If you're quoting from what I think you're quoting, you'll find the author was Greg Bennett. I believe that around that time he was working for Boeing as a NASA contractor, and so eminently placed to comment on the matter.
But you need evidence that private enterprise does it cheaper and better. So, who has the most advanced graphite-epoxy fuel tanks in the world? The best rocket engines in the world? The best vertical-landing rocket technology? Aerial cryo-propellant transfer? The best high-performance, non-toxic propellants? Modular, flight-tested space habitat components? Not NASA, private enterprises. If you want more evidence, just stick your nose into the aerospace world and look around.
But you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that the US Govt. doesn't do things the cheap way. NASA is a US government technology showcase, not an inter-planetary transport company.
The decade is a working schedule, not a worshiped schedule. With people of sufficient independent means like Robert Bigelow entering the arena, doubts about private investors begin to fade. Eventually one or more big players will back this idea all the way and they'll make a killing - with or without Artemis. Preferably with - easier for both camps:)
Artemis could do it all by itself by following its current program of re-investment and collaboration (the "lemonade stand" philosophy), but it is unlikely that investors will stay away for that long!
Yes it will make going to the moon much easier, but it can be done with current materials and equipment. The trick is not to use technology showcases like the Shuttle, to use real consumer-driven technology, and proven kit like Spacehabs and RL10 engines.
Now if nanotech comes along and gives us diamondoid tanks, engines, turbopumps and lunar processing machinery (no carbon, so we'll probably use aluminium oxide to build lunar nanotech) before the mission can get off the ground then you can guess who is going to be absolutely ready to take advantage of the new materials, right?
Personally I don't know which one is going to come first, but I'm not going to hang around and wait for someone else to do it.
Thanks, I think I can see where you're coming from. You're from the "it won't work because I say so" camp. It's a waste of time because you say so, it's not worth the money because you say so, and a lunar base won't help lunar exploration because you say so. All very scientific stuff I'm sure.
If you can actually come up with a good reason why it won't work - and do try to pick one that isn't answered in the FAQ - let us know.
Shouldn't that be "spelling checker"? Maybe you're a hoax?:)
Seriously though, do bear in mind that English is not the first language of all Artmis Society members, and it does take a lot of work to maintain a site that huge.
I think you mean Biosphere II. That was an scientific experiment on ecosystems, and as such was not a failure - it gave results, and the important result was that it's no way to run a moonbase.
The Lunar biological environment requires much more rigid control and totally different techniques to cope with lunar vaguarities such as the 336hr night and shortage of organic materials like dirt.
You have managed to be ignorant, offensive and incorrect several times all in one post!
No, it's not a spoof as a quick perusal of the/. postings will show. The people who run the site (several dozen) are enthusiastic volunteers managing several thousand web pages, data tables and images contributed by society members from all over the world.
I can assure you that Artemis does not indulge in creating many sites - having just one that big is enough of a headache. While you may appreciate pop-up porn I hate to dissapoint you; there's none because it is not appropriate material with which to encourage today's youth to look to a bigger and more amazing future.
One of the more frequent questions I ask myself is why people knock the project, especially when they obviously haven't got a clue as to how it is all going to work or what they're talking about. Why knock it? What's their motive? What will they gain?
$6 Billion is roughly how much it would cost to make a self-supporting colony, but that cost would not satisfy current saftey concerns of safe crew retrieval in the event of an emergency. You'd need roughly another $1.5 Billion for that for a total of 5 missions - still somewhat less than the ISS costs.
Profit for the first mission is conservatively estimated at $3 Billion in the Artemis business plan. The base would be permanently habitable from the end of the 3rd mission as currently envisaged.
Just curious, what have you got against the project? Those images aren't exactly the best eye-candy on the site, and they aren't even to do with the moonbase. Couldn't you find something more representative?
People interested in nice pictures should look at the decent stuff, conveniently packaged for Mac & Windows users (Unix users generally being smart enough to figure out the image conversion themselves):
There are even better images on my website. I create these images to help the engineers envisage their work; it's actually a great assistance to the design phase.
Vik:v)
How to replace and support ALL interfaces
on
Is firewire dying?
·
· Score: 1
It's high time someone stopped putting many different breeds of IO ports on systems. You only need one, and that goes into a PGA (Programmable Gate Array). Download any interface specification you like into the beast and it can pretend to be a FireWire port, USB port, Appletalk, multiple serial interface, IrDA, BlueTooth, you name it you've got it. Your interface design can now be Open Source.
You'd need a programmable clock chip and maybe a couple of interesting driver chips too of course.
I used to prototype Ethernet chips on PGAs and I can't see anything wrong with this picture.
The problem with Star Office is that the darned thing suffers from all the problems that Word suffers from: It's absolutely huge, runs like a dog, and has an "I own everything" user interface.
I'd suggest that if it does go OS (which I doubt it will) that the Word and Excel import/export filters get taken out and the rest get thrown away.
Wheat and chaff having been duly separated, the good bits should get turned into libraries and used with worthy products like Abiword.
My ha'pworth.
Vik:v)
USB? What about more RS232 & I2C?
on
Linux on a SIMM
·
· Score: 1
If this is going to be in embedded applications, USB isn't useful right now. Most interesting devices like sensors, modems and GPS units etc. all run on RS232. I'd like to see more serial support; the I2C can be handled with bit-twiddling.
But at $175 I can get cheaper PC/104 modules from Taiwan that do the same sort of thing.
I've just been told that PhinX is still available so I thought I'd put that record straight.
We've not got it apparently because there are about 4 different versions and don't know which one we want. They all cost A$155 at the time of asking. If anyone can tell me which one works with XFree86, that'd be cool. (Of course I'll be asking those nice people at QNX technical support too).
I work with a large, mixed QNX/Linux system for my day job. This Photon GUI is all very well, but it only runs on QNX and Windows (through something called Phindows). Phindows needs a licence - QNX loves licences.
So if I'm using a Linux/X desktop, I can't access Photon applications. There is no current Photon viewer for Linux (phindows-in-X got dropped way back, and needed a licence), plus it's closed source so you won't get to develop your own.
It is possible to run Phindows under WINE, but WINE ain't so stable and if you lose the focus you may not get it back.
So it begs the question asking: What the heck has Photon got to do with Linux, and why is it on Slashdot?
Look, there is no reason why most of us should pay anyone for bandwidth. That's just a myth perpetuated by telecoms companies.
All we need to do is turn the world into one big, anarchistic, wireless WAN and run it by the people, for the people.
See http://www.indranet.co.nz for an 11Mbit system currently trialing in New Zealand and Freenet on http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/~iic/4yp/
The sooner people get off their arses and organise this, the sooner we'll be free of the complexities of ISPs, large IP bills, government censorship and dependence on telcos. All it needs is for someone to make an affordable comms link that will work across a road, and to make the design open source. Let's face it; that shouldn't cost more than a modem does now.
Yeah, don't hit airliners, they might have americans on them.
But blowing up a few buses, hospitals and other public assets somewhere around Europe seems to be fair game. Threatening punitive sanctions agains small countries is apparently OK too.
If the RIAA is such a pain in the butt, the solution is simple: Do not distribute the MP3s on American sites. Use foreign ones.
If the RIAA insist of driving the music distribution business away from America, then so be it. Stuff them. This is a global village and you don't have to stop off at their house.
I helped bring these devices to disabled users over a decade ago by writing drivers for CP/M and later DOS PCs that used the Quinkey or Microwriter keyboards.
They were cheap, and allowed chord typing for people with brittle bones or weak sight. We could modify the technology to fit harnesses so that anyone capable of hitting 6 independent keys simultaneously with any available appendage could use one.
They went out of business due to lack of demand. What more can you say?
The guts of the device was six diodes and six microswitches (cheap, cheap, cheap). They ran off a standard serial port. If anyone wants to know how to do it and is willing to start an algamic (http://agalmics.nu/) Linux Chord Keyboard project, mail me.
Apart from which, how many different Microsoft windowing environments are there? Let me see now, Win 3.1, Win95, WinNT, Windows CE, Windows 2000 on the horizon, and if he's being picky we'll throw in the Internet Exploiter desktop theme.
I've seen PC-on-a-stick and PIC-based SIMM products before. Has anyone checked to see if any of these products are even remotely pin-compatible with each other?
I'd be tempted to set up something using a standard hard drive and PC/104 board. For viewing what's on it with the PalmPilot I'd recommend using VNC from http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/
I hasten to add that I've not done this myself, but would like to. What you really need is a wireless connection between the PDA and the server. Then the server & batteries live in a bum-bag, and the PDA can be waved around.
As I said in the reply, a page editor is no good for a themed website. A web *site* design package is what paid website designers like my good lady wife Suz need.
Slashdot Mirror
If you're quoting from what I think you're quoting, you'll find the author was Greg Bennett. I believe that around that time he was working for Boeing as a NASA contractor, and so eminently placed to comment on the matter.
:v)
But you need evidence that private enterprise does it cheaper and better. So, who has the most advanced graphite-epoxy fuel tanks in the world? The best rocket engines in the world? The best vertical-landing rocket technology? Aerial cryo-propellant transfer? The best high-performance, non-toxic propellants? Modular, flight-tested space habitat components? Not NASA, private enterprises. If you want more evidence, just stick your nose into the aerospace world and look around.
But you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that the US Govt. doesn't do things the cheap way. NASA is a US government technology showcase, not an inter-planetary transport company.
Vik
The decade is a working schedule, not a worshiped schedule. With people of sufficient independent means like Robert Bigelow entering the arena, doubts about private investors begin to fade. Eventually one or more big players will back this idea all the way and they'll make a killing - with or without Artemis. Preferably with - easier for both camps :)
:v)
Artemis could do it all by itself by following its current program of re-investment and collaboration (the "lemonade stand" philosophy), but it is unlikely that investors will stay away for that long!
Vik
The whole world needs nanotech, mate :)
:v)
Yes it will make going to the moon much easier, but it can be done with current materials and equipment. The trick is not to use technology showcases like the Shuttle, to use real consumer-driven technology, and proven kit like Spacehabs and RL10 engines.
Now if nanotech comes along and gives us diamondoid tanks, engines, turbopumps and lunar processing machinery (no carbon, so we'll probably use aluminium oxide to build lunar nanotech) before the mission can get off the ground then you can guess who is going to be absolutely ready to take advantage of the new materials, right?
Personally I don't know which one is going to come first, but I'm not going to hang around and wait for someone else to do it.
Vik
[Chairman Structures & Mechanisms Ctte., Project Artemis] vik@asi.org
Thanks, I think I can see where you're coming from. You're from the "it won't work because I say so" camp. It's a waste of time because you say so, it's not worth the money because you say so, and a lunar base won't help lunar exploration because you say so. All very scientific stuff I'm sure.
:v)
If you can actually come up with a good reason why it won't work - and do try to pick one that isn't answered in the FAQ - let us know.
Vik
Shouldn't that be "spelling checker"? Maybe you're a hoax? :)
:v)
Seriously though, do bear in mind that English is not the first language of all Artmis Society members, and it does take a lot of work to maintain a site that huge.
Vik
I think you mean Biosphere II. That was an scientific experiment on ecosystems, and as such was not a failure - it gave results, and the important result was that it's no way to run a moonbase.
:v)
The Lunar biological environment requires much more rigid control and totally different techniques to cope with lunar vaguarities such as the 336hr night and shortage of organic materials like dirt.
For a quick rundown on the issues, check out The Artemis Biological Recycling page or get a copy of the next Artemis Magazine.
Vik
You have managed to be ignorant, offensive and incorrect several times all in one post!
/. postings will show. The people who run the site (several dozen) are enthusiastic volunteers managing several thousand web pages, data tables and images contributed by society members from all over the world.
:v)
No, it's not a spoof as a quick perusal of the
I can assure you that Artemis does not indulge in creating many sites - having just one that big is enough of a headache. While you may appreciate pop-up porn I hate to dissapoint you; there's none because it is not appropriate material with which to encourage today's youth to look to a bigger and more amazing future.
One of the more frequent questions I ask myself is why people knock the project, especially when they obviously haven't got a clue as to how it is all going to work or what they're talking about. Why knock it? What's their motive? What will they gain?
Vik
$6 Billion is roughly how much it would cost to make a self-supporting colony, but that cost would not satisfy current saftey concerns of safe crew retrieval in the event of an emergency. You'd need roughly another $1.5 Billion for that for a total of 5 missions - still somewhat less than the ISS costs.
:v)
Profit for the first mission is conservatively estimated at $3 Billion in the Artemis business plan. The base would be permanently habitable from the end of the 3rd mission as currently envisaged.
Vik
Just curious, what have you got against the project? Those images aren't exactly the best eye-candy on the site, and they aren't even to do with the moonbase. Couldn't you find something more representative?
:v)
People interested in nice pictures should look at the decent stuff, conveniently packaged for Mac & Windows users (Unix users generally being smart enough to figure out the image conversion themselves):
http://www.asi.org/adb/06/09/0 5/image-downloads.html
There are even better images on my website. I create these images to help the engineers envisage their work; it's actually a great assistance to the design phase.
Vik
It's high time someone stopped putting many different breeds of IO ports on systems. You only need one, and that goes into a PGA (Programmable Gate Array). Download any interface specification you like into the beast and it can pretend to be a FireWire port, USB port, Appletalk, multiple serial interface, IrDA, BlueTooth, you name it you've got it. Your interface design can now be Open Source.
:v)
You'd need a programmable clock chip and maybe a couple of interesting driver chips too of course.
I used to prototype Ethernet chips on PGAs and I can't see anything wrong with this picture.
Vik
The problem with Star Office is that the darned thing suffers from all the problems that Word suffers from: It's absolutely huge, runs like a dog, and has an "I own everything" user interface.
:v)
I'd suggest that if it does go OS (which I doubt it will) that the Word and Excel import/export filters get taken out and the rest get thrown away.
Wheat and chaff having been duly separated, the good bits should get turned into libraries and used with worthy products like Abiword.
My ha'pworth.
Vik
If this is going to be in embedded applications, USB isn't useful right now. Most interesting devices like sensors, modems and GPS units etc. all run on RS232. I'd like to see more serial support; the I2C can be handled with bit-twiddling.
:v)
But at $175 I can get cheaper PC/104 modules from Taiwan that do the same sort of thing.
Vik
http://olliver.penguinpowered.com
Overzealous aren't I? It's hard to remember the rest of the world sometimes - like when people always ask for ZIP codes and States on web forms.
:)
:v)
I think perhaps I need to increase the dose and lie down in a darkened room until my Linux glands calm down
Vik
I've just been told that PhinX is still available so I thought I'd put that record straight.
:v)
We've not got it apparently because there are about 4 different versions and don't know which one we want. They all cost A$155 at the time of asking. If anyone can tell me which one works with XFree86, that'd be cool. (Of course I'll be asking those nice people at QNX technical support too).
Vik
Are there any hard numbers which compare QNX with Linux in this "Real Time" context? I'd be very keen to get hold of some hard facts here.
:v)
If it shows a weakness in the Linux kernel, someone might improve it!
Vik
I work with a large, mixed QNX/Linux system for my day job. This Photon GUI is all very well, but it only runs on QNX and Windows (through something called Phindows). Phindows needs a licence - QNX loves licences.
:v)
So if I'm using a Linux/X desktop, I can't access Photon applications. There is no current Photon viewer for Linux (phindows-in-X got dropped way back, and needed a licence), plus it's closed source so you won't get to develop your own.
It is possible to run Phindows under WINE, but WINE ain't so stable and if you lose the focus you may not get it back.
So it begs the question asking: What the heck has Photon got to do with Linux, and why is it on Slashdot?
Vik
I speak for nobody but myself.
Look, there is no reason why most of us should pay anyone for bandwidth. That's just a myth perpetuated by telecoms companies.
:v)
All we need to do is turn the world into one big, anarchistic, wireless WAN and run it by the people, for the people.
See http://www.indranet.co.nz for an 11Mbit system currently trialing in New Zealand and Freenet on http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/~iic/4yp/
The sooner people get off their arses and organise this, the sooner we'll be free of the complexities of ISPs, large IP bills, government censorship and dependence on telcos. All it needs is for someone to make an affordable comms link that will work across a road, and to make the design open source. Let's face it; that shouldn't cost more than a modem does now.
Vik
PS If you have such a device LET ME KNOW!
They've released it which is what matters. I don't much care what their reasons are, but I'd like to think they've woken up to the new world order.
:)
:v)
All I've got to do now is figure out what to do with it
Vik
Yeah, don't hit airliners, they might have americans on them.
:v)
But blowing up a few buses, hospitals and other public assets somewhere around Europe seems to be fair game. Threatening punitive sanctions agains small countries is apparently OK too.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Vik
If the RIAA is such a pain in the butt, the solution is simple: Do not distribute the MP3s on American sites. Use foreign ones.
:v)
If the RIAA insist of driving the music distribution business away from America, then so be it. Stuff them. This is a global village and you don't have to stop off at their house.
Vik
I helped bring these devices to disabled users over a decade ago by writing drivers for CP/M and later DOS PCs that used the Quinkey or Microwriter keyboards.
:v)
They were cheap, and allowed chord typing for people with brittle bones or weak sight. We could modify the technology to fit harnesses so that anyone capable of hitting 6 independent keys simultaneously with any available appendage could use one.
They went out of business due to lack of demand. What more can you say?
The guts of the device was six diodes and six microswitches (cheap, cheap, cheap). They ran off a standard serial port. If anyone wants to know how to do it and is willing to start an algamic (http://agalmics.nu/) Linux Chord Keyboard project, mail me.
Vik
Apart from which, how many different Microsoft windowing environments are there? Let me see now, Win 3.1, Win95, WinNT, Windows CE, Windows 2000 on the horizon, and if he's being picky we'll throw in the Internet Exploiter desktop theme.
:v)
The guy is a waste of space.
Vik
I've seen PC-on-a-stick and PIC-based SIMM products before. Has anyone checked to see if any of these products are even remotely pin-compatible with each other?
:v)
Wouldn't that be nice?
Vik
I hasten to add that I've not done this myself, but would like to. What you really need is a wireless connection between the PDA and the server. Then the server & batteries live in a bum-bag, and the PDA can be waved around.
No need to connect wires to PCs either.
We can dream. Vik :v)
As I said in the reply, a page editor is no good for a themed website. A web *site* design package is what paid website designers like my good lady wife Suz need.
:v)
Vik