So, which one of the government agencies blew up the twin towers?
Or was it the jews?
Or was it the Masons?
Or was it ______ ?
Which crackpot idea you gonna support?
Or was it the one where two planes flew into the buildings that caused them to collapse, within an hour (Never mind that they were designed NOT to collapse in this case).
Re:I'm reminded of what Colnel Kurtz said
on
iPods at War
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
"Just take the above quotes and replace "Vietnam" with "Iraq" and "Charlie" with the insurgency and you have quotes that apply as much to this war as it did 'Nam"
Hardly. And if you only care about dead soldiers and not dead anybody else, or if you only care about US killed civilians and not terrorist killed civillians or.....
The conflict in Iraq is NOTHING like 'Nam, unless you are a peace and surrender at any cost type. You remember Chamberlain? ("I have a piece of paper")
The people we are fighting against, the Islamofacists don't care about anything the Cindy Sheehans of the world care about. They will kill her just as soon as she is done being useful to them.
They don't care about about political correctness or rights or anything of value to most of us. I think the war has already been lost, and making "nice" with them doesn't get anyone anywhere.
You don't live in California, do you? Democrats control everything and get away with everything republicans get away with elsewhere. Republicrats and Demicans. I can't tell the difference sometimes.
I am LIBERTARIAN, so I have no problems bashing Republicrats and Demicans.
But as for VOTING scandals, why is it that all of the problem votes occur in DEMOCRATICALLY controlled districts / counties ??????
Oh, and lets not compare numbers, or simply forget the latest 100K in the freezer, striking police officers, drunk driving, check kiting....
Corruption? BOTH sides are inherently corrupt, because the system, as it currently sits requires it. I think our country would be INHERENTLY more stable if we had part time legislatures everywhere. Meet one month per quarter, four months a year. Require them to have REAL jobs, and not be PROFESSIONAL politicians.
Professional politics is a recipie for corruption. The system is rigged!
Indeed. I know that most "internet" companies don't realize what "industry" they are in. They think they are in the "internet" business, and that is quite short sighted. It reminds me of the old comment made by a Railroad Magnate, who said... "We are in the Railroad Business". While that may be true, that is NOT what business he was in, he was in "Trasportation". And had he realized what business he was REALLY in, the whole paradigm would have changed, and our current view of moving things from point A to point B would have changed.
Getting back to the Internet, it is NOTHING but "communication". In fact the whole OSI model is predicated on communication. This has melded with computers which are nothing more than information processing systems, but have evolved beyond information processing to communication facilitation systems for information (processed or raw).
The idea of/. and wikipedia and such are just variations on this theme, even as is MySpace and Youtube are as well. So, when I see a survey, such as this one, I realize that the survey taker doesn't have a clue about what he is actually surveying.
Using the Railroad analogy, it is if the survey was asking about Box Cars and Pullman Sleepers, and discovering that people tend to use Pullman Sleepers rather than Box Cars to travel in, and thinking that it was some how... profound.
No, it isn't profound, it is natural segmentation according to needs. Box cars are needed, and will never disappear, but so too are Pullman Cars. Each are more specialized than before. What you are seeing is the specialization of the media, nothing more, so don't worry about Slashdot or the Web, it will still be there.
"Hi, I can't send email anymore, it says that I am out of tokens, I don't send that many emails to be out of tokens yet"
Zombie Identified.
and it gives the spammers an incentive to increase the number of bots they've got,
Like they need incentives.
Now, if the tokens were tied to and usable by only one person, that'd identify the spam sources. But then the tokens couldn't be used by the recipient as proposed.
I like this idea, but it would still work, as tokens are virtual, so I don't see the limitations you suggest. I can think of a couple of ways that tokens can be used for authentication as well. I would expect privacy advocates to come up with a reason why this is a bad idea, and perhaps provide sufficient measures to insure reasonable privacy.
But as long as new tokens are available from incoming spam, the outgoing spam can continue.
There would be all sorts of adequate ways to prevent this, like escrow. But now, instead of people raising their hands in dispair, we would have legal (criminal and tort) laws already available for prosecution of spammers, namely laws against stealing.
It'll only stop when the user makes the connection between his inability to send e-mail and the malware on his PC sending out spam, but if the lusers could manage that we wouldn't have these massive botnets in the first place.
THAT, my friend is the crux of the whole issue. My plan establishes levels of responsibility and identifies were potential problems are, and allow the holes in the current system to be plugged. Joe Luser will have to fix his problems and/or pay for tokens to keep his machine a spambot.
[quote]Then (assuming folks protect their private keys) no one can spoof another.[/quote]
Assumption is the mother of all FUBARS.
"Hi, this is Archangel, your system admin, can you give me your private key you use to sign email, I need it to configure your email on our new server. Thank you"
Men have been trying to remedy their.... shortcomings, using all sorts of interesting ways. What is funny is that the same people popping Viagra and Cialis or that thing "BOB" is selling, are the same people who laugh at the chinese poping bear gall bladders or whatever for exactly the same reason.
The US pharmakia (greek for witchcraft) companies realized that there was an huge untapped market for "male enhancement" products.
Oh, it is easy to knock something that is spelled out, especially while not offering any solution of your own. Or perhaps you don't mind sifting the 535 junk emails sitting in your spam folder waiting to find the one that is legit.
Your view is simply that there is NO solution, so don't bother trying. Meanwhile I waste my time ($), money ($) and resources ($) having to deal with Spam. So, what is your brilliant suggestion? Wait until the system breaks?
You must be a spammer, because anything that breaks the status quo, you are against for one of the reasons listed in your stupid checkbox. My favorite is "Sorry Dude, But I don't think it will work". My response is "sorry dude, but you are an idiot and I don't care what idiots think".
I see the war of SPAM as an escallation war. Each side escallates its response to the other sides latest counter move. At some point, the system is gonna break, and we haven't quite reached that point.
The real problem with SPAM is what I call "hidden costs" associated with it: the extra bandwidth, the cost of increasing filtering technology, the labor costs, oppotunity costs due to filtered legit emails......
Only real pain is going to stop SPAM. Pain on the SPAMMERS or on those paying for the priviledge of being spammed. When the system gets to its breaking point, someone is again going to suggest a payment scheme for email, one that effectively denies the spammers emails, but allows free (both kinds) (or very low cost) email to the masses.
I think I have just a solution. Email Broker Tokens.
When Email accounts are created, the creator is granted a number of tokens along with the service he is paying for. These Tokens are then attached as part of the email being sent, and are collected by the recipient, who adds these tokens to his account. For each email sent, a token is exchanged with the recipient who then has tokens to use for further emails.
Since the "net" usage for MOST people is, on average, even, this system will work for "most" situations. Those people who legitimately need to send more can buy them from their provider, or buy them on the open market, from people collecting excess tokens.
This exchange system will effectively reduce all spam to semi legitimate commecial email. The quick rich V14gr4 / C14li5 and nigerian / lottery scams will be left high and dry. They will then have to pay to send email.
I realize that this is going to require a entire overhaul of the email system as we have it today, but that also provides a side benifit eliminating zombied SMTP servers on Windoze boxen. At some point, the system is going to break under the load. Might as well start planning for it.
"as well as how it works incorrectly (like deja vu)"
Excuse me? How do you know that Deja Vu is the brain working "incorrectly". It might be in fact working "too well". Mostly, your view can be summed up as "assumption based on world view", meaning you can't fathom why that should be the designed feature set, so it must be "wrong".
The point being, is that defining things concretely enough to establish what they are, isn't as easy as it might seem. Is playing rock music at 95 db, torture? How about Britney? Depends on who you ask, doesn't it. How about being "tickled"? Is that counted as "pain"? How about being tickeled till it hurts? When does mear discomfort cross the line into torture? Deliberate discomfort = torture? My parents and half my teachers in school would be guilty under that logic.
"Yes, it obviously is and the person who is going to subjected to it should have the say."
AHHHH, Torture!!!! Your posts torture me. So much pain AGGGHHHH. You support torture!!!!!!
See, all of a sudden your overly simplistic statement is proven wrong. What is torture depends on who is defining it. To me, your overly simplistic statements are torture, and according to you, I get to decide what is, and what isn't torture, so you are committing torture.:-D I bet now, you are gonna say "that's rediculous" or something like that, saying it isn't really torture. How do you know, did you ask me????
"No one who hasn't been through it knows and it is better to not do something that might be torture than to torture people while saying, maybe it isn't really torture."
Huh? Again, go back to my example in this post. I claim "torture" you claim it is not, who gets to decide. In this case, according to you, I would get to decide. What is "torture" to me, may not be "torture" to you. This is the same arguement you are using, just twisted enough to make it truly rediculous to show the fallacy of your whole point.
Yup, torture is wrong. Defining it is harder than just saying it. Is waterboarding torture? Two opinions on this, which one is right, and who gets to decide? Why do they get to decide? Not so clear anymore, is it?
War monger? I hate war. But I hate Hitlers of the world MORE.
There is a choice, Chamberlain or Churchill. People called Churchill a war monger. Chamberlain came back with a piece of paper and it NEARLY cost Britain its soverignty.
I guess it is so much easier to call people names.
Slashdot Mirror
As if Democrats are clean as a wistle?
Yeah right.
So, which one of the government agencies blew up the twin towers?
Or was it the jews?
Or was it the Masons?
Or was it ______ ?
Which crackpot idea you gonna support?
Or was it the one where two planes flew into the buildings that caused them to collapse, within an hour (Never mind that they were designed NOT to collapse in this case).
Funny AND a predator for a combined mod of +1? It contains one or more of the following comments...
Natalie Portman
Hot Grits
Goat.cx
GNAA
Cowboy Neil
Badger Badger Badger has a Tune?
Badgers? We don't need no stinkin Badgers!
"Just take the above quotes and replace "Vietnam" with "Iraq" and "Charlie" with the insurgency and you have quotes that apply as much to this war as it did 'Nam"
.....
Hardly. And if you only care about dead soldiers and not dead anybody else, or if you only care about US killed civilians and not terrorist killed civillians or
The conflict in Iraq is NOTHING like 'Nam, unless you are a peace and surrender at any cost type. You remember Chamberlain? ("I have a piece of paper")
The people we are fighting against, the Islamofacists don't care about anything the Cindy Sheehans of the world care about. They will kill her just as soon as she is done being useful to them.
They don't care about about political correctness or rights or anything of value to most of us. I think the war has already been lost, and making "nice" with them doesn't get anyone anywhere.
You don't live in California, do you? Democrats control everything and get away with everything republicans get away with elsewhere. Republicrats and Demicans. I can't tell the difference sometimes.
I am LIBERTARIAN, so I have no problems bashing Republicrats and Demicans.
....
But as for VOTING scandals, why is it that all of the problem votes occur in DEMOCRATICALLY controlled districts / counties ??????
Oh, and lets not compare numbers, or simply forget the latest 100K in the freezer, striking police officers, drunk driving, check kiting
Corruption? BOTH sides are inherently corrupt, because the system, as it currently sits requires it. I think our country would be INHERENTLY more stable if we had part time legislatures everywhere. Meet one month per quarter, four months a year. Require them to have REAL jobs, and not be PROFESSIONAL politicians.
Professional politics is a recipie for corruption. The system is rigged!
You forgot ...
"okay, I lied to the grand jury" - Bill Clinton
Indeed. I know that most "internet" companies don't realize what "industry" they are in. They think they are in the "internet" business, and that is quite short sighted. It reminds me of the old comment made by a Railroad Magnate, who said ... "We are in the Railroad Business". While that may be true, that is NOT what business he was in, he was in "Trasportation". And had he realized what business he was REALLY in, the whole paradigm would have changed, and our current view of moving things from point A to point B would have changed.
/. and wikipedia and such are just variations on this theme, even as is MySpace and Youtube are as well. So, when I see a survey, such as this one, I realize that the survey taker doesn't have a clue about what he is actually surveying.
... profound.
Getting back to the Internet, it is NOTHING but "communication". In fact the whole OSI model is predicated on communication. This has melded with computers which are nothing more than information processing systems, but have evolved beyond information processing to communication facilitation systems for information (processed or raw).
The idea of
Using the Railroad analogy, it is if the survey was asking about Box Cars and Pullman Sleepers, and discovering that people tend to use Pullman Sleepers rather than Box Cars to travel in, and thinking that it was some how
No, it isn't profound, it is natural segmentation according to needs. Box cars are needed, and will never disappear, but so too are Pullman Cars. Each are more specialized than before. What you are seeing is the specialization of the media, nothing more, so don't worry about Slashdot or the Web, it will still be there.
It sure identifies Zombies .....
"Hi, I can't send email anymore, it says that I am out of tokens, I don't send that many emails to be out of tokens yet"
Zombie Identified.
and it gives the spammers an incentive to increase the number of bots they've got,
Like they need incentives.
Now, if the tokens were tied to and usable by only one person, that'd identify the spam sources. But then the tokens couldn't be used by the recipient as proposed.
I like this idea, but it would still work, as tokens are virtual, so I don't see the limitations you suggest. I can think of a couple of ways that tokens can be used for authentication as well. I would expect privacy advocates to come up with a reason why this is a bad idea, and perhaps provide sufficient measures to insure reasonable privacy.
But as long as new tokens are available from incoming spam, the outgoing spam can continue.
There would be all sorts of adequate ways to prevent this, like escrow. But now, instead of people raising their hands in dispair, we would have legal (criminal and tort) laws already available for prosecution of spammers, namely laws against stealing.
It'll only stop when the user makes the connection between his inability to send e-mail and the malware on his PC sending out spam, but if the lusers could manage that we wouldn't have these massive botnets in the first place.
THAT, my friend is the crux of the whole issue. My plan establishes levels of responsibility and identifies were potential problems are, and allow the holes in the current system to be plugged. Joe Luser will have to fix his problems and/or pay for tokens to keep his machine a spambot.
This is a problem .... why???
I would think identifying Zombies would be part of the solution.
[quote]Then (assuming folks protect their private keys) no one can spoof another.[/quote]
Assumption is the mother of all FUBARS.
"Hi, this is Archangel, your system admin, can you give me your private key you use to sign email, I need it to configure your email on our new server. Thank you"
Men have been trying to remedy their .... shortcomings, using all sorts of interesting ways. What is funny is that the same people popping Viagra and Cialis or that thing "BOB" is selling, are the same people who laugh at the chinese poping bear gall bladders or whatever for exactly the same reason.
The US pharmakia (greek for witchcraft) companies realized that there was an huge untapped market for "male enhancement" products.
Oh, it is easy to knock something that is spelled out, especially while not offering any solution of your own. Or perhaps you don't mind sifting the 535 junk emails sitting in your spam folder waiting to find the one that is legit.
Your view is simply that there is NO solution, so don't bother trying. Meanwhile I waste my time ($), money ($) and resources ($) having to deal with Spam. So, what is your brilliant suggestion? Wait until the system breaks?
You must be a spammer, because anything that breaks the status quo, you are against for one of the reasons listed in your stupid checkbox. My favorite is "Sorry Dude, But I don't think it will work". My response is "sorry dude, but you are an idiot and I don't care what idiots think".
Nice try, spammer.
I see the war of SPAM as an escallation war. Each side escallates its response to the other sides latest counter move. At some point, the system is gonna break, and we haven't quite reached that point.
......
The real problem with SPAM is what I call "hidden costs" associated with it: the extra bandwidth, the cost of increasing filtering technology, the labor costs, oppotunity costs due to filtered legit emails
Only real pain is going to stop SPAM. Pain on the SPAMMERS or on those paying for the priviledge of being spammed. When the system gets to its breaking point, someone is again going to suggest a payment scheme for email, one that effectively denies the spammers emails, but allows free (both kinds) (or very low cost) email to the masses.
I think I have just a solution. Email Broker Tokens.
When Email accounts are created, the creator is granted a number of tokens along with the service he is paying for. These Tokens are then attached as part of the email being sent, and are collected by the recipient, who adds these tokens to his account. For each email sent, a token is exchanged with the recipient who then has tokens to use for further emails.
Since the "net" usage for MOST people is, on average, even, this system will work for "most" situations. Those people who legitimately need to send more can buy them from their provider, or buy them on the open market, from people collecting excess tokens.
This exchange system will effectively reduce all spam to semi legitimate commecial email. The quick rich V14gr4 / C14li5 and nigerian / lottery scams will be left high and dry. They will then have to pay to send email.
I realize that this is going to require a entire overhaul of the email system as we have it today, but that also provides a side benifit eliminating zombied SMTP servers on Windoze boxen. At some point, the system is going to break under the load. Might as well start planning for it.
I for one, welcome #($#&%$&# NO CARRIER
He wasn't speaking of Physical Stature, but rather Mental.
5 ???
6 PROFIT
(someone had to do it)
"as well as how it works incorrectly (like deja vu)"
Excuse me? How do you know that Deja Vu is the brain working "incorrectly". It might be in fact working "too well". Mostly, your view can be summed up as "assumption based on world view", meaning you can't fathom why that should be the designed feature set, so it must be "wrong".
"anguish: extreme mental distress"
.....
Now Define Extreme and Distress
"unbearable physical pain"
Now, define Unbearable and pain
The point being, is that defining things concretely enough to establish what they are, isn't as easy as it might seem. Is playing rock music at 95 db, torture? How about Britney? Depends on who you ask, doesn't it. How about being "tickled"? Is that counted as "pain"? How about being tickeled till it hurts? When does mear discomfort cross the line into torture? Deliberate discomfort = torture? My parents and half my teachers in school would be guilty under that logic.
More like "Hulkamaniacs"
"Yes, it obviously is and the person who is going to subjected to it should have the say."
:-D I bet now, you are gonna say "that's rediculous" or something like that, saying it isn't really torture. How do you know, did you ask me????
;-)
AHHHH, Torture!!!! Your posts torture me. So much pain AGGGHHHH. You support torture!!!!!!
See, all of a sudden your overly simplistic statement is proven wrong. What is torture depends on who is defining it. To me, your overly simplistic statements are torture, and according to you, I get to decide what is, and what isn't torture, so you are committing torture.
"No one who hasn't been through it knows and it is better to not do something that might be torture than to torture people while saying, maybe it isn't really torture."
Huh? Again, go back to my example in this post. I claim "torture" you claim it is not, who gets to decide. In this case, according to you, I would get to decide. What is "torture" to me, may not be "torture" to you. This is the same arguement you are using, just twisted enough to make it truly rediculous to show the fallacy of your whole point.
"Yeah, actually it is."
You support torture! Okay got it.
"Ah, the Hitler card:"
Yes, the "Hitler card" as in the "all jews must die" mentality coming from Iran's Hitler, or did you not hear that from the Iranian President?
"Torture is wrong"
Yup, torture is wrong. Defining it is harder than just saying it. Is waterboarding torture? Two opinions on this, which one is right, and who gets to decide? Why do they get to decide? Not so clear anymore, is it?
War monger? I hate war. But I hate Hitlers of the world MORE.
There is a choice, Chamberlain or Churchill. People called Churchill a war monger. Chamberlain came back with a piece of paper and it NEARLY cost Britain its soverignty.
I guess it is so much easier to call people names.