I agree that taking something without payment is unjust, but what exactly was taken here? I've checked out the music download scene off and on for a very long time now, and it hasn't changed my buying habits. Calling someone a theif for copying (not taking) a CD they weren't going to buy anyway is also unjust.
I like the idea of file sharing, but I also don't want to break the law, so I just listen to the radio or support Magnatune artists. I think that is more effective than this so-called civil disobedience I read on here.. I suppose I could also legally record tracks from my digital cable if I really wanted mp3s of stuff I hear on the radio, which should be considered stealing by your logic.
I don't see too many posts praising this move.. I like the GPL, and am glad they would GPL another piece of software, but I personally don't care too much about it. I'm sure many other people like myself feel the same way.
It's becoming quite common for some people like yourself to scream "LOOK A THE HYPOCRACY!" as soon as two Linux people say something that contradicts something two totally different Linux people said a month ago.
The "Linux Community" is a diverse lot. Don't be so fast to call them hypocrites.
And if you don't know why some people would denounce Microsoft for creating anything less than stellar, innovative software with their market dominance and bank account, you may want to find another site to post at..
Microsoft is not an evil company, it's a company. Period.
So what's your position on companies that break the law because it is cheaper than abiding by it? I guess you think that is ok, since all companies would do this, right?
Personally, I think we should hold companies (and the people who run them) to a higher set of standards.. I mean, they could at least honor the laws, even if they don't honor the spirit of them sometimes.
The critical distinction between this type of thing on Firefox and IE is that in Firefox, by default, you are ASKED. In IE, you are not. That is a HUGE difference.
No doubt as Firefox becomes more popular we'll see more of this crap, but if we are asked to install it then there is hardly anything to worry about. The only time I'll start to worry is if they find a way to bypass the user acknowledgement, and from what I've read, that isn't likely to happen.
Hey, why don't you pick on a piece of software that is past a 1.0 release!
Fine, I'll take my.9 release of a browser whose API changes enough to break older extensions while you enjoy the bug-ridden, ActiveX adware/spyware/trojan installing, non-popup blocking piece of shit known as Internet Explorer.. Welcome to the monopolist's world, where a simple disabling of a javascript open function takes 10 years to implement, and running Adaware and Spybot to remove shit that you didn't ask to be installed makes you feel like you still own your computer.
And besides a few businesses, who cares if Mono ever runs on a mainframe? Why is this going to have an impact on it's acceptance on the desktop, where the real money is made?
No doubt they will be able to make money off the guys running the "Big Iron" who want to run Java, but it just isn't anywhere near as lucrative as serving the other 99.9% of the computer users out there. If Java becomes the Irix of languages, I'd call it essentially dead.
The fact that it is successful now has no bearing its future success, which is why people are griping about it being Open Source.
If.Net is done right, and from the looks of it Microsoft has done it right, it will overwhelm Java for the simple reason that Microsoft has 95% of the desktop market. Certainly future Microsoft OSes will run.Net out of the box. Actually.Net will probably run out-of-the-box on Linux AND Windows in the future, thanks to the work of what is now Novell. Java won't work out of the box except on a small handful of OSes (because the community rejects its license in favor of others.) If you can't see the demise of Java in the not-so-distant future, you must have your eyes shut.
If Sun doesn't open it, it's going to go the way of so many other great products that died because there wasn't a significant revenue to keep some big company afloat. And that's the thing - if they open it now, and the community embraces it the way that some Open Source companies are wanting us to embrace the Open version of.Net, it will survive.
There are two ways for Java to become and remain a success: It can become an order of magnitude better than what Microsoft has to offer, or it can become Free/Open. I think Java's only chance for long-term survival is the latter.
And who knows what is going to happen to all the software written in java for the JVMs of today. What if Sun dies and sells their IP to SCO or something? Laughable yes, but how is this existing software going to continue to run as platforms evolve if Sun dies? Eventually, the JVMs aren't going to work on newer version of Linux, MacOS, or Windows, and that software is either going to have to be ported or it too will die. And then everyone is going to wish they had chose Python.:) Ok, maybe it isn't likely that Sun would screw everyone over so royally, but it isn't out of the question and it isn't very reassuring to people devoting time and money for writing software.*
* Someone correct me if Sun has some type of Java foundation like Trolltech had for Qt where Qt would become GPL i the company went under or was sold, or if I completely misunderstand the arrangement between JVMs and the people writing software that depend on them.
Magnatune is great. I'm due to buy another CD or two from them, though I'm still not sure which ones I want yet. (For those who don't know, buying a CD means you can download raw audio to make your own masters, and the artist gets half of the money.)
Here are a few samples from artists that I consider to be pretty good, if anyone else wants to check them out: Cargo Cult Solace
After the Fedora deal, I switched all my servers to Debian stable (with a few packages from www.backports.org.) Debian unstable/testing is just not as nicely polished as Redhat for the desktop, so until some really slick looking Gnome/KDE defaults come to Debian testing or stable, or Userlinux actually happens, I have no compelling reason to switch desktops from Fedora. I am interested however, for the simple reason that I don't want to have to worry about managing two different distros for my servers and workstations.
I suppose this matters to some companies that provide services to customers, but it doesn't matter where I work.
Ever since I have worked for this Navy facility, there has been this slow but steady transition from Sun to Linux on servers and high-end workstations, and let me tell you from personal experience, nobody here is blinking an eye at the thought of SCO. If they show some proof that Linux is infringing, I'll be more than happy to apply the patches that come out the following day from Debian and Redhat.
There will always be people/companies who attack those who are successful when they are not. Same old shit here, move along.
The man isn't impressed by anything, unless it meets his definition of free (which I respect and admire, personally.)
You should at least read something about the man so you can formulate a valid opinion of him. His thoughts aren't on the short-term, where Java currently is, but on long term freedom of software. His goals predate Java, and will most likely postdate it too.
What high pricepoint? You can buy Windows in many asian countries for $5.00.
It almost worked for you, blaming outsourcing on Open Source. Come back in 20 years when the WTO has every developing nation in the world 'respecting IP', and then you might be able to lay some blame on people who write free stuff.
Hang on a second.. If they have to be taught how to burn a CD in Windows, how is that any different than Linux?
How is that any better than, say, a custom US Air Force version of Linux that has a shortcut on the desktop to a CD burning application or script?
If you were arguing that Linux wouldn't work on the home desktop, where the users have no sysadmin to fix things, or no tech support person to direct questions to, you would be right that Linux would be too much. However, business and government have both of those resources (usually) and are not an issue. Using Linux isn't a whole lot different from Windows when a competent admin has set up the desktop to meet the needs of the intended audience.
Internet Explorer works great, and no one is charging me to use it.
Are you shitting me? Isn't Microsoft one of the richest corporations on the planet? Did they get that way by simply giving away their stuff? Everybody paid for their copy of IE..
You hate cross platform products, you hate backwards compatibility.. You're like the Anti-Tim Berners-Lee.
As much as you may dislike RealPlayer, it works on MacOS, Windows, and Unix. And as little as you may care about the non-Windows platforms being able to play video and audio from the web, it apparently is important to quite a few people, myself included.
I used to feel similarly, until I put things into perspective.
I am far more likely to die in a car accident, or to be hit by a drunk driver, than to die by the hands of a terrorist.
If our society can tolerate the tens of thousands of deaths that occur due to automobile accidents and drunk-driving accidents, why can't we tolerate a relative few terrorist-caused deaths that slip through the cracks, especially when it means maintaining our precious freedoms?
I want lives to be saved too, but they can step up the effort on thwarting terrorism without taking away our civil liberties.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm way late on this, but oh well:
It wasn't a troll, just an ding on W for not knowing how to say nuclear.
It's pronounced "New Q Ler"
I agree that taking something without payment is unjust, but what exactly was taken here? I've checked out the music download scene off and on for a very long time now, and it hasn't changed my buying habits. Calling someone a theif for copying (not taking) a CD they weren't going to buy anyway is also unjust.
I like the idea of file sharing, but I also don't want to break the law, so I just listen to the radio or support Magnatune artists. I think that is more effective than this so-called civil disobedience I read on here.. I suppose I could also legally record tracks from my digital cable if I really wanted mp3s of stuff I hear on the radio, which should be considered stealing by your logic.
It's like these people are taking the food directly from the mouth of Madonna's baby. How could they be so cruel?
I don't see too many posts praising this move.. I like the GPL, and am glad they would GPL another piece of software, but I personally don't care too much about it. I'm sure many other people like myself feel the same way.
It's becoming quite common for some people like yourself to scream "LOOK A THE HYPOCRACY!" as soon as two Linux people say something that contradicts something two totally different Linux people said a month ago.
The "Linux Community" is a diverse lot. Don't be so fast to call them hypocrites.
And if you don't know why some people would denounce Microsoft for creating anything less than stellar, innovative software with their market dominance and bank account, you may want to find another site to post at..
Microsoft is not an evil company, it's a company. Period.
So what's your position on companies that break the law because it is cheaper than abiding by it? I guess you think that is ok, since all companies would do this, right?
Personally, I think we should hold companies (and the people who run them) to a higher set of standards.. I mean, they could at least honor the laws, even if they don't honor the spirit of them sometimes.
The critical distinction between this type of thing on Firefox and IE is that in Firefox, by default, you are ASKED. In IE, you are not. That is a HUGE difference.
No doubt as Firefox becomes more popular we'll see more of this crap, but if we are asked to install it then there is hardly anything to worry about. The only time I'll start to worry is if they find a way to bypass the user acknowledgement, and from what I've read, that isn't likely to happen.
Hey, why don't you pick on a piece of software that is past a 1.0 release!
.9 release of a browser whose API changes enough to break older extensions while you enjoy the bug-ridden, ActiveX adware/spyware/trojan installing, non-popup blocking piece of shit known as Internet Explorer.. Welcome to the monopolist's world, where a simple disabling of a javascript open function takes 10 years to implement, and running Adaware and Spybot to remove shit that you didn't ask to be installed makes you feel like you still own your computer.
Fine, I'll take my
And besides a few businesses, who cares if Mono ever runs on a mainframe? Why is this going to have an impact on it's acceptance on the desktop, where the real money is made?
No doubt they will be able to make money off the guys running the "Big Iron" who want to run Java, but it just isn't anywhere near as lucrative as serving the other 99.9% of the computer users out there. If Java becomes the Irix of languages, I'd call it essentially dead.
The fact that it is successful now has no bearing its future success, which is why people are griping about it being Open Source.
.Net is done right, and from the looks of it Microsoft has done it right, it will overwhelm Java for the simple reason that Microsoft has 95% of the desktop market. Certainly future Microsoft OSes will run .Net out of the box. Actually .Net will probably run out-of-the-box on Linux AND Windows in the future, thanks to the work of what is now Novell. Java won't work out of the box except on a small handful of OSes (because the community rejects its license in favor of others.) If you can't see the demise of Java in the not-so-distant future, you must have your eyes shut.
.Net, it will survive.
:) Ok, maybe it isn't likely that Sun would screw everyone over so royally, but it isn't out of the question and it isn't very reassuring to people devoting time and money for writing software.*
If
If Sun doesn't open it, it's going to go the way of so many other great products that died because there wasn't a significant revenue to keep some big company afloat. And that's the thing - if they open it now, and the community embraces it the way that some Open Source companies are wanting us to embrace the Open version of
There are two ways for Java to become and remain a success: It can become an order of magnitude better than what Microsoft has to offer, or it can become Free/Open. I think Java's only chance for long-term survival is the latter.
And who knows what is going to happen to all the software written in java for the JVMs of today. What if Sun dies and sells their IP to SCO or something? Laughable yes, but how is this existing software going to continue to run as platforms evolve if Sun dies? Eventually, the JVMs aren't going to work on newer version of Linux, MacOS, or Windows, and that software is either going to have to be ported or it too will die. And then everyone is going to wish they had chose Python.
* Someone correct me if Sun has some type of Java foundation like Trolltech had for Qt where Qt would become GPL i the company went under or was sold, or if I completely misunderstand the arrangement between JVMs and the people writing software that depend on them.
Magnatune is great. I'm due to buy another CD or two from them, though I'm still not sure which ones I want yet. (For those who don't know, buying a CD means you can download raw audio to make your own masters, and the artist gets half of the money.)
Here are a few samples from artists that I consider to be pretty good, if anyone else wants to check them out:
Cargo Cult
Solace
I think he means free as in speech.
I run stable on my servers, and in some cases install a few packages (2.6 kernel, Samba 3) from http://www.backports.org.
After the Fedora deal, I switched all my servers to Debian stable (with a few packages from www.backports.org.) Debian unstable/testing is just not as nicely polished as Redhat for the desktop, so until some really slick looking Gnome/KDE defaults come to Debian testing or stable, or Userlinux actually happens, I have no compelling reason to switch desktops from Fedora. I am interested however, for the simple reason that I don't want to have to worry about managing two different distros for my servers and workstations.
I suppose this matters to some companies that provide services to customers, but it doesn't matter where I work.
Ever since I have worked for this Navy facility, there has been this slow but steady transition from Sun to Linux on servers and high-end workstations, and let me tell you from personal experience, nobody here is blinking an eye at the thought of SCO. If they show some proof that Linux is infringing, I'll be more than happy to apply the patches that come out the following day from Debian and Redhat.
There will always be people/companies who attack those who are successful when they are not. Same old shit here, move along.
I've switched my servers to Debian, although I think Fedora is a fine desktop.
If UserLinux ever gets some momentum, I'll be switching desktops over as well.
You don't understand what motivates Stallman.
The man isn't impressed by anything, unless it meets his definition of free (which I respect and admire, personally.)
You should at least read something about the man so you can formulate a valid opinion of him. His thoughts aren't on the short-term, where Java currently is, but on long term freedom of software. His goals predate Java, and will most likely postdate it too.
What high pricepoint? You can buy Windows in many asian countries for $5.00.
It almost worked for you, blaming outsourcing on Open Source. Come back in 20 years when the WTO has every developing nation in the world 'respecting IP', and then you might be able to lay some blame on people who write free stuff.
You were probably the guy from 7 years ago claiming that open software could never replace solutions by Sun, SGI, and Microsoft.
You wouldn't happen to be Rev Don Kool, would you?
Context is pretty nice, and I believe it free software:
http://fixedsys.com/context/features.html
Hang on a second.. If they have to be taught how to burn a CD in Windows, how is that any different than Linux?
How is that any better than, say, a custom US Air Force version of Linux that has a shortcut on the desktop to a CD burning application or script?
If you were arguing that Linux wouldn't work on the home desktop, where the users have no sysadmin to fix things, or no tech support person to direct questions to, you would be right that Linux would be too much. However, business and government have both of those resources (usually) and are not an issue. Using Linux isn't a whole lot different from Windows when a competent admin has set up the desktop to meet the needs of the intended audience.
Internet Explorer works great, and no one is charging me to use it.
Are you shitting me? Isn't Microsoft one of the richest corporations on the planet? Did they get that way by simply giving away their stuff? Everybody paid for their copy of IE..
You hate cross platform products, you hate backwards compatibility.. You're like the Anti-Tim Berners-Lee.
As much as you may dislike RealPlayer, it works on MacOS, Windows, and Unix. And as little as you may care about the non-Windows platforms being able to play video and audio from the web, it apparently is important to quite a few people, myself included.
George Bush? You're a Slashdotter!?
I used to feel similarly, until I put things into perspective.
I am far more likely to die in a car accident, or to be hit by a drunk driver, than to die by the hands of a terrorist.
If our society can tolerate the tens of thousands of deaths that occur due to automobile accidents and drunk-driving accidents, why can't we tolerate a relative few terrorist-caused deaths that slip through the cracks, especially when it means maintaining our precious freedoms?
I want lives to be saved too, but they can step up the effort on thwarting terrorism without taking away our civil liberties.