Not true. The memory controller onboard HURTS MP performance, it adds extra latency (beyond 2~4-way) because MP systems have their own complex memory subsystems. Not a smart move from the current king of server chips.
AMD changes? Yeah, they do: they have a new arch that is 1.5~2 years out, but until then, they just have a diff. memory subsystem.
But you're right: they could have more and are just tight lipped. I mean, no one knew squat about this Intel thing until a few months ago.
I'm not. I'm comparing the Conroe with AMD's AM2. Both are the latest offerings from each rival this summer. Benchmarks scores for both are on AnandTech.
Please try to read people's posts before bashing them.
So what's your point? Even if it is a ways out, AMD has nothing to show for the next 1.5~2 years. AM2 is their next offering (which slipped a full year), and it's a dog. See anandtech's site.
I don't get your complaint. It outperforms AMD for the same power. Sure, it's nothing compared to the 4W 486 days when we played Doom, but seems like the right direction to me.
How does their mobile part's power compare to AMDs?
I too have an inherited renal condition that requires healthcare, and will only get worse as I get older. I recently purchased a life insurance policy at a 5x premium compared to a healthy person. It would be a joke if I quit my job and tried to buy health coverage on my own. Unless this country subsidizes healthcare, or improves the system dramatically, I have no choice but to work for a large corporation for the rest of my career, then pay through the nose for health insurance after I retire.
Just like you, I look at all the contracting "startup" opportunities that come my way and realize it would be suicidal to jump ship.
I generally on the anti-wintel basher side, but I've set up Dells, Gateways, IBMs, and a iMacs, and damn, iMacs are freakin' slick.
I agree with all yof our responses except this one. I have yet to see a PC that even comes close to the OOBox experience you get with a Mac. The $$$ Apple spends on packaging details and aesthetics is money well spent, IMHO.
The Japanese "Engrish" Speaker who took lots of photos The token minority-minority double-whammy, the black gay The other token black stereotype: the thug The cheerleader slut (do those exist anymore?) The preppy boytoy BMOC (do those exist either??) Pot smoking as rebellion (is that still true?)
I bet the new version has at least one Arab, and one Indian stereotype. Or maybe they'll be as insipidly crass as "Me Myself and Irene" and make a "joke" by depicting the ever illusive "intelligent black teenage boy" slur.
The literature courses in took in college essentially posited that there's nothing new since Odysseus, the Old Testament, the Satyricon, and Shakespeare's body of work.
Everything is is a rehash of the fundamental elemenents.
Now, you can inject a boatload of creativity and trawl the depths of human emotion with skilled use of these known devices, but that's not an excuse to turn the vapid xeroxing monkey machines loose on the already limp plots of the past three decades.
I was going to dust off my soapbox and pick on you for using "postmodern", but yeah, you're pretty much dead-on with that one in a very literal interpretation of the self-awareness nascent in post-modernism.
To paraphrase The Filthy Critic -- http://www.bigempire.com/filthy -- apparently the grassfuckers in Hollywood have humped the 70's dry and there's nothing left to remake, so now they want to ass rape the pop classics of the 80's as well.
Interrupts are not sufficient. You can make a tight loop and still hog >99% of the CPU scheduler. As long as the interrupts don't exceed the thermal time constant of the cooling solution you can easily write a virus to do this (assuming you know the loop).
You sound EXACTLY like Intel immediately after FDIV:
[[AMD states the test conditions involved running floating-point intensive code sequences, a highly computational task usually performed in research labs. "It's very hard to imagine this type of [tight FP loop] code in our [financial services] environment,"]]
[[Flashback to 1995 - "Intel distorted how serious [FDIV bug] was telling people it was only an issue to researchers and scientists"]]
What exactly do you assume the service time of said interrupt is, 10 minutes?
Let's say I kick of Maya to render a fairly complex scene. I don't touch my CPU for 20 minutes. Interrupts come in with the CPU tick so that the OS can reschedule threads, but in general, nothing is happening but rendering.
Now, if interrupts take 100's of milliseconds, no problem: the die can probably cool down at that point because the thermal time constant is on the order of milliseconds. But most interrupts are serviced in MICROSECONDS.
Sorry, interrupts will not save the machine. You could sit there and type a novel and wildly move your mouse: you'd probably use less than 1% of the CPU while the die heats.
Since dies heat up fairly quickly, I severely doubt the technical accuraccy of this article, unless AMD is specifically addressing a cooling solution problem or die that tested at a higher temperature but weren't labeled as such.
It is a textbook case in many MBA programs how _WELL_ Intel handled this.
They recalled EVERY CPU at their own expense of millions of dollars. Managing the recall, the disposal, the resupply, the competition, AND the PR nightmare was handled so well that this incident has become canon for MBA candidates.
Depends on what they assume goes into a TDP workload.
I suspect three things: 1) when uops that are non-32 bit execute, the upper 32 bit hardware is disabled: why burn extra power? 2) They used non 64-bit workloads for their TDP measurements (TDP is "typical" and 64-bit apps aren't typical, yet). 3) even if they did use 64-bit workloads, it only refers to execution logic (address generation is not 64-bit). This means at most a probably 10% increase going to 64-bit operands.
How both sides define TDP is the real question. But as an OEM given a datasheet, I see the Intel solution as superior thermally and power-delivery-wise: lower TDP, lower Tamb/case.
Are you confusing the amount of power consumed by the device and the amount of power consumed that is converted into heat?
No, but you are. Power == Heat. No way around that without rewriting the laws of thermo. But I'd really like to hear your explanation of power. I need a good laugh.
I thought it was common knowledge that the way Intel describe their electrical power was calculated differently to the way done by Intel
Yes, AMD uses a lower Tcase, which means their spec'd power numbers are optimistic because they assume the OEM chassis has better airflow. Intel takes a pessimistic view of 100 decC. In other words: Intel doesn't intentionally use a lower Tcase to look better.
Slashdot Mirror
Not true. The memory controller onboard HURTS MP performance, it adds extra latency (beyond 2~4-way) because MP systems have their own complex memory subsystems. Not a smart move from the current king of server chips.
AMD changes? Yeah, they do: they have a new arch that is 1.5~2 years out, but until then, they just have a diff. memory subsystem.
But you're right: they could have more and are just tight lipped. I mean, no one knew squat about this Intel thing until a few months ago.
as if AMD's were brand new as well.
I'm not. I'm comparing the Conroe with AMD's AM2. Both are the latest offerings from each rival this summer. Benchmarks scores for both are on AnandTech.
Please try to read people's posts before bashing them.
Wait, this is Slashdot. Nevermind.
So what's your point? Even if it is a ways out, AMD has nothing to show for the next 1.5~2 years. AM2 is their next offering (which slipped a full year), and it's a dog. See anandtech's site.
I don't get your complaint. It outperforms AMD for the same power. Sure, it's nothing compared to the 4W 486 days when we played Doom, but seems like the right direction to me.
How does their mobile part's power compare to AMDs?
Please post the link to the data that supports your claim of "power hog".
Well, I'm using the latest Mozilla and I see the bottom search bar colliding right in the middle of an article.
Denied!
What's the diff between "all components" and "system"?
Lemme guess, your Highschool Literature class just assigned "Atlas Shrugged"?
I'm 100% with you.
I too have an inherited renal condition that requires healthcare, and will only get worse as I get older. I recently purchased a life insurance policy at a 5x premium compared to a healthy person. It would be a joke if I quit my job and tried to buy health coverage on my own. Unless this country subsidizes healthcare, or improves the system dramatically, I have no choice but to work for a large corporation for the rest of my career, then pay through the nose for health insurance after I retire.
Just like you, I look at all the contracting "startup" opportunities that come my way and realize it would be suicidal to jump ship.
14. Awesome out of the box.
The same could be said about any well-made PC.
I generally on the anti-wintel basher side, but I've set up Dells, Gateways, IBMs, and a iMacs, and damn, iMacs are freakin' slick.
I agree with all yof our responses except this one. I have yet to see a PC that even comes close to the OOBox experience you get with a Mac. The $$$ Apple spends on packaging details and aesthetics is money well spent, IMHO.
AFAIC tell on IMDB, "Superman" was never a motion picture until 1978.
hey man, i didn't say i agreed, i just pointed out what i think i was supposed to learn (it's been 25 years!)
So what stereotypes will they use from the 00's?
In the 1980's we had:
The Japanese "Engrish" Speaker who took lots of photos
The token minority-minority double-whammy, the black gay
The other token black stereotype: the thug
The cheerleader slut (do those exist anymore?)
The preppy boytoy BMOC (do those exist either??)
Pot smoking as rebellion (is that still true?)
I bet the new version has at least one Arab, and one Indian stereotype. Or maybe they'll be as insipidly crass as "Me Myself and Irene" and make a "joke" by depicting the ever illusive "intelligent black teenage boy" slur.
The literature courses in took in college essentially posited that there's nothing new since Odysseus, the Old Testament, the Satyricon, and Shakespeare's body of work.
Everything is is a rehash of the fundamental elemenents.
Now, you can inject a boatload of creativity and trawl the depths of human emotion with skilled use of these known devices, but that's not an excuse to turn the vapid xeroxing monkey machines loose on the already limp plots of the past three decades.
urge to kill... falling...
Didn't know that. Thanks.
I was going to dust off my soapbox and pick on you for using "postmodern", but yeah, you're pretty much dead-on with that one in a very literal interpretation of the self-awareness nascent in post-modernism.
To paraphrase The Filthy Critic -- http://www.bigempire.com/filthy -- apparently the grassfuckers in Hollywood have humped the 70's dry and there's nothing left to remake, so now they want to ass rape the pop classics of the 80's as well.
I still can't belive they are remaking Superman.
Interrupts are not sufficient. You can make a tight loop and still hog >99% of the CPU scheduler. As long as the interrupts don't exceed the thermal time constant of the cooling solution you can easily write a virus to do this (assuming you know the loop).
You sound EXACTLY like Intel immediately after FDIV:
[[AMD states the test conditions involved running floating-point intensive code sequences, a highly computational task usually performed in research labs. "It's very hard to imagine this type of [tight FP loop] code in our [financial services] environment,"]]
[[Flashback to 1995 - "Intel distorted how serious [FDIV bug] was telling people it was only an issue to researchers and scientists"]]
What exactly do you assume the service time of said interrupt is, 10 minutes?
Let's say I kick of Maya to render a fairly complex scene. I don't touch my CPU for 20 minutes. Interrupts come in with the CPU tick so that the OS can reschedule threads, but in general, nothing is happening but rendering.
Now, if interrupts take 100's of milliseconds, no problem: the die can probably cool down at that point because the thermal time constant is on the order of milliseconds. But most interrupts are serviced in MICROSECONDS.
Sorry, interrupts will not save the machine. You could sit there and type a novel and wildly move your mouse: you'd probably use less than 1% of the CPU while the die heats.
Since dies heat up fairly quickly, I severely doubt the technical accuraccy of this article, unless AMD is specifically addressing a cooling solution problem or die that tested at a higher temperature but weren't labeled as such.
What exactly do you mean "blundered badly"?
It is a textbook case in many MBA programs how _WELL_ Intel handled this.
They recalled EVERY CPU at their own expense of millions of dollars. Managing the recall, the disposal, the resupply, the competition, AND the PR nightmare was handled so well that this incident has become canon for MBA candidates.
Um, what was that about AMD products being superioir because they don't overheat:
o n_fpu_bug/
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/04/28/amd_opter
Riiiight.
Depends on what they assume goes into a TDP workload.
I suspect three things: 1) when uops that are non-32 bit execute, the upper 32 bit hardware is disabled: why burn extra power? 2) They used non 64-bit workloads for their TDP measurements (TDP is "typical" and 64-bit apps aren't typical, yet). 3) even if they did use 64-bit workloads, it only refers to execution logic (address generation is not 64-bit). This means at most a probably 10% increase going to 64-bit operands.
How both sides define TDP is the real question. But as an OEM given a datasheet, I see the Intel solution as superior thermally and power-delivery-wise: lower TDP, lower Tamb/case.
Perhaps.
But my facts are correct, which you apparently do not dispute.
And you bit.
Are you confusing the amount of power consumed by the device and the amount of power consumed that is converted into heat?
No, but you are. Power == Heat. No way around that without rewriting the laws of thermo. But I'd really like to hear your explanation of power. I need a good laugh.
I thought it was common knowledge that the way Intel describe their electrical power was calculated differently to the way done by Intel
Yes, AMD uses a lower Tcase, which means their spec'd power numbers are optimistic because they assume the OEM chassis has better airflow. Intel takes a pessimistic view of 100 decC. In other words: Intel doesn't intentionally use a lower Tcase to look better.