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Windows Media Player 10 Reviewed
An anonymous reader writes "Paul Thorrott reviews Windows Media Player 10 and notes that unlike Apple's iTunes Music Store, which offers music that is only compatible with Apple's iPod portable player, WMP 10 will work with songs from virtually any other online music store. There are more screenshots here with a download link." Reader Thomas Hawk writes "I wrote my Microsoft Windows Media Player 10 Review today the first day the software was released and one of the first reviews on the product. I basically give it good marks but there are definiately some things that they can still improve upon."
An anonymous reader writes "Since I'm somewhat wary of Microsoft's new software (particularly DRM-laden Media Player types,) I was paying attention to the EULA and privacy agreements provided when downloading the software. Ironically enough, the privacy page linked from the installer (at time of writing) merely said "TODO: Privacy policy goes here". Most certainly an honest mistake, but in the meantime it appears there is in fact no policy on privacy (or it has not yet been taken into consideration) in WMP10."
First Post goes here
getSexySig();
Clearly it's a superior means of enjoying musical content over having that annoying 100 gram iPod Mini which you can actually forget you have with you, because it requires no bulky computer or extension cord and that insidious battery will last for up to 8 hours.
Microsoft Windows Media Player 10, because your not going anywhere anyway.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Anyone else a little nervous that they haven't gotten around to writing a privacy policy? That seems a bit disturbing, to say the least.
gasp
gasp
gasp
--
"pain is weakness leaving the body."Paul Thorrott reviews Windows Media Player 10 and notes that unlike Apple's iTunes Music Store, which offers music that is only compatible with Apple's iPod portable player, WMP 10 will work with songs from virtually any other online music store.
Wtf does that mean? What does iTunes Music Store have to do with WiMP 10? iTunes (not the music store) can play mp3s, which means it's compatible with almost every other online music store too. It's just MS's WMA format that iTunes can't play, but neither can any other player anyways.
"In case of emergency, break glass. Scream. Bleed to death."
Does it support Ogg files in your playlist yet?
But it doesn't run on my Mac.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
since WS2003 can do almost anything that XP can yet is more stable and can do a lot of testing for work related activites I have that as one of my main computers at home... I tired to install Media Player 10 and it won't install, apparently its only for XP
go fig.
If they just stuck to a media player that limits itself to, say, playing media, they wouldn't need a privacy policy.
Its not like I need the playlist stuff, Winamp (2.9) handles music, I only use WMP for video, which rarely needs a playlist, and even then, if I need a playlist for video, I do it with Winamp.
I am a big Windows guy, so it hurts me to say I like iTunes better but I do. It doesn't really bother me that I cannot buy from other companies since I use mostly MP3's with iTunes anyways. If you are are really looking for a media player that can play different formats (including movies), I recomment WinAmp 5. It's better than Winamp 3, it plays multiple media, has a large plug in set to extend functionality and had a low overhead. Plus, I love the media library feature in WinAmp, which WMP never seems to get right, confirmed with my installation of the 10 beta.
Well, no privacy policy would seem to mean no privacy, am I right?
put step 2 here.
anyone else still think the MSN music store looks just a tad like an existing one?
/dev/null
I didn't think the house band in Hell would play this badly.
I decided to give it a try on a work computer where I usually run iTunes. Installed it and tried to play back an old playlist where the mp3 files no longer existed (it's been a while since I've used MP). The player freaked out and told me that the CD was scratched and I should check the CD. The file wasn't even a CD. I had a good chuckle and went back to iTunes. At least it knows what type of media it's playing.
Tim Smith - Ramblings from Nerd Land
The old napster has little to do with the new napster, other than the name. They are completely different products. One is p2p, the other is some sort of DRM music downloading service.
Coming from a MegaCorp, I would expect something more like...Whoops, sorry, we accidentally sold your information to interested third parties including the DHS. We sincerely apologize for the honest mistake.
But you're right, this does look like an honest mistake. But it's more like a sign of the future to come.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
... post witty response here.
In this house we obey the laws of Thermodynamics!
What's with the Napster logo?
FoundNews.com - get paid to blog.,
Songs bought from Windows Media Player based music stores work in and only in Windows Media applications such as WMP.
Songs bought from the iTunes Music Store work in and only in Quicktime applications such as iTunes.
Songs bought from mp3 based music stores work anywhere.
Didn't we all know this already?
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Somebody was commenting on the interface in an earlier thread but I had no idea... MSN's opposing gradients from hell clash with the XP Luna scheme really, really badly.
Go look. Can you read those tabs at the top-right? Music... ra... radio... movies & tv?
Also - find the transport controls! They are hiding in the worst place possible, at the lower-left corner, which is exactly the last place your eye goes to when scanning the sea of text in the main window. This decision probably hinges on simply not making the thing look too much like iTunes.
God, I get angry just looking at this thing.
What is wrong with them? More money than God and they still can't manage to find a visual design that isn't completely retarded. Reversed text mixed with plain. Tabs - which don't look like tabs - separated by an arbitrary hierarchy. All controls with meaningful functions crammed into a too-small area at the bottom of the window, which sits mashed nicely against your taskbar, which is usually crammed with widgetry as well.
To say nothing of how the MSN Music Store works, I can say that iTunes (and WinAMP, and Audion) knock the shit out of this.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
unlike Apple's iTunes Music Store, which offers music that is only compatible with Apple's iPod portable player, WMP 10 will work with songs from virtually any other online music store.
oh great. pity about the hard labor mplayer developers and the like would have been forced to go through to reverse engineer MS technolgies and provide wrappers for the codecs just so linux users can play MS format. you can bet your bottom dollar MS wouldn't have provided any help to them on that.
just don't support their bullshit. just don't do it!!
they forgot to use their own "invention".
getSexySig();
Maybe it's just because I've been using it forever, but I just can't see why any Windows user would prefer to use iTunes and particularly Windows Media Player as their music player rather than Winamp. You can't just ascribe it to ignorance of Winamp either, I know a few people who have winamp installed, but genuinely prefer playing their music in iTunes!
WMP 10 will work with songs from virtually any other online music store
:)
I guess "work" has become a very subjective word.
I have a proxy server to go through here at work, and Media Player 10 tells me that there are no online stores available in my area. Hmmmm...
The thing I really don't care much for is the DRM services that get installed with this. I already don't like the idea of mediaplayer making determinations about the licensing of the music I listen to, but it becomes worse because it installs and runs a SERVICE that monitors this. It's one more thing running in the background that doesn't need to be when I am just reading my email.
.035ms FASTER!
Software makers: Get it through your head. DONT RUN YOUR DUMBASS SERVICES ON STARTUP JUST SO I CAN UNZIP A FILE
What I like about Quicktime is you can move the time slider up and down and it will show you that EXACT frame in the video.
WMP never did this. If you move the time marker around, it just shows the time you are at, but the video stays frozen.
Wish they would fix that.
Ironically enough, the privacy page linked from the installer (at time of writing) merely said "TODO: Privacy policy goes here".
TODO: Add some witty comment tying Microsoft's "TODO" patent with their WMP privacy policy.
hence the "5 years ago, who would have thought..." title. Jeez.
But does it run on Linux?
It simply means that all your data are belong to M$, AND YOUR LITTLE DOG TOO!!!!
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
For one thing, I don't understand why the cries about DRM go up with Microsoft yet are strangely muted with Apple.
Simple. Apple doesn't have a history of being complete bitches to both the general public and the open source community.
And oh yeah: Apple writes better software.
and all your music are belong to m$.
Why, in 2004, is it necessary to restart Windows XP after installing WMP 10? Rebooting is so '90s.
From the screen shots it looks like its supposed to everything. That bugs me. It rips, burns, plays to music for you. I like MediaPlayer Classic that just plays and WinAmp. I can't see "upgrading" soon.
Does having your encoder encoded make for faster / better encoding?
That microsoft patented the TODO comment...
I agree!
... goes here.
spell it the right way jebuz crizt. its the guys name after all.
the guy is called paul thurott and not thorott you sickos.
It's kind of stupid the way they compare WMP 10 to the Itunes music store. One is a media player, one is,well... a store!
Is it somehow significant that WMP 10 can play various flavors of music file and the itunes music store sells songs for ipods/itunes?
Are those two things not mutually exclusive?
... is listed under the "Options" window... Considering the lack of a privacy policy, I guess it would make sense...
IANAL, but I've seen actors play them on TV
All I want to know is can I now go forward and back one frame at a time or fastforward/rewind yet? Quicktime allows me to. So far I haven't been able to get Media player to.
FlexBeta are great and all, but can you please link to the offical download in future?
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=34505 Is the offcial download from microsoft - faster, nicer to the people who hosted and gives you much more faith in it not being trojaned.
"...unlike Apple's iTunes Music Store, which offers music that is only compatible with Apple's iPod portable player, WMP 10 will work with songs from virtually any other online music store."
Ironically, 'virtually any other online music store' does not include the Itunes music store. And why are we comparing an online music store to a software application anyhow?
Itunes will play AAC, and MP3, but not WMA.
WMP will play WMA, MP3, but not AAC.
Seems both software apps are equally limited in regards to what formats they'll play. Now, which stores support which formats is a different debate. Let's try not to mix up the player and the store. Although integrated, they are not the same thing.
The reviewer seems to be amazed by a lot of "new" features in WiMP that were already in iTunes ages ago.
I was looking forward to giving this a try earlier this week when I learned it was out... then I found that it is XP only... sadly this will not convince me to upgrade from 2k.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
Huh... Is that anti as in Antitrust?
My username does not make me Apathetic. It's irony, get it?
> All while remaining the fastest performer on the desktop.
+1 Funny
minor point, but the original napster wasn't p2p-- it was client-server.
We get to see what Paul Thurrot's taste in music is - and it's just what we expected all along from a windows gimp: Yanni, John Tesh, Streisand, and Van Halen.
Seriously, this is the first thing I've ever read by him that wasn't annoying.
Holy crap!! Now I believe what other have said about the decline of /.. Paul Thurrot, the Paul Thurrot who licks Bill Gates ass and says it's yummy, the same Paul Thurrot who insists Windows be much better than linux, wrote a boot-licking article and managed to get it posted on /. as news?
Next thing we know, Enderle will get into the act. VROOMM!! VROOOM!!!
yes, i haven't RTFA so i trust you're not making this up. i'll just say, if he thinks WMP is that fantastic and controllable, who wants to be around when someone shows him foobar. i think his head just might explode.
This is my Sig, this is my Gun. One is for Slashdot and one is for Fun.
Wow... how much were you paid to post that? Copy/paste it directly from some marketing bulletin?
mplayer does all that and more for me, and it's NOT encumbered with DRM bullshit.
Go shill elsewhere.
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
and all the plus points are things that WinAMP has done for ages without a problem ... so what is great about WMP10?
Who would have imagined that there would be napster 'prepay'cards at your local Kroger..
We live in strange, restrictive times..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
can't iTunes run WMP file? Is it because Apple won't let them or because Microsoft won't let them? Can Microsoft Media play AAC files? Why not?
All files downloaded from iTunes (music store) can be played on any other system if you go through the effort to convert them. Same as Windows media files.
I really don't get the fuss about converting files. If I want easy access to my CDs I rip them to my computer and change their format. If I wanted to listen to an album I bought in the 80s I recorded it to a tape. If I wanted to listen to an 8 track... oh wait - I am a little young for those... but for most all things, if I want to listen to it in a different form than what I bought it in, I went through the effort to change the format.
Of course they will support songs from other stores. That way, you get used to the new features in WMP10, play all your songs there, and you're in musical nirvana.
Where are you going to buy your next song from?
I've got principles, Linux, and an iPod. I don't want no stinkin' MS shit.
Sadly, this sounds like the death knell of every other music store out there, except perhaps iTunes. With a store integrated into WMP, why should Napster 2 still sell WMA-P files?
Haec merda tauri est. Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
Well, if that's the only thing the program is about...
- Leon Mergen
http://www.solatis.com
I sincerely hope they fixed that nasty bug where the volume cranks up to full blast when you move the time positional slider. You have no idea how difficult it has become to watch porn in the middle of the night on low volume.
you know what's hilarious? pc magazine reviewed the 4th generation ipod. they compared the frequencies outputted when using raw WAV files and the those when using apple's new lossless codec. they said they couldn't even tell a difference, even though the files were about half the size of the uncompressed WAV files. no shit! look up "lossless", motherfuckers!
To make WMP 10 a "killer app", the designers need to remove the hierarchical tree in the left pane and replace it with a spatial browser, as featured in MacOS 9 and GNOME 2.6+.
The rumors are that 5th gen ipods will have spatial browsers as well.
Seriously. If you just replace iTunes for WMP, nobody would notice. Same features.
From the screenshots, I don't know but to me it looks like nothing special. The interface still is pretty ugly specially with that overdone brushed steel/plastic thing. Can't even read the options properly. I'll stick with Media Player Classic.
[alk]
Well I'm now better off buying CD's then using DRM telling me how many computers I can put it on. Here are a few things I found interesting from their privacy policy...
"Microsoft also provides a service that lets you move your own secure content..." Gee thanks M$ for letting me put the content I purchased where I want to
"Unless the migration limit has been reached, a new license will be returned that enables use of the content on your new computer. Microsoft keeps track of the number of migration licenses granted for content that was first licensed on your original computer and allows a limited number of license migrations."
Great so if I move it to my work, laptop and home computer I might not be able to play what I purchased? Furthermore, how does this work since my laptop / home run Gentoo Linux?
I'll be sticking with ANYTHING BUT THIS.
Thanks for deciding to licence my music for me, M$ how nice of you. Not even Real does that, come on!
Hey look no pointless curley braces or semicolons... just like Python
..what does this Bum button do? http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/imag es/mp10/landing_feature_newdesign_180x96.jpg
I tried every other WMP release up to 9 on my HTPC and can't determine what my motivation's supposed to be for upgrading. None of them have any useful additional features as far as I can tell. Most of the new features seem to have to do with DRM and usage reporting. Maybe that's good for content producers, but why will an end user want to burden himself or herself with it? You may be able to lead a rabbit with a carrot and a stick, but with just a stick...?
The iPod has over 50% marketshare.
iTMS sells over 70% of online music.
Who cares if WMP10 works with the wanna-be players and music stores? It doesn't work with ones most people are actually using.
Reading Slashdot is ruining my spelling and grammar.
You know, all the reviews pan Apple for providing their songs in a "proprietary" format, which is called AAC. AAC is actually a patent encumbered open standard.
Well, all the other stores, be they MSN Beta, Napster, or buymusic.com all provide songs in WMP format, which I believe is a PROPRIEATRY PATENTED FORMAT, last I checked.
The reason why iTunes and the iPod don't use WMA is because Apple DOES NOT want to give Microsoft a cut every time a Mac or an iPod is sold.
People seem to forget that the iPod and iTunes happily play MP3 files, as well AIFF, and WAV files as well as AAC.
There was also a note about the MP3 decoding chips inside the iPod. The exact same chip is used in a number of other players that are Windows only. That chip will happily decode, MP3s, AACs and WMA files. Apple pays the licensing for AAC, but refuses to pay to license WMA. Well, the makers of the other players don't want to pay Dolby a license to be able to play AAC files, hence why their firmware doesn't use the AAC. They could easily turn on AAC and write a plugin for iTunes and the thing would work with iTunes then (at least the non DRMed stuff).
Since I have an iPod, I started ripping stuff to 192K AAC, but have since switched to 256 VBR Lame MP3 files. My iPod has no issue with these files whatsoever and iTunes plays them happily.
If Apple and Microsoft wanted to use a REAL open standard (just because most PCs ship with WinXP, and WMP is FORCE BUNDLED with them DOES NOT make WMA a standard), they would offer songs in MP3 or Ogg Vorbis format.
It is possible to create gapless MP3s and only Winamp (with a plugin) and Foobar2000 can play them back. If WMP could do it, I'd stick with it.
Yes, running applications in RAM works better than running them straight from the HD.
(Yeah, I know. I'm guessing he means running indexing in the background or something. It still sounds funny.)
Forget the whales - save the babies.
That list of Brand New Improvements sounds to me like a list of the bare essentials for a media library. I am seriously underwhelmed by the *new, improved* features listed there. Perhaps it's just that the reviewer hasn't actually ever used itunes, and thus all these are groundbreaking.
Actually, reading that first paragraph again the reviewer notes his bias:
I am a Windows Media Player junkie. Having used the program for a number of years I think it is quite simply a brilliant piece of software - a masterpiece developed by extremely talented engineers in so many ways. Even more spectacular is that it is free. Microsoft gives it away.
I guess you know what you're getting to begin with. I just wish he has spent a little time with itunes to get a feel for what should really be considered a Big Deal.
I'm sure WMP10 is an improvement on previous versions, and it certainly does have the benefit of being able to deal with videos...but my god, if that review doesn't amount to death through faint praise (look, the New Ford Behemoth, now with windshield wipers!!), I don't know what does.
-Ted
-=-=- Quantum physics - the dreams stuff are made of.
> So do yourself a favor and pick it up already. :)
And then what? Are you making a broad assumption that everyone is running Windows?
The Truth About Slashdot
blakespot
-- Heisenberg may have slept here.
iPod Hacks.com
"You have no privacy, get over it."
I never upgraded to 9 from the XP player. I hated how it would snap the picture in and out of place when you moved the mouse during full screen. I would play an episode of Enterprise, and put my feet on my desk, the mouse would move, and the screen would snap. It was extremely annoying. If 10 is the same way, I'll stick with my default player. A way to uninstall it would be nice also.
.. unlike Apple's iTunes Music Store, which offers music that is only compatible with Apple's iPod portable player, WMP 10 will work with songs from virtually any other online music store.
Anyone catch the flamebait? He's comparing a hardware device with a software application. iTunes plays pretty much anything, including Vorbis, with the proper quicktime plugin. Compare the software apps against each other all day, but don't BS designed to confuse and mislead people. Idiot.
iTunes is not just a store. The store uses a media player application, called iTunes, to purchase, as well as play, music.
You can use iTunes (the application) to play your music files, without every purchasing music.
I don't think anyone was attempting to compare WMP10 the player with iTunes the store. This review compared WMP10 the media player, with iTunes the media player. He also mentioned that in a future article he would review the various stores that integrate with WMP10. I imagine at that point, it will be compared with iTunes, the store.
I managed to crash it and Explorer simply by dragging and dropping an AVI onto WM10 while it was playing an MPEG. This is on an SP2/XPPro machine btw.
More garbage, poorly thought out, buggy, tiresome and uninspiring.
Also, it tried to access the internet three times without permission during install.
Did'nt really expect anything else, including the crash.
ATH0 Bitcoin: 1DnwFLXczVZV8kLJbMYoheUrpqHesjxrSi
Now that I have that out of the way, let me give my opinion on WMP10 and iTunes. I just rebooted into WinXP from FC2, downloaded and tried wmp10 and iTunes. I have used wmp a few time, but until an half hour ago, I never tried iTunes. I just don't care for the layout of wmp10. I don't like the way it presents all my music. I have to scroll way too much. When I fired up iTunes, i noticed that the GUI looks very nice, but does not fit in with the winXP theme I have. No biggie, but a little annoying. iTunes presented all my music in a great way. I could see all my artists/albums with no scrolling. I played some Cure (I am 31!), and iTunes showed me tons of Cure albums I could buy. It also showed me tons of similar late-80's early 90's music (I graduated high school in 91) that was spot-on for what I like. I have to say, iTunes is very nice. WMP-10 doesn't even come close to GUI layout or finding music that I LIKE. While I will still use Linux for my desktop, I just may boot into WinXP more then I would to fire up iTunes. I am not even close to an Apple zealot, however, credit where credit is do, I have to say
.If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
Media player classic link
Corporations aren't people: they don't have brains, hearts or souls; they have executives, directors, employees and shareholders. There's no such thing as an "honest" corporation, or a "dishonest" one - it's like thinking of a "dishonest" tandem bicycle. Even "mistakes", executing actions contrary to executive decisions, are the consequences of other executive incompetence or malfeasance. There's no possibility of "sympathy" with these inhuman entities, only brand identification or alienation. All that counts is what they do, and whether they'll do it again.
This privacy policy omission probably doesn't reflect the lack of a privacy policy, which likely is sitting in some webdroid's inbox, stalled on its way to the website. It rather reflects the low priority of a privacy policy in the organization. Just as it hasn't appeared on time, don't expect it to be followed. There are fewer incentives to follow those policies than to merely publish them, and even fewer disincentives for abusing them.
--
make install -not war
That's what I got out of this article.
Sure, the white text is a little light, but it probably goes dark when you click on it.
I took your advice, and I keep trying this on it.slashdot.org. No dice. I even try smacking the monitor a few times. No such luck. It's always light on light no matter what I do.
That was more of a generic comment towards society today and what government is doing to us, not specifically about Napster 'cards'.
However, I don't agree that downloading 'entertainment media' is stealing anyway. However that'is way OT for here, and I've discussed it in my journal about why I feel that way.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
"Paul Thorrott reviews Windows Media Player 10 and notes that unlike Apple's iTunes Music Store, which offers music that is only compatible with Apple's iPod portable player, WMP 10 will work with songs from virtually any other online music store."
Anyone else find this comparison a little sleazy and misleading? They are comparing WMP's ability to play lots of different formats (which the Itunes player also does) with the type of music being offered by Apple's music store.
Apples and oranges, anyone?
If they want to point out the one glaring advantage MS' product has over Apple's, they should be pointing out that Apple sells music only in their proprietary format and does not license that format to other players, while MS also sells music in WMA but does, in fact, license the WMA technology to third parties.
I think the submitter was at worst, deliberately misleading, at best, confused.
Paul Thorrott reviews Windows Media Player 10 and notes that unlike Apple's iTunes Music Store, which offers music that is only compatible with Apple's iPod portable player, WMP 10 will work with songs from virtually any other online music store.
Shouldn't he be comparing a player to a player, and a store to a store? I mean, considering the player doesn't really offer songs, and the store doesn't really play songs...
unlike Apple's iTunes Music Store, which offers music that is only compatible with Apple's iPod portable player, WMP 10 will work with songs from virtually any other online music store
I can't parse this. It looks like it's saying "Apples STORE is only compatible with apple's DEVICE, but Microsoft's PLAYER is compatible with any STORE." Whether these statements are true or not (and they're not), they make no sense at all when combined.
Please be more careful in your summaries, mister slashdot sir.
Uhhh... that was not insightful considering that not only is WMP10 connected to the MSN music store but a handfull of others too. Also doesn't iTunes play media too? I think it atleast comes with the Quicktime player. Anyways the point is that both iTunes and WMP10 do pretty much the same basic things now.
Please he is such a biased MS fanboy its painfull to read his works.
Newest pointless Slashbot catchphrase goes here, right between "In Soviet Russia..." and "you must be new here".
It was p2p organized by client-server. The file transfers were still p2p.
Call it "centralized" p2p.
...notes that unlike Apple's iTunes Music Store, which offers music that is only compatible with Apple's iPod portable player, WMP 10 will work with songs from virtually any other online music store.
Totally asinine. iTunes as a MEDIA PLAYER is compatible with songs from virtually any other music store, too (eg MP3's) much like WiMP.
Total FUD.
Did you finash learning to spell at two syllable words? Is your stupidity infinate? Was your finite capacity to learn overwhelmed long ago?
Finish, infinite, finite and definite share a root.
I'd love to sue them too, but I just don't think I have a case.
ROTF... wait, floor? No. It feels grassy and yet it doesn't smell like grass. I know: Astroturf!! ROTA LMAO.
The first time I saw WMP10's new color scheme, I thought it was the ugliest thing I'd ever seen in my life. However, there is hope! Right-click on the taskbar, select View->Enhancements->Color Chooser, pull the saturation down to maybe 15% and check the "Use black as player background", then select a non-ugly color. Now your WMP10 doesn't look retarded!
1p}{ 1 sp34k |33+ +|-|e|\| p30p13 \/\/il| 8e i/\/\pr3553|)
Unlike Apple's iTunes Music Store, which offers music that is only compatible with Apple's iPod portable player, WMP 10 will work with songs from virtually any other online music store.
Huh? Why is WMP being compared to ITMS? Apples to Oranges (no pun intended). WMP = iTunes/Quicktime. MSN Music = ITMS. Either somebody meant to say iTunes somewhere (but it still doesn't make sense), or this is an attempt to misinform the reader.
Given that Paul Thorrott is behind this, I'm not suprized.
(go ahead and search for him. Find something where he hasn't found some way to manipulate things to put MS on top. If he isn't on Microsoft's payroll, he should be)
I use Macs to up my productivity, so up yours Microsoft!
You guys just don't get it, do you? Don't pre-install anything on my machine, not AOL links, not iTunes, not WMP. Give me a default browser and I will download what I want!
First: iTunes uses an extensible plugin architecture, and you can add new music formats to it... that's how I play OGG in iTunes. So the only reason itunes wouldn't play music from another store is if the people who produced the format didn't provide a plugin for it.
Second: I play the music I downloaded from the iTMS on a Walkman. It's not restricted to the iPod. Both Apple and Microsoft have left this loophole that allows you to burn CDs and then rip to other formats, and frankly I can't imagine leaving any music I'd bought in a DRM-protected format only.
So, the only facts in this comparison are: "Microsoft refuses to let itunes play WMA files, and it's a little inconvenient to rip the audio-CD backup you should already have to play it on an MP3 player".
and other than the lack of some bitrates, it's not crippled
Translated from geek to English: "Other than it being crippled by restricting it to low quality encoding, it's not crippled."
WTF?
Thats Paul Thurrott of WinSuperSite.com
He submits a lot of stories to publications 'reviewing' how totally super duper Microsoft products are.
I'm surprised Newscientist didn't research him before printing his 'review'.
Actually, I don't think the user interface looks all that bad. I'd prefer they used a flat unskinned standard Windows GUI with standard controls, but then I wish iTunes used a standard Mac GUI with standard Mac controls as well.
Infact, I wont be surprised if they totally drop the support for MP3
I quote the article: "Mp3 ripping: It's admirable that Microsoft finally listened to their users on this one and gave in. In all of the previous versions of Window's Media Player Microsoft forced you to rip your tunes to WMA. Microsoft sought to justify this by arguing that it was a better format than mp3, etc. They didn't disallow mp3 ripping they just made it inconvenient. You had to buy a $10 add on plug in from a third party vendor or know enough about hacking WMP to figure out how to do it yourself. 180 degree change. Windows Media Player 10 fully supports mp3 ripping and high quality encoding at that. Kudos to Microsoft."
I experienced my "Windows last straw" moment last night... tried to install Microsoft's latest Windows Media Player (version 10) and was told that my system was missing a needed DLL file. I did my usual research on Google but version 10 is so new that there aren't too many newsgroup postings about this issue. I then tried to download and install service pack 2 (for my XP machine) and it too failed... no explanation. I followed this up with an e-mail to MS Support. They actually responded - with a link so I could download the installation myself (instead of relying on the Windows Update site to install it for me).
Sure, I could chase down these problems and, like all others I've faced in the past, get them resolved and probably learn a lot in the process (you know me...) but, as I sat there in front of my monitor, staring at that "installation failed..." error I thought to myself, "Why should I? It simply shouldn't be this hard!" And I remembered thinking those same exact thoughts several times before with the same look on my family's faces (uh-oh... Dad has another computer problem and he won't want to be bothered by ANYTHING for the next few hours).
I am SO DONE with Windows! As SOON as I can sell my PC system (and it's a nice one that I built from the ground up to be a killer!), I'm placing an order for a mid-range new iMac. If you're in the Seattle area, let me know (via this forum) and I'll send you a link to my Craigslist.org posting where I'm selling my PC.
And though I have some concerns that WMP 10 might still leave a bit too much on the table for competitors such as Apple, . . .
If there was a way for me to filter out anything posted concerning a Paul Thurrott "review", I would. What a piece. Mouth-piece, that is.
Do not touch -Willie
iTunes supports the following digital players (as listed on apple.com): iPod Apple FireWire / USB Nomad II Creative Labs USB Nomad II MG Creative Labs USB Nomad II c Creative Labs USB Nomad Jukebox Creative Labs USB Nomad Jukebox 20GB Creative Labs USB Nomad Jukebox C Creative Labs USB Novad MuVo Creative Labs USB Rio One SONICBlue/S3 USB Rio 500 SONICBlue/S3 USB Rio 600 SONICBlue/S3 USB Rio 800 SONICBlue/S3 USB Rio 900 SONICBlue/S3 USB Rio S10 SONICBlue/S3 USB Rio S11 SONICBlue/S3 USB Rio S30S SONICBlue/S3 USB Rio S35S SONICBlue/S3 USB Rio S50 SONICBlue/S3 USB Rio Chiba SONICBlue/S3 USB Rio Fuse SONICBlue/S3 USB Rio Cali SONICBlue/S3 USB psa]play 60 Nike USB psa]play 120 Nike USB SoundSpace 2 Nakamichi USB
... of a Microsoft prodcut? Get outta here! ;)
I'd say this.
If you want a music library type application.. use iTunes. Stick to mp3. If you
If you need an online music store and iTms isn't satisfactory, well, use WMP I guess...
If you want to play video.. use Media Player Classic.
I highly recommend MPC if you don't already have it... why?
- No annoying gui, it's easy to find the shuttle controls.
- Doesn't "install".. it's just an executable.
- Let's you manipulate lots of settings that the othe rmedia players hide from you.. for instance, quick aspect ratio corrections, horiz/vertical zoom, etc.
- USes any codecs you already have.
...jeez, WMP 10's appearance is, like, a thousand times worse.
:-)
Like many long-time Mac users, I'm not happy with the brushed aluminum Apple is using for so many of their apps, including the Finder.
But, my God, WMP 10 is just awful in comparison.
Next time I find myself getting annoyed with OS X's faux-metal theme, I'm going to force myself to crank up my PC and launch WMP 10.
It's always important to remind yourself that things could be worse even on my minor, inconsequential matters.
Even more spectacular is that it is free. Microsoft gives it away.
Jeez, I can think of many many programs that "Spectacularly" for free, are even more "Amazing" and they really are free, you even get the source code! If you want to see some really spectacular stuff that comes for free, why not try one of the many great linux distro's that are out there!
Where has this guy been the past few years? Seriously though what is so "Amazing" about Microsoft giving the program away? It would be "Spectacular" if they were giving away a product that were truly free, and free from DRM mechanisms, and isnt aimed fair and square at attacking the iTunes brigade.
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
In Windows XP (released in 2001, see my review), Microsoft upped the anti with Media Player for Windows XP (MPXP, or WMP 8), a more attractive rendition of Microsoft's all-in-one player that offered customization options that greatly uncluttered the UI
I gave up on WinAmp shortly after version 2.x (don't recall which one). Required a plug-in to support Vorbis, but no problem. Download the next version (for some reason), and find it gobbling up file associations left and right, pissing me off with changes to file and playlist management, and generally trying to do too much and doing it all poorly.
Which makes me wonder - am I the only one using Quintessential Player (QCD)? Clean interface and option, playlist management that fit my sense of order, and a couple of easy-to-use plug-ins to add some additional functionality (like outputting the current track info for posting on my homepage). Anyone else like this particular piece of audio software?
Karma: Excellent, but still won't get you laid.
I'm not defending Thurott or attacking the parent poster--just pointing out that the argument isn't as clear cut as its made out to be. Furthermore, the guy apparently cites his own comment (or someone from the same website) as proof. That's at best a little disingenuous.
Using standard system widgets is the real black, assuming there's a good system theme in place.
"Brushed aluminum" in a widget toolkit is about as chic as fake wood panels, or plastic that's been painted silver. That is, not very.
It's cheap, too: just generate random noise on a blank canvas, then apply heavy linear motion blur. Adjust the colors to taste. (That last part might obviously be a problem for you.)
Personally, I don't like iTunes' interface at all, and I never did. I like Muine much better.
Who cares if WMP10 works with the wanna-be players and music stores? It doesn't work with ones most people are actually using.
Be sure to recheck which website you are posting to before posting. This is slashdot. People here think that programs like OpenOffice and other MSOffice killers are OK despite not being compatable with 99% of the rest of the world's users' documents and templates.
They figured it worked with the OS (Twice!) so why not stick with a proven strategy and went with "WWAD?".
What Would Apple Do?
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
If it had gone on any longer I'd have expected it to end with a money shot to a early 70's jazz guitar.
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
Most people can't even figure out what to download to enable the ogg codec on their systems in the first place.
Let's take the typical Windows Media Player user and say they want to play some ogg files.
1) serach for ogg on google and you find vorbis.com. "Cool, I can't wait to play these ogg files I legally obtained."
2) Try figure out where the "ogg" codec is and then click on the "vorbis" link.
3) Select OS and to come to a page which doesn't list WMP and only seems to have some old versions of winamp and some media players they have never even heard of.
4) Click "other software" because you can't find anything that will just let you play ogg files on WMP.
5) Scroll through through over 30 programs and then give up because you can't find what you need. Those with more patience will keep scrooling till they find "OggDS Direct Show Filters" which is something like the 40th program on the page. Install the codec and then realize that WMP doesn't support ogg very well and avoid ogg files in the future.
For whatever reason the people at Vorbis do everything in their power to keep people from using ogg in WMP and your asking why Microsoft doesn't do a better job at supporting ogg? Its a two way street.
The link to the DirectShow version of the Format should be 2 clicks away from the front page listed right under playes. If the Vorbis people want to see ogg marketshare grow among enduser they need to do a much better job at A)enabling them to play ogg files in WMP and B) adopting and advocating a GUI win32 encoder and c) explaing why ogg is better than mp3. Saying its not patent encumbered and saying its as good or slightly better than mp3 is't going to cut it. I don't envy them for that hard a task but I'm also not the one putting out the software.
I've said many times in the past that ogg is great for content producers. That does't change the fact that for all intended purposes ogg is very much a solution in search of a problem with regard to the idea of replacing the mp3 with consumers.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
WM-9 is an open, patent encumberet standard controlled by SMPTE. MS did that so they could be a contender for HD-DVD and BluRay. Both require open standards, though patents and fees are fine and expected.
Also they cannot use a format like MP3 or OGG, without adding DRM which kind of defeats the point. The record industry requires the use fo DRM, hence Apple's FairPlay shit.
Windows Media Player will also happily play MP3 files, as well as any other kind of file Windows has a DirectShow codec for. Want OGG support? Install the OGG DS codec and it's there.
Please: Educate yourself before you argue against something. It weakens your argument and makes you look silly when you harp on things that aren't true.
Ok, so I went and looked at the shot you linked.
I had no idea.
Don't know what to say.
One thing I will add - there are so many, so very many things I could single out - but one thing that really struck me is the complete loss of coherence between the desktop and a 'window'. I suspect there is a window open in that shot but I really cannot know for sure. There are window-control widgets scattered all over that screen and I have no idea what any of them relate to. None of the text labels are aligned... the clock, the fucking clock... gah, I'll stop there.
Maybe they want to help sell bigger screens on purpose, who knows. (You could make the same argument about Apple - except that OS X 10.4 introduces resolution scaling in the UI, so that kills their motivation to sell big screens that way...)
Now, having said all that - let's wait until its out of beta before we bash it. But yeah I totally agree, looking at that example, Longhorn Outlook Not So Good.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Although he has his own stand-alone pundit site, he also works for Windows IT Pro, which delivers "News about Windows and Microsoft. No fluff."
Asking him to talk in reasonable terms about a battle between Microsoft and Apple is like asking Guy Kawasaki in 1986 to talk about the advantages and disadvantages of PCs and Macs. Just look at what puts bread on the table for Thurrott.
Basically Thurrott seems to believe that Windows is "all about choice" because there is a monopolist (Microsoft) running the show. Any assaults on that monopoly seem to bring up his defenses. He'll give Apple and other players kudos, but in the dismissive way that IT people used to discuss Linux. He's generous when Microsoft is ascendant in a market, but nasty when someone else is in the lead.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Until WMP10, MS didn't bundle an mp3 encoder in with WMP. But Apple did, with iTunes.
MS only did so to keep up with Apple, if it were up to them, they'd remove customer choice in order to get them over to their own standard.
As to the idea that plug-ins make it all better, look at the video format wars. There is no format file since MPEG-1 that both QuickTime and MSFT will play without a plug-in. Why? Because of the battle for supremacy. And in the end, we all lose.
MS is trying to box you in. Apple is also, for the most part. But in this one case (iTunes), they didn't. They deserve some credit for forcing open this one door because they knew the customer would want it.
Maybe this happens because Apple refuses to license either the ipod or its format for use by other manufacturers.
They were lucky to get this much marketshare, but if they get anymore marketshare, they may be charged with abusing a monopoly by not sublicensing its technology. I am not sure how this would work with patents, since they grant you a monoply.
I guess the question is "Can one abuse a monopoly that is guaranteed by law?"
Anyway. I will not chose sides on which player/format is the best, because I do not really care, but I will not be quiet when anybody gets bashed for the wrong reason.
badness 10000
There used to always be the thing about "people will switch because it will be bundled with the OS". Well, last I heard something like 51% of Windows users are using XP. So, a lot of them simply aren't. PCs are basically at a plateau stage for people like home users.
Oh, and nearly everyone really wants an iPod. Most people who don't buy one that I've met want one, but have settled for something else.
Lucky, or smart?
[...] they may be charged with abusing a monopoly [..]
Having a monopoly is not the same as abusing a monopoly.
Reading Slashdot is ruining my spelling and grammar.
What would be great is a way to easily convert playlists between mediaplayers.
Winamp ??
iTunes.exe 34.5 MB Ram
Wmp10 10.4 MB Ram
i don't have Winamp anymore... but i suspect that the light version would be less of a burden than both the above.
WMP10 is not available for OS X/Mac.
Not all Windows Media Player 9 files will play on Windows Media Player 9 for OS X, never mind AVI files using WMP codecs. And they make it as difficult as possible for you to know that.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
Apparently the Help page of the MSN Music site contained instructions on how to circumvent the block on playing their songs on an IPOD.
u sic_store/
To transfer MSN-downloaded music to an iPod, you need to first create a CD with the music, and then you need to import that CD into iTunes. This process will convert the music into a format that can play on the iPod.
You can read about it here http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2004/09/03/ms_m
It's unfortunately all too common to expect this kind of FUD from Microsoft and their mindless proxies, like Thurrott. Of course, when Microsoft says they're all about choice, what they mean is they're all about enabling users to "choose" Microsoft.
John Gruber unspins the inanity much better than I can.
This "choice" nonsense that Microsoft is FUDing is shamefully disengenuous.
My other computer is your Windows box
Lucky or smart?
There may not be that much difference....
Having a monopoly is not the same as abusing a monopoly.
Agreed. But in the real world, it all depends on how many lawyers you can hire. Unfortunately.
Although it is my personal belief is that there should be no monopolies that reduce progress by doing almost nothing themselves. AKA -- get the patents on creation, do not get the monopoly that is simply by prohibiting markets.
Actually, I am realizing that I am presenting my position in a horrible way. I am too tired to try to explain my thinking. But the conclusion is that no one should have a monopoly just because they created a propriatary format and are forcing product choice by bundling. That is not creation, that is abuse.
Once again, sorry for not being very clear. Perhaps I will explain my reasoning again, when I am feeling better.
badness 10000
WMP 8 Was XP-only. Fortunately WMP 9 was not. I guess they decided their old ways were better. WMP is only for XP.
I'm running Win2k/SP$
Screw MS.
Scott
©20014 angrykeyboarder & Elmer Fudd. All Wights Wesewved
It makes me sick. I haven't tried the software out, but from the screenshots, it looks like they're adding mandatory ad space into the interface. I bet it's impossible to turn it off. So every time you look at the interface while it's open playing any media your brain will register "Buy it now at Napster". Over and over. Napster, napster. Spend your money. Instant gratification... for a price. Consume. Fuck that. Leave me alone, I just wanted to play this mp3 that ripped from a CD I already own.
Things like this remind me why I do everything on linux. The quirks and the slight incoveniences now and then make it all worthwhile when you aren't forced to put up with that kind of BS.
what's your point?
I'm installing it now, and was stunned to discover that you MUST archive your files so you can roll back your PC to pre-SP2 condition-- I was never given a choice as with previous 2000 and XP service packs.
Nothing bolsters my confidence in Microsoft and Windows quite like a tacit admission that they expect lots of people to have problems and therefore will need to uninstall SP2.
Netscape.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
Uh... duh.
http://www.apple.com/itunes/import.html
iTunes will import WMA files, just not DRM PROTECTED WMA files.
The iPod has over 50% marketshare.
WHat is the definition of this market? Who defines it? Who verifies Apple's share of it?
iTMS sells over 70% of online music.
How is this defined? Who defines it? Is there independent verification? Is this in total song license downloads? Is it in number of files streamed? Is it based on total "ear minutes" per month? Is it based on dollar volume revenue per period? Is it based on US, European, Asian, or global figures?
Da Blog
it certainly is the best media center design to date ... Microsoft copied iTunes
My friend,they are both cribbing from the most advanced player in terms of features, UI design and configurability, library management and client-server and zone playback modes: Media Center.
If you are going to *sell* a piece of jukebox software in the marketplace when so many monopolists are giving theirs away for "free" then you have to be very very very good indeed. And Media Center certainly is.
Da Blog
Not to mention the fact that Winamp has security holes and is in general far more clunky. WA4 pissed me off; WA5 is better, but iTunes is still far and away the sleeker player. I started using WA with version 2, used 5 for a while, then tried iTunes and dumped WA about 2 weeks later.
it may be me friend, but I have to knock iTunes/Quick time for playback on almost every Windows machine I've used.
General skipping and lack of audio tuning has me keeping WA2 and WA5 as my players of choice with iTunes as a backup player. I can count on WinAmp more than iTunes on my Windows 2000 in any public production scenario for smooth, constant playback.
I have used iTunes on MacOS 8.6 and 9.2. Definitly a well made product, but not a good translation to Windows
I do care enough about skins and plugins. Thats what drove me to winamp after using crappy software like RealJukebox and MusicMatch. I'm free to skin a simple GUI. If it lacks a feature, plug it in. But no matter how it looks or how well you can change it's features, make it work well the first time.
This was brought to you buy the Department of Redundancy Department
I hope Apple learned a lesson from the last time they created a groundbreaking product only to see it's marketshare dwindle due to their (greed, arrogance, shortsightedness?).
Apple seems to have a history of creating seemingly superior products only to have them surpassed in sales volume and marketshare by less expensive more widely compatible products.
If one looks at the history of the PC, it could be argued that at one time Apple was poised to dominate the market, but utterly failed when competitors brought a viable cheaper alternative to market.
This could be happening with the iPod / iTunes product line. Apple blew the doors off of all portable music players with the iPod, period. They have sold millions of devices. They have created a whole new market. They have changed popular culture. Just like they did with the PC!
With the release of WMP10, Microsoft is poised to end Apple's dominance in this market. How? The same way they did with the PC. They have created, or purchased, decent software for use with a host of hardware options. I currently see 6 online music stores to purchase songs from including Wal-Mart for $0.88 a song. There are many music players available that will interface seemlessly (according to MS) with WMP, and there are many more to come.
Is the iPod a superior piece of hardware? IMHO, Yes. I love mine, couldn't live without it! But, given Apple's track record, I don't see it being the dominant player in 2-3 years.
For years MS has been touting WMA's audio superiority over MP3 "at any bit rate" (see Demos: Audio Quality). However, Amorim's Multiformat at 128kbps public Listening Test showed LAME MP3 performing better than WMA 9 Standard. So I wouldn't be surprised if WMP 10 has a crappy MP3 encoder.
Maybe I'm just a cynical a-hole. I'm looking forward to Amorim's next MP3 listening test to see how WMP 10's MP3 encoder performs against LAME.
TO START
PRESS ANY KEY
Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...
Because you sound like one of those people who are so caught up in proving him wrong, that they make the same lies, mistatments and hair splitting that they accuse him of. You know, idiots.
What can one say, but that you're wrong. iTunes Store uses 100% Apple-proprietary FairPlay DRM.
So what does that have to do with the price of rice in China? He's not wrong, you boob, those files still use AAC, which is still an open standard. Which was his beef in the first place. Its the FairPlay wrapper that is proprietary. And no tracks that you yourself encode into AAC will have it.
Not wanting to licence WMA is a valid concern, but the issue is that nobody can use FairPlay without Apple's permission (and if you reverse-engineer it, Apple will sue you).
You're point being...what exactly? Microsoft will sue you just as fast for making a WMA device without asking them first, too. It should also be mentioned that there are tons of different restrictions on WMA songs, sometimes even from the same store. Whereas with AAC and FairPlay, there is only one set of restrictions for *all* songs.
Maybe you wouldn't be so sick of the iTMS comparison if you had your facts right.
Shut up, Mr. Pot.
Topics get modded down because of information that is redundant, offtopic or just generally not of any use. Not because of a typo. I'm sure most people here are smart enough to know that it should have been.
Anyway, presumably with this reg, most kinds of file format could be added into the media library. Kinda shows Microsofts intent. I daresay they'd love to remove the ability to have Mp3 files on the list, they just know too well they need to support the most widespread standard.
Usually I am always the first one to diss Microsoft and their products, but this one isn't actually half bad!
I use it instead of Winamp, why? Because it is completely free, there is no "full version" it has a faster cd burning/ripping method, there are more customized skins available for WMP, all the ones for WinAmp all look the same..
Also, I love the new interface, it has a very clean and uncluttered, yet very fancy interface. It is, in my opinion, a lot easier to use compared the the ugly multi-window mode of WinAMP.
I also like the ability to rip and variable bit-rates, it saves file size and hard drive space depending on the song itself, yet still keeps the great quality of the songs.
So, for the above reasons WMP is my player of choice, although others like WinAMP, foobar2000, etc aren't too bad, but I just really like the UI of this one.
Please, spare the weak flamage. (I don't even understand what you mean by the Moore reference.)
The argument was that iTunes Store-bought songs are more "open" than WMP Store-bought songs. Which is simply not the case.
Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
I don't even understand what you mean by the Moore reference.
I'm not surprised, as you seem to be pretty stupid. The point was that in their rush to prove Moore wrong on his movie F911, his dectractons don't him wrong, and commit the same lies, mistatments of facts, etc that they accuse him of doing. So they are a) wrong b) stupid c) dicks. Like you.
The argument was that iTunes Store-bought songs are more "open" than WMP Store-bought songs. Which is simply not the case.
No, the PP's beef was how the press keeps calling AAC Apple's proprietary format, which it obviously isn't. Go back and reread his post.
Oh, you're still amped up about some flamewar from 3 months ago, but since nobody cares anymore, you've somehow conflated it into your unhappy state of Apple Zealotry. Sounds more like your shrink's problem than mine.
Parent talks about iTMS, I say FairPlay is proprietary, and your swift rebuttal is that FairPlay is proprietary.
With a winning argument like that I can why you felt like your only exit strategy was to be an insulting jerk and to attempt to change the topic. Well, enough faulty thought from you -- go get a refund from whomever attempted to educate you, and check in with that shrink.
Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
That is a cool-azz feature. Thanks for the info.
The truth doesn't care what I think.