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NASA's Rollercoaster For Moon Rocket Escape
simonbp writes "NASA's Constellation Project has approved the Rollercoaster Escape System to be used as the Emergency Egress Systems (EES) for astronauts and pad crew to race away from the Ares I pad, should an emergency be called. The Ares I is the first of NASA's new moon/Mars rockets and is scheduled for a first manned flight in 2014." From the article: "An unpowered fixed single-rail system from the access arm level of the ML tower to the existing bunker would be used. The railcars could be enclosed to provide personnel protection. Each railcar can hold four to six people. The rail would follow the ML tower vertically down to the pad surface, then turn and continue close to the ground to the safety bunker. A passive magnetic and friction braking system will decelerate the cars at the tracks end as well as prevent the cars from hitting each other."
The Republican Party has decided to use the same system to safely shuttle away incumbent lawmakers from the Whitehouse.
*phew*
Good thing you didn't read the article, or you might have missed the first post opportunity!
Be sure to assign lots of Handymen to the exit area. Sounds like this thing will have a maxed out the Nausea Rating.
How much to ride the rollercoaster?
personnel will need to pass a series of "You must be taller than this sign" tests prior to entering the launchpad area.
WHHEEEEEE!!!
I declined it as a First Post. (Did thatyesterday. :-)
I was (and am) genuinely curious as to what all the babble boils down to.
"You're young, you're drunk, you're in bed, you have knives; shit happens." -- Angelina Jolie
My first reaction was ... Is this a joke? Even the pictures, with a massive roller coaster running up the side of a booster launcher, look rather ridiculous.
But alas, this is real NASA "innovation". It seems that any device that allows the crew to jettison themselves quickly from the new rocket just increases the risks associated with it. How many malfunctions (e.g. explosions after crew entry but before liftoff) have happened in the past where this would be useful?
I view this as being about as useful as an eject seat for a passenger car. But then again, the details for this device are so hazy (and difficult to understand), that maybe I'm just not getting it.
Crack - Free with every butt and set of boobs
To use the escape system you have to egress from the spacecraft and enter the "rollercoaster". To me this seems like the ideal time for the final explosion which might have actually left the crew alive had they been in a capsule, which after all, is suposed to protect the crew in a hostile environment.
So I can see the crews weighing the risk of staying aginst the risk of trying to get away and deciding to stay.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
In essence, NASA wants to build a roller coaster up to the crew module of the next manned Mars/Moon launcher. If there was a problem (e.g. looked like the whole thing was going to blow), they could press a button and the crew would be whisked away down the roller coaster ... propelled to high speeds by technology similar to the new linear accelerator roller coasters at amusement parks.
I'd rather see NASA spend more money on developing safer vehicles, or on robotic missions, than on bizarre contraptions like this. Heck, they might as well build a loop-d-loop at the bottom so tourists can pay to ride it.
Crack - Free with every butt and set of boobs
Another mastodon overwhelmingly learns a hard lesson from the Muslim terror plot inside a vacuum cleaner, because an Iran nuclear material secret financial aid to dirty bomb London. When you see a secret prison, it means that the Jihad. Sometimes a fat grizzly bear mosque, but ammonium nitrate always gives a pink slip to some dirt-encrusted biological weapons! Sometimes a customer living with pig's daydream about blow up landmark, but an avocado pit always overwhelmingly can be kill infidels to a frustrating short order. When you see the plane hijack, it means that the infidels die. When you see a burglar suicide bomb, it means that a tripod spits out Botulism. Fake identity documents pass on terror manual.
Rollercoaster Escape System.....RES ME!!
Great new book on Evolution: The Greatest Show on Earth by Richard Dawkins
/ Slidetude System: / 'A fixed slide tube made of either metal or hard plastic/fiberglass will extend from the access arm level of the ML tower or FSS / to the existing bunker located on the west side of the pad. / 'The egress route will be across the access arm to the slide tube, down the slide tube to the bunker, and into the bunker. Each / person would enter the tube one at a time from the crew access level on the tower and slide the distance to the bunker.' The first thing that came to mind when I read this was that they could purchase the sections from McDonalds for the slide. It would have to end in a ball-pit in the bunker though.
You can fix anything with duct tape and sticks.
My idea for an escape system in very tall (WTC) buildings is to construct vertical drop tubes inside the buildings. At the bottom it would depart the vertical and follow a parabolic curve for a couple of hundred metres to bleed off speed.
In normal operation users would pay for the jump and would wear protective clothing. In emergency operation water would spray into the tube to reduce frictional heating when you hit the sides. A simple traffic control system would try to prevent collisions with people who enter the tube part of the way down.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Just imagine how crazy this would look to someone from 1950.. "Oh yes! we went to the Moon 40 years ago... this rocket is on its way to Mars.. Now, look to your left and you'll see our amazing new state of the art roller coaster escape system"
Come on NASA you can do better than this.. it is nearly 2010 !
With a headline worded like that, I sincerely hope for the astronauts' sake that Zonk is not writing the manual for this rollercoaster.
nt
"Nothing in education is so astonishing as the amount of ignorance it accumulates in the form of inert facts." - Henry A
I'd rather see NASA spend more money on developing safer vehicles, or on robotic missions, than on bizarre contraptions like this. Heck, they might as well build a loop-d-loop at the bottom so tourists can pay to ride it.
Personally, so would I. But NASA has public perception to factor in. It just doesn't spin as well to put the "First Robot on [x]" as it does to let a human give a short speech from there. This is not a stricly engineering issue. Marketing matters.
"You're young, you're drunk, you're in bed, you have knives; shit happens." -- Angelina Jolie
Look Houston, no hands!! In all seriousness, though, astronauts are already complaining about the $350 fee for the picture that is taken on the way down the MT.
Don't worry if you're a kleptomaniac, you can always take something for it.
"A simple traffic control system would try to prevent collisions with people who enter the tube part of the way down."
Oh super simple! And if you hesitate to jump into a tube that shoots straight down for 20 stories you get hit by the guy falling at terminal velocity from 20 stories up.
ohplease ohplease ohplease ohplease call an emergency PLEASE PLEASE!
Just a big excuse to train at Magic Mountain.
Looking at those pictures - I'll take my chances with the rocket thank you very much.
*runs*
So, what's the point? The current shuttle seems to have a rather serviceable, *simple* cable-based basket escape system. This new one seems way too complicated. For example, the new system: A passive magnetic and friction braking system will decelerate the cars at the tracks end as well as prevent the cars from hitting each other. The old system? The baskets hit a net at the bottom. Keep it simple, stupid.
And like someone mentioned before, the crew would actually have to exit the capsule to use this escape system. Since the Ares system actually has an escape rocket to pull the capsule away from the stack like Mercury, Gemini, Apollo had and the Soyuz has currently, I'd rather take my chances with that.
Of course, any useful background information behind this decision is behind nasaspaceflight.com's L2 pay service, so unfortunately facts on the new system are scant.
I couldn't tell you if this system was developed before or after the Apollo 1 fire, but there was a launch tower escape system that consisted of a guy wire to the ground. In an emergency the crew would evac to a tower platform and into a harness, down the guy wire and into a block house. While not as sexy a high tech roller coaster, thanks to its simplicity probably more reliable. Why make things more complex than they need to be? I tried to find some information on the web but came up empty handed.
This system is not to be confused with the Launch Escape System that sat atop the capsule, which was a couple of small rockets intended to pull the capsule away from the main rocket assembly either on the pad or in flight if there was a catastrophic failure.
I mean, 'cmon... We've been doing ejection seat type systems for what, 40 to 50 years now? These kinds of systems are very, very reliable. Other spacecraft have used similar systems. The F-111 had/has such a system if I remember correctly. The (lack of) speed for manual egress of the capsule and then letting slow gravity draw them right down past the volatile fuels/oxidizers... Not a good plan IMHO. Much better to pull them up and away immediately within a controlled and protected environment.
--- Just another Code-Monkey
anonymous idiot, 5 seconds of thought would have given you a solution. You'd need software about as complicated as elevators currently have. Basically a person would load into a drop chamber, and it would only drop the person into the tube when there was no chance of hitting or being hit by someone. The person would not decide when to drop themselves, duhhhhhhhh
There is a fine line between being a cultivated citizen and being someone else's crop. - A. J. Patrick Liszkie
Please, someone tell me why they are building these retro rockets for man mission to Mars?
NASA should be focusing on a new Shuttle capable in carrying a sizable payload to mars. Payload that can be left behind on Mars. I would leave behind a Nuclear Powered Device capable in releasing more C02 into the atmosphere. Those who don't know, releasing additional greenhouses into Mars' atmosphere might stimulate terraforming.
And oh yeah, Roller Coaster idea is a simple, inexpensive and effective way to provide escape for astronauts. And Astronaut won't loose their lunch on it either since they are trained to handle the Gs of a shuttle launching.
\
If the tube drops vertically for 1000 feet while in the building, how would the person not essentially be in a free fall and splatter once the tube starts to curve at/near the bottom?
The sun beams down on a brand new day, No more welfare tax to pay, Unsightly slums gone up in flashing light...
Beanbags
This is nuts on so many levels.
/s/moon/mars.
The system is insanely complicated for an insanely expensive program to go to MARS! Are you kidding me? They should pull the plug on the entire NASA program, and fund John Carmack and Richard Branson with the money.
The international space station is basically a big ego stroking excercise. For anyone following the actual science being conducted up there over the billions being spent, you'll instantly realize about 100x more space science could be done by others for the same cost. Seriously, someone needs to do a cost / benefit equation on NASA.
Realize that this whole put people on Mars system is the BEST program, the best idea that our BILLIONS of dollars being spent on NASA can come up. It's like they watched an old video of the plans to go to the moon, and unable to come up with any of their own ideas said
The folks actually doing real space work have it right. NASA is the dead end for space for America. While they dream up this BS, they are cutting actual science programs by the bucket load.
It seems to be missing any exhilarating features, other than the exploding 8 million pound rocket, which really seems like old hat by today's theme park standards. They should really add in a corkscrew or something.
what sig?
Its a gentle parabolic curve. Initially it might be at a few degrees from vertical so that you stick to one wall, then the curve and the acceleration build up until you are sliding horizontally.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
The title and article text is a bit misleading, as the Ares I will be used for more than just the moon and Mars... The Orion capsule on the Ares I can be configured to carry crew or supplies to the ISS, or do "solo" orbital flights, or mate with the moon/Mars vehicles lifted by the Ares V...
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Putting vertical tubes inside a building? kind of like lift shafts, which of course fill with burning fumes through which the fire spreads to other floors. i certainly would not want to get into one of these tubes in the middle of a fire. Plus it doesn't help people trapped above the fire at all, which is the main problem that needs solving with one of these escape systems.
What if Tetris was invented by Nazis?
Kind of like how the internets are routed today..:D
Everyone knows that Ares 1 is a fake project. We are never going to go back to the Moon or elsewhere this century. Manned spaceflight beyond LEO is essentially dead. Instead we are weaponizing near-space.
it doesn't help people trapped above the fire at all
Sure it does, assuming the tubes are adaquately insulated.
This is a scheme for losers. Real men go to Mars like this:
1) Test, build and launch a powerful ion-drive (no 1). Put it in Earth-orbit, let it pick up speed during a few months.
2) Build a second one (no 2), after a few months of speed-gathering around Earth send it unmanned to Mars, let it orbit there. On board it has a rocket engine and some fuel that is to be used later on.
3) Test, build and launch a space-plane with big enough wings to allow horizontal take-off. Prior to launch, be sure to put the crew in it.
4) Dock the space-plane to the orbiting ion-drive no 1, do some manoeuvering and head to Mars. This trip should go fast enough (a few weeks) because by now the ion-drive has picked up considerable speed, however admitting the docking-manoeuver. If needed an on-board rocket can be used to add extra speed. Drop the rocket once enough speed is gained.
5) Upon arriving at Mars some deceleration is needed, therefore perform a docking manoeuver with ion-drive no 2. It's on-board rocket can help the deceleration and assists also in landing the crew on solid bottom on Mars.
6) Plant the US flag and claim the whole planet just to annoy the rest of the world. Should be great fun.. Subsequently grab some dust & rocks to add a bit of scientific credibility.
7) While all this was goin on, another ion-drive no 3 (with or without a rocket & enough fuel) was also sent unmanned to Mars and put in orbit.
8) Let the crew leave Mars, again using the on-board rocket of ion-drive no 2. Just enough fuel to make the hop and dock to no 3 would do the trick.
9) Head to Earth.
10) Using the same procedure as described earlier, let them land on Earth.
This scheme certainly will appeal the public & some investors: it has some modern gizmo's, it is a tale of many exciting chapters & key-moments and it will certainly get the attention of the rest of the world, just like in old times!
less is more
You're right it was a basket of some sort. Oops. I recall that it was also featured in a Six Million Dollar Man episode when agents attempted to sabotage a Saturn rocket and they had to evacuate.
Of course with the building having been hit by an airliner, an earthquake or perhaps fire, those computer systems and associated hardware will be functioning just dandy. Lets not forget the panicing.
Double duh
Sure it does, assuming the tubes are adaquately insulated.
Of course, then you might as well make sure the stairwells have adequate insulation.
Stairwells would probably have better bandwidth overall, as you don't have to wait for the entire length of the tube to clear before you can go. (You can't just wait for the tube above you to clear, because different people would have different rates of fall, depending on type of clothing etc.) It'd just take one scaredy-cat clinging to the edge when the system is trying to let him drop to bring the whole thing to a screeching halt.
The main problems with the WTC stairways were 1) the inadequate insulation, and 2) they were too narrow. That latter factor meant that the firefighters going up the stairs were actually disrupting traffic severely, ironically costing lives as they prevented more people from escaping.
So building a wider staircase would probably be more effective than any fancy roller-coaster system. The reason such a system would (might) work for a rocket-launcher tower is that you have a small number of people involved, who would be well-trained to use it. Also, it's much more likely that an emergency situation could mean the entire thing exploding at once.
That said, I doubt this rail system will ever be used to successfully get anyone away from a rocket before it explodes. From what we've seen so far, such explosions are already underway before anyone is actually aware of a problem.
"Orthodoxy is unconsciousness" - Orwell
I've wondered how people might be able to evac very fast from a damaged skyscraper - stairs suck, they're too slow, too prone to blockage, and they crowd up in proportion to building height. So, how about copying this NASA idea and using some system of escape pods and vertical free fall roller coasters?
One chick in a leather skirt would skid to a halt and plug up the whole works.
Mass casualties in the drop tube.
Next!
Imagine if we have some terrorist, albino, nut-job that wants to blow things up. This is would've saved everyone in "Contact" for sure!
Simple solution. All chicks go down nude.
Mass gropings in the drop tube.
Next!
A simple traffic control system would try to prevent collisions with people who enter the tube part of the way down.
Yeah, I'm not so sure any traffic control system in a disaster situation could be simple. Here are the main problems, in no particular order:
1) The power will probably be out, which pretty much rules out automated physical access control.
2) The traffic control system would need some way to know who was waiting where, as well as when they entered the egress.
3) People will be panicked and unlikely to obey visual signals.
4) Anyone who does not or cannot get out of the way in time will be hit by the next person coming down. If they're incapacitated or killed by the collision, the pileup will grow very quickly -- likely faster than it could be cleared.
5) The "simple traffic control" will have to account for the rate of acceleration for people who jumped at a higher floor. Also, people who get knocked out or panic (not unlikely) may have a lower terminal velocity than those who maintain legs/arms crossed positions, which could easily lead to #4.
6) Any accident or attack near the bottom of the escape route would render it completely useless, unlike stairs where people could plausibly exit at the next higher floor above any catastrophic damage, or possibly climb down through the wreckage.
Really, it would have to be a very complicated system, and an attacker would probably be able to defeat it with little difficulty (relative to launching any sort of attack). I can't think of many accident situations where it would come in handy either, aside from a short-notice impending doom scenario. Stairs at multiple locations would probably be easier, safer, cheaper, and more effective.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
Also, some back of the hand math: Stairs can, conservatively, handle 1 person per 2 steps. If there's 20 steps per story, and it takes 30 seconds to descend each floor, that's 1 person every 3 seconds -- and that's just assuming a slow moving, well spaced, single-file line. You'd have a hard time beating that with escape tubes. It's like the old bandwidth problem. It may be faster to transmit a small amount of data over a fast network, but it's almost always faster to transport a large amount of data on a slower moving infrastructure with massive bandwidth -- AKA hard drives in a station wagon.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
That sounds like an E-Ticket[tm] ride to be sure. How long before Journey to Mars becomes Escape From the Journey to Mars at EPCOT (Every Person Comes Out Tired)?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
The WTC stairwells not only lacked insulation; but also the bunker-thick walls and support structure to have kept the planes' debris from shearing-through the spaces.
Having a thick wall or protective shell around the stair core could also allow protection for its own air and power and water systems so that if the rest of the building 'went dark' or 'went dry' that those standalone systems might keep running long enough to evacuate the structure.
With today's larger (and more populated) buildings, architects and engineers are going to have to expend more effort and resources on designing a building's "survival systems" than they have in the past.
Pretty-buildings-that-you-can't-get-out-of-in-an- emergency aren't as popular as they once were...
"It's time to take life by the cans." ~ Bender ("Bendin' in the Wind", ep. 3-13)
insightful
Did you see that thing, over the edge and straight down --whoosh-- I'd pay to ride it without a loop-d-loop.
Here in Queensland there used to be a theme park called Amazons that had a water chute "ride" that was two tubes, one shorter than the other, that you dropped through at a steep angle into a pool of water. It was called "Shotgun".
The last time I went to Seaworld on the Gold Coast I went to the water park there and went down the "Free Fall!", about four stories of a straight down drop, laughingly "inside" an open air waterslide (my little skinny arse was drifting away from the slide as I fell), into a curve at the bottom and a long horizontal into a shallow pool, where many a patron lost their togs up their butts.
The only thing that annoyed me about the Free Fall! was I was wearing board shorts (knee length shorts) and they'd mysteriously turned into dt's (speedo's for you yanks).
Despite the various problems I can imagine with the escape tube idea, I like it. The only problem you might have is keeping one guy sitting at the top blowing his whistle to let people know when to slide while his arse is getting cooked by a fire, or shaken by an earthquake. :)
Te Quiero, Puta!
... build a waterslide.
Karma: NaN
Actually I'm a Victorian. Now that your politicians are improving I might get back to Quensland and give it a go.
Oddly enough my wife (an architect) knows Daniel Grollo. She worked for him on the QV development here in Melbourne. Once the eureka tower is complete we can be pretty sure the Grollos will be on the lookout for an even bigger, more phallic tower to build and, you know, SE Queensland might just be the place to do it.
Maybe when the time comes I will send in the word about my drop tubes and then we will see what a real water slide can do.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Where have those days gone, when we could joyfully chuckle at NASA's foibles?
Ah, the halcyon days of yore. The early Mercury mistakes. The Apollo agitations. The Titan tribulations.
Darn ol' Challenger—and recently, Columbia—had to make them all serious again. Phooey.
But now, disaster spells F-U-N!
Fuel leak! Abandon the gantry! Certain death imminent! WHeeeeeeeeeee!
Though I'm certain they will approach the new evacuation system with the utmost [chuckle] sincerity.
Psst... when is our next fire drill? I'm bringin' popcorn!
This post © Copyrite Duggeek, all rights reversed.