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1 Million Windows to Mac Converts So Far in 2005
UltimaGuy writes to tell us AppleInsider is reporting that according to one Wall Street analyst over one million Windows users have switched to Mac in the first three quarters of 2005. It is speculated that these numbers are a direct result of the popularity gained through the iPod and related technologies in addition to security concerns from Microsoft. From the article: "According to checks with Apple Store Specialists, Wolf also said a larger than expected percentage of Windows to Mac converts appear to be purchasing Apple's higher-end systems and that their transition is fueled by the epidemic of viruses and malware on the Windows platform."
While I am sure this is probably random guesses and whohar from this one analyst, I actually somewhat believe him from my observations from down-under (Australia).
As a young man that works for a family owned and quite large computer business I've over the years seen people generally not ask very many questions, to now every day hearing people wanting details on Macs, and how they compare to standard white boxes.
Now bundle this in with the fact that our local, and only Apple store is constantly flourishing with business as compared to a few years ago when it was rare to see more then 1 person at a time in there, you'll understand why it's possible Apple have converted so many users.
Just in my direct experience over the last few years, it's converted myself, my brother, my mother and a few friends of mine - (2 to be exact).
It's also at the point, and while I am growing up and establishing my future that me owning and operating a Apple franchise is highly possible.
I've also seen the websites I manage, which are local to our area, sky rocket from 5-10 hits per week from Mac users, to now over 250-300 unique Mac users per week and raising.
Apple are on to something here, and Steve Jobs knows it!
TFA:
TFA seems to be using "switched to" and "converted" interchangably with "purchased", implying that every Windows user who bought a Mac was turning his or her back on PCs. I don't think that has to be the case at all. If we assume that TFA is right about the reason for such good Mac sales (derriving from the strength of the ipod), then isn't it reasonable to assume that a fair number of those are people who are buying Macs not as their exclusive computer, but possibly in addition or in complement to their PCs?
Maybe the real signficance of this (assuming the numbers are correct) is that it's no longer uncool to own more than one computer!
AOL has signed up 2 million new users for their newbie-friendly internet service thru their dell computer preinstalls alone.
Just because I bought a Mac does not make me a "convert". In fact, I don't particuarly care for OS X at all. Yeah, it does some stuff well but it's such a different UI for me that I'm just not all that comfortable using it.
I seriously hope that I'm not lumped in that 1 million figure.
I just wonder what the tipping point will be before we start seeing an exponential rise in Mac malware.
Then what, the masses start switching to BSD or Linux?
--
... is the prohibitive cost here in Australia. The 15.2" Powerbook I want (with a spare battery and 2Gb RAM as the only upgrades) will set me back in excess of AU$4200.
I get to play with a Mac a little at work for some of my app testing, and I have serious envy of the guy whose desk it sits on...
Is this just a publicity stunt to say, hey everyone else is moving to mac so you should to?
CS: It is all sink or swim...oh and did I mention there are sharks in that water?
August 15, The date I made the switch!! :-)
Actually, it was the Mac mini which caused me to use the Mac as my primary home computer, not the iPod.
Ever since Mac started running on BSD, it's a better option than Windows for Unix converts.
Do you suppose these specialists abbreviate their title on their business cards?
Unknown host pong.
I'm guessing a lot of people use both macs and PCs for different features. Most video/photo editors and designers probably can't live without a mac for work, but when you come home and want to use the software others can...
I realize I'm setting myself up, but I have not RTFA yet. Do people that casually get into it count among those statistics? For example, a friend gave me an old 400mhz G3 iMac for free because he had no more use for it.
I just play with it to see how OSX works and use apps I wouldn't normally use on my PC. This is the most exposure to a Mac that I have had since the original 1984 Macs. Does that make me one of the "converted"?
Actually I'm pretty sure it's a direct result of all those dads buying their college-bound daughters Macs because they were told they wouldn't be cool without them.
ummm... isn't mac 0S X BSD with a pretty interface?
They are changing the campaign theme from 'Switch' to 'Come Out Of The Closet!"
Talk about target marketing!
They must have not experienced the Adam and Eve virus... you know, the one that takes a few bytes out of your Apple. [Credit: somewhere on the internet]
A few weeks ago I went to Startup School, a conference for hackers with entrepreneurial interests that was hosted by Paul Graham. I'd say 80% of the people there with laptops had macs. It was one of the most amazing things I'd ever seen, to look back from the front of the room and see an entire roomful of Apple computers. I think Paul is right that most of the new Apple users aren't switchers, but rather are switch-backers. I for one am extremely happy with my powerbook that I bought two years ago, switching back from XP, so I don't think I will ever become a switch-back-backer. The amazing thing is that even though this computer 22 months old it feels brand new, rechargable battery issues aside. I have never had to reformat the hard drive, remove a virus, or uninstall any adware. I know that it is theoretically possible to get viruses on an Apple and there have been proof of concepts, but personally I don't give a damn about theory. All I care about is my last two years of "just works" computing.
"It is speculated that these numbers are a direct result of the popularity gained through the iPod "
So, if i own an ipod, but have 5 windows computers, does that mean i "Switched" to ipod?
What if i own an imac mini (good to have, small, cute, good for a den computer when i want to check news/status of the intarweb), but still have 5 other windows computers and only use the mini for half an hour max every day. Does that mean i switch?
What about grandma who never had a computer, ever, and her kids decide that a mac would be the best solution for an elderly computer user, did she "switch"?
I 3 marketing hype...
Is it sad that I am more likely to recognize you and your posts by your sig than your name or UID?
Me for one ... my new machine will be the first I've had since 1997 for which Linux is not the main OS.
James P. Barrett
Now that's what I call progress.
In summary, unattractive squares should stick to Linux and Windows. Macs are for different thinkers.
* * * gallery updated 5 Nov. 2005 * * *
They'll have more users when the piracy thing catches on. Hell, I wouldn't use Windows if it wasn't free...
My hubby and I are two of those converts out there. After the zillionth windows disaster, we saved up and got a set of powerbooks. I can't say the iPods had anything to do with it because we didn't get a set of those until after we got the powerbooks. I always hated the overzealous mac lover, but it appears I just bought my way into the cult. I can't be happier to have switched, as I haven't had one problem since February. That's definitely longer than I went without having to tweak my PC box.
Nothing hides evidence like a stew. -Gus Pratt
Install OSX on your PC. Posted from an OSx86 box.
an apple a day keeps the viruses at bay
And is anyone keeping track of the number of people that switched BACK after discovering that they have to re...invest substantial amount of money into Mac version of software titles they already own for the x86?
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
4 of those converts are mine, plus one in Europe!
And yeah, they all love it.
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
What is the current % of mac users out there? (were there, say, 90 million copies of windows sold? (that sad thing is that I don't even know how rediculous this question is)) Meaning that nothing much has changed (give or take).
Furthermore, isn't purchasing a bad way of determining number of users? For example, wouldn't x86s assembled from parts would be difficult to measure how many computers are currently in use?
Am I open minded towards open source, or closed minded towards closed source?
Why yes...yes it is.
Noone bother explaining the composition of Mac OSX AGAIN. Look it up if you're curious, it's like +5 redundant already.
is fueled by the epidemic of viruses and malware on the Windows platform.
Or rather, is fueled by the epidemic of viruses and malware that IS the Windows platform!
I'm one of them. I actually switched *back* to the Mac.
It's not all roses (some niche apps are on the PC only, like my preferred family tree software and the software for my Polar heart rate monitor), but overall I'm glad I made the switch (back).
Anyone wanna take bets as to who's ass this statistic was pulled out of? I doubt it's a completely baseless claim, though. I know several people who have already or are considering switching to Mac, in light of how much the company overall has improved in the later half-dozen years.
The primary reason I abandoned my Thinkpad was, I think, that I outgrew tinkering. It used to be fun to make ALSA work and to figure out the winmodem and all that, but after one more broken kernel upgade, I just didn't want to do it any more. Meanwhile, OS X was just the right thing at the right time for me.
Now (postdoc) I know at least three colleagues who have moved to Mac desktops, and since all our processing software (mostly GPL/BSD licensed) is just as happy on the Mac platform as on Linux, I might do so too. (See, for example, Professional Astronomy Software for Mac OSX.)
Conclusion 1: I "switched" (partly), and I was counted as leaving Windows (my Thinkpad can still boot WinMe, I think), but I actually left Linux.
Conclusion 2: Lickable hardware is *nice*. I bought a nano last weekend!
"I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way."
I switched from using a linux desktop for the past 4 years to almost exclusively using a mac. What's the size of my demographic? What do you mean nobody cares?
You can double that number to count Mac-switchers from all over the world.
Maybe it's because Apple finally came down off their high horse and offered an affordable computer for once?
It's time to sell when you start hearing all this "Mac's going to take over" propaganda.
The time to buy would have been when Apple was about to go under 1997.
The bottom line is that Apple is in the fashion business, not the serious computer business. What's iPod to day is walkman tomorrow.
I switched to a Mac as much because Mac hardware is just higher quality than most PC hardware. I am more comfortable on Linux than on Windows, so I joined the "cult of mac" because I was tired of my white (or black) boxes falling a part after 2 or 3 years of use. (built in ether net dies, parallel port dies, USB ports die, machine finally refuses to boot) Macs cost more, but they appear to be higher quality.
But I do agree that the iPod and iTunes has probably introduced many people to Apple. I realize I am not typical in my knowledge of the pros and cons of OS's.
Think Deeply.
I don't particuarly care for OS X at all. Yeah, it does some stuff well but it's such a different UI for me that I'm just not all that comfortable using it.
I think you don't like change and having to learn how to do basic tasks again, rather than disliking OSX per se... ya know : )
Hang in there, it gets good.
You can't take the sky from me...
There probably is no correlation between people buying iPods, people using Wintel, and people buying Macs...
The lifecycle of a PC is about 2 years. A mac is about 5 years. Its probable that this is just a turnover of pre-existing mac users.
Nobody I know or has met who has a Mac bought one because of an iPod.
One one person I've met has bought a Mac because of Windows issues... and they were also a frustrated Linux user.
However, I've met a few people who have bought Macs just because they look cool, fit in with their Ikea furniture, and are trendy.
(I'm a former Mac user. Now I use Windows, mostly for games. Not that I want to... I had the choice between starving MacOS developer, average Wintel developer, or corpulent enterprise Java developer. After starving for a number of years, I chose the corpulent route.)
/\/\icro/\/\uncher
It'd be interesting to see how those numbers were gathered. I'm guessing that it's nothing more than a simple increase in the number of Mac's purchased this year vs. last year instead of those that have actually switched over.
So, for example, last year I purchased 3 Mac's (a G5, a Mini, and a 12" laptop), but retained my two Windows PC's. There is no possible way the author could count, nor should they, me as a 3 time switcher.
Buncha crap to just get published, if you ask me.
"Despite the Needham's positive comments on Apple, the firm on Monday downgraded shares of the company's stock to "Hold," saying it believes Apple shares are now "fully valued.""
I can't help thinking there is something seriously screwed up in our economic system. A wildly successful company gets its stock downgraded. I understand the rational for this - i.e. it's chances of going up in the future are low - but its sort of a strange logic. If a company becomes wildly successful, takes over a market, and matures into a stable entity producing good product the stock market loses significant interest as soon as the company reaches "maturity." I can see this for a stock not paying dividends, but really based on the logic I see given for stock buying it's not just a little like betting on sporting events - it's EXACTLY like betting on sporting events. States that want to make gambling illegal should take a look at the stock market as problem number one.
Someday, our economy may move towards a kind of steady state condition when fossil fuel becomes expensive and people won't be interested in buying anything disposible. Ever notice how virtually EVERYTHING is disposable nowadays? Make it low quality, sell it cheap, and depend on people having to buy lots of whatever it is when their old ones become obsolete/go out of style (that one really gets me)/crumble into dust because they're so cheaply made. The resources it takes to make these things are lost, the raw materials that could have made better quality, more durable products are lost. I shudder to think what we are going to look like in the eyes of future generations. Virtually all economic, corporate, and even governmental thinking is now focused on short term returns and enjoyment at the expense of the long term. Renewable energy? Why should we fund that? We've got enough oil to last us, and working for future concerns hurts this quarters profits.
Bah. Science, long term thinking, conservation - alien thoughts to a massive part of our society. Community means absolutely nothing - there is no sense of community thinking in corporate or government circles any more. It's all equations, and people aren't in them. Profit, re-election, power... I think Orwell might have been right, in the end. With no sense of community to hold us together, with no caring for other human beings, I have my doubts that society can be stable in the long term.
I am contemplating buying a Mac Mini just to check things out. Doesn't mean I'll be dropping my Windows machines any time soon.
To me this increase in sales can be somewhat attributed to the success of the ipod. The ipod certainally has brought a whole lot more exposure to apple in general over the last 12 months. And it's not like OSX is a bad OS for them to be pushing, if someone is curious and checks it out they probably won't be too dissapointed. Couple that with the fact that Windows XP is a few years old and is starting to seem a little dated. Windows will probably strike back a little come Vista but I guess only time will tell.
"their transition is fueled by the epidemic of viruses and malware on the Windows platform."
Their transition is expected to fuel an epidemic of viruses and malware on the Mac platform.
I'm sure a lot of those 'converts' were due to the Mac Mini. I know, for me, the #1 reason why I never even tried owning a Mac was because I wasn't willing to spend $1-3k to try something out. $500 is a lot easier to spend than $2k for a PowerMac.
Then you have an ever-growing application support for OSX. Large games like World of Warcraft coming with a Mac client at release surely can't hurt.
Plus, damn if the iBooks don't look a lot nicer than my drab, boring Thinkpad.
There's one born every minute.
(Well, OK, almost two per minute..)
Fuck it
Just becoz they have an extra high sale doesn't mean every single one has converted. And they would have no clue how many that have got a PC or *nix box instead of their old Mac. Sales go up and down. Welcome to a regular market.
TFA: "If we assume that all of the growth in Mac shipments during the past three quarters resulted from Windows users purchasing a Mac, Or Mac users wanted a second PC, or their kids or parents needed their first or new immigrant H1B workers bought them. How can they assume these numbers are ex-Win users?
appear to be purchasing Apple's higher-end systems They appear to be? So they might not be? Huh?
fueled by the epidemic of viruses and malware on the Windows platform. Based on what figures? Last year it was "fueled by better video editing" and before that "fueled by better graphics editing" as sales people only mimicked their pitches.
the firm on Monday downgraded shares of the company's stock to "Hold," saying it believes Apple shares are now "fully valued." Because the 1 million Windows converts are all that will convert? Not only shit can be pulled from an analyst's ass.
"During the past year, in response to the introduction of breakthrough new iPods and Macs and outstanding financial results, we've doubled our price target." And even $61 is a worthless number, offering no real income (profit dividends, interest, commitment sales, etc). Take your stock money, start your own business, and stop gambling.
Still, the analyst hedges his bets, explaining Apple's "frenetic pace of innovation" could present new opportunities,"The ship is not sinking, but it might. It could also fly possibly." These people are worthless.
I have friends who are analysts, and they're worthless, too. My Costa Rican bookie gives me good advice based on the pros. These analysts either give neutral advice, or just enough so that mom's stock will go up.
Think about it, most apps people are interested in are already included with the base Apple. My guess is that a lot of the switchers out there are frustrated users (generally older) who have HAD IT with the spyware and other BS security games on the PC.
Now what do those people do? Hmmm. Word processing maybe, Internet (probably AOL), listen to music / watch movies (covered), etc. Years ago I think you'd be right about this. If you wanted a simple calculator program or even wanted to play a CD you had to buy a program to do it. Nowadays, all of that sort of thing is included with most computers - particularly Apple ones.
I've converted my own school's dorm machines to Mac Mini's (all 35 of them) this year and the main reason was the security issues associated with Windows. Well... That, and the girls just LOVE those things!
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
How many Mac users bought non-Macs? Are they subtracted from the "1 million"?
Maybe 20 million people installed Linux this year, but I doubt more than 1/4 of them will still be using it next year.
These are interesting times to be a Mac user. It's incredible to say it, but Apple is actually on the upswing after a decade of total Windows dominance. Dell's revenues and sales are down while Apple's keep growing beyond the industry average.
As a Mac user myself, I'll just say this. I don't want an Apple monopoly dominating computing; I would just like an Apple marketshare at around 35%-45% again. It would make for a much healthier market and would mean a lot more applications for Mac, instead of waiting a year later for a third-party port.
So before you Mac-hating Linux kids start flaming another Apple article, most of us just want less Windows domination. That wretched pile of crap has wasted more time and money on reboots, endless "configuration wizards," registry cleanings, spyware cleanings, resource-sucking antivirus software, and so on. It's so bad that a lot of normal people are afraid of computers and their difficulty--they don't realize it's Windows that is difficult. Computers don't have to be.
"Sufferin' succotash."
"Once you go Mac, you never go back!"
I think, as time pass by, and more developer and systems makers realize that as long as the data is portable (.pdf, .html, .jpg, .mp3, .ogg) the system used to access the data becomes less and less relevant, I think more ppl may switch to alternative platform as they learn that their data will move with them.
needham & co, in the financial world doesn't carry allot of weight. I would hardly call them "Wall Street".
"If we assume that all of the growth in Mac shipments during the past three quarters resulted from Windows users purchasing a Mac, then purchases by Windows users exceeded one million,"
That statement alone should have made this post rejected by slashdot. What a load of crap. Lets talk about all the kids that go to college and buy their first computer, tons of that market is MAC. How about Business' expanding their creative departments. I have two clients that doubled their art departments and added almost 100 macs. That doesn't mean they artists were Windows users.
I believe its possible that there are allot of converts, but certainly can't conclude that by this logic or post.
Could this be because Apple's higher-end systems are comparable to middle-range PC's?
On se Internetz nobody noes your German.
Background: First notebook computer I ever owned was a Powerbook 100, followed by a Powerbook 140, back in the early 90s. I left the Mac world (thanks to my job) in 1994, and I returned in fall 2004 with my purchase of an iBook G4.
I really like this machine. Most of the time, anyway. It's small (I got the 12" model), light (5 pounds), and elegant. It performs well enough for everything I do, which includes some system administration, some development, and a lot of email, web browsing, and writing. I love the integration of PDF with the system, and the fact that so many useful applications come bundled with the machine. OpenType is simply beautiful, at least with a word processor like Mellel that uses it (don't even ask Word to do something like NICE typesetting). TeXShop is a wonderful environment, and it only runs under OS X. I love having a UNIX command prompt for when the going gets tough.
Sadly, I find myself considering running Yellow Dog Linux on the machine lately, if only to get some tools to do larger-scale writing with. I don't really like Word for Mac 2004, but, frankly, what else is there? OpenOffice.org is a superb writing platform, but OpenOffice.org under the Mac's X11 is painful. NeoOffice/J is even more painful, simply because it's so SLOW! Mellel is sleek and inexpensive, but kyrie eleison if you try to do anything other than report-type text (e.g., a brochure, screenplay, etc.) The big DTP packages are here, but do more (at a higher price) than what I need. Scribus isn't quite where it needs to be yet. TeXShop/LaTeX do beautiful work, but, again, for anything more than report-type text, I'll spend hours figuring out the incantations to get it to format the way I want it to.
I really love this machine, but, over the past 6 months, it's just not doing the job I need it to. And that's why I use a computer -- not because it's cool, or cute, or powerful.
Would someone please tell Apple to fund the development of a real competitor to Office? One called OpenOffice.org is a prime candidate, but they need help.
This is truly great news!!
:)!
Im also getting a mac soon, I think soon more people will be hopping over, Why should we spend X amount of money on virus, firewall and adware software each year?
I wont be swopping for this reason though, 99% of the design industry is mac orientated so its essential...
Im glad more people are seeing apple as another option though
Is it really because Macintosh is better or is the problem with the user? Even these Mac users eventually while have some kind of problems. With Windows there are just to many things to click to get spyware, adware, viruses or whatever.
One of the "Linux guys" has an iPod.
http://wakkah.net/pub/lol_ipod.png
---
The only thing I hate more than a hypocrite is a person who hates hypocrites.
Generated by SlashdotRndSig via GreaseMonkey
Why is it that when you believe something it's an opinion, but when I believe something it's a manifesto?
Without meaning to troll (and logging in to prove it!), is this going to be the new "Firefox at 10%"?
:D
Are we going to hear sensationalist reports every couple of months that "Apple usage has increased x% so far this year!", while the number remains surreally the exact same?
I started working w/ a graphic design group (I do web coding) about 10 months ago. All they had was Macs and I was forced to use one. I began the job having an intrinsic hatred for OSX, but within about a month I was hooked. I've found it to be a much easier system to navigate and get things done in, and now use it exclusively (except having to use a PC to work with a client's PPT file here and there). Since then, I have also converted 8 friends to Macs. Apple should pay me a commission :)
I went from Windows XP to Linux (SuSE 9.x) to a Mac (iMac G5) running OS X Tiger. Although I still maintain machines with all three operating systems, I use my iMac 99% of the time. In that sense I'm a "switcher". Yes, I bought an iPod while still using Windows, but that wasn't the reason I got a Mac. Everyone I know that owns a Mac swears by them. After using one for about 9 months now I can honestly say it's the most elegant, well thought out operating system and hardware combination I've ever used, period. I simply get more done in less time and with less hassle using OS X than I ever did in Windows or Linux.
FYI: I use Linux as a L.A.M.P. server and I use Windows to connect through a client's VPN that requires me to use Symantec's VPN product. Otherwise I can honestly say I wouldn't have a use for Windows at all anymore.
Sure, over 90 million computers world wide run Microsoft Windows. We run this OS because its not a choice, Windows is basically imposed in our daily lives, even our careers. As a computer engineer I know that. Go ahead and put in your resume, you only know Mac. You will never find a job... (at least on a computer oriented career), Windows rules all our lives and what do we get of it? More viruses, faulty hardware, lack of security and the same ol' beige box feeling we have had since we laid our hands on a PC for ever. I mean, anyone my age knows that the first PC they laid their hands on was a beige tower of some bulky size. And that was at least 15 years ago. Take a look how cars change in 15 years...
Then look at apple... everynow and then, they shove out a new computer design, always pushing technology to an edge, first with the flat panel imacs, then the ipods, and then OSX, which is basically what everyone has tried to do with Linux. OSX to me is the embodiment of Linux on the Desktop.
I just know that since i switched to apple, I dont worry anymore of viruses, nor i worry if my e-mail has some bundled adware into it, and like many other people have said in this post, it could eventually happen, but right now it hasn't happened for me.
I recently dug myself deeper into apple. I bought a G5 Dual 2.0ghz and have it running with 4gb ram, and the works. Sure i admit i miss my games on the PC... although i play World of Warcraft, without any problems on my powermac, and any other games I play, i play'em on my Xbox, and eventually my 360. My GF who is also an Engineer uses windows because of her daily work, but she uses my mac everynow and often and she likes it a lot... im sure she will want one once we move in toghether.
Finally, i don't know what future Vista will offer anyone. Everything Vista does, OSX does for me. Plus OSX is far more secure than Vista will ever be. The Software part, well its coming around... At least anything i need to use or do I can do it on my mac... no biggy there. Just think other companies should try to develpe more ingenuity and true innovation like Apple does. Instead of stealing ideas only to develop them shittierly than they are originally developed. OSX has brought apple out of the dark ages into the light. I just wish we could all enjoy of the benefits this brings forward.
Now let me go back to my GF and keep raising those GF Points up... I want a video ipod... :)
Nom de dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperie de connard d encule de ta mere.
Hello, you've won the "Slashdot OS X Typo" award.
You see, in every Apple article on Slashdot, someone always makes a typo when writing three simple letters: OS X. Scientists are divided as to why it's so difficult for Slashdotters to correctly spell this very simple combination of letters (pronounced "Oh Ess Ten," the tenth version of Mac OS).
Common typo variations are:
1.) OS-X
2.) OS/X
3.) OSx
4.) OSX
5.) OSX86
Related typos include:
6.) MAC (instead of Mac)
Yours, sir, is the first insane typo of many in the comments to come when it comes to typing three simple letters: OS X. Be grateful in your glorious splendor! You are a scholar and a gentleman. Good day.
"Sufferin' succotash."
"Can you feel the love tonight"o ufeelthelovetonight.htm
/.ers cooing about it and throwing a couple of jabs at Linux and Macs as well.
http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/classicdisney/cany
While I agree that there are more Mac users, (I converted my neighbor)I think this is writing for eyeballs at best. The writer has wisely weaved together hot-topics to sell his story.
Right now and until there is a release to stores on MS's Longwait, there will be plenty of extra Macs sold. In fact, it will likely BE the second-coming of the apple desktop.
Once the available for retail date gets close on Longwait it all goes quiet and MS collects on their monopoly. Cha-Ching! The the media onslaught will include
Right now, Apple is getting some desktop face-time. Enjoy it while it lasts. Sad too, because the mac is superior in so many ways.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
Actually, it uses the Mach kernel with FreeBSD userland tools. It has its own abstraction layer called IOKit for device drivers and its own window server called Quartz. So no, it doesn't have a BSD kernel, it doesn't use BSD drivers, and it doesn't use X11 for its "pretty interface." It's not "BSD" any more than Windows is "BSD" due it including a BSD-licensed network stack. Ask your grandma to buy you one of the new I-MAXES for your birthday, d00d. Maybe you'll learn something.
My malware buddies and I are all swithcing to Mac. Having our computers lockup or blue screeded in the middle of compiling worms was annoying, to say the least. Of course self-infection was problematic too, diagnosing a self-infection versus some bug the machine recieved online was tiresome.
Not any more, We dedicated to the Mac platform, now my PC is just a lonely Guinea pig when not in zombie mode.
Well the first movement of Mac malware will be beyond exponetial - moving from zero to one has that sort of quality.
You could argue that it will happen, or enjoy a computer where it does not happen until it does. Two years for me and counting where I don't even have to think about viruses, Malware or browser exploits. A guy can do a lot of relaxing in two years... and it looks like possibly years more before we see anything substantial (or even perhaps anything at all).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
So what software are you thinking of exactly? Most software lets you crossgrade (like PhotoShop).
And software that doesn't let you convert either is replaced with software that ships free with consumer Macs (like iLife with iPhoto and iTunes and iMovie), or is easily replaced by other low cost or free Mac versions.
What software to casual computers have that would prevetn a switch? It's not like the whole world is running AutoCAD.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I bought a Mac Mini because it was a cheap way to get a debugging machine for my web app. That was solely to see how it looks in a Mac browser. I still rely on Windows for everything else. I hope they didn't count me.
As I sit here in my office, I am typing in Suse Linux. I have three Linux desktop machines also in the office and an old laptop running Windows 2k. However, I am listening to the iPod my brother gave me as a birthday gift. Does this mean I have been 'converted'? Does this mean that if I buy a cake at the Baptist bake sale, I become a Baptist too? Don't they call this 'slamming' when the phone companies do it? We should be told! ;)
It makes a lot of sense, or maybe it doesn't. I really don't know. All I know is that I keep going to Apple's store to buy an iPod Nano and I end up with a $5000 Mac in my shopping cart. I really don't know how that keeps happening! :)
Needless to say the price tag keeps waking me up and I never quite get around to placing the order. Maybe if it weren't for that insane desire to pair a MAC with the NANO I would have already purchased an iPod by now.
"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
I bought a Mac Mini a few months ago with the intention of seeing what the Mac was like to use on a daily basis, then maybe switching to an Intel-powered pro-type box when they became available next year.
However, it didn't turn out that way. It's not that I dislike Macs or anything, but I just couldn't find anything useful to do with it. Initially I started by trying to find comparable programs to what I use on the PC. After a while I started finding that although the interface was more useable, the computer as a whole wasn't as I was pining for features I use on PC software.
The net effect was really very odd - a machine I really liked, but that I reluctantly had to give up as it just didn't hit that sweet spot where everything came together for me. Consequently, I've given my Mac Mini to my parents who think it's wonderful and have delved right into digital video, photos and music to my amazement (they're in their 60's). So while I haven't switched, my folks have been, and I guess I have Apple to thank for eventually making them daily users of email, chat and computers in general - heck they even have iPod Shuffles with Buddy Holly and Leo Sayer on...
Zealotry comes later. For now you are a mere convert.
Soon will come the "Quicktime-ning" and once you reach that stage you will begin gaining power from every Windows user you decapitate...
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
Have you had a look at Pages? That may just fit your bill?
If you want to e-mail me, use my PGP Key.
No.
Repetition does not transform a lie into the truth. - FDR
Be it Linux or BSD or SunOS or BeOS or OS/2 or Macs or nothing at all - ANYTHING BUT MICROSOFT!!!
After swearing off of them after buying the 7500/100 around '96ish with the buggy OS 7.5 (?) I can't remember.
p ywareblaster/MicrosoftSpywareBetaSomething routine everytime I came over. Not to mention the mandatory half-year reinstallation when the registry got corrupted or when stubborn unwanted programs wouldn't be uninstalled or initialized and hogged resources at start up.
Anyway Pre-OSX Mac was really dead and starting to smell really bad.
But so is Windows now. The past year, I got my parents to buy 2 Apple notebooks because they don't do anything major and I got sick of the adaware/avg-antivirus/spybot_detect_and_destroy/s
Now, after initial setup is done, I can come over and have 0 computer crap to put up with. Thank god, my peace of mind is worth more than the premium of a pair of stupid notebooks.
There - 2 Mac 'converts' that had nothing to do with the iPod
Blizzard have supported the Mac long before WoW, that hasn't changed. Game support for Mac is still crummy on the whole, that hasn't changed either. In fact, WoW is one of a remarkably small minority of MMOGs that run on the Mac. I can might near count them on one hand.
SWG? No. . . EQ2? No. . .
Does anyone remember when Bungie was first and foremost a Mac developer? We were all talking about how Halo was going to sell Macs. So much for that plan.
Does anyone remember when Connectix Virtual Gamestation was going to make the Mac an attractive gaming platform, because it could run most Playstation games? Then Sony bought CVGS from Connectix and buried it.
I understand Civilization 4 and Call of Duty 2 were recently released for the PC. How many months will it be before they appear on Macintosh? How many features (like editors) will be left out of the Mac version, while we still have to pay full price?
So . . . I really don't see any upswing in Mac game development, much as I might wish for it. Computer gaming still completely revolves around Microsoft (and DirectX), Macs aren't on the radar screen of most game companies -- and if the Mac platform does accidentally get something good, there are always entities like Microsoft and Sony standing ready to buy and/or bury it.
I'm really not trying to rip on the Mac here at all. I'm just being realistic and telling what experience has shown. Games are the one big area where the Mac is weak, and I don't see anything in the works to change it. Apple could do some things to change it, but gaming just isn't in their corporate DNA.
(1) No he doesn't, look closer.
(2) So what?
99 windows users; get a virus, infect a machine...
98 windows users on the wall!
(My regards to user Rei (128717) for the original idea)
This was also my reason for trying out OSX! Although, the OSX "experience"/interface is my reason for switching to linux. Unlike 3 years ago, Linux feels like the most user-friendly OS to me. While I would not tell someone not to switch to Apple, I'd probably reccomend Linux first, then OSX, then Windows.
While Microsoft is very efficiently locking in all of its users to their software, OSX by default locks users into specific hardware. Why people still enjoy being locked into hardware and software is beyond me, but my guess is, the second Adobe targets the linux market is the second we see a slashdot post about Windows and OSX users switching to linux.
I also must admit the other factors to my switching from OSX to linux:
we'll also throw in the fact that I love OpenOffice.org 2.0 and couldn't get it to run, and while all the OS animations ran super-smooth, I could finish a 20 word sentence before word 10 was displayed on the screen as I typed.... so the imagined speed of these things were definitely based on the fact that the OS runs super smooth even on slow hardware, giving the impression of speed.... kind of like racing stripes on a slow car.
"Now the trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed." -C.S. Lewis
750,000 of the 1 million have switched back.
What I'd like to know is:
a) What hardware and version of windows are they converting from (a new new XP box 'o' bugs or an old piece of legacy hardware with win98)
b) What environment are they coming from: Business or home?
c) How many own iPods etc (how much has the new trend fueled an overall desire for apple products)
This comment is pasted into every Apple thread. Old joke, move along.
ould someone please tell Apple to fund the development of a real competitor to Office? One called OpenOffice.org is a prime candidate, but they need help.
Well, if all you're looking for is the word processor component, they already made Pages.app.
I hate noisy computers. I've spent a lot on making my PC quiet, but still it wouldn't let me sleep in same room with PC downloading overnight (no, not because of nightmares about RIAA/MPAA). Mac Mini is really whisper quiet and not much more expensive than Wintel box with passive PSU, etc.
I do tech support for my school, and a senior was having a problem where if she accessed files off of our network server, whenever she saved word would crash and she lost the file. It turned out that the problem was just a loose network cable, and office 2001 or whatever was just deciding to crash when it couldn't find the network connection. Out of nowhere she says while we are working on her computer "I heard that Apples are a lot better - is that true?" and I told her that it was true but that Dell had better warrantees, and if she was going to buy a new computer and would be graduating soon and not have access to our campus tech support than she might be better off going with Dell. I did however confirm that Macs don't have spyware/adware/virus problems, usually I'm a rabid apple fan-boy but I was genuinely worried that applecare would treat her like crap, so I didn't play of the Apple aspect at all. Two weeks later she walked in with a brand new iBook and wanted help transferring all her old files over :-).
I have two friends who all throughout high school were ardent PC users. Now they both have Powerbook G4s, saying it was the best laptop on the market.
It is incredible to me that the company that people were saying was going to go bankrupt is now doing so well. I credit OS X, the iPod, and apple hardware engineering. Oh yeah, and steve jobs!
NetBSD.
People have been laying out book length writings in TeX for a long time now. If you're doing more than "report writing", why don't you spend a few minutes (or hours dependingo on how fancy) learning TeX and writing some macros for it to do what you want?
So what does it mean then when you can switch between Linux, Windows and a Mac easily and understand them all?
I did Physics at Imperial College, London. Imperial is a part of the Royal College of Science, and, depending on what degree(s) you take, you get various letters to append to your name when you pass your BSc, MSc, PhD etc...
....
I have a Diploma of Imperial College and I'm an Associate of the Royal College of Science
So, I have a DIC and an ARCS
Simon.
Physicists get Hadrons!
It's great to hear that overall Apple is doing good. More users usually means more software. The people that keep saying that it's only a matter of time until malware appears on the platform really need to stop. OS 10, is far more secure than Windows will ever be due to it's BSD-like underpinnings. It has nothing to do with the ammount of users for the platform, think of it this way, if someone came out with a Mac virus tommorow, they would get the same attention, and same press, then if they did it years from now, so if it was going to happen, I think it would have by now. OS 10 is almost 5 years old, and not a single REAL virus, that spreads through normal means (email, web download etc.) has shown up. Hmm.. it MUST be because there aren't enough users... yeah thats right.. (scarcasm).
You're my hero. I'm so sick of hearing clueless Mac zealots calling it BSD with a pretty interface.
put linux on your laptop?
Artists, fashion mavens, leftists, and other creative personalities
Leftists are "creative personalities"? I'm getting a headache just thinking about it...
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
... that 2 million Mac users have converted to Windows this year.
Mwahahahahaha!
Let's not go too far here. Rush Limbaugh is famously an Apple fan.
It still uses a microkernel, UNIX userland and permissions concepts, and has no root access enabled. Pray tell how this is even remotely similar to Windows using a BSD-licensed networking stack.
Mac OS X is a UNIX system as much as Linux is, i.e. in every meaningful way except trademarks.
I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
Actually, it's based off of the Darwin operating system, and uses the XNU kernel, which is based off of both the Mach and a customized version of the FreeBSD kernel.
Nike shoes are so much faster. I will never use Adidas again.
We're all very embarrassed about that and wish he'd just get Windows, so please stop bringing it up.
yes on everythign but the price tag..apples still got to come down more
~~"Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~~Dennis Miller
once the Intel based Macs come out so I can run Windows on them as well, dual-boot. Still can't shake Windows that easily...
'A lie if repeated often enough, becomes the truth.' - Goebbels
Because I have MUCH better things to do than to figure out how to get a screenplay-type format laid out. I wrote my thesis just six months ago with LaTeX, and even that took hours to get the formatting exactly compliant with the thesis clerk's requirements. It was beautiful, to be sure, but I can't spend that kind of time with the sort of output I have to generate all the time.
If you enjoy TeX, you might want to take a look at TeXmacs.
It's a wysiwyg editor.
Powered by Web3.5 RC 2
So the "d00d" that was moded as a 0, Troll was actally right and the smart guy who responded as a smart mouth and moded 4, Insightful was quite wrong? No, way... this is not the slashdot I know.
wow i asked a simple question, and i get such a hateful response. Mac users must be hateful. I don't want to be hateful so I'm never going to use a mac. I'll just tell grandma to keep sending me beer and refer.
au contre, mon frere ...
(nice try, all you apple fanbois mod each other up anyway)
Dell revenues down?
Dell revenue keeps going up.
Apple's keeps going up?
they had a loss two years ago.
Why deal with the truth when you can live in reality distortion field?
Once she knew I had another Office for Mac license, we picked up an iBook the day after we verified the extent of the damage. Never looked back.
But: it wasn't because of the iPod. It's because nobody says "But I have to resurrect my Dell!"
--- The American Way of Life is not a birthright. Hell, it's not even sustainable.
My parents were among those that converted from PC to Mac. I was really impressed with how easily they were able to do so without any problems. The stability of the Mac is dramatically better than a PC and the applications are much better integrated.
I have to admit, after playing around on their iMac, I will probably end up getting one myself. It's so much more elegant than a PC. It didn't take me long to figure out how to get to the shell and poke around the BSD kernel either. I really like the way OSX has things organized. In just an hour or two, I felt completely comfortable navigating the machine and getting it to do what I wanted. I seriously doubt a Mac user could do the same on a PC.
Proprietary hardware zealots. Hey look at this cool G5 that costs 5 grand! I'll take it! Hehehe look at me sticking it to Microsoft.
The human race is artificial intelligence created using object orientated programming.
People don't just throw out one computer to buy another. I recently bought an iBook, but I still have my PC. I use each as much as the other. At home I have my mac set up as dual head and run a remote desktop connectio to my windows box. You can't play games over that, but it's good for those apps you just can't get on windows.
Games are a PC muct have simply because of cost efficiency - I can upgrade my PC much more cheaply, and with more grunt, and there are more games.
However, a Mac is a better onraod vehicle. Their versions of Office is still waiting for windows to catch up, and Photoshop and Indesign are made for it. Plus there is Keynote. Oh God!! KEYNOTE!!!!
I don't think peple are changing so much as becoming continental. People will change later. Now they are testing the water, ipods, cheap minis and so on. We'll see I guess.
Unless you've got horrible RAM-starvation, you're a troll. I run Pages quite well on a Summer 2004 iBook--same model.
...or people that view computers as fashion accessories. Truly different people should be able to look past the marketing and realize that brand loyalty != innovative, self-directed thought. As a matter of fact, I just can't say that defining oneself by the products they buy strikes me as particularly progressive on any level. The new macs seem to be good computers, but I still don't see how they are the most logical choice for artists. Unless you are extremely lucky, most artists tend to have greater cash-flow issues than most, and apples tend towards the pricier end of the spectrum. I know when I left college and was making a go of sound design, I found myself engaged in a lot of accountant-like thinking as I tried to pay rent, afford dry pasta, and keep a build/maintain a professional grade studio. Until art starts paying more than it currently does, it seems to me that artists should be very supportive of a vibrant OSS community.
The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. -Yeats, The Second Coming
Leftists are "creative personalities"? I'm getting a headache just thinking about it...
Yeah, funny that, because I'd always thought they were DEStructive personalities.. you know, anytime you see a riot or violent protest on the news, with car-burning, stone-throwing, smashing up McDonald's restaurants.. it's almost invariably the leftwingers doing it. You know - the "free speech!" "everyone has a right to be heard!" "Violence solves nothing!" crowd. Grrrr.
Wolf also said a larger than expected percentage of Windows to Mac converts appear to be purchasing Apple's higher-end systems
Is he suggesting that they are purchasing the higher-end of the Apple spectrum, or is it the usual drivel about all Apple hardware (generally) being "high end"?
I've heard many many many Mac users call their iMacs and iBooks "High-End UNIX Workstations" or "High-End UNIX X-Servers".
do() || do_not();
I'm a brainless moron as well... I buy Macs because they place their products in high profile Hollywood "no-brainer" movies and that's reason enough.
creative destruction (n.) - the process of disruptive transformation that accompanies radical innovation
yeah i'm kinda shocked about that as well... but then i remembered that this is slashdot where asking questions, especially rhetorical ones such as my original post, you are just asking to yelled at for not looking up the answer yourself. Because god forbid that one try and engage a community of experts in a an open and honest forum to further ones own personal knowledge that he/she may one day give back to said forum. Silly me to forget that Slashdot forums are for the statements of ... well ... what ever they are. It is this very reason why this community will never be taken seriously, and therefore never have the significant impact upon the world they so desperately desire. But than again, this is just my opinion, i could be wrong.
Perhaps you might try running it on something other than your IIvx. (Still bitter?)
Pages works nicely on my 800mhz Powerbook, circa 2002. It gets a little poky when I include lots of big images, but on text it's plenty fast.
Windows convert you!
I'd love to be one of the Mac converts, however it seems Apple completely ignores everywhere beyond Canada, the US and Western Europe. I've been on a waiting list to get a Mini Mac for over 4 months ... and this is includes a 40% higher price...
Gamblers Forum
I switched to a Mac in June of 2004, and switched back in June of 2005. The interface was nice enough, but too mouse-centric for me. The key combinations necessary for simple day-to-day operation were too complex and finger-twisting. In the end, I decided I needed to work too hard to accomplish a lot of the same things I could do on my Windows machine with ease. I sold my $2800 powerbook and bought a $900 HP and haven't looked back...
Which is more painful? Going to work or gouging your eye out with a spoon? Find out!
http://www.workorspoon.com
People in my group at work (I sign the requisitions) can have whatever laptop they want. Increasingly, they are going with a Mac so they don't have to dual-boot Windows and Linux. BSD Unix + MS Office is the killer combination.
yes but what about us clueless Mac, not necessarily Zealots, more like interested party, types?
yeah, you'd think, except that apple's design philosophy appeals to artists/designers/visual/lateral thinkers, whereas OSS fucking sucks when it comes to that kind of goodness. sorry, but it's the truth.
Odd,
never had any issues with it on either my Powerbook or Powermac.....
I heard though it likes memory.
If you want to e-mail me, use my PGP Key.
...it's iPod fit and finish and "sex appeal"
I succumbed to 20 years of mac envy and sprung for a new 15" Powerbook and 12" iBook for my college-aged daughter. I'm delighted and not looking back to Winblows and my many crappy employer-provided plastic boxen...
But why the switch now? It isn't just OS X and better hardware/software. It's because I bought an iPod last year and could see how an electronic device could be nicely made and aesthetically pleasing (as well as just works).
And Apple/iPod is selling "sex", customer experience, the sizzle along with the steak.
Remember "killer apps"? Is it easier to get people excited about some corporate "workgroup" crapware like Microsoft Outlook, or is it easier to get people to relate to personal things like your MUSIC COLLECTION?
Apples are music, movies and fun. Windows is cubicle serf-ware. Which do you think are going to be more appealing to people and get them excited about computing again?
very funny post, where do you find these pics? These have to be staged, or maybe an Apple attempt at 'viral' marketing or some other insidious plan to win over alt-geeks
I don't hate Microsoft nor Apple. You need to eat just like me. I just HATE proprietary and closed systems that force the consumer to be dominated by a particular company. Trading one disease for another will not solve the problem.
Boo to Windows and boo to the Mac OS too. Long live Linux and any OS or software that allows consumers the ability to know exactly what they are putting on their computers and gives them the flexibility to alter it in any way they feel fit. It will encourage honesty and community--- not breed uncertainty, paranoia and indefinite bickering in a world that hardly needs more of it.
As Aristotle said once--A is A. Freedom is freedom. Using scare tactics and nonsense ethical arguments to convince politicians into creating draconian regulations that threaten our freedoms is irrational, immoral and ultimately destructive. Keeping consumers prisoners of products is detrimental to the needs of our society and even to the needs of corporations. The only winners will be some lawyers who are laughing at all of us-- all the way to the bank.
This isn't about being against big business as some companies are seeing the light that the new economy involves speed to market, integration with other products, services and alternate business models---not using the government like a thug to have your way.
So Apple if you want us to take you seriously-- open source your OS and sell us a gajilion Macs, Ipods and whatever cool products you can think of. I'll buy one then and be a faithful customer if you bind your corporate philosophy to the mantra of free and open software.
Software is not a product. It is the expression of logic and free speech on a microchip. To rob us of this freedom in the information age is a monumental blunder that will cause everyone to suffer.
~ A is A
Btw- if anyone agrees with this position please amend a yea to this post.
http://ipods.freepay.com/?r=13057664
Pages is not a word processor. It's a simplified page layout program. Writing anything longer than a page is painful.
My Blog Sucks.
So your problem is Pages is too slow? I've certainly not seen that and my processor isn't any/much faster than yours (iMac G4 1.42 GHz). I use Pages for all of my text editing. It has a few little problems but overall it's great. I can't think of any reason why it would run so slowly on your computer, except for very low RAM. I haven't noticed it being slow even on my 400 MHz iBook G3 clamshell with 384 RAM. Also, openoffice is coming out with a native cocoa version. It won't be slow like X11 or Neooffice and it will have a nicer interface (hopefully).
Stupidity is like nuclear power, it can be used for good or evil. And you don't want to get any on you.
"According to checks with Apple Store Specialists, Wolf also said a larger than expected percentage of Windows to Mac converts appear to be purchasing Apple's higher-end systems and that their transition is fueled by the epidemic of viruses and malware on the Windows platform."
I work at my college's computer help desk, we see ruined windows machines all the time. At my college, at lot of kids are switching because of adware, spyware, malware, viruses, etc. Honestly, people who are relatively computer illiterate really can't seem to use windows without ruining it. I'm not suggesting it's their fault, but it's really gotten so bad that if a person's getting a new computer and they're not really good with computers I always reccomend a Mac to them.
Not only that, but it seems to be getting harder and harder to fix windows XP machines these days. A year and a half ago, it seemed just a few scans would fix them right up, now we're reformatting many machines simply because it's much easier and much quicker than try to fix them.
What was the cost different to get a comparable Apple laptop. What do you value your free time at... for me its a lot, because I don't have much... Given the choice between an extra $200 for the machine (and generally, Dell charges the same as Apple for the same machine, but Apple only has limited options, so you buy more machine... i.e. to upgrade the screen, you get a processor upgrade, that kinda thing), and a few hours of tinkering, I reach for my Amex...
It all depends if you'd rather have two-four hours for yourself or a little cash in your pocket...
My point on the Apple vs. Dell... any time I took an Apple machine, then went to Dell and priced an "equivalent" purchase, the price was +/- $50... however, if you start with the Dell, and then price out the equivalent Apple, it is usually a bit more... but you get stuff you may not need, but that is because Apple has limited models...
The Mac Mini is a GREAT office desktop (we have 8, probably going to get 4-5 more)... and its dirt cheap... Once you price out the equivalent Dell and add in XP Pro (home is worthless for a business workstation), and a few other minor upgrades, the mini tends to be $25-$50 less, which is a great deal.
``I just wonder what the tipping point will be before we start seeing an exponential rise in Mac malware.''
Maybe it won't happen. Maybe not enough people will switch to Mac to make it an attractive target. Maybe the fact that the Mac comes with no services running by default, a mail client that filters spam (and probably malware, too), a browser that isn't also a file manager and desktop and everything, etc. just makes it not worthwhile to attack Macs.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Oh wait, that is like four of us. Never mind.
Apple's desktops aren't. i.e. quad core G5 w/ 16 gigs of ram running 2x30inch Apple Cinema Displays. That's hardly comparable to a middle range PC. I'll admit the price isn't comparable either though.
Stupidity is like nuclear power, it can be used for good or evil. And you don't want to get any on you.
At first I was thinking 1M sounded optimistic. But OTOH, I think I could see that. I'm a convert this year, I bought myself a Mac Mini. And I've been actively encourating extended family (of the non technical variety) to consider switching. I've been fairly to the point about how I feel about fixing their Windows machines repeatedly from various malware infections, and suggesting to them that they'd be happier with something that didn't constantly get compromised. It's working ;). So if any other techies like myself are doing the same in their own families, then 1M might be fairly accurate.
Well, here's the problem. Mac OS X, and in fact the entire Apple experience, is intuitive for a certain kind of person. Artists, fashion mavens, leftists, and other creative personalities can sit down with a 12-inch PowerBook running the iLife suite on Tiger and comprehend its sensitive, tasteful aesthetic. It's a rare instinct, this appreciation for beauty and truth; accountants and other such pencil-pushers haven't a prayer.
In summary, unattractive squares should stick to Linux and Windows. Macs are for different thinkers.
I used to own a Mac, but I got too many girls pregnant and caught herpes, so I switched back to Linux.
#!/
This number comes from the number of people who have set foot in an apple retail store, because it is INCONCIEVABLE for them to have entered and not purchased a Mac. Ahh, I love the reality distortion field.
I love those pictures every time I see them.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
I have several Macs and several Linux machines (plus, grudginly, a Windows machine). I wish, however, Apple and Apple proponents would stop marketing Macintosh by putting down Linux. Macintosh is a good alternative alternative to Windows: it runs desktop applications well and is fairly easy to use and administer compared to Windows. But Macintosh is not a replacement for a Linux machine, and I'm also concerned about Apple's long-term direction in terms of their underlying technology.
For the personal user (not corporate) Windows is perfectly secure as long as you know what you're doing and don't act like a dumb-ass. I guess some people just cant handle the minimal amount of work involved in staying secure...
Is the number of Mac users who have switched to Windows, Linux, or BSD in the same time period. Since Intel or AMD based machines are considerable cheaper, there may be a significant number of Apple users who switch when it is time to replace. Or not, but the article certainly ignores that.
/. with your back button, at least in Firefox.
Also, for those rare types who read TFA, this is one of those nice sites that doesn't let you return to
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
Not intended as a flame, but I just don't regard Linux as mature enough on the desktop for me to go that route. I've spent a lot of time on various UNIX environments over the years, and they usually consume too much overhead for hacking, and these days I just want to get my work done.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
Ok, you may have to go back to the very beginning of this blog , but in his early case files he is clearly a linux user. He talks about using Kpresent, KDE, and Gentoo Linux a lot. Then almost without explanation, he has a powerbook running OS X! I was surprised though because I didn't think there were a lot of forensic tools for OS X but I guess he is just compiling the linux ones using fink and X11? Anybody? SecurityMonkey if you're reading this please comment?
due to my recommendation in the last year, including my wife. The difficulty each of those people saw with using Windows and keeping it working deterred them from buying their own PC. For all 3 of them, the iBooks are a literal dream, with only the normal learning curve resulting in some study of training books and DVDs. It has also been almost totally painless for me, as I don't have any significant support to deal with on these machines.
What about the number of times Ubuntu has been downloaded by Windows users? I am very sure it is more than just 1 million (You cannot BUY Ubuntu)
MacOSX and BSD do share much of their userland applications. All the little apps typically associated with BSD are also in MacOSX. The actuall difference is in the kernel. MacOSX does not use a BSD kernel - they use a modified MACH microkernel. So in your analagy, it's really the cellar that differentiates the two.
One thing to note about OSX - the kernel was designed to provide maximum performance and as such, moves much of what should be outside the kernel into the kernel. The result is a faster OS that is better suited for desktop and workstation usage. But it's no BSD. Maybe in time it will prove to be just as reliable but for now and the near future it really can't touch OSes like Solaris or AIX when it comes to servers. But personally, I'm just fine with that - it's a good compromise.
Willy
Actually, the OS X kernel is a custom hybrid of a mach kernel and the BSD kernel. The BSD stuff is definitely *far* more than just userland tools; the only thing that's really mach is central interior of the kernel; BSD's kernel then sits on top of that.
Stop trying to insult people, verify your facts, and maybe *you'll* learn something.
The ringing of the division bell has begun... -PF
3 months after I got an iPod (3G 15 GB) I bought an iMac G5 because I became an Apple Fanboy. 4 months after the iMac purchase I bought a 12" Powerbook. Once my wife's Compaq laptop takes a dive I hope I can talk her into an Intel iBook and stop worrying about yearly NAV purchases...
If only I had mod points right now, I'd so mod you up and the grandparent down. It just goes to show you, views on Slashdot are moderated based on the strength of their conviction, not based on actual FACTS. It's very well known that OS X is based on ther FreeBSD kernel, it's gotta suck when even the "lesser" lay people than an alleged know-it-all.
Okay, let's see...
There's AbiWord. I wasn't real impressed, but you could try that out. Also check out Mariner Write, Z-Write, and, of course, NisusWriter. You might also check out ThinkFree Office.
Try checking out the Macintosh Products Guide for more information.
I dunno, I think I'd take the goofy-looking Linux guys in your picture over the tattooed artsy-fartsy Mac users. At least the Linux guys probably don't have hepatitis...
Just "gittin-r-done," day after day.
The main advantage on Macintosh is that OpenGL, wireless, and other built-in devices generally work on Apple hardware. But the same is true for Linux if you actually buy Linux from Linux hardware vendor.
For third party hardware, I don't see much of a difference. And don't talk to me about Epson scanners on OS X; I think they have gotten better by now, but they used to be a huge pain.
You know, maybe the title of this Article should be
Microsoft to
Apple
Conversion
Shots: A Populist Parable
Because the "Alpha System Specialist" are....
well not so much in demand..
A friends job had that put on his name plaque on his cube..
Rush Limbaugh is a fashion maven.
...they finally got a real OS. Also, the mini-me --- I got one at work at the end of last year and so could use the environment both at home and at work. Though I still need a windoze box in both places. For fewer and fewer reasons fortunately...
It's definitely not the ipod though, for me: I thought the thing was horribly unintuitive the one time I played with one and like my Rio Cali much better, save for it not looking like a USB flash drive when you plug it in. It requires some proprietary linkage software, probably related to supporting Digital noRights Management. That's a minor nuisance, since I refuse to buy anything that has restrictions on what I can do with it anyhow, but if I'd known it ahead of time, I probably would have gotten something else. The Oregon Scientific MP120 I have for use while swimming looks like a flash drive, but its UI leaves something to be desired too. Oh well, I've probably digressed too far by now...
I'd say that you are in a "geek circle" and so you find it hard to find people without multiple OSs.
Most people I know would have just one or more windows machines.
Running a Mac is great so long as nothing goes wrong. If or when something does go foobar, total vendor lock-in on both hardware and software can spell hell. I had a really bad experience of this with Apple a few years ago afer running Macs for more than a decade and I won't be using them again. Yes, Apple have a great OS and some nice machines, no question. But there is too high a ticket attached to it all for me. Once you've handed over the cash, they have you by the balls and the fantasies of California cool are replaced by the harsh realities of dealing with a baboon in warranty repairs and hanging around entirely at their leisure.
Windows may be a nightmare but at least you're not tied down with the hardware. And with Linux, if your needs are fairly simple, you can avoid the worst of the OS nightmares anyway. Quite a few comments on this thread suggest that a lot of folks are beginning to lose patience with the prospects of desktop Linux, though, so perhaps the opportunities for desktop Linux to get a hold on the market are closing down scarily fast.
Las qué passoun
tournoun pas maï
Once you go Mac, you don't go back.
People who already own Macs are not going to cry about price, they know what they're getting for their money and gladly pay it.
Must have been because of this quote.... :-)
I don't have too much insightful or informative to say
Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
As a 10 year DOS/Windows user, with 8 years in I.T. I recently made the switch myself. I'd hated Apple's for years, but once they decided to build their OS on freeBSD technology I couldn't help myself. Frankly, I love it. Like another person mentioned before, I used to spend hours on Putty. Now I just drop down to a terminal and have fun. I really wish Apple would just release their OS to more directly compete with Windows. As a user of both platforms I can honestly say that I think OS X would win hands down.
Is this like the In Soviet Russia... jokes? I think I saw this same exact post the other day.
I think it's time for all of the Mac users used to niché platforms to switch to Linux. Mac OS X is so pop.
From what I have read on slashdot
Windows = Straight
Apple = Gay
Linux = Asexual
All of the Above = Bi Sexual
... will I be forced to purchase legit software for it?
I use several apps worth several hundred dollars each on my Windows machine simply because I can't afford to buy them (and, according to your point of view, because I'm a lowdown criminal).
How much 'software-without-a-retail-box', to put it nicely, is available to Macs?
A buddy of mine today asked me to help him out with getting a Mac laptop.
It's hardly surprising, the last shop we both worked in (embedded real time networking startup) there were about 30 employees and about 10 had Macs.
He's a Unix geek, just like me.
He also wants it to "just work".
I like linux, but you really do have to tinker with it to get what you want on a laptop. That's OK for me, I like the tinkering, but I do that on a non-primary machine and I fiddle with everything from the kernel source to the WiFi drivers.
My primary machine is a 15" PowerBook and can usually be found building embedded linux code with the cross compilers I built from source... what's not to like ?
look at the long term
Why do asshole posts like the one above get modded up?
I'm asking the same question right now !
When I think of leftists I think of those Berkeley radicals handing out pamphlets by Marx and sincerely believing in a socialist utopia where the state will indeed wither away and everyone will drink pink lemonade in the union halls. While they definitely have a surplus of imagination, I don't generally regard them as "creative". Once you've gone far enough past liberals and progressives to actually be labelled "leftist", you've long since lost the ability to be creative.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
...if it weren't for the cost. Honestly, that is the one thing which is preventing me from making the switch. At the present time, I am running GNU/Linux.
That's almost laughable. I'm an independent IT consultant, and I'd like to personally thank Dell for their pricing strategy: slap together a box with 256 MB of RAM and Windows XP, advertise in flyers showing said system along side a 15" LCD for $499, profit!!
The scenario goes down something like this. Customer receives Dell, is confounded by how slow it is, and is pissed that they received a CRT, not the flat panel pictured (a la asterisk "for just $179 more..."). Customer calls me, I come out and explain that 256 MB of RAM is no way to run Windows XP, show them the task manager with pagefile usage of 415 MB, they do the math (415 MB > 256 MB). Customer pays me $75/hr to install marked up RAM and a flat panel monitor since they won't talk to Dell anymore.
Michael Dell, we salute you!
PS - Posted from my 20" iMac.
seriously. Windows and OSX just work because they came with the hardware when you bought it.
the Oz price include VAT? I would think that would make up most of the difference.
I think our iPod's helped real me in a bit to the Mac style. We now have 4: 2 40 gig 3rd gen, 1 60 gig Photo, and 1 Nano 4 gig. Using the devices made me look more at Macs. I broke down and actually bought a 15" Powerbook which I now use daily in place of my aging T-22. Granted, now is probably NOT the best time to get a notebook with Apple switching to Intel and dual cores on the horizon but I was at a point where that 'ol 1 GHz P3 was feeling a tad sluggish...no, a LOT sluggish, esp with the 512 meg RAM cap.
Anyhow, I'll probably remain a PC user as well for gaming but I am keeping a close eye on Apple and will probably be a 50/50 Mac user.
Uh, Darwin is Apple's own stuff. They even open sourced it themselves. If I remember correctly, it dates back to the NeXT or Copland/Rhapsody days.
think different!
(it feels good to troll a fanboy)
According to checks with Apple Store Specialists, Wolf also said a larger than expected percentage of Windows to Mac converts appear to be purchasing Apple's higher-end systems and that their transition is fueled by the epidemic of viruses and malware on the Windows platform.
Wait, staff at the Apple Store said people find Windows sucks? Surely not!
Next you'll be telling me that Microsoft analysts have noticed that users find Linux has a higher cost of ownership, that Linux fanboys find the exact opposite and that the Bush administration finds most people hate terrorists so much that torture is justified.
Most women find this poster deeply attractive
hmm. compare with liberals (i.e. centre/right of centre, like democrats/republicans, whose ideology is that of capital): liberals are quite boring, they just repeat the cultural status quo (branding, same old family values, etc). or compare with the far right (fascists etc) who are not particularly creative except in producing some extremely deranged culture.
i think you will find, for example, that the quality of cinema and art produced in socialist countries in the 20th century was very high. this is especially true in cuba and the USSR. also there is a very large number of famous highly creative leftists--bertolt brecht, charlie chapman, jack london, etc etc etc.
perhaps something about the ability to question your surroundings and the prevailing norms of the society...
Why didn't you say you were writing a screenplay? There's only one tool for that: Final Draft. Trying to write a screenplay with a word processor is amazingly stupid. No wonder you had a bad experience.
It's quite possibly the single best way to type and manage documents. I started using it on linux, but was overjoyed to find an active OS X port when I bought my iBook (same vintage as yours).
Seriously, though. Give it a try. If you like LaTeX in theory, you'll love LyX in practice.
GJ nubcakes. All 1 million of you are now stupider and "proud" of it. gg
More like:
Windows = Enjoys the Pain: "Beat me Harder, Bill!"
Apple = Reasonable chance of getting what you want, whatever you're into.
Linux = Couldn't get laid with a thousand dollars in Vegas.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I 'switched' this year when I had to replace my PC laptop. I use the laptop pretty much exclusively, we do have a PC in the closet mostly for legacy purposes that we never directly used (one of these days, when I have more 'time', I will turn it into a proper fileserver with a proper OS...). Anyway, I'm typing this entry from my iBook. PowerBooks were a bit outside my price range for a home machine, but the iBook had everything I wanted, including software, and no extras I didn't want to pay for (except maybe bluetooth, but I'd rather have that than not, I just don't use it now). It is both small and light, making it portable (I travel frequently enough to care). The price was excellent for the processor/memory/drives combination, especially when compared to Dell. The Dell competitors were a little less, but I have never been satisfied with the engineering that Dell puts (or doesn't put) into their laptops. The iBook feels much, much more solid.
This is my first Apple, and I used to make a lot of fun of Macs (especially when they came out with all the fruity colors...). But with OS X and the excellent software traditions, this thing really rocks! I'm even enjoying the development tools - which, unlike Visual Studio - come WITH THE OS. Including all the reference material I could ever want. What a joy!
You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We'd all love to see the plan
(The Beatles)
I have been working with PCs for 17 years and I have never had to deal with a virus. The argument that people move to Macs because is a virus-free environment just proves the fact that those switching are lazy, incompetent and conformist, a sad blend of handicapped common sense, self-loathing and kinked vision of what having a computer means. The survival of the fittest starts by taming the environment, no self-rejection from it.
While it isn't correct to say that OS X is just BSD with a pretty face (which among other things trivializes the hard work in user interface design Apple has done), it is also completely incorrect to say that it has only as much BSD in it as Windows does. Let's explore the issue and Apple's stance on it.
The core of OS X, Darwin is built off of the Mach kernal and BSD UNIX (including the BSD kernal) as Apple will tell you themselves:
The Evolution of Darwin
Pay special attention to the section on "DARWIN'S STRUCTURE". Some key points:
"At its foundation is Darwin, which actually contains two layers of its own: the Mach kernel and the BSD subsystem wrapped around it."
And..
"Darwin also incorporates a full implementation of BSD (Berkeley Software Distribution) UNIX, welded on top of the Mach kernel. The hybrid BSD architecture adopted by Darwin embodies its historical association with the BSD code base and underscores both the project's strong relationship with the various BSD organizations and its strong cultural affinity with the open source developer community."
And...
"Darwin wraps a customized version of 4.4 BSD-Lite2 kernel and userspace around Mach. It includes many of the POSIX APIs, exporting them to user-space, and abstracts Darwin's file system and networking. Darwin's BSD also provides the process model, basic security policies, and threading support for Mac OS X."
Ok, so we have a BSD kernal and userspace wrapped around the Mach kernal core. We have "Darwin's BSD" providing the process model, threading and security policies. BSD of course also provided TCP/IP for the OS.
Just a touch more BSD than Windows, I'd say. What does Apple say? Let's see:
"Darwin's Roots
The Darwin team is indebted to a diverse collection of open source projects, including the following:
- Mach, which was originally developed by Project Mach at Carnegie-Mellon University, and later enhanced by the Open Software Foundation (now The Open Group).
- 4.4BSD-Lite2, originated in UC Berkeley's Computer Systems Research Group and developed by a large number of contributors:
* FreeBSD, the primary reference platform for Darwin's BSD kernel development.
* NetBSD, the upstream source for a significant portion of Darwin's user-space commands and tools.
* OpenBSD, with its focus on robustness and security and its integrated cryptography, provides OpenSSH for secure remote access.
- Apache HTTPD, the world's most popular web server, is included as part of the Darwin distribution, making Apple the largest distributor of Apache."
OK, so we have Mach, Apache and 3 flavors of BSD credited - that the Darwin team feels "indebted to". A substantial portion of OS X comes from BSD. Not even Apple refutes that, so why do you?
Sometimes my arms bend back.
Only 300 more years before all of them move over :-)
Darwin is based on FreeBSD.
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
How about Nisus Writer? I'm told that's a great word processor. (You seemed to focus on writing, not spreadsheets, etc.)
You might just google "mac word processor"
Your experience with Pages differs significantly from mine. I can't explain why. I don't think the experience you've described is typical or representative.
Ce n'est pas un vrai mouvement de robot!
Yeah, look at all those leftist tanks, and Flying Fortress bombers, and battleships! Bunch of hippy pinkos!
and here is why:
I wanted unix. I wanted it with a sexy interface. I wanted to run all of my favorite gnu and other open source tools. I wanted the 16:9 screen aspect ratio (wide screens rock!).
Linux was the only alternative to Windows for me for a long time (since early 1998). There were no developer tools on Windows, and programming languages/developer tools (such as C and a compiler) are what attracted me to me computers in the first place. What good is a computer if you can't play with it? (I later found about about FreeBSD and OpenBSD but due to lack of drivers, OpenBSD was the only one I gave serious consideration to (because of its attitude towards correctness and security).)
Windows tried to hide things from me so that other people could control my computer more than I could. My only regret with Apple is that they try to control my experience too much... but I have a fully functional CLI, so I can overlook their over-protective control freakishness. Ultimately, I still run Linux, Windows, and MacOSX, but I find myself using MacOSX the most (except for gaming!). I suppose my use of Linux on the desktop will continue declining as I get more acclimated to MacOSX, but giving up Linux is really tough. I love having absolute and total control over every aspect of my system.
strike
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
Almost perfect. There is a marked difference: if Apple had Microsoft's position, there would be no Gates Foundation equivalent; you would _have_ to get your hardware from iSteve at substantially more than you do now, and you can bet TheChosenOS(TM) would be more expensive too. As such Linux would be further along, because it would have had to be. Can you imagine what iSteve's ego would be like if you couldn't slap him down with "only ignorant people like your FisherPrice toys"? Probably like Ol Larry d'Oracle but with ego and turtle neck.
perhaps something about the ability to question your surroundings and the prevailing norms of the society...
Of course! My (unspoken) point was that most modern "leftists" are so beyond the norms of society that they have ceased to be able to question it beyond instinctive and reactionary oppositionalism.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
I knew you were thinking of Adobe products.
The answer is to call them up, and if you have a valid licence they will let you transfer it to a Mac version free of charge.
Now it is true that you cannot maintain that licence for the Windows version, in theory you are supposed to stop using it. I don't know if the product activation would disable it or what.
Here in fact is a webpage on crossgrading and phone numbers to call - for Adobe, Macromedia, and Microsoft.
I'm not sure why you maintained this myth even though I had given you the term "crossgrade" that would have brought up the right result in Google as I just did to get that link.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I wish the iPod craze and rush of Windows security problems hadn't overlapped. That way we might have been able to figure out which one contributed more ;-)
Well, to everyone who says I'm a troll, I have no response but to say my experience is not unique. In trying to find a solution to the problem, I checked out the Apple support forums. A number of people there report the same thing. It's just a dog. My iBook is the 1.1 GHz model from September 2004, with 768 MB of RAM, Finder and Mail being the only other programs running. I have Tiger installed (10.4.3). Pages just doesn't work.
Watch Blade Trinity! Macs are the choice computers of vampire hunters! That's why I use mine.
Not exactly a screenplay, but rather a liturgical service book. Publisher has no problems with it. Openoffice.org has had no problems with it. NeoOffice/J is too slow for real use, Word doesn't do as well as Openoffice.org does, and Publisher isn't available on the Mac.
Final Draft is worth a look. However, the people I'd like to exchange this document with don't have such a program.
Its multithreading performance is appalling, and has always been appalling, right since the first release. Sure, you may think this is unimportant on the desktop--for now. But wait till multicore processors start shipping big-time...
Once you go Mac, you never go back?
As a digital artist I will have to disagree. The Apple interface is horrific for power users who open lots of windows simultaneously and enjoy a powerful simple interface. Windows offers me the stability and speed that Apple simply hasn't been able to offer me.
Maybe back in the dark ages of Windows 98 the story was different, but I can't imagine working on any other OS at this point.
I switched back in August, and all I can say is that there should be class action lawsuits against MS over their poorly design, easy to exploit, "OS".
;-)
Oh yeah, I almost forgot the obligatory Mac Zealot chant...
THE STREETS WILL FLOW WITH THE BLOOD OF THE NON-BELIEVERS.
you know, it is only 5 years after the internet bubble burst. don't go forgetting about that great example of how revenues are not linked to stock prices already. I can't handle another run up and crash.
Anyways, none of you are being honest about the situation. Yes, apple has had growing revenues over the last few years which have really helped it grow its stock price. But the major run up in prices has nothing to do with the Personal computer market that the arguments seem to center on. almost every analyst attributes the run-up to record profits due mainly to the Ipod, not sales of computers. It has seen over the last two years an increase from 6.2 to 13.9 billion in revenue.
Needed in any honest discussion is where apple is coming from. 4 years ago they posted a net loss. Since then, they have seen incredible earnings grown, especially in the past year(from 276 million to 1.335 billion).
Dell has increased it's revenues from 35 to 49 billion in just 2 years. That is phenomenal growth for a company of its type and size. unlike apple, it does not try to sell goods that are priced at an incredible premium based on name and popularity. It also is not riding a wave of a new comsumer product so it has not seen a windfall in profits(and it probably never will). It sits at just over 3 billion in earnings.
Yes, the ggp was incredibly dishonest trying to say apple is dying and is frankly, an idiot. Every analyst in the world thinks they are looking at financial health for a long while to come.
Of course, I claim this analyst is an idiot. He gives these headline predictions assuming all macs that are selling this year beyond last year are windows converts. He is completely ignoring the highly probably activity of many mac users of holding off on mac purchases in expectance of the G5 and lower prices for it. This would imply that many users would not buy last year and buy this year to get access to a modern CPU.
Now, I'm not arguing there weren't a lot of windows to mac switches, but this analyst lacks a basic control over logic.
because this is certainly better than this
Sigh. This does not mean the times are a' changing. I didn't see any mention of how many Mac users bought Windows this year.
*cough* From the actual person who supposedly has an iPod (yes, I know him), "yes, that'd be a camera, this was 2000."
that "guy" being me, I can tell you that it ain't an ipod, it was a canon digital camera, this was february 2000, I'm not sure, but I don't think they'd come out with the ipod yet at that stage
After all that hype about Firefox, only 7.6% of the userbase applies it. Apple's fanatical fanbase loves to make up numbers like 1 million and claim it as fact, just like the G3 is faster than the P4, etc.
exponentiation ezine
Indeed, that's what my "mission" with LinuxPPC was. To fill in the many people who don't know what I'm talking about, I was the #2 in a cool software startup that made a version of Linux for the Mac and other PowerPC hardware. I had been using UNIX since 1995, which definitely makes me a newbie, and I had a dream of merging the power of UNIX, shell and all, with the ease of the Mac. As it turned out, a few years later I met this guy who was doing Linux development on nothing other than the Mac and PPC hardware. We got to talking, and I wound up helping him launch LinuxPPC Relase 4, the most acclaimed release of Linux for the Mac to date.
Over time, we did a lot of great things, including:
- First bootable CD
- first "live" CD
- First graphical OS installer
- First distribution with booting from Mac OS, and later native booting
- Sponsorship of two Mac OS emulation projects
- crack.linuxppc.org in response to Microsoft's server security challenge
- and free parties in San Francisco, some of which we didn't even attend!
Of course, lairs and life intervened... I'd say that we got UNIX perhaps 40-60% of the way melded to the Mac, but it would have taken far more effort than we would have been able to do to take it the final 40-60% of the way to true integration. Fortunately, Steve Jobs, with his millions of dollars and thousands of paid programmers could take it the final 40%. Hats off to that.
-- haaz.
Oh, I see now. You're not writing a screenplay. You're just really bad at desktop publishing. That's cool.
Kind of ironic that a man of the cloth would be so judgmental. Doesn't the Bible say "Judge not, lest ye be judged?"
Well, I judge you an idiot. So there we are.
Aren't all Mac buyers converts? Only a small percentage of people who buy a Mac are going to be non-Windows OS users...so doesn't it go without saying that if you have bought a Mac that you are probably switching from Windows?
I would like to add that one of the key strenghts of OS X is that many OSS works flawlessly on OS X. Native OSS software and OS X make a powerful combination. For everything else, there is Fink.
My fiancee works in a small 3D animation studio based in Blender for OS X, all the animators are extremely happy with their Macs, all of them planing to buy one for home. The workstations / render machines are all Mac minis. Why not whiteboxes? Because the Mac Mini has an small footprint and very low power consumption, they don't need a big place, a huge UPS or air conditioning.
Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
PCSX
Works well, last time I checked...
I actually don't feel that much weakness with Mac gaming (other than the occasional Half-Life 2 class game), then again, I play a lot of WoW and Desert Combat, both of which are excellent and fun games (the latter actually a high-quality mod of Battlefield 1942) with lots of replayability, so I suppose that's all I need.
I was very frustrated at the incidents you cite, though. The Halo one was just awful.
Adblock for Safari (but better): Pithhelmet
DVD Player complaining about regions: Set your drive's region to the region you live in, and it should mostly never ask you that again
Package management: DarwinPorts
"I like systems, their application excepted", George Sand (French)
On the flip side, PC gaming's been on a rapid decline ever since the most recent generation of consoles.
Declining? I guess you haven't heard of The Sims, Counter-Strike, or World of Warcraft then.
If you think that the only kind of game worth buying is a sequel to an RTS, FPS or MMORPG, then you probably haven't noticed.
What, as opposed to Final Fantasy XXXXVIII? Or the 30th edition of Madden Football?
I know I'm going to get killed for this comment, but it has to be said.
Macs are easy, and currently not affected by much of what plagues windows. But I fear that Apple is growing a group of computer idiots for users. I don't mean you guys on slashdot there are plenty of brilliant people who use macs because of the BSD underpinnings. I mean the userswho can't handle Windows maintenance so we advise them to use a mac. So the people capable of maintaining up-to-date security patches and whatnot with Windows stay with Windows, those who can't switch. Because of this growing trend I think there is going to be some major problems in a few years for them (once their market share hits critical mass).
What happens when someone releases a worm like the sasser on a mac? (If you think it can't happen, you really must have the wool pulled over your eyes). All these macs aren't running firewalls, no one uses a virus scanner et cetera. Basically Apple (or people like myself encouraging others to switch to a mac) is encouraging bad behaviour. See what I mean? Safety comes from good computing practices regardless of what OS you run. I run a firewall and virus scanner, and I am on Debian.
As a disclaimer I do love macs, I use them all the time at work but nonetheless I worry about the users mac is attracting.
... and I would drive a Bentley, if it weren't for the cost. Pah.
Either you have the money but buying a Mac isn't worth it to you, or you haven't, in which case "I would buy a Mac" is hardly relevant. In the former case your reasons for it not being worthwhile would be more interesting here.
So, which is it?
From OpenOffice.org:
"October 29, 2004: OpenOffice.org 2.0 Aqua port slows. With lack of a dedicated X11 team, 2.0 doesn't even compile "out of the box" for X11, and Cocoa development has slowed as well. The only current Mac OS X non-X11 development is the NeoOffice/J [neooffice.org] fork of OpenOffice.org 1.1.2, which is all the time I (Ed) have for myself. We desperately need your help! Go checkout 680 and help Eric Bachard, Eric H., and all the other Mac OS X diehards port it today! Check out the mailing list archives for the most recent 411."
OpenOffice 1.x on X11 is nice enough, although I had trouble when trying to run it on user accounts other than my main one. NeoOffice/J is good, if slow to start. However, the OpenOffice Cocoa port is vapourware, so best not to get your hopes up just yet.
forgive my ignorance, but is there a way to boot the UI after you login like this, or do you have to logout and log back in to do so?
I don't suppose this upswing in market share could be because Apple are building an empire of great looking stores in good locations with a Pro-Apple mentality could it?
It is not a surprise that Windows users switch to Mac: they have nearly the same applications available without the headaches from Windows. Not that windows is unusable, but if you consider that you have to run a virus checker all time slowing down everything you do is clearly an issue.
However, I'm wondering why so many linux users switch to mac as well. Yes, you can finally use powerpoint and word, but you loose independence from vendors. I like mac, but I do not
like people advocating it like the new heaven. It's not. And it's actually running many open
software tools in the background without an easy way to choose. Example: it runs cups as a print server. What if you do not want to use cups? Or need a newer version and you do not want to pay for an upgrade (the one which came with 10.1 does not talk to linux cups servers well)? What about the compilers? It comes with gcc, but perhaps you need a different version of it? In Linux, whatever distribution, you can change these things easily. Just install the package you like. Apple is not going to create a
package database because they want to keep everything under control.
In my opinion, an mac is good for laptop use (unless you replace your desktop). I wouldn't want to buy a mac server, however. Simply because hardware is more expensive, and you cannot install software as easily (unless you use the software apple provides of course).
Apple's not dying. They're just beleaguered.
OSuX
I can only speak for myself, but it was the free iTunes for Windows that led me to the iPod, and is leading me to a Mac. I run iTunes, and it's easy and works, and then I compare that to how Windows works... Can you imagine if Microsoft had tried to make a program like iTunes?
Just last night I was in a MobileMonday -meeting at a local bar in Helsinki. It used to be a meeting for nerds interested in mobile stuff, but it has been overrun by marketdroids and you rarely see a nerd there any more.
Anyway I was talking to a business contact, who is a partner in a management consultant company. His comment last night was that Microsoft is the sales department for OS X. They trashed all their PCs and switched totally to OS X -environment as XP's ServicePack 2 came out. They just couldn't get their PCs to co-operate with that pack. What amazed me was that this came from a guy that's allways used PCs and is in no way interested in geek-stuff - he is a management consultant after all. And this happens in Finland, that's propably one of the most pro-PC countries in the World. Three years ago I used to know only a couple of people who used Macs. Now it seems that number has well over trippled, and that's mostly converts.
Personally I do use PCs, Macs & Unix boxes (HP & Sun), with major OSs. But as a for my laptop, the choise has been clear for years. Apple's laptops were far ahead in battery life for years. Nowadays there's not that much difference, but the usability, stability and connectivity is still there...
If all else fails, pull the plug and get out...
The Life is out there...
Am I the only one who thinks this sounds quite funny?
nice .sig, although Americans aren't going to understand it.
Or Windows to Linux? Or Linux to Windows, Linux to Mac or Mac to Linux? We're not quite seeing the whole picture here.
In this world nothing is certain but death, taxes and flawed car analogies.
I worked in a school where they had a suite of iBooks for video editing using iMovie- they were not the most powerful beasts at 500MHz G3 and 128MB of RAM, but they were good enough for the kids to splice footage together and mess about with transitions. Later last year we got a bunch of iBook G4s in along with copies of Final Cut Express- I started having a fiddle with them, just to get a feel for OS X and gradually realised that I was enjoying using a computer for the first time in a while. I am one of those peopl who periodically tries to use Linux but gets frustrated by all the configuraion difficulties.
The only problem for me getting one was price, that changed earlier this year with the Mac Mini- I bought one and loved it to pieces. As a result of the Mini being around, my housemate and two of his friends are now owners of 12" iBooks, my uncle is getting a Mini and my cousin is going for a 15" Powerbook. Myself, I just bought one of the new 17" iMac G5s, the recent bump seemed to move it into a sweet spot where I thought it was worth buying.
Seven Mac sales where before there were only PC users, obviously this is just a point of data and not a trend, but I think it shows how thse things can snowball. I do stil use my PC by the way, it is more powerful than the Macs- but I only use it for games now, and to be honest I can't see me upgrading it or getting a new one in the future.
"...and on the seventh day we wrapped." JMS 4:22 May 5, 1997
I use linux for work and windows for pleasure (games...), but am very interested in all these mac-thingies. But is it somehow possible to get a taste of what OS X and Mac is all about, without effectively buying one? And since the main reason I still keep a windows around is for games, how about gaming-support for Mac? Does e.g. farcry, halflife2, UT2004, etc. exist for Mac?
int main(void) {while(1) fork(); return 0;}
According to checks with Apple Store Specialists, Wolf also said a larger than expected percentage of Windows to Mac converts appear to be purchasing Apple's higher-end systems and that their transition is fueled by the epidemic of viruses and malware on the Windows platform."
Ok. This is the law of probability, and it DOES NOT Mean that you have a more reliable, secure OS. If you have 90 something percent of the marketshare, You will have more viruses. So as more people flock to OSX, We will begin to see its many exploits.
Also, The whole Mac Mini thing has COMPLETELY turned me from mac. Considering most of their userbase are die hard Mac Fanboys, I couldnt beleive what they did. Well, Ok, Fanboys and Grade Schools.
Please release an evluation version of your mighty OS for VMWare Player! It will be too slow for real use, but it will let people (including me) try out OSX and maybe i will like it.
I promise I'm not trying to start a fight.
I use computers about 40-60% of my waking life. I fix the computers of my friends and family, ran a triple boot (two flavors of Linux, one of windows) for a while in college, managed a computer lab of Sun Solaris systems and Dell systems running Linux, and work daily on a Win2000 computer which I use to connect to a Unix server. I've done graphic design and video editing on Mac systems for four years (it was a while ago though) and use them occasionally when I'm setting things up or fixing stuff for people.
I still haven't found a real reason to stop using Windows. As some people have mentioned Linux on the desktop was the ultimate time sinkhole. At the time getting sound to work took ages (even using popular desktop distros) and if I changed hardware it meant quite a bit more time getting it working. I finally let the linux installs slip into oblivion and my current windows install (same one that was running with the two linux distros) has been rocking since Windows 98SE. I haven't had to do a single clean install. I started with a Dell but I finally built a system and simply swapped in the old hard drive and repaired Windows to get it working with the completely new system. I've never had a significant issue with Windows. I've run email/web/ftp servers, done graphic/web design, played games, etc and it does everything I need of it. At work I only use the Unix system because of a 30-40 year old system, which nobody wants to pay to update (trust me it needs to be updated whether it stays on *nix or not).
All I'm saying is Windows at home has been completely satisfactory for my personal use. I have no desire to switch to a Mac and certainly not to Linux. Understandably Windows is not a great OS for many situations. Many posts here seem to think Windows as a personal desktop computer is a royal headache. I've never really experienced this. It's worked for quite some time for me despite being stretched in many different directions.
Just like to point out the 'analysts' predictions ...
... or is that fix their model) ...
- "Needham had previously estimated that 500,000 Windows users would purchase a Mac in 2005"
- "larger than expected percentage of Windows to Mac converts appear to be purchasing Apple's higher-end systems"
- "previously forecast the that hard drive-based music players would take over the market"
Why should we trust Needham & Co.'s future predictions now that they have presumably fixed their "model", maybe we should dig this up in a year to see will we see them retract their new predictions (
- outpacing hard disk players by a more than 2-to-1 ratio over the next several years
- 1.8-inch hard drive players will continue to play an important role because their high capacities are uniquely suited for video content
I also like the way he "hedges his bets" by basically saying 'something might happen'
"Anal"ysts make me laugh
I think one of Steve Jobs ideas when he released the iPod for Windows was to get Windows users into the Apple Stores. Once you have an iPod, there are tons of accessories you can pick up... and where is the best brick & mortar to get them from?... the Apple Store. These are people that would never have stepped into an Apple Store had they not gotten an iPod. As most of you know... once you walk into an Apple Store, it's quite unlike any other computer store. They have their hardware (beautiful hardware) out all over the place. They have staff that is actually helpful. I'm sure the iPod has contributed to more PC users getting Macs (maybe not exclusively switching... but some switching and some adding a machine to their current inventory).
Heresay about conjecture. That is so kewl d00d!
-Rob
Biblical fiscal responsibility
True that many mac users are clueless about computer security just like the majority of windows users, but the disabled root user and authorisation requirements still put them in a better place when the day comes. Other than that, perhaps the firewall should be on by default but you know then people would complain about MSN messenger not functioning - and for what reason? Joe Luser deems the mac inferior and switches to a Windows PC which would get real viruses today.
For being a consumer OS and having zero existing malware threats I would say Apple are on the level. But I expect their strategy to change if/when actual problems arise.
There's no 'on' position on the Slacker switch!
Isn't pomme "potato"?
The filesystem is the package manager
Your employable?
Always good to see clueless people citing Scripture to suit their own ends, free of any surrounding text, free of any real thought to understand what it means.
In any case, it sounds like the OP is simply trying to get his work done, and that there aren't as many options on the Mac as he'd like.
I've never been so ashamed of being a /. reader. You people are deluded.
That is phenomenal growth for a company of its type and size. unlike apple, it does not try to sell goods that are priced at an incredible premium based on name and popularity.
Exactly Dell's problem. No pricing power because they are selling the same thing as everyone else. Race to the bottom. I notice that you trumpet revenue growth and not profits.
He is completely ignoring the highly probably activity of many mac users of holding off on mac purchases in expectance of the G5 and lower prices for it.
You are utterly divorced from reality. The big switch, to Intel, is coming next year. If customers were to hold off on purchases, that time would be now, but they are showing a lot of growth and new converts.
Peace be with you,
-jimbo
XML Tools for Mac OS X
I have a 12" Powerbook and it does have that feature but you have to close the lid to put it into sleep mode in order to do the swap trick. You only have a few seconds to do it in. RTFM.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
This is very interesting. I was going to mod you down, but you are already at -1. Then I thought to myself: "I actually use and LOVE Keynote, but I don't really use Pages, so modding this comment without first hand experience would be unfair."
So I fired up Pages, opened the Three Panel Brochure template (I guess that's what you meant), and noticed that if I replaced the template text, the program would be dog slow. Not as slow as you say: after typing a very, very long sentence, the last character would appear around six seconds after I typed it, which is anyway too annoying.
So I was going to mod you up. But then I saw all the comments saying that they don't experience such a long lag... WTF? So I closed the document and started a new one using the Club Newsletter template, which looks fairly complex. To make things fair, I inserted five different pages all with several columns, pictures, side texts (or however they are called). By the way, everything looks very cool, and far more complex than the Three Panel Brochure. I started editing all over the place, with *absolutely* no delay.
So the problem is actually with the specific template! Apparently it's much more complex than it seems, or the author screwed up, or it uses a particular "feature" that kills Pages. In any case, you can make documents that look much more complex using other templates (although I only tested those two).
Someone please mod parent as "Underrated". I personally thought that describing my findings would contribute more to the discussion.
Oh, by the way: Pages - Just say yes only if you have already tested the template you want to use.
Keynote, that's a totally different story. Keynote rocks!
Meh... too bad I already posted in this story, so I can't mod this up.
Seriously, this is great advice.
See their website. It's way too useful. And cross-platform to boot.
You've got to be kidding me. I ripped them off by upgrading their computer to a point where they can actually use it? You certainly don't have enough information about me to make judgments about my character. Most of my residential clients are sufficiently wealthy individuals who are very happy with my service and fully understand my income model. Most are happy to have someone who will actually explain to them why 256 MB isn't suitable for running the applications they use, rather than trying to get in and out in under 10 minutes.
Furthermore, I donate my time and money to recondition my wealthy customer's old systems for families who cannot afford a system. The last three systems I gave away were faster than 1 GHz and all went out with 512 MB of RAM or more. I sleep just fine at night.
Actually, that's probably the best application of scripture I've heard in a long time. The point of the verse is that we, as imperfect beings, have limited knowledge, and because we have limited knowledge, any conclusions we draw can be, or in many cases are downright likely to be, wrong. Only God, as the one omniscient being, can draw judgments that are certain to be correct.
Because the OP had flawed, imperfect knowledge in many areas -- what he was trying to do, what tools are available, how to use those tools -- the judgment to which he so blindly rushed turned out to be just plain wrong.
It's an illustration of hubris. When man thinks he's omniscient, like God, he ends up making a big mistake. To quote more scripture, "Pride goeth before the fall."
Half of the reason that so many people are swithching to mac is because it's so easy! The support for it is outanding. It's at least ten times better then dell's. My mac mini has worked for almost a year and its still like brand new.
Out of curiosity, how much do you open at once? I currently have 24 windows open from 9 different apps, on 3 different desktops (oh, make that 10 apps, I'm running Desktop Manager), and things are smooth as silk. Of course, I upgraded my RAM a few months ago - at 384 it would have been starting to stutter a little. But since I went up to 768, I have yet to open enough stuff at once to slow it down.
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
the switch to intel wasn't announced until well after the G5 release, and the release of the mac mini. both could have easily boosted sales until the announcement of the intel processor. Its not being divorced from reality to assume that there could be a large difference in the first three quarters of this year from last year due to hold offs for the G5.
btw, if you want to know dell's profits, they have increased by I believe a factor of 3 over the last 4 years, from 1.1 billion to 3.4 billion(I can't look them up from here, so if you don't believe them, feel free to do the research). but you are right, in a way it is a race to the bottom. They see a post tax margin about 3.4 percent less than that of apple(which is huge).
Returning cards that don't work costs you money? I don't get your logic. Buy the cards, try them. If they don't work return them for your money back. I've done it before.
In fact my typical hardware plan is to find out what linux supports, and then buy something else, just to open the box and return it. I want to cost companies money by allowing hardware without linux support on their shelves. They will get the message if every linux user made this their plan for hardware purchases.
Does the pre-dot com burst really matter? I thought we were talking about trends within the last two years and this past year?
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
For every one million users that switch to Mac, there's another million (yes, the third world counts too) starting to use computers and starting with regular PC/Window boxes. Affordability of the Mac is still a huge drawback. Apple's profits from getting one million users doesnt guarantee a drop in the price of Macs in the near future.
I don't really like Word for Mac 2004, but, frankly, what else is there?
If I had a choice between writing a document in Word and writing it in a 1970's line editor with ad-hoc markup using dot commands and macros, I'd fire up EDT/SOS/TECO/ED in a minute.
Gawd Word is horrible. It knows about no text object larger than a paragraph, and no layout object larger than a table. Everything else, including chapters, sections, lists, and captions, are built out of gluing "this paragraph" and "next paragraph" styles together. Even RUNOFF did better than that.
Reference here: The first generation Aluminium 12" Powerbooks did not have this feature, although it was added later. I have an 867MHz 12" Powerbook, ergo I do not have this feature. So RTFM right back at you and fuck the moron who modded me flamebait.
www.clarke.ca
Yes I do find that better. I may have opened the window 10 minutes ago if it were say... a word document and have no idea what the page actually looks like. And I don't want to have to hover my mouse over each one to figure out what its name is. I'm one of those users who doesn't even want their taskbar to autohide because it takes "too long" for me to find what I'm looking for. Speed is to me most critical in a multi-app environment. 2 monitors are necessary on any computer with a monitor smaller than 23" (I have a apple 23" Cinema so I'm not all anti mac) and Multiple desktops just slow me down, that's ONE MORE CLICK. On windows I can access any open application/window in one click with accuracy, OSX doesn't allow me to do that. Sorry for double posting, but it applied to both.
Sorry for double posting, but it applied to both. And I didn't feel like typing a similar response.
Yes I do find that better. I may have opened the window 10 minutes ago if it were say... a word document and have no idea what the page actually looks like. And I don't want to have to hover my mouse over each one to figure out what its name is. I'm one of those users who doesn't even want their taskbar to autohide because it takes "too long" for me to find what I'm looking for. Speed is to me most critical in a multi-app environment. 2 monitors are necessary on any computer with a monitor smaller than 23" (I have a apple 23" Cinema so I'm not all anti mac) and Multiple desktops just slow me down, that's ONE MORE CLICK. On windows I can access any open application/window in one click with accuracy, OSX doesn't allow me to do that.
I guess this will be revealed next year. ha
http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/06/ 1421234&tid=180
When you go down to the dock in OS X, you can right-click on an icon for an application to see a list of the windows open in that application and choose one to go straight to... Exactly like the taskbar in Windows. I mean, for a while the taskbar does keep every window in its own little space so you truly get one-click - but once you have more than a few windows open it consolidates all the windows for each app into one button, and it becaomes exactly like the dock. And you still have to click twice to get the window you want. I guess maybe with a 23" monitor the number of windows you have to have open before it consolidates them is high enough that you don't ever run into that?
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
This article should be modded -1, Troll.
Do you have the media panel open? I have been using pages for months at glorious speeds, absolutely amazed by it in all aspects (for home use, at least).
Then one day I needed to insert a photo that I had in iPhoto. Almost stopped responding. The thumbnails started to load into the panel, about 1 every 10 seconds. I have thousands of photos, but iPhoto itself has 'teh snappy'. So I closed the panel and waited a bit. No change. 100% processor use, dog slow, a second or more for every keystroke to appear.
I still haven't found the problem, but the workaround was to simply not use the iPhoto integration. Photos dragged from the finder have no problems, and only if the media panel is or has been open is there any slowness.
It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety. Isaac Asimov
All I can say is, once you go Mac OS X, everything else seems inferior. And I mean EVERYTHING. :-)
I now get thoroughly upset that my steering wheel has TWO buttons to honk the horn!
And I lift my glass to the awful truth which you can't reveal to the ears of youth except to say it isn't worth a dime.
Not if you disable "group like icons" in windows. I will admit there is one application that makes the OSX interface almost acceptable to me and that is Witch, and I will say that is one schnazzy UI app.
focus follows mouse, shift workspace on scroll over desktop, 2 17" monitors. it's amazing...
i like to use workspaces when i have to non related things going on.. if i'm switching between them i have time to scroll over the desktop
i'm also a very big fan of icons that only require one click, but i also like a menu that pops up when i click or right-click the background (takes less space than icons, and it's right there just a little down)
something kind of similar is, though
When I add a machine to the network, I power it on. I add it to the appropriate group in Workgroup manager. All our applications are mounted via NFS as /Network/Applications with support files in /Network/Library.
The ONLY thing we do after booting up the machine is renaming it (so it isn't Local Administrator's Computer), run software update, and walk away. As soon as the updates are done, the machine is good to go.
I don't have to install ANY software. All my office's software is in the Applications mount point. All the configurations that get pushed to the workstation are in Workgroup manager. There is NO setup time, and it only took me about 2 hours with the server to get those settings...
I said "for my office..." If you didn't pick up on it, I use my machines to make money, not as a hobby.
Contrast a Windows machine: install it, join the domain, reboot... Run software update, normally 2-3 times to get all the updates... reboot. Install Firefox, install Thunderbird, install MS Office, install Quickbooks, reboot. Add appropriate users to appropriate permissions (if needed), now the machine is good to go.
And with the Mac, I don't need to worry about the latest Worm getting ran by accident and shutting my business down.
Does that Mac have problems? Yes, there is/was a bug that caused either SMB or AFS to suck up 100% utilization, which caused the machines to run dog slow. We had a bad machine that seemed to nuke our network and the OS X Server handled it badly. But that was our ONLY IT need in the past few months.
I'm VERY happy with my Macs.
I am NOT deluding myself, because whenever we go on a hiring spree, we're buying 5 computers.
For home use, the Mac is MUCH less tinkering, but I'm not running the stuff that you are. I MOSTLY use the iLife apps, and some music composition software for my wife. I'm sure to run lots "hacker" software (and I'm using it in quotes for a reason), it's a lot of work, but I don't have that much stuff running.
Are their downsides to the Mac... sure, a few, but tinkering time isn't one of them for MY USAGE.
Alex
But I fear that Apple is growing a group of computer idiots for users.
My how times have changed! I was once told by an employer that "Macs were for stupid people". (circa 1990)
And over the years, how many times have I heard that Macs were for "creative types", for graphics, and for idiots?
Thank you, OS X. We appear to have shed that stereotype. However, a core constituency of Macintosh has always been "a group of computer idiots", i.e., people who do not have the inclination, patience, skills, time, or smarts to figure out the intricacies. How and why these Mac users (non switchers) are different from your typical windows user is left as an exercise for the reader.*
*Maybe they're not all that different.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Stupid title is to try and catch jmorris's attention.
2 2
:-)
J,
Even after showing you what a straw man your alleged lack of tools in early OS X was...
Even after showing you that even that straw man is gone, you keep complaining....
If your goal is to be anal, then there's really not much to talk about....go install your favorite "real" UNIX (whatever the F that means to you...anything dated prior to Fall '03 that can run cpio *without* dropping resource forks, apparently) and enjoy!
If you wish to pitch your "Apple Doesn't Care About UNIX" to someone who (I *think* you'll agree) DOES care about UNIX, maybe you should direct it to the guy in charge of Apple's UNIX effort?
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22jordan+hubbard%
Go ahead and let the (co?)founder of FreeBSD know you think he's doing a piss poor job of caring about UNIX.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.