I tested it earlier today and I think it looks great. The boot time is insanely fast, the metro UI is better than I thought and you can still easily change to the normal Windows shell.
I found that too, the interface will take a bit of getting used to if you wanted to use metro with a mouse and keyboard but i found just jumping to the desktop view for desktop apps was fast and fluid. I'd like to try it on touch hardware.
I like what Apple did with OSX Lion - Grab a magic trackpad and you have multi-touch trackpad gestures that are quite immersive while not suffering the gorilla arm fatigue issue (or fingerprints as other commenters have noted).
I think so too, the 2-finger scrolling feels very natural.
If by "limitation of GDI at the time" you mean, "performance regression with Windows Vista and no other version of Windows", then I'd agree. Bear in mind, this problem is fixed in Windows 7. It's true that Windows 7 requires more CPU in some circumstances but you're not seriously considering that that's a trade that the Vista team made deliberately and thought was good, are you?
No i'm suggesting that this decision was made over adding the hardware acceleration elements to GDI at the time given the state of graphics cards and drivers.
Making basic operations such as opening a window consume massively more memory
Massively? It's just a framebuffer, even in the case where it's fullscreen *and* on a large display it's still only a couple of MB.
than previously is a serious performance regression and exactly the kind of thing people refer to as 'bloat'.
Serious performance regression? Really? Maybe if you have a very low end system more suited to the versions that deliberately have Aero turned off.
No, you're confusing SuperFetch (a good thing) with running a bunch of services that are rarely needed (a bad thing, especially during startup).
No, just because i said 'cache' doesn't mean superfetch. Having those services in memory is obviously advantageous if you have the memory to do so, just like any form of caching. And I already said doing so was probably a bit optimistic but quite clearly *not* a case of 'poor programming' but of questionable design.
* Every time you open a window with Aero enabled it takes a copy of all the pixels and keeps them on the graphics card (this is the good part) but it *also* takes a copy and keeps it in system memory. This means that Vista uses more memory the more Windows you open (no other version of Windows, including Windows 7 does this).
The reason for that was a limitation of GDI at the time, it was really the only workaround, it used more RAM but it meant less CPU usage if you had aero turned on. I wouldn't really call it 'bloat', it was a necessary use of system resources, which - if you had low system specs - you avoided by just turning it off.
* Vista added lots and lots of features that are only used occasionally. It mostly implements these as 'services' that load on startup and remain in (virtual) memory permanently. Users typically want to load/run applications with that IO bandwidth/memory, so it's a very poor tradeoff. No other Windos version runs so many edge-case services on startup (especially Windows 7, which starts/stops them *as needed*).
This is true, it's using your system memory as a cache, they did get a little overzealous on their use of system memory for this purpose, not poor programming just a questionable design choice since if you had a decent amount of ram this was beneficial, if you had too little ram then obviously it's going to impact performance hence the reason they pushed ReadyBoost.
What Microsoft is going to announce is that they're retiring Silverlight and that.NET is going to be.NOT.
So what you're saying is you actually think that HTML5/JS is a replacement for.Net, well it's pretty clear you have no understanding of either technology.
and likely have alot of software not work with it.
Based on what? Given the desktop view and the fact that they don't appear to be deprecating APIs i would say there is every reason to believe they won't break compatibility.
I have, but i haven't used it. In fact most of the time i use the shortcut keys or context menus (which is also what most people do according that blog post MS did on the subject) so i rarely interact with ribbon anyway but when i have used it i haven't had any particular difficulties, what specific issues have you had with it?
The 'obsolescence' you refer to doesn't appear particularly rapid, Windows XP is over a decade old and is still supported. Vista didn't get a warm reception for obvious reasons but I'm not sure why you believe XP or 7 to be 'trash OSes'.
I don't see how's this one a step forward in the "job creation" direction (not says that is not, just saying that I need some explanations. Somebody care to explain?).
I'll jump on the 'i don't get it' bandwagon too.
Then I'll *patent* jumping on the 'i don't get it' bandwagon.
I don't see how's this one a step forward in the "job creation" direction (not says that is not, just saying that I need some explanations. Somebody care to explain?).
I have traveled to many seemingly "worse" places on earth (Russia, China, Cambodia and other south east asian countries, Africa) and NOWHERE I have experienced stuff like that. USA needs to stop playing the security theater.
That's because in more security-competent nations they don't employ complete imbeciles as airport security to 'touch here, feel there and put them in the xray', they employ smart people, people trained to ask the right questions and correctly interpret the answers to determine whether a passenger is a risk.
Makes you wonder if the list included any or all of the current Dirt 3 owners. Could they be banned for using a key that was later posted on the innernet?
I'd say it would be pretty easy to determine who registered their key before and after the leak.
Slashdot Mirror
Joke aside I spun the preveiw up in a VM and it wouldn't install. But that might be me messing up virtualbox...
You have to set the vm default setting to 'Windows 7', that could be why it's not installing.
I tested it earlier today and I think it looks great. The boot time is insanely fast, the metro UI is better than I thought and you can still easily change to the normal Windows shell.
I found that too, the interface will take a bit of getting used to if you wanted to use metro with a mouse and keyboard but i found just jumping to the desktop view for desktop apps was fast and fluid. I'd like to try it on touch hardware.
On a side note why is parent modded troll?
Having the 'Metro' view and the 'Desktop' view is the way they are accommodating for small and large screens.
seriously, I promise you there's not a single product in Microsoft's entire range that doesn't somehow hark back to someone else's product.
And this is different from other tech companies how?
I like what Apple did with OSX Lion - Grab a magic trackpad and you have multi-touch trackpad gestures that are quite immersive while not suffering the gorilla arm fatigue issue (or fingerprints as other commenters have noted).
I think so too, the 2-finger scrolling feels very natural.
Because MS is insisting that the same interface is suitable for any screen. Which is precisely what I'm bitching about.
What's unsuitable about it? Most of the things that you now run in Windows on your desktop would be run in the context of the desktop app anyway.
If by "limitation of GDI at the time" you mean, "performance regression with Windows Vista and no other version of Windows", then I'd agree. Bear in mind, this problem is fixed in Windows 7. It's true that Windows 7 requires more CPU in some circumstances but you're not seriously considering that that's a trade that the Vista team made deliberately and thought was good, are you?
No i'm suggesting that this decision was made over adding the hardware acceleration elements to GDI at the time given the state of graphics cards and drivers.
Making basic operations such as opening a window consume massively more memory
Massively? It's just a framebuffer, even in the case where it's fullscreen *and* on a large display it's still only a couple of MB.
than previously is a serious performance regression and exactly the kind of thing people refer to as 'bloat'.
Serious performance regression? Really? Maybe if you have a very low end system more suited to the versions that deliberately have Aero turned off.
No, you're confusing SuperFetch (a good thing) with running a bunch of services that are rarely needed (a bad thing, especially during startup).
No, just because i said 'cache' doesn't mean superfetch. Having those services in memory is obviously advantageous if you have the memory to do so, just like any form of caching. And I already said doing so was probably a bit optimistic but quite clearly *not* a case of 'poor programming' but of questionable design.
I'm just glad they've left the keyboard shortcuts in place, since otherwise I'd have a hard time saving anything in Office.
File->Save has been standard for a very long time, what's so hard about it?
* Every time you open a window with Aero enabled it takes a copy of all the pixels and keeps them on the graphics card (this is the good part) but it *also* takes a copy and keeps it in system memory. This means that Vista uses more memory the more Windows you open (no other version of Windows, including Windows 7 does this).
The reason for that was a limitation of GDI at the time, it was really the only workaround, it used more RAM but it meant less CPU usage if you had aero turned on. I wouldn't really call it 'bloat', it was a necessary use of system resources, which - if you had low system specs - you avoided by just turning it off.
* Vista added lots and lots of features that are only used occasionally. It mostly implements these as 'services' that load on startup and remain in (virtual) memory permanently. Users typically want to load/run applications with that IO bandwidth/memory, so it's a very poor tradeoff. No other Windos version runs so many edge-case services on startup (especially Windows 7, which starts/stops them *as needed*).
This is true, it's using your system memory as a cache, they did get a little overzealous on their use of system memory for this purpose, not poor programming just a questionable design choice since if you had a decent amount of ram this was beneficial, if you had too little ram then obviously it's going to impact performance hence the reason they pushed ReadyBoost.
What Microsoft is going to announce is that they're retiring Silverlight and that .NET is going to be .NOT.
So what you're saying is you actually think that HTML5/JS is a replacement for .Net, well it's pretty clear you have no understanding of either technology.
Yes I can select text, hover and and wait for the floating toolbar to appear.
why not just select it and right click?
and likely have alot of software not work with it.
Based on what? Given the desktop view and the fact that they don't appear to be deprecating APIs i would say there is every reason to believe they won't break compatibility.
I recently spent several hours training some office 2003 users to do fairly basic stuff in office 2010.
Like what?
It was bloated
Bloated by what?
Even if Windows 8 runs on ARM processors, none of the apps will, so it doesn't seem like much of an advantage.
.Net apps will since they run on the CLR and the underlying architecture doesn't matter.
I have, but i haven't used it. In fact most of the time i use the shortcut keys or context menus (which is also what most people do according that blog post MS did on the subject) so i rarely interact with ribbon anyway but when i have used it i haven't had any particular difficulties, what specific issues have you had with it?
I think plenty of us have suffered enough from the ribbon in MS Office.
So Windows 8 is trash because of the ribbon in office?
XP and 7 are the good ones. Vista and 8 are the trash OSes (an app store, the ribbon disease spread over the whole OS and a tablet UI? Trash.)
But you barely know anything about Windows 8 much less having used it to be able to form an opinion of it.
The 'obsolescence' you refer to doesn't appear particularly rapid, Windows XP is over a decade old and is still supported. Vista didn't get a warm reception for obvious reasons but I'm not sure why you believe XP or 7 to be 'trash OSes'.
This sounds like the best complaint against flash ever.
If that's your argument you can just as easily substitute 'flash' with 'HTML5'.
we need better passwords for regular people:
http://xkcd.com/936/
http://preshing.com/20110811/xkcd-password-generator
But that's not going to help, that method is easily defeated by brute forcing from the most rudimentary dictionary.
I don't see how's this one a step forward in the "job creation" direction (not says that is not, just saying that I need some explanations. Somebody care to explain?).
I'll jump on the 'i don't get it' bandwagon too.
Then I'll *patent* jumping on the 'i don't get it' bandwagon.
Shit!
I don't see how's this one a step forward in the "job creation" direction (not says that is not, just saying that I need some explanations. Somebody care to explain?).
I'll jump on the 'i don't get it' bandwagon too.
I have traveled to many seemingly "worse" places on earth (Russia, China, Cambodia and other south east asian countries, Africa) and NOWHERE I have experienced stuff like that. USA needs to stop playing the security theater.
That's because in more security-competent nations they don't employ complete imbeciles as airport security to 'touch here, feel there and put them in the xray', they employ smart people, people trained to ask the right questions and correctly interpret the answers to determine whether a passenger is a risk.
Makes you wonder if the list included any or all of the current Dirt 3 owners. Could they be banned for using a key that was later posted on the innernet?
I'd say it would be pretty easy to determine who registered their key before and after the leak.