Slashdot Mirror
Open Source Pioneer Munich Debates Report That Suggests Abandoning Linux for Windows 10 (techrepublic.com)
As an open-source software pioneer, Munich spent years moving away from Windows, but now politicians are debating a report that suggests the city could eventually abandon Linux. A report on TechRepublic adds: If the authority ruling Germany's third largest city backs proposals to make Windows 10 and Microsoft Office available across the council, it would be a significant step away from open-source software for an organization once seen as its champion. Over a nine-year period starting in 2004, the council moved about 15,000 staff from using Windows and Office to LiMux -- a custom version of the Ubuntu desktop OS -- and other open source software. At the time, Munich was one of the largest organizations to reject Windows, and Microsoft took the city's leaving so seriously that then CEO Steve Ballmer flew to Munich to meet the mayor. Now a report commissioned by current mayor Dieter Reiter to help determine the future of IT at the council has outlined a project to make Windows 10 and Microsoft Office available to all departments, and give staff the choice about whether to use Windows or LiMux.
In an enterprise there are two big costs... licensing, and support.
Linux the cost of support is pretty high -- for models like Red Hat the cost often is higher than Windows because you don't get as high a per-seat discount. Then there are the other ancillary costs like productivity, accessibility, data governance, etc... which are harder to materialize but also make an impact.
Ultimately most organizations use Windows because it meets the needs for those things that are ancillary while also staying competitive with the two larger costs of support and licensing.
This isn't a religious conversation much as Slashdot would like it to be; I am a big fan of the best tool for the job and on the desktop sad to say, Linux still doesn't do the job. Server side the uptick is huge, which is also why Microsoft products like SQL Server or .NET Core can literally run on Linux, and are supported in Docker. Microsoft saw the light because being agnostic is financially rewarding, and lock-in doesn't work. But the desktop? Still the realm of Windows.
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
I'd swear this is at least the third or fourth time I have seen a story on this. Not in the last week like usual, but going back a couple years.
Linux in its heart is a Server OS. Its desktop/workstation features are almost a hack onto the systems to make useful.
Now I have the same feelings about Windows Server. Windows is a Desktop OS, and Windows Server is a hack to make it more server feature friendly.
Now for folks like me Linux for the Desktop is great, which is why I use it at home over Windows... But for the general public. Trying to get beyond normal features you come across these minor differences and compatibility issues which for us is an easy workaround. But for someone who isn't so savvy it is a big deal. And a lot of effort goes into training, and fixing the issue.
I tried a while back to give my Parents Linux as their default laptop. All fine and good until I get a call saying why I can I run this game, or I am getting this error...
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
...the report was funded by Microsoft Europe.
was the check MS signed? Remember kids, MS can't be seen losing to Linux under any circumstances.
Microsoft made them a deal they could not pass up. Betting it was gobs of free licenses for all microsoft products and possibly even hardware.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Fracking fantastic right.... Thousands of people at my wife's university with frozen computers bothering the IT guys, yeah a great product, and me a network guy, my judgement, noisy freaking operation system windows has become network wise one thinks of the appletalk era, oh and an OS that is freezing the network connection when updates are being prepared for installation and not asking the user if that is inconvenient before doing so and emet... Puke puke puke, it is clear that the politicians and people evaluating have been well trained by salespeople or they have no clue about IT, and putting the IT security in the hands of foreign governments and companies in a world where cybersecurity is imperative, that is the thinking of morons, at least with an open source product you got your own back and are not forced to be relying on the mercy of someone else.
Listen up people. No matter what platform or OS you use, there is going to be someone who tells you you were making a mistake. That's just life. And if these folks in Germany think Linux is bad, they should just switch over to W10.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
They went to all the effort of creating their own distribution and didn't think of calling it Munix ?
" ...errors in how PDFs are displayed by the open-source viewing software".
I won't say that's perfect or that there aren't any bugs but I always found the PDF support in open source toola excellent. Libreoffice, for example, generates smaller and better PDF files than Microsoft Office.
I love open source and no it isn't cheap or easy to develop or maintain - but I honestly feel that Open Office/Libre Office has done nothing in 10 years to really improve compatibility. Many .doc and even .docx files still look like garbage in OOo or Libre Office, and the reality is that the MS Office format dominates the business world. Also, I think MS did a really nice job with Win 10 until thee most recent anniversary update.
Of course this has nothing to do with the fact that Microsoft just moved its German Headquarters with about 2000 employees from Unterschleißheim (near Munich) to Schwabing (in Munich), and is now presumably a major tax payer in the city.
So does the mayor of Munich have a foundation that Microsoft has made a donation to?
is to request Munich to trust the cloud. Cloud computing is der future. The Third Reich was der future as well.
A move over to chromeos would be the most logical. All services could be moved over to government managed web services and google docs could be used. Maintenance of chromeos is a snap.
Even Nazis don't like Sheisstopfd.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
If they need Office but don't want Windows, what is wrong with an Office 365 subscription? Works in a browser and if it is wonky then you just need to tell MS to fix their shit. MS is all about the cloud now so they sell a browser based Office solution. Sure, it comes with the desktop version too and I have Office 2016 on my Mac but in the absence of the desktop version, I can use the browser. Desktop OS support is expensive and horrible and Windows is about the worst to support so stick with Linux and if they need Office, get Office 365 and keep Linux. That is unless MS forces the issue and makes it more expensive to just have Office 365 rather than Windows 10 and Office 365. That would never happen though......would it?......
"I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
The issue is not Linux or LibreOffice compatibility. It is that Microsoft intentionally keeps moving the goal. Microsoft's strategy is planned obsolescence to get you to buy the same product over and over again.
User #1: Sorry, I can't read this document. What is a .docx (.xml, .doc, .rtf, .wps) anyway?
User #2: Maybe it is because you are using an older version. Have you tried upgrading to Office 2016 (2012,2010,2007,2003,2000)?
User #1: Hey, thanks! I will plunk down another $395 for the new version of Office 2016 (2012,2010,2007,2003,2000).
Microsoft gives away MS Works. A Word clone that saves documents in wps format. Why would anyone create a free competitor to their flagship product? Office will convert the document to a format that Word can not open. This forces the Works user to upgrade.
Microsoft Office promotes ODF compatibility. Unfortunately, it converts all documents to version 1.0 format, making the document unusable by Libre Office, Google Docs, etc.
Microsoft also advertises .docx (.xlsx, .pptx) as Ecma standards, but there is no way to follow a standard which states, "do X like it was done in MS Office 2003".
The 98% who do not understand these facts and place the blame squarely at Microsoft's doorstep are sheeple.
cost of enterprise Windows 10 is pretty high as well.
cost of SUPPORT of enterprise windows 10 is either ZERO or A FUCKING LOT. if you give no support then it's pretty low, if you intend to do any kind of "enterprisey" kind support then it's _MASSIVE_.
why it's so massive? they fucked up group policy. they fucked up network policies. they fucked up all configurations - and they fuck them up even more monthly with patches! they don't even give patch notes! if a cumulated update is going to fuck your network configurations is totally up to luck. you didn't want ipv6 enabled? haha we enabled it for you again! default network shares? well, they might be enabled again after every update! you want to use some other login system than microsoft? haha good luck again!
you want a built in calculator to keep working? better keep the metro shit enabled as well - not that you're going to configure it in any other version than the pay per monthly enterprise version anyways and if you disable them all...
and well, you want to configure the telemetrics to go to your server? haha good luck with that - just because there's a configuration option doesn't mean it works that way!
all and all, windows 10 is a massive piece of shit. not because the kernel is bad or anything like that but because they keep fucking with the options and ui choices on top of that in a very user hostile manner. I mean damn, what other device or OS has the fucking guts to ask for feedback about the calculator app after 3 uses! what other commercial os that you paid for will advertise candy crush to your workers?
it's not meant for work, it's meant for you to accidentally start using ms app store and an ms account. - but again not for the reasons you think, it's only made that way because idiot board at MS decided to adjust bonuses to be paid based on those telemetrics of adoption and ms account creations! same fucking idiot board who paid so much money for linkedin that they could have bought ARM holdings for the SAME FUCKING AMOUNT OF MONEY!
think about that, which one sounds strategically better? buy the cpu licensing company that your competitors all have to use or buy some post-your-cv site for 50 bucks per _non_paying_user_?
> The city's human resources department (POR) is particularly critical of LiMux, saying that since 2006 when the POR started using LiMux and OpenOffice, later switching to LibreOffice, that "the efficiency and productivity of the POR-supported workplaces has decreased noticeably" - referencing crashes, display and printing errors.
But in 2006 there existed Windows XP and Office 2003, two notoriously stable and successful versions. Now we have Windows 10 and Office 2013, bloated versions with compatibility problems and weird UI, needing time and effort to get used to. During the same time period, OpenOffice/LibreOffice made great strides in stability, compatibility and usability.
Between turning linux into politics, because of systemd, and a piece of shit person like Trump becoming the president of usa and windows 10 being nothing but a way for MS to force people into their shape just shows that people just plain suck. Why the hell not, ditch linux and start using W10. Fuck everything decent.
Dieter Reiter has attacked the Limux project from day one he was in office, starting to spread FUD like his inability to access his mobile mail was due to Limux flaws instead of workflow issues. His head of IT publicly denied Reiter's claims and refuted them. Mr. Reiter has "outed" himself as a Microsoft fan in the past (before he became mayor) and was personally involved in moving Microsoft Germany's headquarters from the Munich suburb to the city of Munich itself. So this is more of a personal/political issue. Munich's IT staff still thinks Limux is a good solution and luckily there is opposition to Reiters FUD in the town hall. Going back to Microsoft would be very costly but now that Microsoft has its HQ in Munich, I'm pretty sure the lobbying has taken up steam and there's going to be "deals benefiting both sides" here.
To Micro$oft Crack.
The report (Accidenture?) missed the 600 pound gorilla in the room, i.e. two German laws. The data collection features of Win10 violate two laws and this issue is currently under investigation. So no sane person could recommend to use Win10 in a corporate or municipal environment in Germany at the moment. We have to wait until the legal situation is clear. Possibly MS would have to create a Win10DE and early adopters might face a lot of trouble.
He's giving them the choice of Windows or Limux. If you're assuming Limux is dead, then you're assuming people are choosing the other option because it is better.
A helpful description of the problem might help you a long way on solving the issue. All I can read is that you like the other desktop environments better, which is fair enough but not particular useful information.