Re:You, sir, are ignorant (retraction)
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Chase the Rabbits
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· Score: 2
but in my own defense, the comments were pretty superficial.
I'll give you that I guess.
It is hard to imagine what the world would be like without the US Revolutionary War or the US Civil War.
It's hard to imagine what our life would have been like without these things, but after our society fails (and all societies due), both events will have little meaning. The Punic wars of Rome, or the Trojan war has very little meaning on our lives today. While they may shaped shaped history, they surely didn't improve mankind.
I am not anti-war, it is necessary in some circumstances, but I do not respect it and do not believe it benefits society.
Many technologies are produced for/by the military, so without wars, perhaps technology may not progress as rapidly. (but that begs the question, does technology improve humanity)
While war improves technology, does it really improve science? War may create a faster computer, but the science of Einstein and Turing are what has improved humanity with the computer. I kind of see the military's work with technology as it's justification for the tremendous amount of money we spend on it. It's kind of the same way NASA justifies itself. Now, working in the military sector, I can definitely say that while an aweful lot is accomplished, even more is wasted.
I recently visited the Princeton Plasma Physics lab and was told by one of the chief scientists there that there budget was only a few million dollars and if they were only guarenteed that some, they would be years ahead in their search for useful fusion energy. I recently worked on a project that had a budget of a few million dollars and IMVHO, had the money for that project been diverted to this lab, humanity would be much better off. Unfortunately, I don't make those decisions.
It follows a more Zen philosophy, of just being.
I had taken what you wrote as saying that you didn't try to be great, just good. To settle for just being good. To me, one can be great, or one can not be great. There is no middle ground.
OK, we had better end this right now, or we will get modded down for having a reasonable discussion. This isn't the place for that.:-)
What's the point of hitting the cap if you can't burn karma a bit every once in a while:) What I still can't figure out, is how I had 50 prior to the above post, and then it got mod'd Troll=2, Insightful=3, Interesting=1, Overrated=2, and all the sudden, I'm at 48. Last time I checked -2 + 3 + 1 - 2 == 0. Guess Taco does math as good as he spells:)
The Linux boot sequence requires atleast 2MB of RAM because of the way it uncompresses itself. Somewhere I remember reading that it really needs atleast 4MB...
First off, you really shouldn't classify things into two categories. That makes you ignorant.
The classification was only to help better explain my point. I did not intend to define the geek world in three lines of text. It was not terribly relavent to my main idea so I did not spend much time on it. If we thoroughly explained every single aspect of what we were trying to convey, then communications would be all but impossible.
The only reason it is now "cool" to be a geek is because the everyday person uses it, and you get paid well to be one. That doesn't mean that geeks should be put on a throne and admired.
That was really the point I was trying to make. There are those that are geeks because it is the "cool" thing, and then those who have this unbelievable drive and devotion. I used Stallman as an example as he is the most obvious in this forum. If you take the time to really read what Stallman says, one cannot deny that he truely is devoted to his beliefs.
Your comments lead me to believe that you are some kind of self-worshipping, elitest A-hole. In reality, that is what a lot of tech people are, so you shouldn't feel special. Don't worry, there are a lot of other types of people who act the same way too.
Well, if you reexamine my post, I did not attack anyone on a personal level and went to great lengths to make sure I established that I respected the people in the story. Instead of just proclaiming that I'm 'self-worshipping' and an 'elitist', perhaps you should take the time to try and understand what I'm saying.
And stop with the 110% garbage. Cliche. If you are all geek, all the time, good for you. But don't expect people to automatically respect you for that.
Yes, 110% is cliche, but all cliche's are based on fact. Sometimes, the most efficent way to portray an idea to the masses is through cliche. I am not sure who, and I believe it was a chemist, but someone once said that, "The common man spends 90% of their time thinking about sex, great men spend 70%." I think it is undoubted that there are individuals who devote themselves more to what they believe in than others. I do believe that such devotion is something that deserves respect. That is why I said I respected the Navy Seal.
What dangers do you face in your life? What are YOU doing to make the world a better place? Do you think that in the end, technology is the answer? If you do, then you had better WAKE THE FUCK UP! You ask the question about the instructor "...how does his efforts make the world a better place?" That makes you seem uneducated and elitest. The fact that you may not remember those who gave their lives for YOUR FREEDOM doesn't mean that they aren't important.
I do believe that it is every man's duty to try and improve the world around him. In fact, I believe that that is the only important thing in life. Knowledge and understand are the only ways that humanity is every improved. War has existed since the dawn of time, and long periods of war never improve humanity. Humanity improves when intellectual revolutions occur. Things like the Italian Renessiance, the invention of the printing press, the Industrial Revolution, the growth of the internet, etc., are the things that have improved humanity.
And I ask you, what does it mean to give one's life for freedom? I would say that it is more honorable to devote one's life to freedom. Surely, if former was the most honorable cause, then the solidiers who raped and devistated villages in Vietnam are more honorable than George Washington, since he died of natural causes and they may have died in battle? And of course, those who choose to fight in unjust wars (such as the Mexican-American war) are more honorable than those who refuse to support it (such as Henry David Thoreau)? Our society likes to idealize those who fight wars. Perhaps it is because people can related best to those individuals and feel that is the easiest way for them to obtain such status, but let me assure you, humanity has never once been improved by war (although one could argue that humanity is maintained by war).
They are the unsung heros who lazy bastards like you take advantage of every day as you give your "110%" to a luxury like technology.
Bit ironic to refute my argument with a cliche while also critizing my use of cliche;-)
Revolutionary! Bah. RMS may be a revolutionary, but you have to have something to revolt against, that that something was possible because of people in the military, government, artists, musicians, etc. You think technology built this country? It was the comman person, who busted their ass farming, working in factories, fixing your car, cooking your food, teaching you, RAISING YOUR ASS from a snotty nosed kid to a snotty nosed adult. Why don't you give credit where credit is due, instead of going through life with tunnel-vision?
I choose RMS as an example because he is the most notoriable figure in such a forum. I do believe RMS respects someone who has devoted themselves entirely to a cause (and at great loss) that he believes in strongly. I agree with his views for the most part, but I disagree with some. Either way, it is undeniable that he will secure at least a similiar place in history as Henry Ford although I doubt he will achieve the same kind of pristage as say, Gutenberg.
Damn. Maybe I am reading too much into your weak comments, but you touched on something. For the most part, most of the tech people I know are physically lazy. Sure, they can code for 6 hours straight, and they can focus all their attention on one problem, but they usually can only function around other people like them. Why be ignorant of everything else?
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume something I wrote sparked some deep emotions in you.
I know that there are specialists in every field, and there are tech specialists too who are the best at what they do. But that isn't everyone. If you aren't one of these people (and chances are you aren't) then you should expand yourself. Learn about other things.
My belief in life is pretty simple. I believe it is every man's duty to try and improve the world around him. I believe the advancement of knowledge is the only way to improve that world. To me, a man should spend a great portion of his time studying to learn what others have contributed, and also should try and share his views with the world. I post frequently to/. because I believe it is important to speak one's mind.
Get off your ass and go to a museum (of real art, not anime!). Read a book that doesn't have to do with cryptography or a programming language. Go in the kitchen and cook, instead of dialing the phone or having your mommy cook something for you. DO SOMETHING ELSE!!! Why are you sitting in front of that PS2 or Xbox for 5 hours straight? Yeah, it's fun. Why do you do it every day? What, may I ask, is that going to do to make the world a better place?
Well, again, I believe your post was seeded mostly with emotion, but I do agree with what you say here. I despise video games and do also believe it is important to have a varied education. Of course, I would not put much value in an art museum, but that is an entirely different discussion:)
You may be asking yourself "who is this prick? He is probably a hypocrite." Some may think that. I certainly don't claim to be the most well-rounded person, but I realize that every day and try to fix it. I don't have delusions of grandeur, I don't try to be great.
It saddens me that you would say such a thing. If you do not live your life trying to be the best you possible can be, then why live at all? Thoreau once said,
When we consider what, to use the words of the catechism, is the chief end of man, and what are the true necessaries and means of life, it appears as if men had deliberately chosen the common mode of living because they preferred it to any other. Yet they honestly think there is no choice left. But alert and healthy natures remember that the sun rose clear. It is never too late to give up our prejudices. No way of thinking or doing, however ancient, can be trusted without proof. What everybody echoes or in sliences passes by as true to-day may turn out to be falsehood to-morrow, mere smoke of opinion, which some had trusted for a cloud that would sprinkle fertilizing rain on their fields.
I try not to be an arrogant prick when I am right. I love to learn new things. I try to get stuck in one thing. It is boring!!!!! Don't be a boring person. Make this a better world by improving yourself, physically, mentally, spiritually, philosophically, technologically.... The list goes on. If you can speak out of some kind of experience, then I may be more apt to listen to you, but don't try and put other people down without having some kind of knowledge of what you are talking about. It is OK to not say anything. Just shut up and listen, you may learn something.
Perhaps you should consider your own words. I wouldn't put too much value on experience though. I won't go into here, but you should read "The Transcendentalist," by Ralph Waldo Emerson.
OK, I am getting tired of typing. If you ever met me, you would never guess that this rant is coming out of me, because I am the quiet guy. But by being quiet I listen and learn.
The greatest sin a man can commit is to keep his ideas to himself. Sometimes my greatest sadness comes when considering how much greatest was lost in the world from those who simply hestitated to share their ideas. Actually, as much as I regret posting something that would cause you to react with such emotion, I do feel somewhat justified in knowing that it at least provoked you to enter into the discussion.
Maybe I have just been trapped in SUVland suburbian hell for too long.
If you feel like reading something good, I suggest picking up "Walden" by Henry David Thoreau. If you have read it, reread it. If you are unfamiliar with it, it is an account of his time spent in solitude by Walden pond. It is one of the best pieces of literature I have yet read.
No disrepect intended towards Geeks or anyone else - I never meant that Geeks only give 50% - quite the opposite - Geeks, by nature, are very competitive. They believe in their ideas, and they like to win.
What I was referring to was the general idea of the most of the posts at the time which was leading to: "Man, geeks waste their time and should be out exercising."
I am simple trying to illustrate that there are better ways to spend one's time. I have to say, I think everyone - including geeks - do not even give nearly 50% of themselves. I do not think that would change though if everyone went out and joined the military or attempted similiar training routines.
The other point I was trying to make is that it would be better for society if instead of finding oneself by hardcore exercise, one found themself through hardcore learning.
So, the side effect of exercise is that one develops greater self-discipline and learning how to work with individuals.
Now, this is the side effect of vanity, as you yourself point out. My entire point is that there are people out there would develop those skills as the direct effect of trying to obtain them. In my very humble opinion, that is much more respectable.
Then ask her who Plato is, or Socrates. Ask her where they are from. Ask her who Rosseau is, or who Gutenberg is. Then ask her who Brittany Spears is.
That is not a reflection on Stallman, but a reflection on the ignorance of the common man. It doesn't matter if the comman man remembers Stallman, but I do believe that most people in technology will remember him, and thats all thats important.
I almost forgot to add - but it was a pleasure and and honor to protect you and your type for 10 years of my life.
You're welcome.
Man, I'm sorry, I didn't realize you fought for this country with your bare hands and defeated all the countries that are attacking us by swimming across the Atlantic or Pacific.
Come on. The guns that solidiers use, the software that gathers and analyzes data from the radar, the missiles and their guidance systems. Where do you think that comes from? I had the pleasure of working on software for the Navy and the thing that always bothered me was that while all the programmers truely respects the solidiers that went out and used the software, few respected the incredible effort that alot of these guys put into getting the software to work.
A lot of these guys work countless hours for little pay because they believe in what they are doing. A solidier is useless without technology. Take a look at Desert Storm, or Operation Infinite Justice. I'm sorry if I ask for a little respect to be paid to the guys who spend 10 years of their lives without taking vacation making 30K a year so that these ultimately heoric solidiers can fly a plain and push a button to drop a bomb.
I have a good deal of respect for military personnel but they really tend to have such inflated egos.
I'd say even just the one two week course that may improve the fitness level (or even just attitude) of 20 or so people is more important than any LIMS I may code.
If the code you are referring to is a new version of Duke Nukem or some silly number game then I may agree. If the code you are referring to is software to help poor schools use the internet or to allow individuals to collabrate throughout the world to improve technology, then I have to disagree with you.
This guy surely didn't sound obese to me when he started this thing. He was looking for vanity weight loss. Such weight loss is highly overrated by society today. Most people don't realize that a guy with 7% body fat is not neccessarily healther than a guy with 10% fat. In fact, body fat does provide a useful function and having such a low amount of it is taking a gamble with one's health.
In any case, doing hard things that you like, is easy. It really is, precisely because you are so dedicated to it, is it possible to stay up for 3 days coding and not think of it as "hard." It's doing things that you don't like, and which are hard, that's difficult.
The love that I'm referring to is the sharing of ideas. The 3 day coding binges are not anymore enjoyable than the pushups this guy was doing. Its typing, its monatous, but its neccessary.
I think most people have trouble understanding what I say because while they have truely worked out there body at least once in their life, they have not truely worked out their mind. To me, that is much more depressing of the two. The human mind is the only thing that man was given over the animals. To neglect and abuse it perhaps the greatest sin man can commit.
Do you really think most solidiers are in any more danger than an 18 year old male?
I don't think people understand how many solidiers there are out there that never, ever, see combat. The percentage that will never see combat is staggering.
If there is a war were a significant amount of solidiers will be called into action and are likely to be in danger, then the draft will be started.
Note: My example of the second type of geek was Stallman. By all accounts, Stallman gave up a great deal of finicial rewards to do something that he thought would better humanity. I'm sorry, but that kind of dedication and commitment far exceeds the commitment of a solidier who was conditioned to fire at a target by a screaming drill sargent.
Exercise is an interesting thing to me. I am not out of shaped (I watch what I eat and lead a somewhat active life) but I am not in wonderful shape either. I believe that life should be lived to its fullest possible extent. If given the choice between exercising to obtain a 'six-pack' or reading a book I will read the book.
To me, reading a book is something that is going to improve myself for the rest of my life. Working out is a fleeting improvement at best and serves little purpose other than vanity (unless of course one is obese).
Remember though, healthy weight is a pretty wide range and doesn't mean 7% body fat. A person who exercises constantly can actually be more unhealthy than one who just watchs the things they eat.
Well, I work on the software that runs all the Navy ships and I've seen alot of programmers bust their asses to get the stuff to work.
Without that software, it doesn't matter how tought these guys are because they would get raped in the field just as the Taliban is getting raped in Afganstian.
Don't get me wrong, I respect these guys (I work with lots of them) but I'm just saying that there are programmers that work just as hard, and harder, than these guys. It's just a different kind of work.
The first is the simpsons watching, game playing, cube farm dwelling geek who likes lots of remote controls and whose programming is limited to the stuff at work.
The second type are the ones who do devote 110% of themselves to something they love.
Four day straight coding binges, countless hours of research and self-education IMHO far exceed the effort put forth by soldiers for one simply reason. There is no instructor screaming at this person to force them to give so much.
Don't get me wrong, I do have a great deal of respect for people who can go through this, but I am a little disturbed at the suggestion that this being a geek simply means that one gives "50%" of themselves and sits around playing with their cats all day.
That instructor may seem like a tough guy, but in reality, how does his efforts make the world a better place? Sure, the military is important, but militaries are only relavant to the present. Colin Powell may be remember as a great leader, perhaps for a few decades, but I truely believe that Richard Stallman will have a place in history as a revolutionary (atleast, for a century or so).
Since plants are also organic, you might be able to make the culture out of soybeans or something.
So is coal but that doesn't mean you can grow meat in coal.
The point is that since the culture medium is not inorganic, it must come from a living source. I would expect the/. crowd to be smart enough to figure out that the only via organic culture medium would come from some kind of animal by-product.
That is regrettable because an open source Java equivalent of ECMA C# would have been available years ago if only a standard equivalent to ECMA C# had been created for Java.
It wouldn't have even taken that much for there to be a Free Software version of Java. Because Sun released Java under there horrible shared source-like license, Kaffe had a whole world of trouble preventing IP pollution.
I could go for that -- for non-steakeaters, the filet is a prized cut because it's tender.
Screw the traditional cuts of meat. Just by analyzing what makes meat taste good (as you point out in your post), we could make _even_ better tasting meats. It seems reasonable to me that in the future, meat the highest quality meats would be lab-grown.
I don't know about the whole vegan thing though, the culture has to be organic in some way so animals would still be killed probably...
I don't think you understand Civil Disobedience very well... Here is a link to Thoreau's essay on the matter.
Civil Disobedience isn't breaking a law that you disagree with, but rather breaking a law that would force you to go against your own morals. It's the refusal to obey a law that you consider unjust. Take the following quote from Thoreau:
If the injustice is part of the neccessary friction of the machine of government let it go, let it go; perchance it will wear smooth; certainly it will wear out. If the injustice has a string, or a pulley, or a spring, or a crank exclusively for its own use, then perhaps you may consider whether the remedy will be worse than the evil. But if it is of such a nature that it
requires you to be the agent of injustice to another then I say break the law.
There has to be very good justification for breaking the law according to Thoreau. I do not think one can make the argument that copyright law is not one of the "neccessary frictions" of government.
What you can do is write letters to your representatives or follow the other democratic means to resolve the issue. In the very least, do not mask your lawlessness under the guise of great men.
BTW: When Dante wrote the Inferno, he was seriously questioning his faith in the church because of its corruption. There are many allusions to the corruption of the church in it along with many questions of whether or not the church was even neccessary (which seemed to be the vogue idea at the time).
Ok, but why does a National ID card do anyone any good? Just as individuals can forge passports they will be just as able to forge ID cards. In fact, making things electronic just give the potential for individuals to hijack other individuals identities more rapidly.
It's not just a matter of privacy, but of usefulness. It's sort of like the gun-control argument whereas people argue that making it harder to obtain a gun permit will keep guns away from criminals. Well, hate to burst everyone's bubble, but criminals never got friggin permits to begin with!
Likewise, a terrorist isn't going to be stopped by a 'National ID' card. If I really thought it would protect the country from terrorists, I would let Doubleclick.com stick a tracking probe up my ass. The fact of the matter is, this is just rheotric that is only gonna to cause more harm and headache for the average Joe.
Do you have one of those obnoxious newbies programmers who fancies himself a total hax0r, creating variable names like "it3r80R" when a simple "i" would do, or putting hundreds of little in-jokes and wisecracks throughout the comments? If so, he's got to cut that shit out.
In my experience, peer review is more important here than methodology. In fact, methodology can afford to be rather sparse (and it should be for most circumstances) when peer review is relied upon.
Peer review is good because it helps good programmers become better programmers and at the same time, stops bad programmers from doing really stupid things. I think documentation is something that should be done, for the most part, after a project is close to completion.
For instance, we followed the standard procedure of design, then implementation, etc., etc.. Problem was that the people who did the design and implementation, weren't a part of the maintenience phase and all that design stuff was no where near how things were actually implemented.
It's really something that can't be avoided. Code tends to have a mind of it's own once it's written. There's a bit of a chaotic factor in it to where the slightest unforeseen bug in the most obscure case senario leads into a huge design problem.
Besides, it's alot easier to manage with a working product with poor documentation that it is to manage with a broken product, and acceptable documentation (or even good for that matter).
I had heard something about this on NPR. I do not believe they indeed on trying to use the power to power homes and such, but instead, to run a desalinization plant to provide freshwater to remote places.
It becomes cost effective because it would be overly expensive to provide power out to these remote areas which desparately need fresh water. It supposedly opens up a whole bunch of land to agriculture that was unusable before.
I remember hearing about this being done before for some third world country but it failing miserably because of storms and such.
Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to find much info on google so I could be mistaken.
"A man is not a good man to me because he will feed me if I should be starving, or warm me if I should be freezing, or pull me out of a ditch if I should ever fall into one. I can find you a Newfoundland dog that will do as much... What are a hundred [philanthropers] to us, if their philanthropy do not help us in our best state, when we are most worthy to be helped?"
- Henry David Thoreau, "Walden"
Philanthropy does not improve humanity. Sharing ideas with other intellegent people truely does improve humanity. Free Software is about open collabration which leads to ideas being innovated and advanced in a far greater manner than a single person could ever accomplish. We succeed as a species not because we are individually great but because together we become great.
I respect someone who devotes their life selflessly to helping the poor survive, but I admire someone who devotes their life selflessly to the advancement of humanity.
If it's at work, well, a company agrees to a EULA so it doesn't affect you, the employee.
If it's at home, Linux is more than capable of communicating completely with any Windows box.
If it's at home and there is some reason why Linux can't be installed _permantly_, SUSE and RedHat have CD based runtime distributions not to mention the fact that Linux can be ran from a file on a Windows partition. There is really no reason why someone can't use Linux other than that they are not trying hard enough.
BTW: You say you want to stay away from XP, but what in the world could not make you feel the same way about every other version of Windows?
Fact of the matter is, Linux is more robust, reliable, and secure than Windows. There is no excuse for someone to use Windows over Linux. I personally don't care if people use Windows. If people _choose_ to use Windows though, then they have no right to complain _especially_ in the face of all the hard work that so many have put in to GNU/Linux in order to provide an alternative.
Because of this, many people feel that voting for a 3rd party candidate is equivalent to throwing their vote away.
Ok, so let's use a simple analogy to explain this:
I give you two choices 1) you can give me all your money and rape your family or 2) you can give me all your money and I will kill your family.
Now, does that mean that choice 1) is morally acceptable as it may be the lesser of the two evils? Absolute not. At this point, it one's moral obligation to deny either choice. Civil disobidience in a certain sense. Just as so many great men in this country have done when asked to choose between unjustice laws.
Henry David Thoreau said that we must, "be men first, and then Americans." One only truly throws away their vote when they vote for someone they do not believe in.
I'm tired of hearing people bitch about Windows. Linux is a better OS. You have no excuse. Go and buy RedHat and stop bitching about the MS EULA.
It reminds me of all those people who bitch about voting because we have a "two party system" and then on election day, they still vote for democrats or republicans. Either your part of the problem or the solution.
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but in my own defense, the comments were pretty superficial.
:-)
:) What I still can't figure out, is how I had 50 prior to the above post, and then it got mod'd Troll=2, Insightful=3, Interesting=1, Overrated=2, and all the sudden, I'm at 48. Last time I checked -2 + 3 + 1 - 2 == 0. Guess Taco does math as good as he spells :)
I'll give you that I guess.
It is hard to imagine what the world would be like without the US Revolutionary War or the US Civil War.
It's hard to imagine what our life would have been like without these things, but after our society fails (and all societies due), both events will have little meaning. The Punic wars of Rome, or the Trojan war has very little meaning on our lives today. While they may shaped shaped history, they surely didn't improve mankind.
I am not anti-war, it is necessary in some circumstances, but I do not respect it and do not believe it benefits society.
Many technologies are produced for/by the military, so without wars, perhaps technology may not progress as rapidly. (but that begs the question, does technology improve humanity)
While war improves technology, does it really improve science? War may create a faster computer, but the science of Einstein and Turing are what has improved humanity with the computer. I kind of see the military's work with technology as it's justification for the tremendous amount of money we spend on it. It's kind of the same way NASA justifies itself. Now, working in the military sector, I can definitely say that while an aweful lot is accomplished, even more is wasted.
I recently visited the Princeton Plasma Physics lab and was told by one of the chief scientists there that there budget was only a few million dollars and if they were only guarenteed that some, they would be years ahead in their search for useful fusion energy. I recently worked on a project that had a budget of a few million dollars and IMVHO, had the money for that project been diverted to this lab, humanity would be much better off. Unfortunately, I don't make those decisions.
It follows a more Zen philosophy, of just being.
I had taken what you wrote as saying that you didn't try to be great, just good. To settle for just being good. To me, one can be great, or one can not be great. There is no middle ground.
OK, we had better end this right now, or we will get modded down for having a reasonable discussion. This isn't the place for that.
What's the point of hitting the cap if you can't burn karma a bit every once in a while
Linux: 386/16 with 1 MB RAM
The Linux boot sequence requires atleast 2MB of RAM because of the way it uncompresses itself. Somewhere I remember reading that it really needs atleast 4MB...
The classification was only to help better explain my point. I did not intend to define the geek world in three lines of text. It was not terribly relavent to my main idea so I did not spend much time on it. If we thoroughly explained every single aspect of what we were trying to convey, then communications would be all but impossible.
The only reason it is now "cool" to be a geek is because the everyday person uses it, and you get paid well to be one. That doesn't mean that geeks should be put on a throne and admired.
That was really the point I was trying to make. There are those that are geeks because it is the "cool" thing, and then those who have this unbelievable drive and devotion. I used Stallman as an example as he is the most obvious in this forum. If you take the time to really read what Stallman says, one cannot deny that he truely is devoted to his beliefs.
Your comments lead me to believe that you are some kind of self-worshipping, elitest A-hole. In reality, that is what a lot of tech people are, so you shouldn't feel special. Don't worry, there are a lot of other types of people who act the same way too.
Well, if you reexamine my post, I did not attack anyone on a personal level and went to great lengths to make sure I established that I respected the people in the story. Instead of just proclaiming that I'm 'self-worshipping' and an 'elitist', perhaps you should take the time to try and understand what I'm saying.
And stop with the 110% garbage. Cliche. If you are all geek, all the time, good for you. But don't expect people to automatically respect you for that.
Yes, 110% is cliche, but all cliche's are based on fact. Sometimes, the most efficent way to portray an idea to the masses is through cliche. I am not sure who, and I believe it was a chemist, but someone once said that, "The common man spends 90% of their time thinking about sex, great men spend 70%." I think it is undoubted that there are individuals who devote themselves more to what they believe in than others. I do believe that such devotion is something that deserves respect. That is why I said I respected the Navy Seal.
What dangers do you face in your life? What are YOU doing to make the world a better place? Do you think that in the end, technology is the answer? If you do, then you had better WAKE THE FUCK UP! You ask the question about the instructor "...how does his efforts make the world a better place?" That makes you seem uneducated and elitest. The fact that you may not remember those who gave their lives for YOUR FREEDOM doesn't mean that they aren't important.
I do believe that it is every man's duty to try and improve the world around him. In fact, I believe that that is the only important thing in life. Knowledge and understand are the only ways that humanity is every improved. War has existed since the dawn of time, and long periods of war never improve humanity. Humanity improves when intellectual revolutions occur. Things like the Italian Renessiance, the invention of the printing press, the Industrial Revolution, the growth of the internet, etc., are the things that have improved humanity.
And I ask you, what does it mean to give one's life for freedom? I would say that it is more honorable to devote one's life to freedom. Surely, if former was the most honorable cause, then the solidiers who raped and devistated villages in Vietnam are more honorable than George Washington, since he died of natural causes and they may have died in battle? And of course, those who choose to fight in unjust wars (such as the Mexican-American war) are more honorable than those who refuse to support it (such as Henry David Thoreau)? Our society likes to idealize those who fight wars. Perhaps it is because people can related best to those individuals and feel that is the easiest way for them to obtain such status, but let me assure you, humanity has never once been improved by war (although one could argue that humanity is maintained by war).
They are the unsung heros who lazy bastards like you take advantage of every day as you give your "110%" to a luxury like technology.
Bit ironic to refute my argument with a cliche while also critizing my use of cliche
Revolutionary! Bah. RMS may be a revolutionary, but you have to have something to revolt against, that that something was possible because of people in the military, government, artists, musicians, etc. You think technology built this country? It was the comman person, who busted their ass farming, working in factories, fixing your car, cooking your food, teaching you, RAISING YOUR ASS
from a snotty nosed kid to a snotty nosed adult. Why don't you give credit where credit is due, instead of going through life with tunnel-vision?
I choose RMS as an example because he is the most notoriable figure in such a forum. I do believe RMS respects someone who has devoted themselves entirely to a cause (and at great loss) that he believes in strongly. I agree with his views for the most part, but I disagree with some. Either way, it is undeniable that he will secure at least a similiar place in history as Henry Ford although I doubt he will achieve the same kind of pristage as say, Gutenberg.
Damn. Maybe I am reading too much into your weak comments, but you touched on something. For the most part, most of the tech people I know are physically lazy. Sure, they can code for 6 hours straight, and they can focus all their attention on one problem, but they usually can only function around other people like them. Why be ignorant of everything else?
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume something I wrote sparked some deep emotions in you.
I know that there are specialists in every field, and there are tech specialists too who are the best at what they do. But that isn't everyone. If you aren't one of these people (and chances are you aren't) then you should expand yourself. Learn about other things.
My belief in life is pretty simple. I believe it is every man's duty to try and improve the world around him. I believe the advancement of knowledge is the only way to improve that world. To me, a man should spend a great portion of his time studying to learn what others have contributed, and also should try and share his views with the world. I post frequently to
Get off your ass and go to a museum (of real art, not anime!). Read a book that doesn't have to do with cryptography or a programming language. Go in the kitchen and cook, instead of dialing the phone or having your mommy cook something for you. DO SOMETHING ELSE!!! Why are you sitting in front of that PS2 or Xbox for 5 hours straight? Yeah, it's fun. Why do you do it every day? What, may I ask, is that going to do to make the world a better place?
Well, again, I believe your post was seeded mostly with emotion, but I do agree with what you say here. I despise video games and do also believe it is important to have a varied education. Of course, I would not put much value in an art museum, but that is an entirely different discussion
You may be asking yourself "who is this prick? He is probably a hypocrite." Some may think that. I certainly don't claim to be the most well-rounded person, but I realize that every day and try to fix it. I don't have delusions of grandeur, I don't try to be great.
It saddens me that you would say such a thing. If you do not live your life trying to be the best you possible can be, then why live at all? Thoreau once said,
I try not to be an arrogant prick when I am right. I love to learn new things. I try to get stuck in one thing. It is boring!!!!! Don't be a boring person. Make this a better world by improving yourself, physically, mentally, spiritually, philosophically, technologically.... The list goes on. If you can speak out of some kind of experience, then I may be more apt to listen to you, but don't try and put other people down without having some kind of knowledge of what you are talking about. It is OK to not say anything. Just shut up and listen, you may learn something.
Perhaps you should consider your own words. I wouldn't put too much value on experience though. I won't go into here, but you should read "The Transcendentalist," by Ralph Waldo Emerson.
OK, I am getting tired of typing. If you ever met me, you would never guess that this rant is coming out of me, because I am the quiet guy. But by being quiet I listen and learn.
The greatest sin a man can commit is to keep his ideas to himself. Sometimes my greatest sadness comes when considering how much greatest was lost in the world from those who simply hestitated to share their ideas. Actually, as much as I regret posting something that would cause you to react with such emotion, I do feel somewhat justified in knowing that it at least provoked you to enter into the discussion.
Maybe I have just been trapped in SUVland suburbian hell for too long.
If you feel like reading something good, I suggest picking up "Walden" by Henry David Thoreau. If you have read it, reread it. If you are unfamiliar with it, it is an account of his time spent in solitude by Walden pond. It is one of the best pieces of literature I have yet read.
No disrepect intended towards Geeks or anyone else - I never meant that Geeks only give 50% - quite the opposite - Geeks, by nature, are very competitive. They believe in their ideas, and they like to win.
What I was referring to was the general idea of the most of the posts at the time which was leading to: "Man, geeks waste their time and should be out exercising."
I am simple trying to illustrate that there are better ways to spend one's time. I have to say, I think everyone - including geeks - do not even give nearly 50% of themselves. I do not think that would change though if everyone went out and joined the military or attempted similiar training routines.
The other point I was trying to make is that it would be better for society if instead of finding oneself by hardcore exercise, one found themself through hardcore learning.
So, the side effect of exercise is that one develops greater self-discipline and learning how to work with individuals.
Now, this is the side effect of vanity, as you yourself point out. My entire point is that there are people out there would develop those skills as the direct effect of trying to obtain them. In my very humble opinion, that is much more respectable.
Then ask her who Plato is, or Socrates. Ask her where they are from. Ask her who Rosseau is, or who Gutenberg is. Then ask her who Brittany Spears is.
That is not a reflection on Stallman, but a reflection on the ignorance of the common man. It doesn't matter if the comman man remembers Stallman, but I do believe that most people in technology will remember him, and thats all thats important.
I almost forgot to add - but it was a pleasure and and honor to protect you and your type for 10 years of my life.
You're welcome.
Man, I'm sorry, I didn't realize you fought for this country with your bare hands and defeated all the countries that are attacking us by swimming across the Atlantic or Pacific.
Come on. The guns that solidiers use, the software that gathers and analyzes data from the radar, the missiles and their guidance systems. Where do you think that comes from? I had the pleasure of working on software for the Navy and the thing that always bothered me was that while all the programmers truely respects the solidiers that went out and used the software, few respected the incredible effort that alot of these guys put into getting the software to work.
A lot of these guys work countless hours for little pay because they believe in what they are doing. A solidier is useless without technology. Take a look at Desert Storm, or Operation Infinite Justice. I'm sorry if I ask for a little respect to be paid to the guys who spend 10 years of their lives without taking vacation making 30K a year so that these ultimately heoric solidiers can fly a plain and push a button to drop a bomb.
I have a good deal of respect for military personnel but they really tend to have such inflated egos.
I'd say even just the one two week course that may improve the fitness level (or even just attitude) of 20 or so people is more important than any LIMS I may code.
If the code you are referring to is a new version of Duke Nukem or some silly number game then I may agree. If the code you are referring to is software to help poor schools use the internet or to allow individuals to collabrate throughout the world to improve technology, then I have to disagree with you.
This guy surely didn't sound obese to me when he started this thing. He was looking for vanity weight loss. Such weight loss is highly overrated by society today. Most people don't realize that a guy with 7% body fat is not neccessarily healther than a guy with 10% fat. In fact, body fat does provide a useful function and having such a low amount of it is taking a gamble with one's health.
In any case, doing hard things that you like, is easy. It really is, precisely because you are so dedicated to it, is it possible to stay up for 3 days coding and not think of it as "hard." It's doing things that you don't like, and which are hard, that's difficult.
The love that I'm referring to is the sharing of ideas. The 3 day coding binges are not anymore enjoyable than the pushups this guy was doing. Its typing, its monatous, but its neccessary.
I think most people have trouble understanding what I say because while they have truely worked out there body at least once in their life, they have not truely worked out their mind. To me, that is much more depressing of the two. The human mind is the only thing that man was given over the animals. To neglect and abuse it perhaps the greatest sin man can commit.
Do you really think most solidiers are in any more danger than an 18 year old male?
I don't think people understand how many solidiers there are out there that never, ever, see combat. The percentage that will never see combat is staggering.
If there is a war were a significant amount of solidiers will be called into action and are likely to be in danger, then the draft will be started.
Note: My example of the second type of geek was Stallman. By all accounts, Stallman gave up a great deal of finicial rewards to do something that he thought would better humanity. I'm sorry, but that kind of dedication and commitment far exceeds the commitment of a solidier who was conditioned to fire at a target by a screaming drill sargent.
Exercise is an interesting thing to me. I am not out of shaped (I watch what I eat and lead a somewhat active life) but I am not in wonderful shape either. I believe that life should be lived to its fullest possible extent. If given the choice between exercising to obtain a 'six-pack' or reading a book I will read the book.
To me, reading a book is something that is going to improve myself for the rest of my life. Working out is a fleeting improvement at best and serves little purpose other than vanity (unless of course one is obese).
Remember though, healthy weight is a pretty wide range and doesn't mean 7% body fat. A person who exercises constantly can actually be more unhealthy than one who just watchs the things they eat.
Well, I work on the software that runs all the Navy ships and I've seen alot of programmers bust their asses to get the stuff to work.
Without that software, it doesn't matter how tought these guys are because they would get raped in the field just as the Taliban is getting raped in Afganstian.
Don't get me wrong, I respect these guys (I work with lots of them) but I'm just saying that there are programmers that work just as hard, and harder, than these guys. It's just a different kind of work.
Actually you make tofu out of soybeans.
The simply fact is that it far easier to provide essential proteins via meat than it is to provide them through plants.
More importantly, we have evolved to eat meat. It is part of being human. Embrace it, enjoy it.
There are really two types of geeks:
The first is the simpsons watching, game playing, cube farm dwelling geek who likes lots of remote controls and whose programming is limited to the stuff at work.
The second type are the ones who do devote 110% of themselves to something they love.
Four day straight coding binges, countless hours of research and self-education IMHO far exceed the effort put forth by soldiers for one simply reason. There is no instructor screaming at this person to force them to give so much.
Don't get me wrong, I do have a great deal of respect for people who can go through this, but I am a little disturbed at the suggestion that this being a geek simply means that one gives "50%" of themselves and sits around playing with their cats all day.
That instructor may seem like a tough guy, but in reality, how does his efforts make the world a better place? Sure, the military is important, but militaries are only relavant to the present. Colin Powell may be remember as a great leader, perhaps for a few decades, but I truely believe that Richard Stallman will have a place in history as a revolutionary (atleast, for a century or so).
Since plants are also organic, you might be able to make the culture out of soybeans or something.
/. crowd to be smart enough to figure out that the only via organic culture medium would come from some kind of animal by-product.
So is coal but that doesn't mean you can grow meat in coal.
The point is that since the culture medium is not inorganic, it must come from a living source. I would expect the
That is regrettable because an open source Java equivalent of ECMA C# would have been available years ago if only a standard equivalent to ECMA C# had been created for Java.
It wouldn't have even taken that much for there to be a Free Software version of Java. Because Sun released Java under there horrible shared source-like license, Kaffe had a whole world of trouble preventing IP pollution.
It's really ashame.
I could go for that -- for non-steakeaters, the filet is a prized cut because it's tender.
Screw the traditional cuts of meat. Just by analyzing what makes meat taste good (as you point out in your post), we could make _even_ better tasting meats. It seems reasonable to me that in the future, meat the highest quality meats would be lab-grown.
I don't know about the whole vegan thing though, the culture has to be organic in some way so animals would still be killed probably...
Civil Disobedience isn't breaking a law that you disagree with, but rather breaking a law that would force you to go against your own morals. It's the refusal to obey a law that you consider unjust. Take the following quote from Thoreau:
There has to be very good justification for breaking the law according to Thoreau. I do not think one can make the argument that copyright law is not one of the "neccessary frictions" of government.
What you can do is write letters to your representatives or follow the other democratic means to resolve the issue. In the very least, do not mask your lawlessness under the guise of great men.
BTW: When Dante wrote the Inferno, he was seriously questioning his faith in the church because of its corruption. There are many allusions to the corruption of the church in it along with many questions of whether or not the church was even neccessary (which seemed to be the vogue idea at the time).
"LASCIATE OGNE SPERANZA, VOI CH'INTRATE."
Worth learning Italian just for the one quote
Ok, but why does a National ID card do anyone any good? Just as individuals can forge passports they will be just as able to forge ID cards. In fact, making things electronic just give the potential for individuals to hijack other individuals identities more rapidly.
It's not just a matter of privacy, but of usefulness. It's sort of like the gun-control argument whereas people argue that making it harder to obtain a gun permit will keep guns away from criminals. Well, hate to burst everyone's bubble, but criminals never got friggin permits to begin with!
Likewise, a terrorist isn't going to be stopped by a 'National ID' card. If I really thought it would protect the country from terrorists, I would let Doubleclick.com stick a tracking probe up my ass. The fact of the matter is, this is just rheotric that is only gonna to cause more harm and headache for the average Joe.
Do you have one of those obnoxious newbies programmers who fancies himself a total hax0r, creating variable names like "it3r80R" when a simple "i" would do, or putting hundreds of little in-jokes and wisecracks throughout the comments? If so, he's got to cut that shit out.
In my experience, peer review is more important here than methodology. In fact, methodology can afford to be rather sparse (and it should be for most circumstances) when peer review is relied upon.
Peer review is good because it helps good programmers become better programmers and at the same time, stops bad programmers from doing really stupid things. I think documentation is something that should be done, for the most part, after a project is close to completion.
For instance, we followed the standard procedure of design, then implementation, etc., etc.. Problem was that the people who did the design and implementation, weren't a part of the maintenience phase and all that design stuff was no where near how things were actually implemented.
It's really something that can't be avoided. Code tends to have a mind of it's own once it's written. There's a bit of a chaotic factor in it to where the slightest unforeseen bug in the most obscure case senario leads into a huge design problem.
Besides, it's alot easier to manage with a working product with poor documentation that it is to manage with a broken product, and acceptable documentation (or even good for that matter).
I had heard something about this on NPR. I do not believe they indeed on trying to use the power to power homes and such, but instead, to run a desalinization plant to provide freshwater to remote places.
It becomes cost effective because it would be overly expensive to provide power out to these remote areas which desparately need fresh water. It supposedly opens up a whole bunch of land to agriculture that was unusable before.
I remember hearing about this being done before for some third world country but it failing miserably because of storms and such.
Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to find much info on google so I could be mistaken.
I respect someone who devotes their life selflessly to helping the poor survive, but I admire someone who devotes their life selflessly to the advancement of humanity.
Oh and real men use regedit.exe
I don't think I even need to commit on this...
How can someone be 'stuck' running Windows?
If it's at work, well, a company agrees to a EULA so it doesn't affect you, the employee.
If it's at home, Linux is more than capable of communicating completely with any Windows box.
If it's at home and there is some reason why Linux can't be installed _permantly_, SUSE and RedHat have CD based runtime distributions not to mention the fact that Linux can be ran from a file on a Windows partition. There is really no reason why someone can't use Linux other than that they are not trying hard enough.
BTW: You say you want to stay away from XP, but what in the world could not make you feel the same way about every other version of Windows?
Linux is still maturing.
Fact of the matter is, Linux is more robust, reliable, and secure than Windows. There is no excuse for someone to use Windows over Linux. I personally don't care if people use Windows. If people _choose_ to use Windows though, then they have no right to complain _especially_ in the face of all the hard work that so many have put in to GNU/Linux in order to provide an alternative.
Because of this, many people feel that voting for a 3rd party candidate is equivalent to throwing their vote away.
Ok, so let's use a simple analogy to explain this:
I give you two choices 1) you can give me all your money and rape your family or 2) you can give me all your money and I will kill your family.
Now, does that mean that choice 1) is morally acceptable as it may be the lesser of the two evils? Absolute not. At this point, it one's moral obligation to deny either choice. Civil disobidience in a certain sense. Just as so many great men in this country have done when asked to choose between unjustice laws.
Henry David Thoreau said that we must, "be men first, and then Americans." One only truly throws away their vote when they vote for someone they do not believe in.
I'm sorry folks.
I'm tired of hearing people bitch about Windows. Linux is a better OS. You have no excuse. Go and buy RedHat and stop bitching about the MS EULA.
It reminds me of all those people who bitch about voting because we have a "two party system" and then on election day, they still vote for democrats or republicans. Either your part of the problem or the solution.