"I already have to deal with numerous e-mails from users that have difficulty filling out the form in its current setup."
But that's the beauty of it! CAPTCHA doesn't just filter spam! If your only source of contact was CAPTCHA'd you'd automatically filter out those user complaints too!:)
Sounds like an episode of BOFH if you ask me.. heh heh heh.. you know the one, where he installs a CAPTCHA so obfuscated that NO ONE can read it?
One of the problems I see with this is that it's also an old search engine spam technique and could lead your site to being penalized in search results. I advocate email obfuscation if you must have a mailto:)
Indeed I have found that my most "mature" forms out on the web are targeted for spam.. I've added CAPTCHA though, seems to nip it in the butt... but at what cost.. AT WHAT COST?!?!?!?
Note that to the end user the obfuscation is transparent- they see a regular email address when they click the mailto link and in the webpage. Harvesters OTOH do not....atleast, again, according to the CDT, which IMHO is a good, respectable source for these kinds of things.
I try to run any mailtos through an email obfuscator.. as the link says, a 6 month study showed that obfuscated emails "do not receive junk mail."
My theory is that harvesters have enough email addresses out there to gather and that the spammers are too lazy/have no need to write algorithms that interpret these types of mailtos.
Though, I have to admit, I did prepare the post in advance thanks to my subscription... though it wasn't until I was actually copying/pasting into the post box (once it was available) that I realized I might have a shot at first post.
It was a combination of my reaction to the AC's description of the article, my not understanding what "the third degree" was referring to and my rush to get first post. I guess it's more accurate to say that the link I supplied debunks the idea implied by the AC and the article- that Borat is a ripoff of Mahir.
The first post thing was both my attempt to tell the rest of the story at the "top of the fold" AND also... well.. to get first post. I admit it, I am an FP whore:(
I've always felt that Mahir was a somehow a source for Borat, but I was amazed to find out that Cohen's character pre-dated Mahir by so long... check out this YouTube clip of Cohen playing an early version of Borat, before Mahir was famous (warning, NWS): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG5FQP1OmOk&eurl=
I agree that he may have lifted some of Mahir's quotes/concepts though, but inviting him to the party would have ruined the Borat character - Cohen takes great pains to never break character and that's part of Borat's shtick I think.
Now, what would be maximum awesome would be to ambush Borat with Mahir and see what happens:P
I agree it's borderline- but, there are a few subtle factors at play here:
Web 2.0 vs.. uhh.. old school:P (Dot Bomb?)
#1 - Borat's success due to Web 2.0/YouTube culture buzz
#2 - Mahir's old-school website of internet lore and fame
To study how the two became "famous" is a study in the way the web has changed in 10 years.. fair enough that Borat had traditional media on his side, but he stood on the shoulders of the new web to become the phenom he is now. Much in the same way that Mahir became famous, except through the pre-Web 2.0 system...they seem so arcane now.
with regard to Smirnoff, here is a choice Metafilter comment:
"So there I was sitting at the hotel bar. It was three o'clock in the afternoon on a Thursday is a big urban area. I was one of maybe a half dozen people skipping out on the conference's keynote speech to drown our sorrows in over-priced draft beer. We didn't talk, or even make eye contact, with each other and we'd spread out through the bar out of solemn respect for each other's alcoholism. The only noise was from the TV above the wall of liquor bottles.
I was halfway through my third drink when the bartender started laughing and calling to someone entering the bat behind me. I looked up at the mirror behind the bar and saw it was a lone man, short, with curly dark hair and a well-trimmed beard. He looked familiar, but I couldn't place his mirror image at all.
The guy sat down as close to me as the Guy Code would allow. Men drinking alone in bars is just as ritualized as men urinating in bar stalls. He and the bartender continued to talk and laugh, no doubt old friends forged by a big tip or two. I couldn't make out what he was saying, he had some sort of accent, but his voice was as naggingly familiar as his face.
Then, as I watched the bartender mix his drink, a vodka martini of some sort, something just clicked his identity struck me: That's Yakov Smirnoff! I remember him from cola commercials and Night Court! I made sure to speak up and catch the bartender's eye when I ordered my fourth so as to be drawn into their conversation.
It worked and let me tell you, Yakov Smirnoff is a hell of a guy. Funny, quick witted, and ready to talk with anybody. I'd never really "hung out" with a celeb before so it was all new to me. When it looked like he might leave, I bought Yakov another drink. He accepted with a broad smile and slid over to the chair next to me.
We sat and bullshitted for the best part of an hour. I was having a great time. So was he. I guess being famous, he doesn't get much of a chance to just sit and talk with regular folk like me. He'd even dressed for the occasion, his clothes were as wrinkled as mine, probably for being packed in a suitcase for so long. He was on a tour, he said, doing motivational speeches and the like for some consulting firm. He had a gig at that very hotel, the convention following mine.
Soon, we were best buds. I had just tossed down my corporate Visa to pay for our next round when I saw Yakov's head jerk up to face the bar TV. There was a commercial for that new movie with that Ali G guy, Sasha Cohen, playing his Borat-the-reporter character.
Suddenly, Yakov's smile became a little forced, a little strained. Our old bartender had long since gone off shift and his replacement, a bubbly blonde in her early 20s, looked up at the TV too and laughed. "I love that guy!" she cooed, "He's sssoooo funny! And sssoooo smart to come up with that Borat!"
I don't know if you know this, but Yakov Smirnoff has blue eyes. Cold, blue eyes. They locked on the girl, his face frozen and tense. His cheek twitched a bit, but the new bartender continued on, mistaking his attention for encouragement.
"Don't you think so? He's so original!"
I didn't even see him throw his glass, I just heard it crash. People were yelling and shouting. I got knocked off my stool as one of the hotel security guys ran in to pull Yakov off the vodka-soaked bar by the scruff of his suit. It ripped. He was flailing about, shouting something I couldn't understand.
I thought I saw blood on his hands as they dragged him out. He had ceased struggling by then, his body limp. He didn't even have enough energy left in him to cry.":(
Well, say what you will, but Mahir is an internet legend and a seemingly nice guy who's just being himself. His website does "suck" - that's whats funny about it- Mahir is basically a foreign AOL user!
I agree that Borat's character is dangerous and offensive humor, but if you can dig deeper you may find that Borat is actually a commentary on western culture, not middle eastern.
This Wired article has already been debunked, with more sources then you can shake a stick at. The bottom line is that The earliest date we can determine for Mahir Cagri's website is 1998 and the earliest known mention of Sacha Cohen's Borat character is 1994.
So. Thanks Wired for reminding us of Mahir, gotta love him, and for stirring up more press about Borat. But please don't blemish Sacha Baron Cohen like this. On the DVD commentary for the first season Sacha Baron Cohen said his character was based off of a doctor he met in Russia- it's based on someone else, not Mahir. If anything that Russian has a chance to sue Cohen I suppose:P
In any case, any publicity is good publicity, rite?
caveat: I didn't mean to jump down the parent's throat as much as I feel that the whole Saudi Arabia thing is an issue that doesn't get enough attention... I'm sure the leadership over there is trying though.. but the bottom line is that they are definitely a challenge for us and shaky allies at best.
Saudi Arabia, the UAE, and Egypt could easily obtain reactors from the U.S. given their allied status and being favored trading partners.
Maybe you missed the memo.. but Saudi Arabia is NOT considered an ally anymore! 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were Saudi Arabian- the operation was financed by Saudi Arabians, and members of the Saudi Arabian government knew about 9/11 and were very uncooperative in helping the United States investigate 9/11 in the aftermath (mostly to cover up their involvement). Furthermore- Saudi Arabia was one of few countries to recognize the Taliban government of Afghanistan and they were actually a major source of FUNDING for them!
The Joint Inquiry into Intelligence Community Activities before and after the Terrorist Attacks of September 11, 2001 said point blank that the September 11 attacks could have been prevented but for the Saudi Arabian government's lack of cooperation with US investigations during the lead up to 9/11. The reason for their lack of cooperation? Because they were involved!
The main leaders of the government of Saudi Arabia may want to be allies, but they are basically under tremendous internal strife with other powers in Saudi Arabia who are anti-US, and in the end their policies are tempered by this strife to our detriment.
They were our allies before, and because of this we gave them preferential treatment, overlooking transgressions and suspect citizens visiting the US, etc... this preferential treatment was also cited as something that could have prevented 9/11!
"According to a U. S. Government official, it was clear from about 1996 that the Saudi Government would not cooperate with the United States on matters relating to Usama Bin Ladin. **REDACTED**, reemphasized the lack of Saudi cooperation and stated that there was little prospect of future cooperation regarding Bin Ladin. **REDACTED** told the Joint Inquiry that he believed the U.S. Government's hope of eventually obtaining Saudi cooperation was unrealistic because Saudi assistance to the U.S. Government on this matter is contrary to Saudi national interests. "
"The Treasury Department General Counsel testified at the July 23, 2002 hearing about the lack of Saudi cooperation: There is an almost intuitive sense, however, that things are not being volunteered. So I want to fully inform you about it, that we have to ask and we have to seek and we have to strive. I will give you one-and-a-half examples. The first is, after some period, the Saudis have agreed to the designation of a man named Julaydin, who is notoriously involved in all of this; and his designation will be public within the next 10 days. They came forward to us two weeks ago and said, okay, we think we should go forward with the designation and a freeze order against Mr. Julaydin. We asked, what do you have on him? Because they certainly know what we have on him, because we shared it as we tried to convince them that they ought to join us. The answer back was, nothing new. . . . . . . . I think that taxes credulity, or there is another motive we are not being told. "
"A number of U. S. Government officials complained to the Joint Inquiry about a lack of Saudi cooperation in terrorism investigations both before and after the September 11 attacks.**REDACTED**. A high-level U. S. Government officer cited greater Saudi cooperation when asked how the September 11 attacks might have been prevented. In May 2001, the U.S. Government became aware that an individual in Saudi Arabia was in contact with a senior al-Qa'ida operative and was most likely aware of an upcoming al- Qa'ida o
Slashdot Mirror
"I already have to deal with numerous e-mails from users that have difficulty filling out the form in its current setup."
:)
But that's the beauty of it! CAPTCHA doesn't just filter spam! If your only source of contact was CAPTCHA'd you'd automatically filter out those user complaints too!
Sounds like an episode of BOFH if you ask me.. heh heh heh.. you know the one, where he installs a CAPTCHA so obfuscated that NO ONE can read it?
One of the problems I see with this is that it's also an old search engine spam technique and could lead your site to being penalized in search results. I advocate email obfuscation if you must have a mailto :)
Indeed I have found that my most "mature" forms out on the web are targeted for spam.. I've added CAPTCHA though, seems to nip it in the butt... but at what cost.. AT WHAT COST?!?!?!?
:(
Won't someone think of the users?
Note that to the end user the obfuscation is transparent- they see a regular email address when they click the mailto link and in the webpage. Harvesters OTOH do not....atleast, again, according to the CDT, which IMHO is a good, respectable source for these kinds of things.
TLAs FTW!
I try to run any mailtos through an email obfuscator .. as the link says, a 6 month study showed that obfuscated emails "do not receive junk mail."
My theory is that harvesters have enough email addresses out there to gather and that the spammers are too lazy/have no need to write algorithms that interpret these types of mailtos.
Some day, some day...The Nintendo ON - so hottttttttttt.... better quality copies here.
*bows*
Though, I have to admit, I did prepare the post in advance thanks to my subscription... though it wasn't until I was actually copying/pasting into the post box (once it was available) that I realized I might have a shot at first post.
I wish I knew the origins of these stories... they are entertaining none the less :)
Looks like our friends at ENN are trying to setup a coral cache for incoming /. clickthroughs.. its broken right now, but here is a working one.
:(
I fail for not using that in my post
It was a combination of my reaction to the AC's description of the article, my not understanding what "the third degree" was referring to and my rush to get first post. I guess it's more accurate to say that the link I supplied debunks the idea implied by the AC and the article- that Borat is a ripoff of Mahir.
:(
The first post thing was both my attempt to tell the rest of the story at the "top of the fold" AND also... well.. to get first post. I admit it, I am an FP whore
hehe, I'm glad I went with that one- this was my other choice!
A WTF image for sure.
i kno rite? I think I found em actually: First Post Bitches!
+1 funny!
I've always felt that Mahir was a somehow a source for Borat, but I was amazed to find out that Cohen's character pre-dated Mahir by so long... check out this YouTube clip of Cohen playing an early version of Borat, before Mahir was famous (warning, NWS): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG5FQP1OmOk&eurl=
:P
I agree that he may have lifted some of Mahir's quotes/concepts though, but inviting him to the party would have ruined the Borat character - Cohen takes great pains to never break character and that's part of Borat's shtick I think.
Now, what would be maximum awesome would be to ambush Borat with Mahir and see what happens
Cool article :) - THIS is what I was expecting from the Wired one- it's a shame it didn't have more substance.
I kiss you! :)
I agree it's borderline- but, there are a few subtle factors at play here:
.. uhh.. old school :P (Dot Bomb?)
Web 2.0 vs
#1 - Borat's success due to Web 2.0/YouTube culture buzz
#2 - Mahir's old-school website of internet lore and fame
To study how the two became "famous" is a study in the way the web has changed in 10 years.. fair enough that Borat had traditional media on his side, but he stood on the shoulders of the new web to become the phenom he is now. Much in the same way that Mahir became famous, except through the pre-Web 2.0 system...they seem so arcane now.
NO CARRIER
with regard to Smirnoff, here is a choice Metafilter comment:
:(
"So there I was sitting at the hotel bar. It was three o'clock in the afternoon on a Thursday is a big urban area. I was one of maybe a half dozen people skipping out on the conference's keynote speech to drown our sorrows in over-priced draft beer. We didn't talk, or even make eye contact, with each other and we'd spread out through the bar out of solemn respect for each other's alcoholism. The only noise was from the TV above the wall of liquor bottles.
I was halfway through my third drink when the bartender started laughing and calling to someone entering the bat behind me. I looked up at the mirror behind the bar and saw it was a lone man, short, with curly dark hair and a well-trimmed beard. He looked familiar, but I couldn't place his mirror image at all.
The guy sat down as close to me as the Guy Code would allow. Men drinking alone in bars is just as ritualized as men urinating in bar stalls. He and the bartender continued to talk and laugh, no doubt old friends forged by a big tip or two. I couldn't make out what he was saying, he had some sort of accent, but his voice was as naggingly familiar as his face.
Then, as I watched the bartender mix his drink, a vodka martini of some sort, something just clicked his identity struck me: That's Yakov Smirnoff! I remember him from cola commercials and Night Court! I made sure to speak up and catch the bartender's eye when I ordered my fourth so as to be drawn into their conversation.
It worked and let me tell you, Yakov Smirnoff is a hell of a guy. Funny, quick witted, and ready to talk with anybody. I'd never really "hung out" with a celeb before so it was all new to me. When it looked like he might leave, I bought Yakov another drink. He accepted with a broad smile and slid over to the chair next to me.
We sat and bullshitted for the best part of an hour. I was having a great time. So was he. I guess being famous, he doesn't get much of a chance to just sit and talk with regular folk like me. He'd even dressed for the occasion, his clothes were as wrinkled as mine, probably for being packed in a suitcase for so long. He was on a tour, he said, doing motivational speeches and the like for some consulting firm. He had a gig at that very hotel, the convention following mine.
Soon, we were best buds. I had just tossed down my corporate Visa to pay for our next round when I saw Yakov's head jerk up to face the bar TV. There was a commercial for that new movie with that Ali G guy, Sasha Cohen, playing his Borat-the-reporter character.
Suddenly, Yakov's smile became a little forced, a little strained. Our old bartender had long since gone off shift and his replacement, a bubbly blonde in her early 20s, looked up at the TV too and laughed. "I love that guy!" she cooed, "He's sssoooo funny! And sssoooo smart to come up with that Borat!"
I don't know if you know this, but Yakov Smirnoff has blue eyes. Cold, blue eyes. They locked on the girl, his face frozen and tense. His cheek twitched a bit, but the new bartender continued on, mistaking his attention for encouragement.
"Don't you think so? He's so original!"
I didn't even see him throw his glass, I just heard it crash. People were yelling and shouting. I got knocked off my stool as one of the hotel security guys ran in to pull Yakov off the vodka-soaked bar by the scruff of his suit. It ripped. He was flailing about, shouting something I couldn't understand.
I thought I saw blood on his hands as they dragged him out. He had ceased struggling by then, his body limp. He didn't even have enough energy left in him to cry."
Well, say what you will, but Mahir is an internet legend and a seemingly nice guy who's just being himself. His website does "suck" - that's whats funny about it- Mahir is basically a foreign AOL user!
thats cos I wrote the 2 paras separately, then combined them and didn't edit them completely. I agree that it looks pretty stupid that way. Oh well :(
I agree that Borat's character is dangerous and offensive humor, but if you can dig deeper you may find that Borat is actually a commentary on western culture, not middle eastern.
This Wired article has already been debunked, with more sources then you can shake a stick at. The bottom line is that The earliest date we can determine for Mahir Cagri's website is 1998 and the earliest known mention of Sacha Cohen's Borat character is 1994.
:P
So. Thanks Wired for reminding us of Mahir, gotta love him, and for stirring up more press about Borat. But please don't blemish Sacha Baron Cohen like this. On the DVD commentary for the first season Sacha Baron Cohen said his character was based off of a doctor he met in Russia- it's based on someone else, not Mahir. If anything that Russian has a chance to sue Cohen I suppose
In any case, any publicity is good publicity, rite?
Also, first post bitches!
I thought it might have been Disney's Roller Coaster Challenge game.. though I understand that was a predecessor to Rollercoaster Tycoon...
caveat: I didn't mean to jump down the parent's throat as much as I feel that the whole Saudi Arabia thing is an issue that doesn't get enough attention... I'm sure the leadership over there is trying though.. but the bottom line is that they are definitely a challenge for us and shaky allies at best.
Maybe you missed the memo.. but Saudi Arabia is NOT considered an ally anymore! 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were Saudi Arabian- the operation was financed by Saudi Arabians, and members of the Saudi Arabian government knew about 9/11 and were very uncooperative in helping the United States investigate 9/11 in the aftermath (mostly to cover up their involvement). Furthermore- Saudi Arabia was one of few countries to recognize the Taliban government of Afghanistan and they were actually a major source of FUNDING for them!
... this preferential treatment was also cited as something that could have prevented 9/11!
The Joint Inquiry into Intelligence Community Activities before and after the Terrorist Attacks of September 11, 2001 said point blank that the September 11 attacks could have been prevented but for the Saudi Arabian government's lack of cooperation with US investigations during the lead up to 9/11. The reason for their lack of cooperation? Because they were involved!
The main leaders of the government of Saudi Arabia may want to be allies, but they are basically under tremendous internal strife with other powers in Saudi Arabia who are anti-US, and in the end their policies are tempered by this strife to our detriment.
They were our allies before, and because of this we gave them preferential treatment, overlooking transgressions and suspect citizens visiting the US, etc
Here are some choice quotes from Joint Inquiry into Intelligence Community Activities before and after the Terrorist Attacks of September 11, 2001 for your consideration below.
Looks like this guys article is coming true...
quotes:
"According to a U. S. Government official, it was clear from about 1996 that the Saudi Government would not cooperate with the United States on matters relating to Usama Bin Ladin. **REDACTED**, reemphasized the lack of Saudi cooperation and stated that there was little prospect of future cooperation regarding Bin Ladin. **REDACTED** told the Joint Inquiry that he believed the U.S. Government's hope of eventually obtaining Saudi cooperation was unrealistic because Saudi assistance to the U.S. Government on this matter is contrary to Saudi national interests. "
"The Treasury Department General Counsel testified at the July 23, 2002 hearing about the lack of Saudi cooperation: There is an almost intuitive sense, however, that things are not being volunteered. So I want to fully inform you about it, that we have to ask and we have to seek and we have to strive. I will give you one-and-a-half examples. The first is, after some period, the Saudis have agreed to the designation of a man named Julaydin, who is notoriously involved in all of this; and his designation will be public within the next 10 days. They came forward to us two weeks ago and said, okay, we think we should go forward with the designation and a freeze order against Mr. Julaydin. We asked, what do you have on him? Because they certainly know what we have on him, because we shared it as we tried to convince them that they ought to join us. The answer back was, nothing new. . . . . . . . I think that taxes credulity, or there is another motive we are not being told. "
"A number of U. S. Government officials complained to the Joint Inquiry about a lack of Saudi cooperation in terrorism investigations both before and after the September 11 attacks.**REDACTED**. A high-level U. S. Government officer cited greater Saudi cooperation when asked how the September 11 attacks might have been prevented. In May 2001, the U.S. Government became aware that an individual in Saudi Arabia was in contact with a senior al-Qa'ida operative and was most likely aware of an upcoming al- Qa'ida o