When are you idiots going to learn that MHz is not a measure of performance? ITs a measure of clock rate-- and often its not even the CPUs actual clock rate!
Divx, or whatever flakey varient of it you claim to be encoding to is not MPEG-4 video.
Anyway, the fact of the matter is Macs are cheaper than PCs for comperable performance.
The reason you guys refuse to see it is you're PC zeolots and you liek to twist numbers.
But eventually people will realize that MHz is not the same as speed.
Oh, but thanks for posting yet another bogus comparison using old pricing (please, al least use the current apple pricing.)
Every time I compare, and I do every year or so, you get faster hardware for less money from Apple.
And that's not even including the fact that Macs last longer than PCs-- I've yet ot see a PC (in all the jobs I worked at) last more than 2 years--- usually they die when teh warranty runs out-- and theres a correspondence between how cheap they are and when they die.
Sube $1K PCs last a year or less, as the powersupplies have to be pathetically cheap.
You get what you pay for, and some peopel would rather pay every three months to keep their PC running, than buy a machine once (for less initial money!) and keep it for 6 years.
Actually, I didn't miss the point... you were making an absurd point, and I gave you the benefit of the doubt.
Since you are claiming that you can get Celeron machines for $20 each, you must be buying just the CPUs and spending no moeny on anything else.
Comparing a custom built massively parallel computer ON A PRICE BASIS to off the shelf machines designed for the desktop is just STOOPID.
Now, if you want to talk about a custom built massively parrallel machine based on the G5 verses the Celeron , then go ahead and get IBMS CPU pricing,.... just don't use Apple sretail desktop pricing and compare it to this mythical Celeron system without hard drives or network cards, etc. etc.
Actually, the custom engineering to put 1,500 Celeron CPUs together (since they don't support SMP, and certainly not on that scale, and you can't go out and buy 1500 CPU motherboards) alone would run you more than $30k.
Go try to price a dual Xeon system to compare to the Dual G5 systems from a company like Dell. You can pay a thousand bucks more for a slower system from Dell, but I don't see why you would want to!
Not flaming you at all, just pointing this out as the myth that apples computers are expensive is really old and really annoying. They aren't.
Apple doesn't sell the bottom of the line machines for $500, for which you'd be better off getting an XBOX anyway, but in tehir price ranges they have much higher performance than the competition.
Thus, Linux on Mac is no problem-- Apple's even putting Linux APIs (I don't know which) into Panther to make porting easier.
Only on slashdot do I get moderated "Troll" for talking abou the technical sutff (hypertransport, the 1Ghz front side buss, etc)
But an guy who can only call me names and expresses his ignorance of MPEG4 (MPEG4 Video is a Video codec standard. MPEG4 includes many such standards) gets modded up "insightful"
I mean, you don't even know the difference between a 64 bit CPU and a 32 bit CPU, but here's a clue: the pentium is a 32 bit CPU.
When they start shipping itaniums in PCs, then you can talk. (And no, we all knwo you are lying when you say you can get an 8 way pentium desktop.... but then the difference between SMP and clustering is too technical for this forum, isn't it?)
Slashdot is a waste of time-- there are no engineers here.
The thing is those Macs are cheaper than comperable PCs out there right now-- especially when you compare performance.
But when you presume that a 800MHz Celeron is the same speed as a dual 2GHz G5, you're just comparing apples to oranges and noticing one of them costs more.
PC people have never understood that macs are vastly faster than PCs-- and they odn't want to hear it either, because they like thir Linux or Windows boxes.
But its true-- apple machines haven't had a premium price tag since 1995. Since then, if you look at price / performance, Macs have been cheaper than PCs from quality makers.
Hmmm... the thing is, you can't get a dual processor pentium, or one with a 1GHz 64bit frontside buss, or even one with Hypertransport.
(Is AMD Shipping it on its chips yet?)
Frankly, you can't get a pentium (at any price) That is as fast as the G5, and you can't get the architecture of the G5 in a PC computer. And certainly not for less than $3K!
That said, the design doesn't lend itself well to the web or quicktimes... I think the machines probably look really cool in real life (like the iMac loooked funny on the web with that big screen, but in real life looks very elegant.)
Re:This will be another solid update
on
Jaguar is Over
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· Score: 5, Insightful
The idea that Apple hasn't given BSD credit is absurd.
Hell, they're getting sued for having the "Based on unix" graphic on their pages!
They have regularly acknowledged ths situation,and given back by releasing darwin.
The idea that all they are doing is selling other peoples improvementis is also absurd (its a troll really).
They developed a really nice new IO system and released it into darwin, for instance, along with a thousand other things.
And they develop useful apps and sell a OS that has features that Linux and BSD aren't matching yet-- they make money from the value add, while contributing back to the base open source OS.
ITs a win-win business model.
You guys need to get over your bitterness that someone somewhere is selling software and start being realistic.
That's funny, you can get ATI video cards for every powermac.
Yeah, they made the leak and apple was probably pissed-- but this bullshit fabricated rumor that apple switched to Nvidia 3 days before an expo is just stupid.
It takes months to get a deal, order enough cards, and test a new video card provider before shipping product.
Its just more of that mercurial steve jobs myth that people like to propogate.
ATI shipped cards before they leaked the info, and after. Apple just also offered NVIDIA because they were beating ATI in performance at the time.
No big deal. I bet someone got a reprimand last night, but I doubt they lost their job.
I'm sure it was a slipup, and it gives those of use who are so attentive (the minority of computer users) a few days jump before the keynote... but it doesn't really impact the ability of apple to market the new macs.
ITs not as significant to them as it is to US. We're salivating and any info is really important... but for Apple,. the goal is to reach the 30 million Mac users out there--- not the few fanatics who read slashdot and the rumor sites regularly enough to have gotten this info before monday, when everyone gets it.
That whole settlement and investment was a cover-- MS invested $100M publically, but has been paying apple around a $1B a year since then to cover th patents the infringed on and all the source code to quicktime that some how appeared inside of MS's media player.
MS got caught stealing apples technology so much they just settled for MS paying Apple hundreds of millions (if not multiple billions) each year and cross licensing the technology.
At least, that's what some foresnic accountants told me after the deal happened-- apple's balance sheet suddenly looked a lot better without that big an increase in sales.
And $100M is one of those figures that your average idiot thinks is a lot of money,but anyone familiar with the companies recognizes is like me giving my sister a fifty cent piece to "Bail her out of her financial trouble."
This is not an example of free markets-- if it were a free market, MS Would not have been able to become the abusive monopoly that it is.
government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.
Think about it-- if everyone could sue MS for forcing them pay for copies of Windows they didn't want (Even for macs that cant run it!) without MS having the protection of the class action limitation-- MS would be held far more accountable than they are now.
This problem is the result of corrupt government, and UNFREE markets. Not freemarkets.
Actually, the reality is that free market economics always works to the poors benefit, and socialism always works to their detriment.
This isn't a straw man-- when jobs move overseas, liberals whine and complain about losing american jobs. they don't get excited tht americans move to higher paying jobs, and the poor people in the other country get the high paying factory jobs (that are too low paying for americans to do.)
No, it doesn't matter how good the working conditions are-- you guys will always be complaining.
Notice all the liberals complaining about the longshoreman not getting paid a "living wage".
Have oyu heard that term-- "Living wage"?? You guys go on and on about this.
Yet longshoreman-- the ones who want to strike for poor working conditions-- make on average $100,000 a year, and have excellent working conditions.
The liberal agenda has no credibility (neither does the barely different republican agenda) but then- most of your followers aren't in the habit of thinking critically.
Its amazing to see peole making $25,000 a year going on and on about how poor the $100K a year longshoreman have it!
Socialism's death toll is over 100 million in the last 100 years.
That's an average of a million people a year.
Meanwhile capitalism has raised over a BILLION people out of the poverty level in that same period-- and would have raised even more if socialism hadn't manage to impoverish many of hte millions who weren't killed by it.
Go take an economics class. And stop adovcating starvation as a better situation than "subsistance".
Funny thing is liberal idiots are always whining about "a living wage" yet, for instance, the longshorman's union's average member makes $100,000 a year-- and they are going on strike for not getting a "Living wage"! And you support this idiocy,even though you probably make %20 of that wage..... now why is that?
Slashdot Mirror
If it were false, you could quote a pentium-- not Xeon-- Pentium machined that did it.
My statement was true, and your denials confirm it!
The Xeon is much more expensive than the pentium.
But, it is odd that you got modded down for flaming-- usually flaming anything pro-mac is Karma whoring.
Oh, really? You got a pointer to this sub $3K desktop PC with 64G of ram?
Frankly, there's no way since the pentium cannot address 64G of ram.
JEsus you'd think slashdot users would at least know the basics of computer architecture.
I'm actually using a custom application.
At some point in the future, I'm planning to release it to the world at large.
It just uses the Apple Quicktime framework, so you can write your own app to do it, if you're a programmer.
IF not, keep your eyes open.... my app is coming soon.
When are you idiots going to learn that MHz is not a measure of performance? ITs a measure of clock rate-- and often its not even the CPUs actual clock rate!
Divx, or whatever flakey varient of it you claim to be encoding to is not MPEG-4 video.
Anyway, the fact of the matter is Macs are cheaper than PCs for comperable performance.
The reason you guys refuse to see it is you're PC zeolots and you liek to twist numbers.
But eventually people will realize that MHz is not the same as speed.
Oh, but thanks for posting yet another bogus comparison using old pricing (please, al least use the current apple pricing.)
Every time I compare, and I do every year or so, you get faster hardware for less money from Apple.
And that's not even including the fact that Macs last longer than PCs-- I've yet ot see a PC (in all the jobs I worked at) last more than 2 years--- usually they die when teh warranty runs out-- and theres a correspondence between how cheap they are and when they die.
Sube $1K PCs last a year or less, as the powersupplies have to be pathetically cheap.
You get what you pay for, and some peopel would rather pay every three months to keep their PC running, than buy a machine once (for less initial money!) and keep it for 6 years.
Actually, I didn't miss the point... you were making an absurd point, and I gave you the benefit of the doubt.
Since you are claiming that you can get Celeron machines for $20 each, you must be buying just the CPUs and spending no moeny on anything else.
Comparing a custom built massively parallel computer ON A PRICE BASIS to off the shelf machines designed for the desktop is just STOOPID.
Now, if you want to talk about a custom built massively parrallel machine based on the G5 verses the Celeron , then go ahead and get IBMS CPU pricing,.... just don't use Apple sretail desktop pricing and compare it to this mythical Celeron system without hard drives or network cards, etc. etc.
Actually, the custom engineering to put 1,500 Celeron CPUs together (since they don't support SMP, and certainly not on that scale, and you can't go out and buy 1500 CPU motherboards) alone would run you more than $30k.
Yeah, why port to x86? Slower hardware that costs more.
PowerPC is, and always will be more price/performance competitive than the x86.
Apple hardware is Cheap!
Go try to price a dual Xeon system to compare to the Dual G5 systems from a company like Dell. You can pay a thousand bucks more for a slower system from Dell, but I don't see why you would want to!
Not flaming you at all, just pointing this out as the myth that apples computers are expensive is really old and really annoying. They aren't.
Apple doesn't sell the bottom of the line machines for $500, for which you'd be better off getting an XBOX anyway, but in tehir price ranges they have much higher performance than the competition.
Thus, Linux on Mac is no problem-- Apple's even putting Linux APIs (I don't know which) into Panther to make porting easier.
Only on slashdot do I get moderated "Troll" for talking abou the technical sutff (hypertransport, the 1Ghz front side buss, etc)
But an guy who can only call me names and expresses his ignorance of MPEG4 (MPEG4 Video is a Video codec standard. MPEG4 includes many such standards) gets modded up "insightful"
I mean, you don't even know the difference between a 64 bit CPU and a 32 bit CPU, but here's a clue: the pentium is a 32 bit CPU.
When they start shipping itaniums in PCs, then you can talk. (And no, we all knwo you are lying when you say you can get an 8 way pentium desktop.... but then the difference between SMP and clustering is too technical for this forum, isn't it?)
Slashdot is a waste of time-- there are no engineers here.
No, actually it wouldn't.
The thing is those Macs are cheaper than comperable PCs out there right now-- especially when you compare performance.
But when you presume that a 800MHz Celeron is the same speed as a dual 2GHz G5, you're just comparing apples to oranges and noticing one of them costs more.
PC people have never understood that macs are vastly faster than PCs-- and they odn't want to hear it either, because they like thir Linux or Windows boxes.
But its true-- apple machines haven't had a premium price tag since 1995. Since then, if you look at price / performance, Macs have been cheaper than PCs from quality makers.
Even yesterday they were with the G4s.
Hmmm... the thing is, you can't get a dual processor pentium, or one with a 1GHz 64bit frontside buss, or even one with Hypertransport.
(Is AMD Shipping it on its chips yet?)
Frankly, you can't get a pentium (at any price) That is as fast as the G5, and you can't get the architecture of the G5 in a PC computer. And certainly not for less than $3K!
That said, the design doesn't lend itself well to the web or quicktimes... I think the machines probably look really cool in real life (like the iMac loooked funny on the web with that big screen, but in real life looks very elegant.)
The idea that Apple hasn't given BSD credit is absurd.
,and given back by releasing darwin.
Hell, they're getting sued for having the "Based on unix" graphic on their pages!
They have regularly acknowledged ths situation
The idea that all they are doing is selling other peoples improvementis is also absurd (its a troll really).
They developed a really nice new IO system and released it into darwin, for instance, along with a thousand other things.
And they develop useful apps and sell a OS that has features that Linux and BSD aren't matching yet-- they make money from the value add, while contributing back to the base open source OS.
ITs a win-win business model.
You guys need to get over your bitterness that someone somewhere is selling software and start being realistic.
That's funny, you can get ATI video cards for every powermac.
Yeah, they made the leak and apple was probably pissed-- but this bullshit fabricated rumor that apple switched to Nvidia 3 days before an expo is just stupid.
It takes months to get a deal, order enough cards, and test a new video card provider before shipping product.
Its just more of that mercurial steve jobs myth that people like to propogate.
ATI shipped cards before they leaked the info, and after. Apple just also offered NVIDIA because they were beating ATI in performance at the time.
No big deal. I bet someone got a reprimand last night, but I doubt they lost their job.
I'm sure it was a slipup, and it gives those of use who are so attentive (the minority of computer users) a few days jump before the keynote... but it doesn't really impact the ability of apple to market the new macs.
ITs not as significant to them as it is to US. We're salivating and any info is really important... but for Apple,. the goal is to reach the 30 million Mac users out there--- not the few fanatics who read slashdot and the rumor sites regularly enough to have gotten this info before monday, when everyone gets it.
That whole settlement and investment was a cover-- MS invested $100M publically, but has been paying apple around a $1B a year since then to cover th patents the infringed on and all the source code to quicktime that some how appeared inside of MS's media player.
MS got caught stealing apples technology so much they just settled for MS paying Apple hundreds of millions (if not multiple billions) each year and cross licensing the technology.
At least, that's what some foresnic accountants told me after the deal happened-- apple's balance sheet suddenly looked a lot better without that big an increase in sales.
And $100M is one of those figures that your average idiot thinks is a lot of money
This is not an example of free markets-- if it were a free market, MS Would not have been able to become the abusive monopoly that it is.
government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.
Think about it-- if everyone could sue MS for forcing them pay for copies of Windows they didn't want (Even for macs that cant run it!) without MS having the protection of the class action limitation-- MS would be held far more accountable than they are now.
This problem is the result of corrupt government, and UNFREE markets. Not freemarkets.
Nope. That's what socialism does-- it ruins the lives of the poor.
Look at the economics behind libertarianism-- its not jsut right, its practical!
When you oppose those economics, you really are saying you want the poor to starve.... as 30 million did in russia, for instance.
Liberals really do hate the poor-- and the ironic thing is they think they are trying to help them.
Ah, except that I DIDN'T lump you in-- I just spoke about the people I oppose.
YOu are the one who assumed you belonged to that class.
But now that you say it, you're probably right.
Funny that you noticed your own insecurity more than the words I actually used.
Actually, the reality is that free market economics always works to the poors benefit, and socialism always works to their detriment.
This isn't a straw man-- when jobs move overseas, liberals whine and complain about losing american jobs. they don't get excited tht americans move to higher paying jobs, and the poor people in the other country get the high paying factory jobs (that are too low paying for americans to do.)
Coprorations are made up of people.
When you say "Corporations shouldn't have rights" you're saying people shouldn't have rights.
And thus, like most of your kind, you oppose human rights.
The words "Woman" and "Slave" do NOT appear in the first ammendment.
Have you guys ever even READ it?
I don't need luck. I have the facts on my side.
Just look at the Nobel prize for last year- it was given to a CATO associate.
Look at most of the recent nobel prizes.
Market economics is proving itself every year, and your socialist ideology is even more discredited every year.
You WOULD rather they starve-- as people do in every socialist environment-- than work in a factory you wouldn't work in.
And that's hypocritical, and sad.
Yep, its better to have a decent wage (Hell - a HIGH Wage by local conditions) than to starve.
That you call them sweatshops instead of factories is just like the Nazis calling jews rats.
Logic isn't on your side, so you call them "sweatshops" and claim that the people who work there are SLAVES and FORCED CHILD LABOR.
Which is a lie.
No, it doesn't matter how good the working conditions are-- you guys will always be complaining.
Notice all the liberals complaining about the longshoreman not getting paid a "living wage".
Have oyu heard that term-- "Living wage"?? You guys go on and on about this.
Yet longshoreman-- the ones who want to strike for poor working conditions-- make on average $100,000 a year, and have excellent working conditions.
The liberal agenda has no credibility (neither does the barely different republican agenda) but then- most of your followers aren't in the habit of thinking critically.
Its amazing to see peole making $25,000 a year going on and on about how poor the $100K a year longshoreman have it!
Son, you need to take a class in economics.
Socialism's death toll is over 100 million in the last 100 years.
That's an average of a million people a year.
Meanwhile capitalism has raised over a BILLION people out of the poverty level in that same period-- and would have raised even more if socialism hadn't manage to impoverish many of hte millions who weren't killed by it.
Go take an economics class. And stop adovcating starvation as a better situation than "subsistance".
Funny thing is liberal idiots are always whining about "a living wage" yet, for instance, the longshorman's union's average member makes $100,000 a year-- and they are going on strike for not getting a "Living wage"! And you support this idiocy
Ah, so your beef is with corrupt governments, right?
IF you follow that thinking, you'll notice that governments in the US do the VERY SAME THING.
They SIEZE LAND regularly, declare it public, and then give it to a company.
And yet, you want them to have even the power to prevent speech for even more people? You want to give the governments more power?
Oh, and by the way, your assertion that all so called sweatshops come about this way is false.