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Deja Vu Recreated in a Lab Setting
esocid writes writes to tell us BBC News is reporting that scientists may have found a way to study deja vu, that uneasy feeling you have seen something before. Using hypnosis, scientists claim to be able to incorrectly trigger the portion of the brain responsible for recognition of something familiar. From the article: "Two key processes are thought to occur when someone recognizes a familiar object or scene. First, the brain searches through memory traces to see if the contents of that scene have been observed before. If they have, a separate part of the brain then identifies the scene or object as being familiar. In deja vu, this second process may occur by mistake, so that a feeling of familiarity is triggered by a novel object or scene."
Welcome to The Matrix v0.0001 (unstable alpha)
I've seen this story before.
I think I read this before...
Oh wait... Never mind. My bad.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
I used to suffer with Deja-Vu years ago, but after awhile, it stopped happening to me. Bizarre.
And here all this time I thought that persistent recurrent deja vu was an indication of my latent psychic powers.
I used to carry a bottle of whiskey for snake bite. And two snakes. -Nefarious Wheel
Good to know! Now maybe they can get to work on those other trifling brain disorders like Alzheimer's, Mad Cow disease--you know the minor ones that don't mean anything.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Scientists have officially ran out of things to study
All that work - and all they had to do was read Slashdot headlines for a few weeks.
*rimshot*
-- Trinity in high heels carrying a whip: The donimatrix - there is no spoonerism
Or am I just having deja vu?
Deja Vu isn't the Matrix resetting itself?
all over again..
Seriously though, as soon as I read the line "using hypnosis in a laboratory" the plausible-interest part of my brain shut off and my eyes glazed over. Recreate THAT in a laboratory.
but how can these scientists claim to have recreated a feeling? Sure they can measure brain activity and the like. But deja vu is more than just recognition of a "familiar" item or setting.
Forget Deja Vu, we must study Vuja De. The strange feeling that somehow, none of this has ever happened before. That one REALLY creeps me out.
Much love to George Carlin
I never spellcheck and I freely admit it. Save your karma for more worthwhile "lol erorrs" replies
A deja vu is usually a glitch in the Matrix. It happens when they change something...
You can't handle the truth.
i'm sure reading slashdot on daily basis can consistently reproduce deja vu sensations
it is me
Research is research. Understanding how the brain works is vital in progressing the state of the art. We will only be able to find a cure for Alzheimer's or MCD by pure luck unless we also happen to have a decent understanding of how the brain works. Science is not at all directed, as most people imagine, but much more like evolution; a hundred million different approaches all aiming for different goals, filtered through successful applications, and then repeated all over again.
Who knows but maybe the cure to Alzheimer's is FOUND because we understand how the brain triggers recall, which is touched upon when deja vu is wrongly invoked?
GPL Deconstructed
Total case of deja vu: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19125614.400 -d%E9j%E0-vu-created-in-the-lab.html
I wonder if the scientists know that they have studied this before, or if they are just getting that "uneasy feeling"
I read once a while back that deja vu was caused by the brain processing visual data from one eye marginally faster than from the other. This seems like a logical theory to me, but I am not a neurologist. Has anyone else heard of this?
Why can't they just let us go on thinking that Deja Vu MEANS something profound, rather than just a brain mistake. Life is more fun that way.
Deja Vu Recreated in a Lab Setting
Want to test an experimental interface for comments?
nuff said...
This guy's the limit!
I'll just wait until my victims are in front of the billboard advertising McDonalds burgers and then blow them into kibbles. A few well placed meaty chunkss and perhaps a little arterial spray near the picture of some dude chomping on a burger should add to the overall effect of the ad, no?
In deja vu, this second process may occur by mistake, so that a feeling of familiarity is triggered by a novel object
You mean like when I see a copy of Dune on my book shelf? That's odd that only a novel object triggers this reaction. I would think that albums and DVDs might do the same thing.
They're just causing more glitches in the matrix. Great job drawing attention to yourselves, retards. It's almost as if you want the agents to kill you.
When I was much younger, I used to experiment with certain substances.
One particular substance always made it seem like things had happened before - like I was experiencing something in real life that I had dreamt about before and it was very weird/scary. I'm guessing that it was causing the portion of my brain responsible for identifying familiar things to trigger (as mentioned in the article).
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
To demonstrate...
"Using hypnosis, scientists..."
I rest my case.
Damn thing skipped from the "Billboards" article to this one. Sort for the mispost :-(
Just kidding. It didn't.
I think they need to first convince me about the validity of hypnosis before they start drawing scientific conclusions from using it.
In deja vu, this second process may occur by mistake, so that a feeling of familiarity is triggered by a novel object or scene.
Or there is an alteration in the Matrix...
Any fool can talk, but it takes a wise man to listen.
Why bother recreating deja vu in the laboratory? Are they too cheap to pay the cover charge?
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
That's the feeling that you will be reading the exact same article tomorrow.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
The experiment begins with awakening from sleep, after which subjects turn on some music to start their day. Eventually, subjects "lose themselves" in a familiar song, close their eyes, and slip away.
Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
They needed to reproduce their results!
This was previously reported by another British group here: .
Scientists Reproduce Deja Vu in controlled environment. In other news: Applicable bugzilla entry for the Matrix status changed to "minor"
Deja foobar - the feeling of having made the same mistake before.
I used to suffer with Deja-Vu years ago, but after awhile, it stopped happening to me. Bizarre.
Whoa
The claim here is that the sensation of Deja Vu is the same sensation as our everyday recognizing-something-familiar sense. The thing is, Deja Vu is that 'weird', 'erie' feeling that you get when you see something you think you have seen before. I don't get that same weird, erie feeling when I wake up in my familiar room, or hop into my familiar car.
Maybe the model could be modified a little. In my understanding, the feeling of Deja Vu is its own feeling, not the regular, everyday familiarity feeling.
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
-- Pablo Picasso
wait they built a strip club in there lab ? cool... :)
Tonight on "It's the Mind", we examine the phenomenon of déjà vu. That strange feeling we sometimes get that we've lived... through something before, that what is happening now has... already... happened?
*runs*
As I read TFA, it suddenly dawned upon me: I had never seen this story before!
Mr. T pitied this fool on 27 July 1992.
if something like this could be used to help one who suffers from social anxiety? According to TFA, the part of the brain that triggers deja vu is responsible for one feeling "familiar" with their environment. Maybe something like this could be used to cure the "jitters" from an unfamiliar social situation or a first date?
Ride the skies
I realise the importance of such studies, but isn't hypnosis itself a questionable science?
The current studies done on the subject of hypnosis are inconsistant, and provide no real answers to it's existence.
Two highly dodgy sources from google show how much dispute about the subject there really is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnosis
http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/hypnos93.html
Therefore I find the study questionable as to it's scientific merit.
I could be wrong. Please tell me if I am.
B
Signature v3.0, now with 42% less memory usage.
I read once that deja vu can occur when the messages from each eye are handled by the brain out of synchronisation. First the image from one eye is processed, processed and stored in the brain, then a millisecond or so later, the brain starts to process the image from the other idea, and finds that it has already an exact copy of the same image in memory. You then get a sudden and very powerful feeling of having already seen the location before, because you just have seen it a millisecond ago!
Usually the brain is able to pair up the two images as being the same, but an occasional glitch can happen. Taking drugs or being tired might increase the chance of these glitches. Of course it would be possible to test this theory (it is falsifiable, unlike most other theories for deja vu) by seeing if people with only one eye get deja vu as frequently as people with two eyes.
I have no evidence that this theory is true, but it sounds plausible and I think the truth could be close to this explanation.
I'll probably be modded down for this...
Unless I misread TFA, they presented the subjects with framed words that they had not seen before, then some subjects stated that the unfamiliar word elicited a perculiar "sensation" and a smaller set of the subjects said it felt like deja vu.
It's right there in the article, left to right, words and sentence.
... how will we know when the Agents change something???
Have you ever felt the sensation (i.e., deja vu) start, then while you're telling someone, "Hey, this has happened before," you start feeling like you've had this same episode of deja vu before. You end up in a tail recursion of deja vu about deja vu about deja vu... I'm sure it has never happened to me, because I'm still sane. Just wondering if it's happened to you...hmmm?
Hypnosis? A sample size of 18 people with only 10 experiencing the feeling? They haven't created anything but much ado about nothing.
Wake me when 38 people out of 40 experience it without any persuasion.
You are checking your backups, aren't you?
Just what we need - a pill that turns someone into a know-it-all.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
This sounds badly blinded: the same people self-reporting deja vu are also being told what to feel. In theory they aren't consciously recalling what they were told under hypnosis, but I didn't see a control to demonstrate that.
In the end, this result isn't important in itself ("Look, we can recreate deja vu in a lab") but rather the tool it provides for further research, being able to generate deja vu on demand without electro-zapping the brain. If that makes other experiments possible, to understand how memories are stored and recalled using this as a kind of mental stick to poke at the brain, that's an interesting result.
But that result has a caveat that this isn't necessarily identical to real deja vu, might be a completely different phenonmenon, and may simply be research subjects telling experimenters what they want to hear.
Seriously though, as soon as I read the line "using hypnosis in a laboratory" the plausible-interest part of my brain shut off and my eyes glazed over. Recreate THAT in a laboratory.
My thoughts exactly. Since when did data gathered from hynposis or 'hypnotised' patients make its way into the lab? Even hypnotists admit that the discipline involves suggestion. Subjects' responses are usually compatible with the expectations of those around them - the data is tainted. Find a biochemical way of triggering a neurological deja-vu response and I'm interested.
From the article:
The Leeds team set out to create a sense of deja vu among volunteers in a lab.
They used hypnosis to trigger only the second part of the recognition process - hoping to create a sense of familiarity about something a person had not seen before.
The researchers showed volunteers 24 common words, then hypnotised them and told them that when they were next presented with a word in a red frame, they would feel that the word was familiar, although they would not know when they last saw it.
Green frames would make them think that the word belonged to the original list of 24.
After being taken out of hypnosis, the volunteers were presented with a series of words in frames of various colours, including some that were not in the original 24 and which were framed in red or green.
Of the 18 people studied so far, 10 reported a peculiar sensation when they saw new words in red frames and five said it definitely felt like deja vu.
I suppose science - or at least its standards - must have changed a lot since I was in school.
Technically, no post on this article should be "Redundant."
Trying to resist the urge to make yet another bad Deja Vu joke, I offer up this question: Has anyone ever had something like Deja Vu, but where they feel familiarity of an event or situation, not from a memory of real life, but that it occurred in a dream that they can't quite remember? I get this sometimes, and it's much creepier (IMHO).
So... people were hypnotized and told that certain things they hadn't seen before would look familiar. Then, when they saw those objects, they felt like they'd seen them before... Just what is this supposed to prove, other than the hypothesis that hypnosis works?
Scientists knew the basics of Deja Vu, including how to stimulate it electrically, back in 1959 (Mullan).
Reduce, reuse, cycle
Fortunately, deja vu can be (and is) being explained by science. I hope we don't get an influx of pseudoscientific theories like we did with the recent telepathy/esp article...
it's a blue bright blue Saturday hey hey
Well, it worked for me, anyway...
-- Trinity in high heels carrying a whip: The donimatrix - there is no spoonerism
Just the other day...
> Jul 25 04:11:11 blah UDBH Syndrome 0xb6 Memory Module Board 3 J3801
> Jul 25 04:11:11 blah SUNW,UltraSPARC-II: [ID 436398 kern.info] [AFT0] errID 0x000a3f92.c551de55 ECC Data Bit 30 was in error and corrected
> Jul 25 04:11:11 blah SUNW,UltraSPARC-II: [ID 858871 kern.info] [AFT0] errID 0x000a3f92.c551de55 Corrected Memory Error on Board 3 J3801 is Persistent
> Jul 25 04:11:11 blah SUNW,UltraSPARC-II: [ID 888460 kern.info] [AFT0] Corrected Memory Error detected by CPU10, errID 0x000a3f92.c551de55
As the hardware gets older these errors become more frequent. Leftover form the dot-com boom days, they can be safely ignored, and one just keeps on drinking.
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
Deja Vu is nothing.
It's generating a redundant loop that's the fun part.
"Wait, I rememeber this... and this... and this... and this..."
Those who believe the Internet is private,
find their privates are on the Internet.
Hypnosis is about as trivial as theories on psychic ability. How could they possibly find a relation between these two phenomenons? Also, were these people notified that they'd be participating in a study pertaining to Deja vu? Not much information in this article.
One very good explanation for Deja Vu that I learned in my college psychology class was this:
When you see something normally, data is sent to and stored in your brain's hippocampus. However, on some occasions for reasons unknown, your hippocampus "mis-fires" and stores the memory and recalls it at the same time. In most if not all cases, you have not seen what you saw before, but rather it appears so because your brain stored and recalled the memory at the same time.
Eh.. for what it's worth...
With this in mind - can it be that people who think they have a special ability actually have an over-active familiarity complex?
www.wildpad.com
Everyone knows that dejavu goes beyond just a simple object but can cover hours of experience. Not only that, but if you've ever experienced it you can completely recount everything that is going to happen just before it happens. I don't think it's psychic though. I think it has something to do with your consciousness readjusting to a timeline shift. Considering that the metaverse is made up of an infinite number of universes that take every possibility into account and our consciousnesses are just reading through the data in a non-linear fashion, it's easy to see how a slight difference in one timeline can result in a little synchronization problem when you jump from one line to another. Don't believe me? Try it yourself. Focus on one particular small aspect of your reality and think of how it could be slightly different. With some practice you can control your read through the metaverse timelines and forcibly jump from one to the next. The article and the research commented on therein is either a misunderstanding on the part of the researchers or deliberate obfuscation to keep a larger part of the population from controlling their timeline reads. Now... off to Tralfamador to spend a little time with Montana Wildhack. Rowr!!!
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
I always remember remembering that same situation happening exactly how it happens, even to the point of remembering that I had déjà vù in the experience I falsely remember. Anyone else have that happen?
I make websites and stuff. Buy one.
Naw man... it's cuz I've been there in a past life.
Really... these "scientists" sometimes. heh...
Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
Hey, where'd all these guys in black suits come frOH SHI-CONNECTION TERMINATED
It's also been described as a short circuit between short-term-store (the sort of memory used to get the phone number from the book to the keypad) and long term memory. That's a description and block-diagram explanation, but it's nice to see that they can control it and get beyond this understanding.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
I had it all the time when I was a child up through college. Specifically, I had the form where I was convinced that I had had a dream about the events beforehand, in a very specific format. I would even wake up some mornings convinced that I'd just had such a dream and forget it all within minutes.
The last major time was when a friend from my hometown was visiting me at college, and we went out to eat with neighbors in my dorm. I remember having felt when I'd "previously had the dream" that the strange combination of two of my friends that I figured would never meet while eating at a large table with a red & white checkered tablecloth with a houseplant behind the friend from home was such an odd combination "when I woke up."
Convinced I was having precognitive dreams (or that I was having a very difficult to prove/disprove hallucination), I began a dream journal. I only kept it up for a few weeks, but I haven't had a single moment of deja vu since then. I think concentrating on the problem made it go away. (More mystical types than myself would probably come to the conclusion that the gift left me for questioning it.)
Alternately, it could've just gone away with age, and the whole timing of it was coincidence.
I just read somewhere recently that deja vu is your mind blacking out for a millisecond.
You think you saw the image before due to this blackout, I think.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Interesting how they are using hypnosis to do these experiments... I mean I'd think understanding hypnosis first would tell a lot more about the brain than just the deja vu bit. I mean, who didn't already know Deja vu was when you THOUGHT you saw something before and you didn't. HELLO! That's the definition of it! They haven't actually discovered anything from what I the article mentioned.
Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
Deja vu is just a hash collision in the brain. There is no mystery. There are no "glitches in the matrix" required. No magic needed. No unusual mental processes at work. It's just a hash collision in your recall system. Not that our brains use hashing per se, but just to put it into lay terms. Lay terms around here, at any rate.
Music speeds up when you yawn, but does not change pitch.
They're great fonts, but they're under the GPL, so the scientists could have just downloaded them ?:(
_ Page
http://dejavu.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main
From TFA: "Researcher Akira O'Connor presented the findings to an International Conference on Memory in Sydney, Australia."
Let me get this straight: someone named "Akira" is futzing with mind powers?
And very poorly understood ones (dejaa vu & hypnosis) at that?
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
They are also major signs that the person is experiencing a simple partial seizure caused by temporal lobe epilepsy. TLE is well associated with both mysticism and artistic talent and is not just a sign of senility.
Even people without TLE can have deja vu. About 70% of the population claims to have experienced deja vu at some point in their life.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Good evening.
Tonight, on "It's the Mind", we examine the phenomenon of déjà vu. That strange feeling we sometimes get that we've lived through something before, that what is happening now has already happened tonight, on "It's the Mind", we examine the phenomenon of déjà vu, that strange feeling we sometimes get that we've...
Anyway, tonight on "It's the Mind" we examine the phenomenon of déjà vu, that strange...
http://orangecow.org/pythonet/sketches/dejavu.htm
RMN
~~~
they've got it all wrong - deja vu occurs when the Matrix changes something...
Yes, and by learning seemingly stupid and trivial things like this, it ultimately will pave the way towards a greater understanding of the brain that will allow them to eventually figure out how and why those disorders affect people.
"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." - Confucius
If you put hypnosis in it, you can get someone to do ANYTHING.
If such a technique is used, the research has no meaning.
Read radical news here
Oh wait...
With a few easily acquired psychedelics and a television, one can easily recreate the feeling of deja vu in the comfort of one's own home.
where you walk into a room and think "hey, I've never been here before!"
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
It's just a data collision. In my job working for a cab company I answer the phones. If I get a call for a cab at the same place twice in a day I double check it to make sure I'm not making a duplicate or something that will conflict.
I don't see why this is so amazing, you are just putting two and two together.
IMAGE VERIFICATION IS EVIL!
Yes, I have had this feeling, several times.
... trust me, that was a bit of a shock.
I also have an infrequent habit of writing down dreams.
I've written down a dream, and then experienced it some time later.
So yeah, I've had that. Except not in a vague sort of way, but rather in a very direct, "I know I've dreamed this," sort of way. It's always a 2-5 second slice, and I never really remember before or after. The dream can involve people and places I've never known, but when it shows up in my reality, it's perfect to every (observable) detail.
The first time a dream became reality, I was teaching a VB (ech) class to two people. The hotel had redone the carpet between the time of my dream and the time of reality, but my dream had the new carpet. I dreamed the people, their clothes, their attitude, the computer setup, my material, what I was saying
cej102937
at least for me the deja Vu feeling is also followed by knowing exactely what's to come, like say in a conversation, what the other person is just about to say to you. And no, the wife don't count on that experiment :)
Since when did we start believing in hypnosis? Is there any evidence (published in peer-reviewed journals and the like) that hypnotic suggestion even works?
The Farewell Tour II
I have experienced several "déjà vu" moments over the years, but was usually able to explain them away, expect for this one:
When I was in my late teens, my dad and I were on the road when we stopped at a by-the-freeway diner, where I knew I could never have visited or seen in the past (due to it's location), yet, as I got out of the vehicle, I got the clear impression that I'd seen that building before. (Features such as the roof, some ornements, and the layout of the parking lot stood out as though they were not new.)
Now so far this would fit the "déjà vu" experience as described (in the summary/article), as in, it was just a part of my brain that was having fun with me, however, with this impression of the familair also came the clear knowledge of where I would find the washrooms once inside, which could not be deduced from the outside.
Can such an episode last long enough for me to "recognize" all this while I walked, perhaps two or three whole minutes?
William James wrote about deja vu experience over a century ago and cognitive psychologists have been studying the phenomenon for over 20 years. Researchers like Larry Jacobs at NYU have done fascinating work on the topic as a means to develop theoretical models of human recognition memory, formally known as dual-process models of recognition. This isn't exactly ground breaking research, but it is important in adding to the experimental corpus of knowledge about familiarity and recognition based memory systems; although the models may not be ameliorative, they do have import in understanding normal aging memory decline as well as abnormal memory impairments such as Alzheimer's disease.
Ohhhh.... you will recognize this object.
Look he did!
You can pretend to know an object. Deja Vu is an extremely specific thing. It's like a write read error in the brain. Usually you see an object or scene and the brain checks for it, finds nothing, and then writes it. In a Deja Vu event it gets written and read right there. So it seems like you've seen it before, even though it actualy is the same event. How that happens is outside the realm of telling people to act like their shoe is a dog.
It is no longer uncommon to be uncommon.
I used to have psycho-motor epilesy, caused by a brain tumor in the Right Temporal Lobe. I had an operation in 1990 to remove the tumor.
My warning signal to the start of a seizure was a very intense feeling of Deja Vu. My stomach would flutter & knot up, my mouth would salivate, and it had the same physical intensity of a sexual orgasam. This sensation would last perhaps half of a second, I would then have my seizure.
Since the operation I have not experienced any Deja Vu sensations.
"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
A deja vu is usually a glitch in the Matrix. It happens when they change something...
There was a time where I experienced that Déjà vu feeling quite often, so often, in fact, that I was able to determine what caused it - at least I think so. Here it is --- gas or flatulence --- or more precisely the build-up of gas pressure on my spine or some nerves leading to the brain? Seriously -- I know this, when I felt that Déjà vu feeling I could make a sure bet that a BM was close.
Talk amongst yourselves...
I have the strangest feeling I've been modded down before. I think doctors call it Deja Mod.
It's just a glitch from when they change something in the programming, that's all
I can see this being used in advertising to make people more comfortable with a new product. Kind of spooky to think about. Again. Wait, no, I haven't seen that before.
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
Wow, this whole time, I just thought it was a glitch in the Matrix.
From the post: "Using hypnosis, scientists claim to be able to incorrectly trigger the portion of the brain responsible for recognition of something familiar." I'm pretty sure I've seen this kind of grammatical faux pas on /. before...
I used to experience deja vous on a somewhat regular basis (once a month or so). I found that when I was highschool/college, it increased in length (from a fraction of a second to 1-2 seconds). At that point it occured more frequently as well (several times a week).
The freaky part happened when I realized I could make very quick mental predictions of what would happen. At its peak, my longest deja vous was about 10 seconds into the future. At some point, I realized I was also somewhat aware of what my part was supposed to be and found that I could change my actions and make the expected thing not occur. After "changing the future" a few times by not acting according to my "vision" (a poor word, since the affect covered all my senses), the frequency of deja vous dropped to almost zero.
I don't think deja vous can be wholly explained by malfunctioning grey matter--too many people I know or have given strong evidence of visions and other phenominon. One of my supervisors in college took a course on dreaming at the university of minnesota, duluth in the late 90's and had some really weird things happen (e.g. passing assigned messages to other students in the class through dreams near the end of a single summer class). Don't get me wrong-I think most of those phsycic hotlines a bunch of baloney, but as a scientist, I can't just reject evidence that doesn't match my picture of the world; I need to keep an open mind or risk becoming like those who ridiculed Da Vinci for saying the earth went around the sun.
science is a religion
100s of brilliant scientists... And 3 stupid ones.
E-6500? I used to get these errors when it was brand new.
-- Thou hast strayed far from the path of the Avatar.
I'm not trusting any study that uses hypnosis as a "lab" test.
Oh.. Around here, Deja Vu is a local gentlemans club. About time they recreated it in a lab setting...
But I've met people who were convinced it was some kind of mystical supernatural experience. I wonder what they'd say if they found out that the experience can now be reproduced at will in a lab.
I also wonder how people who believe that consciousness exists in some spooky realm outside the body manage to explain the effects of alcohol or the sudden personality shifts and loss of mental abilities that sometimes result from head trauma, but that's a (slightly) different topic.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A675308
If they can "incorrectly trigger" this "second process", I wonder if the Deja Vu feeling could someday be intensified to trick people into believing they have actually seen something or been somewhere before.... instead of just thinking, "Weird, I just had Deja Vu."
Obviously this does wonders for one's spelling and grammer - and this from me, not exactly famed for my spelling.
I sort of agree with you? but I'm... ummm... a little less fanatical.
Yes, many things in this world are unhealthy, and it pisses me off that even when I'm careful, I still have to breath it all in the form of other people's car fumes, hair products, calones, and drink it in the form of tap water with (quite literally) bleach in it (which to your point breaks down into carcinigenic dioxins).
At the same time, I feel that it is a good thing to try and live in more clustered environments instead of just running away to the woods (as I would wish too), since this helps to focus our crap and leave a few environments for later. As an added bonus I can convince other's of the woes of current comercialism and actually do some good work in academia by staying inside of the system. People who eat such trash are arguably "stupid" or "lazy", but some may just have other goals in mind, making the world better in other ways for other people. Unfortunatly there are too many problems in this world for any one person too focus on them all.
Most of all... seriously, just chill dude.
Dont these researchers know anything? A deja vu is a glitch in the matrix.
http://www.cushingproductions.com
What do you think of the notion that the deja vu is caused by a real life experience that is similar to a dream?
It would explain a few things. This happened to me once.
If they have, a separate part of the brain then identifies the scene or object as being familiar.
In deja vu, this second process may occur by mistake, so that a feeling of familiarity is triggered by a novel object or scene.
But what if we only think this is done by mistake but in fact there is no mistake at all? Impressions don't always happen by merely experiencing something in real life, there is also the possibility of dreaming about something. A lot of people don't remember their dreams, so what if they dreamt about a certain event before living it? That would then also trigger identification but because people don't remember their dream it feels awkward.
What you'll come to find out (through multiple experiences) is that the deja-vu, when it happens, doesn't have a defined cue to attach itself to.
:-/
For some reason the seen-before-search area gets triggered and it happens without context.
So whatever you were thinking about (the last 3 minutes of conversation, a scene that occured, a song you were trying to remember) will seem familiar overall.
But as soon as you conciously try to pick it apart or take each piece in context, the feeling goes away.
Usually the sensation is triggered by external stimuli that arrive in the brain with a time skew that prevents them from being correlated. This triggers the seen-before paths but since it isn't memory-retrieval the sensation is not attached to the stimuli but whatever you are currently thinking or focusing on.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Reading these posts just now, I had the strangest feeling I had done this before.
It's Deja vue. As in, "already seen". Not "Vous" as in "you".
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Galileo.
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I hadn't heard that specifically, but as explained in the interesting book The User Illusion: Cutting Consciousness Down to Size by Tor Norretranders, in the 1970s psychologist Benjamin Libet showed that there is a lag of roughly half a second between unconscious and conscious perception. Our brains don't sense any lag, though, because we automatically antedate the experience of our sensory inputs, pushing it a half-second into the past, and thus experiencing everything as "now" even though we are actually a half-second behind.
This could have something to do with the deja vu experience: something goes wrong in the brain, and we somehow sense that half-second lag in a way we normally don't. In other words, you did "see that before," but the "before" was only half a second ago!
Another thing we learn from that: the movies aren't lying when someone is blown up by a bomb or suffers some other quick death and another character says "They never knew what hit them." They don't feel the blast of the bomb that kills them because, if they are killed in less than half a second, their consciousness doesn't have time to experience it.
Q: What does the "B." in Benoit B. Mandelbrot stand for? A: Benoit B. Mandelbrot
When you have Deja Vu it's just a glitch in the Matrix. Don't worry you get over it after a while.
I alsays beleive whats on TV.
None of this passes the laugh test.
First of all, and perhaps most importantly, during a case of Deja Vu, you can remember what you're about to do next, and that is when I personally stop, and try to act entirely different to break it up. I don't know why, but I suspect it might have something to do with the fact that humans are just naturally predictable, and over several years will eventually do some things *exactly* as they have before.
Second, hypnotizing someone means you can induce any "feeling" you want. Tell them to feel Deja Vu, and they will. I fail to see how this is a significant break through. Might as well hypnotize people, telling them to have alzheimers, and then say you've made a great alzheimers breakthrough... In other words, the power of suggestion isn't the same as the neurological effect.
But what do I know, I'm just your average dog who likes to chase frisbees...
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
BTW it's spelled "Déjà Vu"
This comment was written using 100% reused electrons.
Given the length of Deja Vu's I have experienced thus far, and my experience with the supernatural (laugh all you want f*ckers), I am led to believe you have seen it before - in dreams.
This would also tie in with some of the things some others here have posted. According to psychics, the future itself is a big ass mofo cloud of potential, and when you want something, you send psychic waves through the big mofo cloud.
Now when we are asleep we are the most vulnerable to 'impressions'. Your brain is more active when you are asleep that watching TV! Google it, it's a fact. I believe it is REM where you are the most receptive to 'visions'.
Some of mine have been downright spooky, right down to my new employment. I had a deja vu and I never, ever thought I would work there. And when I get the deja vu, I remember other fragments of whats going to come next, and what happened beforehand... and its hard to remember, much like a dream.
There was once a time I realized I was having deja vu, of a time when I had deja vu, and then I had deja vu. So the question is, how many times did I actually experience the event I was having deja vu about?
This might explain the typical Slashdotter's fear and apprehension of the patent system.
Although I never assume anyone will believe this, I'll weigh in.
Twice I've awoken from dream segments that had that "deja vu" quality, and I remembered them. Later, when they occurred in waking life, the events were unmistakably identical. Deja vu.
I have a theory about how it happens: past, present, and future all exist, and there is a part of existence (the oneness of all being) which is not dimensionally bound; it's that part of our own being that we use to get glimpses of the future (and also the past, but given our time vector that's not remarkable).
Retired from software... maybe. Sort of.
"betchyall'dunno'sup"
:)
With some transliteration:
I wager that of all of you, not one knows what is going on. Here.
Consciousness is a myth. Trust me.
Yeah.
You can stimulate bits of the brain and get all sorts of effects/feelings, but that doesn't mean those effects/feelings under normal circumstances have no basis in reality.
Just because they can hypnotize you to feel pain in your arm, doesn't mean that feeling pain in your arm is a malfunction of your brain.
Same with those experiments that stimulate the brain to cause a "sense of God" - it doesn't prove that there's no God or that its just some brain cells misfiring. In fact it is somewhat interesting that there would be such a "sense" on humans in the first place.
I am inclined to believe that most deja vu experiences are due to some bugginess in our brains - things going out of sync. Because I haven't seen anyone actually give out a valid prediction to others due to the deja vu. Doesn't have to be an immediately useful prediction. Could be just "Mr Xyz is going to call within the next 5 seconds".
I won't be surprised if humans have "prophetic" abilities.
Maybe we all have prophetic abilities (including animals), after all the first animal that accurately prophesied how it was going to eat another animal and when, would have had an evolutionary edge over that other animal. But after so many generations, the "free-will" + competing prophets results in most of us not being able to see the future clearly anymore.
One of the things I've always read/seen/heard/imagined was the following explanation:
Give the fact that people are either left-handed or right-handed, the left-eye or right-eye can send messages/images to the brain faster. When the other eye sends the information, the brain will think it's been seen before, as indeed it has.
Also, what was that Quote in Hudson Hawk? 'Veja-du'? Something you wish didn't happen?
Regards,
You don't need to see my
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
A solid sense of Deja Vu lets you actually know what is about to happen... not just a feeling.
Haven't any of you felt Deja Vu, and then you actually get to watch what is about to happen for the next 10-20 seconds? Perhaps someone walking into the room, a specific part of the conversation, etc...
This sig is the express property of someone.
I wonder when they will think that they proved the feeling of God is just some simulents in the brain in the lab.
I'm sorry, so they hypnotized people to think they had seen a word before, and that made half of them feel like they had seen the word before... and of the successfully hypnotized, only half of them reported that the familiarity felt like deja vu?? And this gets you in New Scientist magazine???
Meanwhile, there are real, hardworking, professional hypnotists out there, who go out every day and make people believe that they're chickens, and they don't hear a peep from New Scientist!
Oh yeah, in other news, scientists have recreated under laboratory conditions the pins-and-needles sensation some people experience when their foot goes to sleep by sticking test subjects in the foot with pins and needles. Nobel prizes are expected.
@HbFyo0$k8 tH!$
Thanks for the correction - not enough sleep lately.
science is a religion
@#*&! What do you @#*&ing mean I can't @#*&ing speak @#*&ing French!
;-)
What...did I just say that? Pardon my French
science is a religion
Close... It was Copernicus who first said the Earth revolves around the sun, not Galileo.
Physics is arguably the most advanced part of science, largely because it is so easy to test. As you go from hard sciences to softer ones, it become more fuzzy about what is fact and what is opinion (e.g. medicine). Pshycology and pshycatry(sp?) are arguably some of the fuzziest sciences because they have been so difficult to prove. Before we had the tremendous body of work that supports our modern understanding of physics, there were many that held notions that we find ludicrous today (e.g. human flight was mathematically "proved" to be impossible). Until science is able to pin down what the mind is and is able to reproduce it, hold off your ridicule. We know the mind exists, but can't reproduce it or even readily define what it is.
science is a religion
Galileo.
The GP mentioned nothing about "first".
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"Vu" meaning "considered", from "Vue" as in "seen".
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I see the future in my dreams.I can see three months into the future .My mind uses the past to produce a picture of future events that may happen.I see small clips of future events.The most noticabe are the crossroads in life that my mind is working on selecting the safest path.Lg