... that's your opinion and you are perfectly right to have one, but let me tell you a few things.
1) single click activation == feature
Damn right it's a feature! What is the rational explanation for double click? It only made sense in the mac because they only have one button. On anything else, it's silly.
I'm amazed by those who critizice KDE for being windows-like and then proceed to discard any difference without giving a rational explanation.
2) Objective C == proper language
Whatever floats your boat, but I believe the main reason for GNUStep development to be this slow -- and it's slow, people said GNUStep was going to be ready really soon in the original KDE thread, october 1996, and still there are no usable results -- is Objective C.
Why? Because only a few people know Objective C and most noone else cares about it.
It may be a damn good language, but if there is no developer mass, it can never make up for it.
I mean, it may be 10 times easier to learn than C++, and make development 5 times as simple, but if you have 1/100th the developer mass, you are still 20 times slower to develop.
...complain about KDE fudsters and then try to spread fear by saying KDE is going commercial?
On other notes: "Qt has not delievered (whatever)" Qt is not a company, TT is.
TT has promised that Qt 2.0 will be released under a open source license. Qt 2.0 has not yet been released (it is available as a beta, though), so where is the lie in that?
Finally: the chance of KDE going commercial is less than the chance of the FSF going commercial.
At least the FSF owns copyright of its software, while KDE's belongs to each of the hundreds of contributor.
...complain about KDE fudsters and then try to spread fear by saying KDE is going commercial?
I won't even try to dissect the dozen lies or attempts at searing there are in this utterly worthles post, but I will say this: The page he says smears RMS is an interview. With him.
----------- 1)The STL doesn't define a string class. Some STL implementations have one, but it isnot a standard. -- I think that you are mistaken, see the now accepted standard on strings. The standard most definately provides a string class and Qts is not to my knowledge complient. ----------- The URL you provide contains a description for a string class. Yet it never says it complies to any standards.
That description is part of a "working paper" dated december 1996. Yet, on my copy of egcs, which is dated in 1998, I see: "NOTE : This does NOT conform to the draft standard and is likely to change" on it's string header.
Can you shed any light?
-------------- 2)STL containers can be used trivially with Qt. I assume that you are only attempting trivial things with them then. Last time I read the Qt documentation, it did not provide a direct translation from types such as vector to their Array and such. Without such you will with suffer a penalty of having to convert types if you mix containers from Qt and STL. Although I admit I am hardly a Qt expert. If you are wrong, please send code. ------------
Why mix them? If you want to use STL comtainers, use them. If you want to use Qt containers, use them. I see no contradiction between what I said and what you said, except for your trivial slam at my usage of STL.
I must have deleted 3), sorry.
------------ I have no knowledge of the mime++ class, so I won't comment. ------------
You claimed interfacing Qt with other libraries was a problem. Can you give an example? A reason?
------------ (about using wchar to do STL strings do unicode) ------------
That is not really a solution. Or rather, it's a clunky, ugly, slow solution.
I wrote one, so it must exist. And before anyone says otherwise: it was a semi-trivial task. 90% of the work was done automatically by a tiny python script.
I remember when we started our developers IRC channel, and we had someone logged 24 hours a day for two weeks, often only opening his mouth to ask every new person that joined if he would like to drop KDE and join GNOME...
Now, was that lame or was that lame?
And that person was no fan boy, he was a developer, some would say a respected GNOME developer.
Of course those of us who saw his lame act do not respect him much anymore.
And no, I won't name names, unless someone from GNOME denies it, which I hope no one is foolish enough to do.
----------- While that is technically true, (certainly here in lawsuit-happy USA), I don't think the parallel is valid. A company saying "we don't guarantee we won't sue" implies, in many peoples mind "if you cross a line that you are very close to, we will sue you". I'm sure the thought of a likely lawsuit did not help encourage Harmony developers to stick around. -----------
So basically what you say is that you believe the people at Troll Tech having a lower moral standard than the people at the FSF, and that such prejudice has affected your reading of that quote.
Troll Tech is not in the US. You should not taint their statements with the weird idea US people have of lawsuits as a tool to opress.
Slashdot Mirror
* spreaded the false news about the KDE free Qt foundation being unexistant.
* took off from SPI with the Open Source Trademark under his arm which the SPI says he didn't have the right to do.
* if he has indeed called Tim O'reilly a parasite, worked for a parasite
* announced he was quitting to the SPI (but didn't quit really, or not right then)
* quitted from debian (and told rather unpleasant things to them, which sadly I can't quote)
He seems to have joined again?
* announced he was founding a Red Hat based distribution when quitting from debian.
And this is only what *I* remember.
I have no quarrel with Mr. Perens, but I would take anything he says with a grain of salt a little larger than the usual one.
... that's your opinion and you are perfectly right to have one, but let me tell you a few things.
1) single click activation == feature
Damn right it's a feature!
What is the rational explanation for double click?
It only made sense in the mac because they only have one button. On anything else, it's silly.
I'm amazed by those who critizice KDE for being windows-like and then proceed to discard any difference without giving a rational explanation.
2) Objective C == proper language
Whatever floats your boat, but I believe the main reason for GNUStep development to be this slow -- and it's slow, people said GNUStep was going to be ready really soon in the original KDE thread, october 1996, and still there are no usable results -- is Objective C.
Why? Because only a few people know Objective C and most noone else cares about it.
It may be a damn good language, but if there is no developer mass, it can never make up for it.
I mean, it may be 10 times easier to learn than C++, and make development 5 times as simple, but if you have 1/100th the developer mass, you are still 20 times slower to develop.
...should still be there, named ksirtet.
:-)
BTW: try kshisen-so
Is assignment of copyright to the FSF demanded for
GNOME code?
I would be very surprised since there is at least one piece of it that asks for copyright assignment to someone else (libart)
Download the beta and read the README.
As for KDE's switching to Artistic, several pieces already have, didn't you look?
...complain about KDE fudsters and then try to spread fear by saying KDE is going commercial?
On other notes: "Qt has not delievered (whatever)" Qt is not a company, TT is.
TT has promised that Qt 2.0 will be released under a open source license. Qt 2.0 has not yet been released (it is available as a beta, though), so where is the lie in that?
Finally: the chance of KDE going commercial is less than the chance of the FSF going commercial.
At least the FSF owns copyright of its software, while KDE's belongs to each of the hundreds of contributor.
...complain about KDE fudsters and then try to spread fear by saying KDE is going commercial?
I won't even try to dissect the dozen lies or attempts at searing there are in this utterly worthles post, but I will say this: The page he says smears RMS is an interview. With him.
-----------
1)The STL doesn't define a string class. Some STL implementations have one, but it isnot a standard.
--
I think that you are mistaken, see the now accepted standard on strings. The standard
most definately provides a string class and Qts is not to my knowledge complient.
-----------
The URL you provide contains a description for a string class. Yet it never says it complies to
any standards.
That description is part of a "working paper" dated december 1996.
Yet, on my copy of egcs, which is dated in 1998, I see: "NOTE : This does NOT conform to the draft standard and is likely to change" on it's string header.
Can you shed any light?
--------------
2)STL containers can be used trivially with Qt.
I assume that you are only attempting trivial things with them then. Last time I read the
Qt documentation, it did not provide a direct translation from types such as vector to
their Array and such. Without such you will with suffer a penalty of having to convert
types if you mix containers from Qt and STL. Although I admit I am hardly a Qt
expert. If you are wrong, please send code.
------------
Why mix them? If you want to use STL comtainers,
use them. If you want to use Qt containers, use them. I see no contradiction between what I said and what you said, except for your trivial slam at my usage of STL.
I must have deleted 3), sorry.
------------
I have no knowledge of the mime++ class, so I won't comment.
------------
You claimed interfacing Qt with other libraries was a problem. Can you give an example? A reason?
------------
(about using wchar to do STL strings do unicode)
------------
That is not really a solution. Or rather, it's a clunky, ugly, slow solution.
I wrote one, so it must exist.
And before anyone says otherwise: it was a semi-trivial task. 90% of the work was done automatically by a tiny python script.
And no phony vtables were used, either.
1) The STL doesn't define a string class.
Some STL implementations have one, but it is not a standard.
2) STL containers can be used trivially with Qt.
4) I have interfaced C++ libraries to Qt with no
problem whatsoever (the mime++ class, specifically)
5) Qt's QString class can now do unicode. How do you do that with the non-standard STL string?
I use linux since about 1.1.59, and wouldn't drop
KDE for a fvwm setup unless someone pointed a gun to my head.
I remember when we started our developers IRC channel, and we had someone logged 24 hours a day for two weeks, often only opening his mouth to ask every new person that joined if he would like to drop KDE and join GNOME...
Now, was that lame or was that lame?
And that person was no fan boy, he was a developer, some would say a respected GNOME developer.
Of course those of us who saw his lame act do not respect him much anymore.
And no, I won't name names, unless someone from GNOME denies it, which I hope no one is foolish enough to do.
The Kimp was *never* distributed, so it can hardly have been removed from distribution.
-----------
While that is technically true, (certainly here in lawsuit-happy USA), I don't think the
parallel is valid. A company saying "we don't guarantee we won't sue" implies, in many
peoples mind "if you cross a line that you are very close to, we will sue you". I'm sure
the thought of a likely lawsuit did not help encourage Harmony developers to stick around.
-----------
So basically what you say is that you believe the
people at Troll Tech having a lower moral standard than the people at the FSF, and that such prejudice has affected your reading of that quote.
Troll Tech is not in the US. You should not taint
their statements with the weird idea US people have of lawsuits as a tool to opress.
The day you have a product of any kind, I would
love to see you guarantee you won't sue me.
Guess what? Nobody that has a product ever does that.
The FSF won't guarantee it won't sue me either.
I think I remember from the netwinder development list that you can put either 2 or 8 megs of VRAM on the thing (but not 4).