as the rest of the world should be protected from your obvious flirt with insanity.
There are none as blind as those who will not see.. (unknown)
Uh, who has the power here? Consumers do.
Just don't but it.
One little thing you forget about GPS, the military can totally shut off the civilian signal. They did that during the time Bush attacked Iraq(The first time, not Bush v2.0 attacks)
So tell me again how a U.S. law is enforceable against a transaction that took place completely in Japan?
But what Motorola is trying to support is the engineering of a price difference through technology, not a natural price difference sustainable by market forces. If this sort of thing isn't soundly rejected by consumers, what little faith in the intelligence of humankind I have left will be gone.
In Yahoo's case (in which I personally think the French government is way out of line morally), they are suing based on a French endpoint (the potential French purchaser who I guess was nostalgic, pining for the old days of jackboots and the Vichy government before America came and rescued them, which they repay by suing an American company . . . but I digress :).). The example of buying a self destructing Walkman in a Tokyo store has no U.S. endpoint, so I still don't see how a U.S. court could hear the case.
Make your own pseudo satellite (hell, you can *buy* them) and cause every apppliance in the neighbourhood to break by convincing all the appliances that you are in downtown Zambolutu.
:o)
Watch people trying to program VCRs now displaying in other languages...
It's also possible to build a transmitter that does DoS attackes (jams) the real GPS satellites, look in last year's New Scientist for how to do that. Damn funny if they refuse to work unless they can see GPS.
Xixx.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
Kinda insane, don't you think?
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I have no sig at all.
I thought something like that. What if you live near the border that separates a region from another, and that distance is so small that the GPS might misunderstand what region you're in? For that and a billion other reasons, I think this scheme is pure bullshit. Instead of just developing ways to stop piracy, they could stop raising prices, which would help a lot more.
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I have no sig at all.
I think that was his point, if the system is designed to be default-inoperative without a signal, it will never work. Loss of signal is just too common and unavoidable in some cases for that to be acceptable to anyone to buy.
And, if your neighbor jams your signal, what are you going to do about it? Assuming you figure out it's them doing it? Obviously, making a device inoperative without a clean GPS signal is utter bullshit that will never happen, or at least make any money. Nobody will buy crap like that unless they are unaware of the GPS shit.
You funny man!
- - - - -
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
What you fail to note is that it also means that the people in Kentucky will have a lower price. The end result is that the product can be made affordable to diverse peoples while maintaining some level of profitability to the company. This is not necessarily bad.
The problem arises when that regionality also reduces competition (e.g. airline situation) and there is no impetous to offer decent prices in each locale.
It is my sincere hope that Slashdot will stop jumping at every New Scientist article that tickles their ears. Here are some examples of the crud they actually publish:
/. takes seriously a source that is either panicy or 'gee-whiz!' in most of it's articles. Just because it sounds cool (or very, very bad) doesn't mean it's got much of a basis in reality.
/. staff posted it, I'm *sure* they checked it out to make sure that it's valid, right?
Armed and ready
They say walls have ears, and now they're about to grow robotic limbs
Organ failure
Transplanting animal organs into humans may prove too difficult and risky to ever develop, says a new report
Lighter fuel
A shuttle that makes its own fuel could take off from your local airport
Cracking up
A material that heals its own cracks could benefit anything from mobile phones to aeroplanes
Smarty pants
First it was wings, now sanitary towels are going interactive
Anti-social Samson
The Biblical strongman suffered from the earliest recorded case of antisocial personality disorder
Name that tune
Sing a half-forgotten song to your computer and it will name it, thanks to new software
Push-button pleasure
Electronic implants may help women who cannot orgasm any other way
It's almost amusing that
But then, if
Got a great boom box bargan on your last visit to Hong Kong, but now it won't work in Cleveland? Yuk!
Yeah. I am pissed that I live in Cleveland too!
Nothin that a soldering iron and a pullup won't fix... till they integrate it into an ASIC.
When will the nonsense end? Just gimme good prices on stuff and I won't import it. Basterds!
There may be cases if this is implemented where you are in a legal area but the chip can't receive a signal. They would have to come up with a workaround.
my hobbies include space walks, ether chugging contests and marathon sleep contests.
And the music track, with the funky '70 "wikka wikka" guitars and the "boom-chiss-boom" drums.
www.eFax.com are spammers
Holy cow. I missed that one.
/knew/ those intellectual property attornies would find an angle in there...
Toast is a derivative work, and obviously the intellectual property of ACME, Inc.
Somehow I just
*scoove*
Not only the cooperative v. competitive economy, take a look at the "cooperative" contribution to internation relations. Compare the progress France and Germany had to the Serbs and Croats.
Oh wait...
DB
Ah, but here's the rub, if this offends you, you can keep your potential competition around as a threat pretty cheaply. This drop prices to drive out competition theory only works if the competition stays away long enough to recoup your lost profits and your lost reputation.
In any area where the entry costs are low, it just doesn't work. News flash, other than for government controlled goods, entry costs get lower over time and generally are quite low.
DB
Philly to New York is just about the practical limit. I actually met 4 people who did that daily commute. It was really sad, 2 hrs+, each way. It would be 6+ each way from Philly to Boston.
DB
I always thought the American environmental regulations controlling toilet flow creating a black market in old toilets was the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of, just wait until we see old analog A/V equipment becoming more and more of a prized possesion, so people can make reasonable use of the products and software (i.e., music, movies, etc) they buy.
For toilets, you can always go to Canada where they are legal and the US customs office can't stop their importation because of NAFTA.
The world is truly bizarre. But then, there's the sugar market which is even worse.
DB
Of course, your drop in demand is currently being blamed on Napster by the RIAA.
DB
Cartel inspired lawsuits are only a winner when you don't have a loser pays system. The US doesn't have such a system. The trial lawyers love this because they get to blackmail people with the threat of crippling lawsuits irregardless of merit. If the MPAA/RIAA had to pay defendents legal expenses if they lost as a rule, there would be far fewer examples of this kind of aggressiveness through lawsuit.
But the most common way that cartels enforce their agreements is to buy politicians and get them to use their force to kill off competitors. That's why politics is so important. Without politicians that are willing to sell out the country for money, cartels are largely powerless and become irrelevant.
DB
A little side note, you and the rest of the boycotters are currently being categorized as Napster inspired pirates and used as an exhibit on the evil effects of Napster by the very corporations you are protesting.
DB
Good luck getting your digital camera to output digitally to a computer. EU has the same problems (perhaps more), it just screws over different groups.
DB
The benefits of globalization are pretty neutral but the corps are pushing certain aspects of globalization that benefit them and attempting to hold back others that would benefit the consumer. Unfortunately the 'consumer advocates' instead of pushing for the globalization aspects that would help the consumer, just protest against globalization period. A huge mistake, that we're all paying for.
DB
More and more people are starting their own companies just to take advantage of the business only breaks that are everywhere.
An america as you describe would be left with few or no employees, only independent contractors. It would be an interesting world.
DB
I thought that the new digital TV signal is universal. Manufacturers want to control marketing on *their* schedule, not on the political decisions of various national standards bodies.
DB
In Europe, they don't let firewire cameras send to computers for copyright reasons. The hardware is all there but to sell to that market you have to nEUter them via software.
Of course there is a brisk business in wiping the software on the black market.
One other thing you should remember, the rest of the world subsidizes at a rate and with a scope that is simply breathtaking. Cheap deals are often due to tax subsidies, expensive ones to tax penalties but it's often very hard to figure out which government is at fault.
DB
Couple this with the guts to a Motorola cell phone, then forge a little deal with DoubleCLick, the US Census data, and the Cellular telcos, and POW! The ultimate in customized advertising.. Hmmm, you've got a lot of nice stereo equipment, but you live in a rough neighborhood, I think maybe we should start streaming ads for home security products.. Good stuff..
Implant one of these chips in someone's pacemaker so they can't leave the country (or the state) without leaving this world. If they guy doesn't need a pacemaker then inplant a pace-destroyer (in planted electric chair?) to do the same. Great way to keep prisoners at bay without putting them in jail.
Or you could point some antenna's (antennae?) at your neighbors and make their locally licensed dishwasher think it was sent to Iraq...
Can someone explain the rationale for dvd region codes? (Aside from the obvious answer of "money" :-(
As I see it, it goes like this:
Movies come out here before in some other countries (say, all of Europe). If DVDs from here could play in Europe, people would have DVDs WAY before they were released. Which would do damage, rather serious damage, to the profits of the MPAA.
(Ok, well, I tried not to mention money)
-- Bill "Houdini" Weiss
No way, the EULA's bundled inside the toaster so by the time you read it, you're already screwed.
Maybe we should all just start making our own electronics.
Microchips and all! It should be easy! (sarcasm)
Furry cows moo and decompress.
I don't see how come somebody could pull something like this and force everybody to buy it if they don't have a Microsoft like kind of monopoly.
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HTML is obsolete. It's time for a new, simpler and richer markup language.
Let's not forget that manufacturers should have the right to manufacture whatever they want, in whatever way. If they want to manufacture equipment that only operates under certain conditions, that should be their right. If they want to manufacture goods that only work when the moon is full, that is their prerogative.
If consumers want to be suckers and purchase their products with knowledge of such restrictions, they should do so at their own peril. Of course, they should be fully informed of what they are purchasing. The shouldn't be driving across the border only to discover then that their GPS-enabled pacemaker isn't authorized for use in the country they're entering.
The flip side of this argument is that anyone should have the right to do whatever they want to a product they purchased. If I want to figure out a way to interface my DVD player into my toaster, as long as the DVD player and the toaster are my property, I should have this right.
This goes for resellers as well. Resellers purchase products from a manufacturer in quantity. If they want to modify this equipment en masse prior to resale, they should be free to do so unless encumbered by contractual obligations. Again, they need to disclose what they are selling to consumers - something different than what was originally manufactured.
Finally, there is the most important issue: the law. The law must not keep us from modifying what is our own property. More and more, individuals and corporations are learning how to manipulate the law and lawmakers to their own advantage. This is having an enourmously detremental effect on individual liberty.
To sum up:
To look under the hood of your car should not be a crime. To tell others how to modify their own property (e.g. deCSS) should not be a crime. To modify your own property should not be a crime.
Everything else is fair game.
My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead, and that's the way I likes it!
Why the hell should you be allowed to restrict supply AFTER it has been paid for.
I can't wait for the days when we give out currency that can only be used in one place for products we can only use in one place.
Enjoy your gift certificate at Walmart which I'd be happy to give out for your Los Angeles only cell phone.
Have a nice day.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
Well it doesn't have to be a full blown GPS. A regular GPS unit has to be accurate within a couple yards. This only has to be able to tell what country your in. Thats fairly easy.
I don't think this will really catch on. THere would be such a huge out cry against, at least I know I will be crying. Besides, GPS is nice, but not 100% accurate all the time. What happens if you buy a new TV at the local Best Buy, theres a sun flare, and all of a sudden your TV dies because it thinks it is 14,000 miles away? I do think its a good idea in the military respect, especially weapons. Program it so that missle A can only be launched within 15 miles of XXXX. That would work nice to stop (or at least curb) arms trafficking.
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Looking for hardware (Currently need: Large Etch-a-Sketch) Have one? See my journal!
So how about a warning label. Say, require that 10% of the external packaging display a warning label indicating in plain, simple, short language that the product you are purchasing is limited to the region you are purchasing it in for use?
If you think that's outlandish, it's exactly what the DVD industry is RIGHT NOW (except the GPS part, and that's probably only a matter of time).
There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
I agree, with you, but remember: the US is primarily about freedom. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. We are always finding abuses in the business and government spheres which need to be stopped or even punished. And because we pay so much attention to these abuses, it's possible to get a very unpleasant perspective on America. But the whole reason we're free today is that people have been constantly impeaching, investigating, convicting, and punishing the same kind of entrenched criminals who are now trying to enforce their market segmentation.
The garden of freedom will never be perfect. We need an independent press and judiciary to constantly weed it of people like the MPAA/RIAA/Doubleclick. Although I think the gardening implements should become a bit sharper and more destructive. I would greatly enjoy seeing Hilary Rosen face a firing squad, as a lesson to other corporatists.
Wasn't that Hober Mallow?
"Mallow, Hober. Master Trader from Smyrno and first of the "Merchant Princes". Negotiated a trade agreement with the Commdor of Korell, Asper Argo, while working as a agent for the Foundation. Indicted for the murder of an Anacreonian Priest on Korell, but was acquitted after he demonstrated the the priest was really a member of the Korellian Secret Police. Overthrew Jorane Sutt and became Mayor of Terminus. Changed Foundation foreign policy away from the Priesthood and toward free trade. "
All opinions are my own - until criticized
I don't see how this can last for much longer, however... most of the corporations who demand the new restrictions are in the usa, and -for better or for worse - the us is one of the more litigation-happy nations on earth. Somewhere, sometime (maybe even the 2600 decss appeal) the concept of this new level of control will probably be judged untenable.
-enough jkatzing for today. back to osx!-
With all the problems medium quality GPS has indoors (especially in cities, etc) I think think any GPS reciever that could be put into a cheap boombox would probably have even more trouble.
Click here to read too much about my personal life
I'm always cracked up by the stickers holding CD boxes closed stating 'by breaking this seal, you agree to...'
Fine.
I break open the CD case leaving the seal intact. Even if what's writted on the seal _is_ binding (and it probably ain't, though that's probably never been tested, much like most EULAs) it's not like it's hard to circumvent.
And as I own the CD and CD case (the physical media are the one thing you _do_ "own", in every sense of the word), there's no way I can be told off for breaking the case to get at the CD.
Sigh.
Why is that these days businesses seem to be stiving to find new ways to annoy their customers?
Why doesn't the gene pool have a life guard?
Hey - they're not 'foistering' this tech on you.
They're offering for sale. If you want to buy it, well, you pays your money and you takes your choice. Don't come bitching if it fucks up.
Don't want something like this? Don't buy it. Duh!
Why doesn't the gene pool have a life guard?
Only the Toaster 2000 and 3000 series are licensed for use with Pillsbury(R) Pop Tarts(R).
I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead.
The power for, say, GE to lobby congress for laws requiring all appliances to have tracking devices is diminished by the fact that most of these grey-market manufacturers are overseas.
And until Big Brother and the Thought Police finally take over, anti-consumer technologies like this simply mean more fun for us hackers trying to circumvent them!
-the wunderhorn
Karma: Bored. (Thinking about resurrecting the "Anyone else is an imposter" joke.)
When countries trade each one is better off because all prices fall. So what if one company in one country goes down, it can start up in an industry where that country has an advantage over the rest of the world. I forget the exact economics in all of this but trade makes everyone better off.
"You can now flame me, I am full of love,"
Mobile phones however, already have a system that is regional. The US uses a different system than europe (GSM), and (I'm not sure) there is probably a different mobile phone protocol in Asia. It's annoying if you actually live in other countries for longer than a month.
If you can't use the stuff you buy in another country in the country you reside in, then why would you buy it from that country -- simple, you won't buy it.
My redundant point is that something like this INHIBITS TRADE (DVD encoding also has to do with the subtitles available), and THAT IS NEVER GOOD. When countries trade, they are happy, and war doesn't happen. People like to have money and trade helps them to get it.
This GPS stuff will probably end up being the circuit city DIVX failure times 2. A little media coverage on how a GPS system could be used to track your location (whether true or not) would even furthur the failure of this product.
It's be fun to hack though.
Reminds me of Terry Gilliam's movie, "Brazil," wherein a major plot complication revolves around the "unauthorized" repair of a home air-conditioner.
the label is printed clearly on the side of the box and it says, "Will not work if taken outside of ," then it's really not that big of a deal, right? Because if it's clearly marked, then someone's just gonna manufacture a product that doesn't have region limits, and they're gonna mark it down as slightly cheaper and clean house. As long as they label it, it's not a big deal.
--
Peace,
Lord Omlette
ICQ# 77863057
[o]_O
The scary thing is that it sounds so real, so beliveable...
--
Real life is overrated.
The real question here seems to be who has ownership of the purchsed product. Up until now, with DVDs, software, and the like, IP rights were kept by the producers themselves. This new device threatens to bring this type of ownership to hardware, too. Isn't it ridiculous to say that if you buy a dishwahser you don't own it? It's a dishwasher. Or a stereo.
How absurd would it be to have only the rights to use the dishwasher? You can't "pirate" it (yet), you can't really use it illegitimately, it's not a crime to wash someone else's clothes, actions which have illegal parallels in IP.
This is only a small step, but I wonder how long it will be before consumers lose control over products altogether. Will we only be able to sleep in beds certain hours of the day? Use sofas only on weekends?
Big brother is watching. And he's coming for you.
I can see it now ~~~~ After a small GPS satellite glitch, millions of /. posters are unable to flame CowboyNeal due to their computers being fried.
Even flushing twice you are using less water than flushing once with the old toilets, 3.2 gallons vs. 5+ gallons.
A well-crafted lie appears unquestionable - Dama Mahaleo
Sounds a lot like region coding on DVDs. Take your DVD outside zone X, and it won't work any more.
This is far, far worse. DVDs aren't restricted to regions, they're restricted to DVD players set with the same region. If you moved to Calcutta, and brought your DVD player, you could still play your DVDs.
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Movies come out here before in some other countries (say, all of Europe).
But why? This may have made sense when physical film stock was moved around, but I doubt this happens now...Unfortunately, restraint of trade only applies to national laws under the WTO's jurisdiction. The process is carefully designed to benefit corporations, not people. At least the proposal to let corporations bring grievances directly to the WTO was shot down. (For now...)
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There is no sin except stupidity -- Oscar Wilde
This is another example of a corporate solution designed to stave off undesirable market activity that ends up hurting the consumer. Sure, to some extent the corporation has every right to set different prices in different locales. However, what right do they have to prevent an individual from moving those objects which they have legally purchased from one locale to another? In the increasingly global economy of today - it's hardly rare for those in certain industries to frequently relocate. How much fun would it be to have that nice new walkman you picked up while working in Singapore turn into a pumpkin upon your return to the United States. This sort of regulation belongs to those legitimately elected/appointed officials of governments -Not profit hungry corporate entities.
\Drew National Data Director, John Edwards for President
Combine this technology with the plastic-printed semiconductors and either the Tesla free energy system (IE, getting electricity "free" from radio signals, by use of a diode, a capacitor, and an antenna) or some sort of rotation-based solid-state power generation system (there must be something) and a high-tech battery, and you've got a hardware-based region-checking solution for DVDs!
Of course, it would never work, but it's so 1984.
--
ALL YOUR KARMA ARE BELONG TO US
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
So what happens when this whole GPS-tracking system locates an "intern chip" close to a "President chip"?
Groundhog,
Go ask the Bikura...
It would be just like that movie "Fortress".
Nobody should ever move, anyway.
--Perianwyr Stormcrow
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
Except in the case of NTSC vs. PAL and CDMA/TDMA/GSM/CDPD, etc., the fragmenting was haphazard and the result of different areas using incompatible standards.
Actually, in former East-Germany they used a different tv system (SECAM) than West-Germany (PAL) on purpose for political reasons (So the East Germans couldnt watch West German tv programmes)...
It's just a question of what nation would be willing to champion the cause. Clearly, not the US, since US companies have the most to gain and the from this sort of thing - maybe China? Wouldn't that be an irony - a Stalinist dictatorship and the tool of global corperatism get together to strike a blow in the name of free speech.
Also, has anyone considered using the WTO arbitration process against the CCS standard used in DVD's? It seems clear to me that CCS standard is an illegal trade barrier of the sort the WTO has the authrity to mitigate.
--
In spite of the suggestions and all the tests that I have made, I have not cavato a spider from the hole.
People will only take so much, thre is already alot of dislike about the DVD zoning system, but hte idea that every time you move state/country you need to buy a new/upgrade every electronic device in your house is crazy. For htose who travel it is insane, kinda defeats the purpose of a laptop if it only owrks iwhtin 5ks of your house dosne't it. Another point raised is that GPS dosne't work that well indoors causing all sorts of problems, as well as if someone tkaes out the GPS system, or a solar flare.....you don't get to wathc the superbowl, not a popular idea i'm sure.
You go to get gas, and it communicates with the pump, which calulates the fines, and you get a $472.25 bill. DOH!
That's when I load up the '66 chevy pickup and get the hell away.
"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there" - Will Rogers
My dog has something like this. Its zaps'em if he tries to run outta the yard.
I guess it -is- a successful way to maintain your customer base....
--
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
With at least one or two large cellphone providers in North America having announced plans to rollout GSM networks on top of their existing digital networks, the incompatibilities issue is disappearing. What will remain are policy-based roaming issues.
Actually, it would be easier for a position signal to be transmitted in a control channel. Of course, you would start to see boxes created to defeat this.
Look at memory prices over the last 10 years. Who would have thought that you could pick up 64MB of SDRAM for $25.
You're right.
That's some sweeeeet(and I mean sweeeeeeeeeeeet) tech right there.
Unless there's some type of three pence(cent), cheap knockoff route that they've decided to take - methinks I've heard this proposal before(late 80's) involving a network of radio transmitters (THAT plan was dumped for obvious reasons).
Anywho, I've got a question - if they can put 'em in Furbies, why do only the £30,000 BMWs have GPS?.
8)
Concrete analysis...
Exactly.
I have a shotgun, a shovel and 30 acres behind the barn.
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
The Auto Industry has been doing it for decades.
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
That's about it really. Don't these companies ever think they're just about to take things too far? I mean, now if you buy something, ANYTHING, it's not even yours to use as you wish. Even if it's safe, legal, and morally correct, YOU CAN'T DO IT BECAUSE IT WON'T MAKE US ANY MONEY!!!!!
What the hell is this planet coming to? Has consumerism finally killed the human race?
Or maybe I just WON'T move to Pakistan afterall...
"You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake."...Tyler Durden
I've got a (genuine UK market) Sony TV that copes with PAL and NTSC - specifically because I have a Japanese imported Saturn ;-)
--
--
ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!
If features like these are implimented I wonder howlong it would yake for them to be "Chipted" like the playstations were
--
The computer told me to press any key to continue,I pressed the one looking like this (|) !!OH SH*T!!
I'm surprised that nobody has been looking at these developments and decrying the fact that corporations are doing one of the things Mcarthiests were so worried about- destroying private property. While this isn't exactly the same thing, its similar. Many of the things we own these days are not really our possessions. Companies have started(Through EULA's, exploding GPS devices, etc) to make consumer purchases seem more like they're loaning the object to the consumer rather than the consumer gaining the right to the object that they purchasd. This means that when you buy something, you aren't gaining possession of private property- you are gaining possession of property collectively owned by yourself and by the corporation. Which, if you replace the word "corporation" with state, you have almost the situation that Mcarthiests so decried.
My $.02,
Alex Magidow
It's too bad that Washington D.C. (tm) is in the pocket of the corporations. If washington were listening to comsumers, laws like the DMCA and schemes like the DVD region protection would be history.
"just connect this to..."
BZZT.
Liberty.
If these things become mainstream (thus a popular nuisance), someone will come up with a workaround, such as a personal GPS jamming device that will simply bullshit the regionlocked phone/vcr/doohicky into believing it's still in its native region.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
Too bad they can't develop something like that for Bubba's pants.
Despite the cost of living, it remains popular.
I'm country A, and I've put a number of satillites into orbit for my military. A number of consumers living in countries that !=A are using this technology to go skiing and such. One day, a consumer electronics company suddenly hands me a weapon for free. They let me use the little switches on my satillites to deactivate all the TV sets in bad country B. All I have to do is tell my satillites to tell all those TVs that they are actually hanging out in country C. Sounds good to me. I would think that we have the technology...
For instance, I recently thought about purchasing a TV and discovered every TV had a V-Chip. I understand that there is some federal legislation that may requires this, but it still is annoying. Of course, the cost is past to the end user. Doesn't this fall under the unfunded mandate thing that the Republicans have been whining about for the past 5 years or so.
This new chip is the same thing. It will be forced upon the consumer, and, even if there is no cost increase, I doubt if the additional revenue generated will result in a decrease in end user cost. In other words, the end user will have to pay the same price for a product of arguably less value.
I think it is completely unfair to try to pin something this stupid & dangerous on a comparably benign hallucinogen such as LSD.
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
When are these people gonna learn the restricting your audience isn't gonna actually increase sales, and stop wasting their money researching crap like this?
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
Even if they manage to make a cheap but reliable gps chip that finds your location, the most it would do to would be illegal exporters is force them to pull out a soldier gun, maybe even a mod chip like the good old Playstation. Most likely the cost of the GPS system would be too high to make this scheme worth it.
Got Apathy?
Frankly, I don't support Napster. I know that's an unpopular position among this crowd, but I don't believe that it's ethically justifiable for people to treat themselves to unlimited use of other people's work without their (the artists') permission. Now, that hardly means I'm on the side of the corporations -- in fact, I think that the corporations are quite likely screwing themselves by being anti-Napster. But you know what? I also think it's their choice (and you know, both people and corporations have the right to make stupid choices!) since the songs are technically their property, and I believe that respect for property rights is fundamental to a civil society. Certainly I'm unhappy about the current dominance of the labels rather than the artists (who are the ones doing the real work), and I'm particularly upset by attempts to trample on legitimate "fair use" of copyrighted property. But my frustration doesn't legitimize the way many people seem to be using Napster. There are lots of things in this world that are frustrating, but that doesn't mean I'm entitled to just do whatever the f--- I feel like.
"Biped! Good cranial development. Evidently considerable human ancestry."
...of our worries. GPS is used in applications such as aircraft navigation, marine vessel location, emergency medical evacuation (some cars now have GPS systems that relay coordinates to police and hospitals when your airbags inflate), heavy machinery tracking, surveying, agriculture, and of course countless military applications (which is why it was originally developed). Sure, there are backup systems in place for many of these applications, but the commercial, governmental, and life-safety impact would be a heck of a lot more serious than the fact you can't play your new Britney Spears DVD.
"Biped! Good cranial development. Evidently considerable human ancestry."
Japanese companies have solved the problem of straying senior citizens -- track them by satellite. Local governments in Tokyo and Kikuchi City plan to test the device
Read about it here.
"Biped! Good cranial development. Evidently considerable human ancestry."
How close-minded and utterly uncreative of you. I certainly can, and I damn well will, vote with my dollars. If I don't like the terms that DVD players are being sold under, then maybe I'll buy books instead. If I don't like the terms that CDs are being sold under, maybe I'll go watch more live shows and support my local music industry.
Don't get me wrong: I think this GPS-bombing concept is a truly shitty idea. But if that's what stupid manufacturers want to do, I don't see why it's not within their rights to do so. Owning electronic devices is hardly an inalienable human right. I am under no compulsion to buy their crap.
By the way, you should brush up on your economics. "Charging different prices in different areas" is not synonymous with "fixing prices". In fact, there are cases where charging different prices in different areas (or more generally, to different customers) is good for both buyers and sellers, precisely because some buyers are willing to pay more than others.
"Biped! Good cranial development. Evidently considerable human ancestry."
Sure it is. Just look at the cooperative organizations ( mainly located in eastern Europe) and how well they fared against western economy.
But when you move to Singapore, you will have to fly back to London each friday to rent a disc that will play in your machine.
However, as suggested in the article, it is unclear whether this would be entirely legal everywhere, considering the severe free trade implications. There have, as you know, been discussions on this regarding DVD region coding as well.
IANAL, but I do not believe a scheme like this would ever be accepted in the EU/EFTA/ECC region. I won't make any bets about the US, though.
So, will this be compatable with the [urban legend] "warranty period over, de-activate" that is fitted to all VCRs as standard?
Oh, wait...
Nevermind.
--
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Today, the CueCat, tomorrow, the world!
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Obviously it (will) cost Motoral money to research, develop, and implement this technology. A cost that will be passed on to the consumer in one way or another. So the idea is to charge consumers more in exchange for crippling the product?
Hopefully someone has already patented this "business model" and will sue the holy bejesus out of them for infringement. I wish I had a spare 30 or 40 mil lying around... I'd try it just for kicks!
GATES: MOVE 'ALCHIN'.
I take drugs seriously.
GATES: MOVE 'ALCHIN'.
I take drugs seriously.
This is interesting...how hard would it be to broadcast fake GPS signals. This would be extremely dangerous (to a comnplete novice it seems that way at least). Is this a possible threat (airplanes going down and what not?)
Someone set up us the bomb!
Lasers Controlled Games!
The same will happen with all these purported GPS-enabled devices. They'll become predominant in the market-place, and they'll be hyped up with the 'gee-wizz' factor of a location-aware toaster and what not.. Maybe they'll sell this 'feature' as a means of 'protecting your property against thefot', or maybe just having a microchip in things will make sheeple buy them.
After there's enough market penetration, the crack-down against alternatives will start.
The REAL jabber has the /. user id: 13196
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
The REAL jabber has the /. user id: 13196
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
The REAL jabber has the /. user id: 13196
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
I buy a cell phone in Europe. I come to the US and buy the appropriate subscriber module. And the phone self-destructs because I'm no longer in Europe.
I can't say how much this disgusts me. It definitely falls into the category of "just because they can, doesn't mean they should."
I don't think I own anything that is grey market, but I would love to see one of these Motorola execs who can travel around the world buy a laptop in HK and have it not work here. This is an absolutely disgusting concept.
--
When you sympathize with stupidity, you start thinking like an idiot.
" We're sorry Mr. Hussein, but the missiles we bought from China will not explode outside of Iraqi airspace...
Lawyers.
Perfect application, ala electric fence.
You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
Free trade is not about freedom or gratuity.
Maximizing profits for a given situation is at best antisocial behaviour.Economics is not a science.
Progress is driven by cooperation.Think about it. Well meaning engineers and scientists develop a system where parolees and recovering alcoholics' cars can be deactivated automatically if they try to go too far in them. But then corporations puppeteering the government get it put into all leased cars so that you can't go over a certain mileage or distance limit.
And sooner or later all cars will have it so that the corporations can be guaranteed that people won't take an extra day off to go out of state on a fishing trip or visit their relatives. Nooo...it's a sin to be late for work. And for the strength and safety of the American enconomy and the American way, they must be at their jobs being productive till the very end. Long live democracy.
Just something to think about.
O'Toole's Commentary on Murphy's Law:
O'Toole's Commentary on Murphy's Law:
O'Toole's Commentary on Murphy's Law:
"Homo sum: humani nil a me alienum puto"
(I am a man: nothing human is alien to me)
My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
The ITC (or any other international trade group: UNCITRAL ) doesn't appreciate dumping, so any price change must be justified by cost, to a point. Granted, Sony would never be able to pull of the PS2 if they had to sell it for $700, but the price is roughly the same everywhere. Anyway...
As much as I hate this idea, it's really the right of the electronics maker to make whatever electronics they want, even if it does shitty stuff like this. As long as they are honest to the consumor about it of course.
Invariably, the masses will end up buying this stuff because 1. they don't know they should care and 2. how many people even move out of their home city, let alone state or country.
However, there will be a large group of people who hate this idea. Consider how many people read Slashdot. Add in all of the other technie sites. That's a pretty decent size community of freedom-loving techies. Techies have money. This is one hell of a market. My point is...
Why doesn't some entrepreneurial geek with IC clue start up an electronics company to sell geek-friendly shit? VA Linux? Someone else? I know Andover would invest in it. Hell, they already have thinkgeek, they could just pump their own geek electronics through it. Form the company in Dubai or some business-friendly and semi-stable place where the US/British/etc multi-nationals/conglomerates can't fuck with you and make your electronics with no GPS. Make your MP3 players with no encryption schemes. Make your HD's with no copyright protection. (Admittedly a trifle more difficulty to mfg than Mp3 players, but you get the picture.) Go forth and save the world while making a healthy profit at the same time. If the electronics were of good quality and stylish (Suck your pride and hire some actual artists, not geeks turned gimp users. NO, you can't design, you're a geek damnit.) I'd fucking buy every thing you offered.
"Error: You have moved your computer 5 feet from the original install location. This is a violation of your EULA. Windows will now crash"
Well they already have the last part down. Now to get the rest of it working
BZZZT! Wrong! I am entitled to the use of whatever I buy, under whatever conditions I choose. That is the only issue here. If this kind of thing is sneaked into the product without my knowledge, and I am attempting to use it and it becomes worthless, I'll fucking well have an issue with the manufacturer.
One day I feel I'm ahead of the wheel / the next it's rolling over me / I can get back on / I can get back on
TVs/VCRs/Cellphones/etc. already do this. NTSC vs. PAL takes care of TVs and VCRs. CDMA vs GSM takes cares of your cellphones. Sorry, the consumer looses again.
When VPNs are outlawed, only outlaws have VPNs.
All your appliance are belong to us!
"A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --
"A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --
GeneralEmergency
Digital WideScreen TV's in the UK have a smartcard slot in the set like the ones found in DVB satellite recievers, even if you don't want to subscribe to an OnDigital (like cable or satellite, but just thru an ariel), you still need a smartcard to watch the free-to-air BBC channels.
:/
:) neat.
The reason is to enforce licensing, however the SmartCard issued will only work with the transmitter in your area, so say you moved from Birmingham to London... the smartcard would stop working
The Sony WEGA DTV sets also have a PCMCIA slot
SO you can leave the GPS from you car at home and pay zero insurance?
Ideas like this disgust me. The scary thing is that most people are so stupid that they'll put up with it and let the rich corporate suits and politicians get away with this garbage.
Don't believe me? I'll stray from the topic for a couple of paragraphs. I'm staying in Southern California right now. As it turns out, there is a so-called "energy crisis" here. Often (within fractions of an hour), there are commercials on TV or the radio telling consumers to cut down on their power usage to conserve the precious resources we have. And people are responding. Stores and other buildings actually have signs proudly stating that they have dimmed their lights! I'd like to know where these so-called consumer advocates groups were when the SOB governor of this state and his suit friends raked in 5 billion dollars of the electrical company's dough, when all kinds of politicians' pockets were lined with greenbacks, and now they want to patronize the consumers?! Excuse my language but f*ck those sons of bitches!
Look at the gasoline prices in California. Several months ago, prices rose by about 30 to 40 cents a gallon. There was a lot of noise and many people got upset. Well, the anger has faded, people have gotten used to the prices and now the prices have settled at the high end since nobody complains anymore. Now, with electrical prices rising just like fuel did a while ago, the electrical company is forcing consumers to pay a 5 billion dollar tab, and guess what? I think that after the debt is paid, prices will simply stay high, making some rich people very happy.
It upsets me so much that people live with these things and don't do anything about it! Oh, how much I wish a bunch of people would get together and start a "refuse to pay" campaign. Get everyone in this state to use all the power they want and refuse to pay their bill. What would the electrical company do? Cut everybody's power? They would lose such a significant portion of their customer base that they would be out of business and you can rest assured that the federal government will get involved and electrical prices will be back where they should be.
Back to the topic of consumer devices... The only way to stop this is to make people stop buying things. What's wrong with repairing your existing refrigerator instead of buying a new one? You've already paid for it. So pay a little more and it'll run for another ten years before you have to repair it again. What's wrong with your existing consumer electronics? What kind of bullsh*t is this to put GPS receivers in products to disable them if they're used in a way the company doesn't agree with? Things don't look good if they're going in this direction. On a positive note, I know that within no time of a tagged product being released, some smart hardware crackers will figure out how to disable the offensive tag. Who needs to broadcast pirate GPS signals if you can disable the receiver on the product?
Anyway, I hope I've made my point. Folks need to stop putting up with things like this. And I'm not being a hippocrite or whatever when I say that: I don't agree with DVD and I don't own any products incorporating that offensive attempt at so-called technology.
It becomes harder and harder to believe what the big companies are willing to do to advance their positions. While in the United States we still make occasional noise in the courts about government intrusions of privacy, we are more than willing (or at least clueless) to let big corporations look right into our lives. Remember when the Pentium III came out? Half the people I saw interviewed didn't even care that the computer would now uniquely identify you over the internet. Most of them thought it was a good thing!
It seems to me a logical extension of logic to create a tranciever instead of a simple receiver in the product. Probably with the stated goal of catching smugglers. And nowhere in the article did I see anything about disclosure. Does that mean you won't even know your VCR is going to croak until you actually get that job in some foreign country? I hope this project dies the death it deserves.
political_news.c: warning: comparison is always true due to limited range of data type
Okay, this may seem logical, but perhaps it is due for a reminder: This stuff will never happen if we refuse to buy it. It will come to market, a few dopes will pick it up, and then some company, looking to get an edge on the competition because the prices are still so high that there is intense brand and feature competition, will remove the restrictions....hence increasing their sales. Other companies will follow suit. Now, if I could program the chips myself, that would be a great theft deterrent and a good way to make sure my teenage daughter doesn't take the car on a two hundred mile joyride some night. (god forbid I _ever_ have a teenage daughter) Now, she might complain about the privacy abuse, but I would then tell her to buy her own car. Such a device would probably lower both of our insurance premiums quite a bit too. But I want to be the one with control over it, not some corporation or the government.
I think this is a GREAT idea!
I can see it know, some high up motorola sales exec, with his company bought cellphone, an laptop, flying (private company flight of course because he is REALLY important) from the US to say the UK or Aus. is having a critical buisness conversation to some suit in Japan about something. Hes in a good mood, because his company decided to place thier GPS chipslayer on all motorolla based products to increase thier bottem line (aka he gets a fatter check).
Boom, our hapless exec flies across the international date line and suddenly his tech devices magicly turn in to paperweights and coasters. He looses his deal with the suit in Japan, and then suddenly, before he quite realizes what just happend, he dies of a massive heart attack because his company-paid heart surgery last year involved the implanting of the new high tech Moterolla Super Ticker 3000(tm) Pacemaker!
But dont feel bad for him though, because at least he doesnt know his plane is plumeting out of the sky because his company in its ever striving race to market poorly thought-out ideas also made his jets navigation system.
But at least our exec can die happily knowing those 5000 SuperGamingSystem 2 consoles he sold last week will never reach the shady streats of Beijing or Hong Kong, where they might be sold for (heaven forbid) les then maximum market value .
are you kidding, this is the best thing since sliced bread!
-RA7-
"Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds" - RWE
Imagine the police putting this in somebody's pacemaker to for house arrest! This disabler chip is a good implementation of a TERRIBLE idea currently used in DVDs and game consoles, though luckily it's too expensive for either. But I think people won't put up with it: people want to bring their electronics on trips and won't buy devices that prevent them from doing that (I hope). Besides, it's already too late to impliment this in music players. They may keep us from travelling with our electronics, but we already have fluid music thanks to Napster and friends!
I have to say that I'm proud of Europe for having it's collective head in gear that already makes this semi-illegal. And, of course, I'm hoping consumers don't accept these sorts of devices.
Fred
In Sum of all fears Ghosn was able to salvage the PLUTONIUM. The electronics were destroyed. Now imagine a GPS system that would destroy the plutonium over time...now that would be scary.
Maskirovka
"This TV will self-destruct if removed from the Indian sub-continent."
The whole thing is a pretty strange. How large of an impact is this gray market having? And what happens if the device can't get a good GPS signal? Does it err on the side of the corporation (shuts down) or the buyer (keeps working)?
-- "Sucks to your ass-mar"
The question is if the device will be permanently disabled after taking it out of the zone of if it will only be disabled while it's out of its zone.
Think of it this way, if they have a battery-powered GPS, all it needs to do is detect while it's on the truck to the store or your taking it home in the back of your pickup. It could permanently disable itself.
The global economy is a great thing until you feel it locally.
It just hit me what this would be perfect for.
handheld GPS devices!
Since when do you need special hardware to render Microsoft software useless? I've found that MS software renders itself useless after a certain period of time on most standard computers.
The ultimate plays for Madden 2006
- Think of how much harder it will be for someone to profit from stealing you physical belongings if they only work within your authorised location.
- Think of how much harder it will be for someone to fraudulently sell you stolen goods or illicit goods if those goods won't function outside their original location.
This is just an appropriate application of the sort of paternalism our governments have been engaging in for years.People are sedentary creatures by nature. Most people live in the same town all their lives -- the same town their parents and their parents' parents lived in. If you're never going to move, then you're never going to be negatively affected by this safety mechanism.
And if the majority of people won't be negatively impacted, whereas the minority of criminals will, then where's the harm? It's the same reason why we outlaw weapons of mass (and minor) destruction -- no law-abiding citizen has the need for a weapon, so it does no harm to deny that right to everyone in the aim of preventing criminals from using them.
It's an exciting future where software and hardware meld together and blur the lines. Soon we'll have sentient furniture, and the rest of these problems will pale by comparison.
If steps like these are necessary on the path to artificial intelligence and other exciting developments, then I'm all for them. We have to support companies now in the hope that they'll generate good later. That's what corporatism is all about and why it's enshrined in the US Codes and Constitution.
Read the rest of this comment...
always harnessed for the engines of evil?
Douglas Adams
1952-2001 :(
I can't explain the anger I feel when I see stories like this. I'm 20 years old and I didn't even start taking an interest in news and politics until I was 18. Before that, I had basically believed I was living in the heart of freedom, the greatest country in the world. I cheered when we protected Kuwait, and I joined in during the pledge of allegiance every morning at school. I know this isn't eniterly on topic, but I have an urge to express this feeling of utter betrayal I've had ever since virtues I saw in this country seemed to crumble and be replaced by lies. I heralded 'freedom' until I learned the term 'soft money'. Soon afterwards, what I believed to be our democracy began to look more like plutocracy. I remember how proud I was in highschool when I read about the statue of liberty -- "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breath free." I thought, how lucky I am to be a part of this. In my worst nightmares I never would've thought that the 'poor huddled masses' would be funding a $140 billion dollar a year program nicknamed 'corporate welfare' that subsidizes some of the richest companies in the world. And when I see this sort of organized crime not only existing, but thriving, I wanna wake up and have it all been a dream. When I see people accept it and go about their lives, with only their comment that 'someone will make a workaround' or 'things will work out for the best' I wanna scream until I find out why no one is as angry as they should be. I wanna take a baseball bat and smash hard drives for a living until every advertisers fucking demographics database is gone, until every lobbyist and greedy CEO is buried in sharp, pointy computer parts and begging for the medical care they refused to provide for their employees. Ugh.
What other types of suicide do you know, besides "auto"-suicide?
It's a pleonasm!
(please get a good editor/style-checker)
>The law of supply and demand is at best an anecdote
:) lol
Yes true, but it helps to define (outline) the topic.
>Free trade is not about freedom or gratuity.
Yes your right. It's about letting me trade with you at equal or simular tarrif's
>Maximizing profits for a given situation is at best antisocial behaviour.
Maximizing profits is the privalige you get when you have the upper hand or the better product or (best of all) a protected market. Are you sure Antisocial behaviour is the best results you get, I would think that you would get copycats and patent infringers. I think that people forget that markets do not like pricing distortions, sooner or later someone comes in and brings the market into line
Example: MS is now hounded By LINUX
forcing MS to rewrite the rules of the game by having new and different licenses, strong arming vendors, god only know's what's next from there camp.
Example : Belize land line phone system
protected market, controlled by 1 major provider, and has a government monopolly
Example: DEBEERS Diamonds
Had full control of the markets until the early 80's then PUFF(over 20 years ), they no longer have control of the princing BUT they have added new features to themselve. Higher quality control...Finger printing / laser Signing as added extra features to owning a Debeers diamond.
>Economics is not a science.
tell that to the Rothchilds, they are the one's that used cycle analysis of interest rates and made there fortunes with it (they killed off the guy whom discover it for them ). That's using local economics at it's best. Tell that to program traders that lock in the spreads and make a killing no mater which way the market moves. Tell it local Japanies that buy washing machines at a 30 increase from the consumer in USA and it's made in Japan. ( that figure is dated from 1996 so I don't know if it still exist ).
> Progress is driven by cooperation.
What type of progress? what type of cooperation?
Didn't Nobel discover Dynamite in his lab, by himself? and isn't dynamite one of the things that has progresses man faster. Didn't Bell do something simular.
I would love to pour you a drink one day and discuss this more, but would you split the bill or leave it all to me? got ya
ONEPOINT
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my web site artistcorner.tv hip-hop news
please help me make it better
if you see me, smile and say hello.
The law a supply and demand. It can be best played with this. I can restrict all supply to a given area and price respectivly to the market. What's wrong with that. Maximizing profits to the location.
... I'm rich ( at least until someone comes around and fills the need ).
Heck the only thing that's going to happen is my competitor will have to fill the demand for my product. But wait there is nobody to fill the demand
I truely think that this will bring further development in consumer products. Because, each manufactures will see the pricing models of other manufactures and if somewhere is way to profitable here come the competition pricing a bit more cheaply.
ONEPOINT
spambait e-mail
my web site artistcorner.tv hip-hop news
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I always liked reading his stuff, but his universe tended to be just a bit nicer than the one we live in. Many people now really aren't able to entertain themselves and would consider head piking acceptable. I'm sure we can count on the junior Senator from West Podunk to actually lead the mob. They won't be demanding their TV and stereos back, they will want blood for having been denied them
You either believe in rational thought or you don't
Well Duh! yourself
Motorola - the same fine engineering firm whcih came up with the idea of using encrypted digital signals to monitors (and next gen HDTVs) - is the company pushing this concept. Perhaps someone at Motorola is looking for a high paying job as a consultant to the RIAA like the former Congressional staffer that "corrected a typo" in theHome Audio Recording Act and made all recorded music "works for hire"?
Could that be why the subject line said "Buy Intel!"?
You either believe in rational thought or you don't
Cool now I can be tracked wherever I go. GPS chip in my remote, in my TV, in my computer. In my car. Good way to keep tabs on everyone at once! Oh, and I am being sarcastic. This is ludicrous! What a horrible way to turn a cool technology into something that controls, and closes "Freedoms". I'm sorry but I didn't buy something for it to become inoperable because I move to a new state or CANADA! hehehehe Technology is cool, I love it. But damn. Dont we all like being free? Isn't that why the world is trying to be a democracy!? Free Enterprise boys....emphasis on 'FREE' ie....not restricted. D*mn, when do we start paying for air to breathe!?
:-( --- argh. Despair, I owe again.
Let's think about this for a few minutes here. Sony has 'regions' for their games. DVD's have 'regions'. CD's have 'regions' and different formats! Granted some of these you can still trick into working but, why? Their should be no necessity to this. I'll tell you what, (never happen) boycott SONY, boycott MUSIC INDUSTRY in general, boycott DVD and entertainment industry in general. Do what they are complaining about in the news all the time. Use their media and material, stop actually buying it! I mean damn, though all these restrictions have increased and their whining about 'losing money' has increased. We like the idiot 'sheep' that why have been brainwashed into being have started buying more More MORE. We are brainwashed into thinking that we should all 'get along, come together'. How do 'regions' promote unity? How do companies get away with this? And why can't we count on our government to regulate this? Why do we actually put more faith in business than government? Where is the happy medium!? Things to ponder if you will.
:-( --- argh. Despair, I owe again.
It seems to me that if the major companies do take this idea up they would be creating an incredible opportunity for other companies who don't use the chip to fill in the gap and sell people things they want and give them the freedom they deserve, to be able to use their equipment whereever they are. What do they expect to happen when people go on holiday? Buy a new portable CD player or whatever for any zones they may be passing through?
I'm sure this will only lead to more and more
backyard "missile" launchers.
What percentage of American DVD purchasers do you think understand what region encoding is?
I'll guess 5%, for the simple reason that Region 1 is the motherlode both for producers and consumers. Why should Region 1 consumers care, they get the good toys. It's us poor saps in the rest of the world who get screwed over DVD. In Region 2 we typically pay 50% more for half the content delivered 3 months later - or buy Region 1 imports and cross our fingers that our hacked players won't spit them out.
So this is an interesting story, but it's just the thick end of the wedge shoving itself (unlubricated) up our cornchutes. The precedent for this was set years ago.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Isn't the whole point of using a cell phone to allow you to communicate when you are traveling?!
Wow! I can seen the visions in front of my eyes as I speak. I am worried about the nasty implications the submitter of this article mentioned.
Think about it. We have been reading in recent days about open source hardware and Apple trying to get an open source license for their software. We have been reading about the other side of that coin as well. About making all software limited time, so you are FORCED to buy upgrades. Not cool.
What's next? Someday, dishwashers come with licenses? End User Agreements? "By opening this box, you agree to..." You can fill in your own blank there. How about the end of Ebay? Or even more traditional, the garage sale? The end of collecting items from overseas as mementos of your trip? I can see it now; the end of souvenir beer mugs. How ridiculous can you get? What if I move from one place to another? I guess that means I have to sell all my things.
Even worse, does this mean that GE can now track my movements? Think deeper...they can track me, send me junk mail to my new address. Tell all there corporate buddies where I am living before I finish unpacking. Could it get any worse? What if you want to escape from someone? Can a PI use the chip in your washer to find you? Use the information from the chip to find out your habits? Could someone hack into the chip to find out info about you? A virus for your washing machine? Heck, with in home networks, all this information could be connected together.
And on top of all this evil, I can't think of a single good use for this technology. At all. Perhaps consumers won't go for this. I just want a toaster. Not a toaster that needs a firewall.
----------------------
Kurt A. Mueller
kurtm3@bigfoot.com
PGP key id:0x4FB5FB1D
Lawrence Lessig is my personal hero.
If I remember correctly, low-threshold speeding tickets (something like 15 mph over the speed limit) are not speeding tickets but are fines for "wasting a finite natural resource".
Although it sounds like this infernal little device is still only in the patent stage, it seems absolutely inconveivable to me that a company would even *think* about completely detroying their reputation with consumers by proposing such a device. I think the execs at Motorola must not have authorized the research that went into this chip, or they've taken a few too many hits of acid.
Despite what EULAs say, most software is sold, not licensed.
Why do people have to do that kind of stuff? now if we try too get a playstation 3 or 4 [ or whatever its gonna be ] its going to die! consoles are overrated anyway. im stickin with my good ol' pc.
that the whole point of capitalism was to allow ...
...
the ppl to buy the best product and thus
allow the 'natural' selection of
oh wait, thats right, the actual reason is to
allow the rich and powerfull to get richer
and more powerfull by controlling the middle
and lower classs. right then.
the tighter that you squeeze your fist, the
more systems will slip through your fingers
"Blake is an idealist, Jenna. He cannot afford to think." - Kerr Avon, Star One, Blakes 7
Tjis toaster is only compatible with
BREAD2000 (tm)
Why is it that "globalisation" is a great thing for the (1st world) corperates and governments, but as soon as it means cutting in to artificially set profit structures, a new technology has to be implemented to prevent what is effectively "consumer globalisation"? If corperates really believe in globalisation then they have no reason to implement this technology.
If the software industry was a car dealer, every major software publisher would be in jail for fraud. Misrepresenting a lease as a sale *IS* fraud in every jurisdiction in the country. It puzzles me how "content owners" can claim that they are protecting "property rights" when it appears to me that they are intent mostly upon removing *MY* property rights. The Constitution provides for copyright law. Copyright law grants "content owners" the right to restrict duplication and redistribution of copies, but does not otherwise infringe upon my property rights. But it appears that these bogus "shrink wrap" licenses (after-the-fact post-sales "click this" deals) are soon to be legally enforcible as the law of the land.
-E
Send mail here if you want to reach me.
When I began my electronics career 25 years ago, Motorola was the premeir supplier of semiconductor devices. They also made some of the finest VHF radios available. The first microprocessor I worked with was the 6800. Their applications notes were top notch. To say that I had immense respect for Motorola was an understatement.
By the mid 90s, all this changed when Motorola was taken over by bean counting MBAs who began to jettison less profitable product lines. They all but abandoned the power semiconductor market, announcing their intent to focus on the more lucrative CPU market. This was a harbinger of things to come. Now, it seems they are searching for new ways bolster their profits.
Wansu, th' chinese sailor
The funniest thing I find about it, is that it causes me to always flush twice!!
Yeah...but you probably take a piss more than a dump, especially if you are like my wife. That way it's 1.5L instead of 6L or whatever each time that you whiz.
Sure, a "killer application" may take a couple of flushes, but overall, it still works out to less water.
Pfft. Capitalism is great, but the players in it suffer from feedback.
Remember, the goal of society permitting a capitalistic system (there may indeed be a better, though undiscovered one - never know) is to encourage efficiency through competition.
It's a lot like free speech; rather than declare any one idea right, it must compete against other ideas, expecting that good ones will bubble up. (of course a student of memes will expect slightly different results) Even if MS were the best software house ever, it would be foolish to trust that it is the best software house possible, or that this was caused by it's monopoly.
The goal of the businesses operating in a capitalistic system however is to make a profit. Generally at the expense of the competition. Eliminating them entirely is in fact ideal. Not for the system of course, but for the self-interested person in the system.
Without systems in place to encourage competition, and supress monopolies, they will triumph.
What happens when a group of companies forms a cartel? Well, they can pool their resources. And they can employ natural or create artificial barriers to entry to deny the market to competitiors. Tactical lawsuits certainly would seem to be a good method if nothing else works. Make your competitors burn through all their money and establish legal precedents to keep the rest in check.
Not to mention that even if the small competitors (which are tolerated at best like tickbirds and never normally allowed to grow) do manage somehow to be a real threat to the monopoly, it has no interest in helping you. Better if it too is part of the monopoly, or destroys the first only to install one of its own.
I agree that the government has been culpable, but your precious businesses are acting as expected. Using ANY means necessary to succeed. If that means buying off the government, they'd be happy to do so, and are known for it historically anyway.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
So all they need is a module that'll detect that the VCR is connected to a cable system that offers 100+ channels but nothing good on any of them and it'll know it's in the U.S.?
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
It is more accurate to say that technology tends to serve the interests of the party that develops it. "Good" and "evil" aren't very useful concepts in that analysis.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that *most* people buying DVD's in Australia understand CSS, but a fair proportion do, as ordering DVDs from the US well before video release here is quite popular. It's gotten to the point where even the chain stores were openly advertising some of their units as "multi-zone" ;)
New Zealand have gone even further, every DVD player shipped there *must* be multi-zone, IIRC, because the monopolies commission could smell the distinct odor of rat coming from the movie industry :)
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
How about POP TARTS???
--
Ah, but when WWIII comes and the military blocks the signals, you'll get automatic energy conservation for the war effort. Probably get a good deal of scrap metal too as people toss the shit out.
-- Don't Tase me, bro!
One potentially useful applications might be in devices that broadcast RF, like cellphones or wireless networking stuff. A particular RF band licensed for use in one country might be reserved for, say, medical devices in another. With built-in GPS, your device could automatically switch frequency bands or shut off if it is moved into an area where it is prohibited.
Wouldn't that be more like:
I. ALL YOUR TOAST ARE BELONG TO US!
(snicker)
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
Sorry, the consumer looses again.
No, the American consumer loses again.
For all the bullshit that is spouted about these corporate marketing restrictions existing to "foster innovation", the truth is anywhere outside the US you're pretty likely to come across a TV that takes PAL/NTSC/SECAM, a region-free DVD player, a Macrovision-free VCR, and a multi-mode cell phone with global roaming (not to forget the dirt-cheap HDTV flat widescreen TVs we are told are "prohibitively expensive")...
---------------------------------------------
Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
This article on the New Scientist web site discusses marine parks to preserve fish stocks. It demonstrates how marine parks increase fish catches in areas outside the parks and advocates an increase in their number.
Fishing vessels could have this GPS chip installed in them. The chip could then shut down the fishing equipment when the vessel was within a marine park, or in an area where the vessel is not supposed to be, such as the territorial waters of another country.
Governments could make it mandatory as a condition of the fishing licence for this chip to be installed and working properly. There is the likelihood that old vessels without the chip could fish illegally. The best way of deterring and combatting this would be for such vessels to be scuttled when detected, and only catches from certified compliant vessels having access to the best fish markets.
Such measures may sound draconian, but they may ultimately be necessary. At present fish stocks the world over are being overexploited: one estimate I have heard recently puts the annual catch of the world fishing fleet at 40% more than the level needed to maintain stocks.
However, installing this sort of technology in consumer electronics to serve no higher purpose than protecting the profits of the manufacturers will ultimately result in lower profits for the manufacturers. Not all manufacturers will opt to licence this technology, and they could gain market share because of it. There are also countries in the world with a good manufacturing base who would not allow this technology to be employed. Globalisation and free trade could also see such technology being made illegal, so expect a lot of bribes^H^H^H^H^H^H^H lobbying by major corporations to ensure that such technology is legal.
We seem to be rapidly moving towards a corporate-run police state, with all the dire consequences that such a state will bring. A worst-case scenario would see the majority of the Western world's population enslaved by profiteering corporations within 50 years. (You Must Spend All Your Income To Make The Corporation Richer. This Is Where You Will Go Today. You May Not Do Anything That May Compromise Corporate Profit. Work Shall Make You Free.) The sooner the general public is made aware of all this restrictive technology, the better off we will be in the future.
Finally, I have a short reading list that you may find useful.
George Orwell, "1984".
Ray Bradbury, "Fahrenheit 451".
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
But you don't mind me using the word "kaflooey" in the same sentence?
Funny thing is, you don't get to decide what is and is not a word. If I use it and you understand it, it's ia word whether you like it being one or not.
Kevin Fox
--
Kevin Fox
Fact is, if something like this is implemented, within a week you'll see "GPS Signal Squelchers", and / or "Short Range GPS Transmitters" to fool your dishwasher into thinking it's still in Cambodia. I think development of this type of gps technology is good, as is most development. But if it's being used for no-good, then people will just take the power back. That's our theme here at Slashdot isn't it?
GPS is going to be ultra cheap very soon. I worked for a company that has a one chip + antennae gps solution, and the antennae can be wound pretty tight if you're willing to give up some performance (which for simple needs devices like this would be acceptable). You can get the whole package into about a 2x2 inch area for a cost that will come down into the $5 range as soon as they produce them in large numbers. $5 is still high for an addon to consumer equipment, but at least for high end gear (anything over $300 retail) it is probably feasible, and the cost will
obviously keep coming down, particularly once they can wind or fractal the antennae onto the chip.
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
Actually, my understanding is that the low-flow toilets are 1.5 gallons per flush... and when I've done some major, uh, business, two flushes is lucky...
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
... things like this only work where there is a very strong monopoly on a particular technology. the fact is, if all major producers of TVs band together and support this technology in a do-or-die fashion, there will be hundreds of upstarts from china, korea, even the US, who will happily jump in and provide what consumers want.
because the big companies are usually not willing to risk everything (literally) for a relatively small gain like controlling grey markets. what surprises me is that they try it over and over again.
the RIAA's/Napster conflict is different. the RIAA (thinks it) becomes obsolete with Napster, so it has to stage an all-or-nothing war. and even there, Bertelsmann is there to try and spoil the party. capitalism - sometimes it works.
nik
ps: Motorola, get back to speed up those PowerPCs! God, this company is lame...
Doesn't snaptrack inherently depend on information sent and received from servers through the cellular network (i.e. what satellites are up, etc?)
Sorry, GPS doesn't work indoors.
It might work for the cell phones, but not
for the TV's. The TV's would require off-air
antennas for the broadcast signal.
Let's look at DIVX.
I'm sure Motorola, et.al., have. They will be smarter with the introduction. They will not advertise the presence of the devices. This will not be a problem for most people, and the first few who complain will find a call to tech support will get them a replacement. Remember, most people don't know about country coding for DVDs now, because most people don't travel overseas very often. Only after the use of these devices have become very ingrained in business will Motorola open discuss what they are doing.
I always thought the American environmental regulations controlling toilet flow creating a black market in old toilets was the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of
The funniest thing I find about it, is that it causes me to always flush twice!! That is, I use more water with the new 'water efficient' models than I did with the old 'use enough water to make sure it all goes down' types. Mark this down to the laws of unintended conseqences. Not only will the market for used A/V equipment open up, but people will be a lot more willing to buy an off brand TV made in some no-name Mexican plant using dated technology.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
what, did Talkie Toster meet a lawyer?
- The price is fair (only 40% as useful? then 40% the price)
- An uncrippled version is available for purchase at the original price
But I'm pretty sure that as soon as crippled songs/dishwashers/kitchen-sink become available, the costs for the crippled versions will be unreasonable if you stop and think about it for a second (but few people will), and the uncrippled version won't be available except through questionable vendors.My point is... the use of technology to produce "lesser" products isn't evil... but the use of technology by large companies to gain more control over consumers and squeeze more money out of them is. Just don't knee-jerk about a particular technology.
--
Unlike software, where most companies routinely get away with "license" terms that deny the implied warranty of "fitness for a particular purpose", hardware manufacturers have to see to it that what they sell you works, and if it doesn't you get your money back.
SO, if you buy a Sony walkman in Tokyo, and it torches itself when you step off a plane in Vancouver, Sony owes you a refund, and you can take it up with your local consumer protection agency. Every US state and Canadian province has them.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Moderate this up. I am still amazed by those who believe that government is the solution to corporate abuses, when these abuses are only possible because the government rewrites the law to favor itself and certain businesses at the expense of consumers. Region coding and CSS would be non-issues if they weren't legally enforceable with the DMCA. Many privacy concerns today would not exist if the US government had not prevented the widespread use of encryption. Then there's the Sonny Bono copyright extension act, the Communications Decency Act, Echelon, and the list goes on. The government and both major parties have a very poor record of protecting our rights, and giving them more power is the last thing I would do.
How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
Yeah, but why would anyone buy something that had such bad reliability?
First DVDs, now electronics.
:-(
WTF?
If I bought it, *why* can't I *use* it wherever I go?!
Can someone explain the rationale for dvd region codes? (Aside from the obvious answer of "money"
in a freak accident takes out one of the GPS satellites. Every bit of consumer electronics in the 'North American Marketing Region' immediately shuts down
Nice joke, nice theory, but that's not how GPS works. There are up to 30 satellites, including spares, in orbit. The receiver needs to have line of sight to three of them to pinpoint latitude and longitude. My receiver usually can see six or more, giving altitude and redundancy.
Also, to the other jokester who commented that military scrambling could break devices who depend on GPS, the military SA (Selective Ability) feature just degrades the accuracy, it would not render GPS totally offline. It could, in extreme scenarios, but too many USA forces depend on non-military-enabled consumer GPS units.
[
No, I did say that in severe cases, they can turn it off. It was in fact during Operation Desert Storm that they tried tuning SA for best military advantage, but they reversed themselves.
First, our own forces didn't have enough milspec GPS units available, so they had relatives mailing over civilian Garmins and Magellans. Second, the Iraqis didn't have much in the way of GPS, so they decided to kill SA so our forces could use civilian GPS signals.
SA is also targetable to terrain: if they want the satellites to remain mum over Bosnia, it won't hurt your Garmin receivers in Texas one bit. That's the "selective" in "SA".
[
Everyone crys out foul whenever some scheme like this is hatched. But everyone always forgets that WE, the technology lovers, the ones who are the first in line to buy (or at least take a look at) new devices, are the ones that determine the success or failure of new technology. We adopt these new things early on and (if they are good), reccommend them to out non-technology-saavy friends are relatives. Where would DVD be if, back in 1997, we weren't first in line to buy both consumer and computer DVD players, drives, and other hardware? It would be a niche product that wouldn't have the sales volume it has today (sort of like laserdisc), despite all of Hollywood's hype.
So, the solution is not to buy new products that have restrictions on them. Pure and simple.
And, if by change, they work their way into existing products, BUG THE HELL OUT OF THE MANUFACTURERS with constant "It doesn't work" calls and letters. Make it no longer cost effective to produce them.
There's one major difference between technologies like this and DivX. DivX was intrusive, annoying and obvious. Something like this is not advertised, except in fine print somewhere that says you can't use it in a country outside where you bought it.
Further, the difference between DivX and something like this is that DivX affected what most people did normally. I don't know that many people that transport dishwashers between countries. Most people I know buy their dishwashers in the US and use them there. These people would not care if their dishwasher would not work in Hong Kong because they don't intend to take it there!
Mmmm.. Donuts
They want the best of both worlds. They want to be able to use cheap third world labor and slack third world environmental laws to cheaply create products that they can sell in different parts of the world, for the maximum price that that part of the world will pay.
They want to stop us from importing electronics, movies, CD's and such from parts of the world where they sell the exact same items for 1/2 the price.
Free trade is not something the common man is supposed to be able to take advantage of. It is supposed to be something the corps can use to increase their profits.
Against intellectual property chapter three of Information Liberation
Need a website host? Try out http://WebQualityHost.net
Putting these chips in phones sort of kills the idea behind international roaming doesn't it? I can't see the mobile phone service providers being happy with this.
International roaming is one of their highest profit activities.
"Do you think we could wipe out world hunger forever if scientists figured out how to make AOL's Free CD's edible?"-
Man, stuff like this keeps moving me closer and closer to just buying a hi-fi stereo integrated-amplifier instead of a surround receiver.
Refrag
I have a website. It's about Macs.
Things are not as they appear, nor are they otherwise.
Except in the case of NTSC vs. PAL and CDMA/TDMA/GSM/CDPD, etc., the fragmenting was haphazard and the result of different areas using incompatible standards. The difference here is that it's NOT an incompatible standard, in fact, it's a very uniform, world-wide standard on how to artificially create regions. The first has no clear malice of forethought, while DVD encoding and this Motorola GPS system are very specifically designed with the malicious creation of artificial market segments in mind. The former is bad for consumers, but not illegal. The latter is bad for consumers, and highly illegal. I just wish someone in Washington would figure that out, since they seem to have missed the threat to free trade that AOL/TimeWarner/Netscape/Mirabilis poses, and that other cartels such as the MPAA and RIAA pose. Yeah, Microsoft is up there, but the cartels are even more dangerous.
--GrouchoMarx
--GrouchoMarx
Card-carrying member of the EFF, FSF, and ACLU. Are you?
For the record a cartel is defined as "a combination of independent commercial or industrial enterprises designed to limit competition or fix prices." (Mirriam-Webster Online)
Now, regionalization schemes do what? (Be it CSS, Motorola's GPS system, or something else.) They divide up the market so that companies can charge different prices in different areas. That is, fix prices. The fact that we haven't broken up the MPAA and RIAA is already a disgrace, as they are some of the most obvious and blatant cartels in American history, but if we allow companies to now segment ALL products into market regions? Californians have more money than Kentuckians, on average, so lets charge twice as much for a washing machine in California than Kentucky, even though it's cheaper to ship them there. "What the market will bear" and all of that jazz.
"Free market" capitalism is one of those things that works really nice on paper, but in the real world fails miserably. What's to stop competitors from joining forces into a cartel? Absolutely nothing. Oh, wait, except the government who can stop them through the legal system. But we can't have that, that would be socialism which is synonimous with demon spawn, right? And no, you can't "vote with your dollars" and go elsewhere, because there is no elsewhere to go. That's the whole point of a cartel. And no, you can't start up your own company, because the cost of entry in the modern marketplace is so high. Add to that the licensing costs of using technology to be compatible, and you have yourself an impenitrable cartel. (You don't like CSS and want to make DVDs without it? Sorry, they won't be compatible unless you sign agreements with the patent/copyright holders, the MPAA, who will require you to play by their rules and become one of them.)
I know there's a strong anti-government sentiment in this country and on Slashdot in particular, but I offer you a choice: The government you pick in the voting booth (buying an election only works if people like you are dumb enough to vote for the best commerical rather than the best candidate) and have control over and is YOUR GOVERNMENT, or a consortium of a few rich individuals who are answerable to no one but their own bottom line and who are indoctrinated to screw you over if they possibly can.
I don't know about you, but it's an easy choice for me. It's time to start busting some trusts left and right, starting with the MPAA, moving on to AOL/TimeWarner, any company that incorporates this "market division" technology, and just keep right on going. Splitting the compaines up should encourage competition, which is supposedly a good thing, right?
Ah, Teddy Roosevelt, where are you when we need you?
--GrouchoMarx
--GrouchoMarx
Card-carrying member of the EFF, FSF, and ACLU. Are you?
For those of you breathing fast and hard about user rights after the purchase, what would you think if your TV/VCR/Cellphone/Dishwasher would die if you moved it out of an "authorized usage area?" Got a great boom box bargan on your last visit to Hong Kong, but now it won't work in Cleveland? Yuk!
Sounds a lot like region coding on DVDs. Take your DVD outside zone X, and it won't work any more. Just imagine what an uproar there would be if TVs/VCRs/Cellphones/etc. did this as well.
---
Check in...OK! Check out...OK!
I pledge allegiance to the flag...
of the Corporate States of America...
Tell me what makes you so afraid
Of all those people you say you hate
Honestly, this technology could be used for many other things. Military electronics and the such could be set to self destruct over time, so that things like The Sum of All Fears by Tom Clancy can't take place when terrorists find things lying around. However, this technology should stay out of the civilian area.
Tell me what makes you so afraid
Of all those people you say you hate
When the industry does something like this, you have two choices. If the equipment, along with its restrictions, is worth the price to you, then you go buy it. If not, then you don't. Simple as that. I've never heard anywhere that anyone somehow has a god-given right to equipment without content controls.
If this poses a problem to enough people, (which companies will notice by people not buying their products), then somebody will get the bright idea to manufacture the machines without the controls. It's obvious that hardware manufacturers don't particularily care about maintaining control; they just want the money. Maybe they'll charge more for equipment without content controls; it will be up to you consumers to decide whether it's worth the price or not.
The biggest argument I see here is that, "But soon, I won't be able to buy [insert topic of slashdot article here] without [insert control being discussed here]." So what? Even if that's true (and I tend to doubt it, as for the most part companies haven't had much luck convincing consumers that they need to be controlled more), that shouldn't effect you. If the reduced utility or infringement on your 'rights' makes it not worth having, don't buy it.
The problem is that most of the posters here won't follow up on what they say. Not only will they not make their thoughts known to the hardware manufacturers, but when the newest toy shows up, who will be first in line? Businesses exist to make money, and the people here provide a substantial amount of what goes to any sort of tech industry.
Sorry for the long and probably senseless ramble ... but I think it has to be said once, so you'll all have something to jeer at.
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
Cookiecutters they would work better and not be nearly as messy and we should give them to the "elected" people to same conditions. :)
If you don't get the above go read "The Diamond Age" and then talk to me.
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
I can just see it now... All hotel towels will have little tags reading Warning: This towel will burst into flames if you remove it from the hotel.
Great, let's all boycott controlled devices! Sounds good to me! Only it's A.D. 2048, and there ain't no such thing anymore. So, what are you going to do? Give in and get one, or keep up your boycott at all costs? You can probably do without a TV, given the crap that TV programming has turned into, and you can even do without a dishwasher if you don't mind getting your hands dirty every once in a while. But how about your fridge? Will you walk to the store every day for your food--not that you'd have anything to cook it on except your old charcoal grill--or will you build yourself an "unencumbered" bicycle and hope that the authorities don't come and take it away before it breaks down of its own accord?
Or will you just give in and get a fridge with one of those nifty two-way TV screens on it?
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BACKNEXTFINISHCANCEL
They aren't just using GPS, however. It sounds like they are contemplating other signals to determine location. TV signals, radio signals, or some other kind of signals could be used, if the signal is different enough to determine the area it is being used in. Don't think of the weaknesses of GPS reception, think of radio and TV reception.
What is the impact? If you want to buy cheap electronics from some other country, electronics you could buy in the U.S. at a higher price, you'll have to take other actions, such as modifying the equipment, sheilding your house, or other drastic measures.
It seems a little counter-intuitive. Only the "cheaper" version needs protection, but the cost will go up with the addition of protective devices, lowering the demand for the cheaper version. Free-trade areas like WTO and EU seem to be against it. The only benefit seems to be in the area of consumer electronics like Playstations, where regional sales tactics may already be in place, and there is already a healthy market in moding these boxes. Healthy, but it is a minority market - most people won't go through the trouble of ordering from China and waiting a month if they can pick up the same thing, 10% more, at the local store.
Just the problems this would cause the government. At least in the cases where they move their employees around. Not to mention the private sector.
_________________________ Visit me at http://pornforcomputers.com
It is a bad idea to make devices fry themselves permanently if they do not constantly recieve a GPS signal. Realisticly, at the very worst the device will cease to operate until it begins recieving the GPS signal again. This still sucks, but it's not QUITE as bad.
I seriously doubt a system in which devices permanently fry themselves as soon as there is a lapse in the GPS signal are what they intend to implement.
I don't see them getting away with this one though. There are far too many things that could go wrong.
If they can make a GPS engine cheap enough to throw into a VCR to enable this scheme I think I will buy one just for the engine ;)
i didn't purchase the travel license.
fsifhcuierk.
what?
Just think, we'll be driven back to using stuff in antique stores, simply because the greedy bastards won't sell us one without some chip. Back to the future.
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A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
2. Put this crap in your product and suffer an end around by industries who don't play ball the way you want them. Sony would be able to flex some muscle, as they own music, TV and motion picture rights to a sizeable catalog, but see how well the Mini-Disc is doing if you want a preview of this poorly thought out logic.
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A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Not any more it doesn't.
I love the smell of Karma in the morning
Or short those companies as they get sued to death!
Let's look at DIVX. Now there was a product that was needlessly complicated and overly restictive and Circuit City probably lost a bundle when it failed. Who, in the tech community _didn't_ see it coming? Not many, I imagine. I have a feeling that this kind of application of technology could backfire immensely on any companies that choose to use it.
If only it always worked that way. DIVX was stupid. Here's how people play the game now:
1. "Industry standards". Actually a form of collusion, all the makers of HDTVs or DVDs or whatever get together and agree to incorporate anti-consumer technology into all their products. This is illegal, the Justice Department should sue their asses into oblivion, but that isn't gonna happen.
2. Stealth mode. Windows XP will keep playing all my MP3s until MS sends the signal to cut off the "illegal content" - the MP3s I got from MP3.com and my own CDs. You can do this with anything - just install a clock that the user can't modify and give it a fixed date to switch to "control mode".
3. The DMCA. Ruthlessly hunt down anyone who tries to give us our rights back, and declare that they are thieves.
Motorola's on to an interesting marketing gimmick enforcement mechanism. But what about the legal/contract law implications?
For example, If I buy a CD player, will I be required to agree to a license? If I don't agree and the device suicides, will I be able to sue the manufacturer, the distributor, or the retailer? After all, if I buy the device at the local Circuit City but the sales clerk didn't point out the agreement to me, or I bought the device on the gray market, I shouldn't be bound by the terms of the license, should I?
This looks like one more insidious possibility of UCITA shrink-wrap licenses causing grief in the marketplace.
Don't forget to read the unbiased news about UCITA, also (Not that Stallman's opinion doesn't explain enough...).
MacOS, Windows, BeOS, GNOME, KDE: they're all just Xerox copies
Just imagine...
Give's a WHOLE new meaning to the term 'lube job', don't it?
"A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --
"A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --
GeneralEmergency
A piece of paper inside a toaster box isn't a license, or contract. It's just a factually incorrect statement. Presumably, the arguement behind EULAs holds because the user "signs" the contract by clicking a button.
A contract must be agreed to, for it to be valid. If you don't agree with the contract included in the box, don't accept its terms. The vendor may ask you to return the product; if it does so, simply refuse. If they want it back, they have to pay for it, like you did.
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All men are great
before declaring war
A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
Or something
I can See It Now(tm).
It's 2012, we get hit by a bad solar flare. A Payload Assist Module accidentally ignites and in a freak accident takes out one of the GPS satellites. Every bit of consumer electronics in the 'North American Marketing Region' immediately shuts down because it is 'out of the authorized market area'. The crowds do go wild - but not in a nice way. The heads of the networks will go up on pikes right alongside the heads of the government for letting em foist the technology on us.
Now that would be a real plot for a disaster movie. But don't come a calling if you are a member of the MPAA. I'll sell the screenplay (already in progress) to an indie.
You either believe in rational thought or you don't
As long as there are acceptable alternatives, the market will avoid stupid products.
If I have a choice between two similar cellphones, one that works everywhere, and one that self-destructs if I take it to Canada, I'll probably choose the non-self-destruct one. But if I'm offered $100 off the self-destruct phone, I might be willing to live with that limitation.
How much of a discount would typical consumers need in order to purchase a limited product? Is the manufacturer's gain in market control worth it?
She should die when she attempts to leave the kitchen.
And if someone spoofs it once, goodbye? I can just see driving round with a spoofing unit set to, say, india, and trashing every appliance in the neighbourhood. It'd be worth doing just once for the sheer havoc you'd cause. How about grand final day, about noon?
Hm. Won't this upset these orgs. I mean, this is hindering of free trade...
Btw, someone will probably _quickly_ find out a standard way of bridging over these chips if they aren't integrated into some other chips ine one dye.
--The knowledge that you are an idiot, is what distinguishes you from one.
DIVX consumers were likely to understand how the system worked ("what's that phone line for again?") Newer right-restricting technologies are more cleverly hidden. What percentage of American DVD purchasers do you think understand what region encoding is? I'd wager it's about 20% and getting lower every day. Everything they see for sale is R1 - they don't have to know about it.
Devices like MP3 players are already incorporating content controls - nobody knows they're there. The same will be true of content sensitive HDTVs, speakers, etc. The average consumer will never attempt to "cheat" and will never even be aware of the limitations.
Under these conditions I really don't think consumers will reject content controlling devices.
/* The beatings will continue until morale improves. */
Yeah. Hang them from trees and lead folks around in 4K circles in the woods! Then make wierd noises from off in the distance and leave bundles of twigs and stuff outside their tents every night.
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What would happen if for some reason the GPS network developed a... problem. Say we have an unusually heavy meteor shower, which would cause no undue damage to earth itself but could reign utter havoc on satellites in orbit. Its not inconcievable that enough of the GPS satellites could be disabled that would cause GPS devices on Earth to become disabled. If this were to happen, does this mean that all consumer goods would fail to function until the sats were repaired or replaced?
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
Hmm, if devices 'are programmed to identify the signal transmitted by national broadcasters' then just think what fun you could have with a small radio transmitter and a bit of hacking. Drive around town transmitting codes from another country, and cause everyone electronics to self destruct. Now, better get shares in those electronic manufacturing and retail companies first... then as people rush out to replace their old stuff, sit back and rake in the money.
National broadcast signal? How hard would it be for me to either a) block the signal by clipping the antenna so it does not know where its at, or b) jam the signal so none of my nebigors equipment knows where its at. If the unit must know where its at so it can operate all my nebigors will complain when someone jams it, and if it will default to functional then a pair of wire cutters should do the trick.
This scheme will never work.
You would need an antenna capable of receiving the signal, the necessary amplifiers, at least one CDMA correlator, and a microprocessor to drive the show. You would need to find at least one satellite and then download the satellites almanac (keep in mind GPS satellites are no geo-synchronous). From the almanac downloaded from the satellite, and the satellites PN number you could computer a rough idea (probably about 300 miles, I would have to look closer at the specs) of where you are.
What more would you need for a full-blown GPS? Just multiplex the use of the one correlator, and keep track of the relative locations in the PN code. That's mainly just software. So cost wise, there isn't much difference. Sorry.
Better still, your premium can be billed by how much, and how fast, you drive. If you think that having your telephone billed by the second was neat, wait until Allstate and Geiko make GPS transcievers a mandatory feature of being their client.
Things to watch for: A deal between Microsoft and Toshiba that renders Office XP useless on Toshiba laptops when taken into countries where Microsoft software is known to be pirated.
How absolutely fascinating.
The REAL jabber has the /. user id: 13196
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
DVDs will work in any geographic area. They just wont work on players made for that region. If I have a portable Panasonic DVD player, I can take it with me to Europe and still watch my Region 1 discs. If I had one with a zap chip in it, I couldn't use the unit at all outside the area (and depending on how you interpret the article, anywhere else after attempting to do so).
Kevin Fox
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Kevin Fox
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This is terrible. First off, what happens if it can't detect a GPS signal at all? Will it operate? I know GPS doesn't come through many buildings, or any basements.
If the GPS system hiccups, or there's a bug like the 'thousandth week' GPS bug that could have wreaked havoc in 1999, do the boxen all go kaflooey?
Worse yet, considering DGPS uses ground stations, could someone set up a few local area transmitters to give out false readings, selectively destroying hardware in a localized region?
Even worse, what would stop a foreign power from doing the same thing, sending out false GPS from a few of their sattelietes at a specific moment before an attack. When a pager sattelite went down in 1998, US productivity went down 6% (if you really want me to find the link, I will, but this is an statistic). what happens if 70% of the cellphones, radios and televisions all went out at the same time? This sounds like just the FUD tactic any superpower or terrorist organization would love to have.
Bomb an embassy? Bad. Knock out half the TVs in the continental US and you'll have serious consequences.
I'd be as likely to buy something with one of these cips inside it as I would to install a utility on my Linux box that wipes the drive if someone tries to SSH in with the wrong password.
Kevin Fox
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Kevin Fox
I shake my head whenever I see things like this. Companies seem to have the idea that they need to maintain control over products after they have been sold to a customer. Do we need a consumer's bill o' rights? It's obvious that we are basically helpless as consumers to enact any change. All the WTO protests in the world aren't going to change the fact that people _need_ a refridgerator.
I think part of this new concept of control stems from the basic idea of selling software: when you buy software (when you _do_ buy it) you are buying the right to use the software. This is slowly being extended. Now we don't buy the music, we buy the right to listen to it. Soon, will we buy the right to open a fridge?
The concept of ownership is slowly being erroded. We need to do _something_ to ensure that in this next century we have the right to use the products we buy how we choose, even if it doesn't fit into the scope of its intended usage.
We are hearing more and more about technology that will impose capricious and draconian restrictions on what we consumers can do with the products we buy. From the DCMA and its offspring like SDMI, to built-in GPS for region control, to the alleged new CD format that will prevent copying, to digital TV that won't allow the signal to be recorded, to speakers that won't allow unauthorized signals to be played, there are so many new ideas being floated about of ways for companies to "protect their rights" (which also means artifically increase profits and take advantage of helpless customers). The industry's reaction to things like Napster could end up having a terrible effect on people who have never even used it.
When these technologies become incorporated into new CD players, DVD players, VCR's, etc, those products had better offer something so new, so cool, and so revolutionary that people will be willing to submit to Soviet-style restrictions on fair use in order to get them. If that doesn't happen, you can guarantee that savvy customers will boycott the products.
Let's look at DIVX. Now there was a product that was needlessly complicated and overly restictive and Circuit City probably lost a bundle when it failed. Who, in the tech community _didn't_ see it coming? Not many, I imagine. I have a feeling that this kind of application of technology could backfire immensely on any companies that choose to use it.
I always thought the American environmental regulations controlling toilet flow creating a black market in old toilets was the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of, just wait until we see old analog A/V equipment becoming more and more of a prized possesion, so people can make reasonable use of the products and software (i.e., music, movies, etc) they buy.
Big Brother is alive and well, but he's currently employed in the private sector.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
I propose implanting these chips into lobbyist's heads, along with a small charge of TNT. We then program the chips to detonate the charge whenever the lobbyist gets within a mile of an elected official.
This, of course, requires we chip elected officials, and continuously monitor their locations. Since this seems to be what they wish to do to us, they should have little problem with experiencing it themselves.
This would also have the side effect of allowing us to locate the positions of bars, brothels, and gambling houses with unprecidented accuracy.
www.eFax.com are spammers
ACME TOASTER 1000 END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT
Congratulations on your purchase of a ACME Toaster 1000. Prior to opening and using this toaster, you must read and accept the terms of this agreement.
I. GRANT OF LICENSE.
The EULA gives you the following rights:
II. RESTRICTIONS:
I think this is a great idea, especially for things like aircraft components.
One of the many things I hate. thingsihate.org
hrmm.. except that I can't receive GPS signals indoors on my Garmin GPS receiver. I doubt they're going to put a higher powered receiver in my dishwasher than I've got in my standalone, dedicated GPS receiver.
So I'll just unplug it if I need to take my dishwasher outside for anything...
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