Don't mind the complainers. I've concluded they don't like democracy and are protesting it. They registered their complaint, and she didn't win. Now they are protesting that stupid people shouldn't have their votes count. They don't like democracy when it doesn't work out for them.
I wouldn't call them "anti-democratic" I would call them "Pro Republic". Democracies always end in tyranny, and Republics tend to stay free, until they become democracies... which end in tyranny. The founders were dedicated to making this Republic something very difficult to dissolve into a democracy. The current system of Electoral college does a very good job of approximating the over all mood of our country. That being said, if you want to reform the election process, there is ONE big thing that could move the country forward much better.
Remove the (D), (R), (L) and (G) from behind peoples names on the ballot. Every office is free and open to any / all who want to run, and we don't get to see which criminal enterprise they represent. THEN the Candidates would actually have to articulate their actual values and positions, rather than slump into "He's a racist" "She's a criminal" name shouting contest we have now.
Then we would get a good result of qualified candidates the Electoral College could select from, and then we grant them, the electors, the right to select from those. Modify the results so that they vote until they get a President by removing from each ballot those that got the least amount of votes, and/or those that didn't meet a certain threshold.
Pure Democracies never respect the rights of minorities. Ever.
Exactly. You can actually move to a state that better represents where you want to live, how you want to live, what kind of jobs you want to have etc. IF we live in a pure democracy, and majority rules at a National Level, your choices become... none.
I don't want to live in a Country with San Francisco Values, any more than San Francisco people want to live in Jackson Wyoming values Country.The beauty of STATE power is , if you don't like it, you can move somewhere else. The absolute worst possible case would be the a Monolithic culture imposed by people who never been to most of the places they are imposing their values one.
Take a bit of a time trip, back to Aug 2000, when it looked like GWB would get a plurality of popular vote, and Gore would get the Electoral College vote, and read what Liberals were saying back then about how important the Electoral College is. Those same liberals today are bemoaning the electoral college and the results on Tuesday/Weds.
What is clear, is politics is filled with hypocrites, and perhaps we should stop listening to them, especially those in our own sequestered echo chambers. If your position requires different view, based on outcome, then your view is not principled. Pure and simple.
I'm tired of the "We must do something! This is Something! Therefore we must DO IT!!!!!" arguments.
That really worked well for Hillary this time. Oh wait, the Blue Firewall broke... oh noes, we spent too much time in the wrong swing states.
All the punditry class had Hillary winning this in a landslide two days before the election. What they all missed, and what people like Michael Moore actually saw, was that the last two elections were about the Populist President, who ignored those "swing states" for 8 years. And Obama's Chickens have come home to roost.
This all falls squarely on Obama, the Democrats and Hillary. They failed to stop being elitist snobs and enough people were pissed off that they voted for a Turd Sandwich, rather than the Giant Douche (or is it the other way around). All you diehard democrats, you need to stop insulting how the people voted, and take responsibility for party's crappy campaign, candidate and policies that ignored 1/2 America as if it were a third world country.
I hope you realize that neither Clinton Nor Trump got 50% of the popular vote. That means, over half of the people in the country didn't like your candidate. And I don't even know who you voted for.
One of the fixes for not having a majority (50% +1) election is... the Electoral College.
You want to fix the Electoral College, win a state and not be part of the two party system. Closest this year was Utah. Trump won over 50 % there, so it wouldn't have mattered. Hillary almost ended up 3rd place.
Here is a thought, if Parties want to put forth a singular candidate to represent their view, they should to it on their own dime, and not the dime of the taxpayer. Remove the Party designation from all ballots, so people couldn't vote based on "Stupid" party lines. It wouldn't solve much, but at least it would make people think more.
Or is that "disenfranchisement" of the functionally illiterate voter?
Yes, that is true, if we actually lived in a democracy. But we don't. We live in a Republic, democratic in nature. When you dismiss (via ignorance or because you don't like it) the "Republic" part, you're ignoring the actual law (Constitution). The Electoral college is, for lack of a better way, an balanced view between states and the populace as a whole.And if you look at the county or even district level electoral map, the US is really red, and you'd have liberal elites from the coasts ruling over "Fly Over Country" being increasingly dismissive of that portion of the country. That is tyranny, and not democracy.
It is more of a disaster that people don't know that we live in a Republic, and not a democracy. Tyrants love democracies, for they only need to stir the passions of the people once to take over.
How else do you ensure that the POTUS has the interests of small states in mind?
I would actually say that this is part of the reason why Trump is President Elect. The current POTUS couldn't give a rip and actually was quite dismissive of "Fly Over Country". That dismissiveness really did end up hurting Hillary in the Great Lakes region, because she express similar viewpoints throughout her career and candidacy.
You can't ignore people, then get upset when they don't vote for you. That's kind of how things actually are supposed to work.
We live in a Republic, not a democracy. The Electoral College does serve a purpose, one that you disagree with, but it still serves a purpose. The GP outlines it very nicely and in unbiased terms.
The problem is, the whole Bill Clinton thing kind of ruined it for Liberals/Democrats. They said it was all "part of a vast right wing conspiracy" when he lied to a Grand Jury about the sexual assault case he was being sued over. Sexual Assault was never going to be an issue after that.
IF you don't like the result of Trump, because of sexual assault, you can actually thank Bill Clinton for paving that road ahead of Trump.
I am not responding to the AC above, but I know I am weird, as in... not normal (for just about norms). I haven't voted D or R in nearly thirty years, and it gets called as "protest vote" by the "normal" people who don't understand that it is not just a protest vote, it is principled in ways they cannot fathom. To the "Normal" folks, they end up voting D or R, and possibly switching on occasion. They don't waste their vote on "protests" and my vote is "wasted" because I refuse to vote for lessor of two evils.
I can assure you that in my tiny bit of the world, Windows OS is running on less than half the computers we manage. We could probably get rid of close to 90% of the windows machines if it wan't for the people who use them who would complain they couldn't do that one thing they just can't live without.
It answers the motivation of both people, those that supported Trump and Clinton. You only read the story the way you wanted to. You're the person the article is really pointing at.
It will not go well for the people
You are the Elitist the Trump people hate. And you still don't understand why. But it is right there. You know better than they do.
Sexual Assault is easy to accuse, hard to prove. Which is why it is fair game for political dirty tricks.
The democrats have no real argument about misogyny since Clinton. They tried pinning that tail on Donald, and most people were instantly reminded of Bills sordid adventures with females, both willing and unwilling.
After you actually read that article, then we can have a proper discussion. Our view of "Our World" is distorted by our view of "our world". The people in other places that seem "weird" are only that way because... we're weird ourselves. It is all a matter of perspective.
Reminds me of an old ATA controller that had two models, that literally came off the same line, with all the same bits. One was standard ATA, the other had RAID support. There was a trick where you jumpered a connection and loaded the RAID firmware (free to download as an "update") and ta-da you have a RAID controller. Saving you about $250 in the process.
The difference between "consumer" and "Professional" systems is often window dressing. And it isn't that big of a secret.
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Don't mind the complainers. I've concluded they don't like democracy and are protesting it. They registered their complaint, and she didn't win. Now they are protesting that stupid people shouldn't have their votes count. They don't like democracy when it doesn't work out for them.
I wouldn't call them "anti-democratic" I would call them "Pro Republic". Democracies always end in tyranny, and Republics tend to stay free, until they become democracies ... which end in tyranny. The founders were dedicated to making this Republic something very difficult to dissolve into a democracy. The current system of Electoral college does a very good job of approximating the over all mood of our country. That being said, if you want to reform the election process, there is ONE big thing that could move the country forward much better.
Remove the (D), (R), (L) and (G) from behind peoples names on the ballot. Every office is free and open to any / all who want to run, and we don't get to see which criminal enterprise they represent. THEN the Candidates would actually have to articulate their actual values and positions, rather than slump into "He's a racist" "She's a criminal" name shouting contest we have now.
Then we would get a good result of qualified candidates the Electoral College could select from, and then we grant them, the electors, the right to select from those. Modify the results so that they vote until they get a President by removing from each ballot those that got the least amount of votes, and/or those that didn't meet a certain threshold.
Pure Democracies never respect the rights of minorities. Ever.
I've been a citizen of over half a dozen states.
Exactly. You can actually move to a state that better represents where you want to live, how you want to live, what kind of jobs you want to have etc. IF we live in a pure democracy, and majority rules at a National Level, your choices become ... none.
I don't want to live in a Country with San Francisco Values, any more than San Francisco people want to live in Jackson Wyoming values Country.The beauty of STATE power is , if you don't like it, you can move somewhere else. The absolute worst possible case would be the a Monolithic culture imposed by people who never been to most of the places they are imposing their values one.
Take a bit of a time trip, back to Aug 2000, when it looked like GWB would get a plurality of popular vote, and Gore would get the Electoral College vote, and read what Liberals were saying back then about how important the Electoral College is. Those same liberals today are bemoaning the electoral college and the results on Tuesday/Weds.
What is clear, is politics is filled with hypocrites, and perhaps we should stop listening to them, especially those in our own sequestered echo chambers. If your position requires different view, based on outcome, then your view is not principled. Pure and simple.
I'm tired of the "We must do something! This is Something! Therefore we must DO IT!!!!!" arguments.
That really worked well for Hillary this time. Oh wait, the Blue Firewall broke ... oh noes, we spent too much time in the wrong swing states.
All the punditry class had Hillary winning this in a landslide two days before the election. What they all missed, and what people like Michael Moore actually saw, was that the last two elections were about the Populist President, who ignored those "swing states" for 8 years. And Obama's Chickens have come home to roost.
This all falls squarely on Obama, the Democrats and Hillary. They failed to stop being elitist snobs and enough people were pissed off that they voted for a Turd Sandwich, rather than the Giant Douche (or is it the other way around). All you diehard democrats, you need to stop insulting how the people voted, and take responsibility for party's crappy campaign, candidate and policies that ignored 1/2 America as if it were a third world country.
I hope you realize that neither Clinton Nor Trump got 50% of the popular vote. That means, over half of the people in the country didn't like your candidate. And I don't even know who you voted for.
One of the fixes for not having a majority (50% +1) election is ... the Electoral College.
You want to fix the Electoral College, win a state and not be part of the two party system. Closest this year was Utah. Trump won over 50 % there, so it wouldn't have mattered. Hillary almost ended up 3rd place.
Tyrants love being "democratically" elected. We don't live in a democracy, we live in a Republic. There is a difference.
Here is a thought, if Parties want to put forth a singular candidate to represent their view, they should to it on their own dime, and not the dime of the taxpayer. Remove the Party designation from all ballots, so people couldn't vote based on "Stupid" party lines. It wouldn't solve much, but at least it would make people think more.
Or is that "disenfranchisement" of the functionally illiterate voter?
One Person, One Vote is fundamental to democracy
Yes, that is true, if we actually lived in a democracy. But we don't. We live in a Republic, democratic in nature. When you dismiss (via ignorance or because you don't like it) the "Republic" part, you're ignoring the actual law (Constitution). The Electoral college is, for lack of a better way, an balanced view between states and the populace as a whole.And if you look at the county or even district level electoral map, the US is really red, and you'd have liberal elites from the coasts ruling over "Fly Over Country" being increasingly dismissive of that portion of the country. That is tyranny, and not democracy.
It is more of a disaster that people don't know that we live in a Republic, and not a democracy. Tyrants love democracies, for they only need to stir the passions of the people once to take over.
That is a mistake of the State's Constitution or Charter.
Here in California, we have two house system for legislature, but are built exactly the same, by population. It doesn't serve any purpose.
How else do you ensure that the POTUS has the interests of small states in mind?
I would actually say that this is part of the reason why Trump is President Elect. The current POTUS couldn't give a rip and actually was quite dismissive of "Fly Over Country". That dismissiveness really did end up hurting Hillary in the Great Lakes region, because she express similar viewpoints throughout her career and candidacy.
You can't ignore people, then get upset when they don't vote for you. That's kind of how things actually are supposed to work.
We live in a Republic, not a democracy. The Electoral College does serve a purpose, one that you disagree with, but it still serves a purpose. The GP outlines it very nicely and in unbiased terms.
The problem is, the whole Bill Clinton thing kind of ruined it for Liberals/Democrats. They said it was all "part of a vast right wing conspiracy" when he lied to a Grand Jury about the sexual assault case he was being sued over. Sexual Assault was never going to be an issue after that.
IF you don't like the result of Trump, because of sexual assault, you can actually thank Bill Clinton for paving that road ahead of Trump.
(I didn't vote for Trump).
We're all weird to people who are different from us. And that scares people.
I am not responding to the AC above, but I know I am weird, as in ... not normal (for just about norms). I haven't voted D or R in nearly thirty years, and it gets called as "protest vote" by the "normal" people who don't understand that it is not just a protest vote, it is principled in ways they cannot fathom. To the "Normal" folks, they end up voting D or R, and possibly switching on occasion. They don't waste their vote on "protests" and my vote is "wasted" because I refuse to vote for lessor of two evils.
Read the article. It actually explains this.
I can assure you that in my tiny bit of the world, Windows OS is running on less than half the computers we manage. We could probably get rid of close to 90% of the windows machines if it wan't for the people who use them who would complain they couldn't do that one thing they just can't live without.
It answers the motivation of both people, those that supported Trump and Clinton. You only read the story the way you wanted to. You're the person the article is really pointing at.
It will not go well for the people
You are the Elitist the Trump people hate. And you still don't understand why. But it is right there. You know better than they do.
Sexual Assault is easy to accuse, hard to prove. Which is why it is fair game for political dirty tricks.
The democrats have no real argument about misogyny since Clinton. They tried pinning that tail on Donald, and most people were instantly reminded of Bills sordid adventures with females, both willing and unwilling.
will fight incredibly dirty and use any tactic no matter how unsavory.
And this differs from Democrats how?
No seriously, it is what is wrong with party politics. You get stuck defending party over principle.
Nixon was an avid poker player. Sometimes you know the other person has what they are representing.
Everyone, especially Liberals in Big Cities ... you need to read this.
http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-...
After you actually read that article, then we can have a proper discussion. Our view of "Our World" is distorted by our view of "our world". The people in other places that seem "weird" are only that way because ... we're weird ourselves. It is all a matter of perspective.
Reminds me of an old ATA controller that had two models, that literally came off the same line, with all the same bits. One was standard ATA, the other had RAID support. There was a trick where you jumpered a connection and loaded the RAID firmware (free to download as an "update") and ta-da you have a RAID controller. Saving you about $250 in the process.
The difference between "consumer" and "Professional" systems is often window dressing. And it isn't that big of a secret.
When Businesses fail, they go out of business. When government fails, they raise taxes.