You may be comfortable with using software whose source cannot be examined by you or by anyone else but the developer, but that is your choice. By taking this choice from users you are restricting their freedom.
And if that is something those users cared about they would choose not to use that software, which is exactly what we have seen in the mobile space. They may be far from a majority but there certainly are people who choose Android for that reason and do utilise that freedom with things like cyanogenmod, and then of course you have the vast majority of people who don't care.
Do closed source people share code with BSD people?
Yes, there's a little company in Cupertino called Apple who regularly contribute back to projects like webkit, apache and hundreds of others that they also include in their closed software and devices.
i haven't heard any of the BSD guys saying bad things about the GPL on this thread, quite the opposite as its the GPL guys using "doom scenarios" as a scare tactic
I agree, I see that a lot on here especially in vein of 'permissive licenses are bad because corporations can take your software and close it', which is just complete FUD.
Until you find your own piece of software closed so you can't use it.
That is simply FUD, if i release software under a permissive license somebody can release a closed source version of it, they cannot close my own software.
Because all the mobile crap they are bolting on is causing changes in the driver model?
But it isn't, why would it? There's nothing inherently incompatible between the windows driver model and mobile hardware.
If what you are saying is true then I wouldn't be having to hunt down Win 7 drivers for all these "designed for Windows 8" only systems but I am because Win 7 just doesn't like those drivers anymore than Win 8 really likes Vista drivers. Oh sure they'll install but you can watch the system stability start dropping from the moment you start using them.
There is no reason to suggest that would be the case, it doesn't make any sense, sounds a lot more like you're susceptible to a placebo effect.
Lots of stuff lost support the last time Microsoft made a major change to the driver model, which was when Vista came out. That's one of the reasons people were so down on Vista; if you tried to install it on an existing computer there was a high probability that some of your hardware wouldn't work or would work badly. The Windows 7 launch went more smoothly because by then, most of the installed base that was likely to want to run it had hardware that worked.
Yeah that's exactly my point, these sorts of changes aren't every release, in fact they are few and far between.
If the rumors of Windows Blue are true even MSFT will be getting in on the act, with a new version of Windows being put out every year. If this happens you'll see $1500 laptops treated like $50 tablets because "Your laptop only has drivers for Windows 10 and we are now on Windows 12, go buy a new one".
How so? This would only maybe be the case if they change the driver model at every release, which they haven't done and is why even Vista drivers work on Windows 8. But even then one of my systems with a pre-vista graphics card is still supported in Windows 7.
You can't use google? Here, here, here, here, and there are many, many others capable of running XBMC and have been around for a long time, many of them even come with the "bonus" you mentioned of a dedicated remote. The ability to do what you are after has long been available.
I guess it is Microsoft after all:) Seriously stop passing the blame.
I had no idea iOS, Playstation, Steam, Nintendo, Ubisoft, EA, OSX, Mac, iTunes video (and quite frankly the list is virtually endless) were all Microsoft products, they all have DRM so I guess everything is microsoft and therefore we can blame them for everything!
Passing what buck? To whom? We see always-on DRM on PCs because it's the publishers, not the hardware makers, the console makers are only doing this to appease the content publishers. We see DRM on desktop Linux, OSX, iOS, Android, Playstation and Nintendo platforms as well so 'blame microsoft' is pretty ignorant.
it might cause the big 3 console makers to reconsider drm and vendor lockdown.
That's driven by the publishers, and you can bet the ones that do drm already will go with some sort of lockdown, drm or internet-connected system for their ouya games to.
We always hear about the stifling of the industry because game developers are going after the lowest common denominator in the current crop of consoles rather than exploiting hardware advancements, Ouya could well do the same in the Android game space. It's not all about graphics but for a non-portable gaming device you want it to be fairly capable.
You aren't thinking this through. Under our system, the money you and I have are the governments debts. If those debts are erased, our money is erased. If we are to have more money in the future, the government has to "borrow" more. But this "borrowing" is not like one of us taking out a loan, it just constitutes a new issue of paper money.
So you're saying it is a good thing - or at least not a bad thing - that the US debt is skyrocketing?
Furthermore, a government which issues and borrows in its own currency, as the US does, can never fail to pay its bills. It is the sole issuer of the currency, and it can never "run out."
Of course it can always print more but that isn't a solution, it just devalues the currency.
And that doesn't make any difference, which is why the US economy is in the shit, why it's credit rating was downgraded and why there was such desperation to avoid the fiscal cliff, the US govt is so indebted it can barely pay its bills.
Look up a few reviews about the 920 and you'll see that thickness is on all of their negative lists.
Of course it would be, why would you want it to be thicker? The only reason is if it provides some benefit, which is why people don't mind a few extra mm in thickness from a case because it affords protection.
With a case on the iphone it's not only the chassis, with a case on it would go the back of the case, then the back of the phone, then the chassis, then the front glass, then the front of the case; compared to just the back of the phone, then the chassis, then the front glass.
What? The chassis is one piece (sides and back) and then you have the front glass, that's all there is. That aluminium is extremely thin, you could replace it with a rugged chassis instead but given that the rugged version would save about 1/2 a millimeter (because you wouldn't have the aluminium chassis) you might as well just allow users to put on a rugged case (of their choice) on the standard phone if they want it, moreover if the case gets damaged it's easy to replace, if the chassis gets damaged it's not as easy to replace and people will just end up putting a case over the top of it anyway.
I'm not concerned at all about a few mm of thickness, hell i'm still using my old nexus s which is thicker than all the phones and tablets mentioned, I'm just saying the case option is going to end up thicker.
Yeah i don't think anybody really cares about a couple mm of thickness.
Are you just trolling me now? Firstly the ipad3 is almost as far away from a tough phone as you can get (I'm talking nokia, sony, motorola. The nokia 920 was run over by a car and you could hardly tell).
I didn't say the ipad3 was a tough phone, you said 'they' would complain that a more ruggedized phone was thicker and heavier but the ipad3 was thicker and heavier than its predecessor and nobody cared then and it wasn't even ruggedized.
Secondly if you start with something weak (even if it is thin) and try and wrap it in stuff to make it strong, it almost always has to be thicker than something that was strong to begin with (unless you got some kind of super material or tardis technology), because the strong one is missing all the extra weak things.
The extra weak thing in this case is the aluminium chassis, which is extremely thin, and given that nobody cared when the ipad3 was thicker than the ipad2 and that's without any extra strengthening i doubt anybody putting a ruggedized case on their iphone is going to care about a half millimeter of chassis thickness. Why are you so concerned about that extra 1/2 mm of thickness?
Them is the public voice, it's obviously not all the public because a few people love their tough phones, but if you have a look at the comments about these phones from the broader community you will see what i mean.
Can't say i saw a lot of complaints about the ipad3 being heavier and thicker than the ipad2, if anything it would be a minority.
If you put a case over it, it's either going to be weaker than the tough phones or a lot thicker and heavier; it's much easier to strengthen the phone by having a strong chassis and not easily breakable materials from the start, rather than trying to add that function in later via a shell. But every man to their own.
Why would it be? The thickness of say the iphone5 chassis is miniscule, so putting a ruggedized case over that is barely going to be thicker than if that ruggedized case was the chassis.
I'm wondering why everyone is rushing to upgrade phones as fast as possible. The same situation seems to apply. Angry birds star wars will run on a iphone 3GS, and I suspect it would run on earlier iphones as well were it not for artificial incompatibility.
Maybe people like to do things beyond Angry Birds on their phones. Larger and higher resolution screens, faster network capabilities, faster processing (you see it significantly in web page rendering), faster graphics that enable games like infinity blade which weren't possible on older hardware...add those elements to the financial incentive to upgrade and why wouldn't you?
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You may be comfortable with using software whose source cannot be examined by you or by anyone else but the developer, but that is your choice. By taking this choice from users you are restricting their freedom.
And if that is something those users cared about they would choose not to use that software, which is exactly what we have seen in the mobile space. They may be far from a majority but there certainly are people who choose Android for that reason and do utilise that freedom with things like cyanogenmod, and then of course you have the vast majority of people who don't care.
Do closed source people share code with BSD people?
Yes, there's a little company in Cupertino called Apple who regularly contribute back to projects like webkit, apache and hundreds of others that they also include in their closed software and devices.
i haven't heard any of the BSD guys saying bad things about the GPL on this thread, quite the opposite as its the GPL guys using "doom scenarios" as a scare tactic
I agree, I see that a lot on here especially in vein of 'permissive licenses are bad because corporations can take your software and close it', which is just complete FUD.
Until you find your own piece of software closed so you can't use it.
That is simply FUD, if i release software under a permissive license somebody can release a closed source version of it, they cannot close my own software.
Because all the mobile crap they are bolting on is causing changes in the driver model?
But it isn't, why would it? There's nothing inherently incompatible between the windows driver model and mobile hardware.
If what you are saying is true then I wouldn't be having to hunt down Win 7 drivers for all these "designed for Windows 8" only systems but I am because Win 7 just doesn't like those drivers anymore than Win 8 really likes Vista drivers. Oh sure they'll install but you can watch the system stability start dropping from the moment you start using them.
There is no reason to suggest that would be the case, it doesn't make any sense, sounds a lot more like you're susceptible to a placebo effect.
Lots of stuff lost support the last time Microsoft made a major change to the driver model, which was when Vista came out. That's one of the reasons people were so down on Vista; if you tried to install it on an existing computer there was a high probability that some of your hardware wouldn't work or would work badly. The Windows 7 launch went more smoothly because by then, most of the installed base that was likely to want to run it had hardware that worked.
Yeah that's exactly my point, these sorts of changes aren't every release, in fact they are few and far between.
If the rumors of Windows Blue are true even MSFT will be getting in on the act, with a new version of Windows being put out every year. If this happens you'll see $1500 laptops treated like $50 tablets because "Your laptop only has drivers for Windows 10 and we are now on Windows 12, go buy a new one".
How so? This would only maybe be the case if they change the driver model at every release, which they haven't done and is why even Vista drivers work on Windows 8. But even then one of my systems with a pre-vista graphics card is still supported in Windows 7.
When they can offer uptime comparable to what I already have, I might consider using them for important things. Not until.
What do you classify as 'comparable'?
Dude I've got a Nexus 7 and the thing can barely scroll web pages smoothly...I certainly wouldn't be using that thing as my primary computer.
You can't use google?
Here, here, here, here, and there are many, many others capable of running XBMC and have been around for a long time, many of them even come with the "bonus" you mentioned of a dedicated remote. The ability to do what you are after has long been available.
I want a little Android box that can hide behind my TV and run XBMC.
We've had those for ages, you can even hook a ps3 controller up to them if you really want to.
I think that is going a bit far Microsoft should receive blame for insisting on draconian DRM on its [not your] tablet
I didn't realize Microsoft owned my iPad or my Playstation, why do you believe they do?
I guess it is Microsoft after all :) Seriously stop passing the blame.
I had no idea iOS, Playstation, Steam, Nintendo, Ubisoft, EA, OSX, Mac, iTunes video (and quite frankly the list is virtually endless) were all Microsoft products, they all have DRM so I guess everything is microsoft and therefore we can blame them for everything!
...no that is just passing the buck.
Passing what buck? To whom? We see always-on DRM on PCs because it's the publishers, not the hardware makers, the console makers are only doing this to appease the content publishers. We see DRM on desktop Linux, OSX, iOS, Android, Playstation and Nintendo platforms as well so 'blame microsoft' is pretty ignorant.
it might cause the big 3 console makers to reconsider drm and vendor lockdown.
That's driven by the publishers, and you can bet the ones that do drm already will go with some sort of lockdown, drm or internet-connected system for their ouya games to.
As the early Nintendo days can attest.
We always hear about the stifling of the industry because game developers are going after the lowest common denominator in the current crop of consoles rather than exploiting hardware advancements, Ouya could well do the same in the Android game space. It's not all about graphics but for a non-portable gaming device you want it to be fairly capable.
You aren't thinking this through. Under our system, the money you and I have are the governments debts. If those debts are erased, our money is erased. If we are to have more money in the future, the government has to "borrow" more. But this "borrowing" is not like one of us taking out a loan, it just constitutes a new issue of paper money.
So you're saying it is a good thing - or at least not a bad thing - that the US debt is skyrocketing?
Furthermore, a government which issues and borrows in its own currency, as the US does, can never fail to pay its bills. It is the sole issuer of the currency, and it can never "run out."
Of course it can always print more but that isn't a solution, it just devalues the currency.
And that doesn't make any difference, which is why the US economy is in the shit, why it's credit rating was downgraded and why there was such desperation to avoid the fiscal cliff, the US govt is so indebted it can barely pay its bills.
Look up a few reviews about the 920 and you'll see that thickness is on all of their negative lists.
Of course it would be, why would you want it to be thicker? The only reason is if it provides some benefit, which is why people don't mind a few extra mm in thickness from a case because it affords protection.
With a case on the iphone it's not only the chassis, with a case on it would go the back of the case, then the back of the phone, then the chassis, then the front glass, then the front of the case; compared to just the back of the phone, then the chassis, then the front glass.
What? The chassis is one piece (sides and back) and then you have the front glass, that's all there is. That aluminium is extremely thin, you could replace it with a rugged chassis instead but given that the rugged version would save about 1/2 a millimeter (because you wouldn't have the aluminium chassis) you might as well just allow users to put on a rugged case (of their choice) on the standard phone if they want it, moreover if the case gets damaged it's easy to replace, if the chassis gets damaged it's not as easy to replace and people will just end up putting a case over the top of it anyway.
I'm not concerned at all about a few mm of thickness, hell i'm still using my old nexus s which is thicker than all the phones and tablets mentioned, I'm just saying the case option is going to end up thicker.
Yeah i don't think anybody really cares about a couple mm of thickness.
Are you just trolling me now? Firstly the ipad3 is almost as far away from a tough phone as you can get (I'm talking nokia, sony, motorola. The nokia 920 was run over by a car and you could hardly tell).
I didn't say the ipad3 was a tough phone, you said 'they' would complain that a more ruggedized phone was thicker and heavier but the ipad3 was thicker and heavier than its predecessor and nobody cared then and it wasn't even ruggedized.
Secondly if you start with something weak (even if it is thin) and try and wrap it in stuff to make it strong, it almost always has to be thicker than something that was strong to begin with (unless you got some kind of super material or tardis technology), because the strong one is missing all the extra weak things.
The extra weak thing in this case is the aluminium chassis, which is extremely thin, and given that nobody cared when the ipad3 was thicker than the ipad2 and that's without any extra strengthening i doubt anybody putting a ruggedized case on their iphone is going to care about a half millimeter of chassis thickness. Why are you so concerned about that extra 1/2 mm of thickness?
Them is the public voice, it's obviously not all the public because a few people love their tough phones, but if you have a look at the comments about these phones from the broader community you will see what i mean.
Can't say i saw a lot of complaints about the ipad3 being heavier and thicker than the ipad2, if anything it would be a minority.
If you put a case over it, it's either going to be weaker than the tough phones or a lot thicker and heavier; it's much easier to strengthen the phone by having a strong chassis and not easily breakable materials from the start, rather than trying to add that function in later via a shell. But every man to their own.
Why would it be? The thickness of say the iphone5 chassis is miniscule, so putting a ruggedized case over that is barely going to be thicker than if that ruggedized case was the chassis.
No, it doesn't matter who that money is owed to.
Who's 'them'? And anyway the key element to durability is the chassis, so put it in a case if you need extra durability.
So redemption of that debt can't result in real resources being removed to other countries.
Which, in this case, doesn't make any difference.
I'm wondering why everyone is rushing to upgrade phones as fast as possible. The same situation seems to apply. Angry birds star wars will run on a iphone 3GS, and I suspect it would run on earlier iphones as well were it not for artificial incompatibility.
Maybe people like to do things beyond Angry Birds on their phones. Larger and higher resolution screens, faster network capabilities, faster processing (you see it significantly in web page rendering), faster graphics that enable games like infinity blade which weren't possible on older hardware...add those elements to the financial incentive to upgrade and why wouldn't you?