The RIP bill actually specifies that taking measures to intervene with decryption for monitoring purposes is a crime. If you are asked for your keys you must hand them off.
But luckily for the inhabitants of this Land Of Big Brother there is a new European law protecting your rights. Of course jurisprudence is not yet available to prevent this gross invasion of privacy. When a company has a problem with an employee they can question him/her, there is absolutely no need for blanket snooping.
No wonder the BBC reported yesterday? that the Brits are the most miserable-feeling people in Europe......
"It was an odd admission considering that the Winamp player doesn't distinguish between playing legal and illegal MP3s either."
Shit, I better hide my cassette recorder/VCR/Radio/TV/etc. next time the cops are in the area, after all neither do these distinguish legal and illegal....
Stupidity does not prevent you from becoming a reporter.
A while back I bought a LEGAL player, I just bought a LEGAL disk while abroad and now I found I can not play it in this combination.
I am strongly considering returning it to the local rep of the movie comp./player manufactorer with a demand to have it exchanged for one that DOES play or else I claim fraud on behalf of the retailer/distributor......
BTW: in Europe the majority of players sold are region free.
I would like to see companies bound by a policy that they have to state, and have employees sign every 6 months. This policy would describe what channels are monitored, when, and who to appeal to. Snooping should also only cover outbound calls, or inbound only under suspicion, as employees have less control over who calls them.
I can largely agree with this quoted description
For example in The Netherlands this type of snooping can only be done after a (general) warning and the consultation+OK of the elected personnel representation.
When for some reason (in a criminal investigation)this warning might spoil the efforts only a court order can allow such secret snooping in a very precisely described way.
The main difference between the US and European privacy laws is that in Europe we have them.....
Another difference is that in Europe we don't so much have freedom of speech but instead freedom of information and that is a two-way street.
Does that mean that I can't modify said future hardware purchase without being in violation of the DMCA even if it was for a "legit" purpose??
It looks like the real hackers have to leave for the Land of the Free: i.e. out of the USofA.
I don't see for example Europe installing laws similar to the corporate greed driven DMCA.
And then Europe should claim the Great American Freedom of Trade as a reason to be able to export it to the US.....
Yes you missed something: the reality in the third world is that nearly all computers run on "free" software, you only pay for the CD-R and the trouble of copying.....
So the source does not matter, Linus or Bill, the price of a copy is the same:))
Good for the US of A!
But does the UK have such an institution?
And is that British librarian institution at all interested in free access to information?
Don't forget the UK does not have anything remotely like a bill of rights.....
Nice start, even better when computers are assigned to kids depending on their parents authorisation.
It has been sugested before on/. ; Adults have every right to view what pleases them and only the parents have the authority to limit information exposure of their (own!) kids.
Thus membership cards should have the K,F or U classification countersigned by the parents.
No card-no U class computer.
Watch out: Free speech is just the (a popular) name of the beast, the real thing is freedom of information!
And information is only free when the flow is allowed to be in both directions!
So you better rethink the rest of your ideas about this cencorship. Besides, a public library is typically funded with public money (ours) and the governement should not be allowed to meddle in our information exchange.
Don't end up being Betamax man
Hey man, I use 2 Betamaxes nearly every day!
Utterly reliable and good picture.
Plenty of cheap second-hand tapes to be had.
No problem with Macrovision:))
I find it curious how you in the US differ so much on this subject (privacy) from us in Europe (with the exception of the UK wich is to all purpose a police state).
Our freedom of speech is not as pronounced as the US version, for example we can not legally promote hate like nazism.
But we have a lot more protection when it comes to privacy, regardless where we are.
Only after a company is informed that their systems are being abused can they start to investigate, usually under very strict rules and conditions.
For example here in Holland the elected employees committee has to approve of the methodes to be used.
Although the law is not quite clear most people expect the same protection against reading of their E-mail as there is against the unauthorised opening of ordinary mail, WHY NOT?
When an employer needs the tool of tabs on internet and phone use to assure their employees are puting in their money's worth of work there is something rotten in the system.
Modern companies set productivity targets and when people are meeting them it's rather unimportant what else they do!
The issue in DeCSS is that the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) prohibits breaking encryption. In section 1201(a)(1)(A), it states, "No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title." But that's just the issue: the encription does NOT control the access! Any player you buy has the key(s) to deceipher and play the work (DVD content). The only thing it '(DeCSS) does is enable similar access on other platforms than M$!
I'm quite sure that no licence on a DVD or DVD player says you can only access it through a Bill Gates systems.
Hold your horses! Without having read the real article I do see at the start of this thread something like Microsoft applications
For me that means only applications that have been authored BY Microsoft, not just FOR Windows.....
The worst case for this might be the end of preloaded windows in Pennsylvania.
I'm very worried about you being wrong. As it is possible to get hardware failures through wrong software I'm afraid they'll now only give waranty on M$ run systems as thats the Devil they know......
Of course someone somewhere will filter out things that they deem inappropriate. Abortion issues? Gun control?
There we go!
As an enlightened? European I'm very worried about the -so called- "Moral Majority" as they come to us from the USA.
Luckily I know there's a legal separation of religion and governement in the USA as in most civilized countries.
When this censorship law comes thru I expect the blocking of all religious sites on governement-payed (i.e. my taxmoney) computers.
Excelent decision by your library, the only correct one in case your community thinks it needs to censor. Only this way parents are given and not taken their rights. Would I be contributing towards a library as a local taxpayer I would certainly not accept them to censor me!
About the 18/16 years "age of consent": when one (man?) is deemed old enough to die for his country (join the army) then he is old enough to make ALL decisions as an adult i.e. by himself.
Who's bubble, I feel you have an unwarranted believe or trust in democracy in Britain.
It's the only western country wouthout a bill of rights or a constitution, there are few other western countries where you can get a vast!! majority in parliament with only some 40% of the votes (~25% of eligible voters) as in the previous conservative governement of mr. Major.
Historically a country with a dubious democratic reputation: the largest Nazi party outside of Germany led by an associate of the royal family. A police force that has regularly put people behind bars on utterly false grounds. The highest number -per capita- of "security" video surveylance camera's anywhere. The motherland of the writer of "1984". A country where governement officers (customs) can enter and search your home without a court order. A recent study confirmed that the class system is still allive and kicking.
Who is surprised this is happening in the UK of all places......
We have to recognise that we generally do not "own" the software, we merely buy a licence to the use of ONE copy on a SINGLE machine. In my world that means I use the stupid installation CD of Qompaq/Toshiba/etc. only as a proof of owning a licence and do my installs/maintenance from the copy of a regular uncrippled CD. As far as I know (here) in Holland there are court rulings supporting this. It's not the copying that's illegal, it's the use of copies WITHOUT a licence that's illegal!
And copyrights usually have a clear purpose, to protect the financial interrest of the owner. In the case of a book or piece of music the dammage from the infringement is quite clear; it's a copy less sold. In this case there is no such loss to the copyright owner, any one can get hold of a 'free' copy anyway! I see some similarities with the copyright claims the "church" of Scientology keeps asserting in courts all over the world, yet the difference is their book is not for sale or otherwise available to the general public unless you are willing to give up your freedom and join them.... (Oops, does that sound like Micro$oft?) In short, I like the reply of Slashdot and think M$ is lost in the judicial swamp. Dirk
Carbon Monoxide is not a worry on a global climatic scale, Carbon Dioxide might be.... But it was at a high during the reign of the mightyest animals ever, the Dinosaurs. Keep on dreaming!
"does that mean Be would no longer be able to ship NetPositive (their web browser), sound recorder, CD burner, etc. with the OS?"
Read the original texts again, there is no problem with applications being shipped (free or for money) with the OS; the problem is applications that cannot be separated from the OS. Or, writing undocumented code into the OS that makes it hard or impossible for the others' software to run. So you can bundle any amount of software with or without an OS as long as the consumer can make the decision as to what to use. Another matter is of course dumping i.e. the releasing of a product below manufacturing price for the sole purpose of distroing the smaller guys market...... probably what M$ did to Netscape. Had M$ been non-US and Netscape US-based I'm sure the US fair-trade authorities would have reacted even sooner!
When you speak about "our country" please explain as there are so many (countries). By your reference to a first ammendment can I assume you mean the USA? In that case I think you have a point!
Seen from the old country of Holland you are a typical representative of the Smalltown American Way.
You confuse and mix up differend things like sex, pornography and rape. People DO get hurt through rape and indeed there are extremely rare stories of rape to make porn but no-one gets hurt by looking at pornography or sex as such, not even (small) children when they have been brought up with an open mind to the human sexuality.
A prime example of wrong upbringing is this Irv Bos who so couragiously told about his (childhood) trauma after his dad's barn burned down. The source of his grief is not caused by his hiding of a porn book in the barn but by the superstition that false preaching had brought into his mind!
The sort of people that preach this dangerous belief are often (decendants of Dutch) immigrants of years gone by. These people came from remote rural areas and for them time has stopped when they left Europe. They try to cling to a world that no longer exists, not in the US and even less in The Netherlands. Thank God over here the topic of "Porn Is Dangerous" is largely a non-issue.
What remains is a dangerous liking by some to restrict access to information, based on obscure ideas that come forth out of the same sick minds as that caused mr. Bos his grief. In the old Jerusalem they were called Pharisees, in the US they are know by names like reverent Bakker to give just one example..... Good luck in the struggle
Slashdot Mirror
The RIP bill actually specifies that taking measures to intervene with decryption for monitoring purposes is a crime. If you are asked for your keys you must hand them off.
But luckily for the inhabitants of this Land Of Big Brother there is a new European law protecting your rights. Of course jurisprudence is not yet available to prevent this gross invasion of privacy. When a company has a problem with an employee they can question him/her, there is absolutely no need for blanket snooping. No wonder the BBC reported yesterday? that the Brits are the most miserable-feeling people in Europe......
"It was an odd admission considering that the Winamp player doesn't distinguish between playing legal and illegal MP3s either."
Shit, I better hide my cassette recorder/VCR/Radio/TV/etc. next time the cops are in the area, after all neither do these distinguish legal and illegal....
Stupidity does not prevent you from becoming a reporter.
The 700Mhz freed is an amount of BANDWITH not a FREQUENCY band! Read and try to comprehent before you post :-)
A while back I bought a LEGAL player, I just bought a LEGAL disk while abroad and now I found I can not play it in this combination.
I am strongly considering returning it to the local rep of the movie comp./player manufactorer with a demand to have it exchanged for one that DOES play or else I claim fraud on behalf of the retailer/distributor......
BTW: in Europe the majority of players sold are region free.
I would like to see companies bound by a policy that they have to state, and have employees sign every 6 months. This policy would describe what channels are monitored, when, and who to appeal to. Snooping should also only cover outbound calls, or inbound only under suspicion, as employees have less control over who calls them.
I can largely agree with this quoted description For example in The Netherlands this type of snooping can only be done after a (general) warning and the consultation+OK of the elected personnel representation.
When for some reason (in a criminal investigation)this warning might spoil the efforts only a court order can allow such secret snooping in a very precisely described way.
The main difference between the US and European privacy laws is that in Europe we have them.....
Another difference is that in Europe we don't so much have freedom of speech but instead freedom of information and that is a two-way street.
Does that mean that I can't modify said future hardware purchase without being in violation of the DMCA even if it was for a "legit" purpose??
It looks like the real hackers have to leave for the Land of the Free: i.e. out of the USofA.
I don't see for example Europe installing laws similar to the corporate greed driven DMCA.
And then Europe should claim the Great American Freedom of Trade as a reason to be able to export it to the US.....
Yes you missed something: the reality in the third world is that nearly all computers run on "free" software, you only pay for the CD-R and the trouble of copying..... :))
So the source does not matter, Linus or Bill, the price of a copy is the same
Good for the US of A!
But does the UK have such an institution? And is that British librarian institution at all interested in free access to information?
Don't forget the UK does not have anything remotely like a bill of rights.....
Nice start, even better when computers are assigned to kids depending on their parents authorisation. It has been sugested before on /. ; Adults have every right to view what pleases them and only the parents have the authority to limit information exposure of their (own!) kids.
Thus membership cards should have the K,F or U classification countersigned by the parents. No card-no U class computer.
Watch out: Free speech is just the (a popular) name of the beast, the real thing is freedom of information!
And information is only free when the flow is allowed to be in both directions!
So you better rethink the rest of your ideas about this cencorship. Besides, a public library is typically funded with public money (ours) and the governement should not be allowed to meddle in our information exchange.
Don't end up being Betamax man :))
Hey man, I use 2 Betamaxes nearly every day! Utterly reliable and good picture. Plenty of cheap second-hand tapes to be had. No problem with Macrovision
I find it curious how you in the US differ so much on this subject (privacy) from us in Europe (with the exception of the UK wich is to all purpose a police state).
Our freedom of speech is not as pronounced as the US version, for example we can not legally promote hate like nazism.
But we have a lot more protection when it comes to privacy, regardless where we are.
Only after a company is informed that their systems are being abused can they start to investigate, usually under very strict rules and conditions.
For example here in Holland the elected employees committee has to approve of the methodes to be used.
Although the law is not quite clear most people expect the same protection against reading of their E-mail as there is against the unauthorised opening of ordinary mail, WHY NOT?
When an employer needs the tool of tabs on internet and phone use to assure their employees are puting in their money's worth of work there is something rotten in the system.
Modern companies set productivity targets and when people are meeting them it's rather unimportant what else they do!
The issue in DeCSS is that the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) prohibits breaking encryption. In section 1201(a)(1)(A), it states, "No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title."
But that's just the issue: the encription does NOT control the access! Any player you buy has the key(s) to deceipher and play the work (DVD content). The only thing it '(DeCSS) does is enable similar access on other platforms than M$!
I'm quite sure that no licence on a DVD or DVD player says you can only access it through a Bill Gates systems.
Hold your horses!
Without having read the real article I do see at the start of this thread something like Microsoft applications
For me that means only applications that have been authored BY Microsoft, not just FOR Windows.....
I'm very worried about you being wrong. As it is possible to get hardware failures through wrong software I'm afraid they'll now only give waranty on M$ run systems as thats the Devil they know......
Of course someone somewhere will filter out things that they deem inappropriate. Abortion issues? Gun control?
There we go!
As an enlightened? European I'm very worried about the -so called- "Moral Majority" as they come to us from the USA.
Luckily I know there's a legal separation of religion and governement in the USA as in most civilized countries.
When this censorship law comes thru I expect the blocking of all religious sites on governement-payed (i.e. my taxmoney) computers.
Excelent decision by your library, the only correct one in case your community thinks it needs to censor. Only this way parents are given and not taken their rights. Would I be contributing towards a library as a local taxpayer I would certainly not accept them to censor me!
About the 18/16 years "age of consent": when one (man?) is deemed old enough to die for his country (join the army) then he is old enough to make ALL decisions as an adult i.e. by himself.
It's the only western country wouthout a bill of rights or a constitution, there are few other western countries where you can get a vast!! majority in parliament with only some 40% of the votes (~25% of eligible voters) as in the previous conservative governement of mr. Major.
Historically a country with a dubious democratic reputation: the largest Nazi party outside of Germany led by an associate of the royal family. A police force that has regularly put people behind bars on utterly false grounds. The highest number -per capita- of "security" video surveylance camera's anywhere. The motherland of the writer of "1984". A country where governement officers (customs) can enter and search your home without a court order. A recent study confirmed that the class system is still allive and kicking.
Who is surprised this is happening in the UK of all places......
We have to recognise that we generally do not "own" the software, we merely buy a licence to the use of ONE copy on a SINGLE machine.
In my world that means I use the stupid installation CD of Qompaq/Toshiba/etc. only as a proof of owning a licence and do my installs/maintenance from the copy of a regular uncrippled CD.
As far as I know (here) in Holland there are court rulings supporting this.
It's not the copying that's illegal, it's the use of copies WITHOUT a licence that's illegal!
And copyrights usually have a clear purpose, to protect the financial interrest of the owner. In the case of a book or piece of music the dammage from the infringement is quite clear; it's a copy less sold.
In this case there is no such loss to the copyright owner, any one can get hold of a 'free' copy anyway!
I see some similarities with the copyright claims the "church" of Scientology keeps asserting in courts all over the world, yet the difference is their book is not for sale or otherwise available to the general public unless you are willing to give up your freedom and join them....
(Oops, does that sound like Micro$oft?)
In short, I like the reply of Slashdot and think M$ is lost in the judicial swamp.
Dirk
Carbon Monoxide is not a worry on a global climatic scale, Carbon Dioxide might be....
But it was at a high during the reign of the mightyest animals ever, the Dinosaurs.
Keep on dreaming!
Read the original texts again, there is no problem with applications being shipped (free or for money) with the OS; the problem is applications that cannot be separated from the OS. Or, writing undocumented code into the OS that makes it hard or impossible for the others' software to run. So you can bundle any amount of software with or without an OS as long as the consumer can make the decision as to what to use. Another matter is of course dumping i.e. the releasing of a product below manufacturing price for the sole purpose of distroing the smaller guys market...... probably what M$ did to Netscape. Had M$ been non-US and Netscape US-based I'm sure the US fair-trade authorities would have reacted even sooner!
Dirk
When you speak about "our country" please explain as there are so many (countries).
By your reference to a first ammendment can I assume you mean the USA?
In that case I think you have a point!
You confuse and mix up differend things like sex, pornography and rape. People DO get hurt through rape and indeed there are extremely rare stories of rape to make porn but no-one gets hurt by looking at pornography or sex as such, not even (small) children when they have been brought up with an open mind to the human sexuality.
A prime example of wrong upbringing is this Irv Bos who so couragiously told about his (childhood) trauma after his dad's barn burned down. The source of his grief is not caused by his hiding of a porn book in the barn but by the superstition that false preaching had brought into his mind!
The sort of people that preach this dangerous belief are often (decendants of Dutch) immigrants of years gone by. These people came from remote rural areas and for them time has stopped when they left Europe. They try to cling to a world that no longer exists, not in the US and even less in The Netherlands. Thank God over here the topic of "Porn Is Dangerous" is largely a non-issue.
What remains is a dangerous liking by some to restrict access to information, based on obscure ideas that come forth out of the same sick minds as that caused mr. Bos his grief. In the old Jerusalem they were called Pharisees, in the US they are know by names like reverent Bakker to give just one example..... Good luck in the struggle
Oops! Wrong preview botton! sorry....