For random web browsing on assorted sites, boot up from a Linux boot CD. Your entire OS will be in memory, nothing on your HD is touched.
Doubt the average user would do that since they either 1)don't know its an option or 2)tend to be afraid of Linux. Now, being 'tech support' for my friends I get see to see what they are doing and where. I have to admit, its seems to be quite rare that they are going to porn sites since porn sites have gotten this bad press for causing system issues. It surprised me at first but then I found out where they were all getting their 'porn fix'. Pretty much every torrent site has a 'porn' section with a huge porn selection of full videos. No malware, full video's at a much higher frame rate then those shady porn websites.
I enjoy tobacco and don't mind dying younger. They're not doing anything wrong by supplying what I ask of them. They might be abusing dimlows but that does not mean they're abusing me. What they are doing _is_ right.
This is something I wonder about. I do consider tobacco companies an evil force in some sense. They're useful to governments because of taxes so governments certainly don't want to fight them. Let's see, tobacco isn't something that's probably harmful - it has been well proven scientifically that there's tobacco causes health problems. It is also known that it's not causing some minor problems but causes significant problems like cancer, with a statistically significant reduction in life extensiveness. Plus, it's known that tobacco is, because of nicotine, addictive.
It seems like a major part of this is that smoking/tobacco use has been around for a while before modern medicine and before definitive proof of its ill effects. Imagine this - I invent a device that, when used, gives you huge, orgasmic physical pleasure. That would be addictive enough psychologically. Now imagine this device also has slight physically addictive effects and, most importantly, gives you an above-normal dose of gamma radiation, high enough so that a significant amount of device users would eventually succumb to cancer or radiation sickness caused by it. Would I really be allowed to market and sell the device? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't, certainly not unless the government would stand to gain very serious revenue from taxes on that, and even then I'm doubtful.
To turn off those sounds bring up the Avast User Interface. In the top right of Avast box click on the Settings button. Under the Sounds tab (fourth from bottom) uncheck the Enable avast! sounds. Your done and it'll shut up.
A shame you posted as AC - I would have modded you up.
Yes, of course malware will run on Linux. And, you do point out that the malware was installed from a subverted "trusted source".
You also remind me that I've been stupid sometimes. I've been lazy, and failed to double check the md5 checksums of tarballs on occasion. With that Unreal story in mind, maybe I'll be less lazy in the future. Thanks for the reminder, Mr. Coward.
As a Linux user myself, I forget about how possible it is too. Would explain the new (that I've noticed) function in Ubuntu 10.04 that marks any program downloaded from a non-trusted as Non-Executable (you can make it executable by right-clicking it and checking the Executable box under Property-Permissions) to prevent you from blindly installing possible malware. Reminds me of Android's way of programs, preventing you from installing anything randomly unless you at least somewhat understand it might be bad to just install anything.
(1) Your first argument seems kinda silly, and a bit of a false dichotomy to me. "If we give them Macs to use, they'll never know how to use a computer in the real world!"...Really?
First off, using computers in school (to me at least) seems more like it's about teaching basic computer concepts and technological literacy. Doesn't matter if it's running Windows, Gentoo (or whatever) or OS X, not "how to use this particular OS so you won't fail in the corporate world". Just like, say, high school science isn't about memorising all the constants or unit conversion rates. (Not that that's *necessarily* how things are always taught, but I think we can all agree it's how it should be.)
Knowing the very basics of a computer doesn't change OS to OS in the terms of 'how to open a file'. Thing is in a school setting like this and in a business you'll have to sometimes go beyond basics at times, sometimes following a printed out sheet/email, and terminology does change. Telling a user who has no Windows experence to 'Ok, now open up the Command Prompt which is under the Accessories folder' doesn't work on OSX or Linux and this can take them a few moments to figure out where the Accessories folder is (in the Start menu under the All Programs, a place some people will just assume you would have known by default). On linux and OSX (by what I'm seeing on an OSX site) its called Terminal which is on OSX located in the Accessories/Utilities folder. While I understand this is a very basic example, when you start using OS specific terms/configuration programs issues can start happening. And it is impressive at times just how many of the basics some people take for granted of each OS and how they forget that others wouldn't know (like how the menubar changes on OSX depending on which program is currently in use, a OSX only concept. Tends to throw Mac newbies for a little time).
As for your science comment of 'high school science isn't about memorising all... unit conversion rates', it isn't all about memorizing conversion rates but it is about know basic unit rates that are standard in your country (being Metric or Imperial). Not knowing basic unit rates that are standard in the country your in can be hard at times, bad at others. I deal with people from other countries and see these issues and some fun results like 'how tall are you?' 'I'm 180cm.' 'Ummm... whats that in feet/inches?'. So not knowing the basics of a standard can lead to issues.
Second, in all likelihood they'll be forced to learn how to use Windows at some point in their lives anyway, so this gives them a broader background right off the bat. How is being able to use multiple OSes a bad thing?
Learning multiple OSes isn't a bad thing as long as one of them is of course the industry standard which this school is wanting to forbid. As the article quotes Hayes (and you mentioned too) "We have one platform, And that's going to be the Mac." This is neither multiple OSes nor the industry standard, and (to me at least) akin to stating 'We have one unit system of measurement, and thats going to be the Metric system.' It doesn't matter how you feel about the Metric system and its advantages/disadvantages, it isn't the industry standard in the US and would cause issues as basic unit systems that are in use would be missed leading to a need of re-training for these kids.
And third, we all know the average corporate drone is so tech-illiterate that they can barely turn on their machine without help from the guys over in IT (this comes off sounding arrogant, but hey, it's the truth), so it's not like all the other Windows-using schools now have a huge head start in teaching computer literacy.
As I mentioned about basic OS terminology. Even if you don't know tons of Windows, you'll know what the Windows Button is (the Windows icon in the lower left part of the screen), where the All Programs folder is in the Start menu. As like i
Want to know why certain schools are forcing kids to buy an overpriced laptop from one specific supplier?
Not even as simple as forcing the kids to buy for a specific supplier. Notice that the school is the ones more then happy to sell them the computer completely outright and they aren't suggested to go to any store that will sell them? They are getting a kick back. A huge one.
First of all, it's really rare to find hardware peripherals today that aren't compatible right out of the box.
And yet I've gotten complaints of how support for peripherals was lacking from friends and family and why in the end they get the Apple equivalent just so they have OSX support. And they've shown me the problems.
in the real world where I live, and manage over 400 Macs and about a hundred XP boxes
What Mac OS? I'm hoping that if your going to compare an old Microsoft OS from 2001 you'll make sure to keep it equal and only compare it to the Mac equivalent which would be OSX 10.0 Cheetah or OSX 10.1 Puma and not the newest ones either being OSX 10.5 Leopard from 2007 or OSX 10.6 Snow Leopard from 2009. You'll find that when you compare an OS from Microsoft from 2001 you have a better, more stable support record when you compare it to the ones Mac made at that time too. You'll also find the hardware support was much better (since those from 2001 were only supported on PowerPC chips and not the 2005+ models Intel chips.) You'll also notice that software compatibility is also much better on WinXP then on either Cheetah or Puma. So unless your comparing equal OS's and not Mac's latest and greatest vs XP then its a moot issue at best.
I wonder how much of a kick-back on their networking and servers the school is getting from Apple for forcing the students onto MacBooks.
Considering, according to the article, the school is going to be selling them to the parents as the middleman and not the normal stores, my bet is a lot.
I completely agree with you here. These are students being taught for their future and will need the skills required for their future jobs. Pushing the Mac platform is a horrible idea and a form of playing russian roulette with their computer skills and future job possibilities.
Why? I'd be because the IT admins at the school didn't want to spend hundreds of man hours per week cleaning up spyware and malware off the kids laptops when they break.
I don't say this because I am a mac fan, I say this because I worked at a corporate environment where people got into all sorts of trouble on their windows laptops.
Usually the excuses was they let their kids play with it. We suspected otherwise.
Sure, OS X isn't 100% secure from malware, but its harder to get into trouble with it.
Your forgetting, these are kids that will download things from the things like BitTorrent. Things like that OSX botnet program and whatever other malware in some of those programs. Hell, list it as a 'Mac haxor program' and I'm willing to bet many of these kids will download it. You can't protect a computer from user stupidity. Not to mention, there are millions of millions of Windows PC's being used by the public and they aren't all around grinding to a halt under all this malware. A basic software check of free antivirus/malware software would handle most basic problems which could be pre-set up since they school would just image the drive for each laptop.
Or how about "No, I'm not going to buy my kid a POS Mac."? I'm sure at least one Windows or Linux adminstrator's child goes to high school there.
Or they did the research and have notice issues with Macs like how those new iMacs had broken screen issues, or how the MBP's had failing graphic cards, or the Snow Leopard bug deleting the home folder... You might be a bit worried. Sure, you could have mailed them back and waited weeks for the repairs, but when your talking school work you need something reliable. Not to mention, not everyone has a good experience with OSX (just check the Apple support forums) and why would anyone want to buy another laptop when their current one works perfectly anyways?
You know who has trouble jumping between OS's? People over 40. Most kids going into high school today have no problem sitting down at a computer and figuring it out. They've grown up interacting with computers of all shapes and sizes their whole lives.
Well since most parents of teens are over 40, I'm going to bet they have only 1 OS at home which would leave junior typically with the total OS experience of... 1 OS. The family computers OS... Nor are OS's as homogenized as you seem to think. Sure, opening and closing a file tends to be the same, but when something goes wrong (and they will, regardless of the OS) thats where the differences really begin to show.
'We have one platform,' Hayes said. 'And that's going to be the Mac.'"
It reeks of a specific someone who's either a) getting a kickback or b) is a big Apple fan and believes everyone should be using Apple because it's clearly the superior platform.
I can guarantee you the school is getting one hell of a kick back for these Macs. As the article mentions 'Parents can pay for the computers upfront or lease them from the district'. Now if the district is the ones trying to be the middle man and wanting the money that just screams kick back.
Whether the school is willing to lease the computers or not is beyond the point. Telling me that my prefer brand of any product is not good enough and I must only buy the brand they want me to buy is unacceptable. This is a school that is supposed to educate children, not dictate to them what is an acceptable choice and what isn't and tell them to not bring/hide what they would prefer to use is completely uncalled for.
That means you will have students that can work with a small segment of the computers which will seriously hurt their chances.
I was going to write a response about how a given person should be able to use any other popular desktop OS after having learned another, but I realized it wasn't true. Every single Mac and Linux user I know can muddle their way through Windows when necessary. But I know a lot of Windows users and administrators who cannot use anything but Windows. (And refuse to try.)
And I'll bet those that use Mac and Linux grew up with a Windows box before moving onto Mac and Linux. If you have training from before, you'll remember it. And I've had a few friends that only had been using Mac for years and forgot/got lost with Windows 7.
but when your dealing with the future of teens don't gamble on them with your preferences. Teach them what they need or you'll be doing more harm then good. Or as so many love to scream 'Think of the children'.
I don't think you've been to a high school lately or college lately... Teen usage of Macs is much higher than in the general population. A survey of the Cornell residential network pegged Mac usage at around 21% in 2007. I find it hard to swallow that more than 20% of any Ivy league school's graduates are simply unfit for the modern workplace (to paraphrase your words) because they did their homework on OS X instead of Windows.
And how many of these teens own/run a business? How many of them also made sure to learn to use Windows? I also noticed that Cornell's own librarys only uses Windows and Windows programs. I also know that 100% of the non-press users that go to the WWDC use Macs. Businesses still use Windows. Doesn't matter which niche demographic you quote, when your dealing with the corporate business demographic you need to pay attention to the corporate business demographic regardless of your personal opinion. Also according to your own survey link the official numbers are 21% are using Macs, but 4% of those are using their Macs to run Windows. That leaves you with 17%, not the 20% your quoting. Not to mention quoting numbers from a single university doesn't matter much in the long run. Now if that survey had also included other universities then we might have something.
That said, I'd rather see netbooks, or other commodity hardware, running Linux in the schools.
As a Linux user, I would too. But as Windows is still the standard and businesses are busy figuring out how to do a complete upgrade to Windows 7 which shows no interest in a complete system/computer usage overhaul (due to expense in hardware/software/training), my bets on letting them learn Windows so they'll be prepared when they enter the real world. Though I would suggest if the students wanted to learn other OS's then dual boot either Linux or if they like the challenge/know someone who can do it, dual boot a Hackintosh if they wish to learn OSX. Its all about personal choice in their personal life.
If you disagree, name one skill -- just one -- that kids ought to learn, that can only be performed on a Windows PC. Or name an invaluable educational resource that can only be accessed by Windows users.
Like I said in my first post, kids ought to learn basic Windows skills since most businesses run on Windows. Having to walk people through the most basic Windows commands so they are able to use their Windows-only business software and navigate to the project files for the project is a giant waste of time and money for any business. Think, if your hiring someone would you choose to hire someone who know nothing of the systems your running that runs on 90% of all computers and have to waste time, money and effort to train them to use your systems as well as make sure to field there other questions in the future about Windows basics? Or just hire the person who knows basic Windows and won't need nearly as much training? This is what its like in the real world and why most people who are going for a job from basic secretary to most manager levels will place on their resumes that they have an understanding of Microsoft Windows because they know odds are highly in their favor that these will help them. Mac OSX skills are rare in need or even in use in most businesses so they won't help get that job.
AutoCAD is a industry standard software that is used in many businesses and is Windows only. So any business that relies on AutoCAD is going to be Windows only.
Also, many businesses use.Net and that again is a Windows only option. While you can of course use Mono, it's not a perfect replacement and some.Net commands don't fully work, and in a business enviroment many companies would rather take the fully supported version then one that might cause issues even if your not going to be coding in it, if they use it, they'll more likely be using Windows. Saves headaches and possible glitches leaving it down to again the person must understand how to use basic Windows concepts and commands.
Another system you might not be aware of is that one of the largest Point Of Sales systems is Micros. What you might not see is that Micros is a Microsoft only product, meaning of course that behind the scenes, the companies that utilize these systems run on Windows since they are all networked. So any part of the job that will need you touching a work computer that isn't a part of the Micros system will be a Windows system and will need general Windows understanding.
While I understand that it doesn't seem fair or right that so many use Windows (I'm a Linux user myself), you can't just say no to learn the industry standard that will be found in most businesses. Even if you don't see the Windows icons, you'd be surprised what truly does run on Windows only.
The reason why open source doesn't make much money is because it's essentially a volunteer effort. The vast majority of people that do FOSS work do it unpaid, and on their own time.
Total BS. 75% of Linux code now written by paid developers. Just because the software is free to use, doesn't mean its made for free. Its like free public areas and events. Sure, if it's your town then your taxes paid for it (if you pay taxes). But people that don't pay taxes are also able to join and use them for free like people on welfare, visitors out of town/country, children... they don't pay anything and if you've ever gone to an event out of town, odds are it was paid with the taxes collected by that town which isn't your taxes and that means it was free too.
Well since open wifi is just a public-like place where obviously people will do illegal things since they can't always be monitored, lets move to banning open, public spaces. We've all seen how things like drug deals are done there. Along with things like drinking in public, illegal panhandlers, illegally sleeping on public benches, illegally urinating in public, vandalism, dogs being illegally let off leash ignoring leash laws. By gosh, these open public anythings are just breeding grounds of illegal activity.
And why mac books? I don't like windows anymore than the rest of the/. crowd but if you want them to be prepared for the high tech future why not get Dells with Windows 7 at half the cost.
I completely agree with you here. These are students being taught for their future and will need the skills required for their future jobs. Pushing the Mac platform is a horrible idea and a form of playing russian roulette with their computer skills and future job possibilities.
Regardless of anyones personal opinion of computer OS's, Windows still rules in both the personal and business OS level. And I don't care what anyone else has to say on the level of 'but, but, Macs are slowly gaining.' Thats great for Mac. But here's a good dose of reality. OSX was released in March of 2001. Its now June of 2010, just over 9 years later. Mac has been able to improve its market share from 1-2% to 6-9%. That means less then one in 10 computers is a Mac even after 9 years and one hell of an aggressive marketing campaign (we've all seen those 'Pc
vs Mac' commercials). This idea is set to be set in motion for 2011, and considering it takes on average a person to graduate from HS a total of 4 years your looking at someone graduating with Mac-only education in 2015 being 5 years from now. I don't see Mac being over 50% market share by then to even consider itself the OS leader let alone getting over 33% if the market can even fragment enough to split evenly between Windows/Mac/Linux (without going into others like BSD, etc...). That means you will have students that can work with a small segment of the computers which will seriously hurt their chances. Any employer that has computers needed in the job will just look at the young adult and see that not only will they need training on the basics of the job, but how to use the basics of their workplace OS that is the business leader. And training isn't free, it's expensive and they will be more likely over looked for someone with Windows experience which means less training and money saved.
Also to consider is things like hardware compatibility. Most hardware is written to support Windows, with some to little to no support for Mac. Sure, Macs play great with other Mac hardware but if Apple doesn't make it things get iffy (again, depends on what it is your talking about exactly). These students go home and will want to use their laptops with their devices at home. Have a blackberry phone? Good luck doing anything but the basics of syncing (and no, showing me some complex set of instructions doesn't count. We are talking students of different interests and backgrounds, not the slashdot crowd). Printers and scanners? Again, depends on which ones and how old they are
Hackers belonging to a group called Goatse obtained the e-mail addresses after uncovering a web application on AT&T's website that returned an iPad user's e-mail address when it was sent specially written queries
My heart goes out to the poor journalists heading out to the great google in order to get their big scoop on goatse.
Well that would explain why I didn't mention the touch screen computers from the 80's that are used in businesses for sales...
Let's be honest here: either you're a n00b or a liar. You told us that tablets were first OSS.
And where did I say that tablets were OSS? This is the first time I've even mentioned OSS. Believe it or not, but the computer world isn't limited to Windows, Mac and the rest are OSS.
When you got called out on it you acted like you knew all along and claimed that the OS really wasn't a tablet OS. Now you've been called out on that too. You're wrong. Any way you try to slice it at this point you're wrong and attempting to back peddle is only going to make you look like more of an ass who doesn't know when to give in when you've been proven wrong.
From your own Wikipedia link, it states that WinXP tablet edition was made it 2004 (opposed to the normal WinXP made in 2001, 3 years before), and was an 'edition' (meaning MODIFIED version) and when its modified it means that this was a later thought of idea and not the starting one. You just proved me right, not wrong.
It's ok that OSS isn't the Superman of computing. It doesn't have to be to have something worth paying attention to. Most of us who are pragmatic about computing gave up the fanboi fantasies a long time ago. Join us in the real world and either take some time to listen and learn or do us a favor and stop lying to make your little cult look good. Ok?
Again, you bring up OSS like its some kind of hidden trump card. I never mentioned OSS at any point, you brought it up to try to use it against me. And 'join the real world' and stop lying that OSS isn't good for computering? Try to remember, most servers run OSS, routers, many desktops (even the Apple's own OSX is made from OSS...) How much more 'real world' is needed?
While your bullshit post got modded up, the fact of the matter is that to anyone who really matters here you look like a ninth grade asshat who thinks he's the king of the junior high computer lab. Most of us have seen people like you before and we know well enough to avoid you when possible.
Don't worry, everyone here that can really think knows that when you make up 'facts' (like claiming I've been trying to push OSS when never mentioning it or even hinting at it...) to try to disprove others, it shows you to be a stupid troll. Thanks for trying though.
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For random web browsing on assorted sites, boot up from a Linux boot CD. Your entire OS will be in memory, nothing on your HD is touched.
Doubt the average user would do that since they either 1)don't know its an option or 2)tend to be afraid of Linux. Now, being 'tech support' for my friends I get see to see what they are doing and where. I have to admit, its seems to be quite rare that they are going to porn sites since porn sites have gotten this bad press for causing system issues. It surprised me at first but then I found out where they were all getting their 'porn fix'. Pretty much every torrent site has a 'porn' section with a huge porn selection of full videos. No malware, full video's at a much higher frame rate then those shady porn websites.
This is something I wonder about. I do consider tobacco companies an evil force in some sense. They're useful to governments because of taxes so governments certainly don't want to fight them. Let's see, tobacco isn't something that's probably harmful - it has been well proven scientifically that there's tobacco causes health problems. It is also known that it's not causing some minor problems but causes significant problems like cancer, with a statistically significant reduction in life extensiveness. Plus, it's known that tobacco is, because of nicotine, addictive. It seems like a major part of this is that smoking/tobacco use has been around for a while before modern medicine and before definitive proof of its ill effects. Imagine this - I invent a device that, when used, gives you huge, orgasmic physical pleasure. That would be addictive enough psychologically. Now imagine this device also has slight physically addictive effects and, most importantly, gives you an above-normal dose of gamma radiation, high enough so that a significant amount of device users would eventually succumb to cancer or radiation sickness caused by it. Would I really be allowed to market and sell the device? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't, certainly not unless the government would stand to gain very serious revenue from taxes on that, and even then I'm doubtful.
Sure you would be able to. Its called 'high glucose corn syrup'. You can find it in MANY different food products and it causes serious health issues like unhealthy weight gain (they are 'empty' calories). It also causes Diabetes, a life changing and possible fatal health condition. Its even been linked to possible liver scarring. And the best part about this? Its not heavily taxed like cigarettes.
To turn off those sounds bring up the Avast User Interface. In the top right of Avast box click on the Settings button. Under the Sounds tab (fourth from bottom) uncheck the Enable avast! sounds. Your done and it'll shut up.
A shame you posted as AC - I would have modded you up.
Yes, of course malware will run on Linux. And, you do point out that the malware was installed from a subverted "trusted source".
You also remind me that I've been stupid sometimes. I've been lazy, and failed to double check the md5 checksums of tarballs on occasion. With that Unreal story in mind, maybe I'll be less lazy in the future. Thanks for the reminder, Mr. Coward.
As a Linux user myself, I forget about how possible it is too. Would explain the new (that I've noticed) function in Ubuntu 10.04 that marks any program downloaded from a non-trusted as Non-Executable (you can make it executable by right-clicking it and checking the Executable box under Property-Permissions) to prevent you from blindly installing possible malware. Reminds me of Android's way of programs, preventing you from installing anything randomly unless you at least somewhat understand it might be bad to just install anything.
(1) Your first argument seems kinda silly, and a bit of a false dichotomy to me. "If we give them Macs to use, they'll never know how to use a computer in the real world!" ...Really?
First off, using computers in school (to me at least) seems more like it's about teaching basic computer concepts and technological literacy. Doesn't matter if it's running Windows, Gentoo (or whatever) or OS X, not "how to use this particular OS so you won't fail in the corporate world". Just like, say, high school science isn't about memorising all the constants or unit conversion rates. (Not that that's *necessarily* how things are always taught, but I think we can all agree it's how it should be.)
Knowing the very basics of a computer doesn't change OS to OS in the terms of 'how to open a file'. Thing is in a school setting like this and in a business you'll have to sometimes go beyond basics at times, sometimes following a printed out sheet/email, and terminology does change. Telling a user who has no Windows experence to 'Ok, now open up the Command Prompt which is under the Accessories folder' doesn't work on OSX or Linux and this can take them a few moments to figure out where the Accessories folder is (in the Start menu under the All Programs, a place some people will just assume you would have known by default). On linux and OSX (by what I'm seeing on an OSX site) its called Terminal which is on OSX located in the Accessories/Utilities folder. While I understand this is a very basic example, when you start using OS specific terms/configuration programs issues can start happening. And it is impressive at times just how many of the basics some people take for granted of each OS and how they forget that others wouldn't know (like how the menubar changes on OSX depending on which program is currently in use, a OSX only concept. Tends to throw Mac newbies for a little time).
As for your science comment of 'high school science isn't about memorising all ... unit conversion rates', it isn't all about memorizing conversion rates but it is about know basic unit rates that are standard in your country (being Metric or Imperial). Not knowing basic unit rates that are standard in the country your in can be hard at times, bad at others. I deal with people from other countries and see these issues and some fun results like 'how tall are you?' 'I'm 180cm.' 'Ummm... whats that in feet/inches?'. So not knowing the basics of a standard can lead to issues.
Second, in all likelihood they'll be forced to learn how to use Windows at some point in their lives anyway, so this gives them a broader background right off the bat. How is being able to use multiple OSes a bad thing?
Learning multiple OSes isn't a bad thing as long as one of them is of course the industry standard which this school is wanting to forbid. As the article quotes Hayes (and you mentioned too) "We have one platform, And that's going to be the Mac." This is neither multiple OSes nor the industry standard, and (to me at least) akin to stating 'We have one unit system of measurement, and thats going to be the Metric system.' It doesn't matter how you feel about the Metric system and its advantages/disadvantages, it isn't the industry standard in the US and would cause issues as basic unit systems that are in use would be missed leading to a need of re-training for these kids.
And third, we all know the average corporate drone is so tech-illiterate that they can barely turn on their machine without help from the guys over in IT (this comes off sounding arrogant, but hey, it's the truth), so it's not like all the other Windows-using schools now have a huge head start in teaching computer literacy.
As I mentioned about basic OS terminology. Even if you don't know tons of Windows, you'll know what the Windows Button is (the Windows icon in the lower left part of the screen), where the All Programs folder is in the Start menu. As like i
Want to know why certain schools are forcing kids to buy an overpriced laptop from one specific supplier?
Not even as simple as forcing the kids to buy for a specific supplier. Notice that the school is the ones more then happy to sell them the computer completely outright and they aren't suggested to go to any store that will sell them? They are getting a kick back. A huge one.
And yet when you watch the videos of behind the scenes in science centers its just Windows running on their PCs... how odd...
First of all, it's really rare to find hardware peripherals today that aren't compatible right out of the box.
And yet I've gotten complaints of how support for peripherals was lacking from friends and family and why in the end they get the Apple equivalent just so they have OSX support. And they've shown me the problems.
in the real world where I live, and manage over 400 Macs and about a hundred XP boxes
What Mac OS? I'm hoping that if your going to compare an old Microsoft OS from 2001 you'll make sure to keep it equal and only compare it to the Mac equivalent which would be OSX 10.0 Cheetah or OSX 10.1 Puma and not the newest ones either being OSX 10.5 Leopard from 2007 or OSX 10.6 Snow Leopard from 2009. You'll find that when you compare an OS from Microsoft from 2001 you have a better, more stable support record when you compare it to the ones Mac made at that time too. You'll also find the hardware support was much better (since those from 2001 were only supported on PowerPC chips and not the 2005+ models Intel chips.) You'll also notice that software compatibility is also much better on WinXP then on either Cheetah or Puma. So unless your comparing equal OS's and not Mac's latest and greatest vs XP then its a moot issue at best.
I wonder how much of a kick-back on their networking and servers the school is getting from Apple for forcing the students onto MacBooks.
Considering, according to the article, the school is going to be selling them to the parents as the middleman and not the normal stores, my bet is a lot.
I completely agree with you here. These are students being taught for their future and will need the skills required for their future jobs. Pushing the Mac platform is a horrible idea and a form of playing russian roulette with their computer skills and future job possibilities.
Why? I'd be because the IT admins at the school didn't want to spend hundreds of man hours per week cleaning up spyware and malware off the kids laptops when they break.
I don't say this because I am a mac fan, I say this because I worked at a corporate environment where people got into all sorts of trouble on their windows laptops.
Usually the excuses was they let their kids play with it. We suspected otherwise.
Sure, OS X isn't 100% secure from malware, but its harder to get into trouble with it.
Your forgetting, these are kids that will download things from the things like BitTorrent. Things like that OSX botnet program and whatever other malware in some of those programs. Hell, list it as a 'Mac haxor program' and I'm willing to bet many of these kids will download it. You can't protect a computer from user stupidity. Not to mention, there are millions of millions of Windows PC's being used by the public and they aren't all around grinding to a halt under all this malware. A basic software check of free antivirus/malware software would handle most basic problems which could be pre-set up since they school would just image the drive for each laptop.
When I was in school, the Radio Shack TRS80 ruled in both the personal and business OS level.
It was such a shame that I only had access to an Atari 800XL with only 20% share of the market.
It is a shame you only had access to an Atari. Remember, it's considered to be one of the biggest causes of the North American video game crash of 1983.
Or how about "No, I'm not going to buy my kid a POS Mac."? I'm sure at least one Windows or Linux adminstrator's child goes to high school there.
Or they did the research and have notice issues with Macs like how those new iMacs had broken screen issues, or how the MBP's had failing graphic cards, or the Snow Leopard bug deleting the home folder... You might be a bit worried. Sure, you could have mailed them back and waited weeks for the repairs, but when your talking school work you need something reliable. Not to mention, not everyone has a good experience with OSX (just check the Apple support forums) and why would anyone want to buy another laptop when their current one works perfectly anyways?
You know who has trouble jumping between OS's? People over 40. Most kids going into high school today have no problem sitting down at a computer and figuring it out. They've grown up interacting with computers of all shapes and sizes their whole lives.
Well since most parents of teens are over 40, I'm going to bet they have only 1 OS at home which would leave junior typically with the total OS experience of... 1 OS. The family computers OS... Nor are OS's as homogenized as you seem to think. Sure, opening and closing a file tends to be the same, but when something goes wrong (and they will, regardless of the OS) thats where the differences really begin to show.
It reeks of a specific someone who's either a) getting a kickback or b) is a big Apple fan and believes everyone should be using Apple because it's clearly the superior platform.
I can guarantee you the school is getting one hell of a kick back for these Macs. As the article mentions 'Parents can pay for the computers upfront or lease them from the district'. Now if the district is the ones trying to be the middle man and wanting the money that just screams kick back.
Whether the school is willing to lease the computers or not is beyond the point. Telling me that my prefer brand of any product is not good enough and I must only buy the brand they want me to buy is unacceptable. This is a school that is supposed to educate children, not dictate to them what is an acceptable choice and what isn't and tell them to not bring/hide what they would prefer to use is completely uncalled for.
That means you will have students that can work with a small segment of the computers which will seriously hurt their chances.
I was going to write a response about how a given person should be able to use any other popular desktop OS after having learned another, but I realized it wasn't true. Every single Mac and Linux user I know can muddle their way through Windows when necessary. But I know a lot of Windows users and administrators who cannot use anything but Windows. (And refuse to try.)
And I'll bet those that use Mac and Linux grew up with a Windows box before moving onto Mac and Linux. If you have training from before, you'll remember it. And I've had a few friends that only had been using Mac for years and forgot/got lost with Windows 7.
I don't think you've been to a high school lately or college lately... Teen usage of Macs is much higher than in the general population. A survey of the Cornell residential network pegged Mac usage at around 21% in 2007. I find it hard to swallow that more than 20% of any Ivy league school's graduates are simply unfit for the modern workplace (to paraphrase your words) because they did their homework on OS X instead of Windows.
And how many of these teens own/run a business? How many of them also made sure to learn to use Windows? I also noticed that Cornell's own librarys only uses Windows and Windows programs. I also know that 100% of the non-press users that go to the WWDC use Macs. Businesses still use Windows. Doesn't matter which niche demographic you quote, when your dealing with the corporate business demographic you need to pay attention to the corporate business demographic regardless of your personal opinion. Also according to your own survey link the official numbers are 21% are using Macs, but 4% of those are using their Macs to run Windows. That leaves you with 17%, not the 20% your quoting. Not to mention quoting numbers from a single university doesn't matter much in the long run. Now if that survey had also included other universities then we might have something.
That said, I'd rather see netbooks, or other commodity hardware, running Linux in the schools.
As a Linux user, I would too. But as Windows is still the standard and businesses are busy figuring out how to do a complete upgrade to Windows 7 which shows no interest in a complete system/computer usage overhaul (due to expense in hardware/software/training), my bets on letting them learn Windows so they'll be prepared when they enter the real world. Though I would suggest if the students wanted to learn other OS's then dual boot either Linux or if they like the challenge/know someone who can do it, dual boot a Hackintosh if they wish to learn OSX. Its all about personal choice in their personal life.
If you disagree, name one skill -- just one -- that kids ought to learn, that can only be performed on a Windows PC. Or name an invaluable educational resource that can only be accessed by Windows users.
Like I said in my first post, kids ought to learn basic Windows skills since most businesses run on Windows. Having to walk people through the most basic Windows commands so they are able to use their Windows-only business software and navigate to the project files for the project is a giant waste of time and money for any business. Think, if your hiring someone would you choose to hire someone who know nothing of the systems your running that runs on 90% of all computers and have to waste time, money and effort to train them to use your systems as well as make sure to field there other questions in the future about Windows basics? Or just hire the person who knows basic Windows and won't need nearly as much training? This is what its like in the real world and why most people who are going for a job from basic secretary to most manager levels will place on their resumes that they have an understanding of Microsoft Windows because they know odds are highly in their favor that these will help them. Mac OSX skills are rare in need or even in use in most businesses so they won't help get that job.
AutoCAD is a industry standard software that is used in many businesses and is Windows only. So any business that relies on AutoCAD is going to be Windows only.
Also, many businesses use .Net and that again is a Windows only option. While you can of course use Mono, it's not a perfect replacement and some .Net commands don't fully work, and in a business enviroment many companies would rather take the fully supported version then one that might cause issues even if your not going to be coding in it, if they use it, they'll more likely be using Windows. Saves headaches and possible glitches leaving it down to again the person must understand how to use basic Windows concepts and commands.
Another system you might not be aware of is that one of the largest Point Of Sales systems is Micros. What you might not see is that Micros is a Microsoft only product, meaning of course that behind the scenes, the companies that utilize these systems run on Windows since they are all networked. So any part of the job that will need you touching a work computer that isn't a part of the Micros system will be a Windows system and will need general Windows understanding.
While I understand that it doesn't seem fair or right that so many use Windows (I'm a Linux user myself), you can't just say no to learn the industry standard that will be found in most businesses. Even if you don't see the Windows icons, you'd be surprised what truly does run on Windows only.
The reason why open source doesn't make much money is because it's essentially a volunteer effort. The vast majority of people that do FOSS work do it unpaid, and on their own time.
Total BS. 75% of Linux code now written by paid developers. Just because the software is free to use, doesn't mean its made for free. Its like free public areas and events. Sure, if it's your town then your taxes paid for it (if you pay taxes). But people that don't pay taxes are also able to join and use them for free like people on welfare, visitors out of town/country, children... they don't pay anything and if you've ever gone to an event out of town, odds are it was paid with the taxes collected by that town which isn't your taxes and that means it was free too.
Every freedom that you now enjoy would likely be included in the document.
And that would be over shadowed by every abusive DMCA-style privilege that every corporate sponsor of the document would hold over you and property.
Well since open wifi is just a public-like place where obviously people will do illegal things since they can't always be monitored, lets move to banning open, public spaces. We've all seen how things like drug deals are done there. Along with things like drinking in public, illegal panhandlers, illegally sleeping on public benches, illegally urinating in public, vandalism, dogs being illegally let off leash ignoring leash laws. By gosh, these open public anythings are just breeding grounds of illegal activity.
No, it will not forever be the term. "Tweet" is a very Twitter-specific term, and a stupid one at that.
So is a Kleenex, a Band-Aid, a coke and yet those words are still commonly used without meaning the brand they represent.
And why mac books? I don't like windows anymore than the rest of the /. crowd but if you want them to be prepared for the high tech future why not get Dells with Windows 7 at half the cost.
I completely agree with you here. These are students being taught for their future and will need the skills required for their future jobs. Pushing the Mac platform is a horrible idea and a form of playing russian roulette with their computer skills and future job possibilities.
Regardless of anyones personal opinion of computer OS's, Windows still rules in both the personal and business OS level. And I don't care what anyone else has to say on the level of 'but, but, Macs are slowly gaining.' Thats great for Mac. But here's a good dose of reality. OSX was released in March of 2001. Its now June of 2010, just over 9 years later. Mac has been able to improve its market share from 1-2% to 6-9%. That means less then one in 10 computers is a Mac even after 9 years and one hell of an aggressive marketing campaign (we've all seen those 'Pc vs Mac' commercials). This idea is set to be set in motion for 2011, and considering it takes on average a person to graduate from HS a total of 4 years your looking at someone graduating with Mac-only education in 2015 being 5 years from now. I don't see Mac being over 50% market share by then to even consider itself the OS leader let alone getting over 33% if the market can even fragment enough to split evenly between Windows/Mac/Linux (without going into others like BSD, etc...). That means you will have students that can work with a small segment of the computers which will seriously hurt their chances. Any employer that has computers needed in the job will just look at the young adult and see that not only will they need training on the basics of the job, but how to use the basics of their workplace OS that is the business leader. And training isn't free, it's expensive and they will be more likely over looked for someone with Windows experience which means less training and money saved.
The school is also mentioning security as an issue, but thats getting more and more of a questionable problem. Fact of the matter is, Windows 7 is pretty secure (but not the most secure). And computer security is no longer as simple as how fast a virus/worm can spread. This keeps being shown on the Pwn2Own contests, as security is now based on what else is running on the computer. The biggest security risk seems to be running Flash on the system. If I remember right, Flash is not installed by default on Windows 7 and since many businesses won't let you install programs from the internet by default, that makes a big security hole gone. Not so on OSX where Flash is installed as factory default, a huge security hole. Another thing to consider as mentioned by Pwn2Own winner Charlie Miller: Windows 7 or Snow Leopard, which of these two commercial OS will be harder to hack and why? Windows 7 is slightly more difficult because it has full ASLR (address space layout randomization) and a smaller attack surface (for example, no Java or Flash by default). So in the end, security to no longer one sided, each OS is now more secure in same ways then its competitions and less secure in other ways.
Also to consider is things like hardware compatibility. Most hardware is written to support Windows, with some to little to no support for Mac. Sure, Macs play great with other Mac hardware but if Apple doesn't make it things get iffy (again, depends on what it is your talking about exactly). These students go home and will want to use their laptops with their devices at home. Have a blackberry phone? Good luck doing anything but the basics of syncing (and no, showing me some complex set of instructions doesn't count. We are talking students of different interests and backgrounds, not the slashdot crowd). Printers and scanners? Again, depends on which ones and how old they are
My heart goes out to the poor journalists heading out to the great google in order to get their big scoop on goatse.
Well, according the the story about the leak yesterday, the official description is 'the group is steeped in off-the-wall, 4chan-style internet culture—its name is a reference to a famous gross-out Web picture' I don't see many people looking it on Google... unless your only reading /.'s summery.... I personally preferred the one description of 'a picture of a man stretching his anus to 'olympic' proportions'. Just calling it 'olympic' proportions is a bad mental image enough.
touchscreen != tablet. Tablet is a form factor
Well that would explain why I didn't mention the touch screen computers from the 80's that are used in businesses for sales...
Let's be honest here: either you're a n00b or a liar. You told us that tablets were first OSS.
And where did I say that tablets were OSS? This is the first time I've even mentioned OSS. Believe it or not, but the computer world isn't limited to Windows, Mac and the rest are OSS.
When you got called out on it you acted like you knew all along and claimed that the OS really wasn't a tablet OS. Now you've been called out on that too. You're wrong. Any way you try to slice it at this point you're wrong and attempting to back peddle is only going to make you look like more of an ass who doesn't know when to give in when you've been proven wrong.
From your own Wikipedia link, it states that WinXP tablet edition was made it 2004 (opposed to the normal WinXP made in 2001, 3 years before), and was an 'edition' (meaning MODIFIED version) and when its modified it means that this was a later thought of idea and not the starting one. You just proved me right, not wrong.
It's ok that OSS isn't the Superman of computing. It doesn't have to be to have something worth paying attention to. Most of us who are pragmatic about computing gave up the fanboi fantasies a long time ago. Join us in the real world and either take some time to listen and learn or do us a favor and stop lying to make your little cult look good. Ok?
Again, you bring up OSS like its some kind of hidden trump card. I never mentioned OSS at any point, you brought it up to try to use it against me. And 'join the real world' and stop lying that OSS isn't good for computering? Try to remember, most servers run OSS, routers, many desktops (even the Apple's own OSX is made from OSS...) How much more 'real world' is needed?
While your bullshit post got modded up, the fact of the matter is that to anyone who really matters here you look like a ninth grade asshat who thinks he's the king of the junior high computer lab. Most of us have seen people like you before and we know well enough to avoid you when possible.
Don't worry, everyone here that can really think knows that when you make up 'facts' (like claiming I've been trying to push OSS when never mentioning it or even hinting at it...) to try to disprove others, it shows you to be a stupid troll. Thanks for trying though.