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Canonical Developing Ubuntu OS For Tablets

snydeq writes "Canonical is preparing a version of the Ubuntu OS for tablet computers as the company looks to extend its presence in the mobile space, InfoWorld reports. The OS will be a lightweight version of Linux with a simplified, touch-friendly user interface, and tablets with the Ubuntu OS could become available late in winter 2011. The focus will be on developing an OS with a simplified user interface that provides quick access to the most-used applications. Development efforts will also focus on adding on-screen keyboard features and compatibility for multitouch drivers."

228 comments

  1. HELL YES! by somersault · · Score: 2, Insightful

    AFAIK you can install your own version of Ubuntu onto the Joojoo, which is way cheaper than an iPad but has decent enough hardware specs.. this could be really awesome!

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    which is totally what she said
    1. Re:HELL YES! by somersault · · Score: 1

      on the other hand, TFA says this won't be out until the end of 2011 :/ Best just to wait and see what other decent tablets come out in the meantime.. preferably ones with expandable storage, and an open environment..

      --
      which is totally what she said
    2. Re:HELL YES! by sootman · · Score: 2, Informative

      The JooJoo and the iPad are both $499. How is the JooJoo "way cheaper"?

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    3. Re:HELL YES! by History's+Coming+To · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I entirely get your point. However, if you stop paying Apple whatever they ask in the future, then the iPad loses functionality. This doesn't happen with an OS like Ubuntu or any other free distro.

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    4. Re:HELL YES! by davester666 · · Score: 1

      It includes a USB port that you need to pay Apple an extra $30 for...

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    5. Re:HELL YES! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I entirely get your point. However, if you stop paying Apple whatever they ask in the future, then the iPad loses functionality.

      Ummmm, what?

    6. Re:HELL YES! by sootman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wow. Nothing personal but I can't imagine how you've been nodded up... TWICE. What do you need to pay in the future? What has Apple announced they would do along these lines? You buy an iPad today and it will function as it does forever without ever talking to Apple again. Please specify exactly what functionality will get turned off if you don't send Apple money above and beyond the initial purchase price.

      Considering that the JooJoo's manufacturer is likely to go out of business before the warranty expires on the first tablet they shipped, I'd go so far as to say that the iPad is a much safer investment.

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    7. Re:HELL YES! by dargaud · · Score: 1

      It includes a USB port that you need to pay Apple an extra $30 for...

      Some things so surprising that I had to go verify it for myself. This needs to be repeated loudly: the iPad has no USB or SD card slot ! Amazing how anybody can use it for anything...

      I'll eagerly wait for this Ubuntu tablet version on whatever tablet it can run. I've already tested the Netbook version and found it quite nice (unfortunately the hardware was flaky).

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    8. Re:HELL YES! by somersault · · Score: 1

      Here in the UK the JooJoo is £320 while the cheapest iPad is over £400. I looked at the JooJoo specs last night though and it doesn't appear to have expandable storage either.. and with only 4GB of storage it's rather limiting. Guess I'm back to waiting to see what other cool stuff comes out in the next few months. I'm still happy with my netbook too, but there are a couple of things that a tablet would be nice for if the price was right.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    9. Re:HELL YES! by expatriot · · Score: 1

      http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MC531ZM/A?fnode=MTc0MjU4NjE&mco=MTcyMTgxODY

      The kit includes two connectors, each with a different interface:

      The Camera Connector features a USB interface. Just plug it into the dock connector port on your iPad, then attach your digital camera or iPhone using a USB cable (not included). iPhone 3G is not supported.

      Use the SD Card Reader to import photos directly from your camera's SD card. Connect it to your iPad, then insert your digital camera's SD card into the slot.

    10. Re:HELL YES! by TheCowSaysMooNotBoo · · Score: 1

      Your soul man, your soul!

    11. Re:HELL YES! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The JooJoo and the iPad are both $499. How is the JooJoo "way cheaper"?

      With JooJoo they let you keep your soul.

    12. Re:HELL YES! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With the JooJoo, you get to keep your soul.

    13. Re:HELL YES! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With the JooJoo, you get to keep your soul.

    14. Re:HELL YES! by davester666 · · Score: 1

      "Some things so surprising that I had to go verify it for myself. This needs to be repeated loudly: the iPad has no USB or SD card slot ! Amazing how anybody can use it for anything..."

      Yes, any computing device is completely useless without a USB port or SD slot.

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    15. Re:HELL YES! by AusIV · · Score: 1

      I remember reading a while back that someone had a problem where an application they had installed on their iPod touch automatically upgraded to a version that required the next version of the operating system. The next version of the operating system cost $9.99, so the person writing the article had to pay apple to keep using software he had already paid for.

      I'm not an iPod/iPhone/iPad user, and I don't remember the details of the article, but I definitely remember someone complaining that he had to pay apple to upgrade his OS just to keep using the apps he already paid for.

    16. Re:HELL YES! by norminator · · Score: 1

      Hence the assertion above that you have to pay Apple an extra $30 to get a USB port.

    17. Re:HELL YES! by vuffi_raa · · Score: 1

      as of what has been revealed your best option is either the eeepad or the innoversal tablet(which has the pixel qi screen). Both are wintels so they should be fairly compatible, I just want to know if there is one that I can set up as a dual boot win7 and ubuntu w/o external H\W since so many of them depend on a software keyboard and a lot of these devices are coming out sans buttons save the power. Personally though I am looking forward to the exoPC so far as wintabletslatenetbook devices (is that a word?) go.

    18. Re:HELL YES! by sootman · · Score: 1

      Once again: Score: -1, factually incorrect. (Or at least, "not aware of all the facts.") He did NOT have to "pay apple to keep using software he had already paid for". He could have just continued using the original version of the app. This is like complaining that you "have" to upgrade to OS X 10.5 because you "have" to upgrade from Adobe CS5 to CS5. Even if Adobe would give out free upgrades from CS4 to CS5, that doesn't mean Apple would be required to do the same. And it has been known since DAY 1 that iPod touch OS upgrades would be paid-for, unlike iPhone OS upgrades. (This just recently changed and iPod touch upgrades are now free.)

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  2. Lightweight 'version'? by X0563511 · · Score: 0, Troll

    No, it won't be a "lightweight version of Linux".

    It will be a lightweight version of Ubuntu.

    Unless they are going to roll their own kernel fork, that is.

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    1. Re:Lightweight 'version'? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      Unless they are going to roll their own kernel fork, that is.

      All the major distros have their own 'kernel fork' -- they each add their own set of special patches.

      My guess is that they'll probably compile-in some of the kernel modules to save memory and ship without modules for stuff you wouldn't find in a tablet, like SCSI drivers.

    2. Re:Lightweight 'version'? by kwabbles · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Including/excluding modules doesn't constitute a kernel fork or a "different version". That's like saying you rolled your own version of Windows by removing the network driver.

      I'm not sure why he got modded troll - he's absolutely correct. TFA summary makes it sound like Linux is an operating system.

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    3. Re:Lightweight 'version'? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      TFA summary makes it sound like Linux is an operating system.

      It is. Stop trying to change the meaning of words.

    4. Re:Lightweight 'version'? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      What part of 'they each add their own set of special patches' did you not understand? That's quite a bit more than including/excluding modules.

  3. So... by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What about getting it ON a Tablet? Anybody agreed to or even thinking about putting Ubuntu on their tablet?

    I don't see a lot of people wanting to buy a tablet only to replace the existing OS.

    Though it'd be nice to get some kind of slate for a cheap price - this should cut down the price by $100, if Ubuntu can get someone on board with it.

    1. Re:So... by DeadDecoy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, the consequence of putting Ubuntu, or any linux distro on a tablet, is that it would provide a less restrictive platform than the iPad. If you want your own drivers, software, etc, then you can just apt-get them. I imagine this will also be nicer for developers as they wouldn't have to wrestle with vague rules on getting their work submitted to the apple store. What Canonical should do, after this, is setup an opt-in app store, such that users can support developers if they want to.

    2. Re:So... by Master+Moose · · Score: 1

      I use a Gigabyte Touchnote T1028 http://gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3190#kf and the first thing I did when I got it is replace the OS with Ububtu (netbook remix).Works great

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    3. Re:So... by Master+Moose · · Score: 1

      OKay - so its a Tablet PC. But still used as a tablet. (I do all my ebook reading on it)

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    4. Re:So... by Nadaka · · Score: 0

      Ubuntu is already running on tablets...

      www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook

      While the multi-boot feature is "pending", I would point out that ubuntu has been compiled and installed on some touchbooks by their owners already.

    5. Re:So... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1, Troll

      The problem with Linux on consumer devices like that is this: Unless you make it like an embedded device, no updates and no plugging in anything non approved, then it will only work until the next update, because Linux from the kernel up is like the shifting sands and things that work today may not work tomorrow. I was talking on here just the other week with someone that bought one of the Dell Ubuntu netbooks. He gets it home, he updates it...can you guess what happened? No Sound and no wireless after the update!

      Linux has great security, Linux has really nice looking UIs, what it needs now is some serious stability. It needs a stable driver ABI, it needs a way that retailers like me can actually sell your product without having to disable security just to make it usable. I ran Ubuntu on 4 machines, 3 desktops and a laptop, hoping against hope that they would get it right on the next release, but by 9.04 I simply gave up. Not once, not ever, did I get that damned OS to update without something breaking. wireless, sound, video, my printer, it got to the point I looked at the update notification as a "break your OS NOW!" button.

      Canonical can put out 31 flavors of Ubuntu, hell even have a different one for every day of the week, but as long as you need a CS degree to fix the damned thing every time an update is released most OEMs are gonna avoid it like the plague. Just look at how quick netbooks, which were supposed to usher in Linux on the desktop, were switched over to XP. Hell even Canonical admitted Ubuntu netbooks had higher returns which of course hurts any retailers bottom line.

      As a retailer I'd like to sell your OS, I really would. But until I can take a bog standard AMD or Intel PC, install Ubuntu, run the updates, and have 100% of the hardware that worked before work after I run the update, then I just can't allow it in my shop. The time wasted trawling forums looking for "fixes" will cost me more than simply putting Windows Home on it. Sorry.

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    6. Re:So... by dissy · · Score: 2, Informative

      I don't see a lot of people wanting to buy a tablet only to replace the existing OS.

      I might not qualify as 'a lot of people', but I will be damned if I will leave Windows 98 on my Fujitsu stylistic 2300!

      20 years ago was a long time, but I am pretty sure my intent was replacing its OS right fast after buying it.

      Ubuntu runs on it just fine today. Back then I used slackware and then debian, as ubuntu didn't exist yet.

    7. Re:So... by westlake · · Score: 1

      Though it'd be nice to get some kind of slate for a cheap price - this should cut down the price by $100, if Ubuntu can get someone on board with it.

      Simply an observation:

      WalMart - the world's largest and most aggressive deep discount retailer - has never been able to consistently undercut OEM Windows by $100 - by $75 - by $50 - on systems with competitive, marketable, specs.

    8. Re:So... by debatem1 · · Score: 1

      I think the OPs estimate is inaccurate, but I would point out that WalMart does undercut by hundreds of dollars on computers- they just do it by selling windows machines instead of macs.

    9. Re:So... by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      ...or any linux distro on a tablet, is that it would provide a less restrictive platform than the iPad.

      That's exactly what I'm after. The iPad is just an appliance for consumption of whatever media Apple sees fit to let me see. Since I like having access to a zsh shell on a machine capable of multitasking, Apple's offering doesn't have much value to me.

      That is where IMO Apple has dropped the ball. Whatever else we might think about litigative business models or turtle-necks, Apple's OS X is (with the exception of the GUI) pretty much a bog-standard *nix box, with all the usual BSD tools under the bonnet. For that reason their MacBook is a very useful platform for my purposes. If they had thought so far as to put OS X on their tablets, I would give the iPad some serious consideration.

      But a tablet with Linux on it (though I prefer Arch to Ubuntu) would be just fine.

    10. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I, too, am a curmudgeon. Got a problem with that?

    11. Re:So... by westlake · · Score: 1

      I would point out that WalMart does undercut by hundreds of dollars on computers- they just do it by selling windows machines instead of macs.

      For the better part of a decade, WalMart tried to make a go of OEM Linux.

      With Slashdot's cheerleaders on the sidelines. The netbook was the chain's last big push. Nothing ever came of it.

    12. Re:So... by debatem1 · · Score: 1

      That's great. I'm confused about what it has to do with what I said, though.

    13. Re:So... by laughingcoyote · · Score: 1

      Right now, I'm using it on a dead standard HP Probook. Horrible configuration. For the wireless, you have to click on the "wireless" icon, click on the appropriate network, and put in the network password. I have a lot of technical skill-if it took me twenty seconds to figure that out, I bet your average user could have a painful minute and a half process on their hands! Dual monitors were also a terrible pain, like I've heard sometimes. I plugged the second monitor in, the menu for the two monitor setup popped up, and I dragged it to the appropriate side. I don't know how your average non-technical user would even have a prayer of figuring out such an arcane, unintuitive interface. They would just have to resort to a forum, if they could even find help there.

      I also use it on a desktop machine at home, but that was a machine I built myself, so I doubt that would meet your qualification of "standard". Worked just as easily there as well, though.

      Both of them have, at this point, been updated when needed with regular version/package management updates, undergone 2 (laptop) or 3 (desktop) OS version upgrades, and nothing's been broken whatsoever. You click the button, you move on with things. Hell of a lot easier than upgrading your WIndows version, you ever tried that? It keeps me working, but it's sure not as simple as "Click upgrade button, allow to run, reboot". Even if I did at some point have to check forums for a fix on something, it'd be easier than a full clean format and reinstall (and half the time on a new Windows install, drivers are missing too).

      But if you really want a slog, try cleaning crapware off a Windows machine sometimes. A shining example of "just works"-it's capable of getting all the malware you want, and don't, right out of the box. Getting rid of it, on the other hand...Well, it keeps me making money, right?

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    14. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is because the manufacturers are complete morons. They don't know what chipsets to use in the systems they sell. Dell is a good example of this, but neither System76, LinuxCertified, or any other company besides ThinkPenguin realizes you need chipests with free drivers. Relying on chipsets that require propritary drivers and firmware are the problem. Now you might come across an Ubuntu update with a bug- and the audio stops working. That doesn't mean you can't fix it easily. It just requires selecting an older kernel at boot time. There isn't any hunting down drivers crap. It is calling designing a PC for GNU/Linux. ThinkPenguin advertises this and they get it. Most people in the GNU/Linux community don't even get this and moan about the lack of GNU/Linux support. No- the problem isn't the lack of support it is you are buying faulty products from companies who don't know what they are doing. If you buy an products from companies that know what they are doing you do get hardware that'll work and continue working with updates and support to boot. Even toll-free support just like Dell, HP, and Lenovo provide if you know where to look. IE ThinkPenguin.com in the USA. I think open-pc.com also has a desktop PC system in Europe that is designed with the similar underlying philosophy. Of course designing desktops is pretty easy compared to designing notebooks since they are pretty much straight out Intel boards you can buy and stick in any case... but open-pc provides the support to go along with it. I'm not sure if they are planning to do laptops or not.

    15. Re:So... by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      They already have an app store, that's effectively what the package manager has been all along... I believe they are working on extending it to allow paid app purchases, while still having the benefits of centralised updating etc.

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    16. Re:So... by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      The iPad does run OSX, albeit a somewhat stripped down version of it...
      If you jailbreak it, you can restore the unix userland tools which apple removed.

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    17. Re:So... by Bert64 · · Score: 2, Informative

      To counter your example, i have the following machines running ubuntu:

      a packard bell desktop (c2d 2.2ghz, 2gb ram, ati x1600 video etc)
      a self build desktop (q6600, 8gb ram, 64bit, nvidia 8600 video)
      a dell latitude c610 laptop (with a cisco pcmcia wireless card since theres no built in wireless)
      a dell latitude d600 laptop (the onboard broadcom wireless didnt work in 8.04 but does out of the box with later versions)
      an asus eee 901 (running the netbook version)

      all of these machines get updated to the latest version when it comes out, and none of them have had any issues

      what exactly were the 4 machines you used and what type of hardware did they have which didnt work?

      as for returns, this is due to a number of factors... the linux distros installed on netbooks were typically second rate distros that were difficult to update, difficult to add additional apps to etc...
      they were also quite often mis-sold, people buying them often didnt realise they were getting linux and they were poorly promoted - even if linux was mentioned that was pretty much it, none of the advantages of linux were presented in the marketing literature (and in many cases those advantages were neutered by the crippled distros)...

      If you are selling hardware, only offer ubuntu on machines which you know it is compatible with, and mark any addon peripherals like printers as ubuntu compatible or not... provide the customers with literature which explains the benefits of linux, especially the package management systems etc...

      Incidentally, when it comes to updates breaking things - updating an xp box to windows 7 resulted in my hp printer/scanner no longer working as a scanner (it could still print)... i had to download new drivers from hp, but being an older model those drivers had never been updated to support anything newer than 32bit xp.

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    18. Re:So... by slinches · · Score: 1

      The problem with Linux on consumer devices like that is this: Unless you make it like an embedded device, no updates and no plugging in anything non approved, then it will only work until the next update, because Linux from the kernel up is like the shifting sands and things that work today may not work tomorrow. I was talking on here just the other week with someone that bought one of the Dell Ubuntu netbooks. He gets it home, he updates it...can you guess what happened? No Sound and no wireless after the update!

      Linux has great security, Linux has really nice looking UIs, what it needs now is some serious stability. It needs a stable driver ABI, it needs a way that retailers like me can actually sell your product without having to disable security just to make it usable. I ran Ubuntu on 4 machines, 3 desktops and a laptop, hoping against hope that they would get it right on the next release, but by 9.04 I simply gave up. Not once, not ever, did I get that damned OS to update without something breaking. wireless, sound, video, my printer, it got to the point I looked at the update notification as a "break your OS NOW!" button.

      That's really strange. I've had a completely different experience. I'm posting from a laptop running Ubuntu 10.04 which I have had no trouble with through 3 or 4 upgrades and an uncountable number of updates (I originally installed either 8.04 or 8.10, can't remember which anymore). I've done the same with several other computers and only run into one issue (Pulseaudio).

      Just look at how quick netbooks, which were supposed to usher in Linux on the desktop, were switched over to XP.

      I'm not really sure why this happened. Linux netbooks were selling as fast as they could be built early on. I tried to buy one of the models that was around $199, but couldn't find them in stock anywhere. Although, I think Microsoft changing their pricing and hardware requirements for XP around that time frame definitely had an impact.

      Hell even Canonical admitted Ubuntu netbooks had higher returns [laptopmag.com] which of course hurts any retailers bottom line.

      The higher return rate is probably more of an issue of people not realizing that what they bought wasn't Windows. Microsoft has had such a hold on the market that to many people, if it doesn't have a start menu and a nice blue theme, it must not be a computer. The quality of the OS (not to say the custom images that the vendors came up with were all that great) wasn't really the issue.

      As a retailer I'd like to sell your OS, I really would. But until I can take a bog standard AMD or Intel PC, install Ubuntu, run the updates, and have 100% of the hardware that worked before work after I run the update, then I just can't allow it in my shop. The time wasted trawling forums looking for "fixes" will cost me more than simply putting Windows Home on it. Sorry.

      There's no OS out there that does what you're asking for. Although, I think some of the Linux distributions are far closer than XP. Linux hardware support is only lacking because some hardware manufacturers won't provide Linux drivers or publish the information needed so that an independent party can write one. Besides, Windows doesn't support much hardware out of the box either. I haven't had a fresh windows install yet where I didn't have to track down a driver or ten to get all of my hardware working. The difference is that the Linux hardware support issue is easily avoided by simply staying away from a handful of hardware vendors.

      Again, I have no idea how you've been able to get updates to cause issues regularly on Ubuntu. Version upgrades sometimes have issues, but they're no more trouble than upgrading Windows service packs.

      All I ask is that you evaluate Linux distributions with the same criteria as you use with Windows.

      I could understand the argument that the market for x86 computers running Linux isn't big enough to warrant the effort of offering them, but I don't buy the claim that Windows is easier to deploy and support.

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    19. Re:So... by Rogerborg · · Score: 1

      To counter your counter example, I have an Asus EEE 1001, and had to compile the forking WiFi drivers from source, under both Ubuntu 9.04 and 10.04. No big deal for me and thee, but for 99% of Windows/MacOS users, that's a FAIL.

      If you are selling hardware, only offer ubuntu on machines which you know it is compatible with

      I'd recommend that you never start a business, as you seem to have missed the point that it's future updates that break it, and that returns kill retail. FAIL.

      provide the customers with literature which explains the benefits of linux,

      If you need to read about how it works, then it's... FAIL.

      Incidentally, when it comes to updates breaking things

      There's no "incidentally" about that. It's the GP's entire point. Utter and total FAIL.

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    20. Re:So... by hairyfeet · · Score: 0

      Notice how I got labeled a troll for daring to point out a serious problem? It isn't like I'm some noob here, I have been building PCs and selling computers retail since Win3.x, so I think I know my way around hardware. But you and many of the other missed the point completely. You talked about upgrading from winXP to 7, but how many years did you get out of XP? I'll answer that: 13, because updates won't end until 2014 and the OS was released in 2001. Can you show me a SINGLE distro that was released in 2001 that is still getting security updates, without having to toss everything and move up? I seriously doubt it.

      And THIS is why as a retailer after trying I simply can't sell your OS. The "Long term support" is...what? 3 years? and there is NO guarantee that a security update won't bork the hardware, which I frankly just haven't ever seen with Windows. A 6 month release schedule is simply madness, there is NO way to do decent QA on that kind of breakneck pace, there just isn't!

      And not that it matters, but since you and another asked about specifics I'll give them- 2 P4s (a 2.2 and a 3.6), 1 AMD Athlon 2.2, and a P4M on the CPUs, sound was 2 different Realteks, an SiS and a Sigma on the laptop, Broadcom wireless, GPU was 2 Nvidias, an ATI and an Intel, and finally Ethernet was 2 Realtek, an SiS, and an Intel.

      But honestly? That doesn't matter. what matters is this isn't some uber rare hardware folks, and what is 1000 times worse, was what I was supposed to "do" to fix it: Trawl forums, which I would have to know the exact make and model of hardware broken, find a "fix" which consisted of a ton of CLI gibberish, tweak said gibberish because it almost never worked out of the box, and then pray to Deity that it actually worked. And then of course in six months do it all over again.

      Now be HONEST here Bert64. Be honest and truthful to yourself and me and you fellow /.ers: Do you HONESTLY believe that Joe average could have pulled ALL of that off? Really? Of course not, don't be silly. And THAT is the problem: Linux is an OS made BY CS grads FOR CS grads, with an extra dose of elitism and "CLI has magic powers!" thrown in for good measure. CS Grads may actually LIKE CLI, but ordinary users? wouldn't touch that crap with a 10 foot pole. It is weird and scary and like DOS and they don't want it.

      And I hate to break the news to the guys here, but in retail we don't actually GET CS grads walking into B&Ms buying computers, they all shop online. And because your OS is frankly a royal PITA thanks to the breakneck release schedule and reliance on an interface everyone else abandoned ages ago (Most OSX and Windows users don't even know their OS HAS a CLI, much less where to find it) it is practically impossible to sell at retail. And no, you can't just "buy Linux compatible" hardware, because as I said stuff that works in Foo, may not work in Foo+1. So to sell Linux I would end up having to give away lifetime support (because ordinary folks don't like buying extended service contracts, see the hatred of Best Buy for an example) and would end up going broke trying to support your "free OS" when I could just buy Windows Home, add an AV, pass the cost along to the consumer, and both they and I are happy.

      And finally, before some FLOSSie goes "But..but...but..Windows has Powershell!" that is for SERVERS and NOT desktops. It has been out for how many years now? I have NEVER seen it come default on a consumer Dell or HP, have you? Windows users do NOT have a CLI, nor do they want one. OSX users do NOT have a CLI, nor do they want one. With Windows I can count the number of times I had to go CLI on one hand with fingers left over. with Linux at the slightest problem the ONLY advice you'll often get is "open up bash and type" a huge mess that may/more likely not work. If I could install Ubuntu 10 and have security updates work for 5 years without breaking a single piece of hardware? There would be Ubuntu machines on my shelves right now. But that simply isn't the cas

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    21. Re:So... by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      Most joe average users never update their OS, and never install it... They purchase a machine with something preinstalled, and use it until it feels too slow for them at which point they replace it...

      Most users would be unable to reinstall windows, especially if they need to find and install third party drivers for it, if windows lacks a driver for a given piece of hardware it doesn't even tell you what brand or model the card is, you get the raw pci device ids if you look hard but otherwise you just get "ethernet controller" or "vga display device" or similar.

      The only place where a user is pretty much guaranteed to be able to reinstall without missing drivers or other problems is on a mac, where the hardware and software are designed together. If you replicate the same situation with linux or windows then you'd also be able to get a clean install with no driver issues.

      There is also a very important reason why searching for help in forums gives you command line help... Forums and the web as a whole are primarily text based mediums just like a cli. Pretty much anything a typical user would want to do with ubuntu can be performed through the graphical interface but providing descriptions and screenshots to illustrate the point would be just as problematic as it is on other platforms (the users screen may look different to resolution issues, language, theme preferences, icons having been moved etc)... Take the following example - user wants to install a package called "blah" - a graphical explanation would show them where to find the synaptic package manager, how to search for blah or what category its located in, how to select it for installation, how to confirm it to process the install etc... A textual response would be "sudo apt-get install blah" which the user can simply paste into a terminal, enter his pass and be done.

      Why go through hoops to explain a graphical process via a textual medium, when you can simply provide a block of text that the user can paste to get the job done? People are starting to provide help for OSX in this way too (old habits are hard to break, for years MacOS simply didn't have a cli at all), they don't do it for windows because the default cli is pretty weak compared to unix (and as you pointed out, powershell isnt always installed).

      I have never had security updates in ubuntu break hardware, on the other hand i have had xp sp2 break various things including drivers. I can imagine that ubuntu security updates would break hardware that you had installed drivers for by hand (possibly requiring you to recompile the drivers for the updated kernel) but not for anything that came with the default install. And i would expect anyone providing machines with ubuntu preinstalled to select hardware which it is known to be compatible with out of the box.

      My point is that the problems you talk about happen for windows too (and would for osx if it was installed on non tightly controlled hardware) and yet you accept the workarounds necessary for windows (even if those workarounds are harder than the equivalents for linux)... If you treat the two on a level playing field ubuntu fares pretty well.

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    22. Re:So... by Bert64 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'd recommend that you never start a business, as you seem to have missed the point that it's future updates that break it, and that returns kill retail. FAIL

      All the machines i run ubuntu on, had all of their hardware supported out of the box and none of them have failed due to updating. The reason your machine on which you compiled wifi drivers from source failed after updating is because the system package manager is unaware of your self compiled drivers and is therefore unable to update them to match the other updated components. I would not sell a machine with ubuntu on it that required manual hacking like that to get something working, there are plenty of systems supported by an out of the box install and which will apply updates just fine.

      If you need to read about how it works, then it's... FAIL.

      No that's advertising, people are not psychic - you need to tell them why they should use your product and not something else which is better marketed... microsoft spends millions on advertising. Inferior products often outsell cheaper and superior alternatives because the inferior ones have huge marketing budgets behind them.

      There's no "incidentally" about that. It's the GP's entire point. Utter and total FAIL.

      Except that i was talking about windows updates breaking things as well - read the rest of the text (infact microsoft are quite famous for updates breaking things)... So why is it acceptable for windows updates to break things, but for ubuntu updates to break things is considered unacceptable?

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    23. Re:So... by WillDraven · · Score: 1

      What Canonical should do, after this, is setup an opt-in app store, such that users can support developers if they want to.

      Like this?

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    24. Re:So... by hey! · · Score: 1

      After market installation is what has kept Linux going for over a decade, but tablets are a different matter altogether.

      The attraction of tablets lies largely in what they aren't. They aren't PCs. We have enough PCs in our lives, so the marginal value of another PC is nil. The marginal value of an ebook reader or media player is greater for most of us.

      PCs are a pain in the ass, even if you are good with them. They have to be administered. What users are looking for in a tablet is an appliance. Sometimes you have to call the repair man to fix the dishwasher, but you don't have to *administer* the damned thing.

      That's one of the reasons that Microsoft's tablet efforts failed is that the fundamental pitch was "hey this is *really* a PC. You know all about PCs already." Yep, we do. And most of us don't like 'em.

      That approach kind of worked for a while in the PDA market -- at least well enough that they were able to help Palm commit suicide as hardware margins fell. Palm's offerings became much more computer-like, which opened the door for Microsoft to say, "Look, if you are buying a handheld PC, why not stick with the devil you know?" That worked great until Apple gave users something that was much more like the original Palms than Palm's own offerings: an appliance that did some nifty tricks but was definitely not another damned PC.

      Of course it helped that Microsoft's implementation of tablet features really sucked. I'm typing this on a Lenovo S-10T -- a convertible tablet. In theory it should be a killer value proposition, and I really do like the hardware, but using the tablet features is like sticking your fingers into a meat grinder. I'd have waited a few months and got an iPad for about the same price, and it would have been a hell of a lot more fun, but really this machine is an alternative to a Kindle DS for me. The Kindle ebook reader does a terrible job at rendering math books. I know its not the book format itself because the same books render fine on an iPod touch. Since I needed those books right away, I followed the usual rule of buying technology: wait until you need it, but when you do need don't wait until something better comes along.

      And that sooner or later there's going to be a Linux tablet distro worth trying. VLC on this thing rocks. It especially kills for watching speeches and lectures. I play them back at 2.1x until the person speaking says something that's hard to follow, so I can get through 50 minutes (which inevitably consists of surprising amounts of "um","er", digression and shuffling presentation materials around) in under 30 minutes. If I were a student I'd do all my lectures by video on this thing and save a ton of time.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    25. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have Ubuntu on my HP Tablet. It all just worked on the driver end. I love it for sketching in Gimp, but the biggest problem is lack of the handwriting recognition software I have on my windows partition. So Ubuntu on a tablet is already doable. The real question is are they going to start porting some of the necessary tools to make it useful.

    26. Re:So... by yurtinus · · Score: 1

      If it's available and if it works well, that won't be an issue. You see regular Ubuntu pre-loaded on machines from several manufacturers these days. An off the shelf tablet edition would definitely draw some attention and I wouldn't be surprised to see a major manufacturer distributing a device running it (Dell, Lenovo, etc)

      --
      +1 Disagree
    27. Re:So... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Notice the downmodding? Here, let me kiss the FLOSSie ass before we continue, so you'll actually be able to see this. "Gee, isn't Linux swell? It sure is, and RMS shits rainbows! The ONLY reason Linux isn't ruling the desktops is an evil conspiracy by M$ to keep the superior Linux out!"

      Now that the lying is over with, lets talk some truth, shall we? The problem here is you seem to be confusing updating and upgrading, which is understandable, since witha crazy 6 month release schedule on Linux they're the same thing. what I am talking about is SECURITY UPDATES, okay? Like Windows Auto updates, yes? Now you say most users "never upgrade their OS" while what I am saying is they DO USE autoupdates, which they can't in Linux. They can't because 1.-Either a retailer has to completely disable them to keep their hardware working (Which BTW, is what Dell does with Ubuntu. check the repos, it is set to a Dell repo that almost never gets an update) or they have to deal with a completely broken OS either every year and a half (for non LTS) or every 3 (for LTS) and in BOTH cases more often than not updates will STILL break hardware, to which you get told "Meh, they'll fix it in the next OS"

      You are also giving me the "CLI has magical gonad powers" speech while again missing the point. I'm your customer, okay? And I tell you "me NO WANT ClI", and your answer is "but it is better in every way" and I say "me NO WANT CLI", to which you say "It is more powerful and makes you leet!" and I say "How much is Windows again?". See the problem bert? The customer is always right, and the customer has spoken years ago, and they don't want to play your reindeer games. You can talk about its magical gonad powers all you want, they don't care. They want "Clicky clicky" with pretty GUIs and wizards for everything. You see they don't give a wet shit about OSes, they just want to do what THEY want, be it edit pics, or play Farmville, print that photo of their GF, whatever. But instead of listening to your customers and doing things THEY want, you try to force them to act the way YOU want, which is why Windows continues to kick your ass. Because MSFT pays good money to focus groups, and has lots of beta tests, and makes damned sure there isn't a SINGLE thing that can't be done in a GUI. None.

      In the end you and your friends can call me nasty names and downmod me ALL you want, but it won't make black become white, nor will it change reality. Numbers don't lie, and nobody wants your OS in the consumer space. Walmart tried it, the returns made it not worth having. dell tried it, and ended up setting up a Dell repo that never updates to keep the hardware from breaking. I tried it, and spent more time trawling forums every time an update came out (and by update I mean SECURITY updates, not the six month merry go round, which is sad when folks with a straight face tell you "don't touch it for 6 months, its too buggy!") than I did actually selling PCs. Listen to your customers the retailers and OEMs, ask them what they want and then give it to them. That is how you succeed, not trying to force your CS grad ways onto them. Why do you think Apple is currently kicking so much ass? Because they design kick ass UIs where you NEVER need a CLI, ever!

      Make it stable, make it simple to update and upgrade without breaking the machine, make it so they never need CLI. Do this and gain share, don't and enjoy your 1%. Notice how the big talk now is ARM, just like netbooks before it? Notice what more and more and MORE of them are coming with? Does the words WinCE ring any bells? Folks want an easy GUI that is all "clicky clicky" yet time after time Linux devs ignore the people and try to force nerd heaven upon them. Numbers don't lie, and after 15 years having a pathetic 1% of the market should be a giant wakeup call that new direction is needed, instead we get yet another flavor of Ubuntu that still doesn't really work. If Linux was a for profit it would have filed chapter 11 years ago, yet nobody listens, nobody cares, everyone continues to try to force their CLI crap onto people that don't want it and care more about new code than fixing bugs. You know what they say the definition of insanity is, right?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    28. Re:So... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Thank you. Notice how quickly I got modded down for daring to go against groupthink? Not to mention all the "it works for me" implying that I must be an idiot. Gotta love Linux elitism!

      But I'm not asking for miracles here folks. Not asking for wobbly windows, don't care if Linux is 20% slower than windows even, all I want is some good QA and the ability to leave updates on without having my gut tied in a knot waiting for Ubuntu to shit itself and die if I dare to allow it to update. Just look at what Dell had to do, set up their own repos and disable the majority of updates, just to get their hardware to continue working! I'm just a little mom&pop, I can't afford that just to save a whole $100 on the price of an OS.

      And lets be honest folks: guys with CS degrees don't buy retail. The folks that buy retail will NEVER take an OS that is so heavily dependent on CLI, and because I stand by my products I would end up having to waste more time in support with Linux, which hurts my bottom line. Folks here can spread that "Windows gets viruses in 2 seconds, oh noes!" FUD all they want, but the simple fact is since SP2 on XP Windows with a good AV and just a tiny bit of common sense (don't open attachments, don't use IE, keep the OS up to date) will run faithfully for years without problems.

      When was the last time you had to go CLI with Linux? This month? This week? Today? When was the last time you had to trawl the forums because "Update foo broke my (insert hardware)"? Last month? 3 months ago? I just recently replaced some Win2K boxes I built for an office with Win7 Pro. They got nearly a decade of work out of them, no need to call me except to add nodes to the network or upgrade hardware. Does anybody here honestly believe that a Linux machine built a decade ago and kept updated with patches would have continued to work THIS long, without a single admin intervention? Really?

      The problem is most of the FUD the FLOSS advocates are slinging hasn't been true since Win9x. If you want to compete in a market you have to see what the market leaders, in this case MSFT and Apple, are doing right and do it BETTER, not just different. Folks want simple, folks want easy, folks do NOT want CLI, and OEMs and retailers like myself want to sell a PC and know the hardware that works when we sell it will still be working 3 years from now. While I like the Linux security model and hope that someday someone will come along and make the above points reality, it just isn't there yet. It is too complex, it is too unstable, and at the slightest problem you have to go back to a 70s era CLI just to get anything done. I'm sorry guys, but that just isn't acceptable, which is why no big box retailer is selling your OS, and no mom&pop like me will sell or support it ATM. No Sale.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    29. Re:So... by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      If you jailbreak it, you can restore the unix userland tools which apple removed.

      Fair enough, I didn't know that. Does it multitask then? What is stripped out of it? (Curious, not flaming.)

    30. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What Canonical should do, after this, is setup an opt-in app store, such that users can support developers if they want to.

      well Novell was in the process of making an 'open-source app store'
      or well planning one.

    31. Re:So... by Scoth · · Score: 1

      I love my Stylistic 2300s, I've ended up with several. One running Win98 being a BBS, one running Gentoo that was actually a server for awhile, and another I managed to get XP Tablet Edition running on. Actually handles XP better than you'd expect, but it's pretty slow.

  4. Why so long? by crhylove · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The iPad is out NOW. Windows tablets will be out SOON. Why be so late to the game? I don't understand the slowness of FOSS to catch Win/Mac.

    --
    I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
    1. Re:Why so long? by QuantumG · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No-one gives a shit about tablet computers. Never have.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    2. Re:Why so long? by Kitkoan · · Score: 4, Informative

      The iPad is out NOW. Windows tablets will be out SOON. Why be so late to the game? I don't understand the slowness of FOSS to catch Win/Mac.

      And the android tablet was out in 2009. I don't understand why the Win/Mac are so slow to catch up...

      --
      Attention... all grammer nazi"s! Is they're anything; wrong with: my post,
    3. Re:Why so long? by cupantae · · Score: 4, Insightful

      *sigh*

      FIRST of all, tablet PC's are over 10 years old.

      Second of all, the reason FOSS always seem to be behind Win/Mac is that when there is a FOSS project which is pioneering something, it is usually not advertised and ignored until one of these companies comes along and claims to have invented it. When MS/Apple pioneer something, they spend millions telling the world about it. It then becomes relevant to people that there is a FOSS version of this famous thing.

      So, in summary:
      FOSS comes first -> not a big deal until the others do it.
      Proprietary comes first -> FOSS are lagging behind.

      Mmmkay?

      --
      --
    4. Re:Why so long? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How much money can Microsoft invest in putting touch drivers into Windows 7? How much money can a company with a fixed six-month release cycle who puts out free software invest? For that matter, how much development time have you invested into making Ubuntu what it is?

      Personally I'm just a leach - I barely touch alphas and betas and have only started to participate in the forums and bug reports to help collect information, but I understand full well why my Touchscreen PC works flawlessly under Windows 7 but barely functions under Ubuntu.

      On the plus side, I don't think Mac has any idea about how a touchscreen works either so at least Microsoft is ahead of them. It's only the gadgets that Reverend Jobs seems to think are worthy of his efforts.

    5. Re:Why so long? by Shellfish_Jean · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There has been lots of suggestions but as you can see from my submission it gets downvoted pretty mercilessly on Ubuntu Brainstorm http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/23527/

    6. Re:Why so long? by chilvence · · Score: 2, Insightful

      FOSS is more than that, its primary tangible benfit is that it keeps people safe from being milked for every penny they are worth for everyday software that everyone should get the benefit of. Without it there wouldn't be innovation, know that too.

    7. Re:Why so long? by blair1q · · Score: 2, Insightful

      FIRST of all, tablet PC's are over 10 years old.

      Sure. But what cool technology ever hits the big time on its first birthday?

      PCs were around for 15 years before the web sold them to your grandma's friends.

      Tablet PCs before the iPad were clunky and slow computers with weird connectivity and someone trying to pump you up for balky character recognition as their greatest feature.

      Now they're big-screen smartphones, and everyone wants one.

    8. Re:Why so long? by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      ...it's all about interest.

      If there's interest, there can be a better experience on Linux than Windows 7. Beating MacOS/PhoneOS is a much lower bar.

      Personally, I want tablets that don't skimp on the parts and aren't gravely restricted to what they can do or are allow to do.

      I'm not holding my breath on Redmond here...

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    9. Re:Why so long? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, what Apple have done with the ipad is taken the decade-old idea of a Tablet PC and remove the PC part of it. Now it's just a "Tablet". This confuses people like you and I because we expect things like text input and connectivity and multitasking in a Tablet, but that's only because we are still using the old terminology. The words "Tablet" and "Tablet PC" used to be synonymous, but now thanks to Apple they are not. The ipad is not a PC and doesn't try to be a PC, it's a dumbed down appliance, a "big smartphone" as you call it, for people who do not want or cannot handle a real PC.

      In a way it really is a new type of device -- it's just not one that you or I would want anything to do with. Other companies will still continue to make PCs and Laptops and Tablet PCs, and now they will also make this new thing, the Tablet, because there's apparently a huge market for it. Comparing the ipad tablet with the tablet PCs of the old days is like comparing a Speak & Spell to a word processor. Apples and Oranges. Just buy one for your children or your technologically challenged family members and let them have their fun while you keep using the devices that suit your own needs.

    10. Re:Why so long? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IMHO that's because the implementation has been fucked from the beginning.

      Tablets should be used as a monitor/psuedo-thin client to a local computer. Use it as a monitor at your desk with a bluetooth keyboard and mouse. Pick it up and use your home computer on the john, in the garage or the kitchen. Take it to the office and use your work computer through it. Go the coffe shop use it as a tablet pc.

      This is the model that will start selling these things. We have the technology.

    11. Re:Why so long? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How come that never made a splash?

      If an Android tablet is put on sale in a forest and nobody buys it, does anybody care?

    12. Re:Why so long? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Come on. It looks like trolliness but it's just plain honesty.

    13. Re:Why so long? by QuantumG · · Score: 3, Interesting

      On my desk I want a big monitor, whereas a tablet computer should be as small as is practical. Where I would put a tablet computer, if anyone sold one for a price that was actually worth paying, is on my coffee table. The laptop I have on it now is clunky to use while lazing on the couch. I expect if ASUS ever get their act together I'll buy one of theirs and install this Ubuntu on it.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    14. Re:Why so long? by clarkn0va · · Score: 1

      Just buy two for your children or your technologically challenged family members and let them have their fun while you keep using the devices that suit your own needs.

      Fixed that for you.

      --
      I am literally 3000 tokens away from the chaotic crossbow --Stephen
    15. Re:Why so long? by Kitkoan · · Score: 1

      How come that never made a splash?

      If an Android tablet is put on sale in a forest and nobody buys it, does anybody care?

      Maybe a lack of a massive marketing campaign? Notice how the older models of androids didn't sell well, but when the Motorola Droid did a huge marketing campaign, it sold amazingly well? Same (more or less) tech, just had the marketing to go behind it. Never underestimate the power of a good marketing budget.

      --
      Attention... all grammer nazi"s! Is they're anything; wrong with: my post,
    16. Re:Why so long? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Microsoft has had their OS on tablets longer than you've probably been using computers. At least 10 years. If you have been using computers longer than that you should be ashamed of yourself for being so slow to know this. It's been mentioned numerous times around here and several of them have had moderate success.

    17. Re:Why so long? by Kitkoan · · Score: 1

      Microsoft has had their OS on tablets longer than you've probably been using computers. At least 10 years. If you have been using computers longer than that you should be ashamed of yourself for being so slow to know this. It's been mentioned numerous times around here and several of them have had moderate success.

      Yes, I know, I had one. But those were a desktop OS smacked into a tablet-style device, if you wish to get technical about it. These newer tablets are made with the touchscreen in mind at the beginning, not the end. Though if you prefer, we could also claim that the old Palm PDA's are tablets that predate all of this...

      --
      Attention... all grammer nazi"s! Is they're anything; wrong with: my post,
    18. Re:Why so long? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      I have a tablet from the early 1990s which I bought at a second hand place for the sake of curiosity. It runs windows 3.1

    19. Re:Why so long? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      those were a desktop OS smacked into a tablet-style device, if you wish to get technical about it.

      Oh, really? That's news to me and everyone else who owned a tablet long before the iPod generation came along. And BTW: if you wish to get technical about this, touchscreen != tablet. Tablet is a form factor and I'll stop you from getting into a pissing match now by telling you that the Archos unit in question isn't the first tablet PC with touchscreen capabilities even if that were a qualifier.

      Let's be honest here: either you're a n00b or a liar. You told us that tablets were first OSS. When you got called out on it you acted like you knew all along and claimed that the OS really wasn't a tablet OS. Now you've been called out on that too. You're wrong. Any way you try to slice it at this point you're wrong and attempting to back peddle is only going to make you look like more of an ass who doesn't know when to give in when you've been proven wrong.

      It's ok that OSS isn't the Superman of computing. It doesn't have to be to have something worth paying attention to. Most of us who are pragmatic about computing gave up the fanboi fantasies a long time ago. Join us in the real world and either take some time to listen and learn or do us a favor and stop lying to make your little cult look good. Ok?

      While your bullshit post got modded up, the fact of the matter is that to anyone who really matters here you look like a ninth grade asshat who thinks he's the king of the junior high computer lab. Most of us have seen people like you before and we know well enough to avoid you when possible.

    20. Re:Why so long? by Kitkoan · · Score: 1

      touchscreen != tablet. Tablet is a form factor

      Well that would explain why I didn't mention the touch screen computers from the 80's that are used in businesses for sales...

      Let's be honest here: either you're a n00b or a liar. You told us that tablets were first OSS.

      And where did I say that tablets were OSS? This is the first time I've even mentioned OSS. Believe it or not, but the computer world isn't limited to Windows, Mac and the rest are OSS.

      When you got called out on it you acted like you knew all along and claimed that the OS really wasn't a tablet OS. Now you've been called out on that too. You're wrong. Any way you try to slice it at this point you're wrong and attempting to back peddle is only going to make you look like more of an ass who doesn't know when to give in when you've been proven wrong.

      From your own Wikipedia link, it states that WinXP tablet edition was made it 2004 (opposed to the normal WinXP made in 2001, 3 years before), and was an 'edition' (meaning MODIFIED version) and when its modified it means that this was a later thought of idea and not the starting one. You just proved me right, not wrong.

      It's ok that OSS isn't the Superman of computing. It doesn't have to be to have something worth paying attention to. Most of us who are pragmatic about computing gave up the fanboi fantasies a long time ago. Join us in the real world and either take some time to listen and learn or do us a favor and stop lying to make your little cult look good. Ok?

      Again, you bring up OSS like its some kind of hidden trump card. I never mentioned OSS at any point, you brought it up to try to use it against me. And 'join the real world' and stop lying that OSS isn't good for computering? Try to remember, most servers run OSS, routers, many desktops (even the Apple's own OSX is made from OSS...) How much more 'real world' is needed?

      While your bullshit post got modded up, the fact of the matter is that to anyone who really matters here you look like a ninth grade asshat who thinks he's the king of the junior high computer lab. Most of us have seen people like you before and we know well enough to avoid you when possible.

      Don't worry, everyone here that can really think knows that when you make up 'facts' (like claiming I've been trying to push OSS when never mentioning it or even hinting at it...) to try to disprove others, it shows you to be a stupid troll. Thanks for trying though.

      --
      Attention... all grammer nazi"s! Is they're anything; wrong with: my post,
    21. Re:Why so long? by insertwackynamehere · · Score: 1

      No. No one gave a shit about tablet computers until the iPad came out. The sales prove that for the first time ever, people did give a shit about tablet computers. No one else manages to implement a tablet computer in the way that Apple did that brought success. In the end, you may not be an Apple fan or hate the iPad, but it succeeded and now, thanks to it, people do give a shit about tablet computers. That is why Ubuntu is making one right now.

      Instead of innovating, they are playing catchup. Because like you, they thought no one gave a shit about tablet computers.

    22. Re:Why so long? by insertwackynamehere · · Score: 1

      I'm using an iPad right now. It's lightweight, powerful and lets me do a lot of things I'd want to do that don't involve coding, developing or serious work. I don't own it for those reasons; I have an MBP for that. I have an iPad for web browsing, email, movies, and lightweight PC-as-an-appliance tasks. Just because I'm compsci and do serious work on computers doesn't mean I can't use a nice, simple sexy device for relaxing computing purposes. Thats what the iPad was made for and guess what: that's what people wanted, judging by sales. Why is this so hard to understand?

    23. Re:Why so long? by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      No-one who bought an iPad bought a tablet computer... they bought a hit of Steve's bong, that's all. The vast majority of people who bought an iPad would happily give it back for a full refund if Apple offered one.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    24. Re:Why so long? by insertwackynamehere · · Score: 1

      Gotcha bro you know what you're totally right.

    25. Re:Why so long? by unapersson · · Score: 1

      I'm surprised no one's mentioned Nokia's N800, that was a fully fledged internet tablet running Maemo that was a precursor to the iPad, having much more in common with it than the tablet PCs of the time. Though it did support flash. Later firmware revisions brought a portable version of firefox and a more finger friendly UI. Though the soft keyboard always supported stylus or finger input. Mine must be about four years old now.

    26. Re:Why so long? by WillDraven · · Score: 1

      This isn't exactly relevant to your post but the idea just struck me while reading it so it's getting posted here.

      I would love to see a tablet (and it wouldn't hurt laptops to have these either) with a couple of USB ports in slots that are receded about 2 inches into the case. That way you could use your wireless mouse/keyboard and cell network dongles without having them sticking way out where you can snap them off if you forget about them while sitting on the couch.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    27. Re:Why so long? by jsight · · Score: 1

      It's an old version of the OS, it does not have the android market (unless the user puts the hacked version onto the device), early versions lacked full 3D games support, and from what I recall it had no accelerometer.

      Also, every time I see one in the store, it's sitting there crashed, requiring a forced-reset.

      IOW, it's typical of an Archos product, and therefore didn't make a splash.

    28. Re:Why so long? by mdwh2 · · Score: 0

      No one gave a shit about tablet computers until the iPad came out.

      The important point however is that the vast amounts of media hype and coverage came before it shipped - hell, before it was even announced! So let's drop this myth. It wasn't that Apple have been the first to make a popular tablet. Rather no one still cares about tablets, but because it's Apple, we get vast amounts of coverage, even for the Ipad.

      The sales prove that for the first time ever

      The sales prove that, yet again, if you have vast amounts of free advertising and hype in the media, for many months before release, you're bound to sell a few of them.

      Yes, I expect that tablets will gradually become more popular, now that touchscreens are common, and as prices fall. A key factor will be when they become comparable in price to netbooks (of which the Ipad is not).

      No, it isn't Apple that solely caused this revolution - the trend towards mobile computing has been happening gradually and inevitably, thanks to many companies.

      No one else manages to implement a tablet computer in the way that Apple did that brought success. In the end, you may not be an Apple fan or hate the iPad, but it succeeded and now, thanks to it, people do give a shit about tablet computers.

      Spoken like a true Apple fan.

      There are many other tablets, along with touch netbooks etc, that also succeeded, and were around before the Ipad. People who bought them evidently cared about them. No, there wasn't the absurd amounts of hype, but I'm not sure why that matters. The only people I see who started caring about tablets just because Apple made one, are people who were already Apple fans, which says it all about those people.

      That is why Ubuntu is making one right now. Instead of innovating, they are playing catchup.

      Then they're also playing catchup to Microsoft, who added touch capabilities to Windows before the Ipad was even announced, and people were still making claims about vaporware (remember the Islate?)

      They're playing catchup because they don't have billions of dollars to spend on development. But there's nothing special about Apple here, unfortunately this is a problem open source faces against all commercial software.

      Apple have been playing catchup in the phone market too, by the way, but no one seems to have a problem with that. Indeed, let me play the typical Apple tactic, for Ubuntu here: "What you don't realise is that having a tablet was a bad thing, so it was actually a feature that Ubuntu didn't run on tablets. But when Ubuntu does it, they'll make it so that it works. It'll be thanks to Ubuntu that people start caring about tablets. They might not be the first to do something, but they innovate and make it work properly. Other companies like Microsoft and Apple just copy." See? Easy when you can just make up claims, and pretend that what you personally care about is also representative which what the market as a whole uses.

    29. Re:Why so long? by insertwackynamehere · · Score: 2, Insightful

      All of your arguments rely on the concept that if something is marketed or pushed onto the population, it should be disqualified from the success race. It ignores that fact that this is exactly why anything would succeed; that and the fact that they made it to an already popular design (the iPhone). It combined two things; a device that already is similar enough to something already used by customers and hype. Apple has succeeded more than any other company in popularizing and selling a tablet. Because of it's popularity, others are now trying to piggy back off Apple's success now that they have paved the way for it with advertising. You really don't have a coherent argument here; at the end of your post you say "see I can do that" and replace Apple with Ubuntu in a quote I had in which I say everyone is now just playing catchup to Apple. The fact is, people aren't playing catch up to Ubuntu, creator of the uPad, so I don't quite understand your point. If Ubuntu and some hardware developer released an extremely successful tablet (let's say Asus built it) and then Apple rushed in with the iPad shortly afterwards, then Ubuntu would have paved the trail.

      There may have been other tablets before the iPad, but none of them had such widespread hype. You even agree to this. But seeing as how that is my point, I don't know why you are arguing. Apple hyped up the iPad a lot. Apple sold millions of iPads within months of launch. Now everyone else wants to compete. This is fact. Any other tablets from X years ago are obsolete. They may have seen moderate success when they came out but where are they now and what did they do to really strongarm the market into competing with them? Why didn't Ubuntu come out with a tablet OS then?

      Furthermore, Apple is important in the mobile world too. I know other companies are also important and the shift to mobile computing has been going on for a while, but Apple has forced ATT to expand their infrastructure and the iPhone and now iPad userbase has redefined mobile user in the sense that they use the most data out of any smart phone user out their. I know they are singlehandedly redefining mobile computing, but they have managed to strongarm American cellular providers, directly with ATT and by extension the rest of them because of the change in the marketplace. This is a great direction because it means that infrastructures will be built and artificial prices will drop for data transfer in the long run, leading to a world where mobile computing is faster, easier and less expensive in general.

    30. Re:Why so long? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's funny, I don't understand the slowness of Win/Mac to catch up to FOSS.

    31. Re:Why so long? by Pollardito · · Score: 1

      Onscreen keyboards aren't new to tablets, you're telling me that not even having the option of character recognition (like the iPad) is a feature?

    32. Re:Why so long? by blair1q · · Score: 1

      No, I'm saying that character recognition persistently failed to make tablets marketable to a wide audience.

      The Apple logo, a shiny metal back, and access to the app store, on the other hand, has sold about a million of them.

  5. Re:Another iPad wannabe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are you claiming that apple invented the tablet computer?

  6. FFS - winter in which part of the world? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    When will comapnaies/websites with worldwide audiences wake up and realise that usign terms like 'ready in the winter' is NOT conducive to setting expectations equally? 'Winter' is completely relative to where in the world you are located.
    How about using something somewhat universally acepted like '3rd quarter', or even better - state the damned month directly and give youyself an actual target/deadline!

    1. Re:FFS - winter in which part of the world? by Garridan · · Score: 5, Funny

      Perhaps they, like the DNF team, refer to the winter in Ecuador.

    2. Re:FFS - winter in which part of the world? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not only that, but even if you assume they're talking about the Northern hemisphere, it could mean January-March 2010 or December 2010.

  7. X11? by walterbyrd · · Score: 0

    If this has X11, I doubt it will be especially lightweight. I also doubt that graphics will be worthwhile.

    For a tablet device, why is Ubuntu better than Android?

    1. Re:X11? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      Why would it have to? They could very easily adapt a desktop based on Qt Embedded or something. Think Meego.

    2. Re:X11? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Does anyone remember X11 running a 486-100mhz with 16Meg of memory?

      Have you actually measured the performance/overhead of rendering on X11?

      Then you suggest Android...

    3. Re:X11? by icebraining · · Score: 2, Informative

      If this has X11, I doubt it will be especially lightweight.

      Hmm, why? Xorg uses less than 5MB in all PCs I have.

      I also doubt that graphics will be worthwhile.

      Again, why? Xorg may currently have many hacks, but it works fine. Linux based OSes were of the first to show desktops as 3D surfaces, and even have real time video playing on them.

    4. Re:X11? by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Linux based OSes were of the first to show desktops as 3D surfaces,

      Yeah except for the fact that they weren't. Apple and Microsoft were showing it off before Compiz existed.

      and even have real time video playing on them.

      That's funny cause my Amiga was doing that before the first revision of the Linux kernel even existed.

    5. Re:X11? by blair1q · · Score: 0, Troll

      he didn't say X11 graphics wouldn't be fast

      he said they'd still suck, like they always have

    6. Re:X11? by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Informative

      X11? Pfffft. Some of us quite happily ran X11 on 486s. The problem is not X11.

      Any tablet is going to be heavily dependent on proper GPU drivers regardless of what's powering it. Ubuntu has an advantage for being more open and having a wider developer base that also includes power users. The bar is much lower and the community is more interesting.

      Hardware that is already supported in Ubuntu has an advantage here.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    7. Re:X11? by oakgrove · · Score: 4, Informative

      If this has X11, I doubt it will be especially lightweight.

      Er, the Nokia n series including the 770, n8x0 and n900 all use X11. Works fantastically.

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    8. Re:X11? by icebraining · · Score: 1

      Yeah except for the fact that they weren't. Apple and Microsoft were showing it off before Compiz existed.

      Apple: Bullshit. They were submitting for patents on that, indicating they could something like it in December 2008. Here's the /. story.
      As for Microsoft, maybe they had some demos, but nothing real until Vista, which was the first Windows with a compositing wm (Desktop Window Manager).

      By these dates, Compiz had already been forked and that fork (Beryl) had already re-merged.

      That's funny cause my Amiga was doing that before the first revision of the Linux kernel even existed.

      Real time video playing on distorted 3D surfaces on the normal desktop? (demos and games are different).
      Then I'm seriously impressed. Doesn't deny what I said, though.

    9. Re:X11? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For a tablet device, why is Ubuntu better than Android?

      It is better because developers can write apps in the language of their choice and are not restricted to Java.

    10. Re:X11? by walterbyrd · · Score: 0

      Does anyone remember X11 running a 486-100mhz with 16Meg of memory?

      I have done that sort of thing, lots of times. Every time, it makes me think that Linux zealots must have a screw loose. One thing I can tell you for certain: NT 4.0 graphics were far superior on such a system.

      Right now, I am running X11 on 3ghz system with 2gb of ram, and the performance is barely adequate. It pixelates like made. I get flicker, and tracing. Performance is far inferior to XP running on the same system.

      I have not done any side by side comparisons with Android, but as I understand it, android was designed for devices. X-Window was designed for a network where a separate computer ran the windows manager. X-Window was also designed for systems that did not have a numeric processor, so X uses integers instead of floating point, which is why we get so much pixelation with X.

    11. Re:X11? by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      he said they'd still suck, like they always have

      Those who fail to understand X11 are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.

      Sadly, many people using Unix today fail to understand the benefits of a client-server architecture which doesn't care whether it's rendering in the same computer or a completely different architecture and operating system on the other side of the planet.

    12. Re:X11? by Homburg · · Score: 2, Informative

      MeeGo uses X11, it seems.

    13. Re:X11? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> Does anyone remember X11 running a 486-100mhz with 16Meg of memory?
      >
      > I have done that sort of thing, lots of times. Every time, it makes me think that Linux zealots must have a screw loose. One thing I can tell you for certain: NT 4.0
      > graphics were far superior on such a system.

      Done what lots of times ? Installed Linux and X11 on a 486?

      > Right now, I am running X11 on 3ghz system with 2gb of ram, and the performance is barely adequate. It pixelates like made. I get flicker, and tracing. Performance is > far inferior to XP running on the same system.

      You should publish the results of such and amazing analysis somewhere. I'm sure many benchmarks say the same thing... help us find them.

      > I have not done any side by side comparisons with Android, but as I understand it, android was designed for devices. X-Window was designed for a network where a separate computer ran the windows manager. X-Window was also designed for systems that did not have a numeric processor, so X uses integers instead of floating point, which is why we get so much pixelation with X.

      You have no idea what you are talking about.

    14. Re:X11? by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

      Does anyone remember X11 running a 486-100mhz with 16Meg of memory?

      No, but I ran X11 as a parallel desktop on a 20MHz 386 with 12MB of RAM.

      XFree86's X11 could be installed and run as a full-screen application under OS/2, in parallel with the WPS/PM desktop. This was on a Toshiba T5200 "laptop" in the 1990s. Performance of both native OS/2 PM and X11 applications was quite snappy, even with the OS/2 NFS client+server running. In fact, I often ran a third desktop in parallel (full-screen WinOS2) for MS-Office applications.

      My recollection of OS/2 (WPS+XFree86+WinOS2) on a 386 is quite pleasant. Thanks for reminding me!

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    15. Re:X11? by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      not to mention those devices have unremarkable rendering chips by tomorrow's standards. If the existing nvidia binary blob or nouveau equivalent could be used with a tegra2 we might have some serious grunt!

    16. Re:X11? by blair1q · · Score: 1

      Supporting that sort of relocation is what makes the graphics suck.

      But because they're cheap and have that relocatability nobody wants to make the effort to un-suck them, so they continue to suck once they're implemented.

      Though you're right. Portability is nice.

      But, again, it's the sort of thing sought after by the cheap, and induces cheapness in what is written to use it.

  8. @crhylove by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The answer to your question: Money. By the way, Windows tablets have been around for over well over ten years. I had an IBM slate with a monochrome screen!

    1. Re:@crhylove by mirix · · Score: 1

      There is a reply button. Then messages are threaded. This makes things easier to follow.

      --
      Sent from my PDP-11
    2. Re:@crhylove by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This isn't twitter. There's a reply button.

  9. What are the odds... by neiras · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I hope they hire a UI designer who isn't an Apple admirer. We need fresh ideas...

  10. Window Buttons by chargersfan420 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I wonder if anyone over at Canonical is now thinking this:
    "Okay, so we're now designing a touch-screen version. Considering how many right-handed people are out there, maybe it wasn't such a good idea to move the window controls to the left-hand side of the screen."

    Doesn't seem so ergonomic anymore, now, does it?

    1. Re:Window Buttons by IANAAC · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I wonder if anyone over at Canonical is now thinking this: "Okay, so we're now designing a touch-screen version. Considering how many right-handed people are out there, maybe it wasn't such a good idea to move the window controls to the left-hand side of the screen."

      You can change that. You know that, right?

    2. Re:Window Buttons by chargersfan420 · · Score: 1

      Yes, of course. My favourite way of changing it is:

      sudo apt-get install emerald

      But it still bothers me just a little bit. It makes me think that Ubuntu is going in a direction that I don't want to go.

    3. Re:Window Buttons by moonbender · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A tablet version will probably try to run apps full screen anyway, with a few possible exceptions. Ubuntu Netbook Remix already works that way, and I assume the tablet edition will take the netbook concepts one step further. Classic windowing controls don't really apply, though clearly there will still be a need to close windows/applications.

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    4. Re:Window Buttons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      But it still bothers me just a little bit. It makes me think that Ubuntu is going in a direction that I don't want to go.

      left?

    5. Re:Window Buttons by oblio_one · · Score: 1

      I believe WebOS's "window manager" is an excellent way to handle this situation (full screen apps with minimal window control needed.) Apps start up in full screen, a hardware button reduces them about 1/3 the screen size and all open apps/windows are shown in a long chain you can use flick gestures to scroll through them. An upward flick gesture closes them. Very easy / intuitive / and fast. On a tablet with more horsepower you can handle more apps, may want to have multiple chains instead of a single, maybe a limit of ten or so apps per chain ?

    6. Re:Window Buttons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful


      I wonder if anyone over at Canonical is now thinking this:
      "Okay, so we're now designing a touch-screen version. Considering how many right-handed people are out there, maybe it wasn't such a good idea to move the window controls to the left-hand side of the screen."

      You can change that. You know that, right?

      Yes, and a million potential users of the Ubuntu tablet will Google the instructions to move the controls to the right, sift through tens of incomplete/made up/incomprehensible HOWTOs, execute the arcane instructions, edit config files hidden under /etc/swizzlestick/config_broker/beware_of_leopard/FIXME/ and restart the X server.

      Or they will go buy an iPad and leave you wondering what went wrong.

    7. Re:Window Buttons by hellocatfood · · Score: 1

      The way I see it is this: They want controls on the left and all notification things on the right. The could've done it the other way around but they didn't. Get over it.

    8. Re:Window Buttons by chargersfan420 · · Score: 1

      While your post is hilarious, I'll pretend for a moment that it wasn't rhetorical.

      The direction I see them going in is more Mac-like. Window buttons on the left. A default purple theme. They're going in the direction Shuttleworth wants to take them, to his vision of Ubuntu, and it sounds eerily similar to the house that jobs built. I'd rather see them go in a direction the Ubuntu community wants to go... something of a more democratic process, although I'm not exactly sure what that is, but changes to appease Shuttleworth seem like the exact opposite of that.

  11. Re:Another iPad wannabe? by Garridan · · Score: 1

    I dunno... who wouldn't want a uPad?

  12. It's the apps stupid by DCMonkey · · Score: 1

    Are they going to redesign those "most used apps" too? A simple touch friendly veneer won't do much good if all it does is throw you into an instance of the Gimp or OO.org.

    --
    DCMonkey
    1. Re:It's the apps stupid by Shidash · · Score: 1

      That problem will be solved if there is a way to get something like the iPad on dual boot with this OS.

    2. Re:It's the apps stupid by spagetti_code · · Score: 4, Informative
      You are correct - Its the APPS.

      If this is a business device, the killer app is OneNote. Sure tablets dont suit a lot of people, but if you want to take notes, do research, read and link information, be mobile etc... Onenote is it. Evernote is not. (right idea, wrong execution). There are also niche applications (medical etc), but from a general business focus... do Onenote.

      If its a consumer device - create an open iPad. BUT you will also need to ensure that Music, Reading, Web browsing, Gaming, Sharing work brilliantly. Only Apple has really succeeded with that, as long as you live in their ecosystem. If you can made those apps work openly **and** get the media providers on board, then you stand a chance.

  13. Linux customize for "X" never works by erroneus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Unless every app were designed to run in the new constraints, they won't look, work or act right. Netbook spins of Linux are always just menus with large icons that just make you feel like you are playing with a toy with extremely limited options and usability.

    Maemo just about got it. Droid definitely got it. Making an "Ubuntu" version would need to be more than a new Window manager and selection of packages. It needs a controlled and contained UI that will work within that environment and integrate well.

    This rather leads me to an idea... one that is either really stupid and/or impractical or something else.

    If Linux's X apps were created with an application's equivalent of HTML's "CSS" then perhaps applications could be tremendously more adaptable to different user environments.

    1. Re:Linux customize for "X" never works by Mekabyte · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If Linux's X apps were created with an application's equivalent of HTML's "CSS" then perhaps applications could be tremendously more adaptable to different user environments.

      Sounds like the QML (Declarative UI) portion of Qt Kinetic (and Qt Style Sheets have been around for a while).

    2. Re:Linux customize for "X" never works by erroneus · · Score: 1

      It does but I think there needs to be more. Applications generally expect to run in a window and have tool bars and all the things a typical Window system does. It doesn't leave it open, necessarily to other paradigms. Not saying that I have considered other paradigms or could even imagine one, but considering the iPhone and Maemo, I can imagine a bit where current expectations of current apps won't be too adaptable. Basically, my idea is completely unrefined and not well thought out and would require someone a lot smarter than me to really go where I am vaguely indicating. But the short is that an app might best be able to run as well on an iPhone or Droid device as it does on a Desktop/Window type of interface. And there are other interfaces out there as well. It would call for either "awareness" other other interfaces or enough adaptability that some clever tweakers to create the right CSS to adapt an app to that interface. And it could be that the QtSS thing is exactly what I am thinking -- I don't know about QtSSes let alone its limitations, but I know I'm not at all clever or original so perhaps someone has answered the question well in advance of my even considering the question. Wouldn't be the first time.

    3. Re:Linux customize for "X" never works by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      But Ubuntu has Dell, and Dell has a small, known product line.
      Other netbook lines are the same. Ubuntu gives the world the freedom to support any hardware they like with at any price point.
      HTML's "CSS" sounds good, just need the perfect fonts :)

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    4. Re:Linux customize for "X" never works by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      A long time ago someone got KDE 2.x (could be 1.x) to work with QT embedded without X at all. It was not hard to do and it took a simple recompile of KDEBase. Not all KDE apps worked but the concept is certainly possible. I do not know if this would be possible with KDE today as its much more massive and has more dependencies that use X.

      X.org and XFree86 sucked for a long long time but is tollerable due to decent hardware. Maybe making a gui in QT embedded can be possible?

    5. Re:Linux customize for "X" never works by xtracto · · Score: 1

      Spot on.

      That is the reason iPad and iPhone got it right. People are developping new apps which main interface IS the touch screen. Most of them are not adaptations of old apps but they are built from the ground up.

      The problem with Open Source apps is that a lot of them will have to be heavily modified to use the point and click interface and that won't be pretty.

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    6. Re:Linux customize for "X" never works by bmcage · · Score: 1

      Not really. As it is open source, somebody can just write a new UI layer, reusing the existing code base. I code OSS, doing touch of our app would not be hard. I don't have a tablet or touch device however. I assume that is the biggest barrier for OSS to "catch up". The devices must first be in the hands of the developers.

    7. Re:Linux customize for "X" never works by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maemo just about got it. Droid definitely got it.

      Maemo is Linux. Droid runs Android, which is a modified version of Linux. Although I agree that this Ubuntu version will probably end up being mediocre at best (but I'd love to be proven wrong).

  14. Re:Another iPad wannabe? by Aphoxema · · Score: 0, Troll

    Are you claiming that apple invented the tablet computer?

    They put it on the map, regardless of how long it's been there.

    --
    "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
  15. please don't make me use my fingers as a mouse rep by vladisglad · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm just dying to see the user interface. If there is any instance when I need to use scroll bars to scroll in any application its insta-fail. Same goes for windows.

  16. So who is the Linux darling these days, anyway? by BumpyCarrot · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Canonical or Google?

    --
    Do you see what I did there?
  17. Re:Another iPad wannabe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, but that doesn't change the fact that Ubuntu is me-tooing on Apple's success with the iPad. If they weren't why didn't they announce this years ago?

  18. It seems like at every turn... by jjrff · · Score: 1

    I'm not a huge fan of Ubuntu because of its kitchen sink installations (which I know I can change or I could just track debian...). I'm a huge fan of Ubuntu for others ... because of its kitchen sink installations :) That said, one thing I will give Canonical is at every technology turn they take a real crack at it.

  19. Joy for Dell Streaks? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    Will this work on the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Streak
    Ubuntu as a "something newer" OS would put real computing power and freedom into a larger pocket/messenger bag.
    Could we finally enjoy a flash supporting, codec rich, web friendly OS on usable hardware with real usb?
    I really hope this works and we see a generation of creative computing again vs the DRM, rented, book erasing, push dreams of an Apple, MS, Amazon ect.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    1. Re:Joy for Dell Streaks? by Svartalf · · Score: 1

      I'm sure you can reflash the firmware a' la Cyanogen's stuff- just using an ARM Ubuntu build with the Tablet Remix overlay- and it wouldn't surprise me if they don't have a bit of that kind of thinking going on in their heads right now over in Round Rock.

      --
      I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
  20. Re:please don't make me use my fingers as a mouse by kevinmenzel · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Wait why exactly is a scroll bar bad? Given sane restrictions on how small the scroller can be, it offers a pretty decent way of getting directly to any vertical or horizontal location when presented with more information than the computer can handle. Yes obviously gestures can be used for relative scrolling (Scroll up from here, down from here, etc.) - the beauty of a scroll bar is the potential for either the "tap and you're there" functionality often associated with playback position for audio/video, sometimes volume level, etc. - as well as a "tap and you've scrolled a great distance" functionality more familiar to say, a word processor or web browser, allowing you to click or tap in one place and quickly scroll to that place, covering pages at a time, and stopping when it reaches your absolute position. It seems to me that, in the case of viewing a substantially large amount of information, the combination between a scroll bar and a gesture for scrolling would in fact be QUITE powerful.

  21. The car geeks been there, done that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://wiki.openice.org/index.php?title=Main_Page

  22. Technically... by headkase · · Score: 2, Informative

    Linux is a kernel. This means it's part is a dispatch and control mechanism for the operating system as a whole. The complete operating system includes other things such as libraries and utilities to name some. Correct me if I'm wrong?

    --
    Shh.
    1. Re:Technically... by blair1q · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The Linux Kernel is a kernel.

      Linux is a family of operating systems that are based on one of the Linux kernels or a kernel derived from one.

    2. Re:Technically... by headkase · · Score: 1

      This is where you get into naming such as "GNU/Linux" when talking about the combination of GNU compilers and utilities with the Linux kernel. Often, the essential GNU parts lose their distinction and people just call it "Linux." I personally just say Linux too but Linux depends heavily on GNU.

      --
      Shh.
    3. Re:Technically... by insertwackynamehere · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is where you get into scaring away real users with semantics arguments like this. This is where the year of the Linux desktop never comes around.

    4. Re:Technically... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, and when your mom drops her panties and that gigantic unkempt bush rolls out, that's when I get scared.

      It's cool though. I just fuck the skanky bitch from the back. Woo Hoo!

  23. Building the Open Base. by headkase · · Score: 1

    F/OSS is reimplementing quite a few areas to make that code compatible with itself. On top of that base there are also quite a few innovative and novel F/OSS initiatives already.

    --
    Shh.
  24. Re:please don't make me use my fingers as a mouse by vladisglad · · Score: 1

    If there is some kind of a scroll bar type area to show you your place in the document or to quickly jump further down is one thing. I just don't want to use my finger to tap on the down arrow to move through the document/application/whatever. I'm just curious to see how a windowed user environment could be rigged to facilitate touch gesture. For example, if you have two windows open concurrently side by side how would you move them around on the screen? Will you be able to flick to scroll elements within a windowed application. Obviously the iPad deals with this by allowing a single application in the forefront. Don't get me wrong, I just want them to compete with the iPad. But if the touch interface is still centered around a pointing device paradigm then it defeats the whole purpose of the form factor.

  25. Shuttleworth must be stoned! by TheDarkener · · Score: 4, Insightful

    8.04's focus was stability.
    9.04's focus was netbooks.
    9.10's focus was cloud computing.
    10.04's focus was pretty themes (and apparently dyslexia).
    10.10's focus is now tablets.

    Am I the only one that thinks that a Linux distro should stick with focusing on doing one thing very well? Seems all of these half-baked ideas are just late-night bong-induced dreams that get left at the wayside 6 months later. You just end up getting a bunch of "won't fix" bugs in LP because "the focus is now release+1". /me grows weary of this runaround...

    --
    It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    1. Re:Shuttleworth must be stoned! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      9.10's focus was cloud computing.
      10.04's focus was pretty themes (and apparently dyslexia).
      10.10's focus is now tablets.

      You skipped a few.

      10.10 is clearly not focused on tablets

      11.04 will be released April 2011

      11.10 will be released October 2011, which is the closest date to "Winter of 2011"
      So 11.10 will be focused on tablets, not the two before it :P

    2. Re:Shuttleworth must be stoned! by fm6 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      You've managed to explain why Ubuntu is so damned bloated. I mean, jeez, Linux is usually known for being lean and mean and making absurdly small demands on the hardware. But Ubuntu's system requirements are right up there with Windows!

      I'm reminded of a programmer I used to know who claimed he could only code while stoned. His applications used to have all kinds of baroque options.

      I don't really think the Ubuntu team consists of potheads. I mean, Cannonical is in London, not Amsterdam. But there do seem to be stoner-like attention issues here.

    3. Re:Shuttleworth must be stoned! by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 1

      Am I the only one that thinks that a Linux distro should stick with focusing on doing one thing very well?

      I hope so.

      A useful OS needs to do *MANY* things well. And the UI must be at least not hell to work with, not everyone does everything in a terminal and uses Pine to read their mail... Window GUIs exist because many people prefer them, they should elegant and well designed.

      --
      "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
    4. Re:Shuttleworth must be stoned! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Man, if you can commit to something for 6 months while stoned, you're smoking Ritalin...

    5. Re:Shuttleworth must be stoned! by human-cyborg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ubuntu's one main focus has always been on ease of use of the average user (read: people who are generally not aware of Linux, or even Windows for that matter*) People want a stable experience, that runs on their netbook, stores their stuff so that they can always access it, and looks good while doing it.

      Are you saying that 10.04 is unstable, doesn't work at all on a netbook, and has no support for cloud computing?

      I wouldn't say these are half-baked ideas, I'd say they're more like milestones. I don't think that a distro should focus too much on doing one thing very well, as it will inevitably leave other things very lacking. Ubuntu is going after people who don't have specific interests in any one aspect of computing. These people rate their computer experience not by how well their computer does a task, but by how badly it does it. In short, people won't notice if Ubuntu does something extremely well, they'll just assume that's normal. They will, however, notice when the list of failures starts to grow too long.

      This is why I use Debian. It does many things very well :P

      * User calls the office: My email is broken.
      (several minutes go by as I try to figure out what's wrong with their mail program, just to find out that they don't actually know what a mail program is or what they normally do to check their mail. How people /know/ that their mail is "broken" when they don't actually know how to check their mail is beyond me.)
      Me: We should check that your Internet connection is working. Do you know what operating system you are using?
      User: Uhh... Dell.
      Me: No. What shows up on screen when you first turn your computer on? Do you see blue with clouds and the words Windows XP?
      User: I don't know.
      Me: Is your computer on now?
      User: No.
      Me: Can you turn it on?
      User: No, the computer's at home and I'm at work.
      Me: (facepalms) Bring your computer into our office and we'll sort it out for you. (Turns out it was Windows 2000, what fun.)

    6. Re:Shuttleworth must be stoned! by TheDarkener · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A useful OS needs to do *MANY* things well. And the UI must be at least not hell to work with, not everyone does everything in a terminal and uses Pine to read their mail... Window GUIs exist because many people prefer them, they should elegant and well designed.

      Agreed. That, however, has nothing to do with the fact that each release has steered the entire distribution in a completely different direction.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    7. Re:Shuttleworth must be stoned! by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Open source developers work on what they find fun. You have a problem with that? Go back to Windoze.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    8. Re:Shuttleworth must be stoned! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Recognize a weakness...

      Fix it.

      I think Canonical should stay out of tablets. We have Android, let them contribute to that. I think I'd be hypocritical of them to homogenize the linux desktop and turn around and fragment the mobile market for no good reason.

    9. Re:Shuttleworth must be stoned! by insertwackynamehere · · Score: 1

      This is why no one will ever take Linux seriously in a desktop environment. If the community hates users than a userfriendly version of Linux is doomed from the start.

      This is why Apple works. They believe that you give the customer what they want, or tell them what they want and give that to them, barring everything else. This makes the customer happy and makes Apple money. P.S. The customer is not Apple hating Slashdotters, the customer is the person who already is open to Apple products or neutral, and wants an easy, chic computer. Pretentious? Who cares. It is a shrewd business model that works and quite frankly their systems are acceptable for anyone now seeing as how Vista bombed while Apple announced x86 arhictecture. Using a Mac is no longer a polarizing choose.

    10. Re:Shuttleworth must be stoned! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As Ubuntu's focus always has been about marketing, there's an awful lot of consistency in their strategy.

  26. Re:please don't make me use my fingers as a mouse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    mozilla firefox = instafail? I'd hate to see this entire page smooshed into a single, non-scrolling pane.

  27. Newbie Friendly Too. by headkase · · Score: 1

    The buttons default to the left with the Ambiance and Radiance themes right now. If you select the other themes the buttons go back to the right automatically. No command line voodoo involved for less-seasoned users.

    --
    Shh.
  28. Re:Another iPad wannabe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Who really gives a shit if Ubuntu copies Apple? Apple is the market leader in some areas, like UI for example, but their shit is expensive and non-free. They make locked down shit that I would never purchase (for myself) or use. Canonical makes a distribution of a free operating system that anyone can use, and they are steadily trying to improve it. If Canonical can make something to emulate the market leader in UI design, and their product is also FREE, then what is the problem with that? I can't see how that is NOT a good thing for the average person. Apple may not like it because they are trying to make money, but I don't think we should shed any tears over that.

    It's not like you have to use this tablet OS, anyway. You can use the standard Ubuntu UI if you choose to. That's the nice thing about having a choice, and choices are something that Apple will never willingly give you if you buy their products. I, personally, don't care for dumbed-down interfaces. I didn't care for the netbook remix on my netbook so I installed full-blown Ubuntu on it. If I ever get a "tablet" (i.e. a regular netbook with a touchscreen, not any of this faggy no-keyboard ipad crap), then I will most likely run regular GNOME or KDE on that as well. For my grandma, sure, I will give her Ubuntu Tablet Edition or an ipad or whatever. She would benefit from the simplistic UI and lack of options to confuse her. It's nice that the option is there for those who want it, but that doesn't mean I have to use it.

  29. Re:please don't make me use my fingers as a mouse by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    Wait why exactly is a scroll bar bad?

    for the same reason that having a scroll area on the touchpad is bad, and multitouch scrolling is good. sometimes you mistouch and you scroll when you meant to move, or move when you meant to scroll. but most humans can touch with one finger or two, or for that matter, drag instead of tapping.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  30. it's the best linux jihad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    to supersede the neo-cons, it's world domination by ubuntu no less!

    it's just the best by the sadists!

  31. Re:please don't make me use my fingers as a mouse by jedidiah · · Score: 1

    Insta-fail? Lack of scrollbars cripples the mobile browsers. Their absence on the iThing is merely annoying. Whereas Android could sorely use real scrollbars.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  32. Hope it works on the hardware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Having tried Canonical's last 2 releases on my two Intel-based laptops, and getting only blank black screens once X starts up, I hope they fix their video driver problems.

  33. Don't think the business model will work. by SethJohnson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Don't think the business model will work. Let's use the iPad as an example. The OS isn't the expensive part of that product. Apple sells the iPad for $499 with the understanding that the purchaser will likely buy several apps and many movies through iTunes. You put Ubuntu on there, and the user can apt-get to bypass the App store. Same with movies.

    The other problem is that tablets are media consumption devices, and Netflix doesn't work on Ubuntu.

    Using Linux isn't going to save any hardware manufacturer a significant component cost. And since Android is there for free, there's not a good business argument for bundling Ubuntu.

    Seth

    1. Re:Don't think the business model will work. by fudoniten · · Score: 1

      Cost of development still matters. That's why android works--phone companies want to compete with the iPhone, but they don't want to create a whole new OS. And (snicker) I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the Year of the Windows Tablet.

      As for media...that's a point. But then, it'd be open, so companies could develop the appropriate apps, and you could use the media you already have. I'll point out that Ubuntu has a music store, now...

    2. Re:Don't think the business model will work. by tepples · · Score: 1

      As for media...that's a point. But then, it'd be open, so companies could develop the appropriate apps, and you could use the media you already have.

      But how would companies make sure that you don't tee(1) the audio and video into your WebM encoder so that you can save a Netflix streaming rental permanently?

    3. Re:Don't think the business model will work. by laughingcoyote · · Score: 1

      How would they make sure you don't download it from your favorite Bittorrent tracker, bypassing the need to shell script at all and still giving you a copy to watch whenever you like?

      "Make sure the paid service is less functional and portable than the free one" is probably not the correct answer to that question. It sure hasn't been so far.

      --
      To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
    4. Re:Don't think the business model will work. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Apple sells the iPad for $499 with the understanding that the purchaser will likely buy several apps and many movies through iTunes.

      Are you trying to imply they sell the hardware as a loss leader? You certainly "think different" to most people in the industry.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    5. Re:Don't think the business model will work. by SethJohnson · · Score: 1

      I'm not saying the hardware is a loss-leader. I am saying that a certain amount of their expected profit on the device comes from media sales, otherwise they would charge more than $499 for the iPad.

      Note that no similarly-sized and equipped Android tablets are showing up on shelves with price tags lower than $499.

      Seth

    6. Re:Don't think the business model will work. by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      The OS isn't the expensive part of that product.

      This is the crux of your argument - but is it true? Where's your evidence for this claim?

      It's hard to tell with Apple, because it's all in one. For Windows, the OS cost is significant, and was one reason why Linux has been used on some netbooks, because the fee for the OS is a much larger proportion of the hardware. As tablets fall in price, it will become relevant for them too. Are you claiming that IphoneOS is much cheaper to write than Windows?

      The other problem is that tablets are media consumption devices

      Your evidence for this? I'm not sure it's clear what the market for them is yet. There's media consumption; e-reading; portable Internet devices like netbooks but with touch interface and bigger screen; general computing device again like laptops/netbooks but with touch interface and bigger screen.

      And since Android is there for free

      Well Android is another possible OS they could do this with, I don't think that negates the argument.

    7. Re:Don't think the business model will work. by tepples · · Score: 1

      How would they make sure you don't download it from your favorite Bittorrent tracker

      By suing users of that tracker who happen not to live in Spain.

    8. Re:Don't think the business model will work. by laughingcoyote · · Score: 1

      Wow, why didn't I think of that? Now there's a strategy that's reliably worked.* Never mind then, carry on ignoring the customers.

      *Reliable except every time actually tried.

      --
      To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
    9. Re:Don't think the business model will work. by tepples · · Score: 1

      Now there's a strategy that's reliably worked.*

      *Reliable except every time actually tried.

      Suing users of file sharing apps worked in Capitol v. Thomas-Rasset.

    10. Re:Don't think the business model will work. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, any other tablet coming soon* it's going to have hardware that RAPES the iPad out of it's knickers and they're going to be cheaper. You're comparing to the joojoo? Why not compare to a Lenovo X200 too?

      You just got ripped off, arguing about it does not make it less real. Enjoy you walled garden I like to 0wn my shit.

      *
      Notion Ink Adam
      Innoversal
      ExoPC

  34. Re:please don't make me use my fingers as a mouse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Given sane restrictions on how small the scroller can be, it offers a pretty decent way of getting directly to any vertical or horizontal location when presented with more information than the computer can handle.

    I second this. Kinetic scrolling is OK, but sometimes a scrollbar is just easier. You hear that, phone OS designers? Give me back my fucking scrollbars! Oh wait, I still have them, because I run Windows Mobile 6.5. Lucky Me :)

  35. The only Ubuntu I use anymore is Server by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I've lost hope with Ubuntu making a user friendly desktop experience.

    The full desktop distributions, for a long time, had this obsession with brown and orange, nothing neutral. Now it's purple, which is still not neutral. Even with changing themes it's hard to get rid of all the purple.

    Apps tend to get changed from the default UI to some bastardization of it. I've run into many issues where I'd update to the latest Ubuntu release and I had to relearn various programs.

    Ubuntu Netbook Remix is a half assed attempt at a netbook friendly distribution. Power management is a joke (I get 5 hours out of my netbook in UNR, and 9 hours in Win7). The apps aren't actually modified to work with a netbook; instead, a hack is used (modified window manager and a maximizer tool). Dialogs are left alone, and many are larger than most netbook screens. In short, UNR has been a disaster since its inception and it still is today. Multi-window apps (ie: Empathy) totally break the flow of UNR.

    Ubuntu doesn't really do anything innovative. I only use the server distribution. And really, I could get away with just using Debian, at that point.

    This leads me to believe that a tablet edition will be very poorly designed, engineered, and developed if they are going to stick with a pure Linux root similar to all of their other distributions.

    1. Re:The only Ubuntu I use anymore is Server by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Ubuntu
      >I only use the server distribution.

      Seriously, I can understand using Ubuntu on a desktarp, but are you braindead? Use a real server distribution on a server, for fuck's sake!

    2. Re:The only Ubuntu I use anymore is Server by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      Why would you put Ubuntu on a server? I only have an Ubuntu server because I run xbmc on Ubuntu as MythTV frontends so using Ubuntu for the backend is the easy way to ensure that everything stays consistent between the different boxes; it's about the last distro I'd pick for a general purpose server.

      And while I agree that UNR is a kludge, it works pretty well for what it's designed to do (e.g. web browsing). If I boot Windows on the same netbook and run Windows Update, IE can only display about three lines of text between the menu bars and the border.

  36. Re:Another iPad wannabe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Sorry, I don't use garbage like Loonix.

    And I don't use garbage like iPads. See how that works? Now get back into your cave, troll.

  37. Re:Another iPad wannabe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apology accepted.

  38. So does this mean... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We can just grab the source of Canonical's touch interface and apply it to other distros, like say Gentoo or Arch?

  39. Cold by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Indeed, the winters in Ecuador sure are cold.

  40. Re:please don't make me use my fingers as a mouse by dunng808 · · Score: 1

    First of all, I don't like to use my finger; I prefer a stylus, on a passive digitizer. I may change my tune after using multi-touch, but I have not had the pleasure as yet.

    The Apple Newton deals with the scroll bar issue by limiting the UI to vertical only, and supplying a set of scroll arrows in the toolbar at the bottom of the screen. Tapping an arrow scrolls one page. The important thing is that the location never changes. Some apps add a second set of scroll arrows. In Dates (the calendar), tapping the standard scroll arrows moves forward and back a day, and tapping the special arrows scrolls the current day forward or back about an hour.

    I want a tablet to have all of the power of a current notebook, to include vertical and horizontal scrolling. I like the idea of some key pads located close to the edges of the screen, with four button clusters like a typical game controller. Don't waste valuable screen area on buttons that do not need to be dynamic. I also like scrollbars, but not the Windows/Mac style. I prefer the old Unix (or was it Smalltalk?) style where the size of the scroll depended on how far from the center you clicked.

    Where Windows and Gnome fail is in the implementation of mouse buttons 2 and 3. On my Fujitsu T-1010, Win7 sort of emulates button-2 by a long tap-and-hold, but this does not work well in all applications, most notably Squeak Smalltalk. And, there is no button-3 support at all, which Squeak expects. I have a simple tablet input working in Ubuntu, but it only does button-1, so it is mostly worthless.

    Next up is text entry, but this post is long enough. All I will say is that even in Win7 text entry is too great a compromise. Nothing comes close to a Newton in this regard.

    --

    Gary Dunn
    Open Slate Project

  41. Re:Another iPad wannabe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    http://www.ubuntu.com/news/ubuntu-for-mobile-internet-devices

    TAIPEI, Taiwan, June 7, 2007 - Canonical Ltd., the commercial sponsor of Ubuntu, announced more details on Ubuntu Mobile and Embedded Edition at Computex 2007 in Taipei.

  42. Re:Another iPad wannabe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nice fail there, bro, but that's not the same thing. There's not even a single mention of tablets in that posting. This tablet edition that is announced in the article for this story is separate edition from those.

  43. Re:Another iPad wannabe? by Svartalf · · Score: 1

    Actually, they're not me-tooing it. They've had this in the chips for about the last 3-4 years in some form or another. They've got hardware partners in the mix at this point, though those haven't been announced yet.

    --
    I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
  44. Re:Another iPad wannabe? by Svartalf · · Score: 1

    Considering that the iPad's nothing really special there- it's just an iPhone with a bigger screen. A tablet computer, done right is probably always be an expansion of a MID. The article refers to MIDs- and the iPad's no different there. It's a MID, with a larger screen and 3G access, that's all.

    I'd be careful of calling a "fail" there as it's not where you think it is. :-D

    --
    I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
  45. Tablet Terminology by greenlead · · Score: 1

    We need to come up with new terminology to differentiate between lightweight, embedded iPad-style devices that are not as powerful as laptops, and the traditional laptop with digitizer tablets. The iPad would be better referred to as a PDA than a tablet.

  46. Re:Another iPad wannabe? by some_guy_88 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Well they did invent the graphical user interface, the mp3 player and the smartphone.. oh and they just invented multitasking.

  47. Consumption? by tepples · · Score: 1

    tablets are media consumption devices

    Says who? Plenty of artists use more expensive tablets such as Cintiq for media creation. Or by "consumption" did you mean an old name for TB, which sounds like TV?

  48. Re:Another iPad wannabe? by HBoar · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I don't buy the whole thing about Apple being a market leader in UI. I'd say quite the opposite, actually. From phones with touch screens instead of buttons (how do you use it without looking at it?) to laptops that you have to click with two fingers at once instead of just having a two buttons, their products are full of 'features' that do nothing to improve the user experience. Instead, they just look flashy or are simply different for the sake of being different. I find OSX the same, it's full of silly little quirks that make no sense other than to differentiate them from other OSs. Originally a windows user, I found it MUCH easier to find my way around linux operating systems than OSX. I still struggle every time I have to do set something up on a mac.

    Obviously Apple are market leaders in a number of areas -- perhaps most notably advertising, but also in making attractive, well constructed hardware etc. For all their faults, I do like the well built feeling of their newer macbook pros. I just don't see that their UI design is anything special at all. For this reason, I'll be interested to see what canonical come up with. Pity it'll probably be based around gnome....

  49. Dollar for dollar, winter is in January by tepples · · Score: 1

    'Winter' is completely relative to where in the world you are located.

    There's more land mass in the northern hemisphere and more disposable income too. For example, the majority of the population of industrialized English-speaking markets do not live in Australia, New Zealand, or South Africa. They live in United States, Canada, Great Britain, and Ireland. So with more land mass in the Northern Hemisphere and more developed countries in the Northern Hemisphere (apart from South American countries and South Africa), the majority of wealth experiences winter in the first quarter of the Gregorian year, not the third.

    1. Re:Dollar for dollar, winter is in January by styrotech · · Score: 1

      Not only that - but the products usually don't get released in the southern hemisphere until 6 or 18 months later anyway. So the season is still accurate.

      Seriously though, I have to agree. If you want to divide up the year into 4 vague sections use quarters dammit.

  50. GNU/Linux vs. uClinux by tepples · · Score: 2, Informative

    Desktop and server Linux depends on GNU. Embedded Linux does not to nearly the same extent. I tend to use the term GNU/Linux to distinguish desktop-style Linux from the sort of Linux you see on a router appliance.

  51. APad with Android by protektor · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Orphan Electronics Apad M800 $150-$200 Street Price

    http://pricedinchina.com/buy-orphan-iped-mid-slate---m800-wifi-7-android-tablet-pc---m800-iped.aspx

    It looks like China already beat everyone including to a degree the Open Source community with a clone of the iPad. They are already selling an iPad clone in China. It looks just like the iPad in everyway, but the guts. I understand it is suppose to have an 600mhz Intel CPU inside, and 2gb of storage with USB port and I thought a memory card. It also has Wifi and web cam built in.

    Seems like this thing beats the iPad in almost every area that people complain about for the iPad. Much lower price, same size screen (7"), open and can do all the things the iPad can't or won't. Seems like a pretty good iPad killer to me, and it run Android already so there isn't really an issue of limited apps either. Runs Flash, MKV/H.264, MPEG 1&2, RM/RMBV, MP3, WMA, APE, FLAC, AAC,AC3, WAV.

    If I were going to buy a tablet computer I would certainly give this one a serious look.

    If the screen isn't big enough for you. I have seen other Orphan Electronics tablets advertised with bigger screens, but of course they cost more than this version does.

    Here is one with a 10" screen for $290 and has more storage and still uses Android.
    http://chinagrabber.com/buy-10-orphan-iped-m16-1024-x-600-android-apad-wifi-tablet-pc-m16-mid.aspx

    At $100 retail in China and $150 retail on some web sites. Seems like this is exactly the kind of table that all the Linux companies like Ubuntu should be looking to use as their hardware platform. At the price of $100-$150 it beats even most eBook readers on price, and it has wifi built in so adding more books/music/software isn't an issue, not to mention the USB port on it.

    1. Re:APad with Android by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      umm, screen size, iPad is 9.7" this is 7". screen resolution (1024x768) vs (800x400) and display quality, just look at the pics, i have never had my ipad look that bad even on it's lowest brightness. from the reflections in the photos you can see that i't's indoors, my iPad can look like the sun indoors. it looks like a Gameboy Advance sp.

      I want a quality android tablet, these all have shitty displays. You're going to be looking at that thing for the life of the device, that is how the computer talks to you, it it of the most importance. Don't cut corners android boys.
      (if you don't understand, play with an ipad and just inspect it's display, it is supergreat.)

  52. Re:Another iPad wannabe? by xtracto · · Score: 1

    Howdy cow... Steve Jobs reality distortion field is growing stronger than even!

    I guess that for the kids who have been around computers and IT just in the last 10 years, Jobs is the inventor of all electronic devices.

    OK, I'll shut up and keep laughing at how people spill the kool-aid while drinking more than they can

    --
    Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
  53. Re:Another iPad wannabe? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    Hi Steve, do you still "shit different"?

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  54. Another xPad OS by codecore · · Score: 1

    Good. Yet Another OS for the xPad/Tablet. Let's count:
    1. Win7 tablet edition (rumors of a wp7/CE edition)
    2. Android
    3. Chrome OS
    4. WebOS
    5. Ubuntu
    I'm waiting for AmigaOS and BeOS to get a port.

  55. Re:Another iPad wannabe? by irote · · Score: 1

    The touchscreen trend launched by the iPhone is a definite step backwards in user interface terms.

    A functional user interface should be unobtrusive - it should integrate seamlessly into your other activities. In the case of mobile phones, that means being able to type out a quick text in your pocket, being able to go forward or back a song without looking at the device, or changing the volume mid-call without taking a look.

    Touch-screens demand your attention if you're trying to do all of these. That might be a good way of promoting enhanced addiction to the device itself - a key aspect of Apple's success in all its products - but it takes away from usability.

    I've filed news stories on an old-style Nokia candybar keyboard - 450 words or so - just using the 10-key numeric keyboard and text-message style tapping. I'd hate to have to do that on a touch-screen. And that's before you remember that the huge, energy-consuming touch-screen would probably have left you without battery power sometime the previous day. Quite an issue when you're travelling long distances at short notice.

  56. I installed ubuntu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I installed Ubuntu OS the other day on my Ubuntu computer. I got a ubuntu boot loader and I selected ubuntu and booted ubuntu. then I got a ubuntu login screen. I logged into my ubuntu desktop. I was greeted with a nice ubuntu wallpaper. I double clicked on 'Computer' and it opened the ubuntu file manager. then I opened the ubuntu web browser and downloaded a media file. then I opened ubuntu music player and listened to the media file.
    Then I remembered I have tv tuner card. I checked on google and says ubuntu kernel has a driver for tv card. so I opened ubuntu package manager and installed ubuntu tvtime television viewer (shocking, huh? :P). It worked flawlessly without any additional configuration.
    Then I remembered I needed to prepare a powerpoint presentation for work. so I opened ubuntu office program and wrote my document. Ubuntu office program saves in .ppt (nice!)
    Then I went out for coffee. when I came back, there was a ubuntu screensaver on my ubuntu computer. so I moved the mouse, typed in my ubuntu password and I was back in my happy Ubuntu desktop. :D

    1. Re:I installed ubuntu by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Which distro was that again?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  57. RE: by helix2301 · · Score: 1

    I think its great that linux is a competitor in the market. Ubuntu has there desktop OS a laptop OS and not a tablet OS I hope they break into the mobile market.

  58. Re:Another iPad wannabe? by man1sh · · Score: 1

    They even invented copy-past. They invented Ads, they invented touchscreens.

  59. What s it with Linux developers/distributers ? by Der+PC · · Score: 1

    What is with Linux developers/distributors that the absolutely must "create their own" ?

    Nicholas Negroponte has already announced that he's going for a diet-Linux on his tablet.

    The WePad ( http://wepad.mobi/ ) is already at point of mass distribution, mixing Android and Linux in an innovative way.

    Others are already doing diet versions of Linux for tablets (lenovo springs to mind)

    Why can't they just cut the crap, get their forces together and create that ONE diet-Linux monolith GUI distro that not just debunks the "Linux always comes third" myth, but destroys the iTampon ?

    I mean... it's not that hard. Talk to each other. Use Google and see if anyone already started a project. Take off your shades! (They look dorky when sitting in front of a computer screen anyway!)

    --
    This signature is DRM protected. By the DMCA, you are not allowed to counteract or oppose to it.
  60. Re:Another iPad wannabe? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

    Are you claiming that apple invented the tablet computer?

    Dude, didn't you know that Apple invented the fucking computer?

    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  61. Original Goals by kenh · · Score: 1

    The focus will be on developing an OS with a simplified user interface that provides quick access to the most-used applications.

    I thought that was one of the main goals of Ubuntu - if not explicitly stated, the obvious conclusion for other stated goals and objectives.

    (Would anyone want to provide either a complicated interface or make it harder to access most-used applications? I bet Microsoft had the very same goals in mind when they designed/developed Win 3.1, Win95, Win2K, WinXP, Vista, and now Win 7. If Microsoft met those goals or not is up for debate, but I'm pretty sure that was their goal as well.)

    --
    Ken
  62. Are you kidding me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ubuntu netbook remix is perfect on my acer aspire one. You've never actually tried it, have you?

    1. Re:Are you kidding me? by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

      But that's a netbook, not a touchscreen device.

  63. Good ideas are better than fresh ideas by assertation · · Score: 1

    I agree with you, but would add that good ideas are better than fresh ideas. Fresh ideas just for the sake of being fresh doesn't work. That is a distinction that a number of FOSS UI makers do not appreciate.

    People who are computer users and who are not computer enthusiasts do not want to take the pain ( even a trivial amount ) to relearn how to do a task that already know how to do with an existing system.

    If a system has a dramatically different UI it had better have some highly visible, highly appreciated...unique, benefits for the user.

    Otherwise, there is no point in using it, let alone liking it for the end user.

  64. They have work to do by jmknsd · · Score: 1

    I have a touchscreen HP, and the upgrade to 10.04 completely horked the touchscreen until someone reworks the evtouch driver.

    The touchscreen has always been a pain to set up, this is really something that needs working on if they want to go against the ipad.

  65. Ubuntu for the HP TouchSmart's? by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

    Oh to have Ubuntu on my HP TouchSmart, and to be able to use my fingers.

    This post is considered inappropriate to read for anyone under the age of 50.

  66. Err.. cart before the horse. by drunkennewfiemidget · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Maybe Ubuntu can work on not sucking before they bother with shit like this.

    Ubuntu has gotten progressively less useful with every release; it seems they'd rather put more effort into revamping how it looks than making it stable.

  67. Re:Another iPad wannabe? by Aphoxema · · Score: 1

    Howdy cow... Steve Jobs reality distortion field is growing stronger than even!

    I guess that for the kids who have been around computers and IT just in the last 10 years, Jobs is the inventor of all electronic devices.

    OK, I'll shut up and keep laughing at how people spill the kool-aid while drinking more than they can

    Maybe Steve Jobs really does have some kind of reality distortion field because it really is plain as day to me. Sure, tablets have been around a pretty good while and have been sold as "the next big thing" over and over, but it isn't until Apple does it that anyone tries to do it thriftily to undercut their popularity.

    You're also terribly presumptive. I started with a 386, I hate Apple to its core (tee hee), and I can configure Debian just fine but still prefer Ubuntu for its flexibility and consistency across every computer I've installed it on.

    --
    "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
  68. Re:Another iPad wannabe? by Aphoxema · · Score: 1

    Hi Steve, do you still "shit different"?

    Yeah, the IBS is really acting up lately.

    --
    "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
  69. Why X11 may be fundamentally flawed by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    This guy explains it better than I can. I ripped the post from another board, link is at the bottom.

    To go directly to the point, I think that the "linux desktop" needs a small, fast, fully-featured graphical backend. This backend should provide basic drawing primitives, input device event handling, network transparency, but should not involve itself with higher-level graphical interface design (like buttons and menus). So far, I suspect that most of the above posters would agree with this notion. Here is where we diverge: I do not think that X11 is small, fast, or fully-featured. And I think that there are fundamental aspects of the X11 protocol which will prevent any implementation from working well.

    The first fundamental problem is that X11 is implemented using an asynchronous model. In other words, to raise a window one cannot simply call XMapWindow to map a window. One must call XMapWindow, which will transmit that command to the server, then one waits for the server to respond with a MapNotify event, and then one can proceed. When running over a network this potentially allows the client to send off multiple commands before waiting for the response to a single command, allowing improved performance. But when run on the local machine, this requires a great deal of round-trip communication that produces latency that causes many users to perceive X11 programs as "slow." This problem has been reduced somewhat through the use of shared memory, but still hinders performance. The asynchronous model was an excellent decision for the 1980s when most programs ran over the network. But in the current day, the backend is optimized for a use-case that is rarely used.

    Beyond performance issues, the asynchronous model is also the root cause of much of the flickering that occurs on the desktop. As widgets are moved around, the asynchronous model causes repaints to occur while the windows are still in flux resulting in flickering. The developers at QT have effectively already abandoned X11 (or at least a good part of the design) by moving all of the event handling into the QT library to circumvent this flickering (see http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2007/08/09/qt-invaded-by-aliens-the-end-of-all- flicker).

    A second fundamental problem with X11 is the absence of resolution independence. X11 describes all coordinates using integers that represent pixel positions. As screen sizes change and pixels become smaller (or less likely larger), then the display begins to appear pixelated. In a resolution independent scheme, all coordinates are described using floating-point values so that display is rendered correctly regardless of the screen size. Again, going with integers positions was an excellent design decision for the 1980s but is no longer an effective design. In the 1980s many of machines shipped without a math co-processor, so that floating-point operations were much much slower than integer operations and the quality of the graphical output was arguably less important. Today, virtually any modern processor has a math co-processor that can perform multiple floating-point operations per clock cycle. The difference in performance that would result from the use of integers rather than floating-point values is gone, the only thing that remains is the pixelation.

    The last main problem with X11 is the profound lack of functionality. Some of the above posters have claimed that now that X11 has compositing it has pretty much everything quartz has. To be blunt, this is very very far from the truth. Competing graphical backends (e.g., Quartz) provide much stronger support for anti-aliased drawing (not just text but lines and polygons), gradients, transforms, shadows, patterns, transparency, font selection, color spaces, and data output (to screen, PDF, or Postscript). Modern linux programs compensate for the inadequacies of the X11 protocol by performing this rendering within the toolkit. GTK use

  70. Re:Another iPad wannabe? by Urkki · · Score: 1

    oh and they just invented multitasking.

    To be fair, the "multitasking" that iPhone OS 4 offers to apps is, let's be charitable and say different from what you'd expect from a modern OS...