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U.S. Army Warns Microsoft To Back Off
declan writes "My CNET News colleague Ina Fried has written an interesting article today about how the U.S. Army has told Microsoft to stop sending free CD-ROMs of Office 2003 to government employees. In what's effectively a cease and desist order, the Army said: 'Your offer of free software places our employees and soldiers in jeopardy of unknowingly committing a violation of the ethics rules and regulations to which they have taken an oath to uphold.' Whoops! Perhaps this is Microsoft's latest way to fight free software at the Pentagon. Remember that just 8 months ago, the Army paid $471 million for Microsoft licenses."
Yep... I'm in the navy and this new item hit the streets last week (I considered submitting it as a story--oh well). We had guys and civilian contractors in our building getting free copies of office. My hate for ms reached a new high--talking about caught red-handed trying to plant seeds that will secure them--argh.
Separately, as a member of the military and despiser of the pitiful quality of ms products, I've always been strongly concerned about the military's use of ms products. The military, like many parts of the government, subcontract-out most tech work and implementation. The contractors, with sealed pay rates and support plans, have no problem deploying huge ms flagships at given branch or sub branch of the military (and then forwarding all the licensing bill to uncle sam). In other words, the root concern is that senior military folks that make the money decisions, need to get the job done but don't have a technical background (ie, to them, linux, microsoft, a server, source code, hacking, and TCP/IP are all one and the same). The contractors drum up offers, the military takes one, and--wham--the US gov't is now shelling out to ms in huge numbers and there's no one who looks at and says, 'is this the best way we could be doing it?'
If you've been around the government, you know what I mean about how scary the contractors are in terms of quality and knowledge when it comes to industrial back-end technologies. I'm on shore tour now, but when I was on my sub, you'd see these people doing a software install by blindly reading out of a SPAWAR procedure. I'd ask them stuff as they went along to gain knowledge and tips, but I usually got back a sheepish "I'm not sure". Grr...
Andy
G-Force music visualization
but can they stop AOL cds as well? stemming that tide is well-nigh impossible.
turn up the jukebox and tell me a lie
And you know what, there's a reason for it. Others where I work got copies as well, and they are already pushing for us to get an Exchange server. There are many features in the new "Office System" that require server support. When you try to use a feature that requires support on the server, a message pops up about how you need to contact your systems administrator to find out how to enable this great new feature.
Stop sending us your free shit.
Too bad I couldn't do that to AOL back in the day.
Now we just need the Army to go after spammers, SCO, and the like.... and back it up with tanks! lots of tanks!
we are gonna fire ..
Office XP, Visual Studio
you sell? I would like a copy of all of them. You
know my address.
Thank you,
Anonymous Coward
Microsoft: Hey, looks like you dropped a 50 dollar bill... /wink
;)
Army: Were you just trying to bribe an army official?
Microsoft: Uhh, no..that must have been mine!
lol, thanks slashdot. I needed a chuckle.
Its actually interesting to read this, I just assumed that things like these happen all the time. Its nice to see safegaurds such as this in place AND functioning.
["The department, which oversees national parks and other federal lands, concluded last month that the software constituted an unacceptable gift--one valued at more than $20 and from a party with whom the department does business or whom it regulates."]
The article goes on to mention how many govt are looking into open source
...they had absolutely no interest in AOL's high-speed technology and were threatening unilateral action.
Unless Bill Gates has secretly raised his own military, which isn't that unlikely.
With all these legit copies of Office 2003... I wonder if the licenses are transferrable?! If they are... sell them on Ebay! I for one will be purchasing one for $10... plus $15 shippping. :P
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)... oops
Pah, they are giving away all the copies they saved by giving the beta testers a naff radio!
Army: Stop sending us your products. .
Microsoft: What if we don't?
Army: We'll make you
Microsoft: You and what army?
Army: . .
Microsoft: Oh.
I want the fire back.
If I were to mail unchecked binary files to senior officers and ask them to run them without verifying the contents for trojans, worms or viruses the Department of Homeland Insecurity would likley have me shot in their Happy Fun Camp at Guantanamo.
And unlike a certain company *I* don't have a criminal conviction, a record of giving things that could hurt national security to the Chinese (Windows source code) or a past history of underhand payments to subvert the political process!
Where is the justice in that?
Beep beep.
If it something is sent to me for free, it is um, well, free!
Nobody pays list. Sometimes it is discounted, somtimes it is bundled, sometimes you get it for free.
What is the value of an intangible? I know the media isn't worth $20.
But hey, this is Slashdot, so everyone will say here. here.
[BTW I have a legitimate copy of Office that I figure cost me FAR less than $500 - it was included in my MSDN subscription... which I also did not pay anywhere near list price for. I paid FAR more for my Qt license to develop Linux software.]
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
So if I pirate it, I go to jail... fair enough... if you send it to me for free, and I don't buy exchange server from you... I will be forced to pirate exchange to get any of it to work, so I go to jail... hmm... If you send it to me, and I say I don't use it... then what?
Microsoft, you had a great marketing strategy, except you decided to assume that people want to use office at all costs... tsk, tsk...
---
Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
I remember there was a commotion about gifts being given to employees at a VA hospital near me a few years ago. Basically the result was the management said any gift worth more than ~$20 must be given to a charity. I bet a lot of schools and charities would love that software.
I was on the carrier USS Kennedy the other day I remember seeing virtually every computer terminal onboard running MS Windows in some form or another. I didn't see the nuclear portions of the ship, but you never know...
When I worked for the Navy as a civilian, we weren't supposed to swipe the MSDN CD's. Now it's all cool?
Why did I stop working for the Navy? Could save me a few bucks in the long end.
I'm still trying to figure out why people still use or pay for a word processor?! Seems silly to actually buy a suite for over 400 bucks USD. I love OpenOffice on the Windows side, and it runs on Windows 95 machines flawlessly.
http://www.geocities.com/baddsectorr
My dad used to work in the contracts office in the Air Force and you couldn't accept anything that could be considered a gift. (IIRC there may have been a monetary cap on what you could accept but it was really low; even legitimate things like Christmas baskets or company tchotskes were frowned upon, which kind of weirded out suppliers the first time they dealt with the military since it could come across as rude when an Airman tells you to take your fruit basket home with you). Violation of this was taken very seriously. As big and established as MS is -- not to mention the fact they've dealt with the gov't on a contractual level for over 20 years -- this is a pretty boneheaded move. They should have known better and whoever authorized this should get shit-canned.
I am a Network Admin Here in AK and I can tell you that one of the most poisonous aspects of .Mil networking is Civillians. The other is the decisions made by Command Sections who are only interested in one thing, Budgets.
It sucks being told that your decision base on good sound Tech principles is not what they want to hear because of the cost involved.
The free software giveaway came about because a lot of paperwork is created in time with no war. Therefor people have to take their work home to get finished to make deadlines. So leadership said take a copy home install it. The Mil makes you use it. you have to get the work done so you are entitled to a free copy.
Integrity is the hardest thing to keep.
Nope, the U.S. Army and many federal agencies have always had a policy like this. They won't even let you buy them lunch if you're a contractor etc. I think the value limit of anything they can accept is something like $10.
I guess that this is how the US goverment is saving lifes and keeping secerts secert. They aren't using software that is as open as swiss cheese.
This signature was left intentionally blank.
Wonder what would happen if we all sent OpenOffice.org CD-ROMS to not only the Army, but to other government agencies? Seems like a fantastic marketing idea to me, and I dont think (?) that employees would be breaking ethics rules, since it is free software.
bash: rtfm: command not found
Those nails are building up around your coffin. It looks more and more lately like it's about time to do a sizing...
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
So how do you think the market will react if we are spoilt with choice between Microsoft product and Linux products, all free of charge?
Most of us here would choose Linux any day not because of the price, but the freedom and security. But how would the mass consumers think of it?
With MS's cash reserve, they could very soon use such tactics, like they have a cheaper version of Windows for pirate-infested countries.
I work for Fortune 100 company and we got the same deal but have to pay shipping cost.
from the e-mail
"Welcome to the Microsoft Home Use Program. Through an arrangement between Microsoft and your employer, you are eligible to order a licensed copy of select Microsoft Office desktop programs you use at work to install and use on a home computer.
Welcome to the Microsoft Home Use Program. Through an arrangement between Microsoft and your employer, you are eligible to order a licensed copy of select Microsoft Office desktop programs you use at work to install and use on a home computer.
Please click on the link below to order Microsoft(R) products for home use.
https://hup.microsoft.com
Be sure to place your order for Home Use Program software within 30 days of receipt of this email and before your employer's arrangement with Microsoft terminates, whichever is sooner."
I'm glad to see the military taking some initiative in this 'cease and desist' kind of way. I myself hope to someday go into the Air Force, and hope that they will follow suit. In fact, many people that I know in the military, especially engineers, have switched to linux or unix long ago. My uncle worked for McDonnel Douglas before they were bought out by Boeing as a radar engineer, and he hasn't used windoze in 10 years. He now runs a successful web business without any microsoft software whatsoever. What amazed me was what he told me about others in the military. He told me that many of the contractors and engineers had switched to linux long ago, saying it was much more reliable and efficient (duh!). I was quite happy to hear this, and hope it is still the case. It just goes to show you that the military really is ahead of (most) of the rest of us even in things like OS and software. I'm hoping this could mean a possible switch towards open source software in the government, as Brazil has done. Wouldn't that be great!!!
This is the same reason why anybody remotely connected to an academic institution can get software at cut-rate prices. The hope is whatever vendor's software you learn first, you stick with.
Microsoft's trying to make sure every government employee runs Microsoft at home so that the government can't risk losing compatibility with everybody's home systems. Of course, the fact that giving something worth $500 to government employees is considered a "bribe" is something Microsoft doesn't care about, since when did laws get in the way of their operations?
I bet the Army pays about $3 for small arms fire targets. These are perfectly free and visibly shatter when shot. Rather than complain, the Army should request that they send more to make our fighting troops better shots!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Bill: apperantly we violated some rules regarding 'ethics'. You ever here of it?
Ballmer: I think there was something in a college course, but I'm not sure.
Bill: hmm, See if you can buy this ethics things, so we can get back to telling the government what to do.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I work for the USAF as civilian and DoD sent out a email about this. Microsoft knows darn well that Govt. Employees cannot accept this software as they have been a Govt Supplier for years!!!!
Umm - you forgot to include your work e-mail and program code in your post.
Some young E-3 working in military IT will try fix someone's Office installs using just 1 cd all over his/her part of the base and the military will be instantaneously liable for piracy.
This guy is way out there
Please provide the following...
Microsoft has recently been sponsoring the Imagine Cup worldwide. The winners of the first stage each receive free copies of Microsoft Visual Studio .NET and Microsoft Office XP, plus an exclusive T-shirt.
Here is the UK Web site, Canadian Web site, and US Web site
A while back when I was an IT monkey, I seem to remember Office2000 would install Outlook even if you specified not to, in the custom install. And don't get me started on trying to uninstall internet explorer...
This is why I turned to *nux and never looked back.
So MS is flooding government and defense agencies with thousands of Office CDS, in the hope that someone will pick up their spam, install it, and pay for upgrades in the next two years.
Looks like desperation is starting to take hold. They feel they need to stem the flow of Free linux to the world by replanting the seeds of subtle vendor lock-in.
Wonder if anyone will fall for it?
They are not trying to "give customers a taste of the software and allow them to learn how it might be of use to their organizations in a positive way." They are trying to flood the government AOL-style with as many discs as possible.
It's the old spammer profit rule--if one in a hundred use the disc, then you've just made money...
And once MS Office is in, it will take a long time to weed it out.
~psi42
Defenestrate Windows...
Alrighty, so what's the technical difference between a gift from the company to the US Army vs. grants and stuff from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation?
Working at a public place that got a grant from the Gates Foundation, we've got machines, software, and some sort of training budget to provide the public with access to Office 2000, a few edutainment titles, and some form of Internet access. We also provide free classes in basic computer use, "Web Surfing", E-mail, and MS Office products.
The net result -- the public gets shtuff, we sound like MS Infomercials, and they get a bit of a shock when they see the sticker price on MS Office (which they realize they have to buy separately as it doesn't come with their purchased PC)
So to reiterate -- what's the difference between an MS "gift" to the army and a grant from the B&M Gates Foundation? (besides any tax shelters/breaks, etc, that is.) Both end up as advertising for MS in one form or another.
Army should consider MS software to be a Weapon of Mass Disruction because on the damages caused by back to back virus infections.
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
Or else...
Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
The Army (us taxpayers) already paid $471 million, these are merely what we bought. Too bad all the companies who bought into Software Assureance (which see qv) didn't do as well.
How is it unethical to accept what was bought?
if a company claims the a produc is worth X on there finance sheets, they have to live with the consequences.
It's the reasonable, or claimed value of the product.
A 1000 dollars is worth a thousand dollars regardless of how much it cost you to get it.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
For quite a while Microsoft (and probably plenty of other software companies) has been donating software to schools and taking a tax write-off for the full retail cost. Not only is the first one free but it's apparently a tax benefit for MS.
Gates: "Yeeeess, my preeeecious..."
I just returned from days of meetings that involved folks from the NMCI group, NSA, NIST, DoD, NAVSECGRU , CyberCorps and lots of others. I can assure you that within this area of the Fed (cyber-warfare, crypto, security, intel, etc.) that MS is a laughing stock. In the past this hasn't mattered terribly, but you have to understand that now things are very different. NSA/NIST (partnering as NIAP) now set the standard that all other agencies from the CIA down to the Dept. of Ag MUST follow. They establish the common criteria, define new directives and standards, etc. etc. aud nausiem. While MS isn't being thrown out, they are being gelded. It is a matter of time until the attitude held by these folks permiates the Fed as a whole. Linux is being pushed not becuase it's free, but because it's more readily secured. Much talk was bantied about on lots of OSS packages. I personally gave an impromptu class after hours to some of the less technical folks on installing and using Thunderbird + Enigmail + WinPT (GPG). Perhaps Linux/OSS truly is viral. It certainly is spreading as if it were. Keep the faith my friends.
"... or we'll be forced to use military action!"
Imagine a convoy of M1A1 Abrams tanks surrounding Microsoft headquarters...
Those who laugh at you for you having a Mac.. are the people who constantly call you to fix their PC.
I bet a lot of schools and charities would love that software.
I bet the kiddies would love a free bag of herion or crack, too. But does that mean you should donate one?
Let's not get another generation hooked on Windows.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
My wife used to work for the military and they are very strict about accepting gifts. In fact, most people paid for their own meals, when they were invited out from vendors.
...just "special-price" the CDs (just those particular "sample" CDs, wink wink) at $20.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
AOL is a different story, but I'd be more than willing to receive functional and reputable (outside of /., anyway) software in the mail... Anyone who wants to send me office is more than welcome!
Karma: Bad (mostly due to all those "In Soviet Russia" jokes)
Quoting from the article:
"Government Entities: Microsoft intends that this product be used in accordance with applicable laws and regulations for the evaluation, use and benefit of your government agency only," Microsoft states in the note. "You may, at your discretion, return this product package to Microsoft at its expense."
Okay, sending back at Microsoft's expense is easy. Just send it via UPS SonicAir same-day service. Doing a quick quote, from Texas (for example) back to Redmond would cost at least $264.94. Also, be sure to send it in the evening so that nighttime charges apply, and from obscure locations so the extended mileage also figures into the cost. If you do it right, you could get it up into the thousands depending on location (overseas stations?) and time of day. If there aren't any commercial flights, you can have UPS charter a plane just for your CD. Oh, and send each CD back separately for maximum effect.
When you absolutely, positively, have to stick it to Microsoft.
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
As I pointed out when I submitted the story, Microsoft already makes copies of Office that time out after 90-days or let you register via CC during the trial period. You can get them at most Kinko's and so on, and certainly somewhere on Microsoft's website.
So if Microsoft true intention was to familiarize large customers with new features, wouldn't it make a lot more sense to send them:
a) a self-running slideshow/video showing demonstrations of the new features (a la Video Professor, autoplay and go)
b) the aformentioned 90-day trial edition so they could install and see how well it works and then turn around and requisition it if they find a reason to keep it
c) MSDN or other licensed version that has no restrictions but the EULA clearly states the copy is not legit and cannot be used for actual business (development and testing only)
Somehow I don't think that's what Microsoft is doing. What they are doing is handing out free license keys to what retails for $499+. That means whoever happend to open the colonel's mail could just slip the key in his or her pocket and take it home with them, register it on their home system and enjoy a free copy of an outragously priced package. I mean, if everyone gets a free copy for personal use, stands to reason when requisition time comes around, people will suggest Office 2003 like they have at home.
This is bribery. Just because they call it marketting doesn't make it any less unethical. Otherwise, why can't GM just hand over the keys to their new SUV so that people can become "more familiar with our new features"? A legit Microsoft license (the actual hologrammed piece of paper with the key on it) is just as tangible and valuable as any other real-world freebie.
-JoeShmoe
.
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
Except that the note on them could include a complete cost estimate pointing out that since it has retail value of under $20, it is legal and ethical to accept it!
The Bush administration has authorized a premptive strike on Redmond, WA!
The $20 / $50 rule is one of the key rules on employees accepting gifts from sources outside the government. This information paper is designed for employees of the Department of Defense (DoD).
1. General rule against gifts. DoD employees are generally prohibited from accepting gifts that are from a "prohibited source" or that are offered "because of the employee's official position." [5 CFR 2635.202(a)]
2. Definitions. The definition of "prohibited source" includes companies and organizations that do business or seek to do business with DoD. [5 CFR 2635.203(d)] A gift is offered "because of the employee's official position" if it is offered because of the status, authority or duties associated with the employee's Federal position. [5 CFR 2635.203(e)] "Market value means the retail cost the employee would incur to purchase the gift. An employee who cannot ascertain the market value of a gift may estimate its market value by reference to the retail cost of similar items of like quality." [5 CFR 2635.203(c)]
3. Exceptions. There are about 30 exceptions to the general rule against gifts. One exception, which is called the $20 / $50 rule, provides that an employee may accept gifts of up to $20 in market value per source per occasion, so long as the total market value of the gifts received (under this rule) from one source does not exceed $50 in a calendar year. [5 CFR 2635.204(a)] One may not accept cash under the $20 / $50 rule. [5 CFR 2635.204(a)]
4. Examples. Here are two examples of gifts that may be accepted under the $20 / $50 rule. First, an employee who gives a speech as part of her official duties may accept a thank you gift having a value of $20. Second, an employee may accept three $16 lunches from a DoD contractor in a calendar year.
5. Buying down to $20. If you are offered a gift that has a value over $20, you may not "buy the gift down" to $20. [5 CFR 2635.204(a)] For example, if you are offered a $21 ticket to a baseball game, you may not pay $1.00 to whomever is offering the ticket, and then accept the ticket under the $20 / $50 rule.
6. Combining items. If you are offered two separate items on the same occasion, and each item has a value under $20, and the items together have a value over $20, you may accept one of the items and decline the other. For example, if you give a speech as part of your official duties, and you are offered a $6 coffee mug and a $15 pen as thank you mementos, you may keep one or the other, but not both. [5 CFR 2635.204(a)(Example 2)]
7. Different sources on the same occasion. Under the $20 / $50 rule, you may accept gifts of up to $20 in value "per source per occasion." This means that the $20 limit applies separately to each company or organization that is offering you a gift on a particular occasion. Here is an example from the ethics regulation.
During off-duty time, an employee of the Department of Defense (DoD) attends a trade show involving companies that are DoD contractors. He is offered a $15 computer program disk at X Company's booth, a $12 appointments calendar at Y Company's booth, and a deli lunch worth $8 from Z Company. The employee may accept all three of these items because they do not exceed $20 per source, even though they total more than $20 at this single occasion. [5 CFR 2635.204(a)(Example 5)]
8. Impermissible gifts. If an employee receives a gift that cannot be accepted under the $20 / $50 rule (or any of the other gift rules), the employee must do one of the following (unless the item is accepted by the agency under specific statutory authority). If the gift is a non-perishable tangible item, the employee must either return the item to the donor or pay the market value of the item to the donor. If the gift is a perishable item and it is not practical to return the item (such as flowers or a fruit basket), the item (at the discretion of the employee's supervisor or ethics official) may be given to an appropriate charity, may be sha
I bet a school could really save some money by getting those "free as in beer" copies of Office.
But hey, why should schools save money?
So software, claiming to be from Microsoft with a free license, is arriving at Army posts.
No doubt it's intended to be installed by army personnel and used as an office suite while processing internal messages, right?
If anybody on the command staff is thinking clearly, anybody who actually INSTALLS such an abomination has a LOT more to worry about than an Ethics violation.
Just think: If you were in the Army would YOU use free-in-the-mail software to process sensitive military information?
This is no joke. Battles have been lost because the size and location of the forces were betrayed by such things as an intercepted order for toilet paper.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
That's a Helluva Good idea!(tm) Get a keygen for the latest Office. Hack up an installer to install the hacked up Office and look like an official Microsoft installer. While you're at it install a few backdoors, some ad software, a couple dozen viruses, and email the addressbook to a hotmail account. This sounds like a helluva security attack that's highly likely to succede don't ya think? Damn. Scary.
go army! (pun intended)
Unfortunately, due to the current conflicts our choice of couriers is limited, so we will have to return the CDs by loading them in pamphet-dispersion canisters and dropping them on your Redmond, WA offices.
Love,
The Army
It would be better if they took those CDs and built a wall around AOL HQ. Hopefully, it would stop the crap from getting out and infecting the rest of the world.
... as in beer, but still the $5 I spent on a Mozilla CD is much less than the $100 cap on gifts.
It's already come down from on high in Microsoft that their sales people selling to large organizations/governments should lose to linux under no circumstances. So if price is the deal breaker, they should give it away I guess...
All your Army Base are belong to us.
wbs.
Huh?
that microsoft is giving the military cyber weaponry! blackops sneak into foriegn computer systems and install microsoft offic and down their systems go!
and the cd's are lethal as hell too, those could be used as throwing discs!
Get the soldiers hooked on their products, and all the nicotine...er, *Windows* patches in the world won't be sufficient to break the addiction.
The BM Foundation doesn't make grants to the US Military. Really now, when since the days of General Washington has the US Military needed grants?
On the other hand, these free CDs are a violation of the ethics rules. It's considered bribery. "Baksheesh" for those of you in Redmond...
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
We all knew it would happen. All your base could not belong to M$ for long....
There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
most of us won't be able to afford it.
-- Lemmy
Why Bill dropped out of collage.
Classmate: What's your schedule look like this semester Bill?
Bill: Lets see. English Lit, Speech, Business Ethics...Business Ethics?!
Classmate: Oh yeah, Smith is teaching that one. It's not bad.
Bill: Not BAD?! Screw this noise, I'm outta here.
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
That doesn't square at all with my experience... former Air Force talking here.
Most pilots are bright folks, they just stumble when confronted with an area where they have no background or training (like anyone). If you're starting from scratch, Linux is just as intuitive as anything manufactured by microsoft.
Incidently, the Air Force has plenty of tech-saavy people, often in the form of reservists. I've had systems guys in deployed locations who were company-grade officers... but senior software engineers at major corporations, often using linux on-the-job. Many of them hated our reliance on MS products, and looked for ways to use more-functional things every chance they got. Good grief... our NT servers in Saudi Arabia had to be rebooted monthly or they'd simply cease to function (don't even get me started on service packs).
MS is not the way... it is a way, and that's all you can say. Pilots are more than swift enough to use linux if you gave them a little training.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
The real goal of the program isn't gifts, it's the tried-and-true microsoft crowbar they use to get into any organization. One key 'early adopter' or in this case recipient of the software starts using the system. Then everyone who works with this person is forced to upgrade as the old versions are incompatable with the new version.
Government employees are a great target for this because it forces all the non-governmental organizations that work with the government to get licensed for the software or face not being able to exchange documents.
-- Greg
Slashdot, would a spell-checker for posting be too much to ask? It's not rocket science!
I bet MS is so far in bed with the military that you could call him "Col. Gates of the CIA."
The Army is sick and tired of the relentless battle against Clippy!
Learn something new.
Yeah, I need some new coaster too.
Win a signed Stephen Carpenter ESP Guitar from the Deftones: http://def-tag.com/?r=0008781
Since Microsoft introduced software activation, it has bin harder for non technical persons to pirate windows
Could it be that Microsoft have discovered that the pirating done by home users did a good job in promoting their software as these users never would buy a full price copy anyway. But if they use it at home they would still be able to recommend it to friends and employers and help MS to help the MS-Office document file formats to being regarded as a defacto standard..
If they get MS-Office for free, Microsoft may think that these home users are less likely to use OpenOffice.org at home, only to discover that it is very compativle withe the MS-Office suite and largely offers the same value as their expensive package. And then they are less likely to show their boss, or install it at work perhpas preventing Microsft from selling other products such as Exchange and database servers.
Giving free software to employees companies and government agencies that have large Microsoft contracts is probably just the beginning.
In fact I would notbe surprised Microsoft to bundle CDs with Windows and Office with every computer magazine you buy. The sofware will be licenced for private use only.
God is REAL! Unless explicitly declared INTEGER
Microsoft might learn the hard way what happens when you piss off Rumsfeld.
You've got to jump through hoops to get grants.
A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
At least they were when I worked for a major defense contractor in the '80s. Their rule was $0.00 - absolutely no gifts whatsoever. Not even a Big Mac for lunch or a coffee mug from a vendor/subcontractor's rep or a US Government agent or member of the military (our customer).
Violations were a firing offense. My employer took ethics quite seriously, at least after some engineers and managers were caught taking bribes & gifts from vendors in the mid '80s. They were promptly fired and blackballed from the industry. Their clearances were permanently revoked so it was legal.
Microsoft should properly be stripped of all government contracts for this violation. Too bad it won't happen. Bill Gates is Bill Gates.
Microsoft's VP of Customer Service is Helen Waite. If you are having problems with their products go to Helen Waite.
the Air Force is totally nuts about the gift rule. Here's a good example.
As military physicians, we were forbidden to accept anything from a pharmaceutical company rep. That "anything" also included things like pens, food, even a simple plastic goniometer (look it up). They were so worried about the "appearance" of impropriety, that they went beyond the 20$ rule to include things like pens. I'm not talking about a golfing vacation to Thailand... I'm talking about a 5 cent Bic pen.
What an insult... what a great way to piss off a group of people the military desperately needs to retain. My question was this: If they think I'm enough of a whore that I'd sell out my patients for the price of a pen, why even trust me to take care of people? If that's all the more they trust their physicians, I wish they'd just come down to my duty section, slap me, spit on my boots, and tell me to my face. Honestly... the military does some of the dumbest things, and it's all so someone in the chain of command can get an OPR bullet.
But yes... the gift rule has snagged many a military member... what the hell was microsoft thinking?
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
"Yeah, I need some new coaster too."
Redhat comes with 7 of them.
Soldier: Sir you're coming too close to our computers
Bill Gates: Come on just try it a little
Soldier: I'm going to have to ask you to step away from the computers!
Bill Gates: Come on here's a CD lemme just install it, it'll only take a minute
Soldier: This is your last warning, if you do not leave this area you will be terminated immediately!
Bill Gates: Here lemme just *reaches for a mouse*
Soldier: FIRE!
*right about here is some gruesome video of bill gates being ripped to shreds from M4 rounds*
Wow it'd be like a real life xBill
All your base are belong to us
Now they give their software for free, but I won't take it. I'd rather wait 'till they pay me to use their product.
Microsoft should be charged with undermining our national security for this. Or maybe assisting a terrorist group. Imagine all the DoD computers running Outlook... scary!
Just get a bunch -- that's a million if you use Million Man Math!
The point was that a "Grant" and a "Gift" both seem to do no more than push the MS agenda. Should they wish to do some real good, they'd fund for hardware (and let maybe RedHat supply the software CDs).
Otherwise, both are nothing more than marketing tactics.
Yeah! Me too. If you send me free real copies, I swear I won't make any illicit copies! ;)
How ya like dat?
I was watching a television show on the history of weapons used in the American Civil War. Colt Firearms did something similar. They sent beautifully engraved and inlaid Colt revolvers to many generals and public officials. They were just gifts, but it was an obvious attempt to gain influence with decision makers in the government.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
And in the end you're locked into whoever gave you the grant. Indentured servitude is implied.
I already do this with AOL cds with my airsoft guns. You have to aim a bit wide or else you'll go through the holes like sibling posters pointed out, but seeing those explode in a silvery shower of plastic bits is always fun. They're also fun with dremels...
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
All I had to do was forward an e-mail to 20 people and Bill Gates said he would send me a copy of Microsoft Office.
Erich, you've got a great idea. I have the Gnuwin CD that I've been giving to others. iirc, it has a slightly older copy of OpenOffice on it.
I'll check the link you provided if there is an updated version of OOo so that I can start handing those out as well.
Don't wonder. Start posting your suggestion on the OpenOffice site if they have a slashdot style feedback page, or email them. I'll post it on Newsforge, others should post elsewhere.
Maybe one of the commercial distro companies will decide to pick up the effort, though they may discount the idea of providing a tool that works on Windows. If they have enough brains they'll realize that it's to their advantage to move them to OOo because they aren't all jumping on Linux anyway. The more they move to OOo, the easier the switch will be later.
Start cross-posting your idea. Hit the companies if you have time. Strike while the iron's hot.
for the American military bashing on Slashdot. Now when are the European militaries going to do this>
This guy is way out there
Well, if MS can afford to give away thousands of copies of office that supposedly cost $500 retail (and not all that much less OEM), how the hell so they reckon the cost of Office and Windows at those prices? Not only that but MS gets to deduct the whole thing from tax.
It's no wonder that MS is the biggest and richest software company in the world. They've been ripping off everyone for the past two decades.
Go USMC ooh Rah!
Funny. I have a really hard time explaining Outlook or Outlook Express to clients (especially over the phone). When I sense they're about to give up on the problem, I suggest Thunderbird.
Actually happened again, 20 minutes ago (over the phone). But this time, just for the heck of it, I also recommended Eudora -- choice is good.
When they try Thunderbird out for a day or so, they never go back. If their Outlook problem mysteriously fixes itself, within a day, they go back.
I design flight sims for the US military - our older products are on IRIX, our newer ones are Linux-based. Not an M$ system in sight - they just don't cut it for flexibility and reliability.
www.sjbaker.org
But they're so much harder to use.
"Well, it took an hour to write, I thought it would take an hour to read."
Hey Microsoft, if the Army doesn't want the CDs, I will be more than happy to take them.
Calling atheism and agnosticism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.
I'm sure this has been said a few times... but as an IT manager, I've already recieved three copies of Office2k3... one was sent to the last IT manager before me, one was sent to a name resempbling slightly mine (I never registered with them, but they call plenty to have figured my name out from other people at my company) and one for the Vice president right above me. It has to be apparent to EVERYBODY that the only way they can get lock in is to get as MANY people using thier software whose file formats are unreadable without the software. How do you do that? You get a few executives who may or may not have computer experience to use it, they send files to people who can't use them, and suddenly they say 'Well, IT, why can't they open them?' ... you say 'Well, because you have the newest version and they're using the old version/the Open version.' ... voila. Suddenly the upgrade is hurried because you can't see the one new feature that VP wants that the other copies don't do.
I'm sure people still realize that the reason nobody bought office 2k for so long was because there was backwards compatability. People didn't need to upgrade until outlook 97 became a virus trap and you had to upgrade just to get rid of it.
Now they need to start the lock-in again. I'm sure people all over the world were seeded with this software in an attempt to continue the cycle...
- Brett
How about sending applications for free SCO Licenses to the Army??
Calling atheism and agnosticism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.
I bet you they are using the CD's as shotgun targets.
----
Go canucks, habs, and sens!
violation of the ethics rules
Their job is to invade other countries, and murder people. They have ethics?
how come it is so expensive in the stores? Can they afford to give it away? If so, can they afford to lower their price in stores? Hmmmm.
Sig it.
It looks like they're joining the free software community. What with deep discounts and now free software, they're proving that their software is not incrementally worth enough to charge for. Eventually, they'll give it all away free, and won't that be nice.
Of course, someone might want to tell the shareholders.
if they are giving office away for free, I dont feel so bad for downloading it from mldonkey.
spend money here
It just depends on why they send it really and what the soldiers do with it.
You're a soldier in the army. When you get done and are ready to pursue a career or maybe even become an entrepreneur, what software are you going to be using? Microsoft Office, right? And why is that? Because Microsoft has been so lenient to allow you to use their software as much as you can for a fair price.
On the other hand though, there could be a money issue involved... as Microsoft could just be waiting for someone to mess up and make some sort of copyright infringement. Highly unlikely I know, but possible. Also, it's just another way for them to make the company a larger monopoly than it already is.
For soldiers that use other products though, more power to you! Open-Office, j00!
New SlashDot poll: The US Army vs. Microsoft
"Instant gratification takes too long." - Carrie Fisher
If I was a big wig in the Army I wouldn't want my institution associated with a sinking ship.
Use Minidisc? Join the Minidisc.org forums.
Back off? Yeah, you and what army? What did you say? Ut oh. Damn.
One thing the CNET article fails to point out is that the federal ethics rules governing gifts to federal employees are government-wide, not just for DOD, Interior or any other agency.
o therdocs/fp o_files/reference/rfsoc_02.txt
o therdocs/fp o_files/pamphlets/phgiftsfrmout_98.pdf
... and we basically could only $49.95 for nonfederal subscribers because that way the federal employees were only excepting a "gift" of that amount.
That includes the $20/$50 gift limit ($20 for a single gift, $50 total for all gifts from a single source in a given year). All of this is administered by the Office of Government Ethics, an independent agency that used to be part of the Office of Personnel Management, another independent agency.
http://www.usoge.gov
The applicable regs are here, in S 2635.201:
http://www.usoge.gov/pages/forms_pubs_
Or there's a handy cartoon pamphlet:
http://www.usoge.gov/pages/forms_pubs_
I had to learn all about this because I used to work for a publishing company that was going to launch a magazine for federal workers that we were going to give to them for free
Now I work in a small consulting shop. Microsoft has a program and gives us *everything* for free for our internal use because they want us to push it onto our clients. I'm talking Office, Server, Exchange, Project Server, whatever. Some of the big-time VARs and integrators get deals too.
He mentioned this in a newspaper interview. Doesn't have to be an Office CD at all. You get yourself on the premises at a company, ask to use the restroom, and "accidentally" drop a CD-R on the floor with a handwritten label like "STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL - SALARY DATA". The CD-R would have a Trojan installed by Autorun.
I wonder if he realizes how many businesses have locked down their desktops with Group Policy settings.
MS Office 2003 may not be selling too well, but that is no excuse to give away free copies of it to government employees to boost marketshare.
Rather it would be better to give free copies to the education market that cannot truely afford it. Our college still uses MS Office 2000, and trying to do a PowerPoint XP/2002 Slideshow on a machine with Office 2000 and a Projector loses a lot of the special effects and other things.
Also interesting to note is the media copy protection that MS Office 2003 has in it. Another reason for avoiding MS Office 2003 and sticking with an older version of MS Office or going with OpenOffice.org instead. I can see novices copy protecting their documents that they need to share with others and then someone in a different department tries to open up a shared document and it won't let them, and they need access to the info ASAP. We already see this problem partically when novices set passwords on documents and share them and don't tell anyone else what the password is.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Hey! Who is talking about a monopoly? who is talking about an empire? Redmond guys are innocents and Linux is evil... of course it is! :S
PD: Yes, this is a sarcasm!
Ha ha ha
Just saw some of the beta versions of One Note,
including the Tablet computer version of One Note
on a compaq tablet at the UCSD bookstore.
Try doing anything on it and it goes to a dialog box with "Sorry, your beta version of One Note is expired software." Now That's How to Sell (TM) !
1) buy on ebay for $800
2) Write it off as a biz expense - now you are out of pocket about $400
3) Send in the coupon for a $300 rebate. Don't declare the rebate as income.
4) Now you are out of pocket $100
5) You now have a legit license for Office, Visual Studio, and other various and sundry other things PLUS the right to use for testing, all the OS's, SQL server, etc.
Q: How much of your out-of-pocket, after taxes, $100 is Office alone worth?
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
When MS "donates" copies of its software to schools it usually claims the full retail cost against tax.
...
Is it claiming the full cost of these CDs against tax? If so, it is effectively getting the US Government (and its tax-payers) to buy these copies.. Thousands of copies at $500 a time without even placing and order ?
Great business if you can get it ! Why bother fighting off Linux in the Open Market, and spending all that money on marketing? Just send millions of copies of Office to various Fed departments and make $499.90 profit on each one
Paul
www.opencouncil.org
Open
1. Give away your product for free
2. Get users hooked on your product
3. Profit!
---Technology will liberate us if it doesn't enslave us first.
Is Microsoft wants to give away software, give software away to the people who can't afford it, like high school and college students. I would love a free copy of Office.
I am a little less skeptical that the gov't allows you to deduct the retail price of something when you donate it. Woe be to those who accept it. I would sure hate to have to pay tax [%50 fed+state] on some of the crappy prizes you might win.
How would you like to get a "$99.99" retail value camera from Reader's digest or some such, and have to declare that $2 (actual value) piece of crap on your taxes as $99.99?
Maybe you were trying for a "Funny" moderation, so I'll give you a break. :-)
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
Even Clippy can't help on that count.
He only deals in tears and frustration.
the guys with big toys that have the word "tactical" in the name...
Smooth move M$..
ya later they will call the bsa for the same people to show their license and then have to pay up.
what a joke!! LOL!!
If they were an MS shop and were asking Redhat not to send them Linux CD's you'd all be throwing a royal fit.
After the army gets out of Iraq they can enforce this cease and disist order by bombing the MS campus.
I know two front wars are dangerous, but maybe the can land a few divisions on the east coast at the same time to take out AOL and stop all of those CDs as well.
They are miring IT department with otherwise good intentions.
Seems you mixed things up. Giving office away is a good thing, but the underlying reason of tying the groupware down is malicious intent.
I'm willing to bet that the army, et al. can't accept gifts of ANY kind from ANYONE. Accepting free anything makes it seem like the army is taking bribes. That's a domain reserved for politicians.
Seriously, though, I work at a fast food restaurant. We're not supposed to give free or discounted anything to any government official (police, health inspectors, etc.) even in good faith, or in kindness, because it makes it seem like we're bribing them. The one exception is donating sandwiches to the fire department's fundraiser/awareness day thingy.
And 9 out of 10 times, an incompetent admin is more likely to be able to fix windows than linux.
That doesn't mean that Windows is easier to use or esier to fix. It doesn't even mean that Windows breaks in easily fixable ways. It is not a reflection of the quality of the underlying technologies. Incompetent admins aren't likely to have a breadth of real experience. As such, they are likely to be working with something that was easy for them to get a job doing and especially something that had easily available paper credentials. There are more incompentent Windows admins than there are incompetent Linux admins. There are also more Windows users than Linux users at the moment.
Military and classified networks are walled fortresses with complete isolation from the internet world. They do not tolerate breaches of this nature that puts classified data at risk. If even a laptop enters from the outside world, it will not leave without a complete wipe of the hard drive, memory, and any other removable media. No exceptions.
M$ Office Product Activation phones home over the Internet. That's a no-no in a classified secured area.
Someone at M$ is going to get das boot.
Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
This is a bit besides the point, but AFAIK military servants are not government employees per se.
"It looks like you're trying to launch a missile ..." ..." ..."
"It looks like you're trying to launch a missile
"It looks like you're trying to launch a missile
Or better yet... The army has all those extra wasted copies laying around, feel free to send them to my address ^^ You ALSO know where I live!
Posting with out proof reading since 2001.
In an article by the Washington Post (E-Mail Giants Join in Court to Wage Spam War) Microsoft (With 3 others) plan to rid the world of SPAM but Microsoft sends free software to people hoping to increase their sales. Is this not also a form of SPAM?
Free Firefox news reader.
So Microsoft sends freebees to Government Employees? I used to work in hospitals. The drug companies used to come by all the time. Everyone got gifts. We got playing cards, pens, calculators, toys, etc. Guess who paid? Who else? The public,of course. The same poor slobs who have to pay Microsoft. That's why people have to go to Canada to get pills.
All you ahve to do is invite someone's 6-year-old into the office and let her play around on the internet for a while to bring the whole thing down. It's true, I saw it on TV.
paintball
i'm definitely not an MS fan, and i try to use their software as little as possible. unfortunately VLC can't play all the WMF files I run across, so I have to use their player. I use AppleWorks or TextEdit for most of my home (very basic) word processing.
But I have to say there's some great new features in Mac Office 2004. Word has what looks to be a really neat note taking mode, with full audio recording capabilities as well.
Here's a link - although MS's WinTel products may be shite, the MBU does some really nice work.
Maybe this is how MS is arriving at the billions it claims it looses from pirates. They forget to write off the free copies that they tried to give to the military.
Windows is as solid as quicksand.
Some of us in the software industry called this "bate and switch" in the 1980s and 1990s.
You offer the software for free for a while then when they are good and addicted you discontinue the free version.
BBSes would archive older versions of software just in case. There'd typicly be a time bomb in the last free version.
Once you use Microsoft products your stuck in a complusry upgrade cycle. You can't use the older versions after so long.
Here have some free software that won't be free 6 months from now when they become obsolete.
But the good news is no time bomb. You could continue to use it... if your not working for the government I mean.
I don't actually exist.
Really? No differences at all? Don't tell that to my international students who try to send documents from their versions to ours! Also, don't tell that to millions of Publisher users either. The newer versions have ALWAYS broken things in older projects.
.DOC 'format'. Remember old versions of Works? What about the abortion that was Office 95? Hmmm. Don't want to discuss THAT do we?
And true XML support is only available in the 'Professional' version. Gotta keep everyone onboard you know.
Besides all of this, MS only has themselves to blame for fracturing the
Five years. Please keep in mind that it is ONLY five years. Many of my teachers have documents far older than that. As long as MS insists on keeping their proprietary format secret the compatibility will only get worse.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=army.com is what to do to learn the answer to that question, and
Apache/1.3.9 (Unix) Debian/GNU PHP/3.0.18 on Linux is the answer.
So someone was probably in the distortion field you mentioned -- though the Army could have switched between then and now, and if it was switching from OS X, going to Linux wouldn't have been hard.
one hundred twenty
is just enough characters
to write a haiku
Schools do get major discounts - the bigger the district/college, the better. MS isn't stupid; they know how important it is to get their software to young minds as soon as possible.
I had a real fight on my hands moving us to Open/StarOffice here. In a strange way, it was fortunate that each copy of MS Office was fairly expensive for us (being a small girls school).
But even MS will have a hard time competing with 'free'. OpenOffice.org was an excellent choice for our boarding students as it let us standardize our document formats school-wide without regard to international/language considerations or version issues.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
What is the approximate worth of a copy of OpenOffice.org?
Right, it's FREE!
So, couldn't a bunch of OOo cd's just be distributed to our gov't with no hint of impropriety?
That could certainly make an impression!
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
Right now, MS Word documents can be read by other word processors, including the Linux ones. The new MS Office will make any document created, opened and saved in it require the new Office to open it.It will no longer be readable by any other processor.
With the great inroads open source software is making into Microsoft's market and profit (85% of their profit comes from Windows and Office), why else do you think they would push the latest Office so much and not mention features at all?
The biggest new feature is one they don't want to talk about, incompatibility.
My desktop is being converted to Linux and other open source software, especially as Macromedia announced this week that they will be making their products fully compatible with Wine under Linux,beginning with Flash.
Bye bye Bill. The harder you squeeze, the more of us slip past your heavy hand.
I JUST posted the same idea on an earlier post. Great idea, but who would fund it? Sun?
I think it would almost have to be a non-profit organization to further distance any hint of ethics issues. In fact, the Open CD project would be a killer way to do this if a sponsor could be found:
www.theopencd.org
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
There is always Open CD:
www.theopencd.org
This has some of the most updated versions of open source software including OOo 1.1. I've also found that it's installers are far superior to that of GNUwin's. In addition, GNUwin throws in a lot of software that normal people wouldn't know what to do with. Open CD tries to only include programs that are both user accessible and useful.
Give it a try!
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
Believe it or not schools get quite a break on pricing - particularly if you are part of a large district.
On the other hand, our school went to StarOffice three years ago. Cost? $79. For the entire school. Every computer. And OpenOffice.org for the boarders. Under the new StarOffice 7 licensing terms I can even give THEM a copy if I wanted.
We were one of the first schools to move to Open/StarOffice however and not too many more have yet. Why? MS Office is 'cheap'!
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
Why pay for a word processor when there are great programs like notepad.exe and write.exe
"Software is like sex: it's better when it's free."
Go to Staples and ask for the ACADEMIC version. If you're a parent of a student, a student, a teacher, or a school administrator you can get the full Office suite for something like $150.
The thing is, you don't have to prove it! It would be illegal to purchase this without having a tie to academia, but many people buy it this way anyway. You think MS doesn't know this?!
The regular versions costing three times as much are reserved for businesses who must pay this extortion to be legal. Since 'activation' became standard, it became harder for people to pirate Office - MS offers them a way to be semi-legal now whilst still reaping a major profit.
One further note that is important here. There is no retail Academic version of XP Professional. If you attend a school that uses an NT/2000-based domain, you will need XP Pro to connect to it. So... Do the math. XP Pro is an extra $150 over home (upgrade version). Is MS really losing much in offering Office Academic? Nope.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
We just got E-Pubs and with it pages of documentation on how to burn a CD using WinXP.
Most people I know don't want pages of documentation. They want to know what they need to know to get the job done, no less, no more. If I am asked a tech question by a non-tech inclined person, I answer the question. Any time I have volunteered data I am greeted by anything from blank stare to having confused the person so much that it screwed up the answer to the question in their head. If they need to know more, they can ask me. I am quite readily available (and my work number is stuck to every single monitor in the company)
So Im not sure why its a big deal if MS is sending free CDs to the army, I imagine that they have a similar licensing arrangement as we (navy) do.
The issue is that the discs are being sent to individuals. This is seen as accepting a gift from a corporate entity, and is bad ethics for memebers of the military.
Not to mention that the US's complete lack of regulation on pharmaceutical advertising is a major factor that contributes to the high cost of drugs in America.
All that swag and all those TV commericals and magazine ads do increase sales, but generally not enough to make the advertising pay for itself. So you, the consumer and patient, get to pay for all your doctor's refridgerator magnets, all those "free" samples, and all those TV ads that try to mindfuck you into thinking that you need Paxil because you find stressful situations to be stressful and Depakote because the first day of spring makes you happy.
the first time somebdy screws up Word security setting, and The complete histoory of a document gets sent to the wrong person, MS will be scrutinize very publicly, espcially if it embarasses the white house of the JCoS.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Microsoft warns the Army to back off:
Surrender all your computers to us. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
Or else... our spyware will autodetect DoD users and subsequently refuse to start. All your computers are belong to us.
Bill Gates of Borg.
cpghost at Cordula's Web.
Oh, is d'm duh disks.... duh one's we wus use'n for shoot'n practice. I'm so sorry ms Bill.
Yes, and at the risk of being modded into oblivion, so?
So what if Microsoft sends them free copies of software? Microsoft is more than welcome to send free copies of their software to my company.
The difference being that our IT department has a clear policy about what applications can and cannot be installed on the computer network.
If the Army has an issue with Microsoft then they've actually got a problem with people installing unauthorised software.
Sort that out and Microsoft can bomb them with as many free copies as they want as it won't make any difference.
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
The Army is already running Microsft OS & apps EVERYWHERE as far as I can tell (I work for them). And I keep hearing that it's part of the licensing agreement (in USAREUR anyway) that users can install office on their home machines for free. Even if that isn't true many people think it is and do so freely.
...Yet they manage to get their product keys published on the internet: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=13633
This happens even though the Army still clings to the achaic idea that the physical CD the license and tries to keep them locked them up.
Who ever it was who said "Since it is so hard to fire a govie, the govt. is bloated with people who haven't meaningfully increased their techincal skillset since they graduated from college in the 70s." is right on the money.
For a good overview of what's going on in IT world check out:
;-)
bravegnuworld.org
Have fun
No one buys a feature. Only engineers.
Fighting Free software with free software.
(Okay, I know they are two different types of free; hence the capitalization).
You say it isn't expensive, and then proceed to give prices in the $150 range, proving that it IS expensive.
If $150 isn't expensive, you have too much money.
Well, the reason is that Office 2003 contains some very streamlined hooks into all Microsoft's new server products. Upgrading the Army to new versions of Office, even at an illicit grass-roots level, would bootstrap Microsoft's efforts to sell all the new server products. This includes Sharepoint Server, Content Management Server, Windows Server 2003 itself (of course), and Exchange Server 2003 (of course, of course). And, of course, if you use those products you'll naturally consider other new server products they're offering. Of course...
Consider this move of theirs with Office 2003 to be viral marketing at its best. Office itself still makes them a lot of money, but they know that they'll lose office desktop market share at some point if people can easily switch away from MS Office to other office products (which is getting easier all the time). So, if they make sure that there is tight integration between Office and their server products, you'll get locked in and won't (easily) be able to move off of Office, much less Windows.
But, what Microsoft forgot about gov't agencies in general, is that grass-roots marketing is a no-no. Strict hierarchies do not appreciate circumvention, especially where budget impacts may occur because of it.
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
Let's get this straight...
For years now, Microsoft has been promoting the persecution of companies for using their software illegally through the BSA. Fines of almost $100,000 have been levied on small companies that demonstrated only an 8% illegal software base (search for the Ernie Ball guitar string company story of why they moved to Linux) and all without any direct legal action in the courts.
Now Microsoft is now giving away 1,000's of copies of their software free/unsolicited to government agencies in direct violation of their established ethical standards of accepting free gifts. One has to wonder how often the Army has been surprised with a software audit to determine how many illegal copies of software they are running.
Persecute and punish the little guy; bribe and placate the big guy. Microsoft is a corporate bully.
If US Army relies on common knoledge of their stuff for administration of their servers, it may explain why they needed 77 days to defeat Milosevic.
Problem with poorly managed Win servers is that everyone believe that administration of servers is "one click here, one click there". Try to administer any server that way (including Linux), and your machine will become a security hole.
Server administration (Win, Lin or whatever) should be done by trained people.
No sig today.
A while back when I was an IT monkey, I seem to remember Office2000 would install Outlook even if you specified not to, in the custom install.
Perhaps -5 Speculative would have been a somewhat more appropriate mod. Let's clarify...the suggestion above is incorrect. You can most certainly take Outlook out of the install. You can continue to use previous versions of Outlook, if you wish, while running Word/Excel/etc. 2000.
Your humble servant, etc.
This is happening in State government also. In the State of Texas, no state employee can accept a gift over $50. Some agencies have even more strict rules. Microsoft recently send copies of Office to everyone in my agency. Our lawyer roamed the halls picking up copies and returning them.
Psst. Hey kid, cumere.
What?
Try a little of this, on me.
What is it? Crack? Horse?
No, Office 2003.
...but, if I had to declare a value for it, it would be the market price. I certainly wouldn't try to claim that it has a value of $0 simply because it was a gift.
Bill: "And what if we don't stop?" ...
ARMY: "We will use any means necessary to ensure your cooperation on this matter."
Bill: "Ha! You and what Army? Don't you know who I am?"
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123007021
Free software must be returned
by Staff Sgt. C. Todd Lopez
Air Force Print News
2/20/2004 - WASHINGTON -- Air Force people who have received a promotional copy of a popular office productivity software suite, are instructed to return it to the sender.
The Microsoft Corporation sent promotional copies of its popular "Office" software to a half million customers -- some in the Air Force. The commercial value of those software packages, more than $500 each, exceeds Joint Ethics Regulation limits for personal gifts, said John Gilligan, Air Force chief information officer.
"Our ethical regulations govern the acceptance of gifts from those who do business with us," Mr. Gilligan said. "The value of those packages is well in excess of what Air Force members can accept, in particular since we are customers of Microsoft. In the public sector we are not allowed to accept that type of gift."
Mr. Gilligan said Air Force members who received the promotional software are obligated to return it to Microsoft.
People may return the software by re-sealing the packaging, marking it "refused delivery -- return to sender" and taking it to the post office. Mr. Gilligan said if the post office refuses to take the packages, they can be turned in to local communications squadrons.
"Our installation communications squadrons will be collecting the packages and mailing them back as a group," Mr. Gilligan said.
The policies regarding acceptance of gifts are in place to protect the Air Force from undue influence by organizations it does business with. Mr. Gilligan said the principal desktop productivity suite used in the Air Force comes from Microsoft. He also said the service is in negotiations with the company for additional product licenses.
While it is unethical for employees of the public sector to accept gifts, Mr. Gilligan said the Air Force does not believe Microsoft had any ill intent.
"This was simply a marketing campaign that Microsoft undertook where they failed to understand the impact of sending free sample software to government employees," Mr. Gilligan said. "I think it was just an oversight by not realizing the ethical restrictions we are under."
In case the point was not obvious enough, the schemas are packed into an .EXE which can only be used on a MS-Windows encumbered computer. As average people are figuring out that Linux and OS X beats MS-Windows for security (among other things, immune to 99% of viruses and worms), price and ease of use these are now decreasing.
To top it off, MS-Office 2003 locks you not only into their DRM, but also into one of either MS-Passport or MS-Server 2003. That not only introduces single point of failure twice (network and authentication), but also has economic, privacy and long term preservation and access ramifications.
I think you may be confusing the schema with the OASIS project which creates an XML schema for productivity software. Although, it is called Open Office XML Format, it is free (both free as in liberty and as in cost) to any and all who wish to use it. Less headache with the OASIS.
Of the OASIS members, M$ is the only one adopting a "wait and see" aproach to the OO.o schema. Everyone else is moving forward.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
"Based on an overall response we receive from governments," Hodson said, "we may look at doing things differently the next time." Maybe next time, all ppl receiving the software will be asked to fill a survey where they "opt in" automatically to receive the software. That will put the blame squarely on the individual receiving the software and off M$.
If back-office systems administrators are being killed in a hypothetical attack, then there are bigger problems to worry about than getting email running again. Could you have chosen a little less hysterical of an example to support your point? "Servicemen will DIE if they use Linux!" sounds vaguely trollish.
===----===
Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
After all, he made it to the Whitehouse, he's filthy rich, and he wields great influence over many powerful people... all of which you're NOT!!!
You sound so much like a marketing guy it's hilarious... so confident in your ability to brainwash physicians into being your corporate puppets? Drug companies are the ones fooling themselves... I chuckle every time I think about how little their billions actually buy. Ask yourself why they pushed so long for direct-to-consumer advertising, and why it's increasing so dramatically.
Drug companies produce all kinds of little items that I use daily in my practice... but those have no bearing on what or how I prescribe. How can I be so sure? Easy... because I can tell you exactly what does influence my drug choices. I don't pick random drugs out of a hat where some subliminal advertising might tip the scales. I know why I prescribe every single drug I write. I have to know, because I have to be able to explain it whenever somebody asks (patient, private doctor, family member, administrator, attorney, etc), and believe me, they ask... frequently. Look, I don't mean to sound patronizing, but I don't think you really understand how doctors choose drugs:
Note that this list isn't exhaustive, and these are not necessarily in order:
1. Patient choice -"that drug doesn't work for me." Fair enough... everyone is genetically different... maybe they have a mutant receptor.
2. Patient allergies. I refuse to set myself up for a lawsuit, thanks.
3. Cost. My goal is compliance... otherwise, I'll end up seeing them back even sicker than before. If they can't afford it, they won't fill it, and I always start with generics.
4. Availability. No point in prescribing something that's not on formulary, or that local pharmacies don't carry. Incidently, I sit on my hospital's pharmacy committee, so I know how drugs get chosen... we always go with good&cheap whenever possible.
5. Efficacy. If, in my clinical experience, something just doesn't work (or doesn't work in my area due to local resistance patterns), I won't use it.
6. Safety. If they're at high risk for side effects, cross-reaction, or interaction with existing drugs, cautious prescribing is in order.
7. Convenience. If I can dose a medication 1x/day rather than four or five times, it greatly increases compliance... if it ensures compliance, a new/convenient/expensive medication is actually superior to a cheap/pain-in-the-ass one.
8. Peer-reviewed medical literature. Publications from the american college of my specialty, the Medical Letter, etc regarding DOC (drug of choice) for certain conditions.
9. Other patient factors (things like race, sex, pregnancy status).
There are too many clinically-important considerations that affect my prescribing... the fact that someone gave me a pen is utterly meaningless (I actually only use a specific type of pen... so I end up giving drug pens away... kids love 'em). Now free samples of drugs? I'll take those every day. Those are a great service, because I have plenty of patients who are too poor to afford even generic medications, and wouldn't get medication at all if it wasn't for samples.
The truth is that the drug companies largely waste their physician advertising dollars (which includes money to provide samples, BTW). But, they're free to spend what they want... it's their money.
The next time you try to indict an entire profession as corporate whores, make sure you really know how the system works. You're free to assume all doctors are relentlessly corrupt if you want... that's fine. For my own part, I prescribe what's in the best interests of the patient, nothing more, nothing less.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
> The ARMY can't help with the AOL cd's
With all the guns and tanks and helicopters and artillery and many many more grunts than are needed to take over AOL headquarters and turn it into a large smoking crater, why the hell not?
Yeah, I may have graduated at the bottom of my T-38 class, but at least I graduated. Scary to think that I'm the one who'll be instructing the new guys in the Tweet, hehe, but I am a good pilot, just not the cream of the crop... I thought I was a great pilot until I met some guys who outclassed me in the most humbling way, and I'm very proud to serve with them and see them go on to the 15's and 16's. Every one of my classmates was definitely tech-savvy, not necessarily computer-software-tech-savvy, but certainly science, technology and math nerds. Most had only heard of Linux, and were typical Windows users until I showed them first-hand what Linux is all about and what it can do. Pilots in general are control freaks. Every one of my classmates I exposed to Linux has fallen in love with it and has awakened to just how crap Windows really is and how much power and control Linux gives you.
That's why you can buy Mac hardware produced by any vendor you want. Well, as long as the vendor is Apple.
It's kind of like me complaining that Dell makes "closed hardware" because I can't replace dead power supplies in some models with standard ATX replacements
Actually, that's a legitimate complaint. It would be somewhat more troubling, though, if you couldn't replace that Dell with a machine from a completely unrelated vendor. For whatever their problems, x86 is really about the only open platform right now (ie. one where all the components are available from more than one vendor).
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
what the hell is in ms office that the previous version didn't have that's of huge value?
The ability to open office files from all the other suckers that bought a copy of it? It may sound like a trollish answer, but really the only reason I know people to upgrade office in most situations is because their old version suddenly can't open files made by their co-workers, clients, etc.
Probably a good reason to spread the word about the joys of OO, though DRM'ed documents may eventually kill MS-Office compatability.
In all the Microsoft bashing, we might want to realize that this could be a bad thing. Especially if it's more broadly applied. It could be applied against ANY "for review" software provided for free. For example, any of us who attends trade shows will get review software. If this is applied here, we could be forbidden from taking this software. Or downloading "for review" software from "Oracle Technical Network", Sun, Java (remember it's offered on CD by subscription for $), or even Open Source Software that's offered Commercially like RedHat Linux. For us developers, it could make it very hard for us to evaluate new software. At least without having to spend large amounts of money (often our own) to purchase the software.
with almost everything you said, with the exception of the "free" samples... those samples are the only way some of my patients can get medications. Even if it's a sample of something we don't use much, we typically donate it to a missionary group that goes to central america a couple of times a year.
... doctors largely ignore it.
I could care less what type of magnets, pens, post-it notes, or neckties (yes, they have drug neckties) a drug rep gives me... I won't prescribe their drug unless there is a good clinical reason.
Much of the advertising is to let physicians know what new drugs are out there... not necessarily to get you to prescribe it (though that's often part of the pitch... "it's new and better for reason X"). If it's a field as crowded as PPIs for instance (proton pump inhibitors, like prilosec), they'd better have some damned compelling data to get me to prescribe it over a cheaper alternative like an H2 blocker (and no, I don't take company-sponsored studies at face value).
I know it seems like a waste, and some of it is... but you really have little to fear from those drug company billions spent on advertising
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
Back when I worked in the five-sided building of legend, I got chided for brining back a gymbag of gimmes from a trade show.
There was another time when an extremely large company had a special trade show where the company actually paid to put up all the attendees in a hotel - except those of us with the misfortune to be civil servants. We got to stay at Motel 6 down the block.
Clear, Dark Skies
...and the folks in IT support are mad as hell.
My employer is a large organisation with literally tens of thousands of systems to support in locations around the globe. Great effort is spent on maintaining a largely Microsoft-based infrastructure--keeping the countless worms and viruses at bay, keeping our information secure, making sure the AS/400s can talk to everything else and making sure all our applications functions properly. Standardisation is MANDATORY to allow our IT people to do their already admirable job.
Besides the important fact that Microsoft's offer probably violates OUR corporate ethics policy, it also circumvents our IT management policies. These free copies of the latest office (which wouldn't be approved software for a couple of years with our processes) are a potential support nightmare--the possibilities of incompatible file formats, new security concerns and pressure to support the server-dependent features are intolerable.
Therefore unfortunately for Microsoft, its free offer of the new "office system" is not likely to gain traction with large corporate customers (at least those that are sensibly manged or conservative in nature). Besides the post-Enron focus on more effective enforcement of ethical guidelines blocking such "gifts", the IT department will not only not support "unauthorised/unevaluated" software, upon its discovery the user will be instructed to REMOVE it immidiately on threat of suspension of network access.
This offer will allow MS to infiltrate some organisations of course (probably those large enough to afford licensing costs but small enough that an upper-management "PHB"-type easily distracted by shiney new toys can steeer corporate IT policy). However, MS wants to grab a piece of the REAL "big iron" enterprise--large corporations and public institutions with thousans of seats. This is where Linux has had the most success as well. This "gift" is a boneheaded strategy in that market and will do NOTHING to improve an already dimming view of Microsoft in that space.
An Office 2000/XP document running in Office 97 is not backwards compatability. That would be an Office 97 document running in Office 2000/XP. Which I'm fairly sure works fine.
you insensitive clod!
I'm in the Eng department too -- the ENGlish department.
Seriously though, what's so bad about SFU Engineering?
Actually, we just tried this the other day before our Office 03 deployment. We created a Word document with some basic text formatting and a table, and opened it on a Win98 machine with Office 07. It worked fine. All formatting and the table retained. Go figure.
M$ products are used because it is easier to sit a guy down who has used Windows at home for 3 months (length of USAF network admin school) and learn Windows NT/2000/2003. Sitting a guy who thinks they are elite because they are script kiddies and know ot burn a CD at a Linux machine to be trained as an administrator is difficult at best. Linux requires some knowledge to be an administrator. Windows has nice GUI buttons that tell you how to do everything. Face it, Microsoft products are easier to train people on in a short period of time. Yes, there are bright people out there, but the military needs training programs that work for *everybody*, not juct the technical-saavy.
Apparently there is a feature that causes your co-workers to go berzerk and pour gallons of water over you and your phenomenal report compiled with a tremendous amount of data while you are standing next to plugged in office equipment.
really, to get the message out, MS should just mass snail mail free CDs or DVDs to everyone like AOL does. siince they would be free, the Armys complaints would be without merit.
then they can let people try and see if the product is that good or if the old version people have or the OpenOffice suite LINUX software will do just as well.
i have always felt MS could make a much better product and differentiate themselves by having the Office stuff solve real world problems...
such as i want to send and receive EDI/XML things like invoices and payments from inside my QuickenBooks.
i do not want to continually buy another version of what i already have, security holes and intentional mistakes and all.
MS is ending those CDs to NASA too. It violates our ethics code to accept free gifts from vendors worth more than ~$20 (this loophole lets us accept pens and mousepads). We've been warned to report any CDs that arrive in the mail from microsoft to our ethics office.
Funny thing is that the center buys licences for office to cover all of the employees, but now that microsoft has violated the ethics rule thier existing contracts now have to be reviewed! Those CDs were a truely idiotic idea.
Yes, but this didn't stop people from buying systems from Sun or Sparc in the past, or "big iron" from companies like IBM.
Only difference is, in this case, you're talking about machines that inter-operate well with the competition's offerings (Windows networking), and which have individual prices well below the above-mentioned computer products.
I agree that with only Apple building a computer than runs OS X, you might not have the bargaining "leverage" you'd get with a PC clone purchase. But Apple is in the business of selling computers. They're not likely to jack up prices considerably over what they charge today, per system. If people find them a good value at the current retail price, then surely, you can do at least a little better than that buying mass quantities of them.
If they were to go out of business (worst case scenario of the "sole supplier" issue), do you really think OS X would simply dry up and die? It might, but I'd bet against that. Even with 5% market share or so, Apple has many millions of users (many fanatically devoted to the platform). Do you think they'll all just shrug their shoulders, dump their Macs, and go back to Intel/Windows systems, if Apple folds? I forsee others starting production of Mac clones A.S.A.P. if Apple goes under.
Why couldn't they have sent it to me _before_ I downloaded it?
You wasted 4 minutes of my time. I want my 4 minutes back.
Aww, I'd probably just waste them anyway...
This message brought to you by Jack Schitt's Previously Shat Shit
that imcompatibility problem is old.
you see my mom works on a central bank, and a cople a weeks ago she asked me to se if i could convert a file into excel, when i opened it the format was like:
RichTextFormat(ComaSeparatedValues)
weird...
Buy, hey. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." No matter what I point out to you, I can't make you see the obvious. You have to choose for yourself. Keep your blinders on if that makes you happier. It's not my problem
Well said... very well said indeed, and absolutely applicable to you.
I've offered you an insider's perspective based on my lifetime professional experience and expertise as a prescriber... you, however, have elected to weight your few months programming software in a doctor's office more heavily. Do you realize you've built an ironclad, erroneous opinion based on little more than suspicion, superficial knowledge, condescension, and a cup full of drug-company pens on your computer desk?
My young man, I wish you the best, but you're barking up the wrong tree.
Believe what you will.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.