Actually you two are both wrong. The current (2007) version of the office file formats are fully documented on the ECMA site, not MSDN (though MSDN does also have some docs on the file formats as well). In fact, it is actually the file formats and not just API documentation that you will find at ECMA.
Yes, OpenXML formats are patented. Yes, ODF is patented too. Yes, both are protected under respective covenants not to sue. I'll leave you to google those details but arguments that try to explain why a format patented by one large and litigious company is worse than another standard patented by a different large and litigious company will be received only with amusement
Some day I think more FUD will come from open source supporters than emanates from Redmond!
Come now, there is not a single copy protection method out there that hasn't been cracked. What makes people believe the "new" vista WGA tech will be any different. To believe differently is to show a fundemental misunderstanding of how computer code works on the bare metal and how these things are broken.
The new WGA will be cracked within a month or less of release (probably before release!) and everything will be exactly as it is now.
Nothing to see here, move along...
Re:I'm a "Plan 9 from Bell Labs" user
on
Driving Plan 9
·
· Score: 1
I hope the Linux community isn't interested in growing.
So often I see a windows: by morons, for morons type attitude.
I get your point, but one of the reasons some things are better is *because* they are unfriendly. You can't just go and add pet foo crazy idea into the Linux kernel all that easily. From what I've observed, it is even less easy to get something stupid into Plan 9.
Popularity isn't all that it's made out to be. Plan 9 doesn't want to grow, it wants to be better.
Actually, MS has stated that support for the OpenXML formats are going to be ported back all the way to Office 2K, so my guess is that the new format is really going to take off. What's even better is that OpenXML is indeed open, already published, and eventually will be an ISO standard; OO.o will, no doubt, have true native support for the dominant formats some day. Yes, it's patented. But also, yes, MS has published legal papers promissing not to sue or charge. No, GPL software is not blocked from implementing the standard
That support in previous versions of office will likely be in substantially the same form as the ODF "plugin" that will be available for Office 2k7. IOW, it will simply not be the default format. Asking MS to make some other format the default over their own is just asking too much; I don't really see why ppl are bitching instead of being happy. This is just another religious war, as stupid as the rest. Won't it be a vast improvment over communicating with the rest of the world via the RTF format (which its self is a non-default format in OO.o et al)?
MS has stated that support will be as complete as possible with the only difficulties comming from areas where ODF doesn't support functionality or where the ODF spec is ambiguous. Their blog announcment specificaly states where thease areas are.
That's not really totally correct. You can run an app under XP (actually in Win2K also) as a different (Admin) user, but it is far from being automatic, buggy, and is very annoying.
In XP, you have to right-click->Run As... then type in the name of an administrative user and password. In Win2K, you have to hold down shift, then right-click->Run As... etc...
Then, it sometimes doesn't work. Like I can often run a cmd prompt, but find myself unable to launch an Admin instance of explorer for file ops. If I can launch another explorer window I can't drag files from it to the desktop or other unprivledged explorer windows. Other times it will launch the app, but still fail to work because the application is *EXCEPTIONALY* poorly designed and has hard coded paths etc... in it:(((((
What Vista is adding is like what OSX and a lot of Linux distributions already have. You, logged in as a regular user, double click or run something that needs admin rights and it responds by simply asking for the root/admin password. Then it just works.:)
I think you might be mis-interpreting what this thing does. Unless I've been seriously mis-guided I don't think this--at all--aims to replace PHP or ASP, or Servlets or any of those server side technologies.
I believe this serves a primary purpose of enhancing the UI and any client-side processing that might be done as part of an app. In no way do I see it removing or replacing much of the server-side data validation or processing. I bet this stuff works great along side EJB, RoR, or PHP. Just paste the generated JavaScript right in there amongst your PHP code:)
I could easily extend this argument and say that everyone just needs to learn assembler.
I agree it is important to know lower level concepts at a certain level. However, should I really need to learn every intricacy of the bugs in the DOM of IE vs. Mozilla in order to be productive with AJAX?
So, in the end he recomends giving Users full control or write access as means to get around the annoyance. Hell, why dont we just chmod -R 777/* and end all the "annoyances" of my Linux box too while we're at it?
Can't he just suggest that application designers get a clue and write apps that don't write uneccesarily to sensitive areas of the system? Hopefully annoyed end users will "motivate" lax companies when this happens instead of working around the issue.
GCC isn't all that (but it isn't the worst either). It takes more than running on multiple platforms to make something good. In fact, many people a lot more knowledgable than I would say that's a bad thing.:)
The venerable and late C/C++ users journel had a compiler shootout not too long ago and to my recollection GCC was squarely in the middle to lower end of the pack. The microsoft products weren't always first in every test but they placed well against the likes of Borland
Just to try and steer this back on topic I'll point out the Channel9 site on MSH/Monad/PowerShell http://channel9.msdn.com/wiki/default.aspx/Channel 9.MSHWiki It's a really great reasource for finding out about what this thing is all about. I have to say I was skeptical for a long while since I tried out the first beta (but didn't really dig in). After seeing some examples (check out the Jeffery Snover videos) I was suitably impressed. Impressed enough that I'd like to see something like it on Unixy things. Like others have said, if only there were a decent native terminal *sigh*
You're right, Outlook does suck (really really bad) for POP3 or IMAP usage. But most businesses probably use it with exchange server and connect remotely using RPC over HTTP or plain old MAPI through a VPN in cached mode.
In these latter situations, Outlook 2K3 works pretty much as well as if you were on the LAN.
...because they will say something like it was their "partners" that engaged in the deceptive practices. Then they will say that they will watch their partners more closely in the future.
I just got 2 servers and a presision workstation delivered at work. No OS installed on any of the three. One just has to shop carefully and not automatically go to the cheapest systems available.
Actually, it is quite a bit more than similar non-windows embedded NAS products. http://www.shopbuffalotech.com/ has a 1TB terastation for a cool grand. You can go even lower if you do some careful shopping.
The only NAS boxes I've seen recently in this price range all ran that winders storage server thing. Those actually do have one pretty nice feature: all the users and groups come from active directory if you're in that kind of environment. I'm not sure if any of these linux running ones do that yet.
Add a $50 linksys router and you've got everything this POS has.
tehee, I remember seeing so much bad VB code on geocities.
Maybe it's just that there's so much of it that no one example really stands out.
For me I see perl as allowing one to write bad code and VB as actively encouraging it with poor string handling abilities, etc...! Note: I haven't learned nor have I any experience with the newer VB.Net which in theory would promote better coding.
My belief is that most VB6 utility programmers would be better off writing in Python or Ruby
IIRC, the 32-bit legacy x86 mode performance of the Itanium is really, really slow because it's emulated. Basically no one in their right mind runs 32-bit code on them.
Not true. A lot of spam is now sent via thousands of zombies which would be nearly impossible to encompass in an SPF record.
It is true that SPF will not stop spam on its own. As part of the whole puzzle, SPF is best used along with a reputation system if you want to stop spam.
There are some problems for legitimate senders and are confined to situations where there is unknown or uncontrollable forwarding going on. There are ways around these problems too (SRS et al...)
Another problem is that M$ is trying to co-op SPF with this "Sender-ID" which is NOT the same thing!
I tend to buy systems based apon sound reviews, personal experience, and technical documentation, not what a very vocal minority or majority might be ranting on about.
Slashdot Mirror
Actually you two are both wrong. The current (2007) version of the office file formats are fully documented on the ECMA site, not MSDN (though MSDN does also have some docs on the file formats as well). In fact, it is actually the file formats and not just API documentation that you will find at ECMA.
h tm
9 .aspx
Office 2007 File Format Specs:
http://www.ecma-international.org/memento/TC45-M.
Listing of MSDN Articles on working with the Office 2K7 Formats:
http://openxmldeveloper.org/archive/2006/08/31/59
*Bzzt* s/are/were/ thanks for playing...
n t_work/TC45-2006-50_final_draft.htm and see for yourself exactly how open it is. Notice how you can download the complete file format specs *without* accepting any kind of licensing agreement.
Like seemingly 99.99999% of all OSS zealots you probably are outraged at my statment. Why not visit http://www.ecma-international.org/news/TC45_curre
Yes, OpenXML formats are patented. Yes, ODF is patented too. Yes, both are protected under respective covenants not to sue. I'll leave you to google those details but arguments that try to explain why a format patented by one large and litigious company is worse than another standard patented by a different large and litigious company will be received only with amusement
Some day I think more FUD will come from open source supporters than emanates from Redmond!
Come now, there is not a single copy protection method out there that hasn't been cracked. What makes people believe the "new" vista WGA tech will be any different. To believe differently is to show a fundemental misunderstanding of how computer code works on the bare metal and how these things are broken.
The new WGA will be cracked within a month or less of release (probably before release!) and everything will be exactly as it is now.
Nothing to see here, move along...
I hope the Linux community isn't interested in growing.
So often I see a windows: by morons, for morons type attitude.
I get your point, but one of the reasons some things are better is *because* they are unfriendly. You can't just go and add pet foo crazy idea into the Linux kernel all that easily. From what I've observed, it is even less easy to get something stupid into Plan 9.
Popularity isn't all that it's made out to be. Plan 9 doesn't want to grow, it wants to be better.
Actually, MS has stated that support for the OpenXML formats are going to be ported back all the way to Office 2K, so my guess is that the new format is really going to take off. What's even better is that OpenXML is indeed open, already published, and eventually will be an ISO standard; OO.o will, no doubt, have true native support for the dominant formats some day. Yes, it's patented. But also, yes, MS has published legal papers promissing not to sue or charge. No, GPL software is not blocked from implementing the standard
That support in previous versions of office will likely be in substantially the same form as the ODF "plugin" that will be available for Office 2k7. IOW, it will simply not be the default format. Asking MS to make some other format the default over their own is just asking too much; I don't really see why ppl are bitching instead of being happy. This is just another religious war, as stupid as the rest. Won't it be a vast improvment over communicating with the rest of the world via the RTF format (which its self is a non-default format in OO.o et al)?
MS has stated that support will be as complete as possible with the only difficulties comming from areas where ODF doesn't support functionality or where the ODF spec is ambiguous. Their blog announcment specificaly states where thease areas are.
Really, I would love to know how to do that :) Maybe some third party util?
That's not really totally correct. You can run an app under XP (actually in Win2K also) as a different (Admin) user, but it is far from being automatic, buggy, and is very annoying.
:(((((
:)
In XP, you have to right-click->Run As... then type in the name of an administrative user and password. In Win2K, you have to hold down shift, then right-click->Run As... etc...
Then, it sometimes doesn't work. Like I can often run a cmd prompt, but find myself unable to launch an Admin instance of explorer for file ops. If I can launch another explorer window I can't drag files from it to the desktop or other unprivledged explorer windows. Other times it will launch the app, but still fail to work because the application is *EXCEPTIONALY* poorly designed and has hard coded paths etc... in it
What Vista is adding is like what OSX and a lot of Linux distributions already have. You, logged in as a regular user, double click or run something that needs admin rights and it responds by simply asking for the root/admin password. Then it just works.
I think you might be mis-interpreting what this thing does. Unless I've been seriously mis-guided I don't think this--at all--aims to replace PHP or ASP, or Servlets or any of those server side technologies.
:)
I believe this serves a primary purpose of enhancing the UI and any client-side processing that might be done as part of an app. In no way do I see it removing or replacing much of the server-side data validation or processing. I bet this stuff works great along side EJB, RoR, or PHP. Just paste the generated JavaScript right in there amongst your PHP code
I could easily extend this argument and say that everyone just needs to learn assembler.
I agree it is important to know lower level concepts at a certain level. However, should I really need to learn every intricacy of the bugs in the DOM of IE vs. Mozilla in order to be productive with AJAX?
Just do the building of the "evil" BLOB after it builds, cache it, and then auto-load the result
So, in the end he recomends giving Users full control or write access as means to get around the annoyance. Hell, why dont we just chmod -R 777 /* and end all the "annoyances" of my Linux box too while we're at it?
Can't he just suggest that application designers get a clue and write apps that don't write uneccesarily to sensitive areas of the system? Hopefully annoyed end users will "motivate" lax companies when this happens instead of working around the issue.
GCC isn't all that (but it isn't the worst either). It takes more than running on multiple platforms to make something good. In fact, many people a lot more knowledgable than I would say that's a bad thing. :)
l /046972.html
l 9.MSHWiki It's a really great reasource for finding out about what this thing is all about. I have to say I was skeptical for a long while since I tried out the first beta (but didn't really dig in). After seeing some examples (check out the Jeffery Snover videos) I was suitably impressed. Impressed enough that I'd like to see something like it on Unixy things. Like others have said, if only there were a decent native terminal *sigh*
http://lists.cse.psu.edu/archives/9fans/2006-Apri
The venerable and late C/C++ users journel had a compiler shootout not too long ago and to my recollection GCC was squarely in the middle to lower end of the pack. The microsoft products weren't always first in every test but they placed well against the likes of Borland
Just to try and steer this back on topic I'll point out the Channel9 site on MSH/Monad/PowerShell http://channel9.msdn.com/wiki/default.aspx/Channe
Promising, but performance is very, no unuseably slow.
You're right, Outlook does suck (really really bad) for POP3 or IMAP usage. But most businesses probably use it with exchange server and connect remotely using RPC over HTTP or plain old MAPI through a VPN in cached mode.
In these latter situations, Outlook 2K3 works pretty much as well as if you were on the LAN.
...because they will say something like it was their "partners" that engaged in the deceptive practices. Then they will say that they will watch their partners more closely in the future.
I just got 2 servers and a presision workstation delivered at work. No OS installed on any of the three. One just has to shop carefully and not automatically go to the cheapest systems available.
Actually, it is quite a bit more than similar non-windows embedded NAS products. http://www.shopbuffalotech.com/ has a 1TB terastation for a cool grand. You can go even lower if you do some careful shopping.
The only NAS boxes I've seen recently in this price range all ran that winders storage server thing. Those actually do have one pretty nice feature: all the users and groups come from active directory if you're in that kind of environment. I'm not sure if any of these linux running ones do that yet.
Add a $50 linksys router and you've got everything this POS has.
I just wonder what the tipping point will be before we start seeing an exponential rise in Mac malware.
Then what, the masses start switching to BSD or Linux?
Well then, maybe they should make more films that rely on plot and qualities other than expensive special effects.
tehee, I remember seeing so much bad VB code on geocities.
Maybe it's just that there's so much of it that no one example really stands out.
For me I see perl as allowing one to write bad code and VB as actively encouraging it with poor string handling abilities, etc...! Note: I haven't learned nor have I any experience with the newer VB.Net which in theory would promote better coding.
My belief is that most VB6 utility programmers would be better off writing in Python or Ruby
IIRC, the 32-bit legacy x86 mode performance of the Itanium is really, really slow because it's emulated. Basically no one in their right mind runs 32-bit code on them.
Not true. A lot of spam is now sent via thousands of zombies which would be nearly impossible to encompass in an SPF record.
It is true that SPF will not stop spam on its own. As part of the whole puzzle, SPF is best used along with a reputation system if you want to stop spam.
There are some problems for legitimate senders and are confined to situations where there is unknown or uncontrollable forwarding going on. There are ways around these problems too (SRS et al...)
Another problem is that M$ is trying to co-op SPF with this "Sender-ID" which is NOT the same thing!
In this case, you then need to be sure to add your ISP's outgoing mail servers to your SPF record.
Having to forge the From: makes no difference
I tend to buy systems based apon sound reviews, personal experience, and technical documentation, not what a very vocal minority or majority might be ranting on about.
IIRC most of .NET just wrappers around the same old API's?
Performance is already bad enough to want to put another layer on it. It may be worth it when you want to rapidly develop some app but an OS, I dunno.