i have to agree. their people, dying of cancer, take it so much more gracefully. they dont shout in the streets like those people in syria or tunisia. they just shut up and die, so admirable.
people said wikileaks would cause casualties. well, its been a year+ since alot of this stuff was released. who has died? can anyone name a single person who has died so far?
"Destabilising sensitive negotiations and compromising sources will almost certainly result in more deaths, though, not just for the sources and their families but because the work they were doing was undermined."
im not saying i dont believe you. im just asking for evidence.
there are a lot of kids in pakistan who have died because of drone strokes. they didn't "theoretically die", in the mind of some internet blogger, they actually died, in real life, with their guts hanging out all over the floor, screaming for their parents who were probably splattered all over the adjacent wall.
why should i be more concerned over something that theoretically, might happen, (and i have been waiting a year for it to happen) versus something that happens every other week, in reality? this is my problem with this argument. this is where i fall down actually giving a shit about the 'crimes of wikileaks'.
the rules are not 'clear from the get go'. Thomas Drake was recently prosecuted under the Espionage act for having in his posession a document clearly marked UNCLASSIFIED.
read the case, read the government arguments.
then read about all the high officials and heads of governments who have leaked or mishandled information in the past - including President Reagan's head of DCI Bill Casey who was a scatterbrain and mishandled documents all the time, then there was the leak of the DEA operation in the 80s that lead to the death of Barry Seal, then there was Nixon wanting to leak the Pentagon Papers in order to make Johnson look bad, then the last one is Obama's leaking of information about the assassination of Bin Ladin, then there was Bush's people leaking info about Plame.
leaking is how Congress and the Executive communicate with the media. you shut down leaking, especially in todays overclassification culture, where menus for picnics are marked 'For Official Use Only', and what you are doing is shutting down the flow of information in a democracy, which leads to an ignorant voting public.
for these silly wikileaks people. all their fault that after 10 years there is no specific definition of victory, our main allies are corrupt, election stealing drug lords, and the unfunded pakistani school system allows millions of poverty stricken children to enter more brainwashing madrassas every year.
Pointing out specific countries that cause pollution is obvious prejudice, possibly racist.
We need to be more understanding, and just use the phrase "a country, which shall not be named, recently dumped a shitload of pollution into the environment. we cant tell you which country - that would be prejudiced"
i will admit i wrote it in the middle of the night on sleep deprivation. i did go a little alex jones / glenn beck there for a minute. i am sorry.
but calling stuff like this 'espionage' is the true bias, and the truly misleading, hyperbolic bullshit. they put a guy in prison for fifteen fucking year for chrissake -- i get blasted as a nutcase, but these guys are perfectly rational authorities? look, this is fucking insane. we cannot keep doing this. its like saying 1+1 = 5, and everybody worried about the 'tone' of the guy screaming its 2. i realize thats not how things work - you have to be calm and deal with fatcs and all that shit. well sometimes you adopt a little bit of the craziness of the thing you are fighting against, on accident, because you just spend so much time reading about it.
on the manning case, im guessing that you will realize the media has been fucking us over as usual. read the specific charges against him. 95% of it is bullshit that would never make it through a civilian courtroom -the government prosecutors would, for the most part, never bring such a bullshit insane bunch of charges. "computer espionage" for giving out the Collateral Murder video? yeah. never would fly in a courtroom. jury would throw that out in 15 seconds. and yet, people in sonorous tones tell us over and over the 'manning leak case' is the worst thing since fucking benedict arnold, and lives were at stake. No fucking lives were at stake over the collateral murder video - and saying that shit is going to get manning put away behind bars for a long time, but not just manning, his associates who were helping the wikileaks website --- know why? They are under a Grand Jury with Conspiracy to Commit Espionage. If he is convicted, then they can be convicted too.
forgive my tone, but these people, trying to create this 'espionage culture', putting people in prison for gathering basic fatcs about the institutions and bureaucracies that we all pay for, and live under... they are the ones who are fucking insane. read the torture memos. Bush administration officials were fucking insane. read about the CDO industry. these are the fucking insane people. bankers, snorting coke off of prostitutes while they destroy the world economy.
they make my little rant look like a reasoned, calm, rational person.
i was hoping to start a 'tea party' of people who believe in free speech, i guess i am a bit too 'street nut' for that.
the swiss position in world war ii was very complicated and by no means devoid of nazi influence. there have been some great books come out in the past 10 years on this subject (the 'realpolitik' of a few swiss leaders at the time, forging the pseudo-alliance with various nazi officials in order to keep pressure off them)
we have moved just about every last fucking factory to China, along with all of the computers that control them. Then we sent the manufacturing of those computers to China too. All of the corporations made massive amoputns of money off of this. Do you think the Chinese PLA just sat back and didn't study anything? They are pulling the same game they did on the high-speed rail experts they 'contracted' to build the rail system.
And yet its all perfectly legal, because rich people are getting even richer off of it. Chinese workers arent getting rich - instead the government keeps the money and sticks it in Fannie and Freddie bonds and Treasury debt.
oh
but you want to possibly in theory sell a few secrets (like an email list... oh my god, how on earth did such a dangerous hacker acheive such a brilliant coup as an internal email list) to israel, which is a US ally... and youd think the world had come to a fucking end.
the whole country has gone ape shit, back asswards insane. people are just fucking stupid anymore. no fucking sense, not a drop left. sell the entire manufacturing and industrial base to China, a communist government that killed our own 'brave men in uniform' in the Korean War, but theoretically sell a few tiny corporate "secrets" to Israel and you get 15 years in the slammer.
how many secrets do you think are being funneled through our multinational corporations like , i dont know, chrysler? hummer? you know hummer is owned by the Chinese now right? the same hummers that our troops are driving around in Iraq and Afghanistan while they get blown up? Why dont we put the CEO of hummer in fucking prison for corporate espionage... he didn't sell a few email lists, he sold the whole fucking company!
Now don't get me wrong. I love China and it's culture, literature, people, etc. I'm just saying. Look at the fucking hypocrisy of these 'espionage' cases. Look who it benefits. the rich and the corporate elite. Look who it harms - the peons who want to give out information.
Now, I know this particular peon wanted to sell information, for money. But that is not what precedents like this get used for in the future. He is the 8th in history. 8th. The 8th guy is prosecuted for selling info. The 9th guy is prosecuted for thinking about selling info. The 10th guy is prosecuted for giving out info for free. The 11th guy is prosecuted for journalism.
That's the slippery slope of all this maniacal overcontrol of information, this obsession with secrecy... its not about secrecy, and it's not about protecting important information from espionage activity. It's about pure, blatant, bloody power, and who controls it, and who gets shafted. Espionage is a ruse. It's a red herring. The whole law is fucking corrupt to the point of banality.
Bradley Manning is being charged under Computer Espionage. For what? For "leaking" a gunship video. You know how many gunship videos are on youtube right now? You know there's a website that specializes specifically in gunship footage, all gunship footage all the time?
That's great. We now have three different kinds of Espionage - - - Plain old Espionage, Corporate Espionage, and Computer Espionage. How many more do we need? How many more can we invent? Well, just count the number of government agencies and power centers in the military industrial complex and then you will find out how many variations of thought-control law will be promulgated under 'national security'.
Its all a lie. Everything we see here is junk. It's all junk.
people have old cars, and those features break, and they dont get them repaired.
thus. there are a lot of automobiles with no air conditioning, and no working airbags, on the road right now. look for people with their windows rolled down in summer.
i've always said "dont drive down this street, theres a fucking roundabout and every time you go into it, someone just about kills you. whoever the fucking idiot is who put that roundabout in obviously doesnt live on planet earth. they should have built more bicycle lanes and made it easier to walk around the city instead of this bullshit"
you can find advertisements from the 1980s about radar systems warning people about stuff behind them.
in reality, the cheap models of cars will not have any of that stuff, in order to keep the price low.
that is almost a necessity in this new age, where the distribution of wealth has become so uneven, where you have 9% unemployment measurements (and much higher in reality) , tens of millions of people on food stamps (a historical high), where minimum wage is not enough to live on, let alone buy a car, and more and more people are getting minimum wage jobs, while a very small number of people get most of the income.
you cant sell a bunch of fancy, gadget filled cars in such an economic environment.
Slashdot Mirror
i have to agree. their people, dying of cancer, take it so much more gracefully. they dont shout in the streets like those people in syria or tunisia. they just shut up and die, so admirable.
where i sell che-t-shirts, on ebay. they would be made in china, you can get super cheap labor there... also no fucking unions!
old old old
will they go on sale soon?
you will never ever meet any girls in engineering school. ever.
and they typically 'leak' information for political reasons, for power and influence, for purposes of manipulation and propaganda.
that is why government prosecutions of 'leakers' are the ultimate hypocrisy. government itself is the biggest leaker of all.
namely, Vietnam.
"I doubt any Wikileaks releases have prevented any drone strikes"
well they COULD, in THEORY... which is the only standard of evidence we are dealing with.
people said wikileaks would cause casualties. well, its been a year+ since alot of this stuff was released. who has died? can anyone name a single person who has died so far?
"Destabilising sensitive negotiations and compromising sources will almost certainly result in more deaths, though, not just for the sources and their families but because the work they were doing was undermined."
im not saying i dont believe you. im just asking for evidence.
there are a lot of kids in pakistan who have died because of drone strokes. they didn't "theoretically die", in the mind of some internet blogger, they actually died, in real life, with their guts hanging out all over the floor, screaming for their parents who were probably splattered all over the adjacent wall.
why should i be more concerned over something that theoretically, might happen, (and i have been waiting a year for it to happen) versus something that happens every other week, in reality? this is my problem with this argument. this is where i fall down actually giving a shit about the 'crimes of wikileaks'.
is guilty of torture?
and secrecy. it is the history of the twentieth century.
Patrice Lumumba being a perfect example.
im not saying Wikileaks did the right thing, im just saying to be 'outraged' is a little hard to understand.
the rules are not 'clear from the get go'. Thomas Drake was recently prosecuted under the Espionage act for having in his posession a document clearly marked UNCLASSIFIED.
read the case, read the government arguments.
then read about all the high officials and heads of governments who have leaked or mishandled information in the past - including President Reagan's head of DCI Bill Casey who was a scatterbrain and mishandled documents all the time, then there was the leak of the DEA operation in the 80s that lead to the death of Barry Seal, then there was Nixon wanting to leak the Pentagon Papers in order to make Johnson look bad, then the last one is Obama's leaking of information about the assassination of Bin Ladin, then there was Bush's people leaking info about Plame.
leaking is how Congress and the Executive communicate with the media. you shut down leaking, especially in todays overclassification culture, where menus for picnics are marked 'For Official Use Only', and what you are doing is shutting down the flow of information in a democracy, which leads to an ignorant voting public.
for these silly wikileaks people. all their fault that after 10 years there is no specific definition of victory, our main allies are corrupt, election stealing drug lords, and the unfunded pakistani school system allows millions of poverty stricken children to enter more brainwashing madrassas every year.
i would have modded you up
Pointing out specific countries that cause pollution is obvious prejudice, possibly racist.
We need to be more understanding, and just use the phrase "a country, which shall not be named, recently dumped a shitload of pollution into the environment. we cant tell you which country - that would be prejudiced"
they were like 'awww awesome, we blew that shit up. did you see that? fuck, man, just like Return of the Jedi'
i encourage you to read it again, there is no racism, ignorance (except for the Hummer thing - totally blew it), or paranoia in there.
hate? well, you got me on that one.
its true.
thanks for the advice.
i will admit i wrote it in the middle of the night on sleep deprivation. i did go a little alex jones / glenn beck there for a minute. i am sorry.
but calling stuff like this 'espionage' is the true bias, and the truly misleading, hyperbolic bullshit. they put a guy in prison for fifteen fucking year for chrissake -- i get blasted as a nutcase, but these guys are perfectly rational authorities? look, this is fucking insane. we cannot keep doing this. its like saying 1+1 = 5, and everybody worried about the 'tone' of the guy screaming its 2. i realize thats not how things work - you have to be calm and deal with fatcs and all that shit. well sometimes you adopt a little bit of the craziness of the thing you are fighting against, on accident, because you just spend so much time reading about it.
on the manning case, im guessing that you will realize the media has been fucking us over as usual. read the specific charges against him. 95% of it is bullshit that would never make it through a civilian courtroom -the government prosecutors would, for the most part, never bring such a bullshit insane bunch of charges. "computer espionage" for giving out the Collateral Murder video? yeah. never would fly in a courtroom. jury would throw that out in 15 seconds. and yet, people in sonorous tones tell us over and over the 'manning leak case' is the worst thing since fucking benedict arnold, and lives were at stake. No fucking lives were at stake over the collateral murder video - and saying that shit is going to get manning put away behind bars for a long time, but not just manning, his associates who were helping the wikileaks website --- know why? They are under a Grand Jury with Conspiracy to Commit Espionage. If he is convicted, then they can be convicted too.
forgive my tone, but these people, trying to create this 'espionage culture', putting people in prison for gathering basic fatcs about the institutions and bureaucracies that we all pay for, and live under... they are the ones who are fucking insane. read the torture memos. Bush administration officials were fucking insane. read about the CDO industry. these are the fucking insane people. bankers, snorting coke off of prostitutes while they destroy the world economy.
they make my little rant look like a reasoned, calm, rational person.
i was hoping to start a 'tea party' of people who believe in free speech, i guess i am a bit too 'street nut' for that.
the swiss position in world war ii was very complicated and by no means devoid of nazi influence. there have been some great books come out in the past 10 years on this subject (the 'realpolitik' of a few swiss leaders at the time, forging the pseudo-alliance with various nazi officials in order to keep pressure off them)
we have moved just about every last fucking factory to China, along with all of the computers that control them. Then we sent the manufacturing of those computers to China too. All of the corporations made massive amoputns of money off of this. Do you think the Chinese PLA just sat back and didn't study anything? They are pulling the same game they did on the high-speed rail experts they 'contracted' to build the rail system.
And yet its all perfectly legal, because rich people are getting even richer off of it. Chinese workers arent getting rich - instead the government keeps the money and sticks it in Fannie and Freddie bonds and Treasury debt.
oh
but you want to possibly in theory sell a few secrets (like an email list... oh my god, how on earth did such a dangerous hacker acheive such a brilliant coup as an internal email list) to israel, which is a US ally... and youd think the world had come to a fucking end.
the whole country has gone ape shit, back asswards insane. people are just fucking stupid anymore. no fucking sense, not a drop left. sell the entire manufacturing and industrial base to China, a communist government that killed our own 'brave men in uniform' in the Korean War, but theoretically sell a few tiny corporate "secrets" to Israel and you get 15 years in the slammer.
how many secrets do you think are being funneled through our multinational corporations like , i dont know, chrysler? hummer? you know hummer is owned by the Chinese now right? the same hummers that our troops are driving around in Iraq and Afghanistan while they get blown up? Why dont we put the CEO of hummer in fucking prison for corporate espionage... he didn't sell a few email lists, he sold the whole fucking company!
Now don't get me wrong. I love China and it's culture, literature, people, etc. I'm just saying. Look at the fucking hypocrisy of these 'espionage' cases. Look who it benefits. the rich and the corporate elite. Look who it harms - the peons who want to give out information.
Now, I know this particular peon wanted to sell information, for money. But that is not what precedents like this get used for in the future. He is the 8th in history. 8th. The 8th guy is prosecuted for selling info. The 9th guy is prosecuted for thinking about selling info. The 10th guy is prosecuted for giving out info for free. The 11th guy is prosecuted for journalism.
That's the slippery slope of all this maniacal overcontrol of information, this obsession with secrecy... its not about secrecy, and it's not about protecting important information from espionage activity. It's about pure, blatant, bloody power, and who controls it, and who gets shafted. Espionage is a ruse. It's a red herring. The whole law is fucking corrupt to the point of banality.
Bradley Manning is being charged under Computer Espionage. For what? For "leaking" a gunship video. You know how many gunship videos are on youtube right now? You know there's a website that specializes specifically in gunship footage, all gunship footage all the time?
That's great. We now have three different kinds of Espionage - - - Plain old Espionage, Corporate Espionage, and Computer Espionage. How many more do we need? How many more can we invent? Well, just count the number of government agencies and power centers in the military industrial complex and then you will find out how many variations of thought-control law will be promulgated under 'national security'.
Its all a lie. Everything we see here is junk. It's all junk.
We have to save Toby.
people have old cars, and those features break, and they dont get them repaired.
thus. there are a lot of automobiles with no air conditioning, and no working airbags, on the road right now. look for people with their windows rolled down in summer.
A true Christian company does not approve of homogenic workage
i've always said "dont drive down this street, theres a fucking roundabout and every time you go into it, someone just about kills you. whoever the fucking idiot is who put that roundabout in obviously doesnt live on planet earth. they should have built more bicycle lanes and made it easier to walk around the city instead of this bullshit"
you can find advertisements from the 1980s about radar systems warning people about stuff behind them.
in reality, the cheap models of cars will not have any of that stuff, in order to keep the price low.
that is almost a necessity in this new age, where the distribution of wealth has become so uneven, where you have 9% unemployment measurements (and much higher in reality) , tens of millions of people on food stamps (a historical high), where minimum wage is not enough to live on, let alone buy a car, and more and more people are getting minimum wage jobs, while a very small number of people get most of the income.
you cant sell a bunch of fancy, gadget filled cars in such an economic environment.