Err, other than both being perceived as "difficult", there is no comparison between debian and slackware.
Slackware is about as barebones as one could get. Some people like that. It has no package management to speak of - this should be perceived in this case as a strength. Many do not want to deal with the overhead of package management. Slackware is as simple as possible.
Debian is a managed system, from top to bottom, and is geared towards providing tools for you to manage the system. However, Debian is rather complicated and has a high learning curve. Nevertheless, the time one puts in learning it pays off.
Gentoo should be mentioned as well, since it suits those who like to micro manage every detail of their system, buty also provides management capabilities as Debian does (though more modeled after FreeBSD it seems).
All three of these distros have solved the problems the rpm based distros are still dealing with (albeit slackware by simply doing nothing and remaining simple).
They really aren't necessary if you can read, right?
When looking at recipes, I am more concerned with ingredients and talk about technique, not the presentation. Perhaps a bit of history.
For example, his lasagna is very much the "American way", made with ricotta and tomato sauce - Italians don't use ricotta in lasagna - they use a bechamel sauce. The bolognese meat sauce frequently used in Italian lasagne is very unlike the kind you eat in American kitchens.
In others words, I don't see the point in a cookbook made by someone who doesn't know what they're talking about:)
and sandbox your activities in it. If you can get your hands on 3 or 4 pc's and a cheap hub, you can get very far.
What you want to concentrate on are *auth services (pam, unix, nis, samba, ldap, etc) *mail (set up a few MTA's and try some different configurations) *name services (dns - probably where you should start) *shell usage (this takes a while) *routing and firewalling *printing (cups, samba) *samba
Set aside a few tasks for yourself and star trying to do things. Stay simple at first, then work your way up to bigger things.
Though I don't see how the boss asking you to learn linux is much of a motivator.
No I have a lot of respect, but Debian is a large democratically run organization. It stands to reason that it could survive more trouble than say, FreeBSD could, which if a handful of people called it quits, it'd be over.
... don't try to "shoehorn" an unsupported OS into a commercial application platform. That's crazy - much less converting some vendors rpms to debs with alien, which is insane.
I agree with you about Debian, but you need to advocate it where it's safe - infrastructure. If you're a developer, well, you're in a bind. If you're an admin, well, you can put it to use with DNS, mail, virus scanning, cvs, http, directories, samba (hint, hint) and a million other things. The app support will eventually come. You can get by without vendor hardware support most of the time, not a problem; we all know that at that level most distros are all the same. But for application server (e.g., weblogic, oracle, cad apps, etc) I would not even think of doing this.
You could not be more wrong. Production environments require stability, period - not the latest glitz. Most Sun shops are using Solaris 8 - it's ancient. Most windows shops are using Windows 2000. Conservative and stable is debian's strength. The reason Red Hat is such a mess is because they keep changing shit, and the wrong shit into the bargain. Worse yet, they put "enhancements" and bug fixes into up2date, which is in my opinion a big no no. I've had up2date break systems more often than update them. You point was?
And please, windows gimps with no linux experience need not moderate nor reply, because you don't know what you're talking about.
It is true that Debian does not have much commercial support, beyond Progeny and a few others.
However, it is the easiest linux distro to support, hands down. It is far more deterministic, more polite to it's user base, and far easier to support your commercial software on that anything else (provided you do it right). Why debian is not more popular with big houses is a topic up for grabs, but it has more to do with psychology, intertia and plain ignorance than anything else.
and to those who are saying "shut up and go with what's there" I might remind you that the reason they're using linux in the first place is because users (in this case admins) wanted to use it. The demand came before the supply, OK?
I believe Debian is so far superior to the other distros that wide support for it is inevitable. It makes too much sense. I think partly the reason is isn't widely commercially supported is because Debian spent the first years of it's existence more concerned with infrastructural matters than anything else, without much concern for usability. Now that they are very actively working on usability issues and other assorted superficialities, look out. they have a solid, modular architecture supported by well designed political process.
Lastly I might add Debian is not a company that can be bought or influenced by money; it is a non-profit with protected legal status. It is very politically stable and is the only software producing organization I know of that has a social contract with it users. Gentoo or FreeBSD (both being somewhat "cathedral like" in their organization) may have the quality of Debian, but they can't match the political stability, and neither can any commercial company.
Its an institutional analysis, and to say the "that the true purpose of the American educational system is against education" could be quite compelling, in fact, given that enough of an argument was presented such that one could come to no other conclusion. I've read the book, and I think his case is very compelling, and it's a good analysis.
Of course, college students today are mostly on the public dole in the form of grants, government-insured loans (many of which are defaulted upon, passing cost to the taxpayer), and federal aid to their school. So what do they care?
"Pulic dole" for a $40,000 / year school? No fuckin way. the default rate on student loans was ~5% in 2003, so I don't know where you get this "many of which a defaulted upon" figure from. Do you know what happens to you if you default on a student loan? Try not paying taxes for about 5 years. Defaulting on a student loan is worse; much worse.
What you are seeing is evidence of increasing wealth disparity. These students are "subsidized" by mommy and daddy and usually no one else. No one gets 40,000 a year in fuckin grants.
Thanks for your content free post, and the pathetic link to your non-content (and activity free) blog.
Excuse me while I whip my dick out and piss on you, you Apple worshipping, corporate blogging fuck. You fucking loser.
Why don't you keep your dribbling, vacuous non-fucking opinion to your lame ass self before I come over there and beat the sugar out of your drawers, you whining blogging twit. You fucking dork.
Nevermind that Apple ripped of everything worthwhile they ever did, and it took them twenty years to come up with even a half assed OS for latte sipping ipod listening monkey boy jackasses such as yourself. No, don't even mention that. So why not just meander on over to your odious, worthless blog and post a few more pro republican items or some other stupid bullshit. You're wasting my time.
With policy in mind, wikipedia is not authoritative in any sense - obviously. Who would think otherwise? Anyone can edit it. So, policy-wise, it is poor; but in "fact" it is extremely useful.
That said, it is one of the most useful web sites out there, so long as the reader keeps this in mind. There are some excellent articles that outshine commercial encyclopedias by orders of magnitude, and there are some crummy ones. Just what I expected. It's one of the most interesting and successful "open" projects out there; but no, I would not list it as a source on a serious research paper - but I would definitely use it as a starting point for learning about anything.
RTFA. The main gripe is that it doesn't follow braindead simple best security practices (e.g., not leaving services listening on the public net) , not that it doesn't fix all the holes.
Many of microsofts security problems could be fixed by just following best practices, and the built in firewall doesn't do shit.
We get to see what Paul Thurrot's taste in music is - and it's just what we expected all along from a windows gimp: Yanni, John Tesh, Streisand, and Van Halen.
Seriously, this is the first thing I've ever read by him that wasn't annoying.
the ATI drivers work fine in Linux - the ones written by the XFree and kernel team. You can even get DRI working with them if you have some patience.
The linux drivers by ATI are for 3D. And yes, they do suck.
Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache...
on
Hardening Apache
·
· Score: 1
Interesting that you mention this, since the reason there are so damn many compromised IIS boxes out there is directly related to it's being too easy. And here you are talking about "apache security holes" as if it were anywhere near the problem of all those auto-hacked IIS boxes.
nah - probably some used the forum to post credit card numbers as a throw way "catcher". Since it's not english there might be a chance it would stay up longer.
like fake paypal email points to cracked web server cracked web server posts results to forums that allow anonymous posting across the world
Only an idiot couldn't figure out apache, and if you can't, you shouldn't be running web server at all. Exhibit A being your "more secure" IIS, which is full of more holes than swiss cheese.
Slashdot Mirror
yes :)
Gentoo was designed to make micro-management easy.
Err, other than both being perceived as "difficult", there is no comparison between debian and slackware.
Slackware is about as barebones as one could get. Some people like that. It has no package management to speak of - this should be perceived in this case as a strength. Many do not want to deal with the overhead of package management. Slackware is as simple as possible.
Debian is a managed system, from top to bottom, and is geared towards providing tools for you to manage the system. However, Debian is rather complicated and has a high learning curve. Nevertheless, the time one puts in learning it pays off.
Gentoo should be mentioned as well, since it suits those who like to micro manage every detail of their system, buty also provides management capabilities as Debian does (though more modeled after FreeBSD it seems).
All three of these distros have solved the problems the rpm based distros are still dealing with (albeit slackware by simply doing nothing and remaining simple).
They really aren't necessary if you can read, right?
:)
When looking at recipes, I am more concerned with ingredients and talk about technique, not the presentation. Perhaps a bit of history.
For example, his lasagna is very much the "American way", made with ricotta and tomato sauce - Italians don't use ricotta in lasagna - they use a bechamel sauce. The bolognese meat sauce frequently used in Italian lasagne is very unlike the kind you eat in American kitchens.
In others words, I don't see the point in a cookbook made by someone who doesn't know what they're talking about
You are a fucking IDIOT. thanks for not understanding even one of the issues you bring up.
Thanks.
and sandbox your activities in it. If you can get your hands on 3 or 4 pc's and a cheap hub, you can get very far.
What you want to concentrate on are
*auth services (pam, unix, nis, samba, ldap, etc)
*mail (set up a few MTA's and try some different configurations)
*name services (dns - probably where you should start)
*shell usage (this takes a while)
*routing and firewalling
*printing (cups, samba)
*samba
Set aside a few tasks for yourself and star trying to do things. Stay simple at first, then work your way up to bigger things.
Though I don't see how the boss asking you to learn linux is much of a motivator.
Oh so this is all "OSS"'s fault then?
What a fucking idiot.
The government should have had the fucking foresight to mandate "open source code" in the bid.
No I have a lot of respect, but Debian is a large democratically run organization. It stands to reason that it could survive more trouble than say, FreeBSD could, which if a handful of people called it quits, it'd be over.
testing has KDE 3.2
unstable has KDE 3.3
... don't try to "shoehorn" an unsupported OS into a commercial application platform. That's crazy - much less converting some vendors rpms to debs with alien, which is insane.
I agree with you about Debian, but you need to advocate it where it's safe - infrastructure. If you're a developer, well, you're in a bind. If you're an admin, well, you can put it to use with DNS, mail, virus scanning, cvs, http, directories, samba (hint, hint) and a million other things. The app support will eventually come. You can get by without vendor hardware support most of the time, not a problem; we all know that at that level most distros are all the same. But for application server (e.g., weblogic, oracle, cad apps, etc) I would not even think of doing this.
You could not be more wrong. Production environments require stability, period - not the latest glitz. Most Sun shops are using Solaris 8 - it's ancient. Most windows shops are using Windows 2000. Conservative and stable is debian's strength. The reason Red Hat is such a mess is because they keep changing shit, and the wrong shit into the bargain. Worse yet, they put "enhancements" and bug fixes into up2date, which is in my opinion a big no no. I've had up2date break systems more often than update them. You point was?
And please, windows gimps with no linux experience need not moderate nor reply, because you don't know what you're talking about.
It is true that Debian does not have much commercial support, beyond Progeny and a few others.
However, it is the easiest linux distro to support, hands down. It is far more deterministic, more polite to it's user base, and far easier to support your commercial software on that anything else (provided you do it right). Why debian is not more popular with big houses is a topic up for grabs, but it has more to do with psychology, intertia and plain ignorance than anything else.
and to those who are saying "shut up and go with what's there" I might remind you that the reason they're using linux in the first place is because users (in this case admins) wanted to use it. The demand came before the supply, OK?
I believe Debian is so far superior to the other distros that wide support for it is inevitable. It makes too much sense. I think partly the reason is isn't widely commercially supported is because Debian spent the first years of it's existence more concerned with infrastructural matters than anything else, without much concern for usability. Now that they are very actively working on usability issues and other assorted superficialities, look out. they have a solid, modular architecture supported by well designed political process.
Lastly I might add Debian is not a company that can be bought or influenced by money; it is a non-profit with protected legal status. It is very politically stable and is the only software producing organization I know of that has a social contract with it users. Gentoo or FreeBSD (both being somewhat "cathedral like" in their organization) may have the quality of Debian, but they can't match the political stability, and neither can any commercial company.
While this is true, it is generally overstated.
Its an institutional analysis, and to say the "that the true purpose of the American educational system is against education" could be quite compelling, in fact, given that enough of an argument was presented such that one could come to no other conclusion. I've read the book, and I think his case is very compelling, and it's a good analysis.
"Pulic dole" for a $40,000 / year school? No fuckin way. the default rate on student loans was ~5% in 2003, so I don't know where you get this "many of which a defaulted upon" figure from. Do you know what happens to you if you default on a student loan? Try not paying taxes for about 5 years. Defaulting on a student loan is worse; much worse.
What you are seeing is evidence of increasing wealth disparity. These students are "subsidized" by mommy and daddy and usually no one else. No one gets 40,000 a year in fuckin grants.
Thanks for your content free post, and the pathetic link to your non-content (and activity free) blog.
Excuse me while I whip my dick out and piss on you, you Apple worshipping, corporate blogging fuck. You fucking loser.
Why don't you keep your dribbling, vacuous non-fucking opinion to your lame ass self before I come over there and beat the sugar out of your drawers, you whining blogging twit. You fucking dork.
Nevermind that Apple ripped of everything worthwhile they ever did, and it took them twenty years to come up with even a half assed OS for latte sipping ipod listening monkey boy jackasses such as yourself. No, don't even mention that. So why not just meander on over to your odious, worthless blog and post a few more pro republican items or some other stupid bullshit. You're wasting my time.
Good. Why is everyone acting like this is a bad thing?
uh, people have done this in X for, uh, YEARS now? I mean since like 1997?
With policy in mind, wikipedia is not authoritative in any sense - obviously. Who would think otherwise? Anyone can edit it. So, policy-wise, it is poor; but in "fact" it is extremely useful.
That said, it is one of the most useful web sites out there, so long as the reader keeps this in mind. There are some excellent articles that outshine commercial encyclopedias by orders of magnitude, and there are some crummy ones. Just what I expected. It's one of the most interesting and successful "open" projects out there; but no, I would not list it as a source on a serious research paper - but I would definitely use it as a starting point for learning about anything.
RTFA. The main gripe is that it doesn't follow braindead simple best security practices (e.g., not leaving services listening on the public net) , not that it doesn't fix all the holes.
Many of microsofts security problems could be fixed by just following best practices, and the built in firewall doesn't do shit.
We get to see what Paul Thurrot's taste in music is - and it's just what we expected all along from a windows gimp: Yanni, John Tesh, Streisand, and Van Halen.
Seriously, this is the first thing I've ever read by him that wasn't annoying.
the ATI drivers work fine in Linux - the ones written by the XFree and kernel team. You can even get DRI working with them if you have some patience.
The linux drivers by ATI are for 3D. And yes, they do suck.
Interesting that you mention this, since the reason there are so damn many compromised IIS boxes out there is directly related to it's being too easy. And here you are talking about "apache security holes" as if it were anywhere near the problem of all those auto-hacked IIS boxes.
nah - probably some used the forum to post credit card numbers as a throw way "catcher". Since it's not english there might be a chance it would stay up longer.
like
fake paypal email points to cracked web server
cracked web server posts results to forums that allow anonymous posting across the world
Only an idiot couldn't figure out apache, and if you can't, you shouldn't be running web server at all. Exhibit A being your "more secure" IIS, which is full of more holes than swiss cheese.
Does anyone else think this sounds disturbingly sick?