incidently, better quality or not, I still can't fscking believe they're branding their drivers... oh, well.
Why not, is it any different from nVidia and their "Detonator" drivers?
And the current Catalyst drivers have been having some issues with Neverwinter Nights, often requiring that they be uninstalled and the user revert to an older version of the drivers.
The main contention that I have is that since they seem to have dropped the pretense that their drivers for the 8500 up were going to be binary compatible with newer cards that they will orphan the 8500 series drivers. Yes, it can happen, ask anyone who has a Rage Maxx and Windows 2000.
Open Source is a philosophy of software distribution, not a standard for setup and maintenance.
Try switching from Mandrake to SuSE without pulling out a few hairs relearning where all the init scripts are kept and how the system is configured and maintained. Then jump to a BSD for shits and giggles.
You still don't get my point, but then I actually think you do and don't care.
Distributing the ISO's without removing whatever code is not covered by an open distribution license such as the GPL is illegal without permission from the author of said code. Period.
It helps that no one is competing against Microsoft with their own code.
Gee, wouldn't that be nice though, how about a Windows PX With More Security! Or a Windows XX It Plays Nicer With Other Peoples Software.
No competition results in what Microsoft has become, a huge bloated inmovable object that tries to force the market where it wants to go rather than nimbly changing to meet the market. A company whose VP can stand up in court and beg to not have their code openly distributed because it's so pathetic it'd cause a massive threat to Government security.
Yeah, competition results in squabbling, backstabbing, one-upmanship and grandstanding and I wouldn't have it any other way.
First, you can only recompile and distribute the code that is covered by the GPL. Any code that UL has developed will be theirs, so you'll come out with a half assed incomplete distro to start with.
Then, after you've rounded up all the pieces that were missing after you removed all the non-GPL code, and got that working, you'd be sued for trademark infringement because United Binary Linux sounds too similar to United Linux and as an entity defames their product.
Kinda the same outlook MS has taken on Lindows similarities to the Windows name. Unlike Windows, however, you'll have no leg to stand on because United Linux can not be considered a generic computer term.
He signs on to whatever development program UL comes up with to address the issues of testing and certification that they feel will best ensure their customer base of a stable platform.
The article only states (and indeed bitches) that their will be no FREE binaries, not that binaries will not be provided to those who wish to develop for the distro in some way or another.
Perhaps a registration process and and a license agreement process the developer will have to go through guaranteeing they won't redistribute the software.
Perhaps this process will weed out those who are not willing to seriously deal with the boring tasks of software development like product testing and documenting features. Business customers are funny about wanting things like that.
Oh, you could compile and distribute the GPL'd code, but you couldn't redistribute whatever code the UnitedLinux contributers put into their distro that isn't GPL'd and that's covered by their licenses. Because then YOU'd be the one violating copyright and be very much in the wrong.
Also, you couldn't call it UnitedLinux unless you were releasing the entire distro, which as I already mentioned, you can't, so you're doubly screwed.
They are doing nothing illegal. I'm more than sure that the pack of lawyers any company needs to survive today has already gone over everything they're doing. So get over it.
Uh, if you haven't noticed, Linuxiso.org works very much with the various distro's and tries to help them out with their money making.
For one, they don't post ISOs that haven't been distributed by the original distro. So for say... SuSE, they have the Sparc installation version and the x86 Live Eval ISOs, but not the current retail installation ISOs.
Same with cheapbytes. They try to work with the vendors and not actually rape them financially.
It's an interesting concept, I know, but some people believe people the distros have a right to try to make a profit.
Don't forget to make sure all your friends submit to the RIAA/MPAA body cavity search and seizure prior to sharing your DVD with them.
In order to display your DVD on their wireless headsets, it would have to be broadcast to them and broadcasting a DVD would be restricted by copyright unless you pay the licensing fee. Don't you read the FBI warnings at the start of the DVDs? (God knows you can't fast forward past them)
It isn't intended to be something that you compile at home per se. More like a common development pool for the member distro's to build on to guarantee compatability and to give 3rd party developers a base target to work with.
Yes, your absolutely right. So many mom and pop small businesses want to spend hour upon hour compiling sourcecode and puzzling over sketchy documentation. That is when the GPL developer gets around to actually writing any documenation.
Gentoo and other source only distro's will continue to be a marginal hobby for hackers and the l33t.
Who cares what RMS or Debian want their OS to be called, it's what the majority of it's users actually call it that matters. For those that actually use the distro's name in conversation, it's Debian, not GNU/Debian/Linux or GNU/Debian/HURD.
If you doubt it, you mentioned Debian 3 times and the only time you said it was GNU/Debian is when you declared that it's what Debian calls it.
Yeah, any day now they'll declare that TrueType is going open source, the OSX desktop is going to allow themes and they're releasing an x86 version of OSX regardless of how their hardware department feels.
Apple is as proprietary, controlling and greedy as MS on the best of days. Remember, these people will sue you for talking about new features before Steve can tell you how wonderful they are.
I think that's why this consolidation will be a key advantage for them.
Businesses can have multiple global locations, use the preferred Linux distrobution in each locale and not have to worry about software incompatabilities.
Plus since there are so many standards, it's more likely that a single shared distribution will comply with all of them then the current fragmented distros.
I see the standardization being more in the way of file structure, libraries and kernel. It makes more sense then 4 companies distributing the exact same setup but with different logos. This is a standardization, not a merger.
They would still offer different setup, administration tools and packages but developers could reliably release a binary and know that it will work on 4 distros at the same time, rather than compiling, storing and maintaining a version for each commercial distro.
The main reason behind the Holy Distro War is that the children of Linus disagree on the manner in which he is to be worshipped.
There are the Debianites, who believe that all their script-tures should be free and that no script-ture shall be trusted till it's mettle has been proven. Many of these also worship the idol RMS and intend to forsake the word of Linus when RMS has completed his book of HURD.
There are the Sourceites, who believe that the script-tures must be compiled by each worshipper individually and that no precompiled script-ture shall be trusted. Many Sourceites care naught for the stability of their systems nor do they utilize it for more than benchmarking, after which they brag to others of how their system r0kz.
There are the Newbies, those who are recent converts to the word of Linus and have varying levels of faith. Many have run from the false promises of the Anti-Linux Bill G seeking salvation in the promise of stability and freedom from avarice. Many of Linus' followers take pity on the Newbies and work dilligently to provide them a comfortable place at the altar of Linus.
The motives of the Helpers of the Newbie are many. Most do it as faithful keepers of the Word of Linus, spreading his word far and wide. Many charge a small pittence for their work although they endure much distaste from others for it for legion are those who feel that they deserve the fruits of others labor for free.
Each believes his path to salvation is the right one and woe to the unlucky churl who defames it.
As to living off the community, the community is only as good as their interest in a project lasts.
Have you taken a good long look at the sheer number of projects languishing about on Sourceforge that haven't been contributed to in a year or more? And how many of those are efforts to create a better Notepad?
I could care less if they keep their own installers so long as they share the hardware compatibility with each other.
One of the more maddening aspects of installing Linux is that Distro A will recognize hardware that Distro B doesn't, even though they were released within a few weeks of each other.
Or Distro A will add obscure patches to their kernel that you never knew you needed till you try and install Distro B.
As to the idea that one or more parties will drop their installers, I doubt it. The installer is part of the 'experience' that seperates one distro from another, such as Connectiva's use of games while you wait for the install to finish.
While this consolidation will bring more consistency to the distros, look for more distinctive (and proprietary) touches to distinguish them from each other such as exclusive icon sets, graphical boot screens, branded GUI's, etc.
I haven't had a lot of experience with SuSE but from what I've seen it's target at the less experienced user and again it's better suited for desktop use.
Odd, is that why IBM puts SuSE on it's mainframes?:)
Seriously, I've had more satisfaction from using SuSE than any other distro for either desktop or server.
Chris required capital to get his venture rolling, capital provided by the Queen of Spain, amongst others. No one had any assurances that they would get back what they put in, but they took the gamble. They got a new world, untold wealth (let's not argue the devestation they caused, that's another issue), and incredibly hardy food sources.
Space exploration today is exactly the same. Consider this, there exists in space the probable availability of more mineral deposits than we could ever dream of using up. Mining on the moon or mars could eventually eliminate the need for terrestrial mining and provide back trillions of dollars on the investments.
The environmental benefit of moving mining, industrial production (and the wastes it produces), and energy production off the earth is incredible and achievable.
Here's another thing to consider, the Earth is horribly overpopulated and we're breeding more all the time. Eventually these people will have to go somewhere.
Now, why should the government finance this rather than private concerns? Two reasons, a)The shear size and scope of what needs to be accomplished isn't something just anyone can pick up and run with and b) maintaining the status quo is a corporate mantra. Why would the energy sector invest in power satelites when they can charge ever increasing amounts of money for dwindling fuel reserves. Most other industries are the same, new ideas that don't capitalize on their current cash cows rock their cozy boats.
Regardless, you'll disagree due to the irrationality of position. I mean geez, space? Best leave that to Hollywood sound stages, there's obviously nothing in it for us....
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Why not, is it any different from nVidia and their "Detonator" drivers?
And the current Catalyst drivers have been having some issues with Neverwinter Nights, often requiring that they be uninstalled and the user revert to an older version of the drivers.
The main contention that I have is that since they seem to have dropped the pretense that their drivers for the 8500 up were going to be binary compatible with newer cards that they will orphan the 8500 series drivers. Yes, it can happen, ask anyone who has a Rage Maxx and Windows 2000.
Are you daft?
Open Source is a philosophy of software distribution, not a standard for setup and maintenance.
Try switching from Mandrake to SuSE without pulling out a few hairs relearning where all the init scripts are kept and how the system is configured and maintained. Then jump to a BSD for shits and giggles.
You still don't get my point, but then I actually think you do and don't care.
Distributing the ISO's without removing whatever code is not covered by an open distribution license such as the GPL is illegal without permission from the author of said code. Period.
It helps that no one is competing against Microsoft with their own code.
Gee, wouldn't that be nice though, how about a Windows PX With More Security! Or a Windows XX It Plays Nicer With Other Peoples Software.
No competition results in what Microsoft has become, a huge bloated inmovable object that tries to force the market where it wants to go rather than nimbly changing to meet the market. A company whose VP can stand up in court and beg to not have their code openly distributed because it's so pathetic it'd cause a massive threat to Government security.
Yeah, competition results in squabbling, backstabbing, one-upmanship and grandstanding and I wouldn't have it any other way.
First, you can only recompile and distribute the code that is covered by the GPL. Any code that UL has developed will be theirs, so you'll come out with a half assed incomplete distro to start with.
Then, after you've rounded up all the pieces that were missing after you removed all the non-GPL code, and got that working, you'd be sued for trademark infringement because United Binary Linux sounds too similar to United Linux and as an entity defames their product.
Kinda the same outlook MS has taken on Lindows similarities to the Windows name. Unlike Windows, however, you'll have no leg to stand on because United Linux can not be considered a generic computer term.
And that's why you can't do it.
He signs on to whatever development program UL comes up with to address the issues of testing and certification that they feel will best ensure their customer base of a stable platform.
The article only states (and indeed bitches) that their will be no FREE binaries, not that binaries will not be provided to those who wish to develop for the distro in some way or another.
Perhaps a registration process and and a license agreement process the developer will have to go through guaranteeing they won't redistribute the software.
Perhaps this process will weed out those who are not willing to seriously deal with the boring tasks of software development like product testing and documenting features. Business customers are funny about wanting things like that.
Oh, you could compile and distribute the GPL'd code, but you couldn't redistribute whatever code the UnitedLinux contributers put into their distro that isn't GPL'd and that's covered by their licenses. Because then YOU'd be the one violating copyright and be very much in the wrong.
Also, you couldn't call it UnitedLinux unless you were releasing the entire distro, which as I already mentioned, you can't, so you're doubly screwed.
They are doing nothing illegal. I'm more than sure that the pack of lawyers any company needs to survive today has already gone over everything they're doing. So get over it.
Uh, if you haven't noticed, Linuxiso.org works very much with the various distro's and tries to help them out with their money making.
For one, they don't post ISOs that haven't been distributed by the original distro. So for say... SuSE, they have the Sparc installation version and the x86 Live Eval ISOs, but not the current retail installation ISOs.
Same with cheapbytes. They try to work with the vendors and not actually rape them financially.
It's an interesting concept, I know, but some people believe people the distros have a right to try to make a profit.
If the source code is available, then why do the developers need binaries? Aren't these the people most likely to recompile the system from scratch?
The only reason I can see at this stage for a binary distro would be for demo purposes.
Don't forget to make sure all your friends submit to the RIAA/MPAA body cavity search and seizure prior to sharing your DVD with them.
In order to display your DVD on their wireless headsets, it would have to be broadcast to them and broadcasting a DVD would be restricted by copyright unless you pay the licensing fee. Don't you read the FBI warnings at the start of the DVDs? (God knows you can't fast forward past them)
It isn't intended to be something that you compile at home per se. More like a common development pool for the member distro's to build on to guarantee compatability and to give 3rd party developers a base target to work with.
Yes, your absolutely right. So many mom and pop small businesses want to spend hour upon hour compiling sourcecode and puzzling over sketchy documentation. That is when the GPL developer gets around to actually writing any documenation.
Gentoo and other source only distro's will continue to be a marginal hobby for hackers and the l33t.
If you doubt it, you mentioned Debian 3 times and the only time you said it was GNU/Debian is when you declared that it's what Debian calls it.
Back when I had an G2 MX SuSE automatically used the open source nv drivers right from the start.
I had no serious problems when I upgraded to a Radeon either and am currently enjoying the dual monitor support.
Try installing the latest version of X.
Are you forgetting how apes**t RMS went when people started using the Linux kernel instead of waiting for his HURD like good little kiddies?
Why do you think he continues to insist that it be called GNU/Linux? Calling it linux alone steals his thunder and hijacks 'his' revolution.
And you can bet Bitkeeper won't be allowed near the HURD's source either.
Yeah, any day now they'll declare that TrueType is going open source, the OSX desktop is going to allow themes and they're releasing an x86 version of OSX regardless of how their hardware department feels.
Apple is as proprietary, controlling and greedy as MS on the best of days. Remember, these people will sue you for talking about new features before Steve can tell you how wonderful they are.
Turbolinux pretty much owns the Asian markets with the minor exception of Hancom in Korea.
I think that's why this consolidation will be a key advantage for them.
Businesses can have multiple global locations, use the preferred Linux distrobution in each locale and not have to worry about software incompatabilities.
Plus since there are so many standards, it's more likely that a single shared distribution will comply with all of them then the current fragmented distros.
I see the standardization being more in the way of file structure, libraries and kernel. It makes more sense then 4 companies distributing the exact same setup but with different logos. This is a standardization, not a merger.
They would still offer different setup, administration tools and packages but developers could reliably release a binary and know that it will work on 4 distros at the same time, rather than compiling, storing and maintaining a version for each commercial distro.
The main reason behind the Holy Distro War is that the children of Linus disagree on the manner in which he is to be worshipped.
There are the Debianites, who believe that all their script-tures should be free and that no script-ture shall be trusted till it's mettle has been proven. Many of these also worship the idol RMS and intend to forsake the word of Linus when RMS has completed his book of HURD.
There are the Sourceites, who believe that the script-tures must be compiled by each worshipper individually and that no precompiled script-ture shall be trusted. Many Sourceites care naught for the stability of their systems nor do they utilize it for more than benchmarking, after which they brag to others of how their system r0kz.
There are the Newbies, those who are recent converts to the word of Linus and have varying levels of faith. Many have run from the false promises of the Anti-Linux Bill G seeking salvation in the promise of stability and freedom from avarice. Many of Linus' followers take pity on the Newbies and work dilligently to provide them a comfortable place at the altar of Linus.
The motives of the Helpers of the Newbie are many. Most do it as faithful keepers of the Word of Linus, spreading his word far and wide. Many charge a small pittence for their work although they endure much distaste from others for it for legion are those who feel that they deserve the fruits of others labor for free.
Each believes his path to salvation is the right one and woe to the unlucky churl who defames it.
This may come as a shock to you, so sit down.
Some people don't like Debian.
As to living off the community, the community is only as good as their interest in a project lasts.
Have you taken a good long look at the sheer number of projects languishing about on Sourceforge that haven't been contributed to in a year or more? And how many of those are efforts to create a better Notepad?
I could care less if they keep their own installers so long as they share the hardware compatibility with each other.
One of the more maddening aspects of installing Linux is that Distro A will recognize hardware that Distro B doesn't, even though they were released within a few weeks of each other.
Or Distro A will add obscure patches to their kernel that you never knew you needed till you try and install Distro B.
As to the idea that one or more parties will drop their installers, I doubt it. The installer is part of the 'experience' that seperates one distro from another, such as Connectiva's use of games while you wait for the install to finish.
While this consolidation will bring more consistency to the distros, look for more distinctive (and proprietary) touches to distinguish them from each other such as exclusive icon sets, graphical boot screens, branded GUI's, etc.
SuSE changed their policy on free iso downloads some time ago, around 7.0 I think.
You can download the individual packages (all 6 gigs of it) or you can download the 'live' evaluation iso, but not the actual installation iso's.
To me it seems fair enough, they have to pay their rent like anyone else and bandwidth ain't free.
Odd, is that why IBM puts SuSE on it's mainframes? :)
Seriously, I've had more satisfaction from using SuSE than any other distro for either desktop or server.
Back to the Christopher Columbus example.
Chris required capital to get his venture rolling, capital provided by the Queen of Spain, amongst others. No one had any assurances that they would get back what they put in, but they took the gamble. They got a new world, untold wealth (let's not argue the devestation they caused, that's another issue), and incredibly hardy food sources.
Space exploration today is exactly the same. Consider this, there exists in space the probable availability of more mineral deposits than we could ever dream of using up. Mining on the moon or mars could eventually eliminate the need for terrestrial mining and provide back trillions of dollars on the investments.
The environmental benefit of moving mining, industrial production (and the wastes it produces), and energy production off the earth is incredible and achievable.
Here's another thing to consider, the Earth is horribly overpopulated and we're breeding more all the time. Eventually these people will have to go somewhere.
Now, why should the government finance this rather than private concerns? Two reasons, a)The shear size and scope of what needs to be accomplished isn't something just anyone can pick up and run with and b) maintaining the status quo is a corporate mantra. Why would the energy sector invest in power satelites when they can charge ever increasing amounts of money for dwindling fuel reserves. Most other industries are the same, new ideas that don't capitalize on their current cash cows rock their cozy boats.
Regardless, you'll disagree due to the irrationality of position. I mean geez, space? Best leave that to Hollywood sound stages, there's obviously nothing in it for us....