Go tell that to the cuys at www.cheapbytes.com, who have been selling them for many months.
SuSE doesn't mark what's non-free? When you select a package, it will display a description that includes the license. It will even show popups in some cases!
You are just parroting something you heard somewhere else.
1) Don't try to use the current CVS HEAD branch (the one that uses Qt 2.0) now!!!! It's severely broken. It *will* get better in some weeks/months, but KDE 1.1 is a lot more stable.
You could use the KDE_1_1 branch, which is KDE 1.1+bugfixes, though.
And as for how does it look... I have no current URLs, but try http://www.jorsm.net/~mosfet/kde-plat.gif
2) Yes, KDE and KWM are not yet as themable as other toolkits/desktops, although KWM is the 2nd most themable WM I know.
3) More than 1 kpanel, no.
4) Spreading images all across kpanel, I don't know, I don't see why not.
5) Active applets in kpanel, it's supported already. You can swallow any X application (say, wmclock, or xbiff), and there are KDE aplications that "dock" in the panel (kpmdock, klipper, kppp, knotes).
6) Eye candy and themes are secondary. Functionalty, stability and productivity are more important. Having said that, more eye candy is coming;-)
...running a xterm replacement that supports pseudotransparency, like eterm, aterm, or wterm.
Goes and comes? What are you talking about?!?
on
QPL 1.0 Released
·
· Score: 1
------ "You will throw mud" "Vaporware is a good way to start" ------
Go and bring me one quote of me saying something false about GNOME. As for Vaporware, put it in context. Lots of things in GNOME *are* vapor.
What's GNOME supposed to be? "Network Object Model Environment"??? Where can I download a network object model environment? THE NAME ITSELF IS VAPOR.
----- Hmm, you can't be held responsible for the words of others but GNOME developers should be held responsible for what Bruce Perens (the "GNOME backer") says. I see. -----
Where did I say that? I say Bruce, a GNOME backer, should be held responsable for what he said, Raster should be held responsable gor what he said, Miguel should be, the FAQ maintainer should be for what he puts in the FAQ, you should for what you say, and I should for what I say.
Once everyone eats his piece of the pie, let's see who's fatter.
----- Rare my ass. You are in denial. Do a search for GNOME, Redhat or GIMP on kde-list and tell me that again with a straight face. -----
I don't need to, I was there. Go do a search for KDE in the GIMP list for all Icare, since the thread was crossposted to both lists.
Are you gonna whine to the GIMP people now?
Goes and comes? What are you talking about?!?
on
QPL 1.0 Released
·
· Score: 1
Ok, I'm pissed.
Want to see the first ever FUD attempt in this? Look at the first ever mention of GNOME, the GNOME announcement. There you will find the "KDE forces you to use one WM" and the "KDE has technical issues" crap. So, I assume you now believe I am entitled to throw mud at GNOME?
I have asked Miguel a dozen times to give details on what he means by "technical troubles" and whatever, as have many others, to no response.
There is no such thing as "my KDE backers", I am just a programmer trying to do what I can. I can't be held responsable by the words or actions of others, wether they are related to KDE or not, as can't other KDE people. Noone here can give orders to others, specially me. Finally, I claim not be better than anyone, I have my share of badness.
"Raster was joking"? Well, fuck off. Oops, that was a joke.
"Afraid"? Sure. I am afraid that what was once a rather nice place to be around, the "free software community" is coming to be just the same swamp the commercial software world is, ruled by marketeers and liers.
And as for whining about unfair treatment: if I feel I am being treated unfairly, you bet your butt I am going to try to do something about it. If people try to push competing products based on lies, half truths, and digs at things I am involved with, you bet I am going to talk about it. It's my fucking right, and I plan on exercising it.
As for the death of UNIX on the desktop, mill, if it wasn't for KDE there would be no GNOME, and you would have no fucking unix on the desktop.
Finally: I am subscribed to all the kde mailing lists, and it's very rare that GNOME is even mentioned, much less flamed. There is an exception in the last few days because of Miguel's stupid attacks on us. Our reply? We put their fucking announcement on our news page.
Or some other GNOME person I don't remember saying in a magazine that "if you wanted to defeat germany you need to bomb Berlin"?
Or Bruce Perens (big GNOME backer) saying in a magazine that KDE was "disgusting"?
Or Miguel, every time he can saying KDE has "technical shortcomings" and "design issues" and that "KOM is a hack" or that "we won't use KOM/OP because we want to do it right" and NEVER, not even ONCE saying what the fuck is he talking about specifically?
Or like Miguel trolling #kde asking every one to help GNOME because KDE was "evil" and "doomed"? For two weeks???
Or the GNOME guys saying all the time "we are catching up, KDE had a huge lead"? Wake up and smell the roses, we had a 8 month lead, and we delivered 1.0 a year earlier, and it was solid. The gap is getting wider.
Besides, mailing lists is one thing, magazines and press releases are another.
You are wrong, let me count the ways...
on
QPL 1.0 Released
·
· Score: 1
1) ILU is not a component object model.
ILU is an ORB (as in CORBA).
2) GNOME doesn't use ILU
The GNOME ORB of choice is ORBit. Another thing they decided to unnecesarily (IMHO) implement from scratch.
3) GNOME doesn't have a component object model yet
Whatever that buzzword chunk is supposed to mean, except in their name. They have a *project* for a object model called BABOON, which is not actually implemented yet.
4) KOM/Openparts is the same as ILU
No, KOM/OpenParts is about the same as Baboon. Or rather, it will be in some time when Baboon reaches some state of usability. On the other hand, KOM/Openparts has existed and been in use for about a year. Descriptions of it have been published on some of the finest computer magazines in the world (c't or iX?)
5) ILU is a standard
No, ILU is just a implementation (and a rather excentric one!) of a *part* of the CORBA standard.
6) The other guy was criticizing GNOME for using a standard instead of the think KDE made up
GNOME's Baboon is no standard. It is (will be) at most based, or "inspired" on Microsoft's OLE. It is (will be) imlemented on top of a standard, which is CORBA.
KDE's KOM/Openparts is not based on OLE, and is implemented on top of the same standard.
------- Stop using shadow effects for window button icons. They are hard to see and stupid looking. -------
I don't know what you mean. The buttons in the titlebar? Those are just pixmaps, you can change them. I use the ones from the MAC KDE theme, which are sober yet pretty.
--------- Don't put useless crap in the middle of the scroll bar thumb. I see a hole (what for?) in one image and a MacOS thingy in the other. Eew. ---------
The hole is a NeXT thingie. It is trying to look like NeXT so it makes sense. The code to disable that is about 20 lines, if you feel so inclined.
--------- Gradients do not belong anywhere. Don't put them accross button faces. Don't put them accross title bars. Think! You just made one side hard to read and you fucked up the subtle 3d effect. ---------
I like to use *some* gradients just to make things look pretty, but that's personal taste. Gradients on titlebars can be easily disabled in KDE's control center.
--------- Motif drop-down combo boxes are confusing and they look like shit. Gtk and Qt both copy this? Pardon me while I puke... ---------
In Motif style, it makes lots of sense to do them that way! If you prefer the 95 style comboboxes, that is, of course, also available.
-------- This is a license for code they haven't generally released yet. They haven't actually released a product and they've announced the license! --------
Specificaly the part about how the current snapshots are RELEASED under THIS LICENSE.
Go look at koffice. Look at Kom. Look at OpenParts.
Now tell me where I can get a working, documented version of Baboon. Hell, tell me where I can get a sane *description* of Baboon that's not a link to MS docs.
You are wrong, and here's proof:
on
QPL 1.0 Released
·
· Score: 1
Now STFU.
Quoting from http://www.labs.redhat.com/news-1q98.shtml, news dated January 12 1998:
------------------------- Lots of discussion about CORBA going on. This is important to resolve, as it core to the Gnome environment. Apparently its down to ILU, OmniORB, or Mico. All have strengths and weaknesses. For the record, KDE is already using Mico successfully. --------------------------
Slashdot Mirror
I have a Red Hat 4.2 system here that does the same thing.
/boot.
In fact, if I remember right, the FHS *requires* the booting kernel to be in
Other than that, isn't it a bit paranoid that because their choice of LILO configuration doesn't match yours they are "forcing" you to something?
Go tell that to the cuys at www.cheapbytes.com, who have been selling them for many months.
SuSE doesn't mark what's non-free?
When you select a package, it will display a description that includes the license. It will even show popups in some cases!
You are just parroting something you heard somewhere else.
Add session types in KDE's control center.
:-)
The chosen session type is passed as first argument to ~/.xsession (or xsession).
Make ~/.xsession parse it right and execute as needed
But I'll try to answer anyway.
;-)
1) Don't try to use the current CVS HEAD branch (the one that uses Qt 2.0) now!!!! It's severely broken. It *will* get better in some weeks/months, but KDE 1.1 is a lot more stable.
You could use the KDE_1_1 branch, which is KDE 1.1+bugfixes, though.
And as for how does it look... I have no current URLs, but try http://www.jorsm.net/~mosfet/kde-plat.gif
2) Yes, KDE and KWM are not yet as themable as other toolkits/desktops, although KWM is the 2nd most themable WM I know.
3) More than 1 kpanel, no.
4) Spreading images all across kpanel, I don't know, I don't see why not.
5) Active applets in kpanel, it's supported already. You can swallow any X application (say, wmclock, or xbiff), and there are KDE aplications that "dock" in the panel (kpmdock, klipper, kppp, knotes).
6) Eye candy and themes are secondary. Functionalty, stability and productivity are more important. Having said that, more eye candy is coming
right. That's standard KDE menu behaviour.
:-)
I mean, the menu acts just the same, it's just up there
"exec startkde" uses a bit less ram, since it replaces the current shell, while just "startkde" keeps two shells in memory.
But because of how modern unixes manage memory you are saving perhaps 50KB.
KDE can be configured to use no screen real estate at all, except for the following:
1) a 1 pixel band for the autohidden panel (you *can* hide it completely, though)
2) a 1 pixel band for the taskbar (optional too)
3) The window frames.
If you really want to save those 4 pixels wide and 26 pixels tall, you can use another KDE aware WM:
3.1) flwm uses only 18 pixels wide and no pixels high
3.2) WM uses about 24 pixels high and no pixels wide.
4) Background icons, but that is not really what you mean, right?
By using the Mac-like menubar, you actually use *less* screen real estate, depending on how you measure it.
Well, it *does* do that here :-P
BTW: blackbox is KDE aware, so you can mix and match as much as you want...
...running a xterm replacement that supports pseudotransparency, like eterm, aterm, or wterm.
------
"You will throw mud" "Vaporware is a good way to start"
------
Go and bring me one quote of me saying something false about GNOME. As for Vaporware, put it in context. Lots of things in GNOME *are* vapor.
What's GNOME supposed to be? "Network Object Model Environment"??? Where can I download a network object model environment? THE NAME ITSELF IS VAPOR.
-----
Hmm, you can't be held responsible for the words of others but GNOME developers should be
held responsible for what Bruce Perens (the "GNOME backer") says. I see.
-----
Where did I say that? I say Bruce, a GNOME backer, should be held responsable for what he said, Raster should be held responsable gor what he said, Miguel should be, the FAQ maintainer should be for what he puts in the FAQ, you should for what you say, and I should for what I say.
Once everyone eats his piece of the pie, let's see who's fatter.
-----
Rare my ass. You are in denial. Do a search for GNOME, Redhat or GIMP on kde-list and tell
me that again with a straight face.
-----
I don't need to, I was there. Go do a search for KDE in the GIMP list for all Icare, since the thread was crossposted to both lists.
Are you gonna whine to the GIMP people now?
Ok, I'm pissed.
Want to see the first ever FUD attempt in this?
Look at the first ever mention of GNOME, the GNOME announcement. There you will find the "KDE forces you to use one WM" and the "KDE has technical issues" crap. So, I assume you now believe I am entitled to throw mud at GNOME?
I have asked Miguel a dozen times to give details on what he means by "technical troubles" and whatever, as have many others, to no response.
There is no such thing as "my KDE backers", I am just a programmer trying to do what I can. I can't be held responsable by the words or actions of others, wether they are related to KDE or not, as can't other KDE people. Noone here can give orders to others, specially me. Finally, I claim not be better than anyone, I have my share of badness.
"Raster was joking"? Well, fuck off. Oops, that was a joke.
"Afraid"? Sure. I am afraid that what was once a rather nice place to be around, the "free software community" is coming to be just the same swamp the commercial software world is, ruled by marketeers and liers.
And as for whining about unfair treatment: if I feel I am being treated unfairly, you bet your butt I am going to try to do something about it. If people try to push competing products based on lies, half truths, and digs at things I am involved with, you bet I am going to talk about it. It's my fucking right, and I plan on exercising it.
As for the death of UNIX on the desktop, mill, if it wasn't for KDE there would be no GNOME, and you would have no fucking unix on the desktop.
Finally: I am subscribed to all the kde mailing lists, and it's very rare that GNOME is even mentioned, much less flamed. There is an exception in the last few days because of Miguel's stupid attacks on us. Our reply? We put their fucking announcement on our news page.
Or Raster saying it was time to "crush KDE"?
Or some other GNOME person I don't remember saying in a magazine that "if you wanted to defeat germany you need to bomb Berlin"?
Or Bruce Perens (big GNOME backer) saying in a magazine that KDE was "disgusting"?
Or Miguel, every time he can saying KDE has "technical shortcomings" and "design issues" and that "KOM is a hack" or that "we won't use KOM/OP because we want to do it right" and NEVER, not even ONCE saying what the fuck is he talking about specifically?
Or like Miguel trolling #kde asking every one to help GNOME because KDE was "evil" and "doomed"? For two weeks???
Or the GNOME guys saying all the time "we are catching up, KDE had a huge lead"? Wake up and smell the roses, we had a 8 month lead, and we delivered 1.0 a year earlier, and it was solid. The gap is getting wider.
Besides, mailing lists is one thing, magazines and press releases are another.
1) ILU is not a component object model.
ILU is an ORB (as in CORBA).
2) GNOME doesn't use ILU
The GNOME ORB of choice is ORBit. Another thing they decided to unnecesarily (IMHO) implement from scratch.
3) GNOME doesn't have a component object model yet
Whatever that buzzword chunk is supposed to mean, except in their name. They have a *project* for a object model called BABOON, which is not actually implemented yet.
4) KOM/Openparts is the same as ILU
No, KOM/OpenParts is about the same as Baboon. Or rather, it will be in some time when Baboon reaches some state of usability. On the other hand, KOM/Openparts has existed and been in use for about a year. Descriptions of it have been published on some of the finest computer magazines in the world (c't or iX?)
5) ILU is a standard
No, ILU is just a implementation (and a rather excentric one!) of a *part* of the CORBA standard.
6) The other guy was criticizing GNOME for using a standard instead of the think KDE made up
GNOME's Baboon is no standard. It is (will be) at most based, or "inspired" on Microsoft's OLE. It is (will be) imlemented on top of a standard, which is CORBA.
KDE's KOM/Openparts is not based on OLE, and is implemented on top of the same standard.
KOM/OP exists, is toolkit independent, and works.
And an answer to your final question:
"Why doesn't KDE support Gnome's object model?"
What object model?????
Let me know where you get free Motif.
And where you get all those nifty VBX and OCX for
free.
And where you get libgtop, libreadline, libgdbm for free to use on your commercial, proprietary application.
And where you get Zinc for free. Or Galaxy.
Lately they seem to believe the LGPL is only good as bait.
-------
Stop using shadow effects for window button icons.
They are hard to see and stupid looking.
-------
I don't know what you mean. The buttons in the titlebar? Those are just pixmaps, you can change them. I use the ones from the MAC KDE theme, which are sober yet pretty.
---------
Don't put useless crap in the middle of the
scroll bar thumb. I see a hole (what for?) in
one image and a MacOS thingy in the other. Eew.
---------
The hole is a NeXT thingie. It is trying to look like NeXT so it makes sense. The code to disable that is about 20 lines, if you feel so inclined.
---------
Gradients do not belong anywhere. Don't put them
accross button faces. Don't put them accross
title bars. Think! You just made one side hard
to read and you fucked up the subtle 3d effect.
---------
I like to use *some* gradients just to make things look pretty, but that's personal taste. Gradients on titlebars can be easily disabled in KDE's control center.
---------
Motif drop-down combo boxes are confusing and
they look like shit. Gtk and Qt both copy this?
Pardon me while I puke...
---------
In Motif style, it makes lots of sense to do them that way! If you prefer the 95 style comboboxes, that is, of course, also available.
--------
This is a license for code they haven't generally released yet. They haven't actually released a product and they've announced the license!
--------
Specificaly the part about how the current snapshots are RELEASED under THIS LICENSE.
Apologies?
A styled text display widget is basic for a modern desktop.
I won't say GNOME is buggy, I haven't used 1.0.
Now, go and look at the 1000 posts in the GNOME announcement, read the GNOME list archives, and make your own decision.
Kom is used quite widely now, and on the next
KDE version every one will use it.
If publicity stunts is all it takes, I'll do it
myself. But, as I said, that would suck.
What's the point of "winning" if you need to become such a waste in the process?
I mean, I supposed we were in this for technical superiority and fun. And now I have to care about this crap?
;-)
BTW: I know about baboon because, well, I know about lots of things I shouldn't waste valuable brain space on
Go look at koffice. Look at Kom. Look at OpenParts.
Now tell me where I can get a working, documented version of Baboon. Hell, tell me where I can get a sane *description* of Baboon that's not a link to MS docs.
Now STFU.
Quoting from http://www.labs.redhat.com/news-1q98.shtml, news dated January 12 1998:
-------------------------
Lots of discussion about CORBA going on. This is important to resolve, as it core to the Gnome environment. Apparently its down to ILU, OmniORB, or Mico. All have strengths and weaknesses. For the record, KDE is already using Mico successfully.
--------------------------
Now be a man and apologize... oh, well.
You are of course correct.
;-)
What would be a good word to describe the thing?
I mean besides "a bunch of points in n-dimensional space"
Speed of a program is not a scalar magnitude.
;-) of speed as a function of memory available.
;-)
It's a multidimensional manifold, where each
individual computer's speed at running the program defines a data point.
Imagine, for example, the simplest case, the unidimensional manifold, ( also known as "curve"
At different memory values, rest of the hardware constant, windows 95 is faster or slower than NT.
There are similar things for disk speed, CPU speed, and whatever.
Having said this, I will abstain from answering your question