The real issue back then was that MS required OEMs to install MS OS on every computer they sold if they wanted to install it on ANY computer they sold.
No, that wasn't the anti-trust issue, that was exclusivity partner agreements.
Leveraging a monopoly in one market to gain advantage in another is anti-competitive and violates anti-trust law. Microsoft used it's Windows monopoly to push IE on users and Google is using its Android monopoly to push gapps on users.
Now for what it's worth I don't think there is an issue, if the alternatives were actually better then users would install and use them rather than the bundled versions.
1) I think Microsoft also required OEM's to not preload Netscape. Don't think Google does anything like that - though requiring the Google search box in launchers may come close...
I don't think so, Compaq shipped Windows PCs with Netscape preloaded. The real issue back then was Microsoft offered IE for free and Netscape charged a fee for their browser.
Plus, Android has not reached anything approaching monopoly status (yet).
Really? They pretty much own the global market for smartphones.
2) You prove my point - nothing prevents you from loading alteratives.
That's irrelevant, nothing ever prevented you from loading Netscape on your Windows PC either.
For what it's worth I don't think there's anything wrong with Google doing this, so long as you can install alternatives there should be no issue, but then that's what I thought about Microsoft too. If they alternatives aren't compelling enough to entice the users to install them then they are useless anyway.
That question became irrelevant given that the premise that the iPhones are worse than the HTC One was wrong. Even if it were relevant, if you want to know go look - I certainly don't follow Android designs.
It isn't irrelevant, you stated it and I can't find any evidence of it so you're called out as a liar, unless you can back it up, but you can't.
But you are still ignoring the fact that the phone you presented as a paradigm is more easily bent than the iPhone 6 Plus and the same as the iPhone 6. Evidence via Consumer Reports.You had a chance to prove you weren't just a hater troll, and you failed.
End of conversation. You've proven yourself not to be interested in the truth.
No, actually it is you who is not interested in the truth. Explain to me what exactly is it in that Consumer Reports test that is being tested? Is that thing on the end of the actuator supposed to represent some really thin leg? And the smartphone has somehow wedged horizontally down in one's pocket? Come on, don't be an idiot.
Frankly the level of stupidity on this issue is just astounding and now you are actually going to look at this test and tell me you genuinely think that is representative of a real world situation? Really? You point to that report and then call me a "hater troll"? No, I have a 6+ and it's great, I hope it doesn't bend and I don't really think it will but I'm not a shill, I'm not going to look at that test and pretend it demonstrates anything about real world usage.
But wait; I thought the Conventional Wisdom among the Slashdot crowd was the the iPhone is being taken over by Android, and that Apple has only seconds to live.
Given the amount of discussion and debate on issues like this I don't see how you're coming to a conclusion about what "the slashdot crowd" thinks.
So which is it? Is the iPhone the most popular Phone in the world, or is it doomed to extinction any second now? Can't have it both ways...
What do you mean "which is it"? I think I already made it pretty clear, it shouldn't be that hard to follow. Many people also say Microsoft is doomed to extinction despite having the most popular and common desktop operating system, do you believe them too and project their opinions on everybody else that posts on this site?
If it were flimsy, perhaps , but in reality it's not - some Android phones are worse, and if you pick one up you can tell "flimsy" does not describe it at all.
I'm not interested in Android phones but certainly going from a 5S to a 6+ the 6+ feels a lot flimsier. It still feels fairly well put together but it doesn't feel particularly durable.
Where was your Righteous Outrage at the makers of the HTC One (M8), that apparently bends with approximately the same force as the new iPhone?
The M8 is a lot less popular than the iPhone, in fact the iPhone is pretty much the most common smartphone model out there, produced by the richest tech company in the world which is why it is heavily scrutinized. It actually did garner a little attention with its shift to unibody construction in the M8 rather than the aluminium back with the plastic bezel in the M7.
On the other hand, it might equally well be price discrimination where they turn off perfectly working features just to be able to sell the same product to different people for a different price. Who knows?
Does it matter? The product is different, whether the inaccessible bits are working or not is irrelevant. It isn't price discrimination because the product is different.
Yep and that's exactly why android will never take over the mobile market.
No, Android is run as a dictatorship, how many Android window managers are there? Even now the handset manufacturers are allowed less and less room to customize and skin the environment so that it provides a consistent experience rather than dozens of different UI skins and different window managers with various different supporting application libraries and programs that look completely different to one another because they all use different GUI toolkits.
Providing consistency across the platform such that Android users can transition between different hardware setups and applications without it being a jarring experience is how you keep users on the platform and advance it. It is in their interest to prevent this fracturing that desktop Linux suffers from where different distributions look, feel and operate completely different to eachother, not to mention all the different application toolkits.
For example, if I build a gaming machine which runs Linux using proprietary NVIDIA GPU drivers, and I pull games peppered with DRM from Steam, I am just replicating the restricted Windows environment.
Except that a huge part of it is free and open source software.
Compare that to, say, modern phones. Android is very similar to Linux, but I cannot get a root shell on my own phone (without modifying it) even though it is physically capable of this, but that feature is restricted by the manufacturer.
The feature is just not provided by the manufacturer and if you want it you can add it yourself, it's really simple and easy to do.
For example, I have a video file that plays without sound on an Android tablet because the sound codec is not supported. Decoding sound does not take a lot of CPU power, so I should be able to just install the codec as I can do on a PC, but it is restricted.
So just get root access then, there are a myriad of tutorials on the net showing how to do it. Yes they come somewhat restricted out of the box because - as we have seen with Windows - the vast majority of people will end up with malware-infected systems if you just allow them root access by default to install anything and everything. Then they blame the device, the OS or the manufacturer for having an insecure platform. These restrictions aren't a problem for 90%+ of people and for the minority that they do affect there is a simple workaround anyway.
What are you talking about? The solution is to properly engineer the chassis of the iPhone to be more structurally sound rather than this stupid pursuit of thinness above all else. Nobody ever complained that even the old iPhone 3G was too thick.
Also I notice you avoided answering my followup question to your assertion:
An observation that applies to all "phablets".
What other ones are as thin as the new iPhones, flat (because having a curve like the HTC one is better engineering as it gives added strength) and made of aluminium?
Of course it doesn't mean "bugs are non-existent", otherwise that would be the phrase. You could interpret the results that we have seen to mean that there are just not enough eyes, in which case the statement is simply just redundant and obviously irrelevant and doesn't apply to open source software anyway.
What other ones are as thin as the new iPhones, flat (because having a curve like the HTC one is better engineering as it gives added strength) and made of aluminium?
Same mistake. The iPhone 5 is 2 years old.
I meant 2, which is what I said in my original post regarding the 5C, it's 2 year old hardware which means by Apple standards it will be dog slow a year from now.
Ofc the technology is feasable. It is just not 'en vouge'.
It's precisely what he said, while the basic premise is feasible (and demonstrated in your link and with games like Minecraft and the various sparse voxel octree demos on youtube) the issue is that dynamic lighting for raytracing and animation of high resolution voxel meshes is prohibitively expensive.
This company with it's impressive-looking but completely static scenes shows up every few years.
It's nothing particularly special. Unigine has done something similar, Atomontage is also similar, Voxel Farm is lower resolution but supports more interactivity, there's various SVO demos, this one is particularly cool for high resolution detail.
the stuff at the end has better texturing but it's *not* photorealistic.
That's because what it is is basically a high resolution 3D image. They use laser scanning to produce a high resolution point cloud and then display it, the ability to display that much data is impressive but currently it's using baked lighting (whatever is captured), no animation and seemingly no volumetric data. It's all well and good to display an image but it's not particular good from an interactive perspective if you don't have any context, like what's a tree, a rock or grass? You could individually scan those objects and place them in a scene but you then need to re-light them all, which is doable but they don't seem to have demonstrated that.
His point is that the issue is not with Linux at all, because Linux is just a kernel. The issue is with Bash and you can quite easily have Linux installed without Bash. In fact tens of millions of people have Linux running on their Android phones without Bash and you'll find a number of people have Bash installed on Windows using cygwin.
Yes, and of course this proves once again that "open source/Linux is bad" and "Windows is good."
Nobody said that, stop trying to start a flamewar. We have many examples now of decade+ old bugs in open source software which pretty much debunks the idea that "with many eyes all bugs are shallow". Now does that mean open source is bad? No. Does this mean Linux is bad? No. Does this mean Windows is good? No. Did anybody but you even suggest anyone was saying such things? No.
You mean "worse than a vulnerability that doesn't seem to have been exploited on any significant scale"?
You think you'll be notified whenever there is an attack that exploits the heartbleed vulnerability? How do you know that an attack - if you even know an attack took place - did or did not result from the heartbleed bug?
Well if we also have examples of the 5S being bent, and yet it hasn't proven to be a significant problem over the year, there is no reason to assume this one is.
Except the new ones are much larger and significantly thinner, obviously making the possibility of deformation far more likely.
The 5C is only a year old, not 2. And there's a financial compensation for that year - a significant price reduction. It's now free with a contract.
Because a large portions of Americans are obese, having the iPhone in such cramped conditions under extreme pressure for extended periods of time is causing the issue.
Not sure what the solution is but I'm sure Apple will have a fix out in no time.
They already announced it, it's coming in 2015: The Apple Watch and HealthKit.
Slashdot Mirror
The real issue back then was that MS required OEMs to install MS OS on every computer they sold if they wanted to install it on ANY computer they sold.
No, that wasn't the anti-trust issue, that was exclusivity partner agreements.
Leveraging a monopoly in one market to gain advantage in another is anti-competitive and violates anti-trust law. Microsoft used it's Windows monopoly to push IE on users and Google is using its Android monopoly to push gapps on users.
Now for what it's worth I don't think there is an issue, if the alternatives were actually better then users would install and use them rather than the bundled versions.
1) I think Microsoft also required OEM's to not preload Netscape. Don't think Google does anything like that - though requiring the Google search box in launchers may come close...
I don't think so, Compaq shipped Windows PCs with Netscape preloaded. The real issue back then was Microsoft offered IE for free and Netscape charged a fee for their browser.
Plus, Android has not reached anything approaching monopoly status (yet).
Really? They pretty much own the global market for smartphones.
2) You prove my point - nothing prevents you from loading alteratives.
That's irrelevant, nothing ever prevented you from loading Netscape on your Windows PC either.
For what it's worth I don't think there's anything wrong with Google doing this, so long as you can install alternatives there should be no issue, but then that's what I thought about Microsoft too. If they alternatives aren't compelling enough to entice the users to install them then they are useless anyway.
That question became irrelevant given that the premise that the iPhones are worse than the HTC One was wrong. Even if it were relevant, if you want to know go look - I certainly don't follow Android designs.
It isn't irrelevant, you stated it and I can't find any evidence of it so you're called out as a liar, unless you can back it up, but you can't.
But you are still ignoring the fact that the phone you presented as a paradigm is more easily bent than the iPhone 6 Plus and the same as the iPhone 6. Evidence via Consumer Reports.You had a chance to prove you weren't just a hater troll, and you failed.
End of conversation. You've proven yourself not to be interested in the truth.
No, actually it is you who is not interested in the truth. Explain to me what exactly is it in that Consumer Reports test that is being tested? Is that thing on the end of the actuator supposed to represent some really thin leg? And the smartphone has somehow wedged horizontally down in one's pocket? Come on, don't be an idiot.
Frankly the level of stupidity on this issue is just astounding and now you are actually going to look at this test and tell me you genuinely think that is representative of a real world situation? Really? You point to that report and then call me a "hater troll"? No, I have a 6+ and it's great, I hope it doesn't bend and I don't really think it will but I'm not a shill, I'm not going to look at that test and pretend it demonstrates anything about real world usage.
But wait; I thought the Conventional Wisdom among the Slashdot crowd was the the iPhone is being taken over by Android, and that Apple has only seconds to live.
Given the amount of discussion and debate on issues like this I don't see how you're coming to a conclusion about what "the slashdot crowd" thinks.
So which is it? Is the iPhone the most popular Phone in the world, or is it doomed to extinction any second now? Can't have it both ways...
What do you mean "which is it"? I think I already made it pretty clear, it shouldn't be that hard to follow. Many people also say Microsoft is doomed to extinction despite having the most popular and common desktop operating system, do you believe them too and project their opinions on everybody else that posts on this site?
If it were flimsy, perhaps , but in reality it's not - some Android phones are worse, and if you pick one up you can tell "flimsy" does not describe it at all.
I'm not interested in Android phones but certainly going from a 5S to a 6+ the 6+ feels a lot flimsier. It still feels fairly well put together but it doesn't feel particularly durable.
Where was your Righteous Outrage at the makers of the HTC One (M8), that apparently bends with approximately the same force as the new iPhone?
The M8 is a lot less popular than the iPhone, in fact the iPhone is pretty much the most common smartphone model out there, produced by the richest tech company in the world which is why it is heavily scrutinized. It actually did garner a little attention with its shift to unibody construction in the M8 rather than the aluminium back with the plastic bezel in the M7.
On the other hand, it might equally well be price discrimination where they turn off perfectly working features just to be able to sell the same product to different people for a different price. Who knows?
Does it matter? The product is different, whether the inaccessible bits are working or not is irrelevant. It isn't price discrimination because the product is different.
Yep and that's exactly why android will never take over the mobile market.
No, Android is run as a dictatorship, how many Android window managers are there? Even now the handset manufacturers are allowed less and less room to customize and skin the environment so that it provides a consistent experience rather than dozens of different UI skins and different window managers with various different supporting application libraries and programs that look completely different to one another because they all use different GUI toolkits.
Providing consistency across the platform such that Android users can transition between different hardware setups and applications without it being a jarring experience is how you keep users on the platform and advance it. It is in their interest to prevent this fracturing that desktop Linux suffers from where different distributions look, feel and operate completely different to eachother, not to mention all the different application toolkits.
For example, if I build a gaming machine which runs Linux using proprietary NVIDIA GPU drivers, and I pull games peppered with DRM from Steam, I am just replicating the restricted Windows environment.
Except that a huge part of it is free and open source software.
Compare that to, say, modern phones. Android is very similar to Linux, but I cannot get a root shell on my own phone (without modifying it) even though it is physically capable of this, but that feature is restricted by the manufacturer.
The feature is just not provided by the manufacturer and if you want it you can add it yourself, it's really simple and easy to do.
For example, I have a video file that plays without sound on an Android tablet because the sound codec is not supported. Decoding sound does not take a lot of CPU power, so I should be able to just install the codec as I can do on a PC, but it is restricted.
So just get root access then, there are a myriad of tutorials on the net showing how to do it. Yes they come somewhat restricted out of the box because - as we have seen with Windows - the vast majority of people will end up with malware-infected systems if you just allow them root access by default to install anything and everything. Then they blame the device, the OS or the manufacturer for having an insecure platform. These restrictions aren't a problem for 90%+ of people and for the minority that they do affect there is a simple workaround anyway.
Well just like in the car example, given the special screwdriver and some basic tools you can pry open your smartphone and replace the battery in it.
What are you talking about? The solution is to properly engineer the chassis of the iPhone to be more structurally sound rather than this stupid pursuit of thinness above all else. Nobody ever complained that even the old iPhone 3G was too thick.
Also I notice you avoided answering my followup question to your assertion:
An observation that applies to all "phablets".
What other ones are as thin as the new iPhones, flat (because having a curve like the HTC one is better engineering as it gives added strength) and made of aluminium?
Care to answer that one?
Of course it doesn't mean "bugs are non-existent", otherwise that would be the phrase. You could interpret the results that we have seen to mean that there are just not enough eyes, in which case the statement is simply just redundant and obviously irrelevant and doesn't apply to open source software anyway.
An observation that applies to all "phablets".
What other ones are as thin as the new iPhones, flat (because having a curve like the HTC one is better engineering as it gives added strength) and made of aluminium?
Same mistake. The iPhone 5 is 2 years old.
I meant 2, which is what I said in my original post regarding the 5C, it's 2 year old hardware which means by Apple standards it will be dog slow a year from now.
Ofc the technology is feasable. It is just not 'en vouge'.
It's precisely what he said, while the basic premise is feasible (and demonstrated in your link and with games like Minecraft and the various sparse voxel octree demos on youtube) the issue is that dynamic lighting for raytracing and animation of high resolution voxel meshes is prohibitively expensive.
They released a video 6 or 7 years ago and were claiming "yes we can do animation", now many years later they still can't show animation.
This company with it's impressive-looking but completely static scenes shows up every few years.
It's nothing particularly special. Unigine has done something similar, Atomontage is also similar, Voxel Farm is lower resolution but supports more interactivity, there's various SVO demos, this one is particularly cool for high resolution detail.
the stuff at the end has better texturing but it's *not* photorealistic.
That's because what it is is basically a high resolution 3D image. They use laser scanning to produce a high resolution point cloud and then display it, the ability to display that much data is impressive but currently it's using baked lighting (whatever is captured), no animation and seemingly no volumetric data. It's all well and good to display an image but it's not particular good from an interactive perspective if you don't have any context, like what's a tree, a rock or grass? You could individually scan those objects and place them in a scene but you then need to re-light them all, which is doable but they don't seem to have demonstrated that.
Linux isnt affected because of the kernel.
How's that then?
His point is that the issue is not with Linux at all, because Linux is just a kernel. The issue is with Bash and you can quite easily have Linux installed without Bash. In fact tens of millions of people have Linux running on their Android phones without Bash and you'll find a number of people have Bash installed on Windows using cygwin.
Yes, and of course this proves once again that "open source/Linux is bad" and "Windows is good."
Nobody said that, stop trying to start a flamewar. We have many examples now of decade+ old bugs in open source software which pretty much debunks the idea that "with many eyes all bugs are shallow". Now does that mean open source is bad? No. Does this mean Linux is bad? No. Does this mean Windows is good? No. Did anybody but you even suggest anyone was saying such things? No.
You mean "worse than a vulnerability that doesn't seem to have been exploited on any significant scale"?
You think you'll be notified whenever there is an attack that exploits the heartbleed vulnerability? How do you know that an attack - if you even know an attack took place - did or did not result from the heartbleed bug?
Well i guess it mustn't have that issue then.
Well if we also have examples of the 5S being bent, and yet it hasn't proven to be a significant problem over the year, there is no reason to assume this one is.
Except the new ones are much larger and significantly thinner, obviously making the possibility of deformation far more likely.
The 5C is only a year old, not 2. And there's a financial compensation for that year - a significant price reduction. It's now free with a contract.
The hardware is from the 5, which is 3 years old.
Because a large portions of Americans are obese, having the iPhone in such cramped conditions under extreme pressure for extended periods of time is causing the issue.
Not sure what the solution is but I'm sure Apple will have a fix out in no time.
They already announced it, it's coming in 2015: The Apple Watch and HealthKit.