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AOL Desktops On New PCs
mickeyreznor writes: "I came across this interesting article in the Washington Post. Apparently AOL is trying to pull the same kind of stunts that got Microsoft in trouble with the DOJ. I'm not sure where I stand on this whole issue, but it seems to be a very interesting situation. Seems like we're going to have an all-out corporate war in the upcoming months." With news that the number of internet users is shrinking, AOL needs a way to bring in new subscribers -- and the DOJ's pressure on Microsoft appears to have opened a door.
Apple does essentially the same thing on all macs with with mac.com and yet no one makes a big deal of that.
Uhh... AOL is definitely a monopoly. Just look at the chunk of the media market AOL-TW controls. What you meant to say is that AOL 'isn't a monopoly in OS production,' which is a true enough statement because AOL doesn't make an OSes. Instead, they just rely on their monopoly in the ISP market, their monopoly in the IM market, their monopoly in the broadband business and their monopoly on Park Place and Boardwalk.
"remind the customer of the AOL offer through the use of on-screen 'Pop-ups' that will appear five times within the first month of activity (or until the user signs up for AOL, whichever comes first)."..."clicks on anything that requires Internet connectivity, and has not registered for an ISP, the AOL offer is presented as a pop-up." .... there would be default shortcuts to AOL's portal when users clicked on "Internet" or "e-mail" from the start menu, the documents show.
Ewwwwww. Removing all that shit sounds like a huge pain in the butt... far more intrusive than what Microsoft does for MSN.
I wish Microsoft was smart enough to put in their requirements that, "You can put whatever you want on the Desktop, but you have to put your changes in Add/Remove Programs." There really should be a "Remove all the AOL shit" option... which there almost certainly won't be...
Hopefully Microsft will provide a "restore default configuration" utility, but that would probably be considered anti-competitive. Oh well. Reinstalling the OS from Warez CD's it is...
Gee, maybe people are finally getting tired of all of the crap they have to go through to get DSL from companies like Verizon. Or maybe because the DSL people don't seem to want to do new installations anymore.
As for the decline in hits on some websites, I'd say that web users are becoming more savvy now. The novelty has worn off for many of them. We can't expect hamsterdance to maintain the level of clicks it had in '98 now can we?
I read the internet for the articles.
"In a separate AOL document also dated June 13, AOL explored the possibility of replacing various Microsoft products in Windows XP, including its Windows Media Player for playing online music and video. AOL has a deal with RealNetworks Inc. to use its RealPlayer software."
I, for one, would be happy for the streaming content market to have more choice. More installed RealPlayers == more content creators providing content in this format. And, unless something has changed, there's nothing to play WMA (or whatever it is) files on *nix.
(Little) huzzah for AOL!
...j
Posted by polar_bear:
If you're too lazy to build your own computer
You know, I've built dozens of computers for myself and other people and I still take exception to this - people should be able to buy product A without being subjected to advertising via mail, email, telephone or carrier pidgeon for products B, C, D, ad infinitum. Sorry, just because some of us enjoy tinkering with the internals of a PC doesn't mean everyone else does or even knows how -- or someone else who does. (Try that argument on a grandmother who buys a PC so she can email her grandkids. It's bullshit.)
The attitude that customers are just targets for repeat marketing is something that needs to change. The computer manufacturers are only one aspect of this. I have a Bally's membership, and now I find that they're re-selling my personal information. That's bullshit, I bought a membership to a health club. It's a business transaction, not an invitation for them to strip mine personal data for their further benefit. I pay for the use of the club, they should leave it at that.
People should be justifiably angry at all these large companies abusing their relationship with customers. People shouldn't have to build their own PC, car and health club to escape the damn ads.
Posted by polar_bear:
They shouldn't HAVE to remove ads from something they just paid for - that's the whole point.
I didn't switch anything - I was never talking about spyware. I'm talking about how companies are double-dipping (or more) by taking your money and then also taking advantage of the business relationship to make further money by selling ads or your personal data.
If the argument is that the world economy has been kicked in the teeth (GWB wouldn't know anything about that, would he?), and that the Internet is a luxury, compared to food, then yes, I'll agree that the global Internet usage is probably slipping, right now.
However, AOL aren't selling to the global Internet population. They're not even selling to all major cities in the United States! If you don't sell, then nobody can buy. Blaming the customer may appease a few board members, but it won't pay the bills.
If AOL are going to pull hostile take-overs of the Internet community, they're going to wind up dead in the water. For a start, how do you attack something or someone you know nothing about? At least Microsoft picked their targets with some degree of skill.
Besides, AOL's best solution is obvious to me. Even if the global Internet usage plummets, the big corporate players will still be there. And that means, a need for high-speed backbones. AOL covers a fair number of countries. If they were to build their own backbone, they would be less vulnerable if an existing major player went under, they'd have an extra revenue stream, and it would cut their long-term costs massively.
(Lucent's just about dead, which means that terabit switches and optical routers are more likely to end up in the Smithsonian than in companies' networks. Further, anything they have already sold is likely to end up unsupported.)
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Go read the Findings of Fact for the MS-DOJ case read the part about the licensing of Windows 95 to IBM. The OEMs that did whatever MS wanted got Win95 early and at a cheaper price than those who didn't cave in. IIRC, IBM didn't get Win95 until the night of the consumer launch. Which considering the amount of time it takes to test it on the hardware, write any necessary drivers, get the systems into the supply chain, etc. it hurt IBM a lot. Sure it's not jacking the prices up to extremely high levels, but the effect is still the same.
The courts also use monopoly/anti-trust law to block mergers of companies where the combined market share percentage is no where near the market share that Microsoft has. Whether it fits your definition or not, the courts still have ruled that MS abused monopoly power. As others have pointed out, what AOL is doing isn't any different than companies paying for premium space on store shelves. It's actually funny that MS is bitching about it.
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
Normally, I'd say "poetic justice", but I daresay AOL's little better at best.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Seriously. AOL Desktops? I think they've got bigger fish to fry by remaining a content and access provider.
I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
So the unwashed masses are finally tiring of spam, Make Money Fast, advertising and porn.
Well, maybe not porn.
Why is it that many people who claim to support standards have such atrocious spelling and grammar?
From the article: "New York based AOL..."
That's odd... what's that big-ass building down the street from me (Dulles)? Is AOL no longer based on NoVA as a result of the merger?
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
man, that's a lame attitude. but of course, you complain about it. so, how long has this self-hate been going on?
Only in the NT & 2000 version of Notepad. In 95, 98, & ME Notepad doesn't have this capability.
Dell wouldn't be giving it away for free - if they could offer a "better Windows than Windows" (that's not OS/2) they could charge more for it. People complain that there are a zillion different Linux distributions, but that's really a feature, not a failing - OEMs can put together a distribution targetted for a particular audience and use, charge a minor premium for that service, and retain a very loyal audience too.
Right now Dell and Gateway try to distinguish themselves on hardware price and by the quantity of worthless OEM crap that they shovel onto each machine. Wouldn't it be better for them to spend that energy actually making real improvements to things that are actually broken in Windows, rather than just throwing more junk on top of it?
Microsoft would never let this happen, but it's still a neat idea IMHO.
Remember: it's a "Microsoft virus", not an "email virus",
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
I sort of agree. The problem occurs when OEMs can no longer compete without getting those $35 payments from AOL. OEMs could have chosen not to sign restrictive contracts with Microsoft as well, but it would have hurt them enough financially that they would have been out of business. Eventually I could see this being the case with AOL's kickbacks as well.
In a certain sense AOL isn't the monopoly at this time that Microsoft was then, but in another way it is: AOL is the only way to get AOL-type services. If you want the incredibly simple interface that they provide, there is really no competition. I don't know how many OEMs are selling based on the simplicity and AOL-ness of their systems, but if they are doing so then they've got nowhere else to go. AOL is still nowhere near the monopoly that Microsoft is, though.
Remember: it's a "Microsoft virus", not an "email virus",
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
Best. Solution. Ever.
mod up, please
Remember: it's a "Microsoft virus", not an "email virus",
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
Two words:
... ;)
DR DOS
I can see blue screens happening every time that popup comes along
Well, you're talking to people who are spoiled by their parent's lame cable modem, and who have no concept of finding some sort of net access while you're stuck in some chincy hotel in the middle of nowhere with nothing except an analogue line and your 28.8k laptop modem.
I mean come on, what do you expect out of this group? Objectivity and Real World experience? Right. That's hard to get when the only sun these idiots get are on those days when their college dorm happens to have a fire drill in the middle of the day.
That's sad, I had to actually think for a few minutes why one of these dweebs would need to leave their computer nowadays. The list is getting shorter.
When was the last time you called MS for tech support? If you are having trouble running Microsoft Word on Microsoft Windows ME on your new Dell computer, you call Dell tech support. That's just what everyone does. It's not like Dell would be taking on an extra burden.
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Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
If HyperTerminal sucked and Telix/Procomm were so great, why is Hyperterminal still around while Telix and Procomm are either dead or insignificant?
...
If your answer is, "Because nobody needs a terminal emulation program anymore", then s/Hyperterminal/Notepad.
Notepad sucks. There are a million better programs (not necessarily more complex, though) I'd be happy if Notepad had three new features:
* Arbitrarily large file support
* Proper handling of UNIX newlines (MS-DOS editor handles them just fine)
* Search-and-replace
Dell could easily write a program that was as simple as Notepad but had these three features, and then pull out Notepad and replace it with this.
Similar things have happened with Stacker/DoubleSpace, HIMEM/QEMM, Speedisk/Defrag, NDD/ScanDisk, Anything/Pbrush, Anything/HyperTerminal, Winamp/Windows Media Player, Netscape/IE, ICQ/MSN Messenger, Anything/Command Prompt,
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Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
So corporations will standardize on Dell Windows instead of Microsoft Windows. How exactly is that harder?
The benefit, of course, is that Dell Windows had better be superior to Micron Windows or else no corporations will use it. And so on.
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Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
Yeah, and it's a good thing we only have one kind of car, or else you wouldn't be able to get into a different model than the one you're used to and drive off. Oh, wait, we don't, and you can.
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Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
During the antitrust trial, MS kept saying, "We don't have a monopoly! There are alternatives! You can use a Mac! You can use Linux! You can use BeOS! And we didn't preclude Netscape from having a distribution channel! You could have downloaded it, or got it from CompUSA!"
I for one hope AOL gets every single major OEM to put AOL products all over the default installation, and then says to MS, "What? They can always download MSN. They can always download Windows Media Player."
Or paraphrase MS's excuse from Windows Refund Day: "Sure, most major OEMs will bundle AOL, but you don't have to use a major OEM. Just use some fly-by-night mail-order distributor if you don't want AOL bundled with your computer."
Sure, i hate AOL as much as the next guy, but the delight of seeing MS get a taste of their own medicine is worth it.
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Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
It's high time OEMs stopped passing Windows to the consumer verbatim as it comes from Microsoft. Each OEM should put together their own Windows "distro". Just like we have Redhat Linux and Debian Linux, there should be Dell Windows XP and Gateway Windows XP.
The OEMs should look at products and choose what to bundle. If Dell decides Mozilla is better than IE, they should pull off IE and put on Mozilla.
That way, MS can't destroy a competitor just by bundling a moderately good imitation.
Think back to the bundling of, say, HyperTerminal. It sucked, but nobody would bother to go out and find a good replacement when something adequate comes with the system. But if Dell had had the balls to say, "Screw that, we're including FooComm in our Windows distribution, it's better" then HyperTerminal would have faced competition and would be better today.
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Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
It's laughable that anyone who can say MS was/is in a monopoly position, can believe that AOL/TW is not in a monopoly position. They have over 4 times the subscribers of their nearest competitor, control IM protocols that they are abusing, own the largest chunk of broadcast, print and online media, own one of the largest cable companies in the US and are working on a deal to handle the online customers for THE largest cable company. They control the largest portion of content and delivery.
MS did not threaten to raise OS prices, they threatened not to nearly give it away any more. Otherwise they'd have to pay the full price(that everyone else pays) of 89$ for the software. Same thing AOL wants to do by giving 35$ per PC. MS just did it as a credit, because they had a product that PC makers saw as valuable. AOL doesn't really have a lot that PC makers consider to add value to their product, so they pay cash.
Maybe this isn't an abuse of their monopoly, because they're not forcing you to subscribe to AOL to see CNN, yet. But AOL/TW most certainly holds a monopoly position.
Bury your head in the sand, but this is just as bad as the things MS did, probably worse because of the horizontal layout of AOL/TW.
Yes, utilities are one of the very few things that work well in a socialistic fashion. Gov't regulated or owned utilities have worked terribly well. However AOL/TW isn't a utility. You must understand that AOL/TW isn't just AOL anymore. It's the largest mixed media company in the world. What they control or have an extensive interest in is mindboggling.
Sure, MS can control the PC OS, and even the office application market. But that's a miniscule niche to what AOL/TW controls.
Microsoft can rely on threats while AOL has to offer sweeteners
In the business world the difference between a threat and sweetener is negligiable. If your competitor is keeping back 35$ more than you a unit it effects your bottom line. You have to counter that by taking the offer too, whether you want to or not. The EXACT same reason PC makers had to agree to MS's demands. AOL is simply taking advantage of the current situation, because MS can't counter because of PR backlash (See AOL's holdings in CNN, CNN/fn etc).
Choose your evils. Myself, I hate to see any company go unchallenged. MS at least had some challengers, no matter how small, But AOL/TW has none. Go without MS for a month, no problem. Now try to go without AOL/TW, good luck, hopefully you're blind, deaf and dumb and live in a very remote cave.
Is anyone really surprised that the number of active net users is dropping slightly? We are in the middle of an economic slowdown (at least here in the US), many web pages that were aimed at consumers or the mass public in general have gone under, and people have now realized that the internet isn't going to cure cancer and end world hunger. Also, though us geeks use it extensively, there are probably many people who signed on in the midst of all the hype and are now disappointed at what their $20 per month is getting them.
Once the economic conditions turn around, however, people will begin signing on again once the extra
$20 or so per month is no longer a strain on the budget, and people will begin using the net for what it is - a facilitator of information exchange - rather than expecting it to solve all the world's problems. I think any downturn is temporary.
That this product is using a new trend in UI design I like to call 'nagups'. These are pop-ups that the user sees X number of time before they go away. The problem is that users don't KNOW that they will go away after '5 times or one month whichever is first' as the article states. They assume, as any reasonable person would, that the pop-up will keep coming up until they register with AOL. This will do one of two things, encourage users to move to AOL, or, encourage them to complain to their OEM and AOL.
Microsoft is using the same technique with passport: the prompt to register comes up three times before disappearing (IIRC) after installing XP. Microsoft claims that passport registration is NOT required with the OS, however a reasonable user would believe after the second time that the nag popped up, that registering with passport is necessary to get rid of it.
How is this helping users? Nags should come up once and then have the ability to dismiss them forever or remind later (just like outlook appointments).
By including such measures AOL and MSFT are doing a disservice to their end users.
-Shieldwolf.
just = (My)Opinion.toCents();
The article seems pretty clear when it says, "In the past two months, the number of active Internet users declined 1.6 percent and the number of people with Net connections stayed flat..." That reads like 'shrinking' to me.
The article states that a few sectors are still growing, but never says that the overall number of users is still growing. The positive figures quoted were from the previous two years.
You never really know how close to the edge you can go until you fall off.
I would bet that sometime down the road they will have a 'AOL'centric active desktop feeding you ads at a phenominal pace. You might think web popups are annoying now. Could you imagine tring to get to Word and a popup comes up and says 'Would'nt you like a Coke(tm) with that?"
ARRGGHH, enough already! Lets tell all thes lusers where to get off.
make Linux, not Microsoft. sin(beast) = -0.809016994374947424102293417182819
Microsoft often likes to make outrageous and very strong comments like this. In fact I suspect this to be a very well thought out strategy of their PR departement, to hide people forget how much "outrageous, and heavy handed" their own practice are. "The more you react violently, the more people will think you must be inocent, and for a good reason".
AOL/TW already does. It's called RoadRunner cable modem service and rides over Warner digital cable. MS also owns big chunks of cable corp's plus WebTV, but the intense gov't scrutiny probably would never let them roll out "MS Passport Digital Cable TV! 1000 channels of Windows Media content plus the WWW and more!" to the masses.
#include "disclaim.h"
"All the best people in life seem to like LINUX." - Steve Wozniak
#include "disclaim.h"
"All the best people in life seem to like LINUX." - Steve Wozniak
Hey grammar nazi fool.
"...that somes it up very nicely." should be:
"...that sums it up very nicely."
It's alright if you feel like an ass.
painkillr
Choose your evils. Myself, I hate to see any company go unchallenged. MS at least had some challengers, no matter how small, But AOL/TW has none. Go without MS for a month, no problem. Now try to go without AOL/TW, good luck, hopefully you're blind, deaf and dumb and live in a very remote cave. I could go without AOL/TW for a month much easier than going without MS for a month. I bet my boss would get pretty pissed if I didn't answer emails anymore sent via the corporate exchange server, but I could easily just continue to not watch TV, or read any magazines. I don't watch the supposed news sourse formerly known as the "clinton news network" (cnn) anyway, so who cares. I have enough CD's that I could easily avoid the ones associated with Warner Music and its affiliates, etc etc etc. At the end of the day though, I still need to check my corporate email. I still need to do my banking, and my bank's website requires IE5 or 5.5. Etc. I can escape AOL/TW, I cannot escape MS.
Let AOL and MS duke it out on the Windows desktop. Windows will become so unusable due to the constant popups, hundreds of extraneous icons, and lack of program compatibility that noone will want to use it. Maybe then people will finally look at the alternatives.
How long will it be before the alternatives are clogged with ads?
Maybe we should keep this whole "leenux" thing quiet...
Yeap.
Say there was one car engine manufacturer in the US (heck, the world) who had an exclusive deal with all auto manufacturers. So all cars came with the same engine. SURE, you *could* go out and buy an engine from smaller-engine-dealer and replace the one that came with the car...or you could just build your own car from scratch.
But who's going to deal with that? Maybe 10% of the population? So before ya know it, every car has a 4 cylinder, 20mpg engine and spare parts (upgrades) for that engine cost lotsa $$.
Take this to the computer world, and perhaps you see the problem?
KM
Kinda like Moe, but just a little more Kool
95 Rockefeller Center.. saw the building again on CNBC this morning, and noticed the address for the first time.
I remember just an hour after the merger was approved, CNN was showing a crew on ladders adding the letters "AOL" to beginning of the name over the main entrance.
I work at 43rd and 5th and was wondering where the building was. Now I know.
--
Steve Jackson
Intelligent Life on Earth
I still think AOL should build their own "AOL Kiosk" based on Linux. Instead of trying to push nichy Internet Appliances, I think they should build their own distro and start sending out CD's geared towards older, unused PCs laying around people's houses. "Requirements: P100 or higher, 16MB RAM or higher, 500MB hard drive or larger, modem or ethernet card". "Warning: This CD will completely erase all contents of your computer, and convert it into an easy-to-use AOL Internet Station".
What would be nice is that since the target users of the kiosk would be consumers, they could build the distro to be extremely secure on the Internet side. No Outlook viruses. No NetBIOS hacks. No DDOSes. "Screen names" would translate to users, but now with separate, completely customizable desktops with minimal office suites.
Imagine the contributions AOL would be able to make to Linux WRT device drivers. Those pesky "please wait while we update your system" messages may actually be linux kernel module updates.
And who knows, maybe even AOL/TW would open the AUP on their RoadRunner service to allow these kiosks to share their internet connection with other PCs in the same home. Doubtful, but it would be a way for them to guarantee the security of systems attached directly to their cable modems, and therefore minimize abuse of the connected clients. I haven't performed any true forensics, but the last time I installed AOL6 for my Mom, it looked like the native AOL connection was extremely close to a traditional PPP connection.
--
Steve Jackson
Intelligent Life on Earth
According to an employee at Juno, dialup is still 85% of the access of choice, and the number is slooowly going down.
MS had that problem before. Netscape was making their own browser-based OS, and MS managed to kill it.
Aren't you worried that AOL/TW and MS are fighting to be king of the hill? Both are battling to control our lives, take away mp3s, etc.
Once one gets the upper hand of the other, then we're going downhill. Once MS is finally emasculated (by the DOJ? AOL?), AOL/TW will be the new hated corporation around here.
Well the less net users story might turn out to be more significant than the AOL story. People are already receiving a net experience they choose to do without.
:)
Congratulations, humanity! A big collective "No!" at some subconcious cultural level. It is quite re-assuring, really
We [/.ers] can have a cleaner net exerience if we want to, becuase we know how to. But no-ones making much money from us either.
More bandwidth to share between us, eh? I hear there isn't a shortage of bandwidth really these days, just a shortage of people using it. Last week the company I work for decided to reduce it's international ATM link by 50%. Smarter use of what we have by using easy to use and adjust QOS systems QOS, and a saving monthy of A$20,000 per month.
RG
First off, I'll say that I hate the popups and crap as much as anyone else. That said...
MS leveraged their OS market share to push IE. They forbade manufacturers from changing the desktop. They penalized manufacturers who did not put Windows on the PCs they sold.
AOL is striking deals where they would pay the manufacturers bounties for AOL subscribers that sign up as a result of popups that the manufacturer would install on the Windows desktop, courtesy of MS's loosened restrictions on this. AOL is not forcing anyone do this. They're not penalizing people who don't. And they're not leveraging anything to get this, except maybe existing relationships with the manufacturers. So other than cluttering the desktop and annoying people with popups, what's wrong with this?
I say more power to them. Let AOL and MS duke it out on the Windows desktop. Windows will become so unusable due to the constant popups, hundreds of extraneous icons, and lack of program compatibility that noone will want to use it. Maybe then people will finally look at the alternatives.
-Todd
---
"The details of my life are quite inconsequential..."
The problem is that a Mac costs more, is less powerful, less expandable and has fewer applications at a higher average price than a PC. Why would anyone pay more to do less? The salesmen know this and are just trying to do the right thing for the customers.
*this space is filled with uncontrollable laughter*
Maybe you should spend 10 minutes comparing Macs and PCs in real world situations? Say, throw the latest consumer OS version on them both, 256 megs of RAM on both of 'em, and the top of the line processors on both of them, then run every application that you can get a copy for both systems on them. You'll notive that the Mac consistently outperforms the PC. Then come back and tell us how sorry you are for spreading disinformation.
DISCLAIMER: I do not like Macs, I am impressed with their hardware, and I kind of like MacOS X, but I prefer Windows 2000. I like PCs for the ease with which I can screw with the components. But that feature is not one that most consumers have any need or desire for.
Kintanon
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
But I thought the Endless were forbidden from spilling the blood of kin?
I write trance music.
yes, from what i have heard they get beetween 1 and 3 percent commision on the sale of a wintel machine, where on a mac they get 1% if anything, they make more money on a peecee.
-- free as in swatantryam - not soujanyam.
AOL is giving Microsoft a taste of its own bitter medicine. Instead, however, it is using the carrot approach (paying PC makers to put AOL on the desktop). Better than Microsoft's "You-will-do-it-our-way-or-we-will-kill-you"
methods of the past. I liked it so much I even bought some AOL stock for a position play.
geez. In the twenty seconds I took to draft this comment, two other people submitted the exact same thing.
classic
From the mouths of babes:
""AOL's actions are unprecedented and completely anti-consumer," said Microsoft spokesman Vivek Varma. "AOL is paying [computer makers] to eliminate consumer choice, forcing people to select the most expensive service in the industry.""
So it was fine for Microsoft to put MSN on the desktop alone (Before they started selling the space to ISPs themselves, anyway.), but when AOL does it the whole thing is anti-competitive.
*sigh*
Sorry, but I have no sympathy for people who spend hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars on a piece of equipment, but don't take the time to educate themselves as to what they're really buying.
--
Lord Nimon
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
to to this by threatening to withhold the OS;
No, you're wrong.
Microsoft never threatened to withhold the OS or to raise prices on it. There was a set price per license and a date on which you could get your hands on copies. What it did do, though was offer incentives - not unlike what AOL is doing here. If a manufacturer was willing to do things their way, MS offered them discounted licenses (similar to AOLs $35 rebate) as well as a chance to get their hands on the Gold CDs early.
Not that much different after all.
Mmmm.. Donuts
No, you're wrong.
Microsoft never threatened to withhold the OS or to raise prices on it. There was a set price per license and a date on which you could get your hands on copies. What it did do, though was offer incentives - not unlike what AOL is doing here. If a manufacturer was willing to do things their way, MS offered them discounted licenses (similar to AOLs $35 rebate) as well as a chance to get their hands on the Gold CDs early.
MS Windows is ALWAYS available, to any manufacturer. The price, however, is the $199 MSRP. If MS withheld their licensing agreement from a manufacturer, then the price of installing Windows would basically price the manufacturer right out of the market in most cases.
AOL IS NOT DISCOUNTING LICENSES. They are paying for new users, that's vastly different. The AOL software does not need to be licensed, they give it away all day, every day.
If a manufacturer doesn't do business with AOL, then nothing has changed for him. If a manufacturer refused to "play ball" with the "old" MS, then MS had the ability to directly increase his costs and force him out of the market.
Ah, good old American capitalism at work...
I don't believe it. Why does this seem like a threat to me? "Should the user fail to comply, we will attack him with SPAM upon SPAM upon SPAM". I feel less threatened by my statement, than I do by AOL.
I am Lord Snowbeam. Heed my call!
How the hell can I set my coffee on it if it's on my desktop???
You're using her as bait, Master!
Jesus! We're being bombarded by ads enough as it is. It's not enough that every morning I see ads on TV and hear them in my car. During my drives around town, I see hundreds of billboards, signs, and flyers designed to attract my attention. When I'm on the Internet, I'm pounded by pop-ups and banner ads. Now, AOL wants to slap computer users in the face before they even get on the Internet!
As a result of that Microsoft concession, AOL's strategy for Windows XP now focuses on the "OOBE process," or the out-of-box experience, the crucial moment when consumers turn on their machines for the first time and select what products and services they intend to use, the documents show.
The average OOBE will soon be "Wow. I remember back when there was a *desktop* that people could see icons that related to the programs they bought. Now, it looks like we've bought one damned expensive commercial-generator."
--SC
You read fiction? I write it! Lemme know what you th
Other ways to ensure a profitable "Out Of the Box Experience" for AOL:
- Removal of one of the customer's fingers each week that the customer fails to accept "the trial".
- Promised hold times of "only three hours" if the customer wishes to cancel his or her subscription after "the trial".
- Forced sex with the customer's spouse and/or children until the customer agrees to "the trial".
- Regular visits by a naked Steve Case to the customer's home or office until the customer accepts "the trial".
- The AOL icon will be present on the customer's desktop in three forms. Each time the customer tries to delete one of them, one of the customer's most recent documents will be deleted, and a pop-up message will warn that if the customer doesn't try "the trial" within the first 30 days of ownership, his family will be killed one by one in reverse order of birth.
Shocking.You read fiction? I write it! Lemme know what you th
So that would be.....Larry Elison, perhaps Jeff Bezos whenever his stock gets out of the shitter, or Old Granddad, IBM, waiting for the youngens to wear themselves out before making the kill.
Read my plan to save the Bengals
Well, they're secretly funding research into quantum computing, so they can sell service to people in an infinite number of universes. The only drawback is that getting a reasonable username will be a bitch...
Uhm, no. This is the free market at work. AOL is making deals that other companys are free to attempt to make. The PC makers aren't being forced into anything. Consumers aren't being forced into anything.
This is the way it's SUPPOSED to work.
--
I don't know what's worse -- to have a monopoly on one or two things, or to own a smaller chunk of just about everything (let's see... they have the largest internet service, CNN, HBO, Warner Music, Warner Bros, Hanna-Barbera, New Line Cinema, Turner, Winamp, Time, Life, Fortune, People, ICQ, Spinner, MapQuest, Dr Koop, Netscape, Comedy Central, Road Runner, a few sports teams, etc....) Get on their bad side, and they might refuse to run your ads, run biased stories against you on CNN and in all of their magazines, make jokes about you in all their movies, and so on. You'd be seeing the same biased information everywhere you look, and it would be nearly impossible for people to tell what was what. Microsoft, on the other hand, limits their dominance to the area of computers.
You can avoid Microsoft with no problem -- use an operating system other than Windows, and 95% of your problem is solved. What if you want to avoid AOL-Time-Warner? They have more control over the public's mindshare than Microsoft could ever hope to.
To add to this, you always know when you're faced with a Microsoft product -- it's got the logo in a prominent position on the box. With AOL-Time-Warner and its myriad of brands, you never know when you're being fed by the corporate monster.
My only complaint about AOL's email is:
1> I can't use it with other email clients- i MUST connect to AOL to use it. (I can use netscape 6 but that's not much different than MS's hotmail stunt with OE.
2> Spam. Tons of spam. Tons of garbage and spam.
Which I get from hotmail as well also. And Yahoo. But it's not so bad on yahoo. It's dreadful on hotmail. And makes AOL unusable for me.
Of course I'm assuming you've not gone into the chat rooms on AOL. That tends to help slightly.
I propose that we pass legislation enforcing the separation of hardware and software! When you buy your PC you get NO operating system, none. Buy the one you want and install it your own self.
Too feeble to install your own OS? Perhaps you should just give it up and buy WebTV.
--john
Dunkerz, good point regarding decrease in dialup connections.
:P
Also, it seems most analysts ignore the fact that many internet users are college kids who go home for the summer and don't have their internet connections for a bit.
Another point is that many free internet services have gone out of business.
Someone pointed out that the article is really saying that traffic growth is slowing down, but the number of users is not decreasing overall. Its sorta like Democrats saying Republicans cut the budget when the GOP-heads just slow the spending growth for some programs.
adding your logos is one thing. removing someone else's is something else alltogether.
Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
Microsoft was putting things in THEIR product (Windows) to give THEMSELVES an advantage. AOL is trying to put things in someone ELSE's product to give them an advantage, without the consent of that someone else. This is like Ford paying an independant car lot to replace the logos on Chevrolets with Ford logos.
Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
There are two issues (that I see) with this new approach, but neither deals with the fact that AOL/Time Warner is becoming a mega-media giant.
Oh yeah, and to touch on Compaq again, I really think their idea of keeping their computers as an overall package of software, hardware, support, etc. is an awful idea. They tried that on me with a laptop I bought from them. I recently dissuaded the purchase of $200,000 of computer equipment from Compaq because of their inflexibility. What a pleasure it was putting a full-featured, factory-provided version of Win2K (without all the company crap) in a brand-new Dell machine, reformatting/reinstalling, and have it still be fully supported!
Microsoft could pay $36 to keep the MSN icon on the desktop. If enough ISPs pay enough money for desktop icons we could have really cheap PCs!
Such is the infinite Grace of Popeye.
With news that the number of internet users is shrinking, AOL needs a way to bring in new subscribers
No they don't. With all the recent mergers they've been having, how many tens of millions of subscribers do they have now?
---
I pledge allegiance to the flag...
of the Corporate States of America...
But this is completely and utterly a lie! The article he links to clearly states that the number of internt users is increasing, this is simply happening at a slower rate than last year.
Geeze. It makes me sick.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
They better be careful. it could get them in the same trouble with the DOJ as microsoft.
and whats with those popups? like, excuse me? when i delete the icon the first minute its booted, i'm sure as hell not gonna want to deal with popups. i think thats crossing the line a bit. And the frequency of them! its like...(/rant time=premature reason=sanity)
Microsoft was slapped on the wrist because they both made the desktop, and dictated what content could sit on it. ie - leveraging monopoly control on one product to bolster sales in another sector. This is not what AOL-T/W is doing.
Disclaimer: This does not mean I don't consider AOL Time-Warner to a monopoly. I just don't think this is an example of it.
---
less net users good
my bandwidth goes up up up
arg! more disks needed
-- www.globaltics.net
Political discussion for a new world
this is too much.
This is why the first thing I do when I get a computer is reformat so I can install my own clean OS with none of the buggy crap that comes preinstalled.
Uh no, wait a minute, have I got that right??
[before moderating, listen guys, it's meant to be funny..]
I tried to get a rectangular bear for months
Java, Netscape? Stop living in the past.
oh Java is cool alright, if you're very patient and don't mind waiting for stuff to load, besides this demo was a pain in the behind to install.
So instead of Big Brother, we'll have Big Brother and Big Sister. Great.
The Blaster Master Fighting for Truth, Justice, and Evil Pie since 1979
I'm not an AOL user, in fact I hate AOL. But this isn't the same as Microsoft. AOL is paying for advertising. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. It's annoying, granted, but not evil.
Microsoft was saying "If you install our OS, you can't put any other icons on the desktop". Being as the vast majority of computer users expected a Microsoft OS, the computer makers had to install it to get customers, which meant they couldn't install Netscape, put AOL icons on, etc, etc.
As I said, I don't like AOL, but let's not blame them for something that is in well established practice (i.e. paying for adverts).
"Free beer tends to lead to free speech"
This is good news for Mozilla.
AOL also is seeking to give an advantage to Netscape, its own Web browser...
Truly, I am torn over this one... no wait, I'm not, that's just heartburn.
"Free beer tends to lead to free speech"
Ya know, it's really a three-way battle- AOL/TW vs. MS vs. ATT/@HOME. Portal War III is underway, and there can only be one....
________________________________________ History Must Not Fall Into The Wrong Hands ___________________________________
There's a story on bbspot news that somes it up very nicely.
Keeping
Don't they annoy the OOBE'r enough already? Chrike, if AOL actually pulls half of this off, what a lousy precedent it will set for other advertising execs to follow... buying pop-up ads for extended periods of time on new PCs... this one has to be too farfetched for most cases.
And hey, I don't want my grandma to be subjected to this kind of hooliganism!
DirecTV (dossier), which has begun offering broadband Internet access, so far has had little luck keeping customers. During its recent earnings announcement, the company reported 745,000 new subscribers last quarter, but 570,000 existing customers canceled the service. In addition, new-subscriber growth is off 50 percent from the previous quarter.
LOL. DirecTV got this service by buying Telocity, which offered very spotty service and clueless technical support. Example:
When you call tech support, the first thing that happens is an engineer's recorded voice telling which cities are experiencing network trouble. Good deal - let's you bail early if it's out of your hands. But it's never accurate. I took it seriously, waited 20 mins on hold, spoke 20 mins to Ms 2-Day Training, before she said "Oh, you're in ***? The network there is down." Thank you. Who does that help? If they'd just update the damn phone message, they'd save both my time and theirs. Only once has my city been listed when it should've been. Given the number of random outages they have, I've collected a statisticall significant sample and they approach 0% accuracy.
Quality of service has gotten worse with the takeover. During the last network outage, not only was the city-specific message not there, but Tech Support answered with a helpful "We are currently upgrading tech support. Please try again tomorrow." And my client was sooo understanding about why I couldn't get him his files.
Even worse, their news server just went down FOR NINE STRAIGHT DAYS. Is there anybody reading who couldn't set up a news server from scratch using just docs in under 8 days? Well, you're overqualified.
Sorry to rant. I guess my point is, I've stuck with them because of a static IP, but why would anybody else? Maybe all the defections actually had a cause, rather than being part of some "trend". Maybe the trend was caused by people tiring of the internet business model of "overpromise, underdeliver".
I worked in Finance in the mid-90s. The climate in the computer industry was changing very fast, and some computer makers were having a rough time. On the earnings conference call, you'd hear "due to stagnation in the PC industry" and such. Other companies, same line of business and days apart would talk about spectacular growth in the PC industry. You figure it out.
TV networks do the same, discussing the "continuing downward trend in viewership" rather than "our shows aren't worth watching." Based on the continuation of bad service, bad business models and bad TV shows, I've come to the conclusions that execs actually believe themselves when they speak this way.
Q: Our customers are defecting! Our sales are down! Our ratings are off! What do we do?
A: Call marketing.
Kill, Tux, kill!
Because AOL isn't in quite the same position, in terms of leverage. AOL can only offer a positive incentive for accepting it's terms, whereas Microsoft could either not provide a vital operating system (for the general consumer market, anyway) or charge them a hell of a lot more then any other manufacturer pays, giving them a pricing disadvantage on otherwise equal products.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
When MSN was rolled out, Microsoft decided to pressure PC makers to not allow competitive providers. This caused us at the ISP that employed me huge heartburn; we were convinced that MSN would drive us out of business in no time flat. We negotiated with Microsoft to allow us some presence and they eventually relented, so long as we used Microsoft Explorer as our default browser. I use the word "negotiate" loosely as it was a pretty one-sided negotiation.
I think this may have even been the initial impetus for the antitrust suit as all the ISPs gave up negotiating with Netscape so as to get placement somewhere in Windows. In any case, it certainly smells like tying.
AOL seems to be exploiting Microsoft's weakness to turn back the tide. Much as I dislike both AOL and Microsoft, better to have a two party system than a one party system - even for us Independents.
Milo
The problem with that is there's no money in DSL or cable. Think of it: 1.5Mbit/s for $40/month. T1: 1.2Mbit/s for $2,000/month. DSL provides bandwidth at bargain basement prices - the problem is the upstream bandwidth hasn't changed significantly in price. Therefore, there's no money in DSL. If there's no money in it, the companies that offer it aren't going to be that interested in selling it.
Paul Anderson
"I drank WHAT?!" -- Socrates
I find it strange that this is getting so much complaint from slashdot. This only affects WINDOWS. It will have the primary effect of driving people from Windows to Linux.
Paul Anderson
"I drank WHAT?!" -- Socrates
Actually, my parent's basement can't get AOL without calling long distance. Ahh, the boondocks of New Jersey.
I've had an AOL mailbox for about 8 years or so. I get virtually zero spam to it. Of my like 2 zillion email accounts, I get the least spam at AOL.
Now that Microsoft is careful about not being (too) obvious with their monopolistic methods, maybe they'd allow RedHat to put a "Install Linux" icon on the Windows desktop :-)
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
AOL is even inking a deal with Qwest (used to be USWEST)to offer DSL
I really hate Dan Patrick.
Yeah, right...
- - - If the sun is a star, why can't I see it at night?
Apeople to that! People of gender - Unite!
- - - If the sun is a star, why can't I see it at night?
Okay, I've done some testing...
The Mac's round shape prevents it from scratching the door and it's bright color makes it more visible, reducing the chance of a stubbed toe.
The handle on the top provides a place to tie the rope.
The air venting is excellent, allowing it to sink quickly.
It's no loss to cut it away when it's hung up on rocks.
Please accept my deepest apologies for spreading any misinformation.
- - - If the sun is a star, why can't I see it at night?
MS did not threaten to raise OS prices, they threatened not to nearly give it away any more. Otherwise they'd have to pay the full price(that everyone else pays) of 89$ for the software. Same thing AOL wants to do by giving 35$ per PC. MS just did it as a credit, because they had a product that PC makers saw as valuable. AOL doesn't really have a lot that PC makers consider to add value to their product, so they pay cash.
That's precisely my point -- if you're talking about computer makers, which we are, Microsoft has tremendous power over them while AOL has none. That's why, as you say, Microsoft can rely on threats while AOL has to offer sweeteners.
Unsettling MOTD at my ISP.
1) What got Microsoft into trouble wasn't what they did but that they did it with a monopoly position. AOL hardly has a monopoly and can therefore legally do all sorts of things that would be illegal for Microsoft.
2) Anyway, I don't see where there's much similarity between Microsoft threatening to raise Windows prices to prohibitive levels for computer makers who don't do what they want and AOL offering bonuses to makers who deliver users to them.
To give this some perspective, Dell, Compaq and the rest are paying catalog owners and stores to give their products good placement -- and they're paying bonuses to salesmen who successfully move their boxes. (Apple doesn't pay those bonuses, which is why CompUSA salesmen are so reluctant to sell you a Mac even when you go in and demand one.)
Unsettling MOTD at my ISP.
MS's troll says in the article that AOL is "forcing people to select the most expensive service in the industry".
To that I say: 1. MacOS doesn't do that, and I'm sure some PC manufactures won't support AOL 2. You CAN actually say NO to AOL.
Burn Hollywood Burn
--CTH
--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
It's a classic case of, if you can't beat em ... join em.
from the article:
AOL also is seeking to give an advantage to Netscape, its own Web browser,
Netscape is now based on mozilla which is an open source product with a great XUL platform for extending functionality through add on applications that inherit the look and feel of the browser skin. I hope they get a Mozilla/Netscape Icon on everybodys desktop just because if they do, this will 'unseat' Internet Explorer as the browser king.
"The Most Fun Possible on 4 wheels" is at SunBuggy in Las Vegas
go on over to mozilla.org and download the latest nightly build. Netscape based their 6.0 browser on Mozilla's .8 release... Mozilla is now up to .9.3 release, still not even a 1.0 release. look deep into the feature set, browser the css demos, watch how fast pages render. once you use Mozilla, you'll agree that IE is a total piece of ..., Mozilla is a great example of people working together to make something great, Netscape is a collection of features and bookmarks added to the Mozilla browser. YES IT'S TAKEN A LONG TIME TO GET HERE, but we're now on par with IE destined to be the best available.
"The Most Fun Possible on 4 wheels" is at SunBuggy in Las Vegas
Actually, the reason I'm spoiled bandwidth-wise (as you seem to be implying by the Mom and Dad's basement remark) is because I've been using my college's OC-3 line for nine months (and, damn, I miss it!). Before that, for a year, I was shelling out $50 a month for RoadRunner (now, ALSO, AOL/TW, but it was no Mom-and-Pop then, either, for sure). It was nice to be able to just turn my computer on and have it be online, the way that Grandma and my little sister expect it to. I was simply referring to the interface and the lag and the rest of the crap I've put up with under AOL before.
Emacs: for people who just never know when to
Where did they threaten to raise the price of Windows to super high levels?
Actually, can you have a monopoly on the operating system front when people can still go to the store and buy another? That is one thing that still bugs me about the scenario of the MS monopoly?
Where is the importance of which browser is preloaded or used?
Where is the importance in the Instant Messenger?
Where is the importance in the media player?
There isn't, nothing MS proposed prevents me from getting another, which in fact is what I do. Heck, IE comes up and tells me I need QT or SW to play something, not quite threatening is it?
The key to being a monopoly is to have no choice other that yourself. I don't think its achieveable, not now, not 5 years ago, and not in 5 years, let alone ever.
So can AOL's decision be dangerous? Well the only threat AOL has is that in this day and age people are pretty attached to their email address.
Why not universalize them? Make them out to be like DNS... you may be x@aol.com, does that mean your mail must go there? Why not require ISPs and similar to let go the control of the mailbox, then it won't matter what platform or what ISP you use, you will always have a choice.
Its when you lose the freedom to switch that a monopoly exists, and we don't have that, nor were we approaching it.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Now we can have the worst^H^H^H^H^Hbest of both worlds with Windows world reknowned security and reliablilty and Netscape "Unique" page rendering engine - I think if they do this I'll finally move to linux. If I have to have a browser that sucks I might as well have the best OS.
PS - when they do this can someone post a list of computer manufacturers who do this so that I can avoid them?
we'll probably just be trading one tyrant for another because every manufacturer's main goal is profit and AOL is a household name.
Consumer advocates briefed on the proposals were unsettled by AOL's marketing techniques, comparing them to those used by Microsoft.
---
Developers: We can use your help.
Or make it easier, just give an example of a store or non-Dell catalog that sells new Dell computers. (I highly doubt they pay stores to push refurbished Dell systems)
Maybe you meant HP and Compaq?
Today the Globe and Mail is proclaiming that Canadian Internet usage has made a record leap!
Well besides the fact that i hate machines that are store bought, the first thing i do when a friend buys a new machine is wipe it and throw Win2k/Linux/FreeBSD or a combination thereof on it. Case in point me and a friend of mine got some laptops @ auction and formatted them the same day.
People tend to use whatever is on their computer when they unpack it and stick it onto their card table.
This is the saddest thing I have ever heard -- I got a free DVD with my player and I never even considered watching it. What is it about computers that leads people to beleive that they come pre-ordained to do whatever you want them to?
I think it has to do with the amount of crap we hand people with a new computer. It's overwhelming. Instead of, "here's a box, a 35 page manual, and you're good," it's "here's a box, your monitor box, your cables and printer and mouse and keybouard an a set of For Dummies books on the OS, the browser, setting up internet, using software, scratching your ass and solving world hunger." We give them so much shit to learn...doesn't it make sense that they don't have time to absorb it all, and make all the pertinant decisions? When you buy a TV, you know how to use it...channel up, channel down, volume controls. Computers just don't have that level of ease of use...programs don't have any uniformity or really intuitive user interface that is common among them, and this is one area where Open Source just isn't helping (read the report Sun did of new users on Gnome...you'll realise why you need evils like project managers and marketeers to make a pervasive OS).
Maybe, rather than handing them all the software at once and burying them, we should go back to the old Commodore method of software sales. You get a PC with an OS, it does basically nothing. Learn that. Then we'll hand you your web browser, and when you need it your word processor. If this was how software was received, maybe there'd be time to choose which provider and package you wanted based on informed input. But software is rush, rush, rush...people want everything now, because that's what we've sold them. When you do that, you're openning the door for cruddy software and $35 kickbacks. It's a bit like beer vendors at a baseball game. I'd love to have open competition, with the choice to choose whatever beer I liked for a competitive price. But to prevent a lot of "confusion," the stadium offers a license to only one beer man, who offers a choice of piss yellow beer or piss yellow light beer, each for an abyssmal price. I drink it because it's there and don't really enjoy it. Software on a new PC is the same...you use it because that's what you got, and don't really get to know there's better stuff out there.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
I upgraded AOL on a BYOA account/computer (cable modem.) Now when I start AOL I get a login dialog from dial up networking. I click cancel, and it logs me in. Nice job, AOL.
I am for the complete Trantorization of Earth.
> lame cable modem
Lame? Ehehehe, come out to the real world.
Stantz: " I liked the University. They gave us money, they gave us the facilities and we didn't have to produce anything! I've worked in the private sector. They expect results. You've never been out of college. You don't know what it's like out there."
I am for the complete Trantorization of Earth.
wasnt there an AOL setup installed by default with win95?
If you want linux to become more prevalent on the desktop, start giving away CD's to people.
The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them. -Einstein
Whom they do expect? Snowhite? I mean who is going to compete in the desktop with Microsoft? I don't like AOL, but competence seems better than monopoly, even if it's imperfect. Only somebody with market power can make such deals interestings to PC makers.
What I find really interesting is that surely now PC makers start realizing their own importance. They had danced to the tune that Microsoft played, but now it seems they can also play a bit. I interpret that like Microsoft is more dependent on the PC makers than the PC makers on Microsoft. Perhaps next time some monopolist or other will think twice before screwing up their resellers when they're ahead of the game.
--
Rome taught me patience and assiduous application to detail. Virtues which temper the boldness of great, general views.
Hmmm, I've often felt that AOL might be the only corporation out there with enough clout to take on M$. Simply because, like M$, they have numerous users who depend on them. Now what if AOL simply said to Hell with this, and grabbed a chunk of Linux code to make their own OS, complete with crowded desktop and AOL ads out the ying-yang. Would it be cheaper to make their own OS (and even give it away to subscribers), rather than get into a long drawn out battle with either M$ or the DOJ? Ghads.....
And at what freakin' point will the DOJ declare AOL a monopoly ?!?!? I see, MS can buy up companies left and right to try and drive out competition left and right, while AOL can buy MULTIPLE companies in NUMEROUS fields of commerce and thats OK !?!?!?! Hey AOL, BITE ME ! You've never gotten a DOLLAR of my money and you NEVER will !!!
Numbers of log-ons and connections is probably declining because more people are using broadband, meaning permanent connections, and the number of dialup connections is going down. This means people are settling with their broadband isp, and forgetting about the multitude of dialups that they used to use to get a decent connection, and also to see which dialup connection suited them best.
Come on, just how likely is it that the number of people getting net access is going down? Well, maybe because the majority now have connections, thus a slowdown in the number of new isp registrations. Seems logical enough, don't you think?
--
You were expecting a sig?
The same story on Yahoo News says they are going to pay $35 to the Computer maker for each customer that signs up through their desktop!
Also, since the sticking point in Microsoft bundling AOL with XP was AOL's unwillingness to standardize on IE, AOL must be contemplating emphasizing Netscape over IE (or at least alongside it). That can only be good, since Gecko is coming along nicely, and Netscape 6 supports Java 2. :-)
Granted AOL is another giant megacorp, but at least there is some form of competition happening there, and anything that boosts Java on the client is a good thing IMO. More client software for Linux will be the end result (although I can't see too many Linux folk running AOL).
186,282 mi/s...not just a good idea, its the law!
Galileo: "The Earth revolves around the Sun!"
Score: -1 100% Flamebait
I have also had internet accounts for *much* longer. I have kept both all of this time.
I understand that there are plenty of things *not* to like about AOL. But that being said, it still has some advantages.
Anytime I am out of the country, I have had NO trouble getting a TCP connection via AOL. It is pretty much global. One account and I can connect anywhere I need to. (my service level is the 10$/month BYOI) My other broadband ISP offers dial-ups in the US only.
With the advent of browser-based mail readers (still a recent event in my frame-work) this might not matter *as* much, but you can pretty well go to just about any computer out there and find AOL installed on it. This means friends' houses in other parts of the country, this means cyber cafes, this means libraries -- All usually have AOL on them.
I can set filters on my normal mail when I know I will be travelling and don't want to be bothered with a laptop (one more thing to lug around or be stolen) and bounce important mail to my AOL account. I have *NO* configuration (NO SMTP/POP settings to change) to do on someone else's machine. (CyberCafes don't like you messing with their machine.)
And most importantly, there are people who aren't techies but would like some internet access. (Let's call this the "Grandma Function.") Sure they can do a whole lot more with a real ISP, but A) they don't know how, B) they wouldn't know what they are missing, and C) they couldn't care less. For them, AOL is a perfect solution. No configuration of the TCP/IP stack. Just click a button and you are on the "Internet."
IF this person buys a newer machine at some point, migration is a breeze as most of the data is server side.
______
______
Once: you're a philosopher. Twice: a pervert.
...when AOL will start paying me for their advertising space on my desktop!
AOL and MS should be fighting over how to get customers to use their products and services. That's the way the system's supposed to work. If MS doesn't want AOL to gain the advantage, they should offer the box makers better incentives than AOL does. What MS was doing before was simply decreeing to the box makers what would go on the desktop and prohibiting them from doing the same thing with competitors products.
This shows that the finding that MS was guilty of illegally maintaining their monopoly did not come too late to have an impact. Already, AOL is seizing the opportunity to compete with MS, and others might too.
-jimbo
"Hold me Bob!" "I would if I could, man!" - Bob and Larry from VeggieTales
This book should be manadatory reading for those seeking to capture marketshare from MS or AOL. If MS and AOL engage in a full corporate war, then there is an open possibility for a third party to emerge as victorious --- a party with much fewer resources than either MS or AOL.
"There ought to be limits to freedom"
I've said it before, but let me repeat! NO ONE HAS TO BUY THIS STUFF.
We might WANT to buy this stuff, but if the thought of an MS OS, or and AOL desktop pisses you off enough you WONT. If they piss off enough people they GO BUST.
Its that simple. How many times in the past have some corp been on the brink of all out monopoly when someone just stands up and says "you know - enough people are pissed off that I might just be able to take them on".
If enough are - they will.
Now if you'll all just keep buying the linux, stop buying those damn DVDs you already have on video, and get your caffeine direct from the growers the world will be a better place! We can bring this stuff to a turn - never a stop, Linux will be evil one day, but at least a pause and a change of direction.
I don't want to experience anything sold, boxed or processed, as a career.
I don't want to process anything boxed, sold, or experienced.
I don't want to buy or sell or repair anything boxed, processed or experienced. You know, as a career. I don't want to do that.
If you meet the wabbit on the woad...
You seem to be taking this pretty seriously, I think you need take a nap.
now i know that AOL is stupid but this is over the top. mabye the smart-ones over there with the stupid "A" logo will figure out that QUALITY is the key not how many buttons it takes to send an e-mail. addictive sound bytes, new ways to organize old buttons, and pop-up windows are what have kept AOL alive. i think their own stench have sealed there fate.
Careful what you say around me.. I will assume you mean it.
now it would be nice if that competition led to the lowering of ISP prices, or improving software or service. However. something tells me that that isn't going to happen. I doubt many people who use AOL have ever experienced a good ISP. MS and AOL will continue to compete on which icon the user sees first, since that is probably the one he/she will click on. If two icons from competing ISPs are on the desktop, a battle will ensue over which one is above the other.
indefinately must be defined very loosely here. you'd be amazed what the "delete" button can do, when properly applied (this usually involves placing a finger, usually the index, middle, or ring finger over the delete key, and then applying downward pressure until they keyboard registers that the key has been pressed. On some computers, clear instructions will then appear, allowing the user to confirm the "delete" action).
Failing that, theres always deleting registry keys and uninstalling software modules. It would be rather poor of them to not give the modules an uninstall entry, but look at it this way.
If the adverts are too hard to remove and cause too much trouble for the user, less people will buy those computers. The manufacturer will either loose money, or rethink the advertisement paradigm. This isn't like operating systems, where peoples options are severly limited (practically). I would be pleased to see small-business computer vendors benefit from poor marketing desisions on behalf of the big-time players.
A cursory examination of my post would clearly reveal my email adress as "chaoswave2@aol.com". Registration to post on slashdot is, of course, absolutely free. AOL email is fast, reliable (this is over a cable-modem, remember), has NONE of the idiotic security vunerabilities that microsoft Outlook has, allows decent-sized file transfers (although in recent months/years ive been very dissapointed to see the allowable attachment size drop).
I'm being screwed by AOL? Sounds like you're just another brainwashed victim of the popular opinion. Sure, AOL has its problems, and its not the right choice for everyone. Its not even the right choice for most experienced computer users (which i modestly consider myself). Since you've decided to respond with my post with ill-explained and hostile rhetoric, i will explain to you why i use AOL.
1) My parents pay for it
2) It's easily accessable over the web
3) My AIM name as the same as my Email
3a) My email adress clearly implies my AIM name, which is useful for contact purposes
4) In the 8 years i have used it, i have found the quality of service to be more than adaquate in terms of speed of delivery, message handling, and client-software features (although i use the web client, didnt feel like mucking up my protocols with the client install again).
5) since ive had my email adress for 8 years, i'm going to keep it as long as possible for purposes of availibility
So, coward, how exactly am I getting screwed? The low monthly "bring your own ISP" fee (driven another 2-3 bucks cheaper by paying by the 2-year block..today its..what..9 or 10 bucks a month? of course, since we prepaid for several years [several years ago], it still works out to about 4 a month for us) gets my 5-person family seven email adresses, and access to AOL's content (which I personally find useless, nay, moronic, but is good for my 11 year old sister and Mother), while still allowing us to connect to the internet at broadband speeds.
It's called being a college student, and it lends itself to an active and fulfiling social life, i suggest you give it a try.
Of course, i was not merely referring to my IMMEDIATE availibility, but how easy it would be for someone who knew me 8 years ago to track me down again. I am easy to find and easy to communicate with, and through persuit of those principals, my ability to "make things happen" is increased. You obviously narrowed your perception of my statement just to have something to flame about.
ah well, trolls will be trolls.
making things happen? the sky's the limit. bringing the right people together, focusing them in the right direction, and bringing all the tools together to accomplish things none of us by ourselves would be able to do. Throw a lan party. Install a car stereo. Purchase thousands of dollars worth of cheap computer parts and resell them at a profit. Build a server. hack a TiVo. Throw a kegger. Dosent matter. To coordinate, you must communicate. To communicate, you must be availible.
It is regrettible that your time management issues have turned you into a bitter, grumpy troll, but I am thankful that i now have a clearer motivation to balance my hectic work/study schedual with my recreation.
The advantages of retaining my current email outweigh the disadvantages, was the point i was making. Sure, i COULD compile a huge, 400-500 person email list, track down everyone i know, and let them know my adress has changed, but that kind of mass-spam is a waste of bandwidth. Its just easier to leave it where it is, since it works fine.
You are willfully ignoring the fact that I am not paying for AOL email, my parents are. My parents are pretty set in their ways, and insist on retaining the aol service even though we have upgraded to cable modem. So, why not just keep using the same email adress? Makes pretty good sense to me. The decision is economical, since i don't have to pay any money to access higher-quality service than "free" usually implies.
As for "getting out of college and seeing how the world works", all you are using to base that comment on is the fact that you are incapable of reading the posts you respond to, or perhaps do not have a long enough attention span. I have made a sensible and economical decision about who's email service I use, that allows redundancy in instant messaging and availibility to contacts I have lost touch with. Haven't you ever changed email adresses, and then set the old one to auto-forward to the new one? That would certainly be useful in this case as a transitional step, but it is unavailible and unnessisary given my current arrangement.
I would say that my ability to intelligently analyze my current situation and make reasonable and economical decisions while maximizing productivity and availibility shows much more knowlege of the real world than, say, trolling messageboards with hostile comments to aleviate the boredom of your current situation, probably brought on by your own apathy and inability to balance work and play responsibly.
I'll take your desperate attempt to insult my ability to write as a consession of argument.
>>Holy shit! Hehehe. I was laughing so hard by the time I finished reading that that I almost crapped my pants. God, I love the fucking niavety of college students that think they have it all figured out.
oh, im just enjoying what i can do, while i can do it. You're obviously just jealous that you don't have time to do anything fun. I, on the other hand, have plenty of free time, with which I can do "fun stuff". Since the comments prior to the above (since you obviously didn't read them) had to do with the various advantages that lead ME to retain my oldskool AOL email adress, based on MY situation. There's nothing to "figure out", this is what I -am- doing, how things -do- work, and will continue to do so until my life's situation changes. when it does, i'll change with it, just like every other time.
Don't assume i'm incapable of succeeding where you've obviously already failed. I know plenty of successful married couples that maintain active and interesting social lives
It really is heartbreaking to see all of this hostile outpouring resulting from mid-life crisis.
actually, its called a private settlement. It does certainly -sound- like extortion, but law is a tricky subject anyhow. Basically, since people (in the state of connecticut at least) are breaking the law when they send you SPAM while obscuring the email's origin, you -can- sue them in court for a few thou, but you can also privately contact them (if you use sam spade or something similar to overcome the return-adress obfuscation) and offer them a private settlement of a lower amount to save them (and you) the court fees. Look around on theregister.co.uk for details about people who have done this.
Of course, your ramblings would make more sense if i spent any appreciable amount of time consuming alchohol, which was an off-base assumption that weakens your whole argument. If you think being "sociable" means getting drunk all the time, I'd say that's a serious problem of -yours-, not mine. I do the things I enjoy, and since i genuinely enjoy them, I consider them worthwhile activities.
As for "pegging you", my observations have been strictly limited to the contents of your posts, and i haven't derived any information you haven't clearly laid out in your amusingly defensive outlashings. You, on the other hand, have made the logical error of assuming that, first of all, "social life" is at all related to alchohol consumption, and second of all, that I hold that same truely sad outlook.
I never claimed to have anything figured out, I'm merely in tune with what I need to do, and what I want to do. That dosen't seem like an absurd or egotistical standpoint at all.
Are your hostile, overdefensive reactions to my rather mild statements signs of greater personal issues i wonder? If so, perhaps you should find therapy that is more effective than trolling on BBs'.
Hmm..as near as i can tell, the only people i've alienated thus far are..well..idiots. The people I surround myself make for some damn good company, and i can only expect the trend to continue.
::shrug::.
I'm not saying i -know- anything about you, i was merely suggesting possabilities. The fact that, each time, you have reacted to each suggestion in an extremely hostile manner only prooves that I am correct.
I'm also not saying i know anything beyond what i observe and experience, but those things arent all that complicated. Tracing this back, this all started because I enjoy being actively social. Specifically, i like organizing large groups of people to do fun stuff. I don't see what's so objectionable about that
There's really nothing to "figure out". That's thinking along the wrong lines.
Yeah, it would be nice to use POP email with my AOL service, and maybe somewhere down the line they'll impliment this.
Even still though, Outlook has a habit of letting arbitrary code run on your computer. I think its a wonderful program, I just don't feel like depending on such a hilariously vunerable client.
Of course, there are plenty of other email clients out there, just none i like as much as outlook.
As for the spam thing..sorry bucko, but you'll find that no matter where you go.
Actually, this is a fun idea i got from The Register:
My state has a law that says that if you intentionally misrepresent the headers/return path/transmission info/etc of a marketing email, you are breaking a fairly serious law. Many people are cornering spammers like this and extorting money, threatening a high-figure lawsuit (that I could easily win anyhow). Some people have been getting 4000-6000 USD PER-SPAMMER confronted in this fashion.
So kids, turn that spam into college tuition!
From the article:
"'AOL's actions are unprecidented and completely anti-consumer' said Microsoft Spokesman Vivek Varma."
::falls off chair laughing::
It's sad to see that big business revolves around the "idiot factor", that is, trying to influence the decisions of the idiots that will use whatever the "Out of Box Experience" dictates they should use.
Business is based on efficiency. Since successful business must be efficient, we can use this trend as proof that most computer users are, in fact, idiots. It's a sad thing.
As for the AOL thing, i use AOL myself just because ive had the same email adress since I was in 7th grade (8 years ago). I use AOL merely as an email client, and use my cable service provider for the actual internet connectivity. This makes AOL service MUCH cheaper (especially when you pay for blocks of years, which my parents do). When you remove the ISP factor out of AOL service, its actually quite good, i would just rather chew aluminum than rely on AOL for my actual internet connection.
Doesn't AOL realize that their market is by definition limited. There are only about 6 Billion people on this planet. That is a FINITE number!!!
I may be a pool man, but I am f@#*&ng Jon Bon Jovi's pool man!!!
find / -iname "*your*base*" -exec chown us.us {} \;