Microsoft Reveals More Windows 8 Details

I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by nman64 · 2011-09-13 05:55 · Score: 5, Funny

...as if millions of PC users suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 05:59 · Score: 0, Flamebait

they could always, y'know, choose something else. wah that might mean reading a man page, cry cry wipe the tears away already. if they really want to, they will.
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by jellomizer · 2011-09-13 06:18 · Score: 1, Redundant

Its Windows with out windows...
I see this as the rise of Linux on the Desktop, and the fact that Microsoft has decided the Desktop is no longer relevant.
After looking at this, it could be a serious competition to Apple iOS and Android. As they can make off the shelf Tablets and you have all your windows software ready to run on it. It could be a rebirth of Microsoft. Or it could backfire, Being that it is sacrificing its desktop share, for the tablet, where Android and iOS may have a sufficient market share to keep growing. And developers will make multi-touch apps for the Androids and iOS's and not bother with Microsoft anymore. But there are a lot of developers who already know how to make windows apps so who knows...
I need some popcorn.

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Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by fnj · 2011-09-13 06:23 · Score: 2, Informative

Actually Gnome has ALSO decided the desktop is no longer relevant. Fortunately KDE and Xfce have not yet taken leave of their senses.
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by Dog-Cow · 2011-09-13 06:29 · Score: 3, Insightful

MS did not decide that the desktop is no longer relevant. Apple did. MS, is as usual, following Apple's lead. (Witness Mission Control in Lion.)
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by ByOhTek · 2011-09-13 06:33 · Score: 2

Actually, if you've seen the previous informational releases, you can still run the standard windows UI fairly easily. It just isn't necessary.
Honestly, I like this. I'll stick with the classic UI, because I like the functionality, but I know a lot of people who would much rather have the newer, simpler UI.

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Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by not+already+in+use · 2011-09-13 06:42 · Score: 2, Informative

I see this as the rise of Linux on the Desktop
This again? Ha!

the fact that Microsoft has decided the Desktop is no longer relevant.
I suggest people actually watch the keynote before running off at the mouth with uninformed comments. You can switch between the new "metro" interface and the standard desktop interface. Metro is an alternative to the desktop interface, it doesn't replace it. One is geared toward tablet like devices, the other toward desktop, but you have the choice to use either interface on either form factor. You can switch between the two seamlessly, and it appears to work surprisingly well.

I now look forward to comments accusing me of astroturfing.

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Similes are like metaphors
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by slack_justyb · 2011-09-13 06:48 · Score: 1

Okay I know this may stoke a few flames, I'll take the heat sorry everyone. However, I think it should be said.

I see this as the rise of Linux on the Desktop
Unless GNOME and their wackiness continues to remove more of the traditional desktop metaphor from the computer. I have to give props where due, GNOME 3 could be a gem or useless, but its too early in the game to really know.

Unity isn't much better than GNOME 3. It is hard to "put things into other things." Look this is the most basic metaphor of modern computers. People want things to go into other things. Either as a way to organize, to get rid of, or to add to something. Neither GNOME 3 or Unity do this on the desktop. You don't have to go all out, not everything needs to go into everything else, that's why the folder metaphor was created.

Touchscreen and super-hyper-iPad-rip-off does not have to equal given up on traditional methods for getting work done on a computer, tablet, iThingy, or what not. I think we've gone off the deep end simply because now we have the technology to a cheap enough point, that permits touch based interfaces.

KDE at least hasn't dropped the desktop metaphor but they've added a whole slew of additional ideas on top of that. All of those ideas are paid for in the blood of your memory/hard drive/video card. Most of those ideas aren't presented clearly to the user and the user typically has no idea they exist. Most of the KDE end-users I know, use the little orange tear drop to add more useless widgets to their desktop. That's the only thing they know it to do!

If Linux, BSD, Solaris, whoever want to make big on the desktop, yes now is the time when everyone else is becoming an Apple clone. However, it's the DE that makes or breaks it for an end user. If anyone has a chance it's KDE (maybe), XFCE (likely), IceWM (highly likely), or LXDE (good contender). GNOME and Unity are just too unpolished, too not ready for the masses to take this opportunity.
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by 0123456 · 2011-09-13 06:52 · Score: 5, Interesting

Metro is an alternative to the desktop interface, it doesn't replace it.
When the OS boots up into a crappy phone interface which only gives you the option to switch to the desktop interface, and when the desktop start menu apparently switches you back to the crappy phone interface, that's a pretty damn good sign that Microsoft are abandoning the desktop.
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by GameboyRMH · 2011-09-13 06:53 · Score: 4, Insightful

If Ubuntu can finish its LSD trip in time for the Windows 8 release and go back to being a solid desktop distro, this could be the best thing for desktop Linux since Vista.

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"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by oh_my_080980980 · 2011-09-13 07:12 · Score: 1

"...off the shelf Tablets and you have all your windows software ready to run..."

You and Microsoft don't understand the touch pad market and it looks like you never will. People are not looking for a portable PC in touch pad form. They want a touch pad, which is not a laptop or PC. They want something that just works and has apps to do specific things. This has never been Microsoft's forte

But keep thinking this is relevant and that Microsoft can capture the mobile market. Nobody cares.
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by node+3 · 2011-09-13 07:17 · Score: 2

I know a lot of people who would much rather have the newer, simpler UI.
Exactly, but it's called "iPad".
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by Truekaiser · 2011-09-13 07:47 · Score: 1

nope. you cannot if you look through the toms hardware hands on all you get is the task bar and better view of the wallpaper. pressing the windows key or the start button on the task bar relaunches the metro ui. also you have on the right hand of the screen a docked metro ui panel. so no you can not turn it off the normal windows desktop as far as Microsoft is concerned is dead after windows 7.
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by Truekaiser · 2011-09-13 07:52 · Score: 3, Informative

sorry it'a anadtech not toms hardware...
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4771/microsoft-build-windows-8-pre-beta-preview/1
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by Eponymous+Coward · 2011-09-13 07:54 · Score: 2

Have you seen the early reviews for the Windows 8 tablets? The fact that there is a fan and exhaust port blows my mind. They need to be launching with tablet hardware significantly better than the iPad. The iPad specs for weight, durability, and battery life should be the minimum for what they are willing to launch with.
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by jenningsthecat · 2011-09-13 07:59 · Score: 1

If anyone has a chance it's KDE (maybe), XFCE (likely), IceWM (highly likely), or LXDE (good contender). GNOME and Unity are just too unpolished, too not ready for the masses to take this opportunity.
I agree with what you've said, except for two points. The last time I used LXDE it seemed to have a LOT of Gnome dependencies, so I wonder if it can even survive the advent of Gnome 3. And IceWM? Speaking as an immigrant from Windows to Debian, and as a GUI suck, I say with some confidence that IceWM has no chance. I won't use IceWM, and I'm at least capable of messing with config files and using a terminal - I just really don't like it. The average Windows users has no experience of such things and isn't about to take the time to learn them. IceWM is too minimalist and requires too much CLI-fu for the majority of Windows/Mac users.

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Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by Zoxed · 2011-09-13 08:08 · Score: 1

> Microsoft has decided the Desktop is no longer relevant.
I never liked(/got?) the Desktop metaphor: I run everything I can at Full Screen, and Alt-Tab between my apps, whether on Windows XP or FVWM2 on Linux.
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by JRowe47 · 2011-09-13 08:08 · Score: 3, Interesting

When they're demoing the mobile interface, but then reveal that you can switch to a real desktop mode, they've gone a step farther than any other mobile OS has so far. I can't tell you how sick I am of Android not having easy task management or windowing. Assuming they maintain their API (which they will) and release an appropriate toolchain (which they will, with free tools too) then recompiling windows programs to target mobile devices will now be possible. Whereas in iOS or Android, almost everything has to be built from scratch, or from Java, or shoehorned in using kludgy hacks or proprietary toolchains. With more than 80% of all computer users everywhere familiar with Windows, having the interface available on devices will give M$ a huge advantage. They're not abandoning the desktop. It's reaffirming the desktop's place as a fundamentally sound method of interfacing with a flat screen. GUI comes down to ease of use, and the desktop paradigm minimizes the number of steps required to switch between tasks and views, or utilizing multiple app views at the same time. Windows Phone 7 was a holdover while they were fixing the codebase for win8 to deploy on all targets. Too bad Android had to be a hackish copy of iOS, instead of being Linux on a phone, with dual phone/desktop interface. They'd have beat M$ to the finish line, but now we're seeing the beginning of a new era of Windows dominance.
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 08:29 · Score: 0

And it sounded nearly exactly like the "Gnome 3 / Unity" incident.
P.S.: CAPTCHA: "cadaver"... how appropriate. ^^
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by Skarecrow77 · 2011-09-13 08:32 · Score: 1

my physical desktop currently contains two monitors, a keyboard, two mice, a laptop in a docking bay, a laptop sitting on it's own, a desk phone, a fan, my smartphone, a cup of water, a picture of my wife, a can of canned air, a box of tissues, some ibuprofin, a few packages of peanut butter crackers, a sharpie, a bunch of pens, a ton of flash drives, my android tablet, a pile of various documentation books and CD/DVDs, the office's hot spare computer, and various other bits of computers I'm working on at any given moment.
Why should my computer desktop have any less clutter?
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 09:09 · Score: 0

If you like the Metro interface, does it make you a metrosexual?
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by Scoth · 2011-09-13 09:33 · Score: 1

This fan thing kind of amused me, I very seriously tried to use a tablet PC for notes in college and work in the early 2000s, and mostly succeeded. The thing that killed it for me was somewhat short battery life, and a fan too noisy for classroom use. If I kept the power management at minimum (which dropped the processor speed down to about 400mhz from 1ghz) sometimes I could keep the fan from starting up, but once it did it was very distracting in a quiet classroom. Sad to see they haven't improved.
I'd love to see something like an ipad with a stylus for writing and something as good as OneNote for note taking/organizing.
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 09:50 · Score: 0

They had to one-up GNOME 3 somehow
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 09:59 · Score: 1

It is hard to "put things into other things."
That's what she said!
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by im_thatoneguy · 2011-09-13 10:03 · Score: 2

1991: Haha, Microsoft is moving to a GUI to dumb down their OS. Unix and its command line is going to destroy Windows!
2011: Haha, Microsoft is offering a touch GUI to dumb down their OS. Linux and its windows are going to destroy Windows!
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by slapout · 2011-09-13 10:06 · Score: 1

How long before they remove the option to use the old interface?

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Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by travbrad · 2011-09-13 10:12 · Score: 1

So are youe saying this will be the year of the Linux desktop? ;)
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by couchslug · 2011-09-13 10:23 · Score: 1

"If Ubuntu can finish its LSD trip in time for the Windows 8 release and go back to being a solid desktop distro"
That really ought to be modded "+5 Funny". The Ubuntoid designers are at least as in love with tablets and at least as bored with "usability over fashion" as MSFT. "Solid" is boring.
It's just further vindication of the Debian Way. Distros come, distros go, and Debian thrives on in the background. Ubuntu will not solve its problems because management don't define them as problems.
Mandrake used to be popular too. They did great things for Linux adoption. What Mandrake was to Red Hat, Ubuntu is to Debian.
Neither Red Hat or Debian particularly NEED such distros, which rise and fall because their teams and management fuck up.

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Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by Weaselmancer · 2011-09-13 10:25 · Score: 1

As soon as you write an application that absolutely requires it.

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Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by Deliveranc3 · 2011-09-13 11:01 · Score: 1

Pretty much, default install kept IE on top for years. Default no keyboard will be an issue for a lot of computer noobs. They'll learn to use a computer like a touch screen phone, and expect the same complexity.

:P Got your comment.
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 11:34 · Score: 0

"...something fantastic has happened"; Microsoft are putting the nails in their own/Phone© coffin.
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by drinkypoo · 2011-09-13 11:47 · Score: 1

When the OS boots up into a crappy phone interface which only gives you the option to switch to the desktop interface, and when the desktop start menu apparently switches you back to the crappy phone interface, that's a pretty damn good sign that Microsoft are abandoning the desktop.
That is the default behavior in Windows XP or 7, but you can still switch it all the way back to requiring the three finger salute before you can log in, and never showing you the graphic user chooser. Until you have Windows 8 in your hot little hands and have somehow confirmed that it won't be the same, this is FUD.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 11:51 · Score: 0

I agree more thank completely.......stupid marketing people.
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 12:14 · Score: 0

Some of us need to do more than one thing at a time.
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by Sadsfae · 2011-09-13 12:26 · Score: 1

> I never liked(/got?) the Desktop metaphor: I run everything I can at Full Screen, and Alt-Tab between my apps, whether on Windows XP or FVWM2 on Linux.
That seems to be the way GNOME3 forces workflow, folks I know that prefer to work this way are fans of it and everyone else is not.
Personally, I prefer XFCE + Compiz + Emerald theme manager on Fedora - I find it's simplistic enough to stay out of my way but provides the expose-like window management features for multi-tasking lots of different things. To each his/her own I suppose, choice is a good thing.

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Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 15:13 · Score: 0

Frankly, who cares about Windows 7,8,..
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by bonch · 2011-09-14 04:02 · Score: 1

How is this +5 Funny? What does it even mean? Is Slashdot really so shallow-minded that all you have to do is repeat a very tired Star Wars line and vaguely tie it to the topic of conversation to get modded up?
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-14 05:54 · Score: 0

...as if millions of PC users suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.
yes, there was a great disturbance in the force, Windows 8 looks quite cool, well....not quite like linux, oh hell, cant play cool games on linux
Re:I felt a great disturbance in the Force... by ByOhTek · 2011-09-16 00:19 · Score: 1

but if they want it without the handcuffs and butt-plug, then they can use Window/Metro

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Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).

I for one look forward to windows 9 by Skarecrow77 · 2011-09-13 05:57 · Score: 4, Funny

which should be the next good version, and if MS keeps to their historic release schedule, we should see sometime in 2014 to 2015. Not that long to wait really, since I'm sure Windows 7, which I find to be excellent, will tide me over while I wait.

Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by Flyerman · 2011-09-13 06:04 · Score: 1, Troll

Please, both with this version and 9, wait until it's actually out.
They're both equally likely to be terrible.
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by Arlet · 2011-09-13 06:08 · Score: 1

The problem is when your computer breaks during this interval, and the only new ones for sale come with Windows 8 pre-installed.
That happened to me with Vista.
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 06:09 · Score: 0

By recent history shouldn't you expect windows 9 (renamed windows 8 with some quirks smoothed out, that were there probably there on purpose in the first place) in late 2013?
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by BitZtream · 2011-09-13 06:10 · Score: 1

Even after Windows 7 went on sale it was possible to get a new PC with WindowsXP, if you couldn't figure out how, slashdot is not meant for you.

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Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by Skarecrow77 · 2011-09-13 06:11 · Score: 1

You don't have OS install discs for your OS of choice squirreled away somewhere? I thought every slashdotter did...
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by Skarecrow77 · 2011-09-13 06:15 · Score: 1

It's even easier than that (assuming you're talking about installing the OS yourself).
I used to work at a software dev company that didn't officially support windows7 or any 64-bit version of windows really (They eventually managed to patch up their crappy software to work with win7 at least, although they still don't support 64-bit OSes last I checked). Because of this, they still recommended XP to everybody who called in asking what to purchase. Our standard response was "Call up dell, ask them to put XP on your new computer. they don't advertise it, but they'll do it". When I left that company, Dell was still doing it. I assume they still do.
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by Reverand+Dave · 2011-09-13 06:16 · Score: 1

That's why you build your own and keep your OS disks.

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I got here through a series of tubes
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by hedwards · 2011-09-13 06:31 · Score: 1

They don't, MS won't sell them the licenses to do it. Now, if you're referring to more recent versions of Windows, I'm not sure I understand why one would insist upon having Vista installed in preference to 7.
But presumably they'll continue the practice as long as they can obtain the licenses to do it.
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by Arlet · 2011-09-13 06:32 · Score: 1

The computer I bought was a laptop. I tried to install an older version of Windows on it, but that version didn't support the laptop hardware, and the manufacturer only supplied Vista drivers.
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by ByOhTek · 2011-09-13 06:35 · Score: 1

Actually, 8 should be good and 9 should suck
95 ok, 98 good, ME suck, 2000 good, XP ok, Vista suck, 7 ok...

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Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by Arlet · 2011-09-13 06:40 · Score: 1

I wanted a decent/cheap laptop, and they all came with Vista. Laptops with XP were hard to find at that time, especially with all the other specifications that I would have liked, and for a price I was willing to pay. I tried dowgrading to XP, but there were no drivers for some of the hardware.
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by Noughmad · 2011-09-13 06:41 · Score: 3, Insightful

That's why you build your own and keep your OS disks.
Fortunately, the guys I get my OS from keep regular backups on a public server, so I can re-download them anytime.
If your OS vendor doesn't do that, they are most likely using an external service for the same purpose. I can't remember the service's exact name, but their site has a ship with black sails on the front page.

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Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by Arlet · 2011-09-13 06:47 · Score: 1

I always build my own desktop, but it runs Linux anyway. Laptops I always buy at the local store when they have a decent one for a special sale price.
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by Merk42 · 2011-09-13 06:52 · Score: 1

Yeah man, that OS that isn't due out for 4 years and isn't even pre-alpha? Totally terrible.
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by GameboyRMH · 2011-09-13 07:02 · Score: 1

The only time I ever bought a computer with an OS already on it, I wiped the OS it came with and installed from scratch anyway.
And that laptop came with a recovery CD.

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"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by thegreatbob · 2011-09-13 07:04 · Score: 1

The trend seems to start at Windows 95... 3.11 for Workgroups is okay if you need something that will run on an 80386SX @ 12MHz. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/126746 seems to indicate that 3.1 will run on an 80286 never seen that done, but it just seems like it would be intensely frustrating...

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There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by metalgamer84 · 2011-09-13 07:06 · Score: 1

Where does NT fit into your equation, seeing as you included 2000 which was meant for business-class, not home users as all the others you listed?
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by narcc · 2011-09-13 07:54 · Score: 1

Looking at your list:
Good: 95, 98, XP, 7
Bad: ME, Vista
This doesn't seem to support the 'skip every other version' idea that you're suggesting.
We could also add 3.1 to the good list, leaving more than twice as many good versions than bad!
We could even put ME on the good list, as it didn't suck for most users. The lack of useful command line tools (SFC, etc.) is what made it suck for techs -- otherwise, it was just a mediocre 98se upgrade. It was more stable than 98, and it had better USB support. It wasn't as bad as people think.
Vista? Yeah, it sucked. Though once I added an extra gb of ram and the installed the latest service pack, my wife's vista laptop went from being a near-useless pile-of-garbage, ignored for her netbook, to her main computer.
On Windows 8, we won't really know if it's good or bad until we can use it. The point, of course, is that there isn't a need to skip every other version. That pattern just doesn't seem to exist.

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Required reading for internet skeptics
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by Enderandrew · 2011-09-13 07:55 · Score: 1

All the major OEMs were offering XP downgrades. You bought a Vista computer with a Vista license, but they'd send you a disc to legally downgrade to XP.

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Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by Samalie · 2011-09-13 07:55 · Score: 1

And this is the fault of someone other than you because??

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Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by jonadab · 2011-09-13 08:04 · Score: 1

> I'm not sure I understand why one would insist upon having Vista installed in preference to 7.

One reason would be if for testing or support purposes you keep computers around with each major OS version, and the Vista one just died. If you have to support every major release that's less than fifteen years old, for instance, you can't NOT have a Vista system around. You wouldn't be able to do your job. For that matter, it is easy to imagine actually *needing* to maintain a WinMe install for this reason.

(Although, as a rule, people who maintain multiple OS releases for such purposes usually install all the software themselves, so they probably wouldn't need the OEM to do that. Also, in most cases they would probably run everything on the same hardware using VMs.)

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Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by jonadab · 2011-09-13 08:15 · Score: 1

Heh. Sometimes. I do have install discs squirreled away for OSes that I haven't used in aeons. I'm pretty sure I still have at least one OS on a pair of 360K floppies. Currently, I'm pretty sure I do have an install disc for the OS version I'm actually using at the moment (because I had to install it on a new computer a couple of months ago), but that is not always the case. I don't think I ever had one for etch, for instance, because all my etch installs were upgraded sarge installs.

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Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by Arlet · 2011-09-13 08:16 · Score: 1

It wouldn't have been a problem if Microsoft hadn't released Vista when it was so crappy, and convinced nearly all the vendors to discontinue XP in favor of it.
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by omnichad · 2011-09-13 08:23 · Score: 1

RAM was definitely too expensive when Windows Vista came out. Most of the people that hated Vista most ended up with a machine with 1GB of RAM. Performance was crap without SP1 and a bare, bare minimum of 2GB of RAM. Being a Mac user at the time, I didn't have the problem. But if I were a Windows user, I probably would have skipped Vista.
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 08:40 · Score: 2

That's why you build your own and keep your OS disks.
Fortunately, the guys I get my OS from keep regular backups on a public server, so I can re-download them anytime.
If your OS vendor doesn't do that, they are most likely using an external service for the same purpose. I can't remember the service's exact name, but their site has a ship with black sails on the front page.
Ah, you mean the place with the pre-compromised by rootkit OS option. Saves time.
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 09:54 · Score: 0

Windows L8 would be an appropriate name. Perhaps MS should buy WebOS and call the next version Windows Cloud 9...
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by renegadesx · 2011-09-13 10:57 · Score: 1

I always heard Vista was bad but that bad?

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Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by drinkypoo · 2011-09-13 11:54 · Score: 1

When Vista came out, it was that bad. These days, it's pretty much Windows 7 less one or two minor features (since being heavily service packed.) It does still seem to use more RAM at login.

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"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by rev0lt · 2011-09-13 14:26 · Score: 1

The list is somewhat wrong. You should include NT4 Workstation (from 95-98 times), and XP 64 - a different desktop operating system, based on Windows 2003, and it rocked. And Windows 98 was absolute crap, 98 SE2 was somewhat tolerable, assuming you weren't using the network stack. By comparison, NT4 Workstation was rock-solid, but with smaller driver support and the need for huge amounts of ram.
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by Sc4Freak · 2011-09-13 14:42 · Score: 1

Or you could, you know, just download the Windows ISOs from Microsoft.
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by bryan1945 · 2011-09-13 15:13 · Score: 1

Windows versions are like 'Star Trek' movies- odd numbers bad, even numbers good (well, you need to convert to MS's conventions, of course).

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Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by bryan1945 · 2011-09-13 15:14 · Score: 1

You missed 'Bob.' Heh.

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Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by Denis+Lemire · 2011-09-13 16:00 · Score: 1

Care to elaborate on that? I'd be thrilled if MS offered ISO downloads. Requiring a subscription like Technet doesn't count. I shouldn't have to pay money to download software that I already have a license for. Doubly so when the system came with software but no recovery disks.
The problem is made worse when said systems are completely unusable without a wipe and reinstall with your imaginary media in order to eliminate all the crapware.
If MS has any faith in their 'activation' systems they should make ISOs available. If they don't trust their copy protection methods enough to do so, they shouldn't have bothered...
Wow this turned into a rant, but I legitimately had to wonder if you knew something I didn't - in terms of obtaining ISOs.
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by donaldm · 2011-09-13 17:40 · Score: 1

You don't have OS install discs for your OS of choice squirreled away somewhere? I thought every slashdotter did...
Does a boot-able iso on a USB count? I have not installed an OS from a DVD for a few years now and I don't even use DVD's for backups preferring portable hard drives which actually work out cheaper for the amount of data I backup.

--
There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by mikechant · 2011-09-14 00:27 · Score: 1

If MS has any faith in their 'activation' systems they should make ISOs available. If they don't trust their copy protection methods enough to do so, they shouldn't have bothered...
See this:
http://techpp.com/2009/11/11/download-windows-7-iso-official-direct-download-links/
The download links to 'digitalrivercontent' appears to be legal, they seem to be a microsoft partner.
Some of the links appear to point to 'network installers' but others such as this one for Ultimate 64 bit:
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24395.iso
seem to be full versions which presumably allow you to install the 30-day trial.
I haven't actually tried this, but I have read many times that the isos were legally available so I'm pretty sure it's all genuine.
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by toddestan · 2011-09-14 12:06 · Score: 1

Microsoft won't sell an XP license anymore, but you can buy a Windows 7 license with downgrade rights. From there, you can use the license to install Windows XP (or Vista if you wanted) on the PC. I don't know if Dell will still do this for you and ship you a brand new system with a Windows 7 sticker and XP on the drive, but HP was still doing this as of fairly recently.
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by toddestan · 2011-09-14 12:08 · Score: 1

Generally speaking I just download the latest netinst disk and burn it to a CD-RW whenever I need to install the OS again. I guess I do have some Live CDs squirreled away that can be used as an install disk too.
Re:I for one look forward to windows 9 by renegadesx · 2011-09-14 17:27 · Score: 1

Doesn't really make sense:

Windows 95: Bad
Windows NT4: Good
Windows 98: Good
Windows 2000 Professional: Very Good (prehaps their best desktop OS ever)
Windows Me: Bad
Windows XP: Bad
Windows Vista: Bad
Windows 7: Good
Windows 8: Bad

--
Make SELinux enforcing again!

Nope! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 05:58 · Score: 3, Insightful

There's not a fucking chance I'm using that shitty windows phone interface.

Re:Nope! by halo_2_rocks · 2011-09-13 06:02 · Score: 1

You are absolutely right. This has got to be the most stupid thing Microsoft has done since they launched the Kin.
Re:Nope! by alen · 2011-09-13 06:05 · Score: 0

this is for the 99% of users out there who don't have hundreds of arcane applications on their computers. just the basic ones and a few games.
the desktop RSS reader seems to be a lot better than google reader. the desktop has been mostly wasted space for years now and this is a pretty good way to put it to good use
Re:Nope! by 0123456 · 2011-09-13 06:13 · Score: 1

this is for the 99% of users out there who don't have hundreds of arcane applications on their computers. just the basic ones and a few games.
If you don't have a ton of arcane Windows apps that won't run in Wine, why would you want to run Windows?
Re:Nope! by jellomizer · 2011-09-13 06:22 · Score: 1

Your still on DOS right? Or you have been using Linux for the past few decades...
If you still use windows.
You will at some point will need to make a choice and use outdated apps or upgrade to a new OS.
If you take too long you will be the Old Man who doesn't know how to use the new stuff...

--
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Re:Nope! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 06:23 · Score: 0

Cause you're an average user who doesn't know crap about computers?
PS. Are you always this dense or on Tuesdays only? :)
Re:Nope! by alen · 2011-09-13 06:26 · Score: 1

because itunes doesn't run on linux
i tried to run ubuntu but gave up. it's slow and annoying. i'll probably just get a mac next year to run ^nix
Re:Nope! by 0123456 · 2011-09-13 06:32 · Score: 1

Cause you're an average user who doesn't know crap about computers?
Then why would you want to run Windows? I'm constantly having people ask me how to do things in Windows, from installing antivirus software to dealing with yet another malware infestation, and I'm so glad I can now say 'I don't know, I don't use it anymore'.
Re:Nope! by Aggrajag · 2011-09-13 06:32 · Score: 3, Insightful

First thing I've always done with Windows is to enable current incarnation of the classic theme.
Re:Nope! by 0123456 · 2011-09-13 06:33 · Score: 1

because itunes doesn't run on linux
Sure, but that's not a reason to run Windows. There are other operating systems which don't come from Microsoft, and some of them run itunes.
Re:Nope! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 06:36 · Score: 0

Why would anyone replace decent windows apps with arcane lunix apps?
Re:Nope! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 06:39 · Score: 0

Cause they're stupid? I've seen people complain about Linux on their netbook they use solely for Facebook and nothing else, not even mail.
Re:Nope! by alen · 2011-09-13 06:48 · Score: 1

and i don't want to spend $2000 on a 15" laptop if i can help it. most of my computing is done on android and iOS. i only use my laptop for vpn and a few other things.
Re:Nope! by Verunks · 2011-09-13 06:52 · Score: 1

you don't have to, the classic interface is there even on tablets, we have seen office 2010 running on a tablet in classic mode when windows 8 was unveiled
also microsoft might not be that open but they always give you tons of options to customize windows, some of them are hidden in the registry, but I bet that you will be able to choose the default interface from the control panel
Re:Nope! by AdamHaun · 2011-09-13 07:00 · Score: 1

I click on a link to check out the interface and the first thing I see is a bunch of garish primary colors. Come on, Microsoft, if you're going to rip off Apple at least do it well.

--
Visit the
Re:Nope! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 07:05 · Score: 0

Exactly the same thing i said when I saw unity in ubuntu... Just change "windows" for "ios"
Re:Nope! by GameboyRMH · 2011-09-13 07:06 · Score: 2

Your mistake was buying an Apple digital audio player. Get one that supports USB mass storage mode next time.
And watch out for the cameras coming out nowadays that don't support USB mass storage mode...

--
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Re:Nope! by GameboyRMH · 2011-09-13 07:08 · Score: 1

They've been putting less and less effort into the classis theme since Vista.
The Vista/7 interface is better anyways, the only time I went with classic is with XP, because the Fisher-Price theme was just uglier and didn't function differently.

--
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Re:Nope! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 07:09 · Score: 0

Look up Classicshell
Re:Nope! by Tsingi · 2011-09-13 07:19 · Score: 1

I can now say 'I don't know, I don't use it anymore'.
Me too. I just shrug my shoulders and say it's not something I'm prepared to help them with. Life is too short.
Re:Nope! by Darinbob · 2011-09-13 07:29 · Score: 2

Is there something wrong with the old man who doesn't use the new stuff? Is the new stuff actually better or merely new? Are the old apps inferior or merely old? If you think old stuff is awful then stop using them but don't bash your elders over it. And why are you using an ancient technology like slashdot anyway (I hope you're not using an archaic computer designed many months ago and are only using hip new tablets or phones to post).
Re:Nope! by glassware · 2011-09-13 07:31 · Score: 1

+1 thank god someone's willing to say it.
That Windows Phone interface just looks terrible. It's supposed to give me a nifty "at-a-glance" view of everything. But because each tile has its own layout and style, no two tiles looks similar and it makes it impossible to get an easy overview of what's pending.
Also, what kind of a guy thinks of the idea of having Metro half-off-the-screen at all times? There are clearly better ways to communicate "there's more, scroll right!" without looking ugly.
Re:Nope! by Darinbob · 2011-09-13 07:31 · Score: 4, Insightful

But XP and Windows 7 UI still feel like a step back in some ways. I want SMALLER UI elements and they keep getting larger. The OS keeps trying to get into the foreground instead of being unnoticed in the background.
Re:Nope! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 07:33 · Score: 0

The first thing I've always done with it is format its partition.
Re:Nope! by node+3 · 2011-09-13 07:34 · Score: 2, Insightful

Your mistake was buying an Apple digital audio player. Get one that supports USB mass storage mode next time.
How is that a mistake?

And watch out for the cameras coming out nowadays that don't support USB mass storage mode...
Why?
People buy things for their own purposes, not yours.
Re:Nope! by node+3 · 2011-09-13 07:35 · Score: 1

Cause they're stupid? I've seen people complain about Linux on their netbook they use solely for Facebook and nothing else, not even mail.
"What?!! Someone doesn't like what I like? They must be stupid!"
Re:Nope! by GameboyRMH · 2011-09-13 07:38 · Score: 2

Getting larger? Only a tiny bit. The 7 Start button is taller and the window controls are a little bigger but that's it. It's a decent response to increasing screen resolutions.

--
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Re:Nope! by GameboyRMH · 2011-09-13 07:44 · Score: 1

How is that a mistake?
It restricted his choice of operating systems to those that Apple supports.

Why?
He seemed to be interested in keeping his operating system choices open.

--
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Re:Nope! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 07:56 · Score: 0

All that change must be terrifying for you for that whole 10 seconds. MY GOD THE BUTTON MOVED I'M LOST.
Re:Nope! by narcc · 2011-09-13 07:57 · Score: 1

I can now say 'I don't know, I don't use it anymore'.
Me too. I just shrug my shoulders and say it's not something I'm prepared to help them with. Life is too short.
Yeah, helping others is just a waste of time.

--
Required reading for internet skeptics
Re:Nope! by node+3 · 2011-09-13 08:04 · Score: 2

How is that a mistake?
It restricted his choice of operating systems to those that Apple supports.
Correct. But how, exactly, is that a mistake?

Why?
He seemed to be interested in keeping his operating system choices open.
He seemed interested in running a Unix or Unix-like OS. But he seemed even more interested in having an iPod.
Based on his implied preferences, you called the wrong thing a mistake. He even mentioned a solution which seems to fit his wishes perfectly: getting a Mac. This is a perfectly valid solution, contrary to what some people around here seem to think.
Re:Nope! by alexandre_ganso · 2011-09-13 08:05 · Score: 1

1) 99% of users out there have no idea what rss is;
2) that reminds me of those push clients and active desktop.
Re:Nope! by Spunkee · 2011-09-13 08:15 · Score: 0

I can now say 'I don't know, I don't use it anymore'.
Me too. I just shrug my shoulders and say it's not something I'm prepared to help them with. Life is too short.
Jolly good. I tell them AV is a scam, and if they are getting "infections" then they need to get their porn from some streaming service like xnxx or whatever it is and run chrome with an ad blocker and read the damn comments when they pirate (YAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!) something. Or cut the porn altogether and read the fucking comments. I've never got an "infection" from pirated shit when reviewing the comments and/or using a commentable usenet indexing service. I don't look at porn, because I have a hot wife that gets off well. Informative mod, right?
AV really is a scam, though; and people that fix computers need to quit pushing it. OR -- better yet, start by downplaying AV. I do this when someone really needs it: I point out how flashy and scary their symantec, mcaffee, avg, shit is and that it doesn't look a whole lot different than malware. They agree. Then I tell them it's because it's all a big racket and they actually fund the development of the viruses. They're shocked. Then I install MS Security Essentials. Then I point out how different it is by not being all flashy, scary, and costly, then point out that it's made by Microsoft, and then lie and tell them it's going to be included in future versions of Windows as part of the OS, and that MS is waiting to do this slowly so they don't get sued by the AV industry.
Which is probably fucking true. I mean... Look at the fucking AVG phone AV app. What the fuck is that?
Re:Nope! by Tsingi · 2011-09-13 08:44 · Score: 2

Yeah, helping others is just a waste of time.
LOL! Not what I meant exactly. I spend a significant amount of time helping others, I get much satisfaction from it.
What I meant was, life is too short to spend it swearing at viruses &etc. that I don't know how to fix. The only help I am qualified to offer now is to install Linux for them. If that's what they want.
Re:Nope! by El_Muerte_TDS · 2011-09-13 09:04 · Score: 1

No, that's wrong.
Now I have a larger resolution, but still the same amount of screen estate to use. That's simply wrong.
Re:Nope! by julesh · 2011-09-13 09:11 · Score: 1

From where I stand, screen resolutions are *decreasing*. Used to be that 19" monitors would typically support 1600x1200, but most that I see advertised for sale these days are either 1440x900 or 1366x768. That's actually fewer pixels than my 17" at 1280x1024.
Re:Nope! by Yunzil · 2011-09-13 10:57 · Score: 2

Really? because of all the smartphone interfaces I've tried, I like the Windows phone interface best.
But my experience is limited to playing with the phones in the AT&T store and the Android phone one of my co-workers has.
Re:Nope! by maglor_83 · 2011-09-13 12:48 · Score: 1

They started out putting a desktop interface into a mobile touchscreen device. They *finally* fix that up and now they want to put a mobile touchscreen interface onto a desktop device?!!
Re:Nope! by antdude · 2011-09-13 13:12 · Score: 1

Then, MS toss it out in the later versions. Look at the ribbon GUI. :(

--
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Re:Nope! by rev0lt · 2011-09-13 14:31 · Score: 1

You do know you can, on current versions of windows, replace the explorer desktop with another application, right? There's even a (rather cool and performant) blackbox port for windows.
Re:Nope! by cbhacking · 2011-09-13 14:35 · Score: 1

Good thing it's largely optional. The only part of interface that is really "Windows Phone" like is the new Start screen (replacing the Start menu) and if you use Start like I do - hit the Windows button, type a few letters to identify an app, hit Enter - your usage won't be affected at all. You only need to look at the new start screen if you're trying to find an app visually instead of by search, and I think it's probably quite acceptable for that.
The desktop is still there and still uses a "windowed" user interface. A very big deal was made out of the fact that all Win7 apps will run on Win8, so they could hardly have done away with the existing Win7 UI paradigm (unlike WinMo to WP7). Your keyboard shortcuts are still there, as are your command line programs and your Desktop and Taskbar icons (along with some cool taskbar improvements, like in-box support for spanning monitors).
The new "metro-style" apps appear to be standard Windows apps except they run full-screen and have some new APIs to play with for hooking into things like a system-wide Search capability (app A registers that it can search for images, then contributes results anytime the user wants to do an image search - even from within unrelated app B). The ability to write them using C/C++, or .NET, with optional XAML for UI, or using JS with CSS/HTML5 for UI, is cool but not revolutionary; Windows has supported "HTML Applications" for years.

--
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
Re:Nope! by bryan1945 · 2011-09-13 15:21 · Score: 1

I wouldn't go so far to say all AV is a scam. Just the stuff you need to pay for and keep up subscriptions for.

--
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
Re:Nope! by drsmithy · 2011-09-13 17:02 · Score: 1

If you don't have a ton of arcane Windows apps that won't run in Wine, why would you want to run Windows?
Because I'm well-versed in the alternatives and prefer it.
Re:Nope! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 18:35 · Score: 0

I have no idea how good or bad a "mobile" interface would be on a desktop PC, but I for one will at least have a look at it (when it's installed on someone elses machine) - you never know, it might actually work!?
Having said that, I agree with what someone else wrote the other day - it would be nice if Microsoft stopped trying to create a one-size-fits-all type of OS!
Re:Nope! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 20:31 · Score: 0

One of the reviews suggests that when you click the Start button on the "normal" desktop, it just brings you back to Metro.
wtf?
Re:Nope! by donaldm · 2011-09-13 21:55 · Score: 1

I can now say 'I don't know, I don't use it anymore'.
Me too. I just shrug my shoulders and say it's not something I'm prepared to help them with. Life is too short.
What that's silly. You should say "Show me the money" :) The problem is many people will.

--
There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
Re:Nope! by donaldm · 2011-09-13 21:57 · Score: 1

because itunes doesn't run on linux
i tried to run ubuntu but gave up. it's slow and annoying. i'll probably just get a mac next year to run ^nix
Just run Windows XP/7 in a virtual machine if you need iTunes.

--
There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
Re:Nope! by Tsingi · 2011-09-14 00:39 · Score: 1

What that's silly. You should say "Show me the money" :) The problem is many people will
I make enough money doing things I want to do.
Re:Nope! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-14 03:25 · Score: 0

there's not a fucking chance i ever use windows again in my life
Re:Nope! by rosencreuz · 2011-09-14 03:41 · Score: 1

Yes, you will. And you'll be telling everyone, once you get used to it, it's a lot better than the previous version. This is what you always do, first complain and then accept. Like all other windows users, you'll never be able to deny it anyways.
Re:Nope! by Aggrajag · 2011-09-16 02:57 · Score: 1

I surprised myself by NOT hating the ribbon in Explorer. First I actually did like Windows 7 and now this. What is happening to me and do I get free TechNet subscription by admitting it in /.?
Re:Nope! by antdude · 2011-09-16 03:20 · Score: 1

That trick doesn't work. :(

--
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Re:Nope! by Aggrajag · 2011-09-16 06:23 · Score: 1

Damn. No friendly Microsofters reading this?

Every other release by grimmjeeper · 2011-09-13 05:58 · Score: 1

Seems like the Windows/Star Trek "every other release" rule is still in play. This user interface will be horrible on the business desktop for people who actually want to get real work done. I wonder how many businesses will avoid Windows 8 and wait for 9 to come out?

Re:Every other release by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 06:01 · Score: 0

Why would you use the touch interface for a desktop? I'm sure it's meant to be used for tablets.
Re:Every other release by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 06:02 · Score: 0

Derp. You can use the Windows 7 interface in Windows 8 with no problems.
I guess you'd have to actually pay attention to things to realise that though. But what fun would it be to derp when you know facts?
Re:Every other release by 0racle · 2011-09-13 06:04 · Score: 1

Those users will simply run the classic Windows 7 Desktop app, and probably find a way to automatically run that on login.

9 will probably do the same thing, if not make it harder to run the Windows 7 Desktop.

--
"I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
Re:Every other release by alen · 2011-09-13 06:06 · Score: 1

most business users have a few apps. MS office and a few corporate apps. business users are also the first ones to whine about desktop icons and shortcuts. this is a pretty good solution.
Re:Every other release by poofmeisterp · 2011-09-13 06:07 · Score: 1

Seems like the Windows/Star Trek "every other release" rule is still in play. This user interface will be horrible on the business desktop for people who actually want to get real work done. I wonder how many businesses will avoid Windows 8 and wait for 9 to come out?
LOL! Nice words.
I wonder how many will buy 8, then wait until 9 comes out and buy it to replace the one they currently have (8) that is SO CLOSE to awesome but just lacking a couple of things [they] HOPE will be in 9! :)
Re:Every other release by Skarecrow77 · 2011-09-13 06:08 · Score: 0

"no problems"?
read TFA. there are all sorts of problems, mostly related to the start menu's new horribleness even in the "win7 desktop".
Re:Every other release by BitZtream · 2011-09-13 06:12 · Score: 1

and probably find a way to automatically run that on login.
Which will be done the same way it is now, by changing a registry key. from metro.exe back to explorer.exe

--
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
Re:Every other release by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 06:12 · Score: 0

I'm at the keynote watching him demonstrate it RIGHT NOW. It works wonderfully.
Educate yourself. /accused of being a microsoft shill in 3... 2... 1... //ah, predictable.
Re:Every other release by Skarecrow77 · 2011-09-13 06:18 · Score: 1

Seeing as I'm not at the keynote, I have to go by the article. The article says "I used it. it's horrible." I have nothing other to gauge an opinion on at this time. Perhaps the author was using an earlier release than what's currently onstage.
Re:Every other release by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2011-09-13 06:20 · Score: 1

I'm at the keynote watching him demonstrate it RIGHT NOW. It works wonderfully.
Educate yourself. /accused of being a microsoft shill in 3... 2... 1... //ah, predictable.
Given that you're reading Slashdot while at the keynote, I have a hard time believing you're paying enough attention to notice any delays, glitches, or other annoyances that might occur during the presentation.

--
#DeleteChrome
Re:Every other release by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · 2011-09-13 06:22 · Score: 2, Insightful

If you're at the fucking keynote, describing a demo as "working wonderfully" you're a Microsoft shill by definition.
Re:Every other release by RatBastard · 2011-09-13 06:23 · Score: 1

My employer hasn't even moved to Window 7 yet.

--
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
Re:Every other release by grimmjeeper · 2011-09-13 06:28 · Score: 1

I missed that part about it being in an app. From TFA:

The familiar Windows desktop, which has been the cornerstone of the operating system since Windows 95, has been effectively demoted to an "app".
Though this sounds like an extra layer that gets in the way of productivity. At least that's my first thought. Hopefully they don't screw things up too badly.
Re:Every other release by pruss · 2011-09-13 06:31 · Score: 1

One can get around the start menu's new horribleness by installing the open source Classic Start Menu. I just installed it on my Win7 laptop--it's really nice, with lots of fine-tuning options. Wonder if that will continue to work in Win8.
Re:Every other release by MikeyC01 · 2011-09-13 06:31 · Score: 1

We're in the beginnings of a 2 year migration from Windows XP to Windows 7 ... Seeing how that's going, I'll probably get Windows 7 at the office by the time Windows 9 RTMs
Re:Every other release by somersault · 2011-09-13 06:35 · Score: 1

It must be a really riveting experience.

--
which is totally what she said
Re:Every other release by somersault · 2011-09-13 06:36 · Score: 1

My users don't whine about icons and shortcuts, they usually ask for more of them (to link to network locations).

--
which is totally what she said
Re:Every other release by Joe+U · 2011-09-13 06:39 · Score: 1

Which will be done the same way it is now, by changing a registry key. from metro.exe back to explorer.exe
I'm betting it will just be a simple dialog box that changes a registry key.
Re:Every other release by amRadioHed · 2011-09-13 06:42 · Score: 1

Thanks for your educated opinion. Up till now all we had was the opinion of some guy who used the software, but now we know the truth since you watched a demo at a marketing event where everything was carefully choreographed to avoid showing anything negative.

--
We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
Re:Every other release by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 06:47 · Score: 0

They say there's a dancing monkey on the program...
Re:Every other release by GameboyRMH · 2011-09-13 07:19 · Score: 1

Well we just rolled out 7 at my office so I guess this place is safe.

--
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Re:Every other release by SleazyRidr · 2011-09-13 07:20 · Score: 2

Considering that many businesses are still on XP, I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see a lot of them hold on to XP until 9 comes out.

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Is 1563649 a prime number?
Re:Every other release by Known+Nutter · 2011-09-13 07:44 · Score: 1

I wonder how many businesses will avoid Windows 8 and wait for 9 to come out?
Avoid 8? You say that as if everyone is on 7. My corporation is on XP for the desktop (we run some Netbooks with whatever they come with) and we will remain there until XP's end-of-life, which I believe is 2014. For some prespective, Chevron Corporation standard's workstation configuration (GIL) is running Vista, and will likely remain there for another 2-3 years.

--
Beware of the Leopard.
Re:Every other release by narcc · 2011-09-13 08:17 · Score: 1

Er, it seems that being a shill by definition requires more than merely exhibiting similar behaviors. In fact, shills purposefully mimic the behavior of legitimate customers/clients. From behavior alone, you can not determine if someone is or is not a shill in this context.
Further, looking at shills in a different sense, behavior is still not an indicator as a shill must act the way they do out of self-interest. That is, the motivation for the praise or defense they offer is what makes a person a shill -- not merely the act of speaking.
In short, someone isn't a Microsoft shill by definition just because they're at a keynote and offering a positive description of the demo.

--
Required reading for internet skeptics
Re:Every other release by omnichad · 2011-09-13 08:26 · Score: 1

As long as they don't try to plug in a USB scanner.
Re:Every other release by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 08:34 · Score: 0

Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all.
Re:Every other release by pkinetics · 2011-09-13 09:08 · Score: 1

Does it work wonderfully, or does the bits and pieces he is presenting work wonderfully?
Never underestimate the end users to do something unscripted that causes programmers to scream "WHY WOULD YOU EVER DO THAT!"
Re:Every other release by Kalriath · 2011-09-13 11:34 · Score: 1

You forgot NT 3 and NT 4.

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For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
Re:Every other release by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 13:15 · Score: 0

XP extended support lasts until 2014. No more security patches or support afterwards. So a lot will be going to 7 rather than risk an RTM 9, if it's even available by then.
Re:Every other release by UnknownSoldier · 2011-09-13 14:23 · Score: 1

> You forgot NT 3 and NT 4. /pedantic You mean NT 3.1, there was no NT 3 -- the reasons vary depending on who you talk to...
Re:Every other release by cbhacking · 2011-09-13 14:46 · Score: 1

Based on... what? Did you actually watch the presentation (it's a free video stream) or did you simply ready the heavily slanted summary?
Productivity improvements:
Remote Desktop with support for multiple connections from the same app (essentially a tabbed interface)..
Improved taskbar support for multi-monitor (span monitors, each part showing only icons for apps present on the monitor in question).
Lower base RAM utilization means you don't need powerful hardware or to wait for disk swapping as often.
Built-in support for re-imaging your box if something goes wrong.
Built-in Hyper-V support, even in client SKUs, makes it extremely easy to run VMs.
There's probably many more - enterprise customers have always been a huge part of Microsoft's target market, and I'm sure they still are - but those were specifically demoed today.

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Re:Every other release by bryan1945 · 2011-09-13 15:39 · Score: 1

Uh huh. I'm sure the presentation was slanted at all. Go suck turf elsewhere.

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Re:Every other release by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 16:49 · Score: 0

Imagine if you bought a house and "had to figure out" how to make the electrical outlets -work- like every other house you owned before...but because this is a new house, it's different...how much would you want to buy it?
Re:Every other release by grimmjeeper · 2011-09-14 02:23 · Score: 1

Based on... what? Did you actually watch the presentation (it's a free video stream) or did you simply ready the heavily slanted summary?
Hello pot. I see you've met kettle.
Talk about heavily slanted. A dog and pony show provided for the press is pretty much the textbook definition of heavily slanted. But since you asked, yes I did watch it.

Productivity improvements: Remote Desktop with support for multiple connections from the same app (essentially a tabbed interface)..
This might be useful to someone. I still don't see how the average user will have any idea what this is for. But I'm sure it's useful somehow.

Improved taskbar support for multi-monitor (span monitors, each part showing only icons for apps present on the monitor in question).
Great. Now I have to go digging around on several task bars to find anything...

Lower base RAM utilization means you don't need powerful hardware or to wait for disk swapping as often.
Yeah, because the operating system is the biggest consumer of RAM in my 16GB system...

Built-in support for re-imaging your box if something goes wrong.
So Microsoft has finally admitted you need to reimage your system every couple of months and is now helping you? How nice of them. I wonder what else they could do to help. Perhaps they could build a system that you don't have to reimage every few months. I know it's a novel concept but they may want to think about giving that a shot.
I've been running another operating system for years, including using their built in update services to upgrade from one version to the next several times, without having to reimage my system once. Why would I want to switch over to an operating system that I have to reimage?

Built-in Hyper-V support, even in client SKUs, makes it extremely easy to run VMs.
This may actually be a useful feature for the few people (a small percentage of the user base) who actually need to do this. But with all the established hypervisors out there, this is really a "Welcome to 2006" moment for Windows. But I'm sure Microsoft has plans to introduce artificial incompatibilities into their system to break functionality in other managers. That way you have to run a Windows based VM manager to get decent performance out of Windows VMs. Microsoft has a history of doing things like that to drive competitors out of business once they finally get around to adding functionality that's already been done better and cheaper by someone else years before.

There's probably many more - enterprise customers have always been a huge part of Microsoft's target market, and I'm sure they still are - but those were specifically demoed today.
If enterprise customers are their target market, why are they pushing a smart phone interface on everyone? Who in the enterprise is going to need a touchscreen interface on their rackmount server?
Re:Every other release by Kalriath · 2011-09-14 09:51 · Score: 1

That is a bit pedantic yeah - I'll just claim for now that "NT 3" is an overarching reference to "NT 3.1" and "NT 3.51".

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Re:Every other release by shmlco · 2011-09-15 07:05 · Score: 1

[sarcasm]
I installed Classic Start Menu, turned off Aero, added a replacement Explorer shell, and turned off all of that annoying security nonsense...
Now that I've deleted all of the improvements, the latest version of Windows is awesome!
[/sarcasm]

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i hope by drolli · 2011-09-13 05:59 · Score: 1

that there is a button to completely turn off metro and switch back to win2k-style menus (yes, i am doing that usually).

Re:i hope by Flyerman · 2011-09-13 06:03 · Score: 1

"When you click on the Windows Desktop tile, you’re thrown back into the familiar Windows 7 desktop, with the Taskbar running along the bottom and the not-so-touch-friendly desktop icons of old."
Obviously I can't speak for 2000 Start Menus, but I can't see it being impossible.
Re:i hope by increment1 · 2011-09-13 06:25 · Score: 2

There is a button to go to the desktop, but I doubt they will let you turn off the Metro UI completely. Microsoft is essentially using windows 8 to force their way into the mobile market. If every user is suddenly familiar with the windows phone UI, and all of their applications suddenly work seamlessly with their desktop and the windows phone OS, then maybe that windows phone starts to look that much better.
It is actually a rather brilliant move (not that I endorse it in any way) by Microsoft to leverage their desktop supremacy into the mobile space while seemingly avoiding anti-trust issues. I am sure that some of their competitors may try to call them out on this, but it seems like it would be an upward legal battle.
Re:i hope by nmb3000 · 2011-09-13 06:34 · Score: 1

When you click on the Windows Desktop tile, you’re thrown back into the familiar Windows 7 desktop, with the Taskbar running along the bottom and the not-so-touch-friendly desktop icons of old.
Obviously I can't speak for 2000 Start Menus, but I can't see it being impossible.
But in the earlier article about the interface they go on to say:

[The classic desktop] is where Microsoft wants you to run applications such as Office and Photoshop: apps that were designed for mouse and keyboard, not touch. Applications can still be pinned to the Taskbar, but infuriatingly the Windows Desktop Start button just throws you back to the touchscreen Start Menu. The Start Menu of old has completely disappeared. This makes it nigh-on impossible to quickly launch an application that isn’t already pinned to your Taskbar, let alone launch items such as the Control Panel.
If Microsoft truly leaves PC users in the dark to this extent then the year Windows 8 is released really will be the Year of the Linux desktop -- and Microsoft will have handed it to them on a silver platter.
I know that I personally will give up on Windows and move to whatever desktop environment lets me work with a full size computer effectively. I do NOT want to deal with dumbass touch interfaces on a PC, whether that's Windows 8, iOS, or frakking Unity.

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Re:i hope by jimmyfrank · 2011-09-13 07:46 · Score: 1

"but I doubt they will let you turn off the Metro UI completely." Incorrect.
Re:i hope by increment1 · 2011-09-13 08:21 · Score: 1

"but I doubt they will let you turn off the Metro UI completely."
Incorrect.
Are you alleging that I do not doubt? Please let me assure you, that I do indeed have my doubts about the situation.
Furthermore, I stand by my doubts that you will not be able to turn off the Metro UI completely (or, at least, perhaps not easily). As far as I know, every boot of windows 8 will boot into the Metro UI first. Perhaps there will be hacks (or hopefully just settings) to boot into the desktop UI directly, but I am not aware of any of these having been revealed just yet. Please let me know if you have further information that elaborates on the situation.
Re:i hope by jimmyfrank · 2011-09-13 08:44 · Score: 1

Did you watch the keynote, the bit about developers using W8?
Re:i hope by rsborg · 2011-09-13 08:58 · Score: 1

It is actually a rather brilliant move (not that I endorse it in any way) by Microsoft to leverage their desktop supremacy into the mobile space while seemingly avoiding anti-trust issues. I am sure that some of their competitors may try to call them out on this, but it seems like it would be an upward legal battle.
This isn't brilliant at all. Strong-arming their way into markets is the only way Microsoft knows how to work. It worked in the early part of the web when they slew a dangerous but small Netscape and subdued Oracle, Sun etc. This time they're competing with Google and Apple both of which have 2+ year head-starts on modern mobile touch devices.
One of these companies provides a better-than-free OS (Google will share search income from your device) and the other company (re)defined the market and owns 50%+ of profit share in the sector. Microsoft has a tough fight ahead... and this time Intel won't necessarily be their ally.

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Re:i hope by muuh-gnu · 2011-09-13 10:38 · Score: 1

> then the year Windows 8 is released really will be the Year of the Linux desktop
Sadly, it wont. Why? You'll answer it yourself in a second:
> I do NOT want to deal with dumbass touch interfaces on a PC, whether that's Windows 8, iOS, or frakking Unity.
The traditional Linux desktops are already ruined, KDE3, Gnome2, all butchered, all gone. Theres only XFCE left, but thats too small, too hobbyist (its basically a one man show), too volatile. KDE4, Gnome3 and Unity are breathteakingly bad and laughably unusable compared to what we once had. Fuck that "designer driven" brave new shit.
Microsoft is finally commiting big-style seppuku, and theres no serious Linux contender to pick up the expected masses of castaways, because Linux desktops have been _already_ gutted. Thanks Apple.
Re:i hope by rev0lt · 2011-09-13 14:53 · Score: 1

I doubt that Microsoft will put all the eggs on wone touchscreen basket, even considering the schedule release. Touchscreen interfaces are ok for some areas of work, but a big no for many others. While the consumer market is big for them, a big chunk of their income comes from "enterprise" products - Office and whatnot, and the server division. Given that many activities envolve real typing, I don't see touchscreen interfaces replacing keyboards and mouse on many activities.
While I don't agree with the seppuku bit, I do agree with you that current linux (and unix) DEs are a wasted opportunity. I love XFCE (as much I can love a X app), but KDE and Gnome should focus on user interaction on the base platform and not on eye candy. I've tried KDE4 and I've got the same dialogs that extended past the screen, the same out-of-place windows, the same bugs when resizing configuration windows loaded with different widgets, but on a slower pace than 3.5 - now a VESA framebuffer isn't enough to display interface bugs. On Gnome, I have the same kind of issues - big unresizable dialogs, that - on lower resolutions - hide the buttons, controls that aren't keyboard-friendly, etc. The last time I run Windows at 800x600 was not pleasant, but everything was available. I have a lot of customers that run windows at 800x600 or 1024x768 (older people tend to have worse eyesight), and at that resolutions pretty much every mainstream *nix DE is unusable.
Re:i hope by macs4all · 2011-09-13 16:03 · Score: 1

Microsoft is finally commiting big-style seppuku, and theres no serious Linux contender to pick up the expected masses of castaways, because Linux desktops have been _already_ gutted. Thanks Apple.
Um, this is an article about WINDOWS. WIN-DOWS. Not OS X.

Just because all the Linux devs. went out and bought MacBooks, saw the OS X UI, and went "This X11 GUI shit looks old and busted now", and tried to out-Eye-Candy Apple (even though OS X itself has seriously toned-down the eye-candy over the years), doesn't somehow make it Apple's fault.
Re:i hope by Cee · 2011-09-13 17:39 · Score: 1

It is actually a rather brilliant move (not that I endorse it in any way) by Microsoft to leverage their desktop supremacy into the mobile space while seemingly avoiding anti-trust issues. I am sure that some of their competitors may try to call them out on this, but it seems like it would be an upward legal battle.
Antitrust issues? I don't think Microsoft currently need to worry about that right now, neither on the desktop nor on the phone side. We've come a long way since the 90's. Internet Explorer has fierce competition (Chrome, Firefox), so has the desktop (Apple) and we aren't all using Windows Phone mobiles, right?
Re:i hope by mikechant · 2011-09-14 01:02 · Score: 1

The traditional Linux desktops are already ruined, KDE3, Gnome2, all butchered, all gone.
I'd hardly say Gnome2 is 'gone' when it's got more than 6 years support left (in Centos 6/RHEL 6).
I may switch to Centos purely on the strength of this if I'm not eventually won over to Gnome 3 or whatever.
(And I'm not implying that CentOS is going to become a mega-popular distro and increase Linux desktop share or anything; I'm sure it will remain a minority interest - but Gnome2 is not 'gone' as far as I'm concerned until there's no serious distros supporting it).
Another thing: I have also read from several sources that Gnome 3 can relatively easily be configured to look and feel almost the same as Gnome 2; *if* this is true and particularly if a popular distro (?Mint perhaps) comes with this as the default configuration, the whole 'end of Gnome 2' issue may turn out to have been a bit of a non-event.

Admitting failure by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 05:59 · Score: 0

The company also claims to have boosted Windows 8 performance with fast boot/shutdown times, a new Task Manager and the option to refresh a PC with a clean install of the OS with apps and setting left intact.

They've thrown in the towel. They recognize they suck so hard at protecting basic system files from user corruption, they've included the option to reimage your Windows install as a basic OS feature.

Re:Admitting failure by ryanov · 2011-09-13 06:13 · Score: 1

Well, the real issue with this is that, in my experience, the apps and settings are the problem, not Windows itself (depending upon whether you consider the registry to be part of the OS or the user settings). I've found that often times nuking the user profile (which is the most obnoxious part to lose) is what solves the problem, not that Windows binaries are corrupted.
Re:Admitting failure by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 06:15 · Score: 0

They've added an automatic file corruption to check if the system files have been changed, so malware targets the archives since they have full admin rights as the user granted them.
They've added System Restore to revert the computer back into a point in history without touching your documents and such. Malware targets that service and disables it because the user granted full admin rights to every program under the sun.
It's kind of hard protect itself when the users themselves say "HEE, HAVE MY SYSTEM FILEZ". Why don't you "su | rm -rf /" on a linux box and see how well the system files are preserved?
Re:Admitting failure by BitZtream · 2011-09-13 06:15 · Score: 2

they've included the option to reimage your Windows install as a basic OS feature.
Except thats not what they are giving you. They're giving you the same thing you've always had, install over the top of an existing install.

option to refresh a PC with a clean install of the OS with apps and setting left intact.
Considering that 99 times out of a 100, its the settings that broke the install in the first place, recopying new files over isn't all that useful.

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Re:Admitting failure by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 06:39 · Score: 0

sfc /scannow, repair installs, and 'Backup or restore from image' does exactly that now. This feature is probably more useful for removing pre-installed vendor bloat.
Re:Admitting failure by 0123456 · 2011-09-13 06:47 · Score: 1

This feature is probably more useful for removing pre-installed vendor bloat.
Surely this will re-install vendor bloat, the way that the current recovery partition does?
Re:Admitting failure by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 07:20 · Score: 0

The article says that the "refresh" feature restores marketplace apps, not the post-install system apps. The recovery partition is 100MB and cannot store bloat. Are you thinking of System Restore?
Perhaps "refresh" will restore back to the unattended setup version of the OS... which normally installs the device drivers and activation files, but not all the bloat.
Re:Admitting failure by macs4all · 2011-09-13 15:51 · Score: 1

Well, the real issue with this is that, in my experience, the apps and settings are the problem, not Windows itself (depending upon whether you consider the registry to be part of the OS or the user settings). I've found that often times nuking the user profile (which is the most obnoxious part to lose) is what solves the problem, not that Windows binaries are corrupted.
I would say the ratio is closer to 50:50 system:non-system corruption; with the two often working in tandem. But that was my thought, too: Why only refresh HALF the warez?

ARM Processing by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 06:02 · Score: 1

I think the most shocking and relevant reveal of today's release was the inclusion of ARM processing. This is big.

Re:ARM Processing by Toonol · 2011-09-13 06:42 · Score: 1

I think the most shocking and relevant reveal of today's release was the inclusion of ARM processing. This is big.

It's not really shocking, because they've already announced they're porting windows to that architecture, but it is a big deal. Far bigger than the new UI, which everybody with a desktop or laptop will just skip over and run Explorer.

I don't know if Windows 8 will do any better in the smartphone/pad field than any other versions of windows have done, but if they can get the same OS running on hardware ranging from phones to servers... that's at least a decent accomplishment, and might keep them in the game.
Re:ARM Processing by 0123456 · 2011-09-13 06:46 · Score: 1

I think the most shocking and relevant reveal of today's release was the inclusion of ARM processing. This is big.
Microsoft can display web pages on ARM! It's amazing! Phenomenal! Who could have predicted that?
Re:ARM Processing by GameboyRMH · 2011-09-13 07:35 · Score: 1

A closed-source multi-arch operating system, this is going to be entertaining...

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Re:ARM Processing by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-09-13 08:59 · Score: 1

You mean, like OS X?
Re:ARM Processing by EvanED · 2011-09-13 09:53 · Score: 1

"going to be"?
NT has been closed-source and multi-arch since it's inception, basically. What architectures it's supported has changed over time, but at one time or another it's run on x86, x64, Power, MIPS, Alpha, Itanium, and now ARM.
Re:ARM Processing by GameboyRMH · 2011-09-13 10:06 · Score: 1

And how often is it run on anything but x86/64 outside of the server room?

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Re:ARM Processing by GameboyRMH · 2011-09-13 10:13 · Score: 1

OSX has changed architectures back and forth, and had planned and designed for architecture changes from early on. Even so they still rely on emulation, and have the convenience of choosing their own hardware.
Legacy compatibility is Microsoft's bread and butter, but in typical Microsoft fashion, they haven't planned for shit. The most they can do is add automatic x86 emulation and cross their fingers. Drivers are going to be a clusterfuck.

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Re:ARM Processing by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-09-13 10:25 · Score: 1

Legacy compatibility is Microsoft's bread and butter, but in typical Microsoft fashion, they haven't planned for shit. The most they can do is add automatic x86 emulation and cross their fingers. Drivers are going to be a clusterfuck.
What would be your proposal on dealing with back-compat problem here? It is clear now that ARM is the architecture of choice for mobile devices, so it has to be supported, one way or another.
Re:ARM Processing by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 14:36 · Score: 0

Windows NT 4.0 Workstation ran on Alpha and Windows XP Professional ran on Itanium. But you're right, nobody cared which is why Microsoft subsequently stopped supporting those architectures. But Windows NT was designed specifically to be portable between architectures and x86-32 was not the first architecture it ran on.
The problem here isn't whether or not Windows will work, that's pretty much a given. The question is applications. Microsoft has apparently committed to providing Internet Explorer and Office on the ARM platform but haven't really stated what else they will port. x86-32 emulation has been pretty much ruled out completely. Apparently Visual C++ will support compiling to ARM but I have not seen anything regarding whether or not .NET or Silverlight will be supported. Since Microsoft seems to be posturing Windows 8 on ARM between the desktop and the phone it would make sense that it can run both the normal "Metro" applications as well as Windows Phone applications, so I expect that support for the .NET Compact Framework as far as the Windows Phone and XNA platforms are concerned.
Honestly, if Microsoft does release Windows 8 on ARM with support for writing native apps using C++ that would be a compelling tablet for me, much moreso than the walled gardens of iOS and Android.

Dear Microsoft by mehrotra.akash · 2011-09-13 06:03 · Score: 4, Insightful

My Desktop PC is NOT a smartphone with a 22 inch screen

Please dont treat it like one

Re:Dear Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 06:11 · Score: 0

Do you think now the text will fit in the screen?
Re:Dear Microsoft by hedwards · 2011-09-13 06:33 · Score: 1

Same here, I paid to get a 24" monitor and a 22" monitor, giving me an interface that's not suited to use on one, let alone both of them, is inexcusable. Large monitors are hardly the domain of the rich at this point.
But, then again those dumb asses over at Ubuntu and Firefox seem to be doing it, so it must automatically be a good idea, right?
Re:Dear Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 07:20 · Score: 0

Not to mention multiple monitors (I use 4 here). Multi-monitor support in general is getting worse. The latest version of GNOME and Ubuntu/Unity are no better. Hell X.org itself has pretty shitty support for multiple monitors (Xinerama sucks ass).
Re:Dear Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 07:26 · Score: 0

Dear Noob, you can drop to desktop, duh.
Re:Dear Microsoft by jimmyfrank · 2011-09-13 07:36 · Score: 1

Score:5, Insightful? Huh...
Re:Dear Microsoft by Hieronymus+Howard · 2011-09-13 07:43 · Score: 2

Yes it is. Or at least it will be soon, whether you like it or not. Microsoft, Apple, Ubuntu and Gnome all say so.
You'll just have to hope that KDE don't give in to this trend of phone/tablet interfaces on PCs.
Re:Dear Microsoft by terjeber · 2011-09-13 09:03 · Score: 1

Why don't you just check the article before spouting your nonsense?
Re:Dear Microsoft by terjeber · 2011-09-13 09:04 · Score: 1

Nobody is, why don't you just read the article?
Re:Dear Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 09:11 · Score: 0

Yeah but Apple is cool and hip with the touch screen.. plus they're rich. We need some of Apple's "cool touchscreen money".
Thanks,
Microsoft
Re:Dear Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 09:42 · Score: 0

Dear mehrotra.akash,
Microsoft has spent years and year trying to shoehorn your desktop OS into your smartphone. What makes you think we wouldn't also try shoehorning your smartphone OS into your desktop? Also, we've completely run out of ideas on how we can improve our OS and if we allow another 10 year lag between OSes, it would trash our stock price, so we're just going to start changing critical features randomly in order to make it seem like we're innovating.
Sincerely,
Microsoft
Re:Dear Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 10:33 · Score: 0

Dear Canonical,
My Desktop PC is NOT a smartphone with a 22 inch screen
Please dont treat it like one
Re:Dear Microsoft by hedwards · 2011-09-13 11:43 · Score: 1

Because MS is insisting that the same interface is suitable for any screen. Which is precisely what I'm bitching about.
Perhaps, you ought to read the article and the comment before spewing your ignorant nonsense.
Re:Dear Microsoft by exomondo · 2011-09-13 12:07 · Score: 1

Because MS is insisting that the same interface is suitable for any screen. Which is precisely what I'm bitching about.
What's unsuitable about it? Most of the things that you now run in Windows on your desktop would be run in the context of the desktop app anyway.
Re:Dear Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 12:13 · Score: 0

My Desktop PC is NOT a smartphone with a 22 inch screen
That's easy to solve: just add one of these.
Re:Dear Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 16:32 · Score: 0

>You'll just have to hope that KDE don't give in to this trend of phone/tablet interfaces on PCs.
Plasma active, need I say more?
Re:Dear Microsoft by hedwards · 2011-09-13 17:00 · Score: 1

You make different design decisions depending upon the size of the screen. Only a dumb ass thinks that a UI that works well for a netbook is going to work acceptably on a large monitor. It just doesn't work. Yes, a context menu is a good thing, but not if they're going to also ditch the rest of the task bar to save pixels that one might not even need or want saved.
Most of the usability issues I have on my computer are the direct result of somebody designing a UI for a small screen and assuming that it'll scale to large screens. Doesn't work. Having to move the mouse nearly a yard is a hassle, and yes solved by having a context start menu, but that's not a valid reason for getting rid of the entire bar. There's plenty of useful information down there.
Re:Dear Microsoft by exomondo · 2011-09-13 17:54 · Score: 1

Having the 'Metro' view and the 'Desktop' view is the way they are accommodating for small and large screens.
Re:Dear Microsoft by terjeber · 2011-09-13 18:12 · Score: 1

Again, ignorant nonsense doesn't get less ignorant or less nonsense just because you spout it twice. Microsoft is saying nothing of the kind. Microsoft is saying that when you are using touch the Metro interface is the most appropriate, but if you are, for example, using Photoshop, the more traditional Windows 7 interface is the appropriate. That is why both are available in Windows 8.
Only someone with severe brain damage would claim that that means that "MS is insisting that the same interface is suitable for any screen".
Re:Dear Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 18:58 · Score: 0

There are many touch-screen desktop PC's on the market these days, so having a touch-screen OS that works on a desktop is a *good* idea. However, it should be "flexible" to support both touch and mouse.
Having said that, with PC's that do not have a touch-screen and only have a mouse, then a "classic" interface *should* be offered!
Re:Dear Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 19:37 · Score: 0

For windows desktop users this still seems epic fail to me.
view this new video.
http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/Jensen-Harris-Walks-Us-Through-the-Windows-8-UI#time=0h8m19s
Put it forward to about 8m 10sec and listen to what the desktop is now.
View it as another app my ass.
This seriously is a toy UI for phones and tables.
Desktop users are going to be force feed a fragmented UI with some now windows apps moving to metro and screwing the desktop user to having to display this app full screen losing all there other apps.
Back and forth switching between metro and desktop to use a PC. Utter rubbish so far.
Sure to play apple.2 they need a phone / tablet UI. Dont force it down desktop users throats.
Re:Dear Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-14 00:55 · Score: 0

Your aspergers is showing...
Re:Dear Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-14 02:48 · Score: 0

You don't think it would be really convenient as a developer to have your software be available in both a mobile platform and a desktop platform? It seems like a good thing to move toward all platforms having the same OS, so long as you have a choice as to which OS.
Re:Dear Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-14 06:56 · Score: 0

Plasma Active is for tablets only, NOT desktops. The desktop interface is going to stay tailored exclusively for desktops. Stop spreading FUD.
Re:Dear Microsoft by toddestan · 2011-09-14 12:20 · Score: 1

Actually, it kind of makes sense when you consider that the current trends in large monitors are more suitable for televisions and not for computing. I mean, what else do you expect them to create for a 16:9 monitor with a crappy DPI?

Translation by poofmeisterp · 2011-09-13 06:05 · Score: 3, Insightful

Quote from link: "Every screen needs to be touch. A monitor without touch feels dead."

Response: Like everything developed by every company that wants to have mass market sales, it's humorous to NOT hear "It's what we've noticed as something very popular with other types of [technology] that eats up peoples' time and develops even further interest in buying. Mystery and slow revelation with additional hidden secrets is the key to fast up-front sales. We'll jump on the bandwagon, but it's something completely different from the norm! Buy it and you'll find out how!"

Honesty is too painful to just throw out there, I guess. :)

Not troll material or flamebait at all - It's just something I see constantly and I find it humorous. I may love Windows 8, I may hate it. Don't know until I use it.

Re:Translation by ryanov · 2011-09-13 06:15 · Score: 1

Yeah, because fingerprints all over my desktop screen full time is what I want/need.
Re:Translation by poofmeisterp · 2011-09-13 06:22 · Score: 1

Yeah, because fingerprints all over my desktop screen full time is what I want/need.
If I may add, I do believe that a monitor with touch is just as dead as a monitor without touch. Correct me if I'm wrong. :>
Re:Translation by 0123456 · 2011-09-13 06:23 · Score: 1

If I may add, I do believe that a monitor with touch is just as dead as a monitor without touch. Correct me if I'm wrong. :>
You just aren't touching it right :).
Re:Translation by poofmeisterp · 2011-09-13 06:30 · Score: 1

If I may add, I do believe that a monitor with touch is just as dead as a monitor without touch. Correct me if I'm wrong. :>
You just aren't touching it right :).
Dear Microsoft,
I was at work today and my boss asked me how my statistics report was coming along. I tried to show her a copy but for some reason it wouldn't budge. I had to slow down. I ran my moist finger from the bottom to the top very slowly, inch by inch, until finally, it popped up like a shaking little window that just had the best time of its life beneath the pressure of my nimble index.
Sincerely,
John Doe
LOL
Re:Translation by Richard_at_work · 2011-09-13 06:42 · Score: 1

That was the same argument made against the iPhone, when it was first revealed - who wants finger prints all over their movie player? Sure turned out to be a huge issue in the end...
Re:Translation by tycoex · 2011-09-13 07:16 · Score: 1

I think it's slightly easier to wipe off a phone screen on your pant leg than it is a 20 inch monitor.
Re:Translation by rsborg · 2011-09-13 08:46 · Score: 1

Quote from link: "Every screen needs to be touch. A monitor without touch feels dead."
Touch-screen 22" Monitor is costly and unusable. I like what Apple did with OSX Lion - Grab a magic trackpad and you have multi-touch trackpad gestures that are quite immersive while not suffering the gorilla arm fatigue issue (or fingerprints as other commenters have noted).

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Re:Translation by exomondo · 2011-09-13 12:10 · Score: 1

I like what Apple did with OSX Lion - Grab a magic trackpad and you have multi-touch trackpad gestures that are quite immersive while not suffering the gorilla arm fatigue issue (or fingerprints as other commenters have noted).
I think so too, the 2-finger scrolling feels very natural.
Re:Translation by bryan1945 · 2011-09-13 15:48 · Score: 2

I use my tongue. Makes me feel tingly.

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Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
Re:Translation by bryan1945 · 2011-09-13 15:51 · Score: 1

Keyboard --> Mouse --> Trackball --> Trackpad --> Having a monkey do stuff for you (?)

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Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.

Ubuntu support, please start gearing up by mehrotra.akash · 2011-09-13 06:05 · Score: 1

This version can actually mean the year of Linux on the desktop.

If Windows XP had not lasted so long, or 7 had not come so soon, Ubuntu would have a non insignificant marketshare as of now

Having the same interface from 4 inch to 40 inch screens --- I really dont see how they can make something that scales SO well, will wait and watch, but I have serious doubts regarding the success

Re:Ubuntu support, please start gearing up by CynicTheHedgehog · 2011-09-13 06:15 · Score: 1

p>Having the same interface from 4 inch to 40 inch screens --- I really dont see how they can make something that scales SO well, will wait and watch, but I have serious doubts regarding the success
Isn't this what Ubuntu was trying to achieve with Unity and Gnome with Gnome Shell? The smartphone/tablet market is the one that's growing right now, so everyone's chasing those dollars.
(Incidentally, I happen to like Gnome Shell and it seems to work well with large desktops and multiple monitors, so it seems like the goal is achievable.)
Re:Ubuntu support, please start gearing up by mehrotra.akash · 2011-09-13 06:16 · Score: 1

Using 10.04, never tried those.
Perhaps I should give them a try
Re:Ubuntu support, please start gearing up by Junta · 2011-09-13 06:17 · Score: 1

If Windows XP had not lasted so long
Windows XP lasted (past tense may not be accurate, but oh well) as long as they needed it to. It's not like XP suddenly will 'stop working' no matter what MS wants. So a hypothetical MS OS flop just means they fix it for 9 and the world largely pretends 8 doesn't exist and MS will roll with that so long as it prevents other desktop OSes.

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Re:Ubuntu support, please start gearing up by mehrotra.akash · 2011-09-13 06:21 · Score: 1

By lasted I meant security patches and driver support.
Even 1-2 year old laptops seem to have Windows XP driver support.
Though I agree that its more of a decision on the Laptop manufacturer than Microsoft, but the market support is there.
Re:Ubuntu support, please start gearing up by BitZtream · 2011-09-13 06:24 · Score: 1

Sigh, still with this shit?
Vista didn't fuck up bad enough to make it 'The Year of the Linux Desktop', nothing is going to.
Until Linux gets some polish it will continue to be nothing but a sock puppet for political fanatics like Stallman and self serving 'developers' who can't be bothered with finishing features they start.

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Re:Ubuntu support, please start gearing up by Microlith · 2011-09-13 06:26 · Score: 1

No. Linux will never make inroads due to the immense legacy of software that requires Windows to run. Microsoft achieved their goal of a desktop that is completely unable to escape it.
You, however, are just a hateful shit.
Re:Ubuntu support, please start gearing up by alen · 2011-09-13 06:51 · Score: 1

the year of linux on the desktop will finally be when Motorola will sell enough of their phones to make a dent in iOS user numbers
Re:Ubuntu support, please start gearing up by julesh · 2011-09-13 07:25 · Score: 1

Frankly, based on what I see here, there was nothing wrong with Vista. Sure, it needed a bit of tweaking, but this new version sounds hideous. A full screen application selection interface that's triggered whenever you press the 'start' button or when you first log in. MS pushing application developers down a route where their apps will only run full screen (or at least not coexist with traditional desktop apps). And it sounds like if you disable it (IF that's even possible -- the article doesn't discuss the possibility), you won't get the new features. Yeah, Vista was fine in comparison to this.
Re:Ubuntu support, please start gearing up by Lifyre · 2011-09-13 07:47 · Score: 1

Could you please elaborate? Last I checked there were significantly more Android users than iOS users. Last I checked Android was the flavor of Linux Motorola peddled.

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I'll meet you at the intersection of "Should be" and "Reality"
Re:Ubuntu support, please start gearing up by Spunkee · 2011-09-13 09:01 · Score: 0

You, however, are just a hateful shit.
But he speaks the truth. Linux needs some polish. I'll give you that they don't have the resources that MS and Apple have, but that doesn't really matter to the consumer.
Re:Ubuntu support, please start gearing up by terjeber · 2011-09-13 09:07 · Score: 1

Every year has been "the year of Linux on the desktop". Here is a clue for you from the real world: It's never going to happen. Seriously. Never. Linux is not a consumer grade OS, and there is no effort on the way by anyone, anywhere to make it one. Stop dreaming about it. The closest you are going to get is "The year for Linux on the Phone".
Re:Ubuntu support, please start gearing up by bigstrat2003 · 2011-09-13 09:26 · Score: 1

Vista was fine, period. I used it for a couple years as my day-to-day OS, and it was just another version of Windows. Not really remarkable, but certainly not worthy of the hate which got slung at it (which started feeding into itself at some point, causing people to avoid Vista just because they heard it was bad).

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"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
Re:Ubuntu support, please start gearing up by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 10:38 · Score: 0

No, Ubuntu will just make their own interface that copies Windows 8's, but with additional shitty quirks. Think Unity but lamer.
Re:Ubuntu support, please start gearing up by HJED · 2011-09-13 12:52 · Score: 1

Unity is terrible
Gnome 3 is pretty good, but I had to install the avant dock (which is in the ubuntu repositorys) as not having a taskbar is a pain.

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Re:Ubuntu support, please start gearing up by HJED · 2011-09-13 12:55 · Score: 1

Last time I checked Android isn't 'on the desktop'

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Re:Ubuntu support, please start gearing up by macs4all · 2011-09-13 16:40 · Score: 1

It's not like XP suddenly will 'stop working' no matter what MS wants.

Really? What happens when they turn off WGA for XP?
Re:Ubuntu support, please start gearing up by GameboyRMH · 2011-09-16 03:49 · Score: 1

Android is hardly Linux. Only the kernel was based on the Linux kernel and it's so different it's incompatible. I'll never understand the guys cheering "Linux victory!" at Android's popularity.

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"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Re:Ubuntu support, please start gearing up by poofmeisterp · 2011-09-18 05:17 · Score: 1

*cough cough*java*cough choke cough*
Man, I can't *choke* clear my throat today. *hack*
Re:Ubuntu support, please start gearing up by Lifyre · 2011-09-19 11:16 · Score: 1

Agreed but my point still stands unless Motorola is selling a version of linux beyond Android. No matter how little Android is linux it is still the only product from the linux lineage they have from what I understand.

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I'll meet you at the intersection of "Should be" and "Reality"
Re:Ubuntu support, please start gearing up by Lifyre · 2011-09-19 11:17 · Score: 1

And neither are Motorola Phones or iOS (at least for now.)

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I'll meet you at the intersection of "Should be" and "Reality"

So... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 06:06 · Score: 0

Where are the ui pictures?
All I see are screenshots of someone's phone..

FUD in the article by Suiggy · 2011-09-13 06:06 · Score: 1

Metro is the default UI, but you can switch back to Aero Glass/Aero/Classic by tapping the Windows key on your keyboard. Metro isn't mandatory or forced on you on the desktop.

Re:FUD in the article by rubycodez · 2011-09-13 06:15 · Score: 4, Insightful

FUD back at you, when most apps require the Metro, that won't be a useful solution.
Re:FUD in the article by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 06:27 · Score: 0

It's been 2+ years and I'm not aware of a Windows 7-requiring application. Nobody is going to port an old application to Metro because 90% of users will be on XP/Vista/Win7. New applications, however....
Re:FUD in the article by jo42 · 2011-09-13 06:29 · Score: 2

Every time I see "Metro", I see "Metrosexual" as in Windows Metrosexual. Oh well, off to the land of OS X - frak Messysoft.
Re:FUD in the article by rubycodez · 2011-09-13 06:41 · Score: 1

As it happens, I've already run into a few such apps. For example, the provisioning software for new HP Thin clients requires either Windows 7 or certain version of Windows Server to run.
Re:FUD in the article by slack_justyb · 2011-09-13 06:52 · Score: 1

when most apps require the Metro, that won't be a useful solution.
I concur. This whole Metro UI thing sets the stage for the future. At some point the "classic" desktop becomes a moot point in new versions of programs. Meaning it becomes a moot point for end-users too, unless you actually wanted to get work done.
Re:FUD in the article by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 06:56 · Score: 0

Who uses Windows for anything but legacy software and games? Do you really expect a resurgence of the Windows platform? The Windows app scene has been dead since Vista's arrival. Is Metro going to inspire a new generation of programmers ? ... I laugh at the very notion.
Re:FUD in the article by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 07:00 · Score: 0

Idiot, read the rtfa if you are gonna diss it. They did mention the desktop.
"So what of the desktop apps that we run today? These can still be used on the old-school Windows Desktop which now – somewhat confusingly – has been demoted to an “app”. When you click on the Windows Desktop tile, you’re thrown back into the familiar Windows 7 desktop, with the Taskbar running along the bottom and the not-so-touch-friendly desktop icons of old.
This is where Microsoft wants you to run applications such as Office and Photoshop: apps that were designed for mouse and keyboard, not touch. Applications can still be pinned to the Taskbar, but infuriatingly the Windows Desktop Start button just throws you back to the touchscreen Start Menu. The Start Menu of old has completely disappeared. This makes it nigh-on impossible to quickly launch an application that isn’t already pinned to your Taskbar, let alone launch items such as the Control Panel."
While it's true there is still the desktop, it obviously won't be the same as it will no longer be the focus point. For users who rely heavily on multi-tasking on their desktop, this is a major step back. Things that are already hidden in windows will become even more hidden.
Re:FUD in the article by Billly+Gates · 2011-09-13 07:09 · Score: 1

FUD back at you again. Most apps DON'T use Metro. Metro is for HTML5 + Ajax crap.
For a non-biased story, well respected Ars Technica admitted to it having both interfaces. They have one of the Samsung tablets and did a review with Metro and are now writting a review with using Windows 8 on a regular desktop with the Windows 7 desktop.
Worst storying posting on slashdot ever.

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Re:FUD in the article by Suiggy · 2011-09-13 07:29 · Score: 1

Sure is butt-ranged and biased in here.
Re:FUD in the article by 0123456 · 2011-09-13 07:37 · Score: 1

FUD back at you again. Most apps DON'T use Metro. Metro is for HTML5 + Ajax crap.
And it's now the preferred interface with the desktop as an 'option'.
Re:FUD in the article by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-09-13 09:02 · Score: 0

Most apps DON'T use Metro. Metro is for HTML5 + Ajax crap.
You're wrong on two counts. For one, Metro apps can also be written in C++ or C#/VB. For another, the new app store will only accept Metro apps - and developers will inevitably race to be listed there.
Yes, you do have the classic desktop. It's not quite a full experience, though, because, for one, you don't have a classic start menu (I fully expect someone will write an app for that that works exactly the same though, so this is probably not a big deal). And you can't "get rid" of Metro, because the classic desktop runs in Metro. So e.g. the swipe-from-edge gestures are always there.
Re:FUD in the article by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-09-13 09:03 · Score: 1

Oh well, off to the land of OS X
Surely you mean, "off to the land of Oh Sex"? ~
Re:FUD in the article by terjeber · 2011-09-13 09:10 · Score: 1

You don't get out much, do you? Mommy won't let you out of the basement? Just whack here over the head with something heavy and run away. Find your way to the nearest road (you'll recognize it when you see it, it's hard, probably black or grey and it is long. On the ground. You can walk on it.). Once you hit the road, walk for a day or two and you'll find other houses. Stop there and ask for help.
Re:FUD in the article by alexandre_ganso · 2011-09-13 10:13 · Score: 1

You mean that every time someone stumbles upon the windows key, it will open the old interface?
Re:FUD in the article by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 11:26 · Score: 0

Yeah... when I tried doing that once, I must have been intoxicated. I saw AppleTVs and Macbooks all over... and everywhere else, I saw aging Windows machines with decade-old email clients, word software, and ancient Firefox/IE installs.
Re:FUD in the article by Kalriath · 2011-09-13 15:18 · Score: 1

You got that wrong actually. Both Metro and Win32 apps will be available on the App Store, but the App Store will be the only place to get Metro apps.

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For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
Re:FUD in the article by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-09-13 15:45 · Score: 1

According to the keynote, Win32 apps are merely listed in the app store (with a link to website), but they're not directly installable from it. So it's not really a store for them, but more like a catalog. Which is quite a killer for impulse purchases that drive both Apple's and Android app stores today.
Re:FUD in the article by rubycodez · 2011-09-14 03:50 · Score: 1

hey, at least the thin clients run GNU/Linux (yay?). provisioned by software that only can run on windows (boo, hiss), usually to connect to apps running on windows (aw, suck) though some clients actually run things on Unix(tm), system/z or Linux(tm)
Re:FUD in the article by rubycodez · 2011-09-14 03:51 · Score: 1

you mean like Firefox 5? I know, that is *so* last season.
Re:FUD in the article by Saffaya · 2011-09-14 07:07 · Score: 1

DX11 games ? (Vista/7 combo)
Re:FUD in the article by Kalriath · 2011-09-14 09:53 · Score: 1

Ah, well that sucks a tad. Still, from looking at Apple's Mac App Store, impulse purchases are not all that likely anyway - the majority of apps are at typical desktop app prices (tens to hundreds of dollars).

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For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".

Slow Follower by MonsterTrimble · 2011-09-13 06:07 · Score: 1

Essentially, they are following what Opera, Chrome, Unity, Android, and iOS have been doing for how long? And this is big news?

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I call it 'The Aristocrats'

Re:Slow Follower by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 07:06 · Score: 0

watch the lemmings follow each other to their doom.
Re:Slow Follower by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-09-13 09:04 · Score: 1

It's big news because it's an OS that runs on 80%+ of computers today. It would be big news even if it if did what XKCD suggested. ~

Every System Needs a Touchscreen? by jesseck · 2011-09-13 06:07 · Score: 1

FTFA:

Microsoft insists that the touch-oriented interface is suitable for any device, regardless of whether it has a touchscreen or not. "We envision an OS that scales from small form-factor, keyboardless tablets, all the way up to servers," said Windows president Steven Sinofsky, at a special press preview of the new operating system.

What's more, the company believes that every device should have a touchcreen. "The UI is the same UI, whether you use a mouse, keyboard or touch," said Jensen Harris, director of program management for the Windows Experience. "Every screen needs to be touch. A monitor without touch feels dead."

I, for one, don't want a server with this "Metro" interface and a touchscreen. I look forward to Windows 9, once Windows 8 is out of beta.

Re:Every System Needs a Touchscreen? by 0123456 · 2011-09-13 06:10 · Score: 2

'User Interface Designers' are clueless about what users actually want; news at eleven.
Re:Every System Needs a Touchscreen? by Pop69 · 2011-09-13 06:22 · Score: 1

You've been able to get this since 2k8 Server with a server core install.

I'm not above a little Microsoft bashing but you should at least do some basic research before you start trolling about haveing to use the GUI
Re:Every System Needs a Touchscreen? by mlts · 2011-09-13 06:26 · Score: 1

This "Metro" Interface reminds me of the old IBM PS/1 machines back in the early 1990s. It had four huge buttons that you clicked on, usually you clicked the one that booted to DOS and went from there. This interface was a flop.
Will MS screw up with this UI. Iffish, and time will tell. MS has been decent with new UIs, especially Windows 95 which pretty much set the standard for what people expect on a machine. Before that, it was clicking on a program manager, NeXT dock, or having your applications in a right click menu.
Done right, it may be a good thing, however, it will require changes in people's workflows. A full screen app and UI mean that switching applications becomes a multi-step process compared to clicking on a task in the taskbar (or just hitting alt-tab) to go directly from Excel to Word, or from Firefox to a command line prompt.
Re:Every System Needs a Touchscreen? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 07:44 · Score: 0

'Users' are clueless about what users actually want; further news at twelve.
Re:Every System Needs a Touchscreen? by vlueboy · 2011-09-13 08:20 · Score: 1

Done right, it may be a good thing, however, it will require changes in people's workflows.
I already see problems with finding "Print" in the IE 10 screenshots, and hunting for an unlabeled "gear menu" to find Print, a-la Chrome, just confuses the novice users. One of the three articles mentioned that we have a Welcome / lockscreen, then the choice screen, and finally a Desktop button that WON'T be obvious to most users. Every new version seems to add one extra click to switching from screensaver back to your desktop. *sigh*.
Microsoft provides an IT-friendly setting to avoid the Welcome screen altogether and W8 will not be an exception. It allows for external usernames and alternative domains, and no amount of faked MS fanaticism to "touchscreens" (when multi-finger gestures, iPads, and even the iPod touch predate any interest in MS designing for more than a stylus in mind). And the guys implementing those features haven't come to say that all touchless monitors MUST die, so it's a non-sequitur to see MS doing so.
Re:Every System Needs a Touchscreen? by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-09-13 11:21 · Score: 1

I, for one, don't want a server with this "Metro" interface and a touchscreen. I look forward to Windows 9, once Windows 8 is out of beta.
Windows 8, like Windows 7, is the client edition of the OS.
Re:Every System Needs a Touchscreen? by xigxag · 2011-09-13 11:33 · Score: 1

The article is being disingenuous here. Clearly Sinofsky is saying that the OS should scale, not that all of those devices require a touch interface. MS has stated elsewhere that Metro is NOT a "touch-centric" interface.

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Not THAT bad by Toonol · 2011-09-13 06:07 · Score: 1

My first reaction is highly negative, but digging into it further, it doesn't look that bad. It'll bring up an icon display, you click 'explorer', and you're back at the standard mouse/keyboard windows UI. So my response is tempered to just slightly negative, in that there'll be one extra step during bootup.

I'm sure it will be able to be configured to go straight into Explorer, and that's what everybody who runs 8 on a desktop will do.

Re:Not THAT bad by dmacleod808 · 2011-09-13 06:27 · Score: 1

No doubt the "go to explorer button" is some sort of link that can be placed in the startup folder?

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There Can Be Only One...

I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by jimicus · 2011-09-13 06:08 · Score: 1, Insightful

Let me get this straight.

I only looked at the first link but the first thing that jumped out at me was:

The advent of Windows 8 sees Microsoft introduce a new style of application, dubbed Metro Style apps, and its own app Store. The Metro Style apps are run in full-screen mode, with no Windows taskbar or other menu items getting in the way.

"Every single pixel of your beautiful screen is for your app," said Harris. "You're just immersed in the content."

Ok, so there's two big things here. An App Store and a way to run applications in some sort of full-screen interface.

Hmm. I wonder where I've heard these ideas before.

Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by Cajun+Hell · 2011-09-13 06:18 · Score: 3, Insightful

Hmm. I wonder where I've heard these ideas before.
You heard of the app store first probably with some Linux distribution in the 1990s. You heard of full screen mode before you ever heard of any alternative, with nearly every post-dumbterm but pre-windowed platform (e.g. MS-DOS, C64, etc) since fullscreen was all they had.

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"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by Skarecrow77 · 2011-09-13 06:23 · Score: 1

Apple didn't come up with the idea of a centralized repository of software to choose from with a single market browser application. They just came up with the idea of charging money for it.
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by JustinOpinion · 2011-09-13 06:24 · Score: 5, Insightful

They are indeed mimicking Apple. And making the same mistakes, in my opinion.

"Every single pixel of your beautiful screen is for your app," said Harris. "You're just immersed in the content."
As I said when OS X Lion was released, I think this push towards full-screen apps is a move backwards. Yes, having the app fill the screen makes a lot of sense for smartphones and tablets, where screen/interface space is limited and you're typically focusing on a single task at a time. But on a desktop?

The whole point of a multi-purpose desktop computer is to be able to do a myriad of things, and more importantly to combine all the various resources/applications together in powerful ways. I want to be able to have a web-page reference document open while I code something, or copy-and-paste something from a spreadsheet into a text document. I want to be able to cross-compare multiple graphs/images/whatever at the same time. To do all this, I need to be able to tile, stack, and move windows on my screen. Endless alt-tabbing just doesn't cut it.

With desktop monitors getting bigger and bigger, fullscreen apps just don't make sense. Even maximized apps don't make sense: your mouse has to travel ridiculously far to get from content to controls if you make your app fullscreen on a 30-inch monitor. (There are of course times when you want a single app fullscreen; e.g. photo editing on a large monitor gives you a much better view of the content.) One of the main advantages of modern large monitors is the ability to have multiple apps open at once, without them blocking each other or being ridiculously constrained. Why are we throwing away these advantages?

I'm fully aware of the cognitive science research on multi-tasking (specifically, that people are bad at it and that focusing on a single task for a longer period of time has big advantages). What I'm questioning is whether any non-trivial task can really be accomplished using a single application. We should be optimizing our user interfaces to maximize the efficiency and focus on tasks and workflows: not boxing ourselves into stripped-down full-screen apps.
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by BitZtream · 2011-09-13 06:29 · Score: 1

Probably in Windows, which has had full screen apps for the past 17 years or so, if you just start at Win95, or do you mean the Windows app store http://www.windowsmarketplace.com/ which has been around since 2003?
I love my iPhone and Mac, but neither of these two things did Apple invent, Microsoft has been doing BOTH of them before Apple even considered thinking about it.

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Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by Joe+U · 2011-09-13 06:37 · Score: 1

Hmm. I wonder where I've heard these ideas before.
GeOS on the Commodore 64?
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by jo_ham · 2011-09-13 06:37 · Score: 2

You miss his point entirely - his point was not that Apple invented those concepts by any stretch of the imagination (hell, Classic and OS X were about as *far* from fullscreen as you could be in an OS), but that they released a new version of OS X very recently with those two features as key selling points.
Very coincidental, I think?
Either way it's a bit of a no brainer - it's Apple's attempt to streamline desktop computing to make it easy enough for anyone to use and there are a lot more users who want that in a computer. It doesn't mean (on either platform) that the 'old' way is going - it mentions it right in TFA that you can go back to classic view, and you can run 'fullscreen ready' apps in OS X in the old way (which I do - I prefer the layered window approach with Command+H being my usual method of task switching).
Just like the mp3 player, the tablet, a online music store, the large-screen-multitouch smartphone, the all-in-one desktop computer, Apple didn't "invent" the App Store, but they did make it the current popular thing.
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 06:53 · Score: 0

Just wait until Mac OS X "Liger", which will go back to the Snow Leopard way and force Microsoft to waste all kinds of money resurrecting the Windows 7 codebase for Windows 9.
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 07:06 · Score: 1

Oh hey, Apple finally got a full-screen interface after a decade of os-x and how many other years of MacOS! And that's after years of insisting that when you click the 'maximize' button, you don't actually want to fill the entire screen. Who would want to do something that windows has done since the 1990s?
So yeah, Apple finally got full screen apps after every other OS has had it for years. But since his Steve-ness announced it, its the most magical thing you can imagine.
I'll now wait for you to explain how every other OS's full-screen is wrong, and Apple's way is the only way it should be done, and how Steve Jobs himself prevented this from being released for the past 2 decades until he was personally happy that it was implemented "just right".
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by Godai · 2011-09-13 07:16 · Score: 1

If you mean to suggest (and maybe you aren't!) that Microsoft pushed this into Windows 8 because Apple put in Lion, I'd disagree with that. Microsoft's stated aim is "One OS for all devices". Since that hits handhelds, full-screen is a no-brainer and I suspect has been in the works since they started on this strategy.
There's no coincidence here I think, other than both Apple & Microsoft are thinking the same thing "Standardize our OS to work on as many devices as possible." I really, really doubt Apple added that feature because they thought full-screen applications on a desktop were a killer feature -- like others have said, it was that way years ago. Its because they're thinking the same thing as Microsoft. Ever since Lion its felt like iOS and OSX are on a collision course; they may not merge in the end, but I'd personally be surprised if they didn't. At the very least, the same massive bleed/overlap is happening there, Microsoft is just more up front about why they're doing it.

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Wood Shavings!
- Godai
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by tycoex · 2011-09-13 07:17 · Score: 1

I just realized we are all using Windows 8 already.
Prepare to be "immersed" and press F11.
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by metalgamer84 · 2011-09-13 07:38 · Score: 1

GeoWorks back in the DOS days...I still have my install disks.
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by avandesande · 2011-09-13 07:43 · Score: 1

How about they get rid of that stupid $&%*^ ribbon thing to free up some space instead.

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love is just extroverted narcissism
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by cyberchondriac · 2011-09-13 07:55 · Score: 1

200 % agree. I hate when I go to someone else's PC (they need help on something) and all their windows are maximized. That's so geriatric. I like to stack/layer them, and still see a little desktop underneath.

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Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 07:59 · Score: 0

I agree. Mac OS X Lion was the reason I switched from Mac to Windows 7, and I haven't looked back.
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by ajo_arctus · 2011-09-13 08:06 · Score: 1

For Aperture, iMovie, iPhoto and Garage band, full screen mode is actually pretty good (except it doesn't work with a second monitor, which is a shame -- it should at least let you keep the dashboard on there). I wouldn't say it's totally useless. I agree that for safari, mail and iWork it's not so good.
A version of twitter that worked in full screen (like the iPad version, with sliding panels) would be very interesting. It might not work, but I'd like to see it.
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by lgw · 2011-09-13 08:34 · Score: 1

Why not have everything maximized when you have a taskbar for 1-click switching between apps?

--
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by cyberchondriac · 2011-09-13 08:49 · Score: 2

Well, there's a couple of reasons: I keep a row of icons for frequently used apps on the left side of my desktop, I like instant (well, as "instant" as they can be) access to them, so I prefer them visible (in addition to the quick launch bar.. I have a lot of shortcuts!)
I've also noticed a little, infrequent bug where sometimes the taskbar button for a loaded app vanishes, usually Firefox for some reason. There's always the "Alt-Tab" combo, but honestly it just doesn't really appeal to me as a primary method of app switching.. it's just a preference thing.
There's a certain "sweet spot" for me where window size is concerned, because I also can't stand to use windows that are the size of a postage stamp either, which I also frequently see people do -that's just too much scrolling. I guess I like a happy medium, but that's just me, to each their own. *shrug*

--

Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by guruevi · 2011-09-13 08:51 · Score: 2

I agree that for some desktop applications (like web browsing) it's useless. However for some other applications like content creation (movie or photo editing) or consuming (video playback, video chat with presentations) it is nicer to have a full screen available as in your random video game so you're not distracted by your e-mail counter or other random things that happen.
As you said, multitasking is hard and it's sometimes nicer to even work on a document or e-mail and simply have some type of solid, dark colored background away from all the apps that scream for your attention. Well implemented, your chat will detect it and put you on Away and other applications might not make a notification noise.
Mouse tracking is not an issue, just put your mouse sensitivity and acceleration higher. I can go from the left to the right on my 24" display with about a half inch movement of my thumb (trackball). In the beginning it's a bit odd but you get used to it. Also learn to use the keystrokes for your most used functions.
The problem with your statement is that you would need to create highly user-tailored applications in order to achieve this which is not feasible in the current programming model. Maybe when computers program for us (and can interpret our wishes) we could make such a thing happen where the program is stripped down to fit our needs but for now, we need to live with a stripped down, uniform version.

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Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-09-13 09:06 · Score: 1

his point was not that Apple invented those concepts by any stretch of the imagination (hell, Classic and OS X were about as *far* from fullscreen as you could be in an OS), but that they released a new version of OS X very recently with those two features as key selling points.
The presence of fullscreen and app store in OS X is not particularly relevant; their presence in iOS (and Android) is. Remember, Win8 is not for desktops and laptops only, it's also for tablets (and specifically for ARM tablets). That's where all this stuff comes from.
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-09-13 09:14 · Score: 2

I want to be able to have a web-page reference document open while I code something, or copy-and-paste something from a spreadsheet into a text document. I want to be able to cross-compare multiple graphs/images/whatever at the same time. To do all this, I need to be able to tile, stack, and move windows on my screen. Endless alt-tabbing just doesn't cut it.
Note that Win8, unlike iOS or Android, actually lets you run Metro apps side by side. You do it by using the swipe-from-left-edge gesture, but instead of releasing the finger, you keep it down and drag the app thumbnail onto the edge.
It's somewhat limited in that you can only handle two of them that way, and you always have one smaller window docked alongside one bigger one. On the other hand, the apps are expected to be aware of this mode, and adapt their UI to the situation when they're docked as "small window" alongside the primary app.
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by Soul-Burn666 · 2011-09-13 09:22 · Score: 1

It's true that using only full-screen applications is bad when you want to cross-use them.
That's why the added the ability to tile two applications horizontally, which is what people usually do in these times.
I hope though, that they allow further tiling and not limiting it to 2 applications.

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^_^
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 09:38 · Score: 0

I've heard those ideas before a long, long time ago.
App Store: Back in my day, we used to go to an actual store and buy software on physical media.
Full-screen interface: It was called "DOS".
What's old is new again.
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by fahrbot-bot · 2011-09-13 10:32 · Score: 1

"Every single pixel of your beautiful screen is for your app," said Harris. "You're just immersed in the content."

That's probably the most stupid thing I've ever read. That guy is an idiot. Perhaps it's appropriate for a tiny, tiny (tiny) smartphone screen or watching video, but otherwise, no. For sufficiently large sizes of "screen", full-screen is unnecessary for most applications and down-right annoying for some. Full-screen browsing or Office anyone? Ya, immerse me in that content.

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It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by xhrit · 2011-09-13 11:24 · Score: 1

I normally run all my games in fullscreen...

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Dungeon Tactics : Free Open Source SRPG
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by Mr+Bubble · 2011-09-13 17:15 · Score: 2

Why does it have to be either or? People get so worried that everything is changing. It has been one way for ages and now there are other ways. I agree that it is cool, useful and necessary to have your apps all on screen and available, but there are definitely times when it is nice to have the option to work full screen - video editing, for example - something where you are engrossed in one thing and you don't want or need to see the clutter of the desktop and the other windows.

--
"The world is a construct of forceful imagination. Those who don't know walk around in the reailties of those who do"
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by Waccoon · 2011-09-13 19:03 · Score: 5, Informative

I think this push towards full-screen apps is a move backwards.
Only for us who know better. Unfortunately, we are not the target market, anymore. All I see all day at work is people swishing their middle fingers around on their smartphones, and they seem to love all this stuff.
From Firefox to Unity to Aero to Chrome to Ribbon to iAnything, everything released within the last 6 years has driven me nuts. I'm really trying to give this stuff a chance, but I just hate everything I come across. It was the obscure error messages and badly designed menus that confused people, not the taskbars, status bars, and maximize gadgets.
What really frightens me is that the Linux community is heading in this direction, too. WTF?
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by jimicus · 2011-09-13 19:41 · Score: 1

Can't say it convinces me myself, but you look at how so many people actually use their PC - only ever using one program at a time, maybe for hours on end - frankly, all the window-dressing of a task bar and window widgets does seem a bit wasted.
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by Just+Some+Guy · 2011-09-14 01:24 · Score: 1

What I'm questioning is whether any non-trivial task can really be accomplished using a single application.
Full-screen Emacs. Problem solved.

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Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Re:I don't believe it... well, OK, I do. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-14 02:03 · Score: 0

Oh get off it already. I use both Windows and OS X 10.7 Lion at work and have to support both at work and cannot stand when people start acting like MS is ripping off their UI from Apple. When Win 7 was released, we had Mac users here that stated "it looks just like Mac!" Bullshit. Hey, that Michelin looks just like that Firestone!

The most important new feature by gmuslera · 2011-09-13 06:08 · Score: 1

No more blue screen of death!

Re:The most important new feature by MrMatto · 2011-09-13 06:33 · Score: 1

It's still a BSOD!
Re:The most important new feature by hedwards · 2011-09-13 06:39 · Score: 1

lol, how did I know without clicking the link that they had "solved" the problem by changing the color. They really should have chosen a color that didn't start with the letter B though.
Re:The most important new feature by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 08:21 · Score: 0

Actually, it is the windows (file) explorer finally getting an "up" button.

What about .net support by mehrotra.akash · 2011-09-13 06:09 · Score: 0, Troll

I dont see any significant mention of .Net except the fact that silverlight apps wont work.

Any ideas on if .Net will work on/will be advanced in Windows 8?

Re:What about .net support by afidel · 2011-09-13 06:18 · Score: 1

Not only will it work but there are a lot of new API's that aren't yet available in Metro but are available through .Net.

--
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Re:What about .net support by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 06:25 · Score: 0

All metro apps can be written in any .NET language or JavaScript and HTML5. Watch the keynote at http://www.buildwindows.com/.
Re:What about .net support by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 06:25 · Score: 0

I don't know what you were listening to, but Silverlight and .NET were both mentioned in the keynote as supported. Hell, the new WinRT API is a .NET namespace. Silverlight was also mentioned, and is still supported for desktop apps (i.e. non-Metro). The difference now is that you can use C#/VB.NET/C++ and XAML to diretcly target WinRT
Re:What about .net support by mehrotra.akash · 2011-09-13 06:31 · Score: 1

I just read through the linked articles
Is there a text transcript anywhere? Dont have enough bandwidth for watching the entire video
Re:What about .net support by mehrotra.akash · 2011-09-13 06:32 · Score: 1

Is there a text transcript anywhere? Dont have enough bandwidth for watching the entire video
I only read through the linked articles
Re:What about .net support by nstlgc · 2011-09-13 06:32 · Score: 1

I'm surprised that you interpreted anything they said as "Silverlight apps won't work". They showed a Silverlight app running.

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I'm Rocco. I'm the +5 Funny man.
Re:What about .net support by mehrotra.akash · 2011-09-13 06:36 · Score: 2

From the article:
The full-screen Metro Style apps are likely to be web apps; the kind you would typically expect to find on a tablet. Things such as Twitter clients, video players and news readers, rather than full-blown desktop software such as Office or Photoshop.
Although they can be coded in conventional programming languages such as C and C++, they can also be created using standard web technologies such as HTML, CSS and JavaScript (but not, rather controversially, Microsoft’s own Silverlight). And because they are based on web technologies, they are the only applications that can be used across both the x86 and ARM-based versions of Windows 8 without any recompiling.
Guess I misinterpreted it
Re:What about .net support by Toonol · 2011-09-13 06:55 · Score: 1

I would be surprised if they don't end up with a version of .net that runs on ARM Windows. That's pretty much what that tech is FOR. They have it running on the 360, and that is a non-x86 processor.

Silverlight just never took off, and so there's no point in porting it. .Net is a different situation.
Re:What about .net support by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 08:33 · Score: 0

Uhh.. oh wait, I see you're marked as troll. Never mind.
Points to you for making me waste time click the reply link.
Re:What about .net support by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-09-13 09:17 · Score: 1

Any ideas on if .Net will work on/will be advanced in Windows 8?
Yes and yes. From Sinofsky's blog:
"We will show the brand new tools that allow you to code Metro style applications in HTML5/JavaScript, C/C++, and/or C#/XAML. The investments you have made as developers in all of these languages carry forward for Windows 8"
So, basically, .NET is still there, and it gets full access to all Metro APIs.

Performance Focus by ludomancer · 2011-09-13 06:09 · Score: 0

I wish, at the very least, they'd get over "improving boot/shutdown times", and make the performance of actual use better than, say, win98.
Their memory management is the WORST, and if you're an actual PC user, with heavy applications for graphics or simulation, the last several releases from this company must have crushed your productivity like it has mine.

Reboot faster! by Vrallis · 2011-09-13 06:09 · Score: 3, Funny

Just think about it... Microsoft has probably made the biggest improvement to their software in two decades... You can now reboot far faster than ever before! Just think about the time saved per week for your average Windows user!

Re:Reboot faster! by afidel · 2011-09-13 06:23 · Score: 1

My Windows 7 desktop has been up for 125 days and the last reboot was because I hook up a UPS after we had two power outages in a week.

--
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Re:Reboot faster! by Dunega · 2011-09-13 06:27 · Score: 1

10 or 15 seconds?
Re:Reboot faster! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 06:56 · Score: 0

Just think about it... Microsoft has probably made the biggest improvement to their software in two decades... You can now reboot far faster than ever before! Just think about the time saved per week for your average Windows user!
No average Windows user would make that comment.
Re:Reboot faster! by 0123456 · 2011-09-13 07:36 · Score: 1, Insightful

My Windows 7 desktop has been up for 125 days and the last reboot was because I hook up a UPS after we had two power outages in a week.
Malware writers must love you.
Re:Reboot faster! by jimmyfrank · 2011-09-13 07:39 · Score: 1

I don't reboot my W7 much, I guess that's a funny joke though :|
Re:Reboot faster! by afidel · 2011-09-13 07:45 · Score: 1

Why? I don't use IE, don't open random attachments, keep my browser up to date, sit behind a firewall, IDS/IPS, and filtering proxy server plus run a different AV package on my machine. I've never had any kind of malware infection or virus in 18 years of using computers online including a number of years of participating in the underground software world in my teenage years.

--
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Re:Reboot faster! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 10:39 · Score: 0

Which in the literal sense is near zero, as there are always plenty of other things that either should be done, or will be done, while waiting for a system to boot.
e.g. Getting cup of coffee/tea/etc., Saying good morning to boss/co-workers, Checking snail mail, (for those work from home types) Grabbing a shower, ...
Re:Reboot faster! by fahrbot-bot · 2011-09-13 10:39 · Score: 0

You can now reboot far faster than ever before!

Of course, I (and I suspect many others) only reboot if a patch/upgrade indicates that it's necessary.
Otherwise, my Linux (Desktop, MythTV) and Windows systems are on 24/7.
Perhaps Microsoft and general users think PC systems are toys not tools...

--
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Re:Reboot faster! by smi.james.th · 2011-09-13 18:44 · Score: 1

I'll believe this when I see it. They also claimed to have made XP boot so much faster compared to 2000, and while the screen for typing your password showed up pretty quick, once you did often things took ages before you could actually do any work. Anyone else remember this? That was one of the primary reasons I switched to a Gentoo box with Fluxbox for my UI. Booted in (what was at the time) an amazingly short time, and I could sit down and work as soon as I saw the picture on the screen.
Maybe Microsoft won't have made the same mistake this time.
FWIW, I'm not a big fan of the interfaces either. The novel picture-password idea is quite a cool one, though, I like that.

--
One thing I know, and that is that I am ignorant...

Re:Dear mehrotra.akash by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 06:09 · Score: 0

RTFA

Metro by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 06:09 · Score: 0

Seriously, who is going to want to use a GUI called 'Metro'? Or is this a ploy to attract Mac users back to Windows?

Looking good for such early code... by Goffee71 · 2011-09-13 06:15 · Score: 1

If it really does work across Intel, ARM, tablet and desktop as seamlessly as the demos show, then I'm sold. I like the low memory usage on older systems and Metro will be a barrel of laughs. Downloading the public developer code when it goes live today (http://www.cmswire.com/cms/enterprise-20/microsofts-build-conference-windows-8-blowout-bldwin-012681.php)

--
If he's the Walrus then can I be a penguin please?

Re:Looking good for such early code... by Yvan256 · 2011-09-13 06:23 · Score: 1

From what I've read on that page, only HTML+CSS+Javascript apps will be compatible with both x86 and ARM.
Re:Looking good for such early code... by 0123456 · 2011-09-13 06:26 · Score: 1

From what I've read on that page, only HTML+CSS+Javascript apps will be compatible with both x86 and ARM.
Isn't this what we used to call 'a web page'?
Re:Looking good for such early code... by lucidlyTwisted · 2011-09-13 07:34 · Score: 1

And, sure as x is x, these 'pages' will require libraries/extensions that can only be found in Windows/IE.
Does anyone really expect MS to follow standards?
Re:Looking good for such early code... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 08:35 · Score: 0

They already demonstrated it in the keynote, it is straight HTML5/Javascript/CSS with vendor-prefixed extensions in CSS and an object model available to Javascript. Providing such extensions is covered in the standards. Or do you feel that all of the -moz-, -o- and -webkit- extensions used to implement the non-standard CSS3 are also evil?
Re:Looking good for such early code... by Amouth · 2011-09-13 09:12 · Score: 1

or you know.. you could always cross compile..

--
'...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
Re:Looking good for such early code... by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-09-13 09:20 · Score: 1

You can use all available technologies to target Win8 on ARM - C++ and .NET are also fully supported.
Re:Looking good for such early code... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 11:42 · Score: 0

Yes, yes they are evil. So are non standard Javascript extensions. It creates... wait for it... Lock in.
Re:Looking good for such early code... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 15:00 · Score: 0

Do you have a cite for this? I've been looking for any indications that Microsoft was indeed providing some form of CLR on the ARM builds, whether that be the full framework, the compact framework or the Silverlight framework. I gathered from the sessions that C++ was definitely supported on ARM, and of course the HTML5/JS Metro stuff, but if the CLR is also on that list I would be quite happy.
Re:Looking good for such early code... by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-09-13 15:43 · Score: 1

I'm sorry, I can't find any specific quote that would nail it down. That said, the dev docs are now up, and something along these lines might be there. The best I can see so far is this, which simply says "Your Metro style apps run equally well on ARM, x86, and x64 architectures". Note that Metro is not just HTML5/JS - it is available to all three languages/platforms, so you can write Metro apps in JS, or C++, or .NET (or mix them as you see fit).
Anyway, trust me on that. It shouldn't really be surprising, to be honest, given that a trimmed CLR version ran on ARM for ages, on WinMo and then also on WP7 - so it's not like this was done completely from scratch.
For Metro apps, it won't be the full framework, though. It's a more trimmed subset, closest to what Silverlight gets.

Windows 8 Metro by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2011-09-13 06:17 · Score: 3, Funny

Can we refer to Windows 8 users as Metrosexuals?

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#DeleteChrome

Re:Windows 8 Metro by OzPeter · 2011-09-13 06:32 · Score: 4, Funny

Can we refer to Windows 8 users as Metrosexuals?
Well with all that prodding and touching and caressing of the screens they certainly are some kind of "sexuals"

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I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
Re:Windows 8 Metro by sweatyboatman · 2011-09-13 06:35 · Score: 1

no

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It breaks my pluginses, my precious!
Re:Windows 8 Metro by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 07:05 · Score: 0

I thought apple had that segment all for themselfs.
Re:Windows 8 Metro by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 07:40 · Score: 0

and guys using pre windows 95 stuff are retrosexuals....ie manly.
Re:Windows 8 Metro by Rizimar · 2011-09-13 08:41 · Score: 1

Only if they enjoy Microsoftcore porno, I suppose.
Re:Windows 8 Metro by fahrbot-bot · 2011-09-13 10:43 · Score: 1

Well with all that prodding and touching and caressing of the screens they certainly are some kind of "sexuals"

Probably where MS got the idea for squirting with the zune.

--
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Re:Windows 8 Metro by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 12:03 · Score: 0

Wanna touch my PCtorials?
Re:Windows 8 Metro by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 14:05 · Score: 0

Can we refer to Windows 8 users as Metrosexuals?
Isn't that already reserved for Mac users? ...or is that Homosexuals?
Re:Windows 8 Metro by dotancohen · 2011-09-13 19:35 · Score: 1

The name was obviously chosen to appeal sexually to the young, homosexual crowd that Apple appeals to while seeming benignly innocent to those who are outside that circle.

--
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.

ONE WORD FOR WINDOWS 8: by Jeremiah+Cornelius · 2011-09-13 06:17 · Score: 1

WINNING!

--
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."

Re:ONE WORD FOR WINDOWS 8: by amliebsch · 2011-09-13 06:33 · Score: 1

WININATE!

--
If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
Re:ONE WORD FOR WINDOWS 8: by Jeremiah+Cornelius · 2011-09-13 06:50 · Score: 1

"We circled back to reconnoitre the target zone, and confirmed that the objective had been wininated."
"My inbox has ben wininated with spam and bullshit marketing"
"Hey! My laptop turned into media center. I don't need to be wininated by th ef*cking date and weather."

--
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Re:ONE WORD FOR WINDOWS 8: by PwnzerDragoon · 2011-09-13 06:50 · Score: 1

WIN.COM!
Re:ONE WORD FOR WINDOWS 8: by thegreatbob · 2011-09-13 06:52 · Score: 1

The depth of this thread does not necessarily reflect the depth of its content...and Charlie Sheen should change his catchphrase to WHINING!

--
There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
Re:ONE WORD FOR WINDOWS 8: by AngryNick · 2011-09-13 09:27 · Score: 1

See also, BOB
Re:ONE WORD FOR WINDOWS 8: by ozmanjusri · 2011-09-13 10:26 · Score: 1

If it has the usual Microsoft bloat, we'll be calling it W-Eight...

--
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."

Interesting by Pop69 · 2011-09-13 06:18 · Score: 1

So to make the most of the default new interface I would have to find some way of making my 32" HD monitor a touchscreen ?

Did big touch screens suddenly become cheap when I wasn't looking or is this just a way to push tech for monitor manufacturers seeing as 3d TV isn't working sales as well as they thought ?

Re:Interesting by tepples · 2011-09-13 06:56 · Score: 1

One could use a Kinect sensor (USB) or Wii Remote (Bluetooth) as an input device for a touch-style user interface.
Re:Interesting by Darinbob · 2011-09-13 07:36 · Score: 1

But why would someone want to? Touch screens are not more useable, the only reason they're on these computer-wannabe tablets is because they have no keyboards or mice and the touch screen is the fallback. Handy for pocket devices or when you're idea of computing is browsing the web with a few clicks here and there but absolutely abysmal for doing work that requires a lot of input. Even the mouse is bad for that.
Re:Interesting by tepples · 2011-09-13 07:51 · Score: 1

or when you're idea of computing is browsing the web with a few clicks here and there
The kind of web browsing that would be done from a sofa on a 32" HD monitor would likely amount to "browsing the web with a few clicks here and there". At least that's how Internet Channel powered by Opera works on a Wii console: use the Wii Remote as a mouse and either an on-screen keyboard or a USB keyboard.
Re:Interesting by terjeber · 2011-09-13 09:20 · Score: 1

Or you could RTFA and not make your self look like the fool you actually are.

Another $99 per year certificate by tepples · 2011-09-13 06:18 · Score: 1

Furthermore, from the article:

Microsoft will sell both the new Metro apps and conventional desktop software via its own App Store. Indeed, that will be the only way you can get hold of Metro Style apps.

Given what Microsoft already requires for Xbox Live Indie Games and Windows Phone 7, it'll probably be yet another $99 per year certificate for a developer to renew each year.

And more important by Sycraft-fu · 2011-09-13 06:20 · Score: 3, Insightful

Why the fuck would we want that on a desktop? Part of what makes a desktop system so useful is having multiple things open that you can switch between, position around, and so on. Right now I have my browser up on top of my primary window, but my e-mail client hiding behind it. I can see when new mail comes in. On my secondary monitor is the interface for our digital security system so I can watch over the cameras. There are a few other things loaded and running, but the windows are occluded at the moment. I don't want to be "immersed" in any of this shit. The ability to have multiple things going is why I like my desktop, it's why I have 4 cores, 8GB of memory and north of 4 million pixels of total display.

I do not get this obsession with trying to make computers work like phones. No, bad idea. When I heard of what they were doing with Lion I said "What a horrible idea." Now MS is doing the same? What the fuck? How about you give me a phone interface on a phone and a computer interface on a computer?

Re:And more important by jimicus · 2011-09-13 06:38 · Score: 2

I do not get this obsession with trying to make computers work like phones. No, bad idea. When I heard of what they were doing with Lion I said "What a horrible idea." Now MS is doing the same? What the fuck?
Must confess I'm using Lion myself and I'm not particularly convinced. Fullscreen works well when the app designer has thought about how their application will function in fullscreen. (Safari is OK, NeoOffice in its infinite wisdom thinks that when I say fullscreen, I mean "so full I can't easily change any formatting without switching out of fullscreen mode"). There's a number of other glitches that I won't go into or we'll be here all evening.
In terms of MS doing the same, that's easily explained. The one thing that Microsoft have always excelled at is spotting a bandwagon - or something they think is a bandwagon - and jumping on it late. They've spent the better part of thirty years doing that (seriously, I promise you there's not a single product in Microsoft's entire range that doesn't somehow hark back to someone else's product. Hell, trace back Microsoft Paint to the Windows 3.x days and you have something that to a casual observer is damn-near identical to ZSoft Paintbrush).
Re:And more important by jo_ham · 2011-09-13 07:02 · Score: 2

It's very simple - not everyone (in fact, I'd imagine that the vast majority of computer users) are like us, which is why the "Full Screen Richness" is optional. On Lion a full screen app doesn't have to be run that way.
They have some tweaking to do (scrollbars really need their arrows back), but they have added an interface that makes the computer easier to use for dedicated tasks, and a way to easily get to them and swap between them.
You're not forced to use it that way, but the option is there because not everyone wants to be juggling multiple apps at the same time. Just because that's traditionally how computers haven been doesn't mean it has to be the only way.
I personally do not use any of the full screen app capability in Lion - I work similarly to you (and I use Hide almost exclusively to quickly flip between stacks of windows) but we are not the target demographic for that feature.
Re:And more important by JRowe47 · 2011-09-13 08:20 · Score: 1

It's the other way around. Having both modes available on all devices means you can develop for phones while on the desktop and have a reasonable idea of how it works. The idea isn't that you'll use the phone mode while on a desktop, but that you'll dock your phone and use it like a desktop in certain situations, and that way developers don't have to wrangle their GUI into some sort of mobile form factor - you can just switch modes and use it like it should be presented.
Re:And more important by terjeber · 2011-09-13 09:16 · Score: 1

Why not just Read the FA and not make a fool out of your self?
Re:And more important by exomondo · 2011-09-13 13:01 · Score: 1

seriously, I promise you there's not a single product in Microsoft's entire range that doesn't somehow hark back to someone else's product.
And this is different from other tech companies how?

Huh? by kakyoin01 · 2011-09-13 06:21 · Score: 1

This has got to be the most stupid thing Microsoft has done since they launched the Kin.

The what? I've never even heard of the Kin until now. Can I reward you for providing information on this splendidly hip device by paying you in bitcoins?

--
The more you know, the more you have to say and the more you should listen.

Re:Huh? by GameboyRMH · 2011-09-13 07:04 · Score: 1

Look up the "Zune" for a chuckle.

--
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Re:Huh? by ooshna · 2011-09-13 07:28 · Score: 1

Hey I own a Zune HD and it is hella better than the gen of iPod Nanos that were out at the time and comparable in price.
Re:Huh? by GameboyRMH · 2011-09-13 07:32 · Score: 2

That's like defending your purchase of a Pinto by saying it was better than a Lada.

--
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Re:Huh? by Toonol · 2011-09-13 07:51 · Score: 2

The Zune was a decent device, as good or better than its competition at the time. It was just a huge failure of marketing. Reminds me a bit of some of the Android tablets going against Apple right now, actually.
Re:Huh? by Hamsterdan · 2011-09-13 14:56 · Score: 1

But... But... But they made it in brown...

--
I've got better things to do tonight than die.
Re:Huh? by bryan1945 · 2011-09-13 15:17 · Score: 1

I find your lack of obedience to shit-colored appliances disturbing....

--
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.

Small question by Yvan256 · 2011-09-13 06:21 · Score: 2

They say we'll be able to make "Metro" applications with HTML, CSS and Javascript. Does that mean we won't even need Windows to make Windows Apps?

Re:Small question by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 07:16 · Score: 0

No it doesn't... It means they will be selling a very expensive editing tool that generates and emits HTML, CSS and javascript is some weird oddly familiar yet completely confusing proprietary file format...
Re:Small question by Temposs · 2011-09-13 07:22 · Score: 1

I don't have any further knowledge of the Metro interface, but I would have to assume that to be of much use or to make it look decent, you'd have to use Windows-specific hooks in their implementation of HTML/CSS and Javascript.

--
Knowledge is just opinion that you trust enough to act upon. -Orson Scott Card
Re:Small question by jimmyfrank · 2011-09-13 07:41 · Score: 1

Actually no, they showed a demo, looked pretty straight forward to me.
Re:Small question by tepples · 2011-09-13 08:10 · Score: 1

I imagine that "JavaScript" in this case won't be limited to the HTML DOM. There will probably be some sort of proprietary API used to access parts of a user account that a web page is ordinarily not supposed to be able to access. So yes, you'll probably need a PC running Windows 8 to run Metro applications as well as to hold the rented certificate used to sign your own Metro applications for execution.
Re:Small question by Eirenarch · 2011-09-13 08:12 · Score: 1

Sure if you know the Windows APIs by heart and don't need to test or if you only need GUI without calling any API.
Re:Small question by terjeber · 2011-09-13 09:21 · Score: 1

Eh, no.
Re:Small question by terjeber · 2011-09-13 09:22 · Score: 1

Eh, no. Sorry, you are wrong.
Re:Small question by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-09-13 09:24 · Score: 1

You can, technically, do that, but you will be restricted by what you can do with portable HTML5/CSS3/JS (and then also by what subset of that IE10 supports). If you want more integration (like, say, having your HTML5 app added to one of those "send to" lists, or live tiles, or other platform-specific functionality), you'll need to use the object model extensions, and then to test those you'll need Win8.
Re:Small question by tepples · 2011-09-13 09:31 · Score: 1

Which parts of my comment are incorrect?
Re:Small question by terjeber · 2011-09-13 09:42 · Score: 1

Almost all of them. The JavaScript apps are HTML5. You need something similar to vi to write them. You can use the HTML features like local storage etc. You will probably need a dev membership to sell them in the Microsoft Marketplace however. If you need to use Windows features you should write in C, C++ or .NET.
Re:Small question by aitan · 2011-09-13 10:00 · Score: 1

According to http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/09/13/welcome-to-windows-8-the-developer-preview.aspx you can keep on coding in c+ + or c#
They might show more things this week
Re:Small question by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 10:26 · Score: 0

In the keynote this morning they showed building a HTML/CSS interface and then accessing the Windows API via JavaScript to call a file picker and do other local system tricks. They were very adamant that all languages' API access were on par with each other, so I'd assume you'd be able to do most things a standard app could. All of this is "complied" in to a new app package format that will only run on Windows.
Not advocating that any of this is a good idea, just parroting what I heard.
Re:Small question by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 12:05 · Score: 0

As long as you're hosting it on windows server and IIS, and don't mind eating the bandwidth... pretty much yeah.
Re:Small question by cbhacking · 2011-09-13 15:02 · Score: 1

You don't even need Windows today. It's a little awkward using a cross-compiler, but not *that* hard. C# and VB.NET apps can be coded and compiled using Mono. For that matter, Windows has supported "HTML Applications" written using HTML, CSS, and JavaScript for years now, though nobody much uses them.
On the other hand, to use the new "Windows Runtime" Win8 APIs that make these new apps really integrate with the OS, you'll want at least a reference guide. Building the pieces into an app package, testing it, and submitting it to the app store all probably won't be possible until Wine catches up.

--
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...

Every other release by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 06:25 · Score: 0

Trying to cram it into an arbitrary pattern.
The reality was:

9x based: Blue screen era. Absolutely terrible.
Windows 2000 - Solid enough
XP - Polished 2k. Had a good innings
Vista - Crap
7 - Polished Vista
8 - Stopped caring, switched to linux

I hate change... by WaffleMonster · 2011-09-13 06:27 · Score: 1

I don't need backwards gimmicky UI concepts that look like total crap (WP7) or apple style lockin hell app stores and I have zero interest of any kind in touching my monitor. It looks gross enough as it is.

If the new UI can't be turned off and I mean turned the hell **off** then no sale.

Progress to me is defined as enabling me to get crap done. Distraction and game playing (not keeping your designers on their leashes) is not progress -- it is a waste of everyones time.

Re:I hate change... by jimmyfrank · 2011-09-13 07:44 · Score: 1

Of course it can be turned off, funny thing, I learned that by watching the keynote. W8 looks pretty sweet and I'm a developer. Will I use the UI, no, but I'll happily write applications for users that do use the UI.

If Apple fans are hipsters... by FellowConspirator · 2011-09-13 06:28 · Score: 1

... then Windows 8 fans can only be Metrosexuals.

Dear mehrotra.akash by nstlgc · 2011-09-13 06:30 · Score: 1

Windows 8 is not an OS for a 22 inch smartphone

Please dont treat it like one

--
I'm Rocco. I'm the +5 Funny man.

Re:Dear mehrotra.akash by Spunkee · 2011-09-13 08:40 · Score: 0

LOL! You're fucking sig. Brilliant!
"I'll have a Coke, then."

It's just another WMC by MrMatto · 2011-09-13 06:32 · Score: 1

Media Center never replaced the Windows Explorer and this won't either. They will just make it an option to boot to Explorer or to boot to the Windows Phone OS. They can make this the default interface for retail disc installs if they want but there is nothing stop end users, admins or OEMs from setting it up to boot from Explorer.

Re:It's just another WMC by roc97007 · 2011-09-13 09:22 · Score: 1

Is it *another* WMC or is it precisely WMC, with a few tweaks, renamed?

--
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Re:It's just another WMC by MrMatto · 2011-09-14 02:23 · Score: 1

I bet that they turn WMC into a Metro app now.

Here's what they should have done... by swan5566 · 2011-09-13 06:35 · Score: 1

Instead of a touchscreen interface, do it with Kinect. Even if it fails horribly, imagine... the corporate world having to suddenly get off their fat butts and dance around like apes for 8 hours a day. Obesity in America - now only a problem with Apple users.

--
In debates about Christianity, there are two groups: those looking for answers, and those looking to just ask questions.

Re:Here's what they should have done... by lucidlyTwisted · 2011-09-13 07:30 · Score: 1

It would not surprise me to find out that this is on the cards. Expect to see monitors with embedded Kinect soon....

This is the most cynism I've seen on /. in a while by Joshua+Fan · 2011-09-13 06:36 · Score: 1

Microsoft sees the future of computing interfaces and is actually moving towards it. Large buttons makes mousing faster and easier anyway. Windows 8 is gonna support mouse+keyboard, touch and stylus equally fully, no holds barred. OS X is going to have some catching up to do.

So little detail by jsm18 · 2011-09-13 06:44 · Score: 1

It seems odd that the only screen shots show very little utility. How do you use Excel in the Metro interface? Word? Does everything just default to full screen? Based on the screen shots, apparently Microsoft thinks people spend half of their time looking at the screensaver with the current temperature overlaid on top of it.

Post PC world and UI by hilldog · 2011-09-13 06:44 · Score: 1

I'm seriously wondering if any of this will matter in a few more years. The PC becomes the tablet becomes the smart phone becomes the cloud becomes the....what exactly? We demand total integration with all our gadgets so it is inevitable that the first OS to fully do that wins. I totally expect to see integration between Windows and Linux soon and I'm not talking WINE.

Metro UI video by OzPeter · 2011-09-13 06:48 · Score: 1

Because TFS had no real details on what Metro looked like, I went hunting on youtube to find something. I came up with Windows8 Metro UI OS of the Future-Preview-Computex-2011

But when I watch the video it seems to me that the visuals are running about 30% faster than the sound. I don't know if it is my computer (never seen this before with youtube).

I am also amused that a guy is supposedly running the demo, but that the user name/profile is a womans - perhaps we all get to share the one login??? lol

--
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?

Re:Metro UI video by Anomalyst · 2011-09-13 07:52 · Score: 1

a guy is supposedly running the demo, but that the user name/profile is a womans
That is not a guy, it is a Metrosexual

--
There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
Re:Metro UI video by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 17:13 · Score: 0

That is because the program manager for Windows 8 is a woman. That picture with the kids in that demo is her son. She is on another video. The guy in that one you listed is the manager of the R&D and gui design. She is his boss.

FAIL by vinn · 2011-09-13 06:49 · Score: 1

'nuff said.

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----- obSig

Re:FAIL by Spunkee · 2011-09-13 09:23 · Score: 0

'nuff said.
Wow, how fucking insightful. I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

still DOS underneath by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 06:53 · Score: 0

doesn't matter, still DOS underneath all those fancy UI layers.

Re:still DOS underneath by Kalriath · 2011-09-13 16:12 · Score: 1

No, no it isn't. And it hasn't been for 11 years.

--
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".

Good Sir! by CFBMoo1 · 2011-09-13 07:01 · Score: 2

'Jensen Harris, director of program management for the Windows Experience. "Every screen needs to be touch. A monitor without touch feels dead."' I applaud your efforts to make a more modular windows. I think it's a long time coming and I'm glad to see you move in a more compartmentalized direction. One problem, you may argue all you want that my monitor is dead, however I would point out that I can at least read it. Unlike your touch screen, my monitor has none of the crud and filth that fingers put on keyboards and mice like your touch screen has. When you learn how to make a desktop interface, you may be installed on my hard drive. Until then you are dismissed like Gnome and Unity will be from my DESKTOP hard drive. Good day sir!

--
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~

Re:Good Sir! by gmhowell · 2011-09-13 13:07 · Score: 1

While greasy Unix neckbeards may smear grease everywhere their Cheetos encrusted fingers touch, some of us are familiar with the rudiments of personal hygiene and don't leave a slime trail reminiscent of a snail. In other news, that thing you found between your toes? NOT a good between meal snack, hacker opinions to the contrary.

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Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon

Touch? by dragon-file · 2011-09-13 07:01 · Score: 0

"Every screen needs to be touch. A monitor without touch feels dead." Are they serious? I mean, touch screens are great in locations where you don't have to room or space to have a keyboard(Phones Tablets), but i don't want to have to put my hands all over the screen of my desktop and laptop monitors. Am i the only one who feels this way?

--
Whenever a player quits EVE to go play WoW, the Average IQ of both games increase.

Windows on ARM by thegreatbob · 2011-09-13 07:13 · Score: 1

Given the cheapness of ARM hardware, I see no reason why a $50 all-in-one computer wouldn't be possible, aside from the historical greediness of the software vendors, LCD manufacturers, etc...

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There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...

Will Windows 8 vista? by QuietLagoon · 2011-09-13 07:14 · Score: 1

All versions of Windows 8 — whether used on a touchscreen device or not — will use the operating system's new Metro interface

I thought that Microsoft had learned its lesson with Windows Vista, and would not try to pull the "Microsoft knows best, customers know nothing" approach on its customers again.

how quickly we forget... by Lead+Butthead · 2011-09-13 07:14 · Score: 1

Mac OS (yes, the 68k OS) were considered stable every other release as well; all the odd major numbered OS always requires endless number of patches (keep in mind that back then, there was no broadband to ease patch distribution.) With the exception of OS8 (which was released to get out of contracts with Mac clone makers,) even numbered versioned OSes were considered more "mature" than the odd numbered versioned OSes.

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ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?

Re:how quickly we forget... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 12:28 · Score: 0

Mac OS (yes, the 68k OS) were considered stable every other release as well; all the odd major numbered OS always requires endless number of patches (keep in mind that back then, there was no broadband to ease patch distribution.) With the exception of OS8 (which was released to get out of contracts with Mac clone makers,) even numbered versioned OSes were considered more "mature" than the odd numbered versioned OSes.
Horseshit. It took a good long while to get 6.x stable. Version 5.x didn't exist. You're just making stuff up.
Re:how quickly we forget... by bryan1945 · 2011-09-13 15:33 · Score: 1

Really need to get rid of Anon Cowards who don't know shit that can be found on Widipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mac_OS
Moron.

--
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
Re:how quickly we forget... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 16:59 · Score: 0

So it was available for approximately 6 months. Irrelevant and immaterial product. For all practical purposes, System went from 4 to 6. And six sucked for quite a while.
Moron.

Well by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 07:16 · Score: 0

As long as i dont't have to use an iFag OS i'm happy.

Worst summary EVERY by Billly+Gates · 2011-09-13 07:18 · Score: 1

What a load of garbage and all anti MS biased.

Ars Technica is in the process of writting review for those who prefer the old explorer. MS made it quite clear both GUIs will be used.

The screenshots of the new task manager and explorer are cleary not Metro.

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http://saveie6.com/

The "Shell = " line, here... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 07:25 · Score: 0

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon

* Change Shell variable value string from the std. name in Windows 8 to the new shell executable path... in this case, the "oldie", explorer.exe (assuming that STILL EXISTS in Windows 8 that is, but, I am fairly certain it will).

APK

P.S.=> I used to do this back in Windows 3.x while in college for my CSC coursework, & there, since the lab was ALWAYS "LOADED"? Well, one day, I decided to create a 'custom password protected shell' on my fav. workstation computer @ the college I was going to, using iirc, win.ini (not system.ini though I am pretty sure, but it's been AGES)... & the head of the dept. had a DOS security program in place called "IronClad" which protected DOS 5.x-6.x, but NOT Windows! He wanted a system designed that would compensate, so I wrote it (easy too, but, this is where KNOWING YOUR OS, helps a programmer, & a LOT).

Only 1 guy figured it out, but, he could NOT remove it because we assigned win.ini protection under DOS/IronClad so you could not just bypass entering Windows by avoiding autoexec.bat via shift key press @ startup... it actually worked!

Funniest part is, the guy who figured out what I was doing also was the only other guy hired besides myself after that semester into the Fortune 500, by Goulds Pumps, circa 1993-1994... he was, and still is, a "smart cookie" (millionaire now too I am fairly certain as well).

I built the 'custom password protected shell' from VB3, which could launch the Windows GUI workspace usermode for you...

All it did was check if the password was equal to the hardcoded one I gave it, & then IF match? It would kick on progman.exe (oldstyle program manager from Win3.x & NT 3.5x, the precursor to Explorer.exe shell really))...

... apk

Re:The "Shell = " line, here... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 07:45 · Score: 0

> diagnoses and claims to have solved problem by telling people to modify the registry.
> issues caveat that solution will only work "assuming something I have no idea of the existence of still exists in Windows 8"
Oh APK, you never cease to amuse.
Don't forget to flog your shitty HOST FILE solution for spyware. That never gets old, either.

ood ergonomics would seem to dictate... by lucidlyTwisted · 2011-09-13 07:29 · Score: 1

...that the screen be about 63cm away (some would say over 110cm, a safe-ish bet is beyond arms-reach), otherwise your eyes suffer.
Windows will now demand I have a touch-screen (even though I have all these 'keys' and a mouse thingy and a tablet doofer and...)
This means that the screen must be within arms-reach (and and quite possible within the resting point of vergence for the eyes).
Screw. That.
I have got nothing against touch-screens in the right use case (e.g. a kiosk) where I will use them briefly but on my desktop?

I try to keys my fingers on the keys and keep the work going. Having to reach up and stab at a too-close screen sounds horrific. Expect shoulder RSI cliams to follow.

Windows 8! The Ubuntu 11.04 of ntoskrnl distros.

Have YOU noticed what I have doing that? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 07:35 · Score: 0

That the "good ole' classic" shell interface using explorer.exe, ALONG WITH not using AERO GLASS, actually responds/acts faster than it does using AeroGlass FX? I have...

( &, I do just what you do, classic desktop, + for one reason: Better Speed/Performance... )

APK

P.S.=> Yes, I really & honestly DO find that using the "classic desktop", oldstyle XP/Server 2003's Explorer.exe shell MINUS "AeroGlass FX", seems to be MORE RESPONSIVE/FASTER than the default AeroGlass Effects setup is on MANY things...

... apk

Re:Have YOU noticed what I have doing that? by Your.Master · 2011-09-13 07:48 · Score: 1

Depends on your hardware. A lot of composited stuff in applications has to do a software fallback if you take off Aero Glass, and so it eats different resources.
Re:Have YOU noticed what I have doing that? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 08:12 · Score: 1

First, when you use the classic desktop, it automatically disables Aero so I don't know why you are speaking about them as if they were separate.
Secondly, using Aero is almost always going to provide better performance because the entire UI is offloaded to the GPU. When you use classic desktop, your CPU has to handle everything. It's like comparing the performance of Direct3D/OpenGL vs software rendering in a game. The only time I can think that classic desktop might seem faster is if you have a really old GPU, because even a moderately modern Intel IGP will handle Aero just fine.

Metro? really? by Locutus · 2011-09-13 07:37 · Score: 1

Because Microsoft software has not been compared enough times to the auto industry.

I'm wondering if this 'Best Windows Ever'-tm is destined to be the Metro Round-about with no usable inlets or outlets. Or just a tiny funny thing some people use like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy8wxQ4aJo8

LoB

--
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus

Re:Metro? really? by omnichad · 2011-09-13 08:03 · Score: 1

Who knows, maybe they'll buy up GEOS, and release it as GeoMetro.
Re:Metro? really? by Locutus · 2011-09-13 10:47 · Score: 1

lol. I was going to say something about it being compact but I just read that Windows 8 is officially stated to run on hardware which currently runs Windows 7. so it's not really compact but it will be slow on low end CPU's an small memory amounts.

still, GeoMetro cracked me up. thx

LoB

--
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus

Slashdot: The Microsoft Channel by Mike · 2011-09-13 07:50 · Score: 0

More and more each day, stories are posted on Slashdot about details of Microsoft-related products. Fifteen years ago, such a thing would have been unheard of. My, how things have changed!

Re:You think Windows 7 is excellent??? by Skarecrow77 · 2011-09-13 07:51 · Score: 2

I find Windows 7 to be a better overall computing experience than XP, Vista, and Ubuntu 9.04 and 10.04, which were the 4 operating systems I had running across various systems at the time I tried out 7. I made 7 one of my dual boot options on my primary system not long after that, and recently I reformatted the HD as I wanted to reclaim the full space into a single partition as I found I was only booting into the other OS about once every few months.

I don't know where you got the Idea that there exists any OS without several pages of google results for "OS problems". I've never used one, and I started with dos 3.2, and have used almost everything since, including such outlier gems as NT 4. Windows 7 has fewer problems for me on a day to day basis than any other OS I've ever used compared to the amount I use it. maybe some other OS marketing team coined the phrase "it just works", but that really is my experience with win7. Nothing's crashing. nothing's blue screening. no programs are doing weird shit for no reason. nothing's claiming security problems or rights issues. no malware or viruses. it detects hardware and auto-configures absurdly well. I could chalk it up to being lucky, but I've got two different systems (a desktop and a laptop) that both run very well on the OS, no matter what I throw at it. Hell it usually runs older software better than older OSes!

perhaps your experience is different than mine, but everybody I talk to seems to share the same opinion. This post may sound like MS fanboyism, but I assure you that I was unhappy enough with MS's offerings to go to linux as my main OS for a good period of time. They've done a lot of backwards shit in the past, but I've got nothing but praise for Windows 7. The worst thing I can say about it is it's UNC file sharing is difficult to get working correctly.

New and exciting viri and malware vectors..... by FlyingGuy · 2011-09-13 07:53 · Score: 1

Metro Style apps can, for example, talk to one another. Pictures stored in a photo app can be easily shared with a social networking app. Likewise, you can click the “share” button whilst in Internet Explorer 10, and post a link to straight to a Twitter or email client. “Two apps can share data between them, without the two apps knowing anything about one another,” said Jensen Harris, Microsoft’s director of program management.

That is what should make you run for cover.

--
Hey KID! Yeah you, get the fuck off my lawn!

Re:New and exciting viri and malware vectors..... by omnichad · 2011-09-13 08:05 · Score: 1

OLE part II.

Ticking the boxes by Yuioup · 2011-09-13 08:03 · Score: 1

What Windows 8 is, is Microsoft ticking the boxes:

Integrated search in UI: Check
Touch interface: Check
HTML5 + JavaScript: Check
Integrated Cloud Services: Check

When I watched the keynote I had a sense of déjà vu because basically Windows 8 is exactly what Ubuntu is supposed to be.

Windows XB by tepples · 2011-09-13 08:04 · Score: 1

Microsoft's stated aim is "One OS for all devices".

Let me know when Microsoft brings out "Windows XB" for its next video game console and one can run XNA Game Studio directly on it.

Advice on Silverlight project now underway by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 08:05 · Score: 0

Your brutally honest comments are requested...our shop is building client apps (Banker and Wall Street type users) with lots of data grids, accounting, stock tickers, etc. We are doing them in Silverlight inside of the browser. These are not marketing websites; there is no streaming video; these are mission-critical business apps. What kinds of issues are we going to face in 6, 12, 18 months because of Win8, IE9, etc. Are there going to be any Silverlight devs around in 18 mos? Should we just junk it and go with HTML/JS? Thanks.

Re:Advice on Silverlight project now underway by JRowe47 · 2011-09-13 15:44 · Score: 1

Junk it and go with HTML/JS. It's going to be automatically portable, debugging will be easier, and you'll see better performance and stability, with steady development. Silverlight is going to be maintained, for sure, but the browser wars ensure a steady rate of progress and bugfixes, whereas M$ can afford to ignore Silverlight and release on it's own timetable.
Bundle the apps for android and iOS and you leverage those markets as well. Silverlight is a toy.

Fisher Price legal action ? by Zoxed · 2011-09-13 08:05 · Score: 1

Yooww: I had not seen the Metro interface before: I can just see Fisher Price firing up their lawyers with prior-art !!

$99 per year by tepples · 2011-09-13 08:06 · Score: 1

You heard of the app store first probably with some Linux distribution in the 1990s.

Did Linux distributions charge the maintainer of a free software project $99 per year for inclusion and restrict even the owner of a machine from installing applications not included in the repository without ponying up $99 per year for access to gcc?

Re:$99 per year by DeathFromSomewhere · 2011-09-13 08:45 · Score: 1

restrict even the owner of a machine from installing applications not included in the repository
Who said anything about doing that?

$99 per year for access to gcc?
What the fuck are you talking about?

--
-1 overrated isn't the same thing as "I disagree".

Re:You think Windows 7 is excellent??? by BatGnat · 2011-09-13 08:08 · Score: 1

Another AC trolling...

Desktop as an app? Don't we already have that? by AlphaZeta · 2011-09-13 08:09 · Score: 1

Ironically, the concept of "desktop as an application" is nothing but new. If you go to your task manager and kill the explorer process, you can get your full desktop without the task bar in pretty much any versions of Windows. Hack, this sometimes happens automatically when I had to kill the unresponsive desktop.

I dunno by Sycraft-fu · 2011-09-13 08:13 · Score: 1

Dual monitors are something that are real, REAL popular in the workplace. Heck I was late in the game in getting them, all our secretaries, accountants, and so on had them before I did. Likewise tons 'o shit being open is the norm for people in the workplace. It isn't "one app only".

Now is it different at home? Could be, but lets remember that business is a mainstay of Microsoft. They make a ton of money there and it is something that helps them keep their prominent position.

This seems like something that will really piss business customers off.

Re:I dunno by jo_ham · 2011-09-13 08:28 · Score: 1

Yes, which is why I o back to my earlier point about it being optional. Just because they are adding things that cater to home users/less advanced users does not mean they are exclusively focusing on that.
Windows 7 has been a success for them, but they want more than just power users and people who muddle through - they want to make it accessible to more people.
Re:I dunno by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-09-13 09:09 · Score: 1

Hence why there's the classic desktop mode.
IIRC, Metro will only take up one screen on a multi-monitor config even if you keep it open. Though I don't really see myself using that much at work. Classic desktop, of course, works same as before on multimon.
The only missing bit in classic desktop is the old start menu. There's no way to disable "Start" button opening Metro home screen that I know of, at least for now. A possible workaround would be to write an app that can be docked next to "Start" and, when clicked, emulate the traditional menu; it's probably what I'll end up doing if this stays for RTM.

I don't just stop "themes" service though by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 08:17 · Score: 0

I entirely DROP using the graphics card (afaik) GPU to render the desktop via DirectX, & instead, opt to go the "oldschool" route of Win32 + GDI graphics subsystems!

(NO, not just when you drop the themes service + deskop Windows Manager/Session Manager service, & get sort of a "mix" between actual CLASSIC (XP/Server 2003 style) desktop explorer.exe shell - more like the "Windows 7 BASIC" theme results from THAT, really!).

A lot of folks think that "stalling" the themes service, along with the Desktop Window Manager Session Manager service IS "Classic Shell", but it's more analogous to "Windows 7 Basic" theme!

(No, it's not 'Classic', close, but NOT QUITE there - 1st, you have to select the "classic desktop" theme, & then drop those 2 services noted above...).

So, that way (by stalling those 2 services)? Well - You can alternately TRULY "have classic Windows XP/Server 2003 style desktops" using GDI/Win32 for display, via:

---

1.) Right click on desktop, personalize menu

2.) Themes selections & use "Classic"

3.) The last bits this, to make it operate via GDI + Win32 again, afaik: That's also stopping the 2 services I noted above also (since they're really NOT needed then anymore).

---

Plus, you aren't running 2 services (Themes & Desktop Window Manager/Session Manager services) anymore either, wasting CPU cycles, RAM, & other forms of I/O doing something that's no longer necessary OR required!

* I've just always found it performs FASTER (noticeably so) than does the AeroGlass FX desktops driven by DirectX 11 graphics & the GPU...

APK

P.S.=> In the end though? Well, in the "long haul"?? I'd suspect You're probably correct though, in that it depends on what you're doing & what types of apps you use...

(Myself? Well, it's mostly std. stuff (Win64 executables all here, except for Opera, which is still a Win32 PE program with no 64-bit version for Windows yet))...

In fact, I don't *think* ANY apps I run do any compositing work, as they're all just std. Win32/64 Portable Executables (except for games, & I only really occasionally still play Doom III/Quake 4 only)...

... apk

You make a good point with the phone thing by Sycraft-fu · 2011-09-13 08:19 · Score: 1

I've seen more than a couple younger people who have the idea that their mobile phone is all the computer they need. They'll surf the web on it, do everything there. Why would you want anything else?

That attitude never outlasts their first job that uses computers. When you are doing more than just piddling around surfing the web and playing games, suddenly a mouse and keyboard start to make a lot more sense, you want a bigger display, ability to do more than one thing, and so on.

Phones and tablets suck at content creation. They are consumption devices. That's fine, but let's stop pretending that is all people do. We all aspire to be employed and many of those jobs use a computer for a lot of what you do.

Even some non-work things aren't well suited for phones or tablets. This post would be a good example. I shudder to think the amount of time it would take to try and get done with a touchscreen keyboard. However with my computer, I can bash it out quickly since it is set up for fast typing what with real, tactile, keys and a monitor that me fingers do not occlude.

This is not to say new technologies have no place, they do, and I love my smartphone. However this idea that "New is always bettar!" is stupid.

OK, I'm grudgingly impressed by roc97007 · 2011-09-13 08:19 · Score: 1

> [...] and the option to refresh a PC with a clean install of the OS with apps and setting left intact.

If this actually works and is practical, it might be reason to upgrade.

--
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.

Re:OK, I'm grudgingly impressed by LeperPuppet · 2011-09-13 12:05 · Score: 1

Is this feature really going to solve any problems, given that the typical reason for reinstalling Windows is that third-party apps or malware broke it in some way. A reinstall which then installs the same apps again isn't likely to help matters much. If malware or trojans are the problem, they're just going to adapt and hide among the legitimate apps and get reinstalled on the supposedly clean install. This leaves the user back where they started, but with the mistaken idea that their system is fixed.
Re:OK, I'm grudgingly impressed by roc97007 · 2011-09-13 16:45 · Score: 1

> Is this feature really going to solve any problems, given that the typical reason for reinstalling Windows is that third-party apps or malware broke it in some way.
Really? I've been using Winders since 3.1, and often it just stops working. It may be a driver or a corrupted DLL; it's often difficult to tell. But reinstalling and then installing the exact same apps, cures the problem.
So, I think there's an official reason -- that it must have been an app or something else that the user installed -- which is a standard level 1 helpdesk thing to say -- and then there's the real reason. Windows craps out. It just happens.
So yeah, I'd be very interested in a version of Winders where I could reinstall the OS without having to reinstall Photoshop and Lightroom and Office and the VMWare Infrastructure Client and a dozen other apps, and remember where I put all the license keys. I mean, I'm gonna reinstall all that stuff anyway when I reinstall the OS. It'd be nice were it already there.

--
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.

I feel a great disturbance in Teh FOSS... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 08:22 · Score: 0

I feel a great disturbance in Teh FOSS, as if millions of zealots cried out at once, and were suddenly silenced. Oh wait, nevermind, there aren't even millions of people using Teh Lunix.

Flexible by RagingAtheist · 2011-09-13 08:33 · Score: 1

One thing windows has always offered is flexibility, windows 8 just gives more flexibility. I watched the keynote today, all the Metro apps run on top of native libraries built right into the Windows 8 kernel. I for one look forward to trying this out and have visions of controlling my 55 inch flat screen with a kinect in my living room!

Metro sounds familiar by MobyDisk · 2011-09-13 08:44 · Score: 1

Microsoft has spent more than a decade offering, then deprecating, various incarnations of pseudo-desktop web applications:
- Windows DNA
- ActiveX
- VBScript applications running in Internet Explorer
- No-touch deployment
- Clickonce applications

The result is "web applications" that offer the worst of both worlds: the limitations of web applications, with the platform dependence and deployment complexities of desktop applications. Historically, they only run on one particular version of Internet Explorer (probably 2 or 3 releases old), require a particular version of Java, require administrator access, and need very specific security settings on your browser. These apps run in a browser but don't work with bookmarks, the back button, or right clicking. They are slow because every operation requires contacting a server AND running logic on the client. On top of it, these apps are tough to write: you have to know a server-side language, HTML + CSS + Javascript + Microsoft's DOM, and probably some other language to cover-over the limitations (hence the Java and/or C++/ActiveX part of things).

If Microsoft does this right this time, these apps will be purely HTML5 + Javascript. But then if that is the case... haven't they just invented the web browser? The apps should run on a Mac then too. So what's the point?

Microsoft has figured out correctly is that people like apps that look like appliances. No more having 10 toolbars so everything is one click. People are happy today to hide the powerful features if it makes things approachable and pretty. The ribbon in Microsoft Office is an attempt to compromise here. The Windows 7 UI buries and removes lots of features. This is akin to phones: even the most basic options on my Android phone require digging into menus to get there. They do it for screen real-estate. Apple's solution is simply to remove the advanced features. Microsoft is seeing the way the market is going and is trying to catch-up to it. They probably go that right, but they need to find a way to do it without alienating the power that we have today.

Re:Learn 2 read: I didn't suggest doing it... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 08:46 · Score: 0

LOL touch a nerve, did I APK?

Why would you tell people to change a registry setting, and then claim that you "weren't telling them they should change it?"

APK: "I handed you a gun and told you to point it at your face and pull the trigger, it's totally safe!"
Sensible User: "Is it loaded? Am I going to blow my face off?"
APK: "Well I don't know if there are bullets in the gun. But you should just try it anyway."

And I post as AC because I don't particularly feel like being stalked around Slashdot by you, you psychotic freak, not because I'm afraid you know more than me - we all know that you don't.

Headlong rush to "Touch" by TheGoodNamesWereGone · 2011-09-13 08:51 · Score: 1

Okay, very well, Micro$oft, GNOME 3, and Unity all seem to be pushing their users towards a "unified" interface that's common to both PCs and tablets. They accomplish this by dumbing down the PC interface and removing functionality. Can someone please explain to me how this is desirable? And don't get me started about the ribbon interface-- most monitors sold nowadays are WXGA and vertical pixels are valuable. It all smacks of, "We know what's best for you, the consumer. Now shut up."

Re:You think Windows 7 is excellent??? by jrbrtsn · 2011-09-13 08:55 · Score: 1

Windows 7 is a better Windows than Ubuntu, no doubt. However, Ubunutu is a way, way better *nix than Windows 7 can ever hope to be. If you limit yourself to the GUI tools available on an Ubuntu system, then you're only using a fraction of the power that exists there.

Sounds like Firefox! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 08:55 · Score: 0

Firefox users already know the "joy" of a stripped down user interface and loss of features and functionality.

Now we can have that same "feature" all over our operating system. Joy!

Mod Parent Up by 4pins · 2011-09-13 08:55 · Score: 1

Please, throw some positive points at this comment!

Especially since as monitors got wider, Microsoft became obsessed with using up more vertical space.

--
I will not mourn that which I never had to lose. - Unknown

Aero does more + exactly what I do & how by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 09:02 · Score: 0

Saving CPU cycles, RAM, & other forms of I/O too (by disabling services in THEMES + DESKTOP WINDOW MANAGER/SESSION MANAGER services, along with selecting CLASSIC desktop theme, first).

I outline it all here:

http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2426046&cid=37391288

That URL goes into details, & it's where I do note that then the systems' TRULY in "classic mode", by using Win32 + GDI as the graphics display method (vs. DirectX 11).

---

"First, when you use the classic desktop, it automatically disables Aero so I don't know why you are speaking about them as if they were separate." - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 13, @04:12PM (#37391218)

AeroGlass is displayed via DirectX graphics - True "classic" is not, & displayed via Win32 + GDI graphics subsystems layers...

So, in essence? Since they use diff. display methods (DirectX vs. Win32+GDI)? Yes, they ARE "separate" (diff. graphics display methods used).

APK

P.S.=> On this part from you:

"Secondly, using Aero is almost always going to provide better performance because the entire UI is offloaded to the GPU" - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 13, @04:12PM (#37391218)

Perhaps IF you tried to do what is done in DirectX (shadowing, transparencies on hWnd Window frames, etc. that is done in AeroGlass FX) it's faster... but overall? I still find that using the Classic Theme (uses GDI + Win32 subsystems) is faster for a LOT of things while in the explorer desktop shell.

---

"When you use classic desktop, your CPU has to handle everything. It's like comparing the performance of Direct3D/OpenGL vs software rendering in a game" - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 13, @04:12PM (#37391218)

I know that... been programming these machines professionally since 1994, & for years before that...

Sure, the "party line" is "it's faster if the GPU does it", sure... when comparing what both CLASSIC desktops do via GDI + Win32 subsystems do, & what DirectX does for Aero... keeping it "apples-to-apples"!

I do know, E.G., that from coding interfaces for decades now, that doing:

---

1.) Transparency windows

2.) Shadowing/shading of existing Windows frames

---

Are SLOWER in GDI/Win32 than they are in DirectX/Aero, no doubt about it... for some operations (non-std. in GDI/Win32 classic theme mind you, not done by default) DirectX/AeroGlass IS faster... IF you're doing those ops period though, in Classic/Win32-GDI rendered desktops, that is!

However, I'm not doing that programmatically (or via shell addons/shell extensions that do, & there ARE those) here.

I only notice the performance/responsiveness of CLASSIC theme (the way I do it, minus the 2 unneeded services noted above) seems faster for/to me!

---

"The only time I can think that classic desktop might seem faster is if you have a really old GPU" - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 13, @04:12PM (#37391218)

Again, you're touting "the party line" & with SOME OPS (non-std. ones NOT DONE BY DEFAULT in Classic Theme mode/Win32-GDI display driven)? DirectX-AeroGlass WILL be faster... but, those ops (2 I noted above as a couple examples)? Are NOT done by default (not without shell extensions @ least) in Classic theme!

(Classic Theme does a LOT "less" in the way of eye candy, & consumes less resources by doing so, plus I drop 2 services along with the extra work doing classic... It seems FASTER to me for day-to-day tasks is all!)

... apk

Re:Aero does more + exactly what I do & how by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 09:21 · Score: 0

There's a reason the party line is the party line: it's right.
Offloading all your graphics operations to the GPU is better for performance than "killing a couple services" and then forcing your CPU to do all the graphics rendering, even if the Classic GUI does less of the fancy compositing and transparency stuff that Aero does.
Your UI must be rendered by either the CPU or GPU; by disabling use of the GPU, you force the CPU to step in and handle the rendering instead - enjoy your old UI with awful performance.
Re:Aero does more + exactly what I do & how by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 13:58 · Score: 0

There is a simple test, however. Open up some windows with Aero disabled and have a CPU monitor handy. Now, grab one of those windows and quickly move it around the screen. See how your CPU spikes. Now, enable Aero and do the same thing. See how your CPU is almost untouched.
There is a good reason that all modern desktop operating systems use compositing window managers. It's faster and makes better use of the resources at hand.
It seems to me like your entire argument hinges around "proof by verbosity" without any actual facts or logic.

Proof by verbosity, sometimes colloquially referred to as argumentum verbosium - a rhetorical technique that tries to persuade by overwhelming those considering an argument with such a volume of material that the argument sounds plausible, superficially appears to be well-researched, and it is so laborious to untangle and check supporting facts that the argument might be allowed to slide by unchallenged.

All "Metro" Apps Go Through App Store??? by tillerman35 · 2011-09-13 09:06 · Score: 1

This is a stupid idea. It was a stupid idea on the i-whatever devices that Apple sells, and it will be a stupid idea on Windows. Say I want to develop and use an application that I write myself. For myself. On my computer and nobody else's. Now I have to get Windows' approval to "sell" it to myself? I'm heading out to buy a couple of copies of Windows 7 (which I actually kinda like) in case I get a new PC sometime in the future and it comes with Windows 8. That way, I can wipe the disks clean and do a fresh install of a slightly less crippled OS.

The only thing that matters... by pkinetics · 2011-09-13 09:12 · Score: 1

... will be if it can play your Angry Words With Friends

send from my bannana6000phone by Thud457 · 2011-09-13 09:16 · Score: 1

What's a desktop, grandpa?!

--

the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

Will Metro be Microsoft's Unity? by Dcnjoe60 · 2011-09-13 09:24 · Score: 1

The title says it all.

Metro app development in Visual Studio Express by tepples · 2011-09-13 09:26 · Score: 1

DeathFromSomewhere wrote:

restrict even the owner of a machine from installing applications not included in the repository

Who said anything about doing that?

The article states that the only way to install a Metro style application will be through Microsoft's app store. From the article:

As you would expect, Microsoft will sell both the new Metro apps and conventional desktop software via its own App Store. Indeed, that will be the only way you can get hold of Metro Style apps.

Like Apple, Microsoft will vet and digitally sign Metro apps before they appear on the Store.

In the past, some platform manufacturers have implemented a policy that "the only way you can get hold of" an app is through a specific app store, and they've implemented by not allowing end users to self-sign applications for installation.

DeathFromSomewhere wrote:

$99 per year for access to gcc?

What the fuck are you talking about?

I am aware that Visual Studio Express allows the user to develop classic applications. But will the version of Visual Studio Express made available after the release of Windows 8 allow the user to develop Metro applications? If that were the case, then users could self-compile and -install applications from sources other than the Store, and the article states that like Apple, Microsoft doesn't want that. This is why App Hub (formerly XNA Creators Club) and the iOS developer program have an annual fee.

Re:Metro app development in Visual Studio Express by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 12:55 · Score: 0

like Apple, Microsoft doesn't want that. This is why App Hub (formerly XNA Creators Club) and the iOS developer program have an annual fee.
If that actually were the case the Microsoft wouldn't have partnered with Chevron WP7.
Re:Metro app development in Visual Studio Express by Kalriath · 2011-09-13 15:22 · Score: 1

You are aware that you'll still be able to install classic Windows apps right? You know, like Minecraft, Photoshop, etc? And not via the store?

--
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
Re:Metro app development in Visual Studio Express by tepples · 2011-09-14 00:04 · Score: 1

You are aware that you'll still be able to install classic Windows apps right?
Yes, but according to my understanding of the article, classic Windows apps 1. will look like classic Windows apps and thus won't fit in with the Metro look and feel that tablet users will be expecting, 2. will run only on x86 and not on ARM-based tablets and smartbooks, 3. may have trouble exchanging data with Metro apps, and 4. may be hard to reach from within Metro.
Re:Metro app development in Visual Studio Express by Kalriath · 2011-09-14 09:49 · Score: 1

I would disagree with the "hard to reach" bit, though the rest are correct.
I would be personally surprised if you needed to pay up to get the ability to run your own Metro apps on your own PC though, that would just be stupid.

--
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
Re:Metro app development in Visual Studio Express by tepples · 2011-09-14 10:17 · Score: 1

You already do have to pay up to run your own XNA games on your own Xbox 360 or to run your own Silverlight apps on your own Windows Phone 7 device.
Re:Metro app development in Visual Studio Express by Kalriath · 2011-09-15 09:44 · Score: 1

Neither of which are an actual computer. I think you'll find people will tend to oppose that.

--
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".

Surprised by the Negative Reaction by tabdelgawad · 2011-09-13 09:41 · Score: 1

We're getting an OS that:
1) is a superset of Win7 (everything on Win7 will run on Win8),
2) easily switches from a touch UI to a classic desktop UI,
3) will work on various CPU architectures for phones, tablets, and PCs,
4) will allow seamless connectivity, application, and data sharing between all your computing devices,
5) and will run on a crappy atom CPU,
and people here are complaining?!

Slashdot is now officially full of luddites! Go read the engadget review of the developer preview to get a sense of how this OS fits in the modern world.

Obligatory hedge: "I have karma to burn, so go ahead and flame away"

--
Imposing Libertarian views on everyone online since 1992.

Re:Surprised by the Negative Reaction by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · 2011-09-13 11:47 · Score: 2

Many people simply don't believe MS is able to deliver. Trotting out a prototype/development tablet with a fan doesn't inspire a lot of hope. Are they really that far behind that they're still not running on their target CPU architecture, yet?
Re:Surprised by the Negative Reaction by xororand · 2011-09-13 21:11 · Score: 1

Windows 8 is still a proprietary operating system which disqualifies it by definition.
Re:Surprised by the Negative Reaction by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-14 00:40 · Score: 0

Stop spreading FUD. :( They demoed it running on ARM a while ago.
Re:Surprised by the Negative Reaction by mikechant · 2011-09-14 01:52 · Score: 1

2) easily switches from a touch UI to a classic desktop UI,
And apparently then switches back every time you click the Start button, whether you like it or not...
Re:Surprised by the Negative Reaction by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · 2011-09-14 05:40 · Score: 1

Then why didn't they hand out a device with an ARM chip?

Re:You think Windows 7 is excellent??? by Skarecrow77 · 2011-09-13 09:44 · Score: 2

Oh I can certainly drop to terminal window when I need to, and I did with ubuntu. a lot. a whole lot.

That's part of what I didn't like about ubuntu, that I had to dick around with a lot of stuff on a nitty gritty level to get it working. It reminded me sometimes of the old days manually editing config.sys to get IRQs and DMA channels playing nicely between different hardware. To be fair, Ubuntu wrapped a whole lot into gui, a far and away better experience than when I first tried slackware in 1995, but ubuntu gui config was always hit or miss. Wine's gui config worked quite well for instance, but 9.04 never truly liked my video card, and I'd have to manually update my xconfig file half the time, etc (hell, I had to install the video driver from a command prompt more often than not). The repositories rarely had the most updated version of non-big-name software, etc, so I spent a good amount of ubuntu time at a prompt. Now, I'm certainly capable of doing so, but as I said... I just don't want to anymore. I still used dos to do most of my file management even into the win98 era, but eventually GUI interaction won me out, and I prefer it to this day for most tasks. Say what you like, I'm just not that hardcore geek anymore. At least not on my home machine anyway.

I have nothing bad to say about people who like that level of intimacy with their OS. 10 years ago I might have been into it too. I just have other stuff to do now.

Do not want! by NoobixCube · 2011-09-13 09:52 · Score: 1

Most of the time, I have my laptop closed, on my desk, and I'm WAY back, using my TV as my primary monitor. MY ARMS ARE NOT 8 FEET LONG! How the hell am I meant to touch that? The Finglonger won't be reality until the year 3000!

--
Admit it. You post strawman arguments as AC so you get modded Insightful for refuting them, rather than Troll

Re:Do not want! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 18:54 · Score: 0

Most of the time, I have my laptop closed, on my desk, and I'm WAY back, using my TV as my primary monitor. MY ARMS ARE NOT 8 FEET LONG! How the hell am I meant to touch that? The Finglonger won't be reality until the year 3000!
Wii Remote?

Metro apps? by reboot246 · 2011-09-13 10:07 · Score: 1

Reminds me of metro-sexual too much. I think I'll stick with rural apps.

I find Windows 8 interesting... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 10:09 · Score: 0

...but I'm not too keen on having to use a rotary dial for all my computing actions!!!

Re:This is the most cynism I've seen on /. in a wh by DeathFromSomewhere · 2011-09-13 10:29 · Score: 1

Wait until RMS starts whining about some obscure encrypted media format which it turns out Windows 8 supports by default. This is nowhere near the sheer stupidity slashdot is capable of.

--
-1 overrated isn't the same thing as "I disagree".

Traditional x86 will be sold alongside Metro Apps by rbpOne · 2011-09-13 10:38 · Score: 0

"Traditional x86 software will also be sold in the Store alongside the Metro apps"

What the HELL does that even mean?

"Indeed, that will be the only way" by tepples · 2011-09-13 10:57 · Score: 1

The JavaScript apps are HTML5. You need something similar to vi to write them. You can use the HTML features like local storage etc.

But then I guess they'll run with web browser chrome around them unless they're installed through the Microsoft Marketplace. Otherwise, developers would be able to circumvent the Microsoft Marketplace by selling copies of the .hta files (or whatever they're called in Metro) to end users. Or perhaps I'm reading too much into "the only way" from the article:

Microsoft will sell both the new Metro apps and conventional desktop software via its own App Store. Indeed, that will be the only way you can get hold of Metro Style apps.

Another failed unification attempt by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 11:16 · Score: 0

"We envision an OS that scales from small form-factor, keyboardless tablets, all the way up to servers"

There is no grand unification of technology. Smart phones and corporate servers exist in entirely separate problem domains. It's the problem domain that defines the solution, and forcing everyone to bend their problem domains around some generic unified solution is how technology ends up becoming a leveraging force against us.

gnome-shell by illtud · 2011-09-13 11:48 · Score: 1

Typical MS, ripping off great ideas from OSS.

Re:gnome-shell by JRowe47 · 2011-09-13 15:49 · Score: 1

Typical OSS-whore, rebel without a clue. GUIs tend to migrate to certain paradigms, and MS isn't entirely comprised of dummies. The touch paradigm needed to pair up with the desktop at some point, and from the looks of it, they've done a swell job.
Re:gnome-shell by illtud · 2011-09-13 20:53 · Score: 1

Woosh.

Touchy feely computering is not for me by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 11:59 · Score: 0

I don't like this sort setup. I'm not thrilled having no keyboard or mouse when my computer comes on. This also means i need get Win8 friendly touch-screen montior which will either be cheap/crappy or expensive. Maybe they expect people to have alot Windex for the Windows Monitors. Win8 sounds like its computering for people want go slow and who are lazy.

Win7 isn't compatable with alot stuff i own, duel booting isn't on my radar screen. I'm going hope i can last till a 90% backwards Windows compatable OS comes along.

Well, one can only hope.

Re:Touchy feely computering is not for me by JRowe47 · 2011-09-13 15:50 · Score: 1

It's amazing how much people complain about nonexistent problems. Too bad this derp didn't rtfa. (or should that be wtfv?)
Re:Touchy feely computering is not for me by MadMaverick9 · 2011-09-13 22:28 · Score: 1

have u read it?

Jensen Harris, director of program management for the Windows Experience. "Every screen needs to be touch. A monitor without touch feels dead."
And I very much agree with the parent poster:

Maybe they expect people to have alot Windex for the Windows Monitors.
does MS provide free bottles of windex with windows 8?
and I am not a fan of touchy smartphone UIs either - very much a keyboard kinda guy.
Re:Touchy feely computering is not for me by JRowe47 · 2011-09-15 04:46 · Score: 1

It's not mandatory. It's an option. You turn it on or turn it off. The argument against touch related stuff pretty much crumbles in the face of reality - you don't need to use it, you don't have to use it.
Microsoft is simply expanding the capability of their product to include the reality of touch enabled devices. Get over it.

U overlooked 2d display "windows acceleration" by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 12:22 · Score: 0

First of all, 2d portions of GRAPHICS CARDS offload Windows primitives structures in fact, this is part of their Windows Acceleration features & lessens CPU usage HUGELY... Classic mode uses that display engine & the drivers do shunt that to graphics cards also.

NOW - Offloading a HEAVIER task, like Aeroglass to a GPU is fine, & more evenly matched/suited for operations there... but many of those tasks ARE DOABLE in Win32/GDI/Classic mode display, but more weight than they are built to carry by default.

Aeroglass is fine on GPU, especially if rendered in DirectX: A more balanced "engine" to tow the load for the task @ hand, good match in fact.

However - I just think it's slower & less instantly responsive as Win32/GDI in classic shell mode is - just by personal perception.

Again - AEROGLASS' shadowing + transparency effects aren't UNDOABLE via GDI + Win32 subsystems!!

I've done it via shell extensions, & even myself programming it, into apps I've written... using shellextensions for Windows Server 2003/XP etc. but you can see these effects weigh more on Win32/GDI than on a GPU... it's still nice, but as "slow" as Aeroglass is, maybe slower, but not by much.

(No, it's not bad, but it does SLOW THINGS DOWN there even, it's perceptible... & for graphics that's Classic shell does use in Win32 + GDI, vs. DirectX!

However, some of the effects in shell extensions or my own code for transparency etc in Windows? Weighs... & It's heavy for Win32 + GDI in ClassicMode display, but... much the same way AeroGlass' added workload is for the GPU too!

Pound-for-Pound, I'd say either's matched well to what they run on & do, it's proportional in terms of workload & what's carrying it.

However, & E.G.-> AEROGLASS & what it does? Heavier task BY FAR than what GDI + Win32 subsystems do (in rendering visible Windows primitives & blitting to screen) - it's run better on a GPU, but IS MORE WORK.

So, for instance?

When trying to do my examples of Windows shadowing PLUS transparencies for GDI+Win32 Classic mode uses?

Again, oh, it's doable (I've seen shell extensions that do both in fact) but, "H E A V Y" (but, worth it IF you're into that happening on Windows XP or Server 2003 for example, I used to do those shell extensions in fact, for aesthetic value).

I guess what I am trying to say is, it probably pretty much "evens out" & a LOT more than you'd think!

Mainly because Classic Mode is a LIGHTER TASK TO RENDER, & the CPU + graphics card (yes, 2d portions of even MODERN GRAPHICS CARDS offload Windows primitives structures in fact, this is part of their Windows Acceleration features that used to be "touted" prior to 3d graphics "for-the-masses", think circa 1995 & below mostly) are more than adequate in that duty.

You also seem to forget the drivers for the graphics card consume CPU & @ a higher priority than usermode PnP type drivers do + certainly usermode services & apps as well, plus taking more & higher priority scheduled use of direct clock cycles.

It's not "free" on CPU either...

Also/again - Some graphics primitives for Windows programs in 2d display ARE a feature in the 2d driver portion too, offloading to their "windows acceleration functions" as well, again.

I kept repeating the SAME POINT(s) TO STRESS THEM, I hope you see my point(s).

Thank you.

APK

P.S.=> All I can say in the end, is this: I find & yes, perceive TRUE classic mode (especially how I do it, cutting services for more CPU/RAM/Other forms of I/O they use too) to be faster...

ClassicMode Display (especially minus 2 services too as I do) also is just less work is why & suits the CPU fine for speed, heck, windows acceleration features in 2D are perfected pretty much by now, 20++ yrs. of it & all, offloading the CPU of graphics duties largely (also like 3d features do for DirectX/Aero mode)

The use of CPU (offloaded

Malware Writers Rejoice!!! by wideBlueSkies · 2011-09-13 13:23 · Score: 1

New API's and libraries to exploit!!! All new attack vectors!!! Yeah!

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Huh?

Programmers coding using the Metro interface? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 13:28 · Score: 0

I have trouble picturing Metro programmers at Redmond eating their own dogfood. Perhaps we'll also be expected to stand up while programming like Tom Cruise in Minority Report.

Why not two? by RazorSharp · 2011-09-13 13:43 · Score: 1

I think this strategy will hurt them. Basically, it sounds like they're merging their mobile and desktop OSes. How do you focus on things like energy efficiency that mobile devices demand while also keeping backwards compatibility and Windows under the hood? It's an OS with two GUIs.

I can see how the idea would appeal to Microsoft execs - they probably see it as finally expanding Windows to whatever device, a long term goal of theirs. But just like the previous MS tablets and the previous MS mobile OSes, it tries to do too much rather than do select things very well. One would think that Apple's success over the past decade would have taught these guys some lessons. Tablet purchases don't care about Windows compatibility. Windows compatibility matters for businesses who have implemented MS technologies in a way that makes them dependent on them. Mostly in the form of MS Office formats. If you need a computer for work you get a computer. Tablets are much better suited for reading and browsing the internet, two things nobody needs MS-specific technologies for, and business people will not use them as their primary work device anytime soon. Sure, there may be some bleed over, but it's foolish to think that MS's dominance in the business world will bleed over to the mobile space in any way that's significant. It hasn't worked with cell phones, which many use primarily for business, so why would it work for tablets?

They should have copied Apple. Make a mobile OS and make a desktop OS, not this strange combination of the two. Windows 8 just looks like a big fat juicy target for the malware coders. Limiting features enhances security, efficiency, and oftentimes usability.

--
"From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."

and why would I want to have full screen app on a by Joe_Dragon · 2011-09-13 14:20 · Score: 1

and why would I want to have full screen app on a desktop with a big screen or muilt screen systems?

Now full screen works a cell phone but on a much bigger screen?

who cares by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 14:47 · Score: 0

blah blah blah......long live linux...blah blah blah

I love Slashdot... by c2me2 · 2011-09-13 14:59 · Score: 1

I love the way Slashdot people spend years bagging on Microsoft for not "innovating", and then when they do something new, all you can do is piss and moan. If you don't like it, and you have something useful to say, then NOW IS YOUR CHANCE to affect the final outcome. This is a developer preview. It's not even a beta. They WANT to make it better, they want to engage with developers and users. So all you whiners -- here is your chance to stop being a hypocrite, and maybe either 1) admit that they're doing something *at least* interesting, and 2) maybe even consider installing it and sending in real feedback. If this was some random group of guys building a new UI / desktop for Linux, you'd be cheering them on.

Re:You think Windows 7 is excellent??? by morkk · 2011-09-13 15:26 · Score: 1

Nothing's crashing. nothing's blue screening

oh really? I've had uTorrent hang so hard a couple of times that it can't be killed from taskmgr or taskkill. In fact win7 itself hung while shutting down necessitating a hard reset.

New automated features by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-13 15:37 · Score: 0

Does it have new automated features, like an automatic blue screen to reboot feature? It would save user confusion by taking the ctrl-alt-delete step for them.

Re:Traditional x86 will be sold alongside Metro Ap by JRowe47 · 2011-09-13 15:47 · Score: 1

Means apps like, say, Starcraft 2, which are designed around x86 code and really only use the handle assigned by the OS to put their window in, will have a place in the market. They won't have any metro elements, or any interaction with the new OS features like contracts, etc (unless they patch it in.) These are called "silo" applications.

Re:You think Windows 7 is excellent??? by donaldm · 2011-09-13 21:51 · Score: 1

Windows 7 is a better Windows than Ubuntu, no doubt. However, Ubunutu is a way, way better *nix than Windows 7 can ever hope to be. If you limit yourself to the GUI tools available on an Ubuntu system, then you're only using a fraction of the power that exists there.

I don't use Ubuntu but Fedora 15 on my wife's and my laptops and I easily have a much better GUI or command line experience than MS Windows anything. before you say Troll I actually use my laptop in my professional capacity as an IT consultant and can easily work with people in the corporate sector who are using MS Windows XP, Vista, 7. and Office software.

Many people I work with have issues with their corporate (Fortune 500) laptops and have to recover them on a 3 to 5 monthly basis. I have even seen Windows 7 blue screen and no I was not hallucinating. For me I only have a downtime of 2 minutes when I get a new kernel (usually every 10 to 15 days) so it is not unusual for my laptop to have one to two weeks uptime (today is 2.5 days). When I go to work I open up my screen and connect the corporate LAN to get a DHCP IP address automatically. When I get home I open my screen and the OS connects to my wireless network automatically and the next day I close the screen and repeat the process.

Total cost of software for my laptop is $0 and I don't pirate software. The company I consult for does not supply software for me to be compatible with those people who do use MS Software yet strangely (to some) I can easily work with them.

--
There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.

Yeah Microsoft! by mkintigh · 2011-09-14 00:17 · Score: 1

So, Microsoft is going to help the monitor manufacturers by forcing everyone to have touchscreens (yeah, right). On giant step for Microsoft, on giant step back for users.

Guess I'll be using my MacBook more and converting my desktop to Linux.

Just did your "test" (same result both ways) by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-14 01:07 · Score: 1

0-5% usage in AEROGlass mode, & 0-5% in Classic Mode too.

Once more, as far as CPU usage: You're overlooking the fact that 2d display has been offloaded to the graphics card's circuitry for ages!

(And, for a LOT longer than 3d graphics have been around mind you...)

In fact - I've used boards that do THAT since 1992 (Diamond Stealth 64 being my 1st one that did so, via its "Windows Accelerator" features which offload bitblt graphics primitives for 2d display in Windows to the graphics cards' processors for this).

I.E.-> I had the EXACT same CPU usage moving around taskmgr.exe's Window on the screen, resizing it, etc. in both CLASSIC Mode (using Win32 + GDI display subsystems) & AeroGlass (using DirectX display subsystem).

* NVidia GeForce GTX 470 graphics card in use here...

APK

P.S.=> Or, did you forget that graphics cards in Windows have been offloading duties from the CPU since the early SVGA days (1992 is when I first started using "Windows Acceleration" featured SVGA cards)? apk

Proof of 2D "Windows Accelerators" offload the CPU by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-14 02:00 · Score: 0

Same as 3d GPU's do, see here -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_processing_unit

PERTINENT QUOTE/EXCERPT:

"by 1995, all major PC graphics chip makers had added 2D acceleration support to their chips. By this time, fixed-function Windows accelerators had surpassed expensive general-purpose graphics coprocessors in Windows performance, and these coprocessors faded away from the PC market. Throughout the 1990s, 2D GUI acceleration continued to evolve. As manufacturing capabilities improved, so did the level of integration of graphics chips.

In the early and mid-1990s, CPU-assisted real-time 3D graphics were becoming increasingly common in computer and console games, which led to an increasing public demand for hardware-accelerated 3D graphics. Early examples of mass-marketed 3D graphics hardware can be found in fifth generation video game consoles such as PlayStation and Nintendo 64. In the PC world, notable failed first-tries for low-cost 3D graphics chips were the S3 ViRGE, ATI Rage, and Matrox Mystique. These chips were essentially previous-generation 2D accelerators with 3D features bolted on. Many were even pin-compatible with the earlier-generation chips for ease of implementation and minimal cost. Initially, performance 3D graphics were possible only with discrete boards dedicated to accelerating 3D functions (and lacking 2D GUI acceleration entirely) such as the 3dfx Voodoo. However, as manufacturing technology again progressed, video, 2D GUI acceleration, and 3D functionality were all integrated into one chip.
Rendition's Verite chipsets were the first to do this well enough to be worthy of note.

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* And, thus, so much for your "test" - because 2d displays have been doing offloads of CPU based processing since the early 1990's with SVGA cards' "Windows Accelerator" functions...

APK

P.S.=> Your overlooking this basic long-known FACT, that Windows 2D graphics functions in bitblts + windows primitives being offloaded to graphics cards (& off of the system CPU), truly just tells me you are youngsters/noobs... apk

Complicated computery things by tepples · 2011-09-15 12:02 · Score: 1

So you're saying Microsoft will start selling computers to compete with non-computers such as iPad. That hasn't worked for the two decades that tablet PCs have been around. Windows for Pen Computing 1.0 (based on Windows 3.1) has been around since 2001; why did it fail where the iPad succeeded? Some people might think it's because the iPad didn't try to be a "computer" with all the complicated "computery" things. Non-geeks want an appliance.

Re:Learn 2 read: I didn't suggest doing it... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-23 09:27 · Score: 0

A nerve touched was my ulnar nerve (funnybone) by APK making you look like a fool and he made me laugh doing it by showing you cannot read.

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