The big problem I have with Redhat's suppor for example, is that their support stops at source code modification.
Hey, if I'm going to pay bucks for support on an OS, you had better be able to help me patch the OS if something breaks.
Otherwise, Redhat has wonderful Enterprise installation and general help. Remember, these distro companies only package the OS for you, and consolidate changes when they're made by the parties who actually write the software.
There's no way I can pitch it to the money spenders if I can't guarantee 100% support of the product. Redhat cannot guarantee 100% of the packaged product, so I don't pitch Redhat. I'd imagine this is similar with the other distro companies, but that's sheer speculation.
You're obviously someone who doesn't work for a 7000+ employee company with a real support contract with MS who can leverage some support out of them.
I thought this was what the article was about, not about the average Joe calling about Midtown Madness or the.com trying to get their chincy SBS package to work.
With the money you save running Linux, at least you could afford to buy a clue.
The article is based on a company with 7000+ employees. Is it safe to say that a company with that many employees, who is an NT shop, can afford a support contract better than what is outlined than in the link you posted?
I am an employee of a large company -- one with more than 7000 employees, specifically. We are not a.com company, we are not a mom and pop store on the corner. We have a quite a bundle of NT servers, we cough up the cash for MS support. We do not pay-per-incident. They're always there for us, they address our problems with NT or any of there other products when they happen. Those are our support needs.
The people on this board who rip my 'MS is always there' statement are probably the ones who have never been part of an organization with a large support contract with anyone, let alone MS, and have that sort of leverage with a software vendor.
For the single user, or a small company, I'm sure MS support fails them on a regular basis. That is not the scope of the article or the thread. This is for larger companies.
"And don't give me that bs about how your Linux support is all from Timmy's little brother. Usually you can get help from the actual *authors* of an application if there is a bug. If your problem is just learning how to use the system, you can find help on user mailing lists, where people are very friendly, helpful, and knowledgeable."
But see, this doesn't sell with the management who is spending the money and reasources on these projects. There is no way I could sell Linux if my only support is user mailing lists, or the author of the app that MIGHT be there if he isn't stoned or busy playing EQ. I can call MS and get an answer, and sometimes a fix. I can call Sun and get an answer and a fix. And I can get it NOW. The comfort level just isn't there with Redhat or any of the other Linux distro companies.
I'm sorry, but coming from a company with 7000+ employees, that's just the reality.
And how did they FUCK you on that?
A little bitter you might have to pay a couple hundred bucks for a dev product like the rest of the world? Did that cut into your allowance?
"We can't even consider linux because I'm the only person who understands it enough to admin a box."
And that's exactly why. So if one of your linux systems breaks, and you're unavailable.. who does your company call?
At least with NT, there's an out -- they can call MS support and eventually get an answer. And MS is ALWAYS there. Your company doesn't have to rely on Timmy's little brother or "that guy from the computer store" to solve your linux problems when there's no one else around.
Confidence that you can find someone else who knows about the OS in a pinch is almost more important than understanding it yourself, especially when you have $$$ on the line.
Well, the 7000+ employee company I currently work for is making inroads to Linux, but only very small scale. That means we consider Linux for firewalls, web server farms, test equipment, non-domain file servers.... appliance type stuff.
I think if I went to my management and suggested Linux for the file servers and desktops, or anything really business critical, I'd get laughed off campus, or outright fired.
Linux is a good solution for the enterprise, but not a complete solution. It makes for a great shim, not a cornerstone.
And it's the same people who have time on their Friday and Saturday nights to re-encode their 50G of junk they've gotten from Napster.
I'm sorry, but I dont have that kind of time just because some niche market thinks it's the right thing to do. And frankly, I could care less if a music format is patented or not. I've survived 30 years on other patented products, I think I can deal with digital music.
The ones who don't mind spending their Friday and Saturday night's re-ripping that 50G of music they've got laying around just because OGG sounds like it's going to be the Next Great Thing.
Until I see more hardware support, and better support for the codec in the applications I like to use (not the crap you see on freshmeat that some dweeb whipped up in his parent's basement), I'll stick to mp3, thank you.
I think they both sound like crap next to a live performance or a CD. I can't think why anyone would listen to an mp3/ogg to truely experience the music.
OV may be patent-free, but until I see support for it in the plethora of digital music hardware out there on the market, I'll stick with mp3.
As long as I can strike a nerve with the over-caffienated, the under-sexxed, and in your case, the over-critical and excessive on the cheesy cliches, I consider my postings to be satisfactory.
I find that the ones who dish out a lot of picky criticism are the ones who can't seem to take it.
Well, you're talking to people who are spoiled by their parent's lame cable modem, and who have no concept of finding some sort of net access while you're stuck in some chincy hotel in the middle of nowhere with nothing except an analogue line and your 28.8k laptop modem.
I mean come on, what do you expect out of this group? Objectivity and Real World experience? Right. That's hard to get when the only sun these idiots get are on those days when their college dorm happens to have a fire drill in the middle of the day.
That's sad, I had to actually think for a few minutes why one of these dweebs would need to leave their computer nowadays. The list is getting shorter.
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The big problem I have with Redhat's suppor for example, is that their support stops at source code modification.
Hey, if I'm going to pay bucks for support on an OS, you had better be able to help me patch the OS if something breaks.
Otherwise, Redhat has wonderful Enterprise installation and general help. Remember, these distro companies only package the OS for you, and consolidate changes when they're made by the parties who actually write the software.
There's no way I can pitch it to the money spenders if I can't guarantee 100% support of the product. Redhat cannot guarantee 100% of the packaged product, so I don't pitch Redhat. I'd imagine this is similar with the other distro companies, but that's sheer speculation.
~dlb
You're obviously someone who doesn't work for a 7000+ employee company with a real support contract with MS who can leverage some support out of them.
.com trying to get their chincy SBS package to work.
I thought this was what the article was about, not about the average Joe calling about Midtown Madness or the
With the money you save running Linux, at least you could afford to buy a clue.
~dlb
The article is based on a company with 7000+ employees. Is it safe to say that a company with that many employees, who is an NT shop, can afford a support contract better than what is outlined than in the link you posted?
.com company, we are not a mom and pop store on the corner. We have a quite a bundle of NT servers, we cough up the cash for MS support. We do not pay-per-incident. They're always there for us, they address our problems with NT or any of there other products when they happen. Those are our support needs.
I am an employee of a large company -- one with more than 7000 employees, specifically. We are not a
The people on this board who rip my 'MS is always there' statement are probably the ones who have never been part of an organization with a large support contract with anyone, let alone MS, and have that sort of leverage with a software vendor.
For the single user, or a small company, I'm sure MS support fails them on a regular basis. That is not the scope of the article or the thread. This is for larger companies.
~dlb
"And don't give me that bs about how your Linux support is all from Timmy's little brother. Usually you can get help from the actual *authors* of an application if there is a bug. If your problem is just learning how to use the system, you can find help on user mailing lists, where people are very friendly, helpful, and knowledgeable."
But see, this doesn't sell with the management who is spending the money and reasources on these projects. There is no way I could sell Linux if my only support is user mailing lists, or the author of the app that MIGHT be there if he isn't stoned or busy playing EQ. I can call MS and get an answer, and sometimes a fix. I can call Sun and get an answer and a fix. And I can get it NOW. The comfort level just isn't there with Redhat or any of the other Linux distro companies.
I'm sorry, but coming from a company with 7000+ employees, that's just the reality.
~dlb
Or, we have MCS basically living on campus.
We call, they listen. They fix shit for us on the spot when it breaks.
Ok, well they're always there for us.
And you don't have to worry if they're going bomb in 6 months.
And how did they FUCK you on that?
A little bitter you might have to pay a couple hundred bucks for a dev product like the rest of the world? Did that cut into your allowance?
"We can't even consider linux because I'm the only person who understands it enough to admin a box."
And that's exactly why. So if one of your linux systems breaks, and you're unavailable.. who does your company call?
At least with NT, there's an out -- they can call MS support and eventually get an answer. And MS is ALWAYS there. Your company doesn't have to rely on Timmy's little brother or "that guy from the computer store" to solve your linux problems when there's no one else around.
Confidence that you can find someone else who knows about the OS in a pinch is almost more important than understanding it yourself, especially when you have $$$ on the line.
~dlb
Well, the 7000+ employee company I currently work for is making inroads to Linux, but only very small scale. That means we consider Linux for firewalls, web server farms, test equipment, non-domain file servers.... appliance type stuff.
I think if I went to my management and suggested Linux for the file servers and desktops, or anything really business critical, I'd get laughed off campus, or outright fired.
Linux is a good solution for the enterprise, but not a complete solution. It makes for a great shim, not a cornerstone.
~dlb
You bastard.
The whole IRC speak thing is sooo 90's.
And it's the same people who have time on their Friday and Saturday nights to re-encode their 50G of junk they've gotten from Napster.
I'm sorry, but I dont have that kind of time just because some niche market thinks it's the right thing to do. And frankly, I could care less if a music format is patented or not. I've survived 30 years on other patented products, I think I can deal with digital music.
~dlb
The ones who don't mind spending their Friday and Saturday night's re-ripping that 50G of music they've got laying around just because OGG sounds like it's going to be the Next Great Thing.
Until I see more hardware support, and better support for the codec in the applications I like to use (not the crap you see on freshmeat that some dweeb whipped up in his parent's basement), I'll stick to mp3, thank you.
~dlb
I think they both sound like crap next to a live performance or a CD. I can't think why anyone would listen to an mp3/ogg to truely experience the music.
OV may be patent-free, but until I see support for it in the plethora of digital music hardware out there on the market, I'll stick with mp3.
~dlb
I noticed that several apes looked disturbingly close to a sneering Sandra Bullock.
Leaving a planet and not taking Estella Warren with you should be a crime.
I wanted so badly to yell at the screen:
Hey Leo! There's a blonde hottie standing over there who's two seconds away from grabbing your junk. What's your hurry to get back to earth? Giddyup.
I say he deserves to get stuck on an Earth full of apes.
~dlb
As long as I can strike a nerve with the over-caffienated, the under-sexxed, and in your case, the over-critical and excessive on the cheesy cliches, I consider my postings to be satisfactory.
I find that the ones who dish out a lot of picky criticism are the ones who can't seem to take it.
~dlb
Thank you for being anal. We need more quality people like you.
~dlb
a) The ending
b) Where did they get horses?
c) If I were the spaceman about to get in a pod, and Estella Warren was standing over there, I would've said "Hey, I've got room for two in here".
~dlb
When's the caning?
It's not enough of a plight to give up PDFs.
Dmitry is screwed. Move along with life.
Well, you're talking to people who are spoiled by their parent's lame cable modem, and who have no concept of finding some sort of net access while you're stuck in some chincy hotel in the middle of nowhere with nothing except an analogue line and your 28.8k laptop modem.
I mean come on, what do you expect out of this group? Objectivity and Real World experience? Right. That's hard to get when the only sun these idiots get are on those days when their college dorm happens to have a fire drill in the middle of the day.
That's sad, I had to actually think for a few minutes why one of these dweebs would need to leave their computer nowadays. The list is getting shorter.
What's so offensive about a pdf file?
Jeez, it's 2001, you can start thinking beyond vi and notepad.
Are you kidding me? Linux is one giant beta test.
Why, still mystified by the whole unstrapping of the bra thing?