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Future of Digital Music in Doubt
mlknowle writes: "NPR has an excellent article about the growing trend of 'real' radio stations abandoning streaming media due to concerns about advertising, royalties, and (you guessed it) the DMCA. Basically, stations are finding that web streaming isn't increasing their listener base, but is increasing their costs. It's a good read (or listen.)" Meanwhile, there's a study circulating saying that people don't and won't purchase heavily restricted music online at higher prices for a less useful item. This is apparently a revelation to the music industry.
I think it's ridiculous that radio stations should be concerned about the DMCA. If they have the rights to broadcast the songs, they should be able to do it on whatever media. People can record things off of the radio onto tapes, and people can record things off of digital radio into mp3 files, that's not the radio station's responsibility.
~ now you know
If a radio station broadcast over the air or over TCP/IP -- in what way is it different for them. In fact it is MUCH easier to copy over the air than TCP/IP as the medium is much widely available and accessible. This is just a stupid reaction by the stations.
Karma stuck at 50? Add 2-5 inches.. err.. 2-5x Karmas Count to your pen1es.. err.. Karma all naturally and private
People won't pay more for less-usable stuff with arbitrary restrictions. Ain't that a revelation...
Seems people aren't that dumb after all to automatically prefer somthing just because it's "digital".
This is good news, isn't it?
Make even shorter URLs - 8LN.org
This should be a good lesson in what happens when people get too greedy for their own good.
Shouldn't this article be titled something different? AFAIK MP3 is still alive and kicking, and so is the CD, which is certainly digital music. Just because radio stations can't make money streaming doesn't put the future of digital music in doubt.
Where's my lobbyist? Right here.
Why use a low quality web broadcast from a radio station when you can get a shoutcast with a 128, or higher bit rate from any joe with a huge MP3 collection and a fat pipe.
Along these lines, CNN reported about a study that shows a "flat future" for digital music. The story is ati ta l.music/index.html. It was done by Gartner technology research.
http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/08/30/dig
The study was of 4000 Internet-using adults. One half of the people surveyed use their PCs to play CDs, but only one quarter have played downloadable music. Only 6 percent, during a study period during the spring, purchased music online (and this seems to be a high figure to me, IMHO).
The study shows that the record company services are a bust, and that people are not likely to pay for services like Napster since they are used to getting it for free.
It looks like, for now, the record companies are successful at killing an entire new industry and business model through lawsuits and other DMCA stupidity. I personally don't think its dead forever, but it certainly is on a downhill trail.
"Yes.. no matter what the culture, folk dancing is stupid." -MST3K
It amazes me how often "Industry Pundits" refer to the internet as "New Media," and then post dire warnings about the future of the internet when "Old Media" companies discover that their models don't fit.
So old-school internet radio stations aren't going to continue streaming their broadcasts? This is supposed to spell the end of internet radio?
People turn to internet radio to avoid the homogeneous crap that they're stuck with from "old school" radio stations. I don't want to have to choose between the latest mass-produced alternative and pop crap, I want to be able to hear, say, reggae, or ska, or funk, or whatever other type of music, out of the billions out there, that I can't hear on the rregular radio because it has become so streamlined that it must appeal to the lowest common denominator.
Let's face it, radio sucks. Internet radio, on the other hand, with its ability to stream countless different styles of music, holds a lot of promise to me.
So good riddance to the old school. Let them keep propagating their useless, mindless, repetitive crap for the masses, and lets not waste bandwidth on it.
Why should record labels be suprised that people are not interested in paying for online music? The main reason for Napster being successful was that the music was free. You could burn your own CDs. If someone has to pay for it, they might as well buy it in a useful form.
Man, i've always loved the idea of streaming audio. Even a 5 gig mp3 collection can get boring sometimes, and it's nice to be able to listen to some stuff you've never heard or heard of before.
I was kinda hoping that online radio would become stronger in the future, not weaker... oh well.
I'm not sure whom you're trying to deceive, but most Slashdotters wouldn't purchase it even if it had absolutely NO restrictions. As long as there was a no-cost alternative, no matter the ethics, they'd choose that over paying for a product. Go ahead, tell me I'm wrong, I could use a good laugh.
Similar things happended when the BBC cut off their World Service shortwave stream to North America and Australia a couple of months ago, their reasoning was that with high Internet proliferation people could tune into the net instead, or listen via XM radio etc.
However, the BBC doesn't have the Internet rights to most sporting events, so whilst you could listen to a footy match before on shortwave you just get a "sorry we can't bring you this event...." on the net. This is not my idea of progress.
The music industry has a long history of trying to get the consumer to pay more for less. Sometimes it works (price premium for CDs), sometimes it doesn't (CD singles).
I have a feeling that this time it won't work; consumers seem to be getting tired of getting ripped off.
I found some pretty cool stations over the years. No surprise the RIAA is asking for more money, though. Personally, I don't see why logistically, royalties should be charged twice, once for broadcast, once for stream. Arn't they both played from the same programming scheduale? What's the rationale behind justifying an additional fee? Do similar copyright fee schemes show up in television broadcast .. where two fees are charged from the same programming if it is broadcast over two 'mediums'?
I do accept that many of these radio stations wern't getting a bigger listener base because of their online streams, so maybe it just wasn't worth the hassle.
"Old man yells at systemd"
Listened to the program last night on my way home last night.
It's a shame that all there are so many rules being imposed on internet broadcasters, but I doubt many of them would have survived for long anyways -- the bandwidth is expensive, and for the listeners, the typically low bit-rate stream is just annoying (well, at least if you're trying to listen to music).
Ok let me get this straight radio stations have found webcasting to be non-profitable so they're droping it. Gee that kinda makes sense now dosen't it. Oh and there could possibly be some legal issues with doing something that's both not profitable and actually hard to do. Oh and they have to buy a license to use the streaming software depending on the number of listeners they have, with a maximum number of 1000. Well lets see $10,000+ dollars for 1000 listeners. At $10 a listener I can see why the radio station might drop webcasting. Oh and to the guy who said that radio stations all ready have the rights to play. Well not really I belive that back in the 60's the studios gave the stations free music and even payed them to play it. Today the stations have to pay the studios to play there music over the radio.
of why radio stations buy broadcast licenses of music rather than going down to Sam Goody and buying the $15 comsumer version.
They have no reason to fear prosecution from the DMCA unless their current broadcast licenses specifically state the broadcast medium that the license is good for.
Essentially, radio stations couldn't park a Van mini-station at public events and play music to all to hear unless their broadcast license allowed it.
Basically, this tells me that a lot of radio stations need to either hire better lawyers that aren't afraid to exercise their license rights, or they need to negotiate new licenses that include streaming audio as a valid broadcasting medium.
Meanwhile, there's a study circulating saying that people don't and won't purchase heavily restricted music online at higher prices for a less useful item. This is apparently a revelation to the music industry.
:(
:)
This is a good point and indeed a revelation to the e-book industry as well. Its sad that all the corporations just don't get it. We are not going to pay more for a less restrictive format just because your marketing execs who use AOL think its cool and "chic". Also, I just got a message from Live365 (huge internet radio broadcasting house) the other day saying they will begin charging for new users in October
Glad they are keeping what they call "founder radio stations" like mine free.. thanks Live365
JOhn
Campaign for Liberty
My guess is the Net as we know it will end up near the bottom of the staggered release cycle for new products. Just as movies generally go from 1) first run theatres 2) dollar houses 3) pay per view 4) DVD 5) VHS 6) Cable 7) broadcast, and books go from hardcover to paperback, songs as well as movies will end up on the Net after the other, more easily limitable distribution methods are milked. Broadcast radio traditionally hasn't fallen into this because it's used as a promotional tool to sell packages, and streaming music *should* also be used the same way. But it will eventually find its position somewhere.
-- Sigs are for losers
Consumers won't pay more for a product that's less useful and harder to use.
We really needed a study and a Slashdot article to figure that one out? I wish the RIAA would get their heads out of their asses and realize that the more they lock down their product and the more they restrict it, the less someone's going to buy it.
No wait, I hope they don't, and they run their little organization right into the ground.
-------------------------------------------------
is because people with modem connections wouldn't want to waste 95% of their bandwidth for spotty radio when they could just turn on the radio or start playing cds (or mp3s) of their own. in the meantime the people who had connections that could easily handle the load and not blink (which until recently was mostly only college affiliates) were either downloading all the mp3s of the songs they wanted to listen to and listening to the songs themselves. it's clearly a lot more flexible to have the songs yourself and play them whenever you want and in whatever order you want.
so who would listen to the radio over the web, then? people who wanted to listen to specific talk shows that they didn't get, and . . . well, i can't really think of any other good reason to listen to streaming radio via the web. there was no middle ground of connectivity speed that would have been really good for radio (fast enough to handle the load and still be okay for doing other things, but slow enough that it wasn't worth it just to get all the mp3s). it's nobody's fault, really, but radio's just not worth it over the web
I've been saying this ever since the "Big 5" laid out thier plans. Who's going to pay money to "rent" a finite amount of music (lossy compressed at that) for a flat fee each month? Someone did a study (that I can't find right now) showing that the average music fan would pay more to "rent" the music then they would to just buy it on CD. Plus, with a CD I'm free to rip it, make a compilation CD out of it, put it on tape, etc.
The only way digital music will take off is if a) the record companies make it the only avenue of delivery (they're dumb, but they're not that dumb) or b) add value or make it cheaper. Since they're taking away value (compressed, timebombed and player restricted) they better damn well make it cheap.
For the near future I think (legitimate) digital music will only succeed as a promotional item. I.e. free streaming of upcoming albums for a day, free b-sides, etc.
If I understand it correctly, this is essentially an issue of licensing. Any syndicated content they recieve is licensed to them to play in their geographical market. However if they stream it over the internet, they aren't just playing it in their market anymore. This opens them up to a possible lawsuit from the content providers should they want to make it.
This wasn't a problem for a long time, but now a lot of these syndicators want to stream their content live over the internet themselves and cut out the radio station middle men. So they are now using their previously neglected rights to a monopoly on Rush Limbaugh or Dr. Laura, or whomever else. They are also backing it up with lawsuits for people who don't comply.
It sucks for me because the only decent traffic station in northern Delaware is WDEL and they have now stopped real audio streaming over these legal issues. Hence I am getting caught in huge traffic jams on I95 I would have previously driven around on alternate routes.
So far I've gotten all my Karma from telling people they are wrong... :)
You're wrong.
Pass on the laughter. Make someone else smile.
sin(6cos(r)+5A)
This has been understood by the music industry all along. They are just playing dumb to the matter. The music industry is starving off as much online activity as possible and why not? They have an extremely lucrative monopoly on music distribution and broadcast. Any change from the norm, no matter how positive for the consumer, is nothing but a threat to this money machine.
Since IANAMIG (I am not a music industry guru) I sit back and wonder why more independant music isn't free on the Internet. Like free software it may be the best way to get noticed when another product dominates the commercial market eg. Gimp. I don't know if current laws prevent such distribution or if there are too few artists unwilling to give their work away or if I just haven't been looking in the right places. I have to look at the Grateful Dead policy toward recording concerts (you can record and distribute but you can't profit from the music - you can charge for media, shipping etc.) and wonder why this isn't more prevalent. Are most like my musician friends from high school - just waiting to make millions when they are discovered by a big recording label?
Hrmm...
When Marilyn Manson's "Holy Wood" was released I had the resources available to download, for free, every song from the CD in a high-quality digital format from a number of sources. I did actually download one of the songs, and after listening to it I purchased the CD.
But I guess I'm not 'most Slashdotters'.
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
Come on. We hear this constantly. The 'Old-world' media and news organizations telling us how the 'New-world' internet has no future, or how (insert threatened business model here) won't work on the internet, blah blah blah.
SO WHAT?
It's not going away; digital music WILL stay, whether the 'old-school' industries like it or not. Same for most other aspects of the net. Just because your old business models don't fit doesn't mean society won't use or accept it.
Mp3's don't sit on your shelf. It's a bit vain, but music defines your personality, and having CDs on your shelf puts your personality on display. No one ever comes to visit and looks through your mp3 collection.
I know that people agree with this, not everyone of course, but in general, people like the ritual of listening to music. I only ever downloaded mp3s because it was free. Rituals are great but free is free. If I liked enough mp3s from an artist, I bought the CD. An mp3 was never a substitute for the Real Thing.
Take all this away from someone, and then restrict it to hell and it just won't work. Mp3s are just not as highly regarded as CDs. How many audiophiles listen to mp3s over CDs? This will fall by the wayside like eBooks for sale. Mp3s will be pirated and the consumers will save their dollars for CDs.
So digital music is being pushed out of the marketplace until someone can make a useful product out of it? Makes sense to me. Why should I listen to streaming radio when I can listen to a real station that has better quality and ads for places that are at least in my vicinity. And no, I don't particularly want to listen to the BBC.
As for digital music sales, someone has to make money there. No one makes money off mp3, so all they will do is fight it. For legitimate sales, they'll have to wait until someone comes out with a product that gives consumers more of what they want. As you mention, that isn't higher prices or more restrictions.
Even Slashdot wants to hide some things
I scrounge Usenet and P2P networks for MP3's. If I find one that's interesting, I download (or even buy , if it's really good) the rest of the album.
Cons: Occasional MP3 distortion from a poorly encoded MP3
Benefits: No FM Station audio 'loudness' compression. Never wait for a song to come on. With my trusty CD-RW, I can listen to a song anywhere... Home, Work, Car. More variety: I had never seriously considered most tencho and electronica before downloading MP3's.
Radio stations, especially those who play top 40, distort music and play what the record companies want to be popular instead of what the listeners like. Most are owned by only a few companies. Hear of Cirrus Broadcasting? Before they deregulated broadcasting, there were several pop and rock stations in Amarillo. Now there is one rock, one pop, one r&b, and about 50 country and Tejano stations. Thanks, but I'll stick to Gnutella and Usenet!
"Don't be alarmed by the tone of my voice. Check out my new weapon, a weapon of choice" - Fatboy Slim.
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
Well, some friends of mine have actually written a piece of streaming radio software that they license to whosoever wants to run the software. I've set up two stations for one of their clients who purchased a license. I'm currently not running any commercials or even any filler talk. It's just all music. The great thing is that I could upload my entire music library and create playlists using that library as well as the music from other contributors. Some of the other contributors have set up stations with music, dj chatter, commercials and other filler. It really is a fine little piece of software and is poised to go places.
For more on the company developing this software go to Slam Media.
If you'd like to check out my stream, Piecemeal, copy and paste this URL into your favorite streaming media player. http://216.200.125.40:8000/MP00000000000000000145
Note: not your average top 40 playlist. King Crimson fans will probably love it.
Pooty tweet
I listened to this report when it was broadcast yesterday, via WUNC's ShoutCast web stream. The radio piece is not as negative as the written article; in fact it ends on an upbeat. It really is worth a listen.
It's like streaming video, Internet movies, all that stuff -- it's simply not practical with the bandwidth and hardware normal people have. If you're a college student on a Napster-free network, network multimedia is barely worthwhile. For a typical user on a 56K dial-up, playing music on an eMachine speaker, it's just not happening.
It will happen, of course.
Another factor is 1998's Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), which requires Webcasters to pay an additional fee for music over the Internet. Broadcasters sued the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) over the fee, and lost. Now the argument is over the amount of the fee -- the RIAA wants Webcasters to pay up to 15 percent of their revenues, but Webcasters argue for a rate that's about 30 times lower than that.
This isn't the sort of attack on fair-use that makes the DMCA evil. It's something the market will sort out, when there's money to be made. Right now, there isn't.
Why did we pay more? Because CDs were generally better than records, more durable, smaller, etc. You could argue that digitially distributed music is better because it's eaiser to acquire, you just download it rather than having to trot down to the store or wait three days for the order to arrive via the mail. So you could argue that there's more value in digitally distributed musice, therefore we should pay more for it.
Of course, I don't buy this argument. I still buy very few CDs because I hate being ripped off and I doubt I'd buy digially distributed music. I'm not sure about the renting idea, but if you they could sell music (instead of renting it) I'd bet this would catch on.
I think this statemend of digital media death, is not apropriate. However you look at the issue, MP3s will always be there. Take people like me for example, I have a music collection that takes over 120GB of space. There is no way I will go back to CDs or even pay for any of it. This is what i-net is for. The 'true' land of opportunity, where everything is possible.
The music industry stands screaming about artists
royalties, and the fact that they created something
that everyone is trying to get for free.
The industry fails to tell you that typically less
than $1.00 of each $20 cd you buy goes to the
artist for their hard work, and we all know how
much blank cdr's cost (hence labels MUST be paying
a fraction of that cost at the gargantuan quantity
they buy).
Why can't they just come out and tell the world that
they are a bunch of greedy fucks that see their
world and their riches slipping by after decades
of putting out one-hit albums and screwing artists?
The world has fundamentally changed in that people
do NOT feel that the music is worth $20 per cd, and
do NOT feel it's fair to get home after buying
the majority of the cd's out there only to find
TEN filler songs for every hit! Music has become
free in minds, though not in fact.
A year spent in artificial intelligence is enough to make one believe in God.
people don't and won't purchase heavily restricted music online at higher prices for a less useful item.
It's interesting that the article never seems to see this point. They simply make the statement that people don't seem to want to buy music online.
I for one would pay for music online, but I would never buy into anything that would attempt to lock me down to a single machine/os/player/provider. That's just useless to me.
For now it makes a lot more sense for me to buy the cd and rip it. Now I can access my whole collection from work and home and wherever else that I have the bandwidth to pull them down.
The current solutions appear to be building a great straw-man to get nocked down and 'prove' that online music is a bad idea.
When Marilyn Manson's "Holy Wood" was released I had the resources available to download, for free, every song from the CD in a high-quality digital format from a number of sources. I did actually download one of the songs, and after listening to it I purchased the CD.
This is *not* uncommon. MP3 and digital music doesn't give the full experience that we (anyone 18 or over) are used to with an album. You don't get graphics and it's damn near impossible to hear an album as a performance (like Dark Side of the Moon).
I've read that the 18 and younger croud no longer see the album graphics as part of the full package, and lord knows that we don't see concept albums anymore... so maybe this is going to change.
So.. at least for us, MP3 has the same attributes as the radio. We might get a couple of tracks, but when it comes down too it we want the whole package. Maybe when digital music can mimick this (and not sell single tracks for $2) it will be a little more appealing.
"Yes.. no matter what the culture, folk dancing is stupid." -MST3K
I don't know how everyboyd else does it, but I find new music through streaming radio stations (especially good ones like Sonicnet). There's no way that I could afford to buy as mcuh music as they stream, and even if I did have infinite money, or I could find everything online, I wouldn't have any clue as to what I wanted to buy/download. And, the variety on some of these places (like Sonicnet) is unbelievable. Without having to download literally thousands of MP3's and categorize them, I can just choose a type of music, hit play, and it'll play for hours and hours (sometimes days) before I hear a single repeat. Sure, it's got ads like regular radio, but I can get radio stations that I could NEVER get over the air (like electronica stations), and the playlists are huge. Personally, I'm not going to give up listening to streaming radio online anytime soon.
Compares this to the wearable computer market. I think xybernaut nearly went out of business ... everybody (read : every geek) wants a wearable, but not many people want to pay 2-4k for one.
It isn't like these technologies are dead (like internet retail was said to be in 94-97). Everybody jumped on it before it really became a good idea. Five years down the road when we have better wireless and more broadband, everybody will be surprised by the 'rebirth' of net-radio. :)
Jack Valenti and the MPAA are to technology as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone
i am not sure how well known this is - none of the people i work with or know knew about it - but there is a new 'radio' service coming out pretty soon. its called 'xm radio'. they are throwing two geosynchronous (i think thats the term) satellites up - one over the west, the other over the east - that will broadcast content.
from what i can gather it's $10 a month for 100 'stations' - some of the programming looks pretty sweet. plus the devices can move from car to home - sony makes one (thats always a good sign).
the major drawback is probably reception in areas with lots of tall buildings and having to have a view of a particular 'horizon' a la DirecTV.
i read some of their legal-ese and it mentions reverse-engineering along with the other normal stuff. but i am sure that the hardware hackers are going to have a blast with this.
"Oh, you hate your job? There's a support group for that, it's called everyone, they meet at the bar."
Can anyone detail how a "real" radio station operates?
SuperID
Free Database Hosting for Developers
Even the implementation of schemes to scramble or degrade the signal for copies is ultimately futile. To paraphrase the opinion of Emmanuel Goldstein from his WBAI show, "If you can play it back, it is decoded, and you can copy it." It does not matter what level of encryption is implemented for digital music. The playback necessitates a conversion to an easily copyable form, i.e. sound waves, which can be reencoded in various ways, from placing a microphone next to the playback advice to copying the signal through some kind of analog receiver.
It is a similar situation for e-books. Once the content is viewable, it can be copied, even by retyping or photographing the resultant output. And as soon as a single "pirated" copy is made available, those with access can acquire it for free.
The size and scope of the music industry is a recent phenomenom. Only since the early 1950's were saleable recording considered a lucrative pursuit. The modern behemoths have only existed as such since the late 1960's. Now that they have lost control, we see them flailing about to prevent a loss in market-share and income that will inevitably increase with consumer broadband access and the power of the average desktop computer. After all, who would pay for "intellectual property" when they can receive an exact copy for free over a relatively anonymous file-sharing network?
Copyright and music industry pundits see this trend as an ominous sign of disrespect for music, capitalism, creativity and the hard-work of the creators. Recent trends are likely to improve the situation of the individual artists, who, with cheap, good audio software and fatpipe connections, will be able to distribute directly to consumers and bypass the whole music-industrial complex completely. For a few thousand dollars, a musician can have a decent home studio comprised of professional-level gear, VST audio software and sequencing/sampling packages such as Cubase, ProTools and Logic.
A modern musical group or musician sees something like 10-15% of their profits after all the industry-types take a cut. While some of this is due to the high cost of touring, much of it is for usage of company recording studios, garnering media attention and the production of saleable units such as CD's. Now that each musician or band can be their own cottage industry, we should see an increase in individual musicians' "paychecks" and a decrease in control by corporations. Especially once on-line cash schemes start to proliferate, the market for grassroots types to create their own individual music industries, channels and styles should become easier over time.
I see the current situation as one with vast opportunities. The current "troubles" will be followed by a huge proliferation in both the number and diversity of musical acts eager to distribute their products throughout the world, and I am all for it. If the dominance of the huge mega-bands and stars fades due to copyright-infringement and piracy and a leveling of the current "playing field," so be it. For me, these musical types are more a manifestation of the capitalist and image-oriented facets of popular culture than the expression of any genuine musical artistry or feeling.
As a proud owner of a ADSL line and a 10MBit Ethernet connection (at a diffrent location), I have no problem downloading MP3 music from the net.
Ofcourse you need to back up and save your music if you want to keep it, eiter by using CDs or other temporary backup measures. The problem with purchasing music online (by contrast to, say, pirating it is that you are limited by arbitrary restrictions. See the e-book junk for example.
Make even shorter URLs - 8LN.org
Go ahead, tell me I'm wrong, I could use a good laugh.
You're wrong.
What? Laughter but no applause? I'm gonna have to fire the guy who presses the button that lights up the sign.
Seriously, I suspect a majority of Slashdotters do still buy CDs. Of course, I'm sure there's also a considerable portion that have stopped. But it can't be near the halfway point yet, because the focus around here is still often on things like Linux, as opposed to pirating Windows.
Funny you should mention that. I too downloaded a few songs off that album and decided that they were so shitty that I didn't even want them taking up any space on my hard drive. In this case, mp3 definitely let me know that I didn't want to spend any cash on the cd.
-- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
Not enough people have broadband yet. That's why the radio stations aren't seeing the increase in listenership they were expecting. They are giving up on their streams too soon. Come back in 5, 3, maybe 2 years and the economics of this will be completely different. Problem is, this has left them with a bad taste in their mouths and they may be disinclined to try streaming again even though the economics would support it.
AFTRA members deserve a somewhat larger fee when their work is streamed -- but not so much larger that it makes streaming unviable. They are just shooting themselves in the foot in that case. Same goes for the RIAA's streaming fee. What do you want to bet those fees were negotiate near the peak of the dot com bubble? Now that the bubble has burst, they should certainly be renegotiated. Better yet, the fee structure should be made a dynamic function of online listenership, so that streaming remains viable whether the online listenership grows as expected or not.
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
for many radio stations (like, for example, ABC affilliate WLS AM, newstalk out of Chicago), the problem had little or nothing to do with music royalties and everything to do with advertising. If you pay the voice talent for a local ad because yours is a local radio station, but then you stream the advertising over the internet, how does the voice talent get reimbursed for the increased potential audience? Do you base the new royalty structure on number of listeners, or is it de facto an international audience? How do you determine "prime time" vs. off hours when your potential audience is global? Additionally, how do you justify this increased ad cost to Bob's Mattress Shoppe, who's not likely to benefit from advertising in Japan?
For WLS AM, apparently, the advertising royalty issue was the driving factor to their taking down the stream. I can't help but assume this was a major factor for most other radio stations, music-oriented or not, albeit one they might not want to discuss. Labor relations are always a sticky wicket, whereas music royalties for digital media is already such a widely discussed topic that it's easy for them to point the finger that way without seeming like a heartless employer.
I'll weep about the DMCA and those additional royalties in a second.
Commercial (and even non-commercial) radio in the United States has an extremely serious problem: It all sounds the same.
Where I live (Seattle) has a few stations which are worth listening to. The classical music station, The underground/rock music station, The folk music station, and of course The extremely annoying dance music station. (I'm not a big dance music fan, but if you want to feel like you're in a disco, even when you're not, it's a good thing).
The other 30 stations on the dial are utterly, completely interchangable. There's a station which plays all the hits from 1968-1972. Over and over. Just like every other big city in the US. Imagine that! There's three "alternative" music stations which alternate between K0RN, the Beastie Boys, and Shania Twain (there must be something alternative about her, but God knows what). Even NPR, which I wake up to every morning, does not sound a bit different if I listen in NYC, Atlanta, or San Francisco. They have All Things Considered, they have Car Talk on Saturdays, they have a mid-day call in program to talk about local politics. Who woulda thunk it?
So, if I want to listen to K0RN, or Stairway to Heaven (for the 6.02x10^23rd time!), or even listen to Fresh Air, I have this highly sophisticated device to do that. I call it a "radio". There is no imaginable reason why I would waste bandwidth and hassle to get a streaming media connection to do that.
For Internet Radio to be a success, you must first put out product which is different enough to provide value added. In this way, content is just like every other business.
j.
i have payed for one Microsoft product my entire life: visual basic dev studio, just so I could get J++. I no longer buy MS because they FUCKED me on that. I did however just buy a boxed copy of Redhat 7.1 -- becaues they have a decent product and im willing to support it. So, as you wish, "you're wrong." -- hey, stop laughing...
________________________________________________
Basically it comes down to who gets paided what.
What I really find intresting is in the RIAA's faq (http://www.riaa.com/Licensing-Licen-3a.cfm) and read the section on "What are the conditions that a webcaster has to meet in order to qualify for the statutory license?".
Makes you wanna go start your own country.
III.IIVIVIXIIVIVIIIVVIIIIXVIIIXIIIIIIIIVIIIIVVIII
If (corporate) music online had no restrictions, that would imply the industry finally understood that their rights end where yours and mine begin. That day that happens will be a long time coming, I'm certain.
But I think the industry will undergo an attitude adjustment, however slight, with each sale it loses not only to restrictive policies but prohibitive prices (however subjective those terms are) as well. When said adjustment is complete, I'll buy.
It doesn't help your argument to assume even most of us are thieves. I think most of us would respond positively to good value for the money. Have we ever really been offered it?
Those who can, do. Those who can't, write technology blogs.
What do customers want? Ask Napster.
Fast, accurate searching
Comprehensive database of content
Fast download
Fair price -- and only pay for what you use
Compatibility with customer's player of choice
Ease of use
Napster and mp3 set the standard for these things. People often won't pay where a free alternative exists, but they will pay if an alternative is (perceived) better.
You can't have significantly less compatibility than mp3 and expect consumers to embrace it. I'm not going to open Winamp for my personal collection of ripped mp3's and some other player for "secure" music. You can't make it harder to play, where you have to have a key to open, blah, blah. What if I want to play the song somewhere other than my desktop PC? <sarcasm>Oh, it's less portable than mp3 or even a physical CD? Count me in!</sarcasm>
One day, the record companies will start developing a solution around customer needs, not their own. Until then, they'll try to spoon-feed us DivX for music. And fail.
Robotiq.com is heavily tested on animals
The article actually places much of the blame for this censorship on a greedy union.
I used to work for a couple of radio stations. Our formats ranged from 'rock' to county to sports-talk. The rock station was all local. The country was all canned from a satellite network. The sports talk had some local programming plus programming from a couple other networks, including a sports team or two. Well, hell...we damned the torpedoes and streamed 'em all 24-7 when I was there. However, soon after I left (and I knew this was coming) that the networks were going to start bitching. They want people to listen from their own sites...not from yours. Problem is, most of the non-do-it-yourself streaming services had the ability to automate turning off and on the streaming or providing a way that the streaming would automatically switch over to the network's stream. There's tons of these companies out there that think they can make money on a model of providing streaming services for radio stations. I had 2 of them go bellyup on me while I was there. Pretty expensive for a radio station to do it on their own. Remember...this is radio where nobody makes money. You sell ads to the autoparts store and they give the GM 4 snow tires for his car. It's only going to get worse. I hope MLB doesn't find out about this station, 'cause I think they still stream the games that their an affiliate for. Which rocks now that you have to PAY to listen to MLB on the internet. The commercialization is beginning as the networks are also jumping on the bandwagon. They see potential profits. Yet, I contend, someone's going to find ways to do it and make money and make people like AFTRA, the RIAA, etc. happy.
What is worse is that its more in your face now.
Thanks Trolls for making slashdot a flavourfull site to visit.
Isn't that obvious, it would be like me buying a more expensive car with less options over the internet. I wouldn't do it.
On top of that, these players are not very secure: they put the content out the speakers while denying me the ability to record the stream.
Since I am not a music industry guru, I sit back and wonder why more independent music isn't free on the Internet.
I sit back and wonder how you managed not to discover MP3.com, Trax in Space, and other similar sites that showcase independent music.
Are most like my musician friends from high school - just waiting to make millions when they are discovered by a big recording label?
I believe that the people in the music business solely for the money do not deserve to be in the music business. Very few artists make millions of US dollars; Courney Love did the math on a typical recording contract and found that the majority of royalties that appear to go back to the artist actually go toward "recoupable" expenses.
(My largest barrier to composing music is coming up with an original melodic hook so I don't get sued. Any hints?)
Will I retire or break 10K?
With some tech making minimum wage, piping a broadcast signal of boy-band crap to transmitters in 50 different cities? Well at least they'll customize the radio commercials for you, so you can find out where all the failing discos and overpriced dating services are in your local area. Lucky bastard, you.
The most recent example of this happening for me was with the Legendary Marvin Pontiac: Greatest Hits album:
- I heard some unidentified tracks on a streaming radio station
- A Google Search turned up the name of the musician: Marvin Pontiac.
- Repeated Gnutella searches turned up only two more songs, which I liked even more than the first one I heard.
- I ran down to the record store and bought the album.
In my mind, the perfect symbiosis of internet radio, mp3, and full album. Make sure you check out Marvin Pontiac too!Guvegrra?
As a hobbyist artist, I agree with everything you said. Personally, I'm going to start releasing all of my music under the Open Audio license. If the word gets out about this, and artists start releasing music under it, the major corporation's will lose control in such a way as they cannot litigate against.
I have no idea what sort of rights the radio stations have. Lawyers are, in general, a cautious breed, so I am not surprised that a radio station's lawyers would be concerned about streaming if the station's contract doesn't specifically allow for it.
Perhaps someone who is in the radio industry and/or a lawyer could fill us in.
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
Quite naturally, holders of power wish to suppress wild research. Unrestricted questing after knowledge has a long history of producing unwanted competition. The powerful want a "safe line of investigations," which will develop only those products and ideas that can be controlled and, most important, that will allow the larger part of the benefits to be captured by inside investors. Unfortunately, a random universe full of relative variables does not insure such a "safe line of investigations."
I listened to the story on All Things Considered last night, and I laughed when I heard that the RIAA was worried about streaming radio stations on the internet announcing what they were going to play before it was played because people might record it. It would not be any higher quality, and if anything WORSE quality than if you were to record it off the radio. Commonly net broadcasts get cut out due to bandwidth, or sound distorted. I also am rather surprised that this 'fee' that has been setup for online royalties is retroactive, that's not right. But what's eventually going to happen I guess is that the RIAA will sue so many people for so much that they won't be able to continue to run the radio stations, and then the record companies will own the stations, or at least the controlling share of them, then we will get nothing except for what they want to give us. But it won't be a monopoly in the governments eyes, because there will be enough different record companies. Time Warner will control all your media from your internet connection, to your cable tv, to your music on your radio, and you'll sign onto everything using a Microsoft Passport and be billed per the minute off of an authentication server......
[Something witty and intelligent should have appeared here.]
{Traicovn}
Great post! If I had any moderator points left I'd mod it up that last little bit so more people could read it, but I don't think you'll have that problem anyway.
You outlined a number of things that have been on my mind in recent months. For one, if I can hear it, see it, feel it, etc., I can copy it. Finding clever ways to stop that will only delay the inevitable, you are building sand walls against the tide.
Also, the current music industry is not the way it has always been. It was only practical to make recordings of singers after microphone and recording technology was able to make a reasonable copy of the way it sounded originally.
At this point, it is still necessary to have a few thousand dollars to make a quality home studio, but I think even that price will continue to plummet in coming years. Look at Demudi [demudi.org]. It is obvious that at this point the whole Linux side of the recording/editing/sequencing field is fairly weak. It will not stay that way. Also, look at the extrememly low cost of programs like Acid Music, right off the shelf. These give Pro Tools type functionality without Pro Tools cost.
I think soon we will be living William Gibson's vision of the Garage Kubrick. Very soon the line in quality between talented amateur and seasoned pro will be very much blurrier. I can't wait to see that day.
"He's more machine now than man, twisted and evil."
"Meanwhile, there's a study circulating saying that people don't and won't purchase heavily restricted music online at higher prices for a less useful item. This is apparently a revelation to the music industry."
(Meanwhile, back in the RIAA-cave...)
Holy Over-Prosecuted Russians, Ms. Rosen! People don't want to pay more for less?!?! Since when?
We never saw this coming!
Quick, gather your finest demographers and statisticians to study this. The fate of Gotham depends on it!
ShoutingMan.com
Claric
There's no problem that cannot be solved with a suitable amount of high explosives
Admit it, you pirate music and you like it. I know I sure do. If they can play it on the airwaves for free, I should be able to download it for free. The recording industry needs to die and I'm not above stealing from them to hasten their death.
The organizational meeting of the Jon Katz appreciation society has been postponed. It will be held on the slashnet IRC channel #JonKatzIsGod on Monday at 5pm.
Jon has assured me that the "boxers vs. briefs" debate will be held. There will also be a Jon Katz expert that will talk about his affect on social stuctures and economic trends in the homosexual native american tribes in the Pacific northwest.
We'll then ajourn to the private pool for "fun".
It seems that America is going to be left behind again in terms of commercial use of technology to Asian countries ... this time because silly companies wish to maintain their source of revenue. It's not really dissimilar from what Microsoft is doing in the software industry, except that the recording industry was smart enough to get it put into law. (Must've made some legislators rich, though).
... and they are getting a LOT of listenership. They've got settop Internet boxes which can now function as radios! I also know that a lot of Koreans working abroad (specifically in north America) "tune in" to these radio broadcasts.
I know that several Korean radio stations broadcast on the Internet as well as OTA
Alas! Americans have been left out again (See cellphone short-messaging)
That guy may not like the BBC, but you don't have to put up with any crappy commercials what so ever, or crappy boy bands, you'd be suprised, you can listen and come away knowing something.
A lot of supporting points have been made regarding these doubts, but I believe that XM Radio (or something like it) has a good chance of putting digital music into ever home, car, and office.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
... at least in some cases.
I live in a small market (Moscow, Idaho/Pullman, WA). Other than Top 40 and Country, it's pretty tough for anything to be profitable. Because of two universities, there are some "alternative" radio stations, but they aren't playing anything I'm interested in.
But I like jazz. And bluegrass. Neither of those gets played on the radio, and it wouldn't make any sense for anyone to do it. I'm just out of the range of a jazz station run by Eastern Washington University in Cheney, WA.
There aren't enough jazz or bluegrass listeners in my area to make for a profitable venture. But on the internet? You better believe it.
The trick, of course, is to come up with a viable revenue model.
Also, I can't listen to internet radio at work, because of "no personal use" rules. That certainly limits my availablity as a customer/listener.
It's a tough market, and there are definitely some obstacles, but the potential is there.
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso
Lets see.. AFTRA wants more money because it's so hard to read out loud for a living. I'm sure they have to deal with all sorts of injuries and lawsuits. I hear those headsets they wear can cause serious hearing loss. Really.. the radio stations need to grow some balls. Tell them to f-ck off. It's not like the they're targeting a whole new market, it's only a subset of the current market. (if your listening to radio over the internet, you listen or used to listen over the radio) They are acting like this is some new untapped resource when in reality it's not. I think the radio stations need to stand up for themselves and tell these licensing vultures that they won't pay anymore and they'll take their business elsewhere. The radio DJ's have powerful control over the success of music. If the radio DJ's refuse to play a song on the radio, that song just isn't going to sell very well, no matter how good it is. (I could be wrong..) So why don't they use their incredible social influence and tell the RIAA and AFTRA to piss off?
"I murder kittens, robot. Whats it to 'ya?" - Badguy
I don't see that happening, though. Listening to random new stuff on MP3.com makes it clear that most of those bands are going to stay in the garage. There hasn't been a major "Internet band", and it's probably too late for one. Back in 1999, a good band with enough page hits could have done an IPO. Didn't happen.
Happy now? Ya killed off online music. Well thank fucking god that all the starving artists will get to ride around in limo hottubs filled with Crystal and getting head from bootie Ho's. Wasn't that the argument?
I hope all you toadies and buttsuckers for the record industry are satisfied with lower volume sales and buyer apathy. All hail the muthafuckin RIAA !
It's self defeating and stupid and I expect record sales to fall much faster than the much hyped recession we are in. Those old school farts, if anything as new as 1960 can be called old, won't think of the internet as a real medium until they can make money off it. They really might Belive all that BS about Napster ruining their sales. Ha! Napster is dead, where's the sales, you fools? Their altenative to complete dominance of internet distribution is extiction, but who'd have thunk up the current market in 1950?
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
To this end, two major groups have been formed. MusicNet and pressplay. MusicNet has support from RealNetworks, AOL Time Warner, Bertelsmann AG, EMI Group plc, and Zomba. Pressplay is supported by Sony Music Entertainment and Universal Music Group.
MusicNet says: Our record label partners, BMG, EMI, Warner, and Zomba provide the music that the platform delivers, and RealNetworks, America Online, and Napster will distribute the platform to their subscribers nationwide. MusicNet plans to expand its offerings and is in ongoing discussions with both major and independent labels.
While pressplay claims: The service, which will be available in the U.S. by late summer through a broad array of affiliates, announced its first affiliate relationship in April of this year, joining together with Yahoo! Inc. to form an alliance through which the pressplay service will be marketed to users of Yahoo! network and Yahoo! Music. pressplay is a stand-alone joint venture equally held by Sony Music Entertainment and Universal Music Group.
It's clear that the "future of digital music", will most likely start with the subscription services offered by these two groups. Of course it may take some time for them to refine their business model into something people are eager to pay money for. None the less, the potential is staggering. In the future people are apt to get exactly what they want for a price that's reasonable.
With digital music you can be a lot more flexible in your product offerings. You can sell things on a track level, and you can group these tracks in any way you want. It's not clear what the pricing model for this would be, but what if you only had to pay $0.5 for a digital track. You could get the latest music you actually listen to, instead of getting the latest CD and skipping the tracks that suck. What if you could play a 30 second sound sample of every track in the Sony catalog? This could be huge for music discovery (possibly even more so than radio). What if you belonged to a record club and every piece of music you bought from them was available in digital form for $5/mo. How much would you pay for a subscription to the Pop Top 40?
These are all possibilites for the future, and IMHO show tremendous potential. It's up to them to provide these services at a reasonable price. The problem with Internet radio is that they haven't been able to figure out an attractive pricing model (for users, or advertisers). So while Internet radio may have problems, the future of digital music is very bright indeed.
The record companies can argue that you can still do all of the above -- hear a song someplace, but then isntead of downloading it, you can just go to the record store and listen in there. AFAIK, lots of record stores have things where you can listen to a CD before you buy it. So if you decide it's good, you can buy it, and if you decide it sucks, you can get something else. By restricting your ability to get mp3's, the record company isn't really restricting your ability to pre-evaluate some music.
Now clearly, gnutella searches are a lot more convenient than driving all the way to that store in town that lets you listen to stuff befor eyou buy it, but when it comes down to it, you haven't really lost any abilities.
Even amazon.com lets you preview tracks sometimes...
So the record companies will just say "Well we havne't really taken anyting away from you, so shut up".
-S
And how did they FUCK you on that?
A little bitter you might have to pay a couple hundred bucks for a dev product like the rest of the world? Did that cut into your allowance?
Many european countries have already gone this way as well.
Anyways, check out this site, DigitalRadio.ca, for more info.
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
We've all heard of that dumb dotcom that went broke after they found people would not buy kitty litter over the web. Now music is definitely easier to deliver over the internet than a 20 pound bag of kitty litter, which cannot be sent using TCP/IP. With kitty litter, your cat continues to make a mess while the UPS guy leaves little yellow notes on your door after not ringing the doorbell. This is the biggest advantage that online music has over online kitty litter. Is that enough to save online music from suffering the same fate?
Well, maybe. The kitty litter doesn't suddenly refuse to clump up if you move it to another litterbox. It doesn't "lock up" and cease to cover odors if you get a new cat. You can use a batch of kitty litter for about twice the amount of time that you're "supposed" to (if there are no women in your household). And, you can stock up on kitty litter- getting 5 or 6 bags- without having to worry about the last few bags not working by the time you need them because of some stupid preprogrammed time limit that is backed up by the force of law. And you need kitty litter if you have a cat. Nobody really needs Britney Spears.
What makes them think they're going to pull this off?
I'm not going to pay money for anything that is more crippled than an MP3. (And if I find that I've bought a crippled CD, I will return it and give up on buying newly released CDs from then on unless I know it's a real Redbook CD.) I have enough crap to deal with in my life. I don't want to have to worry about timebombs and player restrictions on each of a thousand songs in a collection. Are they nuts? I'd have to hire someone to keep track of my frigging music collection! Can you imagine planning a party, or an outing to the beach, and having to worry about how many players each of your CDs has been played in, and whether or not it will refuse to play in your new Walkman CD player that you just bought? CDs would go the way of the laserdisc if they worked like that.
I predict these greedy bozos will lose billions in their own version of a dotcom meltdown before they realize that people will simply not allow themselves to be sodomized for the privilege of buying music online.
Yep, believe it or not the USA is not the only country with online radio stations. If you don't mind the fact that you don't understand what the DJ is saying, there are plenty of other radio stations streaming over the internet and playing a much different variety of music. If you get bored of one radio station tune in to something from another country.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
I think that you found the real reason why mp3's are evil (according to the riaa) because I can download a song, find that it sucks ass and then not buy the album. I think it should be less illegal for me to download free songs then it is for radio stations to play the only good song on a cd. Someone buys the cd and then finds the rest of the songs suck, too late you already bought it. I think that is the real fear, they might have to offer quality music instead of the usual crap.
I am 30 and I don't think the cover art matters, also I could download the entire dark side of the moon cd, then print out the cover art and stick it in the cdr cover of my new freshly burned cd. As far as "albums" go, I thought they were terrible in the 70's, tapes weren't much better, and cds kick ass(as long as I burned it myself:)). Next you will say how great 8tracks were, and I won't believe that either.
I think I know what is going to happen with this one.
Wired music fans will not pay $2 per track - $3-$4 per album makes more sense. But people will pay. Why ?
Let me tell you, it is because P2P networks suck and always will. How many times have you downloaded a track to find it badly recorded like it was underwater or confusingly/inconsistently labeled or cut into little bits or with blitting all over the place.
It also tends to be slow - even with Audiogalaxy you sometimes get tracks cut off and terrible download rates.
The answer is centralised servers and a low, low price. People are prepared to pay SOMETHING for the convenience of well labeled, good quality MP3s.
Revenues and profits can be maintained as people will "own" far more music than they do today. For instance I have 14 days worth of continuous music. If everyone owned that much and paid just a little for it publishers and artists could be very well off indeed.
This would also be good from a social perspective. With so much money sloshing around there could be a renaissance in music with creative, innovative acts finally being made available to a more mainstream audience and the non mainstream audience getting even more wacky!
Of course CDs will always be sold for people who like to feel their music and possibly for early releases but I think the future lies in music downloadable in MP3 on demand.
I am going to stick my limb out and suggest that if everything goes right we could be moving to an leisure based economy where music, literature and art is produced and consumed in vast quantities so much so it becomes the basis for the economies of the industrialised West.
I wanted a funny
Say goodbye to libraries, say goodbye to radio, say goodbye to any form of entertainment that you don't have to pay through the ass for. Learn to entertain yourselves.
We believe that the $BIG_MARKET industry leader $REALLY_BIG_COMPANY will dominate. Less established $SMALL_BUT_INTERESTING_COMPANY also competing for the $BIG_MARKET market, will flonder and fail making it's sharholders feel really dumb.
Disclaimer: The Garrner Group recives financial support from $REALLY_BIG_COMPANY the leader in $BIG_MARKET. It is a mere coincdence, we assure you.
Novel theory: Modern Man evolved from psychopath
When their real audio stream goes down, its a big deal because so many regular "listeners" are cut off.
psxndc
The emacs religion: to be saved, control excess.
Because the DJa aren't the ones who decide what not to play any more; they barely decide what they DO play. That's all upper management, and if they don't toe the line they'll probably get fired. And upper management makes their decisions based on how much cash promoters are willing to pay to get their song played.
Some old english dude with a low monotone voice speaking slowly like a retard in a time warp.....sounds like quality radio to me.
Hrm... the news on the hour is like that, for about five minutes. You get music too, the programmes are quite engaging really, but I guess an international outlook doesn't quite work in the US.
This isn't what the article says at all. Michael is now making up news up to back up his beliefs.
"In this case, mp3 definitely let me know that I didn't want to spend any cash on the cd."
And that is exactly how it should be. I've got more than a few cd's I took a chance on at the local record store which turned out not to be my thing. Yeah I could resell them at a used cd place but it's not much good to get a few bucks back on an $18 cd.
The internet is not a broadcast medium. its not designed like radio - the more people listening the more it costs. The people at the top are the dumb ones.
Levis and Nike are surprised that their new marketing plan has fallen through: They hoped selling the counter-fit merchandise they had recovered from raids would be popular.
Plan: make new music format thats such high quality (uncompressed, surround sound, 88Khz, 32-bit) that no-one will want to download the crap versions off the internet... or just put 500 cd-quality tracks on it.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
"The record companies can argue that you can still do all of the above -- hear a song someplace, but then isntead of downloading it, you can just go to the record store and listen in there. AFAIK, lots of record stores have things where you can listen to a CD before you buy it."
Like the rest of their arguments, this one would be complete bullsh*t as well. Where, for example, do you hear Native American music played on the radio, and how many cd's from that genre can be previewed at the store? Practically no where, and practically zero, and this is true for more genres then it isn't.
"should" - as in: they can't right now by the way laws are written, but they should be able to use whatever media
~ now you know
In Canada, where the DMCA does not exist, and laws are generally more relaxed and reasonable, I would like to note that one of my favorite radio stations streams Mix 99.9, and It seems that streaming has had some impact on their listener base. During request shows, frequently they annouce requests from listeners around the world that are streaming the station and emailing their requests. Whether or not this maps to meaning it has been successful for that station, I don't know. However at least they arn't running from the internet in fear of poorly designed and dismally executed laws.
More Caffeine. NOW
What you forgot to mention was that you had 10 megbytes free...
I certainly won't buy mp3 online (imagine, the cost of mp3 + the cost of bandwith to download the mp3 + the space that occupies on my disk + almost no garanties that it will work) and I can't see any _good_ reason that anybody should buy online. Of course, if I like the music I will buy the CD, and the more they attempt to negate this right from me, the less I buy from them.
Simple as that for me.
When Cds replaced vinyl discs.
Oh! They are of worst quality.
Oh! Nobody has a player.
As they say, the rest is history.
For me the only real thing when it comes to music is live music itself. Music is a social thing, not an egoistic one.
Vinyl, CDs and MP3s are not more than a convenience and only insecure people need to advertise themselves in such a poor manner with a CD collection of 500 volumes that basic logic says the never listen to....
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Thank you. This is my feeling exactly. I love my CDs, their presentation, the physicality of it all. I like going to my massive cd rack in the morning, scanning the titles and selecting 8 or so albums to stick in my backpack and take with me to work.
I don't know who else does this (am I the only one??) but my ritual involves starting up the CD, and then taking the CD case, opening it about 25 degrees wide and standing it up on end. The back faces me, with all of the titles displayed so I quickly see them, and at the same time the front faces outward. I have my desk arranged at work so I'm facing the door, so whenever people walk by they can see the front case of which CD I'm currently listening to at the moment (sort of like an actual representation of the "now playing:" taglines people sometimes put at the end of messages). I've had more than a few random people stop by and strike up a conversation based on the CD that was currently being displayed. "Oh, you're a Marillion/Beatles/Tull/etc fan. Cool!" Yes, my friends. That IS cool. Do that with your MP3's! (Hmmm.... I suppose I could mount a scrolling LED display outside my office door with the current MP3 track playing... Nah, it's just not the same.)
Long live the presentation of media! The media itself is only part of it!
...Go ahead, tell me I'm wrong, I could use a good laugh.
OK. You're wrong. You have no idea what most slashdotters do. Chances are you wouldn't be able to identify one of us as a slashdotter if we mugged you in an alley. All the other posts on slashdot could be the work of a single manical AI program that argues with itself all day long, and you could be the only real human being who reads and posts to this site. Or, conversely, "Zico" could be nothing more a knee-jerk reactionary trolling script, and I'm just responding to thin air for the author's amusement. Regardless of what the true case is, I can definitely say that you personally cannot know the purchasing habits of however many thousand active slashdot users.
One day I feel I'm ahead of the wheel / the next it's rolling over me / I can get back on / I can get back on
I am also not a Soviet fighter jet.
...an interesting side-effect, one that is not limited to the standard AM/FM broadcast bands that most of the population is already familiar with. Specifically, any sort of chilling of online streaming, no matter who does it or why, could result in some stations getting back on the 'shortwave' bands (which some have already abandoned in favor of Internet pipes).
Granted, this tends to apply more to non-U.S. stations than anyone else, but those of you who have broadband HF receivers may want to start tuning around some more over the next year or so. You may get some interesting QSL cards out of it.
Bruce Lane, KC7GR,
Blue Feather Technologies
and i am too, since the broadcasters are collectively more powerful than the record manufacturers, particularly as more radio stations are owned by fewer companies.
record companies are VERY dependent on radio broadcasts in order to make hits. it's safe to say that without heavy airplay, even really good original songs can't rise on the charts. and radio broadcasters have forced the record companies to acknowledge their supremacy several times.
read these articles: http://www.salon.com/ent/clear_channel/
now if radio stations have that much power, why are they whining about the RIAA and DMCA and all that crap? they ould get any record company to knuckle under by simply pulling new songs off the air for a few weeks. i can just see how the broadcasters could methodically go through each record company, denying them the airplay they need to generate hit songs until the company agrees to the radio stations' terms for internet streaming.
not that i agree that radio broadcasters should have that kind of power. concentration of power, political and economic, is going to be the core of all the controversial issues in the coming years.
still, i wonder what the big radio broadcasters are complaining about. they control the airwaves and the means by which most of the public is made aware of new music. they get paid promotional fees for putting songs on the air. maybe they're just waiting to see if the record companies catch on before pulling out their big guns.
when religion is no longer the opiate of the masses, governments will resort to real opiates.
The market can't sort it out, because to do so is against the law (DMCA). The market is defined by that law, which was tweaked by the recording industry to define the market. The market could sort it out (*coughNapster*) if that were legal, which it turns out it wasn't. There's your "free market" in a "free country", it turns out it isn't that hard to buy.
+&x
A local talk radio station (WGOW 102.3) had tremendous success via streaming over the Internet. They had people calling constantly who had moved out of the area and listened to keep up with the hometown news, and people calling in that had just come across it. As a matter of fact one day they recieved a call from an English pub that apparently listened daily to one of the programs. (And considering I live in Chattanooga, TN that's a heck of a stretch.) One of the best known callers was a guy from Boston, who always called on their 1-800 line.
Of course that was before the great 'Radio Blackout of 2K1.' They've recently come back up via streaming, but in the time they were down they literally recieved hundreds of messages from people asking where they went. And slowly they're building their streaming base back.
Somehow I imagine that's not an isolated phenomena. However seeing as that most stations aren't as 'interactive' as talk radio is I would imagine that those listeners just wouldn't make their voices heard to the programming directors. And when they went down? The listeners probably just pulled up another station. (Heck I channel-hop in my car, why not on the net)
The listeners are there, just there silently.
'Life is like a spoonful of Drain-O, it feels good on the way down but leaves you feeling hollow inside'
The vast majority are owned by Clear Channel Communications.
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All Things Considered is produced in a very peculiar way for most large NPR stations. When the feed comes in from National Public Radio, the affiliate mixes in local news with the national news. My cousin produces ATC in the Twin Cities and it is actually a very complicated threading of segments, which are mixed together differently depending on how that day's news has been. (Literally "mixed," too. NPR gives background music for local anchors to read the news by, and the levels are mixed. :) You have to admit, besides, that ATC and NPR beat the hell out of almost any other cable, TV or radio news source.
--hongpong.com
I haven't listened to radio for music in a very long time- every time I hear it, it's always the same. The alternative station is playing Third Eye Blind and the same Sublime song over and over, the hiphop station has succumbed to the DrPuffDoggies of the world. But when I go to the Internet for streaming, and look up shoutcast.com, I can find electronic music of any type, all the goth I can handle before throwing up, and hiphop ranging from old school early 80s to modern faded beats.
Why would I ever go back to "radio"? There is just no reason.
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
All this really means is that people in this country who are dumb enough to believe they throw their vote away unless they vote for one of two candidates, neither of which will represent their viewpoint in any real way, still aren't dumb enough to believe they should pay more for music that requires no manufacturing process, no excess waste, no trees cut down to make labels.
Is that good news? Maybe.
A 32-bit DAC would suck arse production and cost wise. :-)
Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
But really, why not just offer a crappy copy of the full tune? The first 30 seconds are usually build up to the meat of the tune anyways.
Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
well, if you were using your brain instead of your asshole, or you knew a gd thing about J++ you'd know they stopped developement of the Swing class, the class that allows for interoperability between different operating systems. No one supports this class, and MS is the only one that can dev it. they are a bullshit company, and ill be happy to see them go out of business.
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This is typical NPR journalism. The news piece starts off reporting no listener increase yet notes later that there is in fact a listener increase (as one would expect). This is typical NPR propaganda where they are advocating their own cause (NPR wants lower fees assessed against them for commercials they streamed) just like they advocated against the LPFM licensing knowing it would draw listenership from their crappy communist journalism.
The RIAA is not what halted net-streamed radio, it was the AFTRA issue where the "actors" in the commercials wanted additional compensation for their internet ads. The statement in the article that said "radio companies bet on Internet streaming to boost their listening audience, allowing them to charge more for advertising. When that didn't happen, stations simply pulled the plug." only really shows part of the issue. It is true that the radio stations were not able to charge additional money for the ads just because the ads were going out via multiple mediums. However, the radio stations discovered they COULD generate additional revenue by charging for two sets of ads. The ads that would run on the internet would be independant of the ads that ran on the air. As is typically the case with banner ads, the ads would also be targeted.
The problem is that the technology to do this doesn't really exist. Neither Real nor Windows Media have had, up until essentially right now, even a technology demo of the insertion of targeted interstitial ads into live streams. Clear Channel and Real did a technology demo on the non-targeted insertion of interstitial ads just a couple of months back. Some of this I probably "cant say" but "I am guessing" that Real is working on the targeted insertion of interstitial ads and that it is a client-side issue that "theoretically would be" addressed through a new version of the client software. I would "theorize" that this client would come out very soon.
Once this is out and the broadcasters can have separate ads for the internet, then I suspect we will see an almost-immediate resumption of net broadcasting of radio.
maru
www.mp3.com/pixal
As many have already stated in too many words, commercial music radio is dead, and has been in dead most markets for years and years. Even non-commercial radio (mostly below 92 FM) is directionless except for a few stalwarts like WFMU.
If you want great streaming music - I'm talking CONTENT here - check out Live365.com. I love 60's & 70's pop & rock-n-roll, both the originals and contemporary inspirations. There are "channels" dedicated to Brill Building girl groups, Phil Spector, British Invasion, Mod and Northern soul, Memphis Stax/Volt soul, power-pop (both old & new), bubblegum, an awesome Swedish power-pop channel, you name it. All you need to operate a station is a mighty record collection (most important!! - content is king!!) and your net-connected pc for mp3 generation and uploading. Some enterprising souls even netcast live.
- michael
Come on, anyone on this site isn't paying for stuff. I don't know who your kidding. Try to make yourselves feel better and be like "Oh yeah, I pay for stuff" or "I would pay for stuff" but we both know that you wouldn't pay for anything. Your right, I probably wouldn't be able to know the buying habits of EVERYO
I happen to agree with you completely that the principal attraction is that it's "empowered by a huge catalog".
In the case of Napster the catalog self-generated as a result of having several hunderd thousand simultaneously connected users opting [remember, they have a choice] to share titles that are there in the first place because they happen to like them personally. It's organic, and the catalog is as vast as the totality of human diversity because that's where it comes from.
In order to replicate anything close comercially, some company would have to pay people to research and generate a dataset as close to that as they could possibly get. (Not very)
I don't think the industry could afford that even if recording executives sold their limos and took the bus to work.
give me a
--
Member of the Music Collective.
(C) Kaki Sain, 2011. By reading this, you have illegally copied my property to your brain.
Granted, [giving RIAA the benefit of the doubt - the claim actually sounds a little exaggerated to me] but these guys have licensing way beyond what they're in a position to deliver commercially at this moment.
The reason producers don't mind shelling out a few million in fees and promotions for major stars like sweet darling Britney is that they get it back plus a pretty huge return in exchange for planting the resulting merchandise on store shelves all over the planet. The cost per unit of manufacturing each item is practically invisible.
This process however isn't infinitely ongoing. Watching revenue like hawks, they're very quick to cease production and pull product, making way on the shelves for the next manufactured Hollywood sensation.
Napster users with working computer technology and collections of vinyl from the 1950s and 1960s say, or cassettes and CDs from later eras create mp3s with an entirely different motivation. They don't mind the effort and the fact that the bytes they compile happen to be sharable is simply a fortunate byproduct of the exercise.
IOW, I'm arguing it's one thing for RIAA to haul out briefcases full of fine print and whine. Acutally paying employees to generate several terabytes of downloadable content from analog at 3Mb a track would call for a major allocation of capital and other organizational resources. Incidentally - this investment would be completely speculative up front, with no track record to refer to regarding profitablity, marketing or operations.
So are they serious or were they just dissembling [under oath] because they don't like Napster and needed a convincing excuse to persuade a court to rule in their favor? One thing is clear: If they mean it, this isn't something that's gonna happen in the next half-hour.
give me a