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Hardening Apache

Gianluca writes "If security is not a concern, installing the Apache web server is a simple task even for an inexperienced system administrator. The problem is that security should always be a concern, and in case of Apache the information about making it secure can be sparse and fragmented. This is probably the reason why many web administrators are pretty clueless when it comes to Apache security. Needless to say, this creates a worrisome situation (to say the least): many web servers are vulnerable and exposed to thousands of potential attackers." Read on for Gianluca's review of Hardening Apache, a book intended to consolidate and clarify that information. Hardening Apache author Tony Mobily pages 270 publisher Apress rating 9 reviewer Gianluca Insolvibile ISBN 1590593782 summary A thorough guide through the intricacies and gotchas involved in securing an Apache installation

Hardening Apache fills a huge gap in this sense, providing web administrators with a complete and yet concise book aimed to guide them from the very beginning of the installation process to the final steps of the server configuration. The author, Tony Mobily, is also the mind behind Professional Apache Security, a book published by Wrox Press which I reviewed on Slashdot about 17 months ago. Since Wrox's unfortunate closure, some of the material from that book has been moved into Hardening Apache. More specifically:

  • The excellent chapter on "jailing" Apache is exactly the same;
  • The chapter on XSS attacks has been slightly improved;
  • The chapter on logging, which was nothing remarkable, has been greatly improved. It now includes a complete architecture to log on a remote host using encryption and a TCP/IP connection.

The first chapter of the book deals with deploying a clean and safe base installation, which will then be the grounds for adding extra functionality. Unfortunately, this task is often underestimated. What I liked in this chapter is the step-by-step guide to correctly downloading the source distribution and verifying its integrity (by checking its digital signature), as well as the clean approach to the creation of a lean, easily readable configuration file, which grants a painless maintenance. A highlight of this section is the use of Nikto to analyse and explain common weaknesses and to show how to fix them.

Chapter 2 presents some vulnerabilities and explains how to exploit them. The chapter doesn't have any "pearls of wisdom" (but it's nevertheless important to show that Apache can be vulnerable), and presents some important reference sites every web administrator should be aware of.

Chapter 3 definitely deserves a special mention: after introducing the "common" ways of logging and syslogd's architecture, the author describes a rational approach to realizing a complete logging solution which entails remote log servers, encryption of logs, and the use of a MySQL database to better organize them.

Chapter 4 is the only one which deals with the "programming" side of web security. It is not a comprehensive guide on how to write safe programs for the web, as it focuses on cross-site scripting attacks; it shows how to secure a simple and vulnerable message board written in PHP.

The following chapter talks about security modules: it presents an interesting overview of the most useful modules related to security, which will help administrators understand the importance of third-party modules and explains how to install and use some of them. I also liked Chapter 6, which deals with the installation of Apache in a secure, chrooted environment: the chapter does a great job in guiding the reader through the non-trivial steps required to get Apache, Perl and PHP working correctly in such a restricted environment.

The last chapter presents a number of powerful and well-written scripts which anybody can use to automate security and keep an eye on their web server (monitoring log growth, Apache's responsiveness, and so on).

What's to like Information throughout the book is very well focused and presented with a clean and friendly writing style. The book provides a clear and detailed walkthrough of the process of securing an Apache installation, covering both versions 1.3.x and 2.x and thus providing long lasting information. The book has lots of references and pointers to resources on the web, and - what's more important - instructions on how to read them. I also liked the "checkpoints" at the end of each chapter.

What's to consider Apart from chapter 4 on cross-site scripting attacks, the book does not cover secure web programming at all. It doesn't cover OS hardening either, which is out of scope but part of the game anyway. Going through the book requires some familiarity with Unix and Apache; otherwise you will have to resort to other books for the very basic steps.

All in all, I found this sort of "new edition" of the book by Apress to be greatly enhanced, more homogeneous and better focused than the previous book: I had been happy with Wrox's version, but I am enthusiastic about this one. This is a book which should definitely be included in any serious Apache administrator's bookshelf.

You can purchase Hardening Apache from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

241 comments

  1. Stupid is a Stupid does by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How many of you so called admins do this:

    % su
    % httpd start

    Well, do us all a favor and stop that. If you don't then spend your valuable time stopping so called insecure services such as finger, time, ping, etc...

    1. Re:Stupid is a Stupid does by cbreaker · · Score: 4, Funny

      How many of you so called admins do this:

      %su
      %httpd start

      when we all know it should be

      %su
      #httpd start

      --
      - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
    2. Re:Stupid is a Stupid does by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      only a farking moron disable's ping and BREAKS many RFC standards.

      idiots disable ping. It there for a reason, just because asshat's use it to find targets does not make it something you dont need.

    3. Re:Stupid is a Stupid does by geeveees · · Score: 2

      How many of you so called admins do this:

      %su
      #httpd start

      when we ALL know it should be

      %su -
      #httpd start

      --
      I am a viral sig. Please help me spread.
    4. Re:Stupid is a Stupid does by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many of you so called admins do this:

      %su
      #httpd start

      when we ALL know it should be

      %su -
      #httpd start

    5. Re:Stupid is a Stupid does by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many of you so called admins do this:

      %su
      #httpd start

      when we ALL know it should be

      %su -
      #service httpd start
      or /etc/rc.d/httpd start

    6. Re:Stupid is a Stupid does by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey!

      There's also (besides the # in stead of %) a - there???

      Just pointing out..

    7. Re:Stupid is a Stupid does by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      You're all wrong:

      %sudo apachectl start

    8. Re:Stupid is a Stupid does by Blue+Lang · · Score: 2, Informative

      apache drops root privs on startup.

      --
      i browse at -1 because they're funnier than you are.
    9. Re:Stupid is a Stupid does by supun · · Score: 1

      I have ping disabled on our system for machines outside of my subnet. It is something I don't need. It might be something someone else needs, but I don't care.

      #ICMP traffic
      einfo "Creating icmp chain"
      $IPTABLES -N icmp_allowed
      $IPTABLES -F icmp_allowed
      $IPTABLES -A icmp_allowed -p icmp -s $NETWORK -j ACCEPT
      $IPTABLES -A icmp_allowed -p icmp -s 127.0.0.1 -j ACCEPT
      $IPTABLES -A icmp_allowed -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -p icmp --icmp-type echo-reply -j ACCEPT
      $IPTABLES -A icmp_allowed -m state --state NEW -p icmp --icmp-type echo-reply -j ACCEPT
      $IPTABLES -A icmp_allowed -m state --state NEW -p icmp --icmp-type time-exceeded -j ACCEPT
      $IPTABLES -A icmp_allowed -m state --state NEW -p icmp --icmp-type destination-unreachable -j ACCEPT
      $IPTABLES -A icmp_allowed -p icmp -j LOG --log-prefix "Bad ICMP traffic:"
      $IPTABLES -A icmp_allowed -p icmp -j DROP

      --
      :w!
    10. Re:Stupid is a Stupid does by Neil+Blender · · Score: 1

      %su
      #httpd start


      This implies:
      %which su
      alias su='sudo su'
      and /user ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL in /etc/sudoers

    11. Re:Stupid is a Stupid does by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      which is exactly the same as

      $ sudo httpd

    12. Re:Stupid is a Stupid does by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      [me@box:~/somedir] /var/lib/.43s6 /opt/apache2/bin/httpd -DSSL

      Where /var/lib/.43s6 is the moved sudo binary; the original sudo being replaced by:
      #! /bin/bash
      export UID=1
      export HOME=/root
      export PS1='# '
      following the only proven rule regarding security, which is:
      secure == obscure
    13. Re:Stupid is a Stupid does by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sorry it's:

      % su -
      # /etc/init.d/apache2 start

    14. Re:Stupid is a Stupid does by wbav · · Score: 1

      following the only proven rule regarding security, which is:

      secure == obscure


      Which is why my webserver is only accessable through the octal represntation of its ip.

      --

      =================
      Unix is very user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are.
    15. Re:Stupid is a Stupid does by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, RFCs aren't standards they are requests for comments on suggested ways of doing things.

      You don't have to stick to them, a few sites like rfc-ignorant.org hammer people for not using the globally accepted ones but that doesn't mean every single one is absolute in law. Lots are jokes, IMPS is a particularly good one.

      To take your point up, name one thing the average user needs thats gonna break if they stop returning pings.
      I've not been returning any ICMP for about 5 years and its never been a problem. You don't even need to accept incoming ICMP replies if you don't mind waiting for the connections to timeout instead of getting the echo unreachable messages.

    16. Re:Stupid is a Stupid does by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyone that types plain 'su' or 'sudo' without an explicit path is a moron.

      Any program that messes with root privileges should be executed by an explicit path.

    17. Re:Stupid is a Stupid does by Phillup · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Any RFC standard that breaks because it looks just like the computer on the other end of the line is turned off... needs breaking any way.

      If you have a specific need to know I am here... it should be a part of your protocol.

      Because, other than those things I want to work... my machine does not exist.

      In short: I don't need ping replies to work. So, my machine does not do it.

      --

      --Phillip

      Can you say BIRTH TAX
    18. Re:Stupid is a Stupid does by cbreaker · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I actually like ping, I leave it on since my cablemodem isn't all that reliable and it's a nice easy way to check if it's up when I'm at work. If port 23456 stops responding, I can ping to see if it's just the application or the connection.

      I also use it as a monitor from another location so I can redirect certian traffic if it stops responding.

      Sure, I could go firewall nazi and only allow ping from certain locations, but hell, it's only ping.

      Not to say you MUST use it, but I find nothing particularly evil about it that it MUST be blocked.

      --
      - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
    19. Re:Stupid is a Stupid does by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Perhaps I'm mistaken here, but the apache daemon itself still maintains root priveleges, it's the children it spawns which do not. If someone managed to stick their own module and load it in the config, I believe it still runs with root priveleges on startup.

    20. Re:Stupid is a Stupid does by cliffwoolley · · Score: 1

      Of course it does... it couldn't bind to port 80 if it didn't start up as root. You are correct that it is the children that run with decreased privileges.

      If somebody has gotten enough access to your box to add an arbitrary module to your httpd config, you're in pretty big trouble anyhow...

    21. Re:Stupid is a Stupid does by consolidatedbord · · Score: 1

      appending the - to the su command will create the environment as if the user had logged in directly from a login prompt.

      --
      while true ; do echo this is my sig; done
    22. Re:Stupid is a Stupid does by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know this was just a joke, but the command won't work. You either need to pass the '-k' option to httpd or use apachectl.

      #httpd -k start

  2. One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Sheetrock · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Its configuration is unusually complex for a webserver. I wouldn't be surprised if many of its so-called "security holes" actually came about because of misconfiguration by an administrator who was confused by the layout of the documentation or config files.

    In a way, Internet Information Services provides a more secure environment because an administrator gets a wealth of help and a decent initial configuration. In the end it's all about knowing your product, but it helps if the product helps you.

    --

    Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
    -- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.




    1. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      run an intelligent distribution then. I feel that the default setup from Debian is pretty damn secure and has quite a clean setup.

    2. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      so why is it IIS exploit attempts always fill logs and not apache exploit attempts? Can't use the usual MS deployment numbers with this one.

    3. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Zebra_X · · Score: 1

      IIS exploit attempts

      the default config in 2k3 is very pessimistic. can't say that i've had one of those work since the orginal code red.

    4. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IIS always has a wealth of vulnerabilities including the default site that is installed with it. Maybe it's configuration isn't the issue, as could be with Apache, but to me that is a much worse situation to deal with, no? If you're in charge of configuring apache securely and you don't know how, get this book or have someone else do it. Webmin and the like makes this less of an issue too.

    5. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by tcopeland · · Score: 5, Informative

      > In the end it's all about knowing your product,

      In "Apache: The Definitive Guide", Ben and Peter Laurie suggest a way to learn how to build an Apache config file - start with a blank file, and start Apache. Oops, it won't start. OK, so what's it missing? Check the log files. It needs a User directive - OK, add that. Try to start. Hm, it started, but where do I put my HTML? Ah, add a DocumentRoot. And so forth.

      This really doesn't take as long as it sounds - and after about 10 minutes of adding directives and restarting Apache, you'll have a lean configuration file that has just what you need in it - and you'll know how you got there, where the error logs are, and so on.

    6. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by ThogScully · · Score: 4, Interesting

      When I've used Apache2, it's configuration setup seems a lot more organized and structured. It's still text files, but they make more sense and they are modularized better.

      Granted, that's just the in the distribution, not the server version... but at least it shows it's getting better at that. Now if only more people used Apache2, things would just fix themselves ;-)
      -N

      --
      I've nothing to say here...
    7. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes attempts, but they are attempted, presumably as they are more successful than attempts to exploit flaws in apache.

    8. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Informative

      Its configuration is unusually complex for a webserver.

      Really? I never found it all that hard. Most of the complex stuff is inserted in the default file, but is not insecure in of itself. You just have to think about everything you do after that.

      I wouldn't be surprised if many of its so-called "security holes" actually came about because of misconfiguration by an administrator who was confused by the layout of the documentation or config files.

      In my experience, most Apache security issues are related to giving access to files that shouldn't be on the web. Doing things like symlinking directories is very powerful, but it's also very dangerous. Also keep in mind that if an attacker can upload a script, he already has access to your system. These sorts of problems (as well as undiscovered buffer overflow issues) can be mitigated by the use of Jails. When you jail Apache, you ensure that any attacker that does gain access, will only have access to Apache files.

      A typical Apache security problem would be something like an FTP server that has an anonymous account with access to a web-sharable directory. An attacker uploads a PHP script to the web-share, and it's game over for your machine/network.

    9. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      My god man you are unbelieveably funny.

      IIS more secure? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

      Oh gawd, I just pissed myself from hearing that funny of a statement!

      oh, cant.... breathe.... laughing too .....much....

    10. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Foofoobar · · Score: 5, Informative

      Sorry but IIS has more critical exploits in any given month than Apache has all YEAR! Why do you think Apache owns 70% of the web? Microsoft made a push in 2001 but could only get as high as 35%... at which point it tanked back to it's previous high of about 22%

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    11. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Blue+Lang · · Score: 4, Insightful

      you'll also have a gimpy, crapped-up config file that other admins have to wade through after you get fired.

      the best thing about the pre-built apache config files is the degree to which they are self-documenting. you can learn everything you need to know about apache just by reading through the comments. the second-best thing about them is that they're the same on all of your servers. the third best thing about them is that you don't have to read through a bunch of documentation to find out-of-date and non-working examples of config stanzas, because they're already there, commented out and waiting for some s/ action.

      --
      i browse at -1 because they're funnier than you are.
    12. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by lewp · · Score: 1

      That's a good suggestion. Once you get the barebones config the way you want, save it and use it for every server you deploy (with the necessary modifications/additions, of course).

      I spent about 3 hours years ago making my Apache config, and I haven't had to do it again. I have a second one I made last year for Apache 2, and I expect it to last me just as long.

      --
      Game... blouses.
    13. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Saint+Aardvark · · Score: 1
      That's a really good idea. I've got to do that at some point.

      Actually, that'd be a really good way to approach any complex piece of software: BIND, MySQL, SSH...sure, a lot of it would depend on how good the logging is, but boy, would you ever learn it from the ground up.

    14. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by tcopeland · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > a gimpy, crapped-up config file

      Hm. I find smaller configuration files to have both a lower gimp quotient and a reduced crapification level.

      > they are self-documenting.

      True, although there's a ton of stuff in there most folks won't use - content negotiation and such-like.

      > they're the same on all of your servers

      Hm. Most of my servers have different config files - different vhost names, different modules, etc. Perhaps if they were all fronting one application that might be different...

    15. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Saint+Aardvark · · Score: 1
      you'll also have a gimpy, crapped-up config file that other admins have to wade through after you get fired.

      C'mon, surely you know the difference between "learning exercise" and "what I leave behind for my successors"!

    16. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by tcopeland · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > boy, would you ever learn it from
      > the ground up

      Right on. And you'd know what all the funky error messages look like, too, which is nice...

    17. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by GoofyBoy · · Score: 1

      >In "Apache: The Definitive Guide", Ben and Peter Laurie suggest a way to learn how to build an Apache config file - start with a blank file, and start Apache.

      I'm not a sysadmin or worked with Apache, but doesn't this sound a bit crude to figure out a configuration of a system?

      Its like going through the Apache source code to see what strings in the config file they are looking for.

      --
      The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
    18. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by tonymercmobily · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I coulnd't agree more with you.

      The point is that if you write your config file by hand, then you HAVE TO know each directive (well, sort of).
      That's part of the reason why I wrote the first chapter that way...

      Merc.
      (The book's author)

    19. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Skjellifetti · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In "Apache: The Definitive Guide", Ben and Peter Laurie suggest a way to learn how to build an Apache config file - start with a blank file, and start Apache. Oops, it won't start. OK, so what's it missing? Check the log files. It needs a User directive - OK, add that. Try to start. Hm, it started, but where do I put my HTML? Ah, add a DocumentRoot. And so forth.

      No, its not add that. Its copy that and the associated comment from the original stock config file apache provides. Now your lean config file is documented, looks just like apache's and won't confuse your successor. I generally do this with any new daemon I install that requires a config file. Note that from a security standpoint this may not be good enough if the daemon's secure options are turned off by default since you may not see any warnings in the logs.

    20. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by cpeterso · · Score: 1


      Why doesn't Apache just ship a leaner default config file?

    21. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Why do you think Apache owns 70% of the web?"

      Because domain-squatters use it?

    22. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by timts · · Score: 1

      apache might own 70% of individual, personal web sites, since they are free.
      PC domains like marketwatch.com which handles hundreds of millions of hits every day is behind a router of a PC farm of IIS, which those "survey" doesnot account for.

    23. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      When I've used Apache2, it's configuration setup seems a lot more organized and structured. It's still text files, but they make more sense and they are modularized better.
      What is wrong with plaintext config files??
    24. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful


      Sorry but IIS has more critical exploits in any given month than Apache has all YEAR!

      Could I ask you to list all of these vulnerabilities for IIS? Secunia only returned eight vulnerabilites (I searched on "IIS vulnerabilities") and four of those don't appear to be issue with IIS itself. The other four don't appear to affect Microsoft's latest version (6.0). A search on "apache vulnerabilities" returned 63 alerts. I'm not going to search through all 63 alerts but on the surface it appears that Apache has more problems than IIS.

      Thanks.

    25. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My tux+apache cluster handles over 30 million hits a day. But what do I know, maybe I should put it on IIS. lol.

    26. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by elmegil · · Score: 1
      Its configuration is unusually complex for a webserver.

      Have you tried to configure netscape's webserver, or its successors from Sun/iPlanet? That is what I consider "unusually complex" in configuration for a webserver.

      --
      7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
    27. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by jrnchimera · · Score: 1

      What do you folks think about the Gentoo portage install of Apache2? Is it reasonably setup?

    28. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by jc42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Of course, you could reinterpret "start with a blank file" to mean "Add a '#' to the start of every line in the sample httpd.conf file". That would give you a "blank" file, but with all the documentation and examples very easily available.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    29. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Foofoobar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yep and I can still name 7 for every one of yours. How about Microsoft huh? Everytime a DDOS attack comes, gues who they duck and cover behind? LINUX and APACHE!!! :)

      Do a check on Netcraft for *.microsoft.com sometimes and check the first couple hundred servers for what they are running. If IIS is so damn good, how come Microsoft is always duck and covering behind open source? :)

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    30. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      Yeah but if only editors (vi or emacs in my case) had a 'fold away the comments' mode; in many cases in order to find whats actually configured, its easier to just;

      grep -v "^#\|^$" /etc/apache/httpd.conf

      so that I can see the woods through the trees so to speak.

      Comments arn't always good.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    31. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by realdpk · · Score: 2, Informative

      We use Include's to handle that. Include conf/vhosts.conf for example. Then the httpd.conf files are, almost always, identical.

    32. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IIS6 has yet to HAVE a vulnerability. This is in over a year.

      But dont expect to get modded up.

    33. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Zeinfeld · · Score: 1
      In "Apache: The Definitive Guide", Ben and Peter Laurie suggest a way to learn how to build an Apache config file - start with a blank file, and start Apache. Oops, it won't start. OK, so what's it missing? Check the log files. It needs a User directive - OK, add that. Try to start. Hm, it started, but where do I put my HTML? Ah, add a DocumentRoot. And so forth.

      That is a good start, but also make sure you start from a completely blank file tree, delete all the default cgi scripts etc. A lot of exploits in Apache and IIS have the same cause - holes in the demo scripts that the installer never even knew had been enabled.

      The configuration point is a very good one. It is all very well for folk to go flaming on about how great Linux and Apache are and then go run four year old distributions with no security patches. It only takes one hole for an attacker to get through. Apache and IIS both have enough holes found each year to make running an unpatched out of date distribution risky. The absolute number of bugs found is only really relevant if it is indicative of the probability of a zero day attack being found, in this case the higher number of IIS bugs found seems to be mostly due to more lines of code and more people actively reviewing them.

      In the old orange book world there was a requirement for an O/S to come with a security guide in order to get any level of accreditation. Linux today would still flunk C level accreditation because the security information is not brought together in one single comprehensive guide.

      Orange book is way out dated, but the requirement to document secure configuration is still relevant, it was by far the most useful requirement.

      --
      Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
      Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
    34. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go find an IIS6 hole.
      Can't?
      That's right.

    35. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by pdxaaron · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Bzzzzt! Wrong... How many exploits have been found for IIS 6 in the year + it has been available? That would be 0. IIS 5 is a just plain bad application, but IIS 6 has been rock solid so far. Why is it you FOSS mouthpieces ignore this fact when spouting off your party line?

    36. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      An ALERT is not the same thing as a CRITICAL EXPLOIT... duh! Check my wording more carefully next time. If you think an alert is the same thing as a CRITICAL EXPLOIT, then Microsoft has a huge jumpstart on EVERYONE!

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    37. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by t35t0r · · Score: 1

      can you show me a ms server not running iis?

    38. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      Here you go... check out all those url's ending in Microsoft and then check what they are running :)

      Linux on all of them :)

      If that's not what you meant and you just want to see a Windows machine running Apache, they are all over the place. Check out www.proclub.com for starters; they're Microsofts health club and they run Apache.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    39. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Foofoobar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Microsofts autoupdate was ever so recently running on Linux as well http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=autoupda te.microsoft.com

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    40. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by tty21 · · Score: 1

      The money invested in a product that bundles Apache is well spent ie: SUSE pro I haven't seen many breaches of the out of the box - patched SUSE machines. There's definitely room for misadventure on a manual install....

      --
      The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dogs back 123456789
    41. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Skjellifetti · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Oh, did you shoot yourself in the ass and get a silver star for it too? I support my troops, and I am voting for Bush.

      Comments like that are a great way to win people over to your side. In fact, it is precisely the tactics of the Swift Boat Liars and rude fools like this AC who have convinced me to wholeheartedly support Kerry even though I'd rather vote for a third party candidate. Well, that and the fact that Bush has proven to be really incompetent at conducting wars.

    42. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by waterwheel · · Score: 1

      That won't do me much good on a production server that I'm trying to harden. Clearly I can't do that live. I don't know how much time it would take me to produce something that I could migrate to a live system without having nightmares about downtime using this methodology. Don't get me wrong - the idea is fabulous if you're learning or starting on a new system.

    43. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by wobblie · · Score: 1

      Interesting that you mention this, since the reason there are so damn many compromised IIS boxes out there is directly related to it's being too easy. And here you are talking about "apache security holes" as if it were anywhere near the problem of all those auto-hacked IIS boxes.

    44. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      An ALERT is not the same thing as a CRITICAL EXPLOIT... duh! Check my wording more carefully next time. If you think an alert is the same thing as a CRITICAL EXPLOIT, then Microsoft has a huge jumpstart on EVERYONE!

      In other words "I got my ass handed to me and now I'm going to be pedantic about the wording"

      Exploits are meaningless in this context. They're not an indicator of how secure or insecure a piece of software is. It's the number of vulnerabilities that reflect the security level of a piece of software.

    45. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Exploits are meaningless in this context. They're not an indicator of how secure or insecure a piece of software is. It's the number of vulnerabilities that reflect the security level of a piece of software.

      Yes and no. For one, I'm a lot more nervous about live exploits running around that can get to my machine than potential exploits. For another, just because it's *possible* to exploit something doesn't mean it's practical. I imagine a number of alerts are along the lines of "Hey, this looks like it's theoretically exploitable. Let's fix that."

      The more effort it takes the hack a vulnerability, the fewer exploits will make it to the wild. While that's not ideal, it's still something.

    46. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Sinner · · Score: 1
      you'll also have a gimpy, crapped-up config file that other admins have to wade through after you get fired.


      A small, custom config file takes much less wading than the default! A method I've found works wonders when I inherit an Apache server is to strip out all the comments with something like

      perl -ni.old -e 'print unless /^#/' apache.conf

      Suddenly, like magic, you have a config file that you can see what it does. You then have a headstart on removing cruft, bugs, obsolete and redundant stuff.

      Finally, add brief comments to explain why you did things the way you did. You'll thank yourself when you have to change something a year later.

      Obviously an Apache newbie isn't going to understand the result without consulting the documentation. On the other hand, consulting the documentation is an excellent way to cease being an Apache newbie!
      --
      fish and pipes
    47. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by JerkBoB · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Include conf/vhosts.conf for example.

      This guy should get more + moderation! That method is one of the best ways to keep your apache configs sane, especially if you've got a whole bunch of servers that aren't part of a cluster or whatever (i.e. identical configs for all).

      We actually take it a step further and do "Include conf.d/" from the httpd.conf, where conf.d is a subdirectory with configuration "containers" that are automatically included on startup/reload. That way we just drop individual vhost configs into their own files. No parsing/rewriting required for automation!

      I got that trick from the way Debian does things in Sarge and started using it on our stable web servers. Dunno if other distros do it that way, but it's a great idea.

      --
      A host is a host from coast to coast...
      Unless it's down, or slow, or fails to POST!
    48. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      Yeah... nice try. Using your logic, 500 traffic tickets for Linux would be equivalent to 50 murders by Windows.

      Also try to keep in mind that Microsoft is OFTEN told of these exploits 6 months to a year in advance and they STILL remain out in the wild until someone actually builds the tool to take advantage of the exploit. At which point millions of machines must first suffer before they will take care of the problem.

      If there were a prize for talking out your ass, you'd win a blue ribbon, baby.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    49. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      And just to make sure your mouth stays shut and you start redirected your shit out of it's regular hole, how about a nice long list of exploits (with actual show of code used to make said exploit work)

      http://www.malware.com/
      http://www.malware.com/ index2.html
      http://www.safecenter.net/UMBRELLAWEB V4/ie_unpatch ed/index.html

      Wow. Windows sure looks secure to me... NOT! Surf around, you can use those code samples all day long exploiting Windows machines. Now how about you give me a sample that is current and none of this outdated exploits bullshit; I gave you exploits that work with current versions of XP and Windows Server 2003... you do the same for current Linux installs.

      I'll accept silence as the fact that you don't know what you're talking about.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    50. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by timts · · Score: 1

      at least for a few big firms I know, they dont duck and cover behind apache, just some hardware router or windows software can handle those easily.

    51. Re:One of the unfortunate things about Apache... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      do not feed the troll :-)

      iis...hmm, just another bad joke from redmond

  3. secure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    If security is not a concern, installing the Apache web server is a simple task even for an inexperienced system administrator Yet I still preffer IIS, according to research, it's more easy to install, and up to 70% more secure; according to research that is.

    1. Re:secure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Yet I still preffer IIS, according to research, it's more easy to install, and up to 70% more secure...

      +1 Funny. I hope.

    2. Re:secure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Redundant

      so why is it IIS exploit attempts always fill logs and not apache exploit attempts? Can't use the usual MS deployment numbers with this one.

    3. Re:secure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      IF it's so secure, why are my apache logs filled with IIS buffer overflow attacks? The only actual direct attacks I have ever seen on my servers are sorry attempts at dictionary attacks.

    4. Re:secure by Nichotin · · Score: 1

      Yes. I also prefer IIS over Apache anytime. Only issue I have had is the \tagged\by\~~~~-folders that appears in the IIS documentroot over the night. Weird, but they are filled with warez, so I'm not complaining.

  4. Don't forget by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    To Harden PHP while you're at it.

    1. Re:Don't forget by pyrrhonist · · Score: 0, Offtopic
      To Harden PHP while you're at it.

      ...or your concrete for that professional look.

      --
      Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
  5. Re:Lead-in [OT, sorta] by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    but saying the least will always need less info.

  6. Umm. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting


    OpenBSD's Apache has a diff of 3 or 4 thousand lines over "stock" Apache. Why not just use that?

    1. Re:Umm. by stratjakt · · Score: 0, Troll

      Why does a bunch of different lines of code mean anything other than they were necessary to run under a (NetCraft-confirmed dead) OS?

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    2. Re:Umm. by Triumph+The+Insult+C · · Score: 5, Interesting

      here is a link about just that

      and it's not that they haven't tried feeding the patches back, either. the ASF is being utterly retarded about accepting them. more and more

      --
      vodka, straight up, thank you!
    3. Re:Umm. by grub · · Score: 1


      Excellent links, thank you.

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    4. Re:Umm. by umshaggy · · Score: 1
      I must infer that you are implying that all of these different lines of code are all security patches? I am afraid that I must look up on this with a bit of dis-belief.

      If you ARE saying that these are mostly security fixes, could you provide some references to show where the info comes from?

      Whether or not you are not claiming that they are mostly security fixes, I fail to see how differences in source code for the binaries has anything to do with securing an installation through configuration. Surely, if there are holes caused by configuration, it doesn't matter if the code it self was 100% secure (which is impossible) because the configuration would make it insecure.

      --
      Did you buy a Neuros today?
    5. Re:Umm. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Not all bugs/bad coding are security problems but all security problems are bugs/bad coding. So, yes, those 4000 lines of diff can't hurt.

    6. Re:Umm. by Triumph+The+Insult+C · · Score: 2, Informative

      step 1: groups.google.com
      step 2: search on 'no more apache updates group:lucky.openbsd.misc' (no quotes)

      read that. this one in particular to answer your question. it was also covered here on /.

      --
      vodka, straight up, thank you!
    7. Re:Umm. by umshaggy · · Score: 1
      First, thank you very much, Triumph, for the links and info. If I hadn't already posted I'd be modding you up as "Informative" right now. :)

      Second, on re-reading, I realize that my first post sounded confrontational, which was not my intent. My appologies to the original AC that posted.

      Third, my point (which I didn't make very well) wasn't that the BSD version was not more secure in code. It very well may be, and knowing BDS, probably IS more secure in terms of bug fixes. However, this was not the original topic. The book being reviewed, unless I misunderstand the reviewer and the synopsis, covered how to harden an installation, not a code-base. So even if you have an installation that has more secure code, the book still applies because you can still alter the config settings to make it safer. My issue was with the original statement that 1000s of lines of diffs meant that one didn't have to worry about securing the installation.

      --
      Did you buy a Neuros today?
    8. Re:Umm. by jekewa · · Score: 1

      Changes don't guarantee they had anything to do with security.

      --
      End the FUD
    9. Re:Umm. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      here is a link about just that

      They aren't very useful links, they're just the OpenBSD folks flaming the Apache folks.

      Any better background?

    10. Re:Umm. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once patched, does it run on Linux? If not, no thanks.

    11. Re:Umm. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once patched, does it run on Linux? If not, no thanks.

      Do you have some critical reason to use Linux, or are you just being mule-headed? Granted, there are many reasons why you may not have a choice, but why get an incredibly secure lock for a cardboard box? Just go for the safe.

    12. Re:Umm. by BandwidthHog · · Score: 1

      I just metamodded that Troll as unfair. Redundant I probably would have agreed with, Funny I would have left untouched.

      --

      Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
  7. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  8. Devil's Advocate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    You could also take the time to read about Hardening IIS. Come get me Mods =)

    1. Re:Devil's Advocate by Zeebs · · Score: 5, Funny

      We can also read The Bible if we believe in miracles.

      --

      Happy Noodle Boy says "F###ing doughnut! Mock me? You fried cyclops!!"
    2. Re:Devil's Advocate by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      Oops, it seems you got the wrong link, here's the correct one for The Bible.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    3. Re:Devil's Advocate by FattMattP · · Score: 3, Funny
      A whole book on how to unplug a computer? Sheesh!

      j/k

      --
      Prevent email address forgery. Publish SPF records for y
    4. Re:Devil's Advocate by YU+Nicks+NE+Way · · Score: 1

      How many critical alerts have been released against IIS 6 in the 16 months since it's been released?

      Answer: None.

    5. Re:Devil's Advocate by pyrrhonist · · Score: 1
      How many critical alerts have been released against IIS 6 in the 16 months since it's been released? Answer: None.

      This one is labeled "Moderately Critical".

      --
      Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
  9. Is that anything like... by gregarican · · Score: 4, Funny

    a cigar store wooden Indian? Sorry, I hadda say it...

  10. simple people should use simple webservers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if admins don't know how to find the solutions to make something like apache work, they should do themselves a favor and use thttpd or any other of the scaled-down can't-hurt-yourself-if-you-wanted-to webservers

  11. Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    To harden Apache, you just rub it the right way.

    *I apologize*

    1. Re:Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not so fast with that mouse, Buck-o. "Insightful" is the one *below* "Funny".

    2. Re:Well by The+Angry+Mick · · Score: 4, Funny

      So that's where all those "child" processes come from . . .

      --

      I'm not tense. I'm just terribly, terribly, alert.

    3. Re:Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0



      Yeah, it's just a shame Apache can't rub itself, like the /. crowd regularly does.

  12. Re:Interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Next step is a minimal Debian Stable installation to run it off. The best and most secure Linux distro out there.

  13. Maximum Apache Security by Foofoobar · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Picked up Maximum Apache Security at Apache-Con last year and it has proven very useful. But any Apache administrator worth his salt knows most of this already. I don't see why you say it's fragmented and hard to find.

    --
    This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
  14. Just in time by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 0, Troll

    This book review is just perfect, considering the "How can I hack with google" story earlier today.

    Quick, go rush out and buy it before the kiddies hack YOU!

    --
    liqbase :: faster than paper
  15. Problems by The_Mystic_For_Real · · Score: 0, Troll
    Although I haven't yet read this book, from the description it sounds like it could be a real help to me. With Apache on Linux I found that just to get things up and running was a long and involved process that was in no way trivial.

    There seemed to be little in the way of practical material that gave specific and step-by-step instructions for installing and running Apache on Linux. Apache on Linux requires you to spend 8 hours per day just to keep it up and running, and while its performance and security is fine if you have the time and staff for it, there is no way to just set it up and let it sit while installing patches when needed.

    Before working with Apache I had been dubious as to MS's claims about TCO but after that experience I can say that in a situation where you can't spend all your time working on the server itself, Microsoft products can actually be superior.

    It surprised me too.

    --

    _____

    Thank you.

    1. Re:Problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My apache installation was painless. I gotta go with user error in your case.

    2. Re:Problems by TheSunborn · · Score: 1

      Just use Apache 1.3 insted of 2.0 and it will stay up until you deside to take it down.

    3. Re:Problems by bigbadunix · · Score: 1

      Setting up a webserver, or any other system should ~not~ be trivial. Administrators and Systems Managers have their positions because they are well-versed in the platforms on which they work upon.

      Oh, wait. I just kind of re-read your troll, um, i mean post. I don't think I have to say any more. I'll get back to my 7th hour of the day keeping it up. Apache, that is.

      --

      The older I get, the less I like everyone else.
    4. Re:Problems by OppressiveGiant · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I guess I can see how you would come to this.

      I started using solely linux around 4 years ago. One of the first things I did was install apache and play around with that. I got it working with a little effort. After that I always built it from scratch. I eventually decided to try using apache out of the portage tree and it was set up as soon as I ran emerge and setup the configs in /etc/conf.d I've been using the gentoo build ever since then.

      Anyways I had to develop some webapp and my boss wanted me to do it in php on IIS. We had a hell of a time getting all of the authentication and settings, we couldn't quite get it all working. We had trouble with ssl and a few other things. so my co-worker and I dropped apache on it and got it working with SSL in about 10 minutes.

      I guess the short version of the story is: Hire MS sys admins for MS systems and here Linux sys admins for Linux systems. Rather than saying one is easier than the other, it might be better to say that one comes more naturally to a given user. And since I'm at a school with a bunch of nerds and almost all of the people I know prefer to run linux, there's a good chance that we can probably get something like apache setup more easily than IIS.

      --
      i could not think of anything clever.
    5. Re:Problems by ananke · · Score: 1

      I'm wondering where you got that '8 hours per day' maintenance idea. Seriously, do you adjust your configuration for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, year round, or what? What exactly requires your interaction with the system, once it's been set up? Occasional patching does not take 8 hours per day, every day. Ohh, and you do know that on unix you can remove a binary of a program that's running, put a new one in, and do a quick kill/start? Almost no downtime in that case, and there are tons of other ways to do it without any downtime whatsoever. Overall, I say troll.

      --
      --- d'oh
    6. Re:Problems by djh101010 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Ohh, and you do know that on unix you can remove a binary of a program that's running, put a new one in, and do a quick kill/start?

      Actually, for most of the configuration changes (short of an actual version upgrade or SSL cert change), you can do an 'apachectl graceful' and it applies your changes to the _new_ sessions, while letting the existing sessions close in the natural flow of the users' use of your site. Nice for minor tweaks on the fly during the day, with zero downtime.

    7. Re:Problems by CanadianCrackPot · · Score: 1

      WTF are you smoking, I certainly want to stay away from it. I've had my computer run apache for the webserver for years without having to change anything in the configurations (Mandrake default builds).

      --
      Good programmers drink beer to relieve job stress.
      Great programmers drink hard liquor and work best hungover.
    8. Re:Problems by ananke · · Score: 1

      Definitely, apachectl graceful is very useful. I was only talking about apache upgrades. By the way, if you add more ssl vhosts, you also have to do restart rather than graceful.

      --
      --- d'oh
    9. Re:Problems by thetoastman · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sigh, there are several ways to approach setting up an Apache server. All of them are easy.

      First one is to start with an empty configuration file and then cut and past in portions of the standard file until you get a minimally working server.

      The good part about this approach is that you get the least amount of bells and whistles added. Security via a small footprint is a good thing. The bad part about this approach is that you end up with a minimal server that may need more tweaking to get everything working as you need it.

      The second approach is to take the original configuration file and start chopping things out of it. Test each deletion to make sure that everything you need still works. Use something as simple as RCS to keep track of your changes.

      The good part about this approach is that you'll have a server until you break it. You will also have a nice record of every configuration change you've made. The bad part about this approach is that you may end up with a fatter server than you need. This violates a security maxim of making the least footprint on the net necessary to accomplish the task.

      The third way to configure Apache is from scratch. This is somewhat more complex than the other two, and can lead to unmaintainable configuration files.

      The bonuses for creating your own configuration file include understanding what goes on in the Apache configuration, and making a nice, modular configuration file. The bad part about this is that if you don't comment your file, you'll get an unmaintainable mess. Unfortunately some consultants think this is a good thing.

      As for chrooting Apache, it took me less than 15 seconds via Google to find a step by step procedure http://www.faqs.org/docs/securing/chap29sec254.htm l to chroot Apache on a Redhat Linux.

    10. Re:Problems by jc42 · · Score: 1

      Similar to the anecdotes that I like to tell. I've been on a number of projects where the official decree was to use web server Brand X (where X is any of the Usual Suspects). After some weeks of futzing around trying to get it working sanely, I'd decide that I'd had enough of it. So I'd set aside a half hour to grab the latest apache, compile it, config it, fire it up, and link all our stufff into its htdocs directory. This never took the full half hour, and invariably it worked like a charm, never crashed, never had breakins, etc.

      Part of the fun was always telling them every few weeks "Say, y'know, we're supposed to be using server X rather than apache. Maybe we should get working on it." And invariably, everyone else would say "Yeah, but we have a working server now; we have a deadline; we have a lot of stuff to finish off; let's put it off a while longer."

      Some of those were years ago and they're still using apache. The idea is starting to get through the thick management skulls that maybe there's something significant here.

      Of course, if they have any active content at all (especially SSL), I also like to warn them that apache's apparent security is an illusion. Maybe apache itself is solid, but it has no control over those modules that came from someone else. Any script at all could have a gaping vulnerability, and apache has no defense against that. Every piece of code they add to the apache core is a potential security hole.

      Sure wish I could get them appreciate that. And keep up with the apache patches.

      (And I've long known the etymology of the name "apache". Bad, bad pun. Well, as they say, the only good pun is a bad pun.)

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  16. Re:Lead-in [OT, sorta] by Barryke · · Score: 1

    but saying the least will always need less info.


    And won't waste people's time (like mine)
    who are going to react that your wasting people's time. Whoms reaction triggers more etc.

    Ohhhh the horror.

    the horror..

    --
    Hivemind harvest in progress..
  17. Stronghold by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

    Does anyone know whether StrongHold actually improves on Apache's security?

    --
    Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    1. Re:Stronghold by T-Ranger · · Score: 1
      Stronghold began as a commerial SSL-enabled version of Apache, when zero-cost SSL modules were non-existant and/or crappy. At some point RH bought out Stronghold-Inc. Im supprised that RedHat still supports Stronghold at all, frankly. It is unclear if the latest version is still a sepearate product, or comes with RHEL 3 only. Beh.

      Short answer, likely not.

  18. Fragmented Justification by gregarican · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The creators of Apache Server came up with the name due to it being based on a series of patches for httpd. "A Patchy Server." Get it? The name itself suggests its fragmented beginnings.

    1. Re:Fragmented Justification by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      Um... your point? What beginning project DIDN'T start out fragmented and crapped? Are you saying the first version of Windows was polished? Are you saying IIS was perfect from the start?

      Compare the final product... I think you'll see why Apache has and always will have the dominant market share.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    2. Re:Fragmented Justification by gregarican · · Score: 1

      Actually I can think of plenty of projects that haven't started out fragmented. Both open and closed source. Projects that aren't meant to be add-on fixes typically start out with some sort of focus. My reply was more of a tongue-in-cheek take and wasn't meant to be an IT directive. Geez, touchy, touchy...

    3. Re:Fragmented Justification by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      Sorry... in Microsoft FUD deflection mode

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    4. Re:Fragmented Justification by vurg · · Score: 2, Funny

      So Windows is an operating system that's easily broken into.

  19. Don't advertise version number by captaineo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I wish web servers wouldn't advertise their version number be default (e.g. in directory listings or HTTP headers). It's like giving an attacker an exact list of the exploits that will work on your server.

    1. Re:Don't advertise version number by jhill · · Score: 2, Informative

      You can turn this off when you compile apache, it's just a matter of editting a .h file, I believe, and putting in whatever you want. You could, for instance, create a "Joe Schmoe's webserver version 11000!" or something of that ilk.

      However, when it comes to exploits that deal with knowing version numbers, most of it is script kiddy stuff, so it's [ the script ] is going ot just run default exploit attempts against the webserver regardless of what is returned about the webserver.

    2. Re:Don't advertise version number by bigbadunix · · Score: 2, Informative
      ServerTokens Prod

      Might help a little bit. As I saw so eloquently stated somewhere...
      This would not stop skilled bad guys, but would slow down those kiddies playing around.
      Should this perhaps be the default? Maybe. But the bottom line is, you don't have the right to put a machine online without knowing about the details.
      --

      The older I get, the less I like everyone else.
    3. Re:Don't advertise version number by bogado · · Score: 1

      Security by obscurity will not take you anywhere. Why not simply maintaing the server up to date?

      --
      []'s Victor Bogado da Silva Lins

      ^[:wq

    4. Re:Don't advertise version number by dozer · · Score: 1
      This would not stop skilled bad guys, but would slow down those kiddies playing around.

      Not in the least. My logs show tons of IIS and ancient Apache exploit attempts. Kiddies just mindlessly launch every exploit they know against any server they can find and hope to get lucky.

    5. Re:Don't advertise version number by KjetilK · · Score: 2, Informative
      Actually it won't. Debian will keep an Apache version constant while fixing security related bugs, so it is not that simple.

      I've seen removing the version number being advocated by the Nessus folks, but I haven't done it.... It feels somewhat like security by obscurity....

      --
      Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
    6. Re:Don't advertise version number by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Security by obscurity is always played down, but the truth is security by obscurity does work, but you must never ever rely on it, make sure your systems are secure, and then don't tell the world how.

      Though sometimes, it's good to tell people what OS your running: 'Linux host 2.6.x-grsec' for example :)

    7. Re:Don't advertise version number by jrl · · Score: 1

      That may seem like a reasonable request, but you should know that exploits, especially automated exploits couldn't care less about what version of a service you're claiming to run. They don't even care that it's the right platform.

      The attacking system simply establishes a handshake, introduces the stimulus and waits for the response. If they get the desired response (shell, etc), great. If not, oh well, 1 down, 2^32-1 to go :).

      Now for the flip side:
      As an admin, if you knew you were not playing silly cat and mouse games with your banners, you'd be able to quickly determine which systems are still out of date.

      And now for something completely different:
      If you really want a secure user space application environment, you should build on a secure foundation. *BSD, UN*X (Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, etc), Linux, Windows, MacOSX, etc all employ a variation of Discretionary Access Control. DAC systems do not provide you the ability to actually enforce a security policy. Hardening an application on a DAC based foundation is akin to building a fortress on a foundation of sand.

      If you require the ability to enforce your security policies, you need to start out with a sane and audited hardware base, and add on to it an OS equipped with mechanisms that provide for granular Mandatory Role Based Access Controls. You may consider the SE Linux project a good place to start.

    8. Re:Don't advertise version number by aminorex · · Score: 1

      And what security isn't derived from obscurity?
      Unless your system is provably perfect, the only
      security you have is the obscurity of its defects.
      And no system is provably perfect, in reality --
      only under blocks-world assumptions.

      Yeah, I'd rather use a system which had correctness
      proofs within some domain of discourse than one
      that doesn't, but this 'security by obscurity'
      shibboleth gets my goat. Or is it dander up?

      --
      -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
    9. Re:Don't advertise version number by aminorex · · Score: 1

      That's just another form of security by obscurity:
      The exploits for the new version aren't known yet
      -- at least not to you -- the real pros have vast
      catalogues of exploits that have never been
      disclosed yet.

      --
      -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
    10. Re:Don't advertise version number by KjetilK · · Score: 1

      Hm, well, you're taking it a bit too literally. The "security through obscurity" saying refers to attempting to obscure defects you are aware of, instead of fixing them. That certainly doesn't do a lot of good. In the real world, the best you can do is to work to find defects before the bad guys do and fix them.

      --
      Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
  20. Re:Complexity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Complex? I can get apache up and running from source in 10 minutes.

  21. Re:Complexity by JoshMooney · · Score: 1

    You could always pick up something like PHP Triad, which installs Apache, PHP, mySQL, etc ...
    php Triad ... I use it, and it works rather well just as a server to try on a home network

  22. Great. Another Book of The Arcane. by Thalia · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There is a fundamental flaw with security hardening being in a separate book, sold by advertising and word of mouth, read separately and in a different medium than installation documentation, updated asynchronously, and expected to work. Would you accept a word processor with a separate book on "Master's Secrets on Keeping Your Word Processor From Crashing"?

    With any luck, many hardening techniques will migrate towards the Apache installation process, or at least the Apache documentation.

  23. Re:Interesting by bigbadunix · · Score: 4, Insightful



    Don't let not knowing about security hold you back from hosting your own site. Experiment, learn, have fun. Put an apache box up on a DMZ, put stupid content on it, see what happens. Look at your logs, see what's going on, learn from any mistakes you make along the way.

    If you're in this industry, and are afraid to be the "fall guy" who has do deal with the inevitable attacks, or the "fall guy" in general, you'd better fasten your seat belt...you're in for a bumpy ride.

    He who makes no mistakes makes nothing at all

    --

    The older I get, the less I like everyone else.
  24. Re:Lead-in [OT, sorta] by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If time has been wasted, then that which was tried was done.

  25. just put an IIS server in front of it by seringen · · Score: 5, Funny

    you're apache install will stay safe because they'll be too distracted

  26. WARNING--RUSH LYRIC IN SIG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just to let you know.

  27. Re:Lead-in [OT, sorta] by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 1

    The least said, the better.

    --
    It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
  28. Hardening apache? by DrMrLordX · · Score: 3, Funny

    Simple. Dip it in tree resin and let it fossilize. It should harden into amber in . . . oh, a few million years or so. Don't be impatient, though, or all you'll get is copal.

  29. logging by MasTRE · · Score: 2, Informative

    For non-database logging, use mod_log_spread. This also solves the problem of merging logs if you happen to run a web farm.

    --
    Must-not-watch TV!
  30. Re:Lead-in [OT, sorta] by the+chao+goes+mu · · Score: 1
    Whoms?

    Very briefly:

    Who is nominative

    Whom is accusative

    Whose is genative/possessive

    Whoms (should probably be whom's, if it were a real word) does not exist

    I know I'll get flamed for being a grammar nazi, but whoms is such a very, very bad neologism...

    --
    Boys from the City. Not yet caught by the Whirlwind of Progress. Feed soda pop to the thirsty pigs.
  31. Thanks for posting. I could will look for it... by CFD339 · · Score: 1

    I do most of my work on a Domino server (say what you will, but its very secure and stable and I build customer apps really inexpensively) but Apache based servers (and they are myriad) keep intruding into my happy little world.

    A year ago I wanted to put one public but found information on hardening it extremely limited -- or perhaps extremely disconnected.

    If the book is indeed concise, it will be useful.

    --
    The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
  32. thats not been my experience by Indy1 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I designed the backend of www.babiesfirstchoice.com and we used apache 2. Its been hugely stable for us (the downtime we've seen was not due to apache problems) and lets us do everything we need to do on it. An IIS box would of cost thousands more due to licensing and the extra hardware needed to push M$ solutions (BFC currently runs on a athlon 1700xp with 512 megs of ddr and a basic ide hard drive, nothing fancy).

    --
    Lawyers, MBA's, RIAA? A jedi fears not these things!
    1. Re:thats not been my experience by The_Terminalator · · Score: 1
      http://www.babiesfirstchoice.com/favicon.ico?mv_se ssion_id=CpJn8oxz&mv_pc=36&mv_nextpage=favicon%2ei co

      \"Sorry, the page (favicon.ico) was not found

      The requested page (favicon.ico) was not found. You can return to browsing our catalog, if you wish"


      Dude, this is why I never link back to my work on slashrot.

      I got this error 2 clicks in when I clicked on 'buy list' on http://www.babiesfirstchoice.com/baby_furniture.ht ml?id=CpJn8oxz.

      I don't mean to flame you, but you might want to take a look at that.

      If you were just trying to get some free QA, I tip my hat in your general direction.

      Good day sir!
  33. Hint by Sediyama · · Score: 0

    Use:
    RewriteEngine on
    RewriteCond %{REQUEST_METHOD} ^(TRACE|TRACK)
    RewriteRule .* - [F]

    To avoid Cross-Site-Tracing http://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/867593/

  34. it's specific to OpenBSD by ChipMonk · · Score: 2, Informative

    Or at least a good chunk of it is. Some of the patch is necessary just to take into account how OpenBSD handles various calls.

    1. Re:it's specific to OpenBSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      wget the apache tarball from apache's website. Run the make on it under openbsd. It compiles but without the security niceties, chroot for one.

  35. Apache... Chief? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let me be the first to say...
    Inuk-chuk! -Skadus

  36. nice troll by wobblie · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Only an idiot couldn't figure out apache, and if you can't, you shouldn't be running web server at all. Exhibit A being your "more secure" IIS, which is full of more holes than swiss cheese.

    1. Re:nice troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Exhibit A being your "more secure" IIS, which is full of more holes than swiss cheese. "

      Not if you take the time to secure it.

      Owned!

  37. Are we talking about the same Apache webserver? by djh101010 · · Score: 3, Informative

    There seemed to be little in the way of practical material that gave specific and step-by-step instructions for installing and running Apache on Linux.

    Maybe you missed the "documentation" section at the apache.org website? Or, do a google search for "linux apache howto". Tons of good stuff out there.

    Apache on Linux requires you to spend 8 hours per day just to keep it up and running,

    On what planet is this true? There's about 4 things to change from one webserver to another; you build one config file for your environment, and for the next one modify the listen, the user if you want, the document_root, and maybe servlet mapping if you're using that. Trivial and one-time.

    and while its performance and security is fine if you have the time and staff for it, there is no way to just set it up and let it sit while installing patches when needed.

    Our experience differs profoundly. Perhaps someone like you needs to hire someone like me to help you get set up. It's a trivial setup, configuration is well documented, and once it's up and running a webserver doesn't need any attention whatsoever until the next version comes out or you decide you want to change what it does. Arguing against Apache on actual factual grounds would be one thing, but "it's hard to set up and lots of work to keep running" is demonstrably false.

    1. Re:Are we talking about the same Apache webserver? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Apache on Linux requires you to spend 8 hours per day just to keep it up and running."

      This is Steve. Keep up the Slashdot astroturfing! You're doing a good job. I'll mention your name to Bill to get you an extra 0.06% raise this year.

    2. Re:Are we talking about the same Apache webserver? by djh101010 · · Score: 1

      I assume your response is to the guy I'm answering, rather than to me? By replying to my post rather than his, it makes it unclear.

  38. Re:Interesting by ctr2sprt · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Basic security is not difficult. If you know the rule of "If you don't need it, turn it off," you know everything you need to about basic security. Hackers, like just about all criminals, go for the path of least resistance. If you take basic precautions, you'll defend yourself against everyone who isn't out to get you personally.

    In short, find a hosting company with a lot of Windows servers nearby IP-wise. This is, sadly, not a troll or flamebait, it's my experience. Apache is not what you have to worry about, it's scripts you run. Every single non-targeted exploit of a Unix machine I've seen (that is, compromises that don't target a particular site or person) has been the result of a buggy script. And usually a script that's installed on a ton of systems, so the hackers can compromise many machines with the same attack. Most of them are looking for warez dump sites or launching points for DDoSes. It's not worth their time to target individuals.

  39. hosting my own site... win32 or linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Start here...
    http://www.devside.net

  40. thttpd by cpghost · · Score: 1

    Apache is extremely complicated and therefore a potentail rats nest of potential security holes. Please don't get me wrong here: I like Apache very much for its great flexibility, yet I helped a lot of security aware companies to migrate to thttpd because they wanted a code base that could be scrutinized in a reasonable amount of time. Most web apps really don't need the flexibility of Apache anyway, and those who do, will have to be run in secure environments like, say, jails or other virtualized environments.

    --
    cpghost at Cordula's Web.
  41. logging to mysql by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Only a person who never run a large production web site would consider logging to mysql. At 50 mil hits per month it gets pretty much unusable, even on a blazingly fast hardware.

  42. it should be secure out of the box by jeif1k · · Score: 1
    The following should be secure even for the most inexperienced user:
    • Installing Apache
    • Installing PHP
    • Serving HTML files from the default Apache tree and/or ~/public_html
    • Writing and serving PHP scripts that access the file system and databases with default permissions

    If Apache and PHP can't fulfill those operations securely out of the box, then there is something wrong with either the design or implementation of Apache and PHP, not the experience level of the user.

    In different words, the default should be secure, and users should have to go through extra steps to make it not secure.

    1. Re:it should be secure out of the box by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are just plain fucking nuts if you expect an "install" of either of these should be automaticly secure. Given the incredable range of config option for both of them there is just no way you can't be certain some idiot will create a combination someone had not thought about.

      Your blanket statement, "then there is something wrong with either the design or implementation of Apache and PHP, not the experience level of the user." Is just showing how little you understand about the fantastic complexity of the software involed. ESP when you bring an PHP install into the picture!

      THERE IS NO BOX!!!!

    2. Re:it should be secure out of the box by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PHP, of course, is poorly designed and a ginormous security risk. But Apache by itself is not.

    3. Re:it should be secure out of the box by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your blanket statement, "then there is something wrong with either the design or implementation of Apache and PHP, not the experience level of the user." Is just showing how little you understand about the fantastic complexity of the software involed.

      You are quite right: Apache is fantastically complex, and that it one of its design flaws. There is no reason why something whose purpose is to spit out a few kb of text in response to getting a network connection should be as complex as Apache is.

      THERE IS NO BOX!!!!

      There is a default installation, and at least that should be secure.

      Given the incredable range of config option for both of them there is just no way you can't be certain some idiot will create a combination someone had not thought about.

      Well, golly gee, then it's not a default installation ("out of the box") anymore.

      And, yes, the fact that Apache and PHP allow such a huge combination of config options with unpredictable effects on security is a problem and a sign of poor (or rather, completely outdated) design.

      You are just plain fucking nuts if you expect an "install" of either of these should be automaticly secure.

      You are fucking stupid because you are willing to live with shitty software that requires an expert to make "secure". The consequence of that sort of design is that Apache will get the same reputation for lack of security as Microsoft, and for the same reason.

    4. Re:it should be secure out of the box by acidtripp101 · · Score: 1

      You are fucking stupid because you are willing to live with shitty software that requires an expert to make "secure". The consequence of that sort of design is that Apache will get the same reputation for lack of security as Microsoft, and for the same reason.

      Dude! Shut the fuck up! I need to get a job when I'm out of college... if apache is 'secure by default' then what is stopping the janitor at my old high school from becoming an admin!
      The more mysterious we keep the silicon, the more I get paid!

      (It's only kind of a joke... so laugh half-heartedly)

      --
      Not Free(as in beer). Free(as in "I'm free to beat you over the head for being a dumbass")
  43. ServerTokens Min by Skiron · · Score: 1

    The directive is [global] ServerTokens Min

    It's all in the docs.

  44. Re:Interesting by saudadelinux · · Score: 1

    Heh. I plan to serve my own site to gain the experience of log-reading, config-file twitching, and all that; I want to break into the Web field, and see this as a good opportunity to learn about webserver/OS hardening by fire, as well as being just plain fun :)

    I'll also ask a buddy of mine who's a security consultant to attack the server. Better to have a friend attack and tell me my mistakes than some pimply-faced kid 0wneR my machine.

    --
    I didn't think the house band in Hell would play this badly.
  45. Re:Interesting by tonymercmobily · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wrote the book, so my input is biased...
    I think the book would be great for you. If you do buy it, let me know what you think of it!

    Merc.
    (The book's author)

  46. OhioLinux & hardening apache by KingPunk · · Score: 1

    ohiolinux.org is having a speaker about hardening apache & apache2. and it looks as though its going to be a good feature packed lineup of oss speakers. hardening apache isn't exactly an easy task.. just don't think that you're going to be totally "secure." when you drop your defenses, you're at your weakest point. apache is a great server. and they have dominant market share. who says ms will win? 1 down, 100000 to go :)

  47. If possible, use a different httpd by Dr.+Manhattan · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Apache is nice, and Apache is popular, but the simple fact that it's popular means that it attracts attention. If you don't need a module that's specifically for Apache, you can use a different webserver package (take a look at Freshmeat, there's a bunch) and you gain some security through obscurity.

    Now, you still have to learn how to set up that package right, and keep up on updates, but diversity is a nice thing. Even if you just move some files (e.g. static content like images) off onto a side server, there's less to secure on the Apache box, so it's usually simpler.

    --
    PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
  48. Re:Complexity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    phpTriad is crap [IMHO]...

    Try the DeveloperSide.NET Web-Server Suite.
    http://www.devside.net/

  49. Wait a second! FUD Alert! by jaaron · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That whole thread on "no more apache updates" had nothing to do with security. It had everything to do with the OpenBSD team deciding not to keep using Apache HTTPD because of the new ASL 2.0 license. Personally I think the OpenBSD team is completely wrong on this issue and their attitude is incredibly offensive. Moreover, if you read the whole thread you'd find this response that the apache group has been responsive to the patches but that many of them are BSD specific and that's why they were not put into the main source tree.

    --
    Who said Freedom was Fair?
  50. Apache's httpd.conf from scratch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.devside.net/

    Under the "Building a Web-Server" section

  51. Lack of security between users/virtual hosts by Cronq · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There is one thing that makes apache very unsecure. Suppose that you have few users each having it's own virtual host. Apache is running from exactly the same UID/GID for each virtual host! There is no way in pure apache to prevent user A from looking into user B vhost files (containing for example php scripts, password to sql databases etc).

    You would need to run multiple apaches running from different UIDs for each user :/

    That's bad. suexec it's not a option - it doesn't work with mod_python and other apache modules.

    perchild MPM module that should do it doesn't work and apache developers are not interested in fixing that. No idea why.

    metuxmpm MPM module was written instead perchild by external developers but it also doesn't work well unfortunately (for me it doesn't work at all).

    1. Re:Lack of security between users/virtual hosts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are a few interesting ideas described over here. Its not trivial, but still doable.

      http://theory.uwinnipeg.ca/modperl/docs/general/ mu ltiuser/multiuser.html

  52. Re:Lead-in [OT, sorta] by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And won't waste people's time (like mine)
    who are going to react that your wasting people's time. Whoms reaction triggers more etc.


    Allow me to appologize in advance if English is not your first language. If it IS, then shame on you. "The horror" indeed.

  53. Yes , I would. by Number_5 · · Score: 1

    I would even accept an OS on those terms. There is a huge market for books telling users stuff that is not in the manuals. O'Reilly's whole business model is augmenting system documentation as was SSC's (Linux Journal Publisher). That having been said, I don't disagree with your basic premise.

  54. Re:Wait a second! FUD Alert! by Triumph+The+Insult+C · · Score: 0, Troll

    their attitude is incredibly offensive? why? because they want to keep their source tree free of unfree software? here is the beauty of free software ... you don't have to use it. if you wish to use the unfree, insecure, asf apache, go for it! when your shit gets r00ted through something fixed in those diffs, go bitch to the asf. meanwhile, i will have a good chuckle

    guess what? that's why we have openssh. it's why openntpd has come into existence. pf, bgpd, and others

    oh .. please do explain the continued 3k+ diff between the asf and obsd version

    --
    vodka, straight up, thank you!
  55. NIce Defcon Presentation by Cave+Crickett · · Score: 2, Informative

    http://www.bastille-linux.org/jay/Talks/slides-def con-securing-apache.pdf This helped me with a few extra ideas.

  56. So why not do things differently? by snStarter · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Gee - you get this massive file to edit to get Apache up and running which is fine for some of geeky land (like the slash-dot crowd) but it creates a hurdle for your basic person who wants to have a running web site.

    So why not create a smart program to generate the config file either as a script or as a GUI application that will have enough smarts to get your normal site up and running but with the possible security holes turned OFF and massive warnings written into the file so that when someone goes to edit it they have some clue provided.

    Same for PHP.

    Oh sure - it's soooo kewl to just edit the text file - and for the clued-in that's great. But something which can make a new safe file for you, AND check an existing file - seems like that's just smart.

    Otherwise it's safety through obscurity - or insecurity through obscurity and neither of those make sense.

    1. Re:So why not do things differently? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you can't be bothered to edit a simple textfile, go use something else.

    2. Re:So why not do things differently? by snStarter · · Score: 1

      That, of course, isn't the point. The point being that if a program can provide the smarts to create the file, or check the file, for security then it might be a more secure way to do things. It's a dealing with complexity issue.

    3. Re:So why not do things differently? by cranos · · Score: 2, Informative

      Hows about you try something like Webmin great way to manage most aspects of your system.

    4. Re:So why not do things differently? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, you can run Apache and PHP that way. Apache comes with a default configuration file, and if you leave it alone, your site should work (though the geeks that care about security should change it). Also, you can run PHP without a php.ini at all; it'll just use the defaults, if you're comfortable with that.

  57. Puchasing Hardening Apache by linx4prs · · Score: 1

    "...You can purchase Hardening Apache from bn.com." Or, you can purchase it for $10 less from amazon.com

  58. Sorry by Safety+Cap · · Score: 1

    YHBT. YHL. HAND.

    --
    Yeah, right.
  59. Please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    dON'T Feed ThE tROLls

  60. The best way to harden IIS by Macka · · Score: 1


    Ctrl-Alt-Del ;-)

  61. NO IT'S NOT by SoTuA · · Score: 1
    It's "who's come to slay the dragon".

    What, me Rush fan?

    Whaddayamean "who cares"?

  62. Re:Interesting by rainman_bc · · Score: 1

    Roflmao I did that once -> used apache as a reverse proxy. I love the simplicity of it, and the increased security. You can block a tonne of attacks using mod_security, and keep them from hitting your real web server.

    Thing is, I forgot to lock down the allowable hosts.

    Soon, I was seeing scripting engines requesting ads from various web servers in my logs. Took over a year for those scripts to stop.

    Didn't take long for me to find it, but once you're on an open proxy list.... You're screwed.

    --
    09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
  63. Re:I wonder... by theendlessnow · · Score: 1

    You know... a recent study at MIT (I think) together with Simon and Garfunkel is showing that there's no difference between hardened and unhardened Apache.

  64. broken downloads by calculadoru · · Score: 1

    This might be slightly off topic, but I have a question for all you Apache boys. I get this weird error from my Apache/2.0.48 (Win32) Server: it installs fine, I set it up properly, I set the passwords and the users, I test it, everything works fine, people can access and download stuff, then a few months later they start getting broken downloads. Meaning that, if they try to snag a 4.8 MB mp3 for instance, they end up being able to download only about 300 KB (the beginning of the file/song) after which it abruptly ends. Although the file clearly says 4.8 MB on the web page, Apache only lets you download some 3-400 KB. I have no idea what causes it (registry rot doesn't seem to be it) and the only way to fix it is to reinstall Apache - ten minutes later all is good again.
    Any ideas, anyone?

    --
    The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. -- G.B. Shaw
    1. Re:broken downloads by tobozo · · Score: 1

      Sounds like your windows is behaving normally, making all your executables biodegradable, and having you aware it needs some baby sitting to keep going ;-)

    2. Re:broken downloads by calculadoru · · Score: 1

      oh, so THAT was it. well then, I am feeling so much better now.

      --
      The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. -- G.B. Shaw
    3. Re:broken downloads by TheSunborn · · Score: 1

      Have you looked in the apache/logs/error_log ?

  65. Re:Complexity by JoshMooney · · Score: 1

    There are others out there as well which do the same thing. I've never tried that one, but I'll dl it in a while. There is a list here and also here of others which aid in installing Apache, PHP, mySQL, Perl, etc (some also install tools such as phpMyAdmin, a bulletin board service and others go as far to include a mail service and FTP servers). I don't believe that the DeveloperSide.NET suite is listed there, but it looks like a good application as well.

  66. Some one fire this person. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ?tagged?by?(name or marks) Normally means hacked the ?is \ on windows and Unix/Linux is /. Basicly someone is breaking in. Yep the person has also found how to by off the admin fill the directory with Wares so they can show off to there friends that they have you server.

    The problem is that your machine could be used in a dos attack if you allow scripting. Even if you don't and they have access to the config system.

    Now here is the really bad news. It could be a complete reistall because if this has been happening over time there could be alot of added backdoors. Note virus scanners don't help. Even backdoor scanners don't help against some verry custom stuff.

    Basicly Tagged by is internet graffiti of hackers who are nice normally they live in countrys where they have to provide a standard tag and somewhere in that directory of Warz should be a file of how they got into your system(plain .txt or no extention but it will be plain txt).

    I have setup to complet scan my system against the install disk and updates on my linux and my startup config is backup as well as my website stuff. So a complete scan and reset of files follow by a reinstall of configs and reinstall of web data followed by all required upates. Removeal of all config files from all home directory and removeal of all non directorys with a X bit in the home directory. Then care with email just incase the hacker is really cunning.

    Normally complet in under 30 mins compated to 60 mins plus hours with windows. Also a complete list what had been changed so I can build a detection to that system.

    Users get upset that there default as gone but hacker booted is worth it.

    1. Re:Some one fire this person. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um. Please tell me you know he was kidding.

  67. Those results are skewed because of Akamai by LoadWB · · Score: 1

    > nslookup autoupdate.microsoft.com

    Non-authoritative answer:
    Name: a1076.g.akamai.net
    Addresses: 199.44.34.70, 199.44.34.68
    Aliases: autoupdate.microsoft.com, codecs.microsoft.com
    codecs.windowsmedia.com.akadns.net, codecs.windowsmedia.com.edgesuite.net

    MS uses Akamai for distribution, Akamai runs Linux. Side note, thank $_DEITY that MS does not use Connexion any more. Holy dog crap they were SLOW!

    1. Re:Those results are skewed because of Akamai by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      Yes. LOAD distribution. Notice they don't rely on Windiows servers for that. Why not Windows Servers? Because they can't handle the load. Same thing with DDOS attacks and the like... they keep falling back onto Linux. :)

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    2. Re:Those results are skewed because of Akamai by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Why not Windows Servers? Because they can't handle the load.

      Can you provide some facts to back up this assertion?

    3. Re:Those results are skewed because of Akamai by ElvenMonkey · · Score: 1

      MS used/use Akamai to reduce the impact of any attempted DDOSs. I'm sure you can imagine how many people are regularly trying to attack MS. MS's own servers are all running IIS, which is hardly surprising, its merely their outsourced caching that use Apache, and MS won't have much control over what their outsourcers choose to do. If MS started throwing its weight around when trying to get caching services I'm sure doors would just slam in their faces, rather than co-operate. Regarding the 'duck and cover' comments, I'd imagine that they were emergency provisions MS put into place when they realised just what was about to occur, or what was occuring (massive virus caused DDOS.) When you're in a hurry you're not about to say "We'll only use you if you're running IIS", they'd just want the service there ASAPNetcraft's own explanation

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    4. Re:Those results are skewed because of Akamai by ElvenMonkey · · Score: 1

      Damnit... preview preview preview... Netcrafts own explanation You can see some details of the akamai servers here

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      "Joy is not in things; it is in us." Richard Wagner
    5. Re:Those results are skewed because of Akamai by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      Actually, Microsoft has the money to EASILY handle this themselves. But their OS can't handle it. So what does Microsoft do? Spend money on a bunch of Linux machines themselves (which would REALLY look bad) or pay an outside company to do it? Ding ding! You guessed right!

      The fact remains that Microsoft could NOT do this with their own OS. If they could, they would have by now.

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    6. Re:Those results are skewed because of Akamai by LoadWB · · Score: 1

      Horseshit, troll. Plenty of other sites use Akamai for CONTENT distribution to save bandwidth at their main sites. Have a look at Akamai's customer list sometime, especially take note of Yahoo!, which runs on some form of Unix.

    7. Re:Those results are skewed because of Akamai by ElvenMonkey · · Score: 1

      The fact remains that Microsoft could NOT do this with their own OS. If they could, they would have by now.

      That is, even by /. standards a rather specious anti-MS argument. Just because you can afford to do something doesn't mean you necessrily should, nor does it mean it makes economical sense. Why would Microsoft want to fork out money on a whole series of servers (and associated maintenance / upgrade costs), based in several different geographical locations, pay for employment and training costs of getting staff in to maintain a system, when its an awful lot cheaper just to buy in an external solution, which can be made available near instantaneously. Odds are that anything MS put together would see barely more than 15% load for the most part, except for during DDOS's. Having a server farm 85% idle, just in case, is a big waste of money.

      Just because they can afford to do it doesn't mean they should. Thats basic economics.

      --
      "Joy is not in things; it is in us." Richard Wagner
    8. Re:Those results are skewed because of Akamai by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      Well considering how last time this happened and it was in all the papers saying that Microsoft was running Linux, they tend not to like that sort of thing... I should know, I'm a webdeveloper for a vendor for Microsoft whose offices are right across the street from them in Redmond.

      They switched all their hotmail servers off Linux, they switched all others istes off BSD. They want everything Microsoft running on Microsoft products; it's their motto: eat your own dogfood.

      So why is their load distribution being handled by Linux systems? Wouldn't they want to eat their own dogfood? They are doing webhosting now and they don't use Linux, Apache, PHP or mysql... so why allow this?

      There is only ONE answer. They can't compete. Having a server farm is ideal for lots of projects. Distributed computing, R and D, render farm, etc. Microsoft already has server farms over there... so what's one more?

      Face facts, their software is a system hog with too many openings and opportunities for failure. They aren't doing it because they can't do it.

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    9. Re:Those results are skewed because of Akamai by WhatAmIDoingHere · · Score: 1

      If you weren't so obsessed with being right, you'd notice that you're dead wrong.

      They don't get to pick which OS the company they hired to host their sites uses. If they tried to FORCE them to use a microsoft product, they would get doors slammed in their faces.

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    10. Re:Those results are skewed because of Akamai by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      Your logic (if that's what you call it) can be applied to yourself in the wrong dept.

      Microsoft researchs it's companies well, especially companies that supply it with tech services. The company that they are reselling web hosting through uses only Windows and IIS; it's PART OF THEIR CONTRACT! A contract is a piece of paper that is legally binding in a court of law. You still with me?

      They do this with ALL vendors who supply Microsoft with technical services.... ALL VENDORS! Lots of people are willing to supply them with services only on their OS and using only their tools. Microsoft as a client can be a big boost top your company.

      So why this one exception? Microsoft is very insistent on eating their own dogfood. You said they don't want a server farm but they have several already and it could easily find use when not being DOS'ed. They could easily do this themselves, they could hire someone else to do this. But they allow it.

      Face facts. They can't do it or else they would. If they could hire someone to do this with MS products, they would do that in a split second. But they can't because their product can't.

      Give it up already and get back to work Bill.

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    11. Re:Those results are skewed because of Akamai by WhatAmIDoingHere · · Score: 1

      You need to realize something: Microsoft is a company. Companies do things to make money.

      They picked this media hosting service because of their record.

      If Microsoft asked them to change how they did their hosting, the hosting company would have to purchase new hardware and software. They would have to hire or train people on how to use it.

      This would take too much time.

      Microsoft went with them because they needed a QUICK solution to a fast approaching problem.

      Jesus Hell, man. You need to stop being such a goddamned asshat and just accept that your opinion doesn't mean jack FUCK to a multi-billion dollar corporation.

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    12. Re:Those results are skewed because of Akamai by ElvenMonkey · · Score: 1

      I'd stop wasting your time if I were you. He's a died in the wool Slashdot educated MS hater. (for the record, I don't like MS) There can be no circumstances underwhich MS can possibly be defended, they should all burn and die a horrible death, along with anyone that happens to even remotely defend them etc.. etc.. etc..

      --
      "Joy is not in things; it is in us." Richard Wagner
    13. Re:Those results are skewed because of Akamai by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      I see evolution has left you behind. How sad. When you learn what your brain is for, you may realize that Microsoft is about making money... EVENTUALLY!X-box, Microsoft games, CRM, they are all in the red still. Oh you thought red ink was for profits? Come down from the tree sometime monkeyboy, I have a few trciks to show you.

      As for it taking too much time, wouldn't creating a new gaming platform take too much time, wouldn't cvreating web TV take too much time? I can go on and on about how your logic fails and yet those neurons of yours still wouldn't fire. Truly amazing.

      The fact still remains...

      a) Microsoft wants to eat it's own dogfood.
      b) Microsoft has the ability to eat it's own dogfood
      c) Cost would not prevent them from eating their dogfood
      d) Lack of profit would not prevent them from eating their own dogfood
      e) Their dogfood tastes like shit

      So simple even a grub eating, flea picking, knuckle jockey like yourself should be able to figure out... in time. I don't expect miracles after all :)

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    14. Re:Those results are skewed because of Akamai by SirTalon42 · · Score: 1

      Please don't use 'Monkey Boy' as an insult! It is a very good word.

  68. Re:Umm. yeah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    yeah i read that thread too on the ml. but you failed to mention that the current version of apache 1.3.29(?) will be the last and final version for obsd. due to their licence change for the next release(?) I should follow up on the thread. i seem to remember the usual small pissing contest exhibited by certin people.

  69. Re:Wait a second! FUD Alert! by Bert64 · · Score: 1

    Interestingly tho, openssh has had more security advisories than the original ssh

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  70. Well, this should be an option. by Roadkills-R-Us · · Score: 1

    Sure, make it the default option, but I think something like RedHat's firewall options at installation (none, medium, high, setting iptables config) is even better. Apache gets run on intranets as well, and in some cases, full security is exactly the wrong thing.

    This is easy enough to do; you ship several versions of the config file, and copy the one corresponding to the requested security level to the default filename. Include docs on using the others.

  71. No no by commodoresloat · · Score: 1

    How many of you so called admins do this:

    %su
    #httpd start

    when we all know it should be

    %su
    #cd /
    #rm rf *

  72. Re:Lead-in [OT, sorta] by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thank you. It is my 3th language actualy.. ;)

  73. Re:Lead-in [OT, sorta] by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the horror..

  74. Gentoo by eatjello · · Score: 1

    It could be better (chroot), but the conf files are clean and easy to work with. Also, it's nice to be able to get up to date by simply typing 'emerge sync && emerge apache'.

  75. Akamai partnerships. by mgcarley · · Score: 1

    Having recently left a fairly major ISP in my country, I feel obligated to correct both the Microsoft bashers and the Microsoft sympathizers on some of the key points.

    The thing is this:
    Microsoft Servers are Win2k3/IIS (for the most part. There may be some left on Win2k).

    In part it has to do with bandwidth distribution, particularly when dealing with international downloads.

    What happens when a million users (conservative estimate) go to download a 170MB file, such as Service Pack 2 (redist) all at once? Rather than having their server farm saturated with a million users, they use Akamai caching servers to distribute the files. Lets say they have an OC48 - 2.4GBPS which IIRC costs like $100k/month for a half decent one (conservative estimate for that kind of server farm, but you get my point). At a million users, you would be averaging about 2.4kbps. Not good. 56k users wouldn't notice, but us broadband users definately would.

    So, what happens is, major ISPs whom happen to have partnerships with Akamai to distribute content, have these caching servers in their data centers all around the world.

    What happens is effectively this: a client goes 'Hey! windowsupdate. microsoft.com! I need microsofthugeservicepack.exe', and since MS has a partnership with Akamai, the server passes it on like 'Wait a second... I've got a file here, but since your hostname is 202.202.202.202. newzealandisp.co.nz, you would be way better off getting it from nz01.windowsupdate.cache.akamai.net, cause that will save a shitload of international bandwidth'

    So, in fact, it's not a "Microsoft Servers can't handle the load" scenario, it's more like "Using Akamai saves us a buttload of money and has a far better distribution network in place, so why don't we pay them like $100,000 a month, rather than building and maintaining one ourselves, which, despite being very cool, would be pretty much pointless and not as cost effective"...

    Think -
    1: Use Akamai bandwidth (like a transparent mirror, whose little yellow boxes just happen to run Linux or sometimes Solaris or BSD) for like $100,000 a month (guess), reach like 150 countries and 1-5 major ISPs in each country depending on it's size OR

    2: Use your own for like $100,000 (guess) a month, have it go really slow at peak times, or even

    3: Build own distribution network, for like $1,000,000 up front (say, 1000 servers @ $1,000 each, plus bandwidth costs from US, plus bandwidth costs for each country that has a mirror which could probably easily be $1,000 a month (conservative) in each country meaning ~$150,000 a month over all)

    I mean, come on. They "duck and cover" behind Akamai for the very reason that when you, their user, is trying to download something off of their website/ftp server/auto update server, you want it to come through as quickly as possible. Microsoft, being the multi-billion-dollar corp that it is, is expected to deliver. You should be able to download that Service pack at 150KBps, so they utilize the aggregate bandwidth available from (in this case akamai) to deliver.

    Just like when you go to major websites such as CNN, AOL, Google (et al ad infinitum), they too all use Akamai. The OS that the host machine itself runs is thus irrelavent. Netcraft basically does a fingerprint, and if their finger gets relegated off to an Akamai box, it could be because its a high traffic period, or, the Windows Server simply delegates finger probes (I know that sounds bad, but you know what I mean) to the Akamai box to perhaps give some sort of false impression.

    You Linux Zealots should know better! I'll use Redhat as an example, here (though most other distros distribute their ISO images in a similar manner)

    I know if I try to, for example, download the ISO or even any updates, off of say, the Ukranian Mirror for RH, it's not going to go as fast as if I downloaded off one of the New Zealand or Australian Mirrors. The only real difference here (in terms of who is using who) is that: Mirrors for L

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    Founder & COO, Hayai India (hayai.in) / USA (hayaibroadband.com) // t: @mgcarley