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Apple Marketing Hypes New PowerMacs
Wacky_Wookie was only one of many who wrote in with a mention of Apple's "leak" of specifications for a new line of PowerMacs to be dubbed "G5", apparently running the new PowerPC 970 CPUs. No offense, but anyone who thinks it was a mistake or leak doesn't understand marketing. :) Update by J : In case those linked sites get taken down too, try
MacNN.
Yay for Apple! Now we might finally see some machines that not only kick the PCs butt performance-wise, but annihilate it. Stylish and functional... ewww!
I guess it seems that all the speculation was right on the money.
/college
And I still can't afford it...
Opinionated Law Student Strikes Again!
The reasons to have your next PC upgrade be a Mac keep increasing, and the only thing that might make the PC platform attractive are the rumors that HP will be releasing an Opteron soon. Personally I can't wait till I can have a 64-bit desktop machine with built in Gigabit.
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
But you can get it from here.
Also more on the story here.
My journal has hot
I wonder how many people were thinking "Gee, I'd hate to be the guy who made that mistake!"
Well, I'd love to be that guy, as he will probably get a big promotion for generating even more interest into Apple's upcoming event.
Still #1 -- Lonely Gay Geek
Which the Register failed to mention. I'm thinking my next computer may well be a Mac...
No offense, but anyone who thinks it was a mistake or leak doesn't understand marketing. :) -- Michael
No offense, anyone who has half a clue is fully aware that Apple is particularly fascist and litigious regarding details of product launches leaking out. In particular, Steve Jobs simply loves the "wow" he gets from the audience by completely surprising them. In this case, few people actually expected DUAL 2Ghz PPC970 (G5) configurations available. Now, people are going to be less surprised on Monday.
Surely Michael is welcome to tell us how much he understands marketing and what products has he actually marketed, and we can see how much his credentials stack up against someone in charge of Apple and Pixar.
The new desktops will indeed be branded 'G5'.
;)
Man, I couldn't be more shocked if the next version of Windows was called 2004 or 2005. What will they think of next?
The coolest voice ever.
The was from a graphic directly from store.apple.com on the PowerMac site; not from a little teen's weblog (heh)...the credibility is high, and all of the sites that had posted the information have since removed the graphic per request from apple. macrumors, macnn, appleinsider, mac minute, etc.
the posted specs went far beyond the expectations of...anyone.
* 1.6Ghz, 1.8Ghz, or dual 2Ghz PowerPC G5 Processors
* Up to 1 Ghz processor bus (!!)
* Up to 8 GB of DDR SDRAM
* Fast Serial ATA hard drives
* AGP 8X Pro graphics options from NVIDIA or ATI
* Three PCI or PCI-X expansion slots
* Three USB 2.0 ports
* One FireWire 800, two FireWire 400 ports
* Bluetooth & Airport Extreme ready
* Optical and analog audio in and out
Quite a leap from the current dual 1.42Ghz G4 boxes, with a 166Mhz bus...
four nine eighteen twenty-7 thirty-nine forty-7 fiftyeight sixty-nine seventy-9 eighty-8 one-hundred-and-nine one-twenty
Well, as soon as they leak the specs on the G5 PowerBooks, I might be getting a new laptop. Ever since Apple put UNIX under their OS, I've been more and more persuaded to buy one. Then, I actually used one, with a regular wheel mouse, and I thought "I should really get one of these". So, now that I've seen this, I am way more likely to get an apple laptop. But Tux still 0wnz my desktop soul, now and forever. *Bows before the Dark Penguin gods*
it was a mistake. Apple has always been tight lipped about new product releases, and why would they want to reduce the impact the WWDC keynote will have?? If they wanted people to know about this, they would have released the info earlier. This was a mistake made with updating the online store.
And heads will roll for the poor souls who accidently updated the store to early.
I'm sure these would be set at the "You Have To Be KIDDING me!" price point, but I'm sure these would be delicious machines to get a hold of.
Would these be CHRP (common hardware ref. platform) compliant? Or has apple abandoned that? Cuz then you could run MacOS, or Linux, or AIX all native on the same box.
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
Remember the iMac flat panel introduction? Time Canada posted the news story to their website early monday morning, according to their normal news cycle...containing the story of the iMac FP with lots of fun pictures.
I can see it now in the keynote: "As some of you MAY have already heard (insert laughter) we have....(insert product announcements)"
whooo.
adam
Expansion will be provided by three "PCI or PCI-X" slots, and - for the first time on a Mac - USB 2.0 ports, of which there are three.
To avoid any consumer confusion, Apple also stated that the USB 2.0 ports, previously called USB 1.1, were not "high speed" USB 2.0, but rather "ordinary" USB 2.0 (USB 1.1). The PCI slot will also be rebranded to PCI-X due to high customer demand for PCI-X slots. To make this clear, they also announced plans to rebrand the PCI-X slot as "PCI-X ultra high speed" and the PCI slot to "PCI high-speed". USB 2.0 ultra-mega-super-high speed expansion ports (previously called USB 2.0 high-speed) were also rumored.
"I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy"
here, here and here.
I'll bite.
G5 is a marketing name and not a chip name. They can happily call the PPC 970 anything they want and G5 kind of makes sence.
The PPC 970 requires a bus speed half that of the processor speed hence the 1Ghz bus on the 2Ghz model. That would be achievable using HyperTransport.
And saying something it not real due to their use of the words one and two instead of the numeral ? Please.
>> Optical and analog audio in and out
> Bad grammar, but optical audio in a graphics > machine? I'm sorry but this sounds like wishful > thinking. One more point impossible.
Optical digital audio in/out might describe it better. Optical refers to the medium. Optical I/O is great for people with high quality audio equipment such as Minidisc.
Going back through my memory, I can think of a couple other very important leaks:
* ATI leaks news of updated PowerMac G4s (and summarily gets poor product placement in them afterwards, with Apple favoring Nvidia for years to come)
* Time Canada posts story of new flat-panel iMac before paper issue even hits the streets.
I'm sure there have been more, but those seem to be the most important.
This one will go down as probably the most significant leak in quite a while.
For your information, a PC motherboard with similar specifications is available from supermicro. All these features are plausible.
any idea when powerbooks will begin using the G5?
I don't see a 1GHz bus on that motherboard.
RST
Took the words right out of my mouth.
The twit who posted this story thinks he can run Apple. All he's really showing his ignorance.
"Optical and analog audio in and out
Bad grammar, but optical audio in a graphics machine? I'm sorry but this sounds like wishful thinking. One more point impossible"
Why is this impossible?
There are motherboards with optical audio in and out built in, and you can buy PCI sound cards with optical audio built in for less than $50. I bought a Gamesourround Fortissimo II more than a year ago for less than $40, and it's got optical in and out.
And if they're wanting to create a media creation and/or editing system, then of course they would have optical in/out.
OK I can't believe the mac world is going gaga over these specs. The screenshot font, color and layout do NOT match that of anywhere else on the Apple site. Taking a look through the specs is also quite revealing
Revealing indeed, but not of what you think.
- 1.6GHz, 1.8GHz or Dual 2GHz PowerPC G5 Processors
It's not a G5, it's a PPC970, completely different beasts. Not to mention neither Motorola or IBM have 2GHz chips in their roadmap until 2005. Bzzzt One point impossible
G5 = branding. And IBM have 2.5 GHz chips in their roadmap for 2004 (in the new blades) so 2 GHz in 2003 isn't that odd.
- Up to 1GHz processor bus
1GHz bus? gimme a break. Intel hasn't yet reached this. Two points impossible
Read the specs of the PPC 970, freely available all over the internet. The bus runs at 1/2 the processor speed, hence 2 GHz is 1GHz bus. Even the 1.8 GHz chips, which are definitely announced by IBM for other products, have 900 MHz buses.
- Up to 8GB of DDR SDRAM
This one is acceptable
- Fast Serial ATA hard drives
This is also possible
- AGP 8X Pro graphics options from NVIDIA or ATI
Almost believable, but for the moment Apple are phasing out the use of NVIDIA cards in their machines. I highly doubt they'll be used. Half a point impossible
They're not "phasing out" anything; at the time they introduced the latest powermacs, ATI simply had better cards available.
- Three USB 2.0 ports
The rest of Apples site would say "3 USB Ports" not "Three". Also, Apple have a long standing habit of using Firewire instead of USB 2.0. I take this as one point impossible
The current MDD powermacs already have USB 2.0. That the next models should also have it is not surprising in the least.
- One FireWire 800, two FireWire 400 ports
Once again use of the verbal "One" instead of the numeric. Only one FW800 port? Why would Apple stick with FireWire 400 anyway? I mark this impossible
Because FW800 is not backwards compatible. The connector is physically different. They have to stick with 400 for now.
- Bluetooth & AirPort Extreme ready
Likely
- Optical and analog audio in and out
Bad grammar, but optical audio in a graphics machine? I'm sorry but this sounds like wishful thinking. One more point impossible.
This one does puzzle me slightly, but Apple don't consider their machines "graphics machines". Macs are all-purpose. It's no fault of Apple if they are pigeonholed by others as "only for graphics". Also, even if they were "graphics machines," video editing kind of requires sound...
In total, that's 4 and a half impossible features out of ten. If you're waiting on this machine, you'll be waiting a LONG time
I make that 0 impossible features, and one odd one. Come Monday, you will be feeling very silly.
No offense, but anyone who thinks it was a mistake or leak doesn't understand marketing. :)
Oooh, now thanks to Michael, I understand those devious marketdroids. Silly me, I thought the halloween document was a real leak, or at least a fake, but now I understand why Microsoft's image and sales have sky-rocketed since its release : it's because their marketing department released it on purpose !
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
- Three USB 2.0 ports
The rest of Apples site would say "3 USB Ports" not "Three". Also, Apple have a long standing habit of using Firewire instead of USB 2.0. I take this as one point impossible
Yeah, except the current G4s have USB 2.0 hardware onboard, Apple just restricted it to USB 1.1 operation.
- One FireWire 800, two FireWire 400 ports
Once again use of the verbal "One" instead of the numeric. Only one FW800 port? Why would Apple stick with FireWire 400 anyway? I mark this impossible
Oh, yeah? That's what's shipping in the current G4: 2 FW400, and 1 FW800. Since 800 is rather new, people will be more likely to need more 400 ports for their existing devices-- plus it would be dumb to make someone have to 'waste' an 800 port on a 400 device. For now, 2 of the older standard makes sense.
- Bluetooth & AirPort Extreme ready
Likely
Again, thank you, Captain Obvious-- since this is how current G4s are shipping.
~Philly
> ...but optical audio in a graphics machine? I'm sorry
> Also, Apple have a long standing habit of using Firewire
> instead of USB 2.0. I take this as one point impossible.
>
Didn't I read that the USB port on recent Macs _is_ an USB 2.0 port, and that only the driver was missing?
>
> Bad grammar..
>
Careful where you pont that thing, son. You might shoot your own self.
>
>
> but this sounds like wishful thinking.
>
The Macs will do whatever you want: calling them a "graphics machine" only shows that _your_ vision is limited. I mean, they're not the front-end console for a drum-scanner or a Cray, fer chrissakes. Think the old "digital hub" idea, and imagine one of these Bad Larrys plugged right into your home stereo.
G3, G4, and G5 are Apple names, not Motorola names. Apple will probably call the 970 a G5.
G5 is the name of the computer, not the processor. Motorolla planned a G5 processor, but I don't think they ever got it working. The specs of the machines fit in with the 970. So it's called a G5, but it's really a 970. Early 970's did 1.8ghz, so it's highly likely that production has got that to 2.0ghz.
The specs I read earlier for the 970 indicated a 900mhz bus, so a 1ghz bus is not out of the question with the new hypertransport stuff.
Apple play NVIDIA and ATI off against each other. They've offered both for quite a while now.
Sure Apple use Firewire - they invented it, but I bet if they're using more PC standards in their motherboard that USB 2 comes along for the ride. Supposodly the latest crop of Power Macs had USB2.0, just without the higher speed drivers. Remember Apple were the first to popularise USB...
Why only one Firewire800 port? Well, it has a different connector so your old gear won't plug into it without an adapter.
Macs are not "graphics machines" - they're general purpose professional computers. With all the audio software and video software that Apple are putting out, this becomes a great feature.
All I wish is that I'd started saving earlier.....
-- oldthinkers unbellyfeel ingsoc
The 'G' classification is an Apple trademark, so they can call it whatever they want, G5, etc. you idiot,
I just took a look at http://www.emperorlinux.com/ and found that the high-end Dell laptop, the one with the WIDE SCREEN display was fully supported by Red Hat 9, which is the main Linux that they ship...
So, I ordered myself a Dell and it will be in my hands this evening...
Now, I get the best of "both" worlds... I have a kick-ass and sexy EASILY portable system to take to LAN Parties, which will play just about EVERY game out there, being that it runs Windows... AND I will also be able to partition the hard disk to toss Red Hat 9 on it, providing me with a powerful portable UNIX workstation that supports 3 button functionality RIGHT on its built-in mouse pad...
(Try that with a Mac!)
If I really wanted to... I could also order up some easily replaceable "Skins" for this high-end Inspiron Laptop giving it a more unique look. Needless to say, this will be one bad-ass machine.
I can't say the Mac laptops are all that bad. I went to the local store to take a look at their 15.4" wide screen displays to help me make my decision about buying the Dell. (I almost went for the standard 15.4" screen until I saw the beauty that is the Wide Screen on a laptop format...)
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
I have no idea about this "G5." But most of your reasons aren't particularly compelling:
It's not a G5, it's a PPC970, completely different beasts.
One's a marketing term, the other technical. Apple can label as "G5" anything it wants.
Not to mention neither Motorola or IBM have 2GHz chips in their roadmap until 2005
Overclocking?
1GHz bus? gimme a break. Intel hasn't yet reached this. Two points impossible
Exactly half 2 GHz; why impossible? Even Intel can be leapfrogged.
Almost believable, but for the moment Apple are phasing out the use of NVIDIA cards in their machines. I highly doubt they'll be used.
Vague. Who knows?
The rest of Apples site would say "3 USB Ports" not "Three". Also, Apple have a long standing habit of using Firewire instead of USB 2.0. I take this as one point impossible
Lack of USB2 has been a big complaint. And presumably the graphic was a draft--no final copyediting done yet.
Only one FW800 port? Why would Apple stick with FireWire 400 anyway? I mark this impossible
I assume there's a cost difference between 400 and 800? If significant, doesn't seem crazy to provide one *very* high-speed port, and others moderate.
Bad grammar, but optical audio in a graphics machine? I'm sorry but this sounds like wishful thinking. One more point impossible.
This one is a little weird, I agree.
B
"Science is a tribute to what we can know although we are fallible" -Jacob Bronowski
It is? I was under the impression that nobody was actually certain that this would be used. Everybody is simply assuming it will be, but there has been no confirmation from anybody.
"- Up to 1GHz processor bus
..."
1GHz bus? gimme a break. Intel hasn't yet reached this.
Just because Intel can't do it doesn't mean Apple/IBM/board vendor can't do it. I seem to recall AMD doing things that Intel can't or won't.
Otherwise, with those specs, it's about time. When it does come out, it will at least give Intel/AMD a run for the money (remember, the 64 bit stuff will be out by then), instead of eating their dust.
G4/G5 is a branding thing, or at the very least a processor family classification. The G4's are PPC74**'s, such as the 7450 in my PB. Apple would go with the term "G5" if only from a branding perspective.
Don't take this as truth, but I have read that the processor:bus ratio for the 970 is 2:1, making the bus speed on the 2Ghz 1Ghz. This is in line with the graphic.
Apple still uses NVIDIA as their low-end graphics card on the PM, and on one of the current PB (the 17" I think). Not impossible in the least
In regards to the "three" vs. "3" comment, look at this graphic:
Current PM Specs Graphic
It uses both the numeral and spelled out number. Some of the uses look like they were done to preserve spacing or lengthen a short sentence.
Apple has a long standing habit of using USB 1.1 as well as Firewire. Apple has always stated that both have their uses. People have been clamoring for USB 2.0 for a while now and there is no reason for Apple to not include it.
FW400 and FW800 use different connectors. FW400 is for legacy devices and those that do not need to run at the new specs speed
Remember the Mac is also used in numbers in the video and audio fields. Both of these would benefit strongly from the use of optical audio.
All this being said, these still could not be the true specs but they are not outside the realm of possibility as you claim. We'll have to wait until Monday to find out for sure.
G5 is Apple's marketing name (if they will use it, nothing certain before monday) and PPC970 is name of the processor by IBM. Just like G4 is Apple's marketing name while Motorola has names of the format 7xxxx for the family of G4 processors. Completely same beast.
Well, how many PPC processors can support 8 GB of RAM with a FSB of half the chip's frequency ? :)
No, according to the USB forum I think you'll find that they restricted it to UBS 2.0 (Full Speed)
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
I have the best reason why this can't be fake. I saw it on the Apple Store Website myself. And yes, I took a screen cap. So unless it was a hack, or a joke from an employee, this is very accurate.
IBM's presentation for the 970 (back in October last year) says it'll run up to 1.8 GHz with 900 MHz processor bus.
(Go to their site, search for 970 and look at the 1st link)
Not much of a stretch needed to scale that up to 2 Ghz and a 1000 Mhz bus.
geez, and the pentium iii wasn't much of an upgrade over the pentium II, right? it could be just a name used for marketing. maybe they want to avoid a situation where a ppc970 seems as awkward a mouthful to say as "Pentium II celeron".
I will concede to you on the 2ghz.. that was a suprise to me as well.
i guess you were pretty incredulous when the Athlon came out with a double data rate bus before Intel. Intel does not corner the market on chip innovation: Hypertransport, for example, is pretty much something that Intel has nothing to do with either.
guess you missed the bulletin that USB 2.0 chipsets are on new powermacs right now...
becuase fw400 and 800 use different plugs? becuase there are mostly FW400 perhipherals available? i could think of all sorts of reasons. the 17" cafeteria tray powerbook has only one FW800...
yeah it's whishful thinking. but hell, if the Creative Labs Audigy can have a SPDIF input and output, why not a mac? What kind of moron does audio on a mac? oh Skywalker Sound and Aphex Twin. i mean, have you ever heard of Protools?
maybe it's going to be a big hoax and we'll all look like dupes. but saying that these things are "impossible" makes me think you've been reading too much PC propaganda.
Jobs:
You.. You are FIRED...
and YOU! You are SOOO FIRED!
and you... you too are very VERY FIRED!
Guy:
But.. I wasn't even HERE yesterday!
Jobs:
I don't care! You are FIRED!
"To make a mistake is only human; to persist in a mistake is idiotic." Cicero
check out these pictures
;)
and download some music or something while you are there!
earth2willi.com
Now, you can still think it's a fake (it's quite possible, I don't know), but your arguments sound quite unconvincing to me.
Donate free food here
Optical I/O is great for people with high quality audio equipment such as Minidisc.
Can somebody please explain this to me? Doesn't good old CD audio have greater-than-or-equal quality to any format supported by Minidisc players?
Check here.
It's not a G5, it's a PPC970, completely different beasts. Not to mention neither Motorola or IBM have 2GHz chips in their roadmap until 2005. Bzzzt One point impossible
From the article: The PowerPC 970 design starts by remapping one of the POWER4 processor cores to 0.13-micron technology and increasing its frequency up to 1.8 GHz.
So they more or less say here the new processors will begin at 1.8 Ghz, 2GHZ can't be that far off.
1GHz bus? gimme a break. Intel hasn't yet reached this. Two points impossible
Again from the article: The 970's multiple execution units including an AltiVecâ compatible vector processor are fed by an up to 900-MHz processor interface bus, which can deliver data at a rate of up to 6.4 GBps.
900Mhz!?! This is bigger than intel, this can't be?!? Does 1Ghz look that impossible now? Maybe the bus runs on half the processor speed? This would match the artciles 900mhz / 1.8Ghz
Bad grammar, but optical audio in a graphics machine?
Many Macs are also used in the audio business, so why is this impossible comming from a company suchs as Apple?
Maybe not SO impossible as you might seem to think?
a lot of G4's shipped with just. plain. awful sound cards. this is welcome news.
Apple Lone Gunmens the G5 Announcement
It's not a G5, it's a PPC970, completely different beasts.
Newsflash, kiddo: neither Motorola nor IBM sell a CPU called the "G4". "G4" was a "marchitechture" term coined by Apple in the spirit of Motorola's internal "G3" codename for the PPC750. The chip inside any "PowerMac G4" is some flavor of a Motorola PowerPC 7400, no matter what Apple calls it.
You can pretty much bet the farm that Apple will call every varient of the PPC970 they ship a "PowerPC G5".
1GHz bus? gimme a break. Intel hasn't yet reached this. Two points impossible.
Ahem. ("1ghz" is probably apple marketing-speak, but it's always been known that the PPC970 will have a stupidly fast FSB -- Intel isn't the only company that can innovate in this field, eh?)
Almost believable, but for the moment Apple are phasing out the use of NVIDIA cards in their machines.
Simply and 100% wrong. Apple has been doing pretty much exactly the same thing for the last three years on this front: providing whichever of the two offered them the best OEM pricing as the default configuration, and offering the other as a build-to-order option. They will continue to do this.
Also, Apple have a long standing habit of using Firewire instead of USB 2.0
Here, you may be correct, but there are two issues that may force them to start shipping "USB 2.0" connectors: first, the USB consortium has recently declared that all USB ports are "USB 2.0" (yes, this is weird and stupid), and secondly it's actually getting a bit difficult to source USB controllers that only support the 1.0/1.1 specs.
Once again use of the verbal "One" instead of the numeric. Only one FW800 port? Why would Apple stick with FireWire 400 anyway? I mark this impossible
FW400 and FW800 use different connectors, and there are not yet many FW800 products on the market. This is called "covering your bets" and "not pissing off your customers". BTW, 1x FW800 and 2x FW400 is also the configuration on the 17" AlBook, so they've already shipped one machine in exactly this "impossible" configuration.
optical audio in a graphics machine? I'm sorry but this sounds like wishful thinking.
No, it sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about. Do you have any idea how many macs are used in audio production? Are you aware that Apple sells their own high-end audio composition program? The only surprise about a PowerMac with optical TOSlink is that they didn't do it years ago.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
Or maybe they are changing the site design?
Sorry? You do realise that "G4" wasn't the official name for that processor either, don't you? It was the 7400. Apple can call the 970 whatever they want. The specs match the 970 perfectly.
Do some reading on the 970. Its bus is clocked at 1/4 the speed of the processor, DDR. So the effective bus speed of the 2 GHz version is 1 GHz.
Impossible? That's a strong word for someone with no supporting evidence.
Once again, impossible? Do you even know what that word means? If you said "In my opinion it's unlikely" then I'd let it go but "impossible"?!
This may well turn out to be fake but your reasoning leaves much to be desired. I'm putting my money on this being true.
Although I agree that some of the wording is not consistant with Apple's regular product descriptions, the specs are not at all impossible. If you've been keeping up with the news behind the G5, you'll know a few things. First, the G5 is the PPC970. The "G" product name has a shit-load of product recognition. Like the Pentiums. How close is a Pentium4 to a Pentium3? Not very much. Also, about the system bus, they are using Hyper-Transport which does allow for a 1GHz system bus. I've seen system design specs that indicate a doulbe (or possibly even quad) pumped, bidirectional bus (500MHz out / 500MHz in). About the FireWire 800/400 issues: it's all about cost and bandwidth. Anything more than 1 FireWire 800 port is so unnecessary, it's rediculous. Name anything that can use all that bandwidth, let alone the system bus! All that bandwidth room requires computing power which requires more circuits which, in turn, requires more money. FireWire 400 is fast enough for anything right now. Also, about USB 2.0, look at the number of products out now which requires USB 2.0. Apple would be stupid not to build in support for it. One more thing: AGP 8x is necessary now for graphics.
Totally Life!
ALL replies
'G5' is Apples name for their next generation CPU, whoever or whatever it turns out to be. They are not different beasts, they are different names.
Motorola is entirely irrelevant regarding the 970
2005 date must have been plucked from your bucket like vagina (I assume you are female), as IBM has said nothing concrete about 2ghz+ processors. Apple will have made sure of this.
Putting 'bzzzt' in your posts makes you sound like spiteful cunt who deserves a boot to the mouth
Intel are not IBM, the fact they haven't got a 1ghz bus yet is irrelevant. Granted, it does seem a little high, but even so, I'd love to hear your explanation of why it is impossible
Where do Apple say they are phasing out nVidia cards?
Have you seen many firewire keyboards or mice around? Many cheap digi-cams that support firewire? I dont think so. That is why Apple have USB. They have USB2 because it is out there and people will want to use USB2 devices
Apples are as much music machines as graphics machines, take a look at the high-end music software for Mac in comparison to a PC. Anyway, my fucking 2 year old minidisc walkman has optical output, as does just about every other modern digital audio device. They aren't some new-fangled technology.
I count a few improbables, but no impossibles.
A relevant picture can still be found on an Akamai Mirror (taken from an write-up here
My 2 * 1.42 powermac has an EHCI controler (whatever that is called USB 2, 2.5 etc). All the "FW800" powermacs have, I guess apple just coud'nt get supplies of the old OHCI ones anymore.
It is disabled by default by OpenFirmware, but can be kicked into life if you use linux and work just fine then.
You clearly have no idea.
G5 is a marketing name. Apple gave the processors that name, not Motorola or IBM (who make G3's). To Moto, it's a 7450, 7455 and other odd numbers. G5 makes sense to consumers, because they see it as one more than G4. Call it a 970 and you'll have to call it a 970-B, 980 etc over the next year as IBM update the chip.
These were also taken from Apple's online store and they do match their usual font, colour etc.
Firewire 400 is so you can plug your 400 devices into that and your 800 ones into the other one. Otherwise an 800 firewire hub has all it's devices slowed down to 400 as soon as you put a 400 device into it. This is exactly the same as the current models.
You'll see them on Monday.
Uhh...aren't PCs at a 900MHZ bus right now? That's only 100MHZ away from 1GHZ.
Also, Apple have a long standing habit of using Firewire instead of USB 2.0. I take this as one point impossible
That would explain my iBooks 2 USB ports and 1 firewire port. You seem to forget that Apple also has a habit (which severely predates the PC world) of including lots of USB)
Only one FW800 port? Why would Apple stick with FireWire 400 anyway? I mark this impossible
There aren't a lot of FW800 devices out yet. There are tons of FW400. That's why they left the 400 ports and only added 1 FW800.
Bad grammar, but optical audio in a graphics machine? I'm sorry but this sounds like wishful thinking. One more point impossible.
This may come as a shock, but some people apparently use Macs for audio work too! For instance the ENTIRE FUCKING MUSIC INDUSTRY.
In total, that's 4 and a half impossible features out of ten. If you're waiting on this machine, you'll be waiting a LONG time people.
I'm sorry, but you are so out of it that I'm bookmarking your post, and when these machines are announced I will be sure to post it all over the slashdot story
"It's not a G5, it's a PPC970, completely different beasts."
Apple can call it whatever they want. It's next generation so it's G5.
"1GHz bus? gimme a break. Intel hasn't yet reached this. Two points impossible"
So what if Intel isn't there yet? The 970 bus scales with the CPU (1/2 the CPU clockrate). 1GHz for a 2GHz CPU is thus not impossible.
You define what to believe and what not if someone types "one, two, three" instead of "1, 2, 3"? Oh, what great intellect.
...and deliberately put up fantasy specifications that Apple won't be able to meet?
No, I don't really believe this... but I sure hope the leak was correct, and that the posted material represents what engineering/manufacturing/IBM actually came up with, and not what Steve Jobs wanted (and had website material prepared for) but couldn't quite get.
One thing is for sure: if you CAN'T buy a dual 2 GHz 970 by, say, Fall, an awful lot of people are now going to be awfully disappointed.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
of configuring and building a PC with the money these Macs will cost. The specs sure sound great, too bad that I cannot get warm with Jaguar/Macs (and lack the money for such a machine).
Sorry, I was thinking of IBM's own specsheet for the PPC970 which states a bus speed of 900MHZ. So Apple's 1GHZ bus speed claim is highly probable.
That's simply not thrue any more. With the new OS X kernel you can now run most *nix programs. I think you can even use debian's apt-get.
Here's something for you...I have been a PC user since high school (I had Apple II's in elementary). I currently have a 500 mhz PC which still performs acceptably in all categories (except games). I WANT to switch, but have been waiting for Monday's announcements. Considering my 500 mhz PC...wouldn't a 1Ghz imac seem fast or, at a minimum, comparable to my PC's performance???
"It's not a G5, it's a PPC970, completely different beasts. Not to mention neither Motorola or IBM have 2GHz chips in their roadmap until 2005. Bzzzt One point impossible" ..And a G4 is a MPC7455, The Gx processor name is something apple marketing came up with and not Motorola. They want to make things as simple as possible for their users to diferenciate modles of processors. Heck, chances are if Apple switched to x86 they would still refer to them a Gx.
"1GHz bus? gimme a break. Intel hasn't yet reached this. Two points impossible"
If the chip supports it chances are Apple will. However, looking at that statment it may not neciserily mean that current modles support 1ghz.
"Almost believable, but for the moment Apple are phasing out the use of NVIDIA cards in their machines. I highly doubt they'll be used. Half a point impossible"
This is just untrue. Apple may not be using Nividia as the default install, however thier cards have always been avilible (since nividia supported the mac). Both cards manufacturers support 8x AGP. Doesn't take a PhD to figure out that it will probably be the same way here.
"The rest of Apples site would say "3 USB Ports" not "Three". Also, Apple have a long standing habit of using Firewire instead of USB 2.0. I take this as one point impossible"
USB 2.0 is not the same as Firewire. Just because they haven't upgraded to 2.0 doesn't mean they will never.
"Once again use of the verbal "One" instead of the numeric. Only one FW800 port? Why would Apple stick with FireWire 400 anyway? I mark this impossible"
Most likely because they are using the same controller that is currently used in the G4s which ironicly enough supports...... 1 Firewire 800 and 2 Firewire 400. Same argument could be used about the exsisting hardware.
"Optical and analog audio in and out"
Powermacs allready have Digital out. Powermacs also have always had some of the best quality sound hardware on board seen anywhere. While Apple did drop input not long ago to their Powermac series, I assume most of the features came from the hardware Codec they are using that they decided to include hardware interfaces for.
It's not a G5, it's a PPC970, completely different beasts. Not to mention neither Motorola or IBM have 2GHz chips in their roadmap until 2005. Bzzzt One point impossible
PPC Roadmap talks about 1.8Ghz in the now terms so a slight overclock or a push to development could give the 2GHz. G5 is the BRAND name from Apple not the processor name.
1GHz bus? gimme a break. Intel hasn't yet reached this. Two points impossible
INTEL hasn't done 1GHz Bus... so therefore IBM maker of some of the worlds largest super computers couldn't HOPE to match them.
The rest of Apples site would say "3 USB Ports" not "Three". Also, Apple have a long standing habit of using Firewire instead of USB 2.0. I take this as one point impossible
Beyond the grammar flame.... Apple pioneered the use of USB but went for Firewire as a better technology. All Macs have USB 1.1 ports already.
Bad grammar, but optical audio in a graphics machine? I'm sorry but this sounds like wishful thinking. One more point impossible
Bloody hell this really is someone who doesn't understand technology... the PLAYSTATION 2 has Optical Out because the SOUND is better. This is aimed at graphic designers et al who LOVE to annoy offices by playing bizarre CD's at large volume. If a PS2 has it why the hell wouldn't an Apple ?
The rest are indicative of a lack of understanding of how standards like FW400 & 800 interact and the relative costs of such devices and availability (how many video cameras require FW800)
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
After all the whining out there about wether this is a hoax, marketing hype or a simple mistake let's not forget that if this is true it truly is insanely great news.
Two 970's at 2 GHz with bus bandwith! Earlier (leaked) numbers of tests put the 970 at between 1.5 and 2.5 times as fast as a pentium 4. That makes these machines the equivalent of a 6-10 GHz machine. Now of course, we'll have to wait and see and two procs are not doubly as efficient as one but great news this would be nonetheless.
Oh yeah.
What is your problem? Can't you think of anyhting better to do than to post this garbage every time Apple news surfaces?
"Do some reading on the 970. Its bus is clocked at 1/4 the speed of the processor, DDR. So the effective bus speed of the 2 GHz version is 1 GHz."
1/4 of 2 GHz is not 1 Ghz you moron!
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
The specs refer to 3 PCI-X slots...
However, here... or better : here, it sounds like it is not yet ready...
But well, on the other hand, Apple was using 802.11g before the spec actually got approved, so why not...
Trolling using another account since 2005.
I bet Jobs shit his pants.
Kevin Fox
Apple are using the new kit internally, in the web site department. And it's just too damn fast!
SCO employee? Check out the bounty
Apple is more likely to use and market the USB bus as USB 2 now that FW 800 is on-board. Once again with a nit-picky terminology complaint. Why wouldn't Apple put FW 400 and 800 on a computer? The PB G4 17" has both. The connectors are different. Your iPod doesn't have a FW 800 connector (yet). Most of your FW periferals are still 400. Why wouldn't they include both, especially since the 400 chipset is probably less expensive. So this seems reasonable to you? So, (1) you're complaining about grammar (!!), and (2) you think the folks who brought the tortured but technically legal "Think Different" wouldn't say this? Powermacs aren't just "graphics" machines. They are professional production machines for a number of different industries, including music and cinema. In both of those categories sound is very important. The optical in and out is something likely to be related to other announcements.
And anyone who thinks these specs would be deliberately leaked three days before a "Stevenote" doesn't understand Apple.
"and we can see how much his credentials stack up against someone in charge of Apple and Pixar."
I'll bet when Apple does well, you feel personally vindicated. You need for something to do well, because of the lack of accomplishment of your life.
I'd just remind you that a computer is just a computer, and that if you feel special attachment to a brand, its a sickness.
But at least its a hobby, so I guess apple really *is* special, at least to you.
It's not a G5, it's a PPC970, completely different beasts. Not to mention neither Motorola or IBM have 2GHz chips in their roadmap until 2005. Bzzzt One point impossible
Bzzt. Wrong.
G3 and G4 are both Apple marketing terms, not CPU specifications from IBM or Moto.
IBM was expecting low yields of the 2ghz chip but it was always on the roadmap for this year... or have you not been paying attention?
I'm writing this on a Powerbook G4, not a Powerbook 7450 (PPC 7450 is Motos term for the cpu running this beastie).
1GHz bus? gimme a break. Intel hasn't yet reached this. Two points impossible
Bzzt. Wrong. One word for you:
Hypertransport.org
The FSB runs at half the clockspeed of the CPU. A dual 2ghz 970 would have FSB of 1ghz.
The rest of Apples site would say "3 USB Ports" not "Three". Also, Apple have a long standing habit of using Firewire instead of USB 2.0. I take this as one point impossible
The current G4s ship with USB 2.0 chipsets. Firewire and USB2 are NOT in competition. THey have different applications. If you don't belive me, then I ask you to point to a USB2 uncompressed SDI interface? Oh. YOu can't? Shit.
Once again use of the verbal "One" instead of the numeric. Only one FW800 port? Why would Apple stick with FireWire 400 anyway? I mark this impossible
My dual 1.4ghz G4 has a FW800 port and two FW400s. FW800 is a different physical interface than FW400. I'm sure the chipset is also slightlly more expensive.
Bad grammar, but optical audio in a graphics machine? I'm sorry but this sounds like wishful thinking. One more point impossible.
Marketing has always made a habit of playing with grammar.
Macs are not just graphics machine. In fact, the dual 1.4ghz mentioned above is primarily an audio workstation. It has digital audio out already on board.
Optical in/out is a surprise, but not unlikely - it has its advantages.
This is accurate. Like it or not. Apple is back in town where it belongs - on the top.
Great marketing idea? Not for G4 sales. Apple is going to have put some amazing spin on this one to prevent their G4 sales or prices from plummeting throught the floor. About the only thing I can think of is they will have to say the G5 prices will be real high initially. This would hurt early G5 sales but if you release G5 early while the supply stream was still contrained then this wouldn't hurt anything. Then when the G4s are sold out and G5s are plentiful, drop the prices on the G5s.
Wow let's take this one point at a time...
It's not a G5, it's a PPC970, completely different beasts. Not to mention neither Motorola or IBM have 2GHz chips in their roadmap until 2005. Bzzzt One point impossible
Errr... From a marketing perspective G5 is better then 970, it's also consistant with how Apple have named PPC processors in the past, so Bzzzt minnus one for you Plus one for Apple.
1GHz bus? gimme a break. Intel hasn't yet reached this. Two points impossible
Wow! I don't know where to begin with this one. If you really understood anything you were talking about you would know two things: 1. The 970 bus speed runs 1/2 the speed of the processor, so for a 2Ghz Processor, 1 Ghz sounds about right. 2. WTF does Intel have to do with anything? Apple has worked with AMD on the Hypertrasport BUS which should (and apparently does) toast Intel (And Intel has been slower then most with BUS speed lately anyway, even little VIA who have a fraction of the budget of Intel/AMD/ or Apple
The rest of Apples site would say "3 USB Ports" not "Three". Also, Apple have a long standing habit of using Firewire instead of USB 2.0. I take this as one point impossible
Apple was first with USB, and many many many Apple peripherals use USB (i.e. Keyboard and Mouse to name a few important ones). The cost of USB 1.1 vs 2.0 is about nothing so it's a no brainer to use USB 2.0. Also Since you seem to have grammatical issues the image (see below) "three" is grammatically correct "3" isn't.
Almost believable, but for the moment Apple are phasing out the use of NVIDIA cards in their machines. I highly doubt they'll be used. Half a point impossible
Apple isn't phasing out Nvidia, Have you read the specs for the newest Powerbooks? They use Nvidia instead of tradtional ATI. Apple has offered choice in desktop G4 systems for awhile. (It's Microsoft who are phasing out Nvidia in the next XBox)
Once again use of the verbal "One" instead of the numeric. Only one FW800 port? Why would Apple stick with FireWire 400 anyway? I mark this impossible
You and your verbal numbers... get a life. I don't know where you are coming from on this one. The Apple spes are perfectly logical and similar to the latest 17" PowerBooks
Bad grammar, but optical audio in a graphics machine? I'm sorry but this sounds like wishful thinking. One more point impossible
In a graphics machine? Well they are great at graphics, so I'll give you that, but have you ever heard of Digidesign ProTools? How about Apple's own Logic? How about the fact Apple has an entire segment devoted to Music right off there home page (and only part of it it the music store and iPod)? Apple is doing Music big time, and at a very high professional level, optical audio is an unexpected, but very logical addition to the G5
Hmm... there go your 4 1/2 half impossible points (or whatever? heck this is almost desperate... are you the person from Apple who accidently posted this in the first place and this is a lame attempt to counteract the damage before Steve fires your ass?)
--- Nothing To See Here ---
Why do you call it a graphics machine? You are aware the Apple is making a major push in the pro music market, right? (The new AudioUnits plugin standard, etc.)
"He's saying that they already had some images done up and perhaps he just copied the wrong one"
Apparently, all your thoughts about how web sites are run revolve around the experience you had running your own Yu-Gi-Oh! web site last year.
Sites don't *accidently* put the wrong image up; the image wouldn't be loaded yet on the production servers.
But you believe what you want if you think it somehow validates you.
Any way I think a fact that a lot of people are over looking is the 1 gig system bus speed claim. As an IT assistant for a Mac based network, this bit makes me run around in circles with a stupid grin on my face!
Appleâ(TM)s various CPUâ(TM)s have always been hampered by shitty bus speeds, so all those people going âoe2 Gighertz is nothingâ should take a pause. IMO current G4 CPUâ(TM)s could trash most Intel or AMD processors if they only had the same ninja fast system buses at their pins disposal.
You're right, CD is superior to minidisc in terms of quality. A lot of consumers probably wouldn't be able to hear a huge difference. The MD and old Philips DCC were designed as cassette tape replacement, not usurping CD.
:)
It's not just minidiscs that use optical. My Fostex digital multitrack also has an optical in and out. They are a little passe these days, but 5-10 years ago, many pro or semi-pro audio gear had them. I guess enough of 'em still do
"That makes these machines the equivalent of a 6-10 GHz machine."
I'll bet you're the last person who believes G4's are faster than P4's at the same clock rate.
After all, to admit otherwise would be to also admit that Macs are too expensive.
-Phasing out NVidia doesn't mean that they aren't ever using them, it means slowly replacing them. This first offering of the G5 (Apple's name for the chip whether or not it is what the manufacturers want to call it that) is quite likely to still ship with a mix of NVidia and ATI cards. 1 point possible.
-1 GHz bus. IBM listed a 900 MHz bus as it's expected bus speed but only a 1.8 GHz processor. Is it possible that they have both been tweaked thus enabling the better specs? I think so. 2 points possible.
-USB 2.0 is the standard now, and Apple has been resisting it long enough. It makes sense that they would upgrade now. 1 point possible.
-FireWire 400. Why stick with this? Good question. I think I agree with you here since the 800 ports would be backwards compatible with any 400 device. 1 point impossible
I also agree with your "possible" specs for the serial ATA, 8GB DDR and bluetooth/airport support. 3 points possible. So from my perspective it is a possible 7 out of 8.
bkr
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
It looks like they are finally caught up with PC's from 2001!!!! Well.. except for the prices which are still priced at 1995 prices!!!
Way to go Apple!!!!!
I think, considering recent discussions on USB, anybody can claim USB 2.0 functionality. Apparently, merely existing in the same physical plane of existence as a USB plug is enough for the USB consortium to award you a logo.
It just might be the logo with the blue thing at the bottom and no red on top. Because that makes sense.
Best read in good ol' Monaco 9 point.
Can somebody please explain this to me? Doesn't good old CD audio have greater-than-or-equal quality to any format supported by Minidisc players? Because more devices than just lossy minidiscs use optical s/pdif. Remember, lots of macs are used in Pro Audio. -sam
I was just here, where did I go?
Be the guy in the audience to get a camera trown at you by wearing the G5-specs T-shirts !
"I tend to think of OS X as Linux with QA and Taste", James Gosling, creator of Java
Apparently, some enterprising young soul traced down the Akamai image and as of 20 June 2003, 9:00 am EST, that image is still up. Basically, this means the image is real enough to have Akamai's machines serve it up. (Akamai provides content delivery services to Apple)
And in case someone at Apple and Akamai wake up enough to pull the Akamai content, here's my mirror. Think of it as education free use.
(Dear, Mr. Jobs. Please don't sic your lawyers on me. You'll find I'm very amenable were I to receive "assistance" with my imminent alBook purchase.) ;-)
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And if they're wanting to create a media creation and/or editing system, then of course they would have optical in/out.
Precisely, Macs are also used extensively in the Pro Audio market, and Apple has been strengthening their position in the field over the past year, their purchase of eMagic. It only makes sense that they would include some features that would make the new Macs more attractive to this segment of their customer base. Though why you'd use optical in a pro-setting is beyond me. -sam
I was just here, where did I go?
a beowulf cluster of these?
"The best laid plans of mice and men gang oft agley..." - ROBERT BURNS
I seriously doubt this was a "strategic leak" to use the phrase from the Ginger book excerpt. When the image started hitting the web (MacRumors, Ars forums, MacMinute, iChat) Apple quickly took the entire Apple Store down in the U.S. and Canada and perhaps elsewhere. That's an expensive way to steal your own thunder - surely if they wanted to leak this information the could have found a cheaper way to do it. And this leak certainly diminishes the imact of the Monday keynote broadcast. I bet Steve Jobs popped a vein or two when he heard about it...
I said 1/4 of 2 GHz *DDR* (Double Data Rate). So the bus is 500 MHz *DDR*, or an effective clockspeed of 1 GHz. Watch who you're calling a moron.
Rebeka Thomas, eh? Are you that knockout that works for Return Path?
Got carried away and didn't look closely at the images. Sorry folks.
:-(
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I can buy dual 3.06 GHZ Hypertransport P4's for $2k less, so nyah!
Sorry...I couldn't resist.
minidisc is actually low quality(compressed 32KHz)...not even CD quality(44.1KHz).
the reason they are using optical s/pdif as oppossed to coax s/pdif is for surround sound and that most digital audio equipment tends to use the optical format over the coax format
the history of the world
...buying tens of thousands of dollars in new software! i buy computers to match the software i use. designing an a windows machine is not fun. color control, type control, established standards... ymmv!
macs have always been highly priced, but i have found that the value is pretty good. we replace our machines every other year or so, but i have an osx (the first one) server from 1999. new scci and hard drives, off it goes. but on a hundred or two thousand per year, per station, i'm not complaining about a grand or two!
No offense, but anyone who thinks it was a mistake or leak doesn't understand marketing.
And whomever would write something like that about an internal Apple leak doesn't understand Steve Jobs.
I'm sure heads rolled on this one...especially if they're to be officially announced on Monday at WWDC (which is likely).
Okay, a quick counter to most of your points...
Apple has called their PCs G-number like Intel calls their Pentiums. You expect them to give up that branding over a simple technicality? Not bloody likely. That G5 means a PowerPC 970 chip inside means very little to marketing. It's definately the next generation of chip though, so increment the number accordingly.
1.0Ghz FSB impossible? Actually the PPC970 calls for a 0.9Ghz FSB. Sounds like a simple case of overclocking for their super-top-of-the-line machine, something video card makers have been doing for years now.
Now, what's to say they'll actually USE that AGP slot by default? No offense, but even Apple has to recognize that all the super-deluxe, top-of-the-line video cards use AGP slots now. And what about ATI, or Matrox? Both offer Mac-compatable video cards, and both require AGP slots to be used. Apple's not about to kick all three of the major video-card makers completely out of their ballpark, phasing NVidia out or not.
And apparently you missed the feature recently here on /. about USB 2.0 meaning jack squat thanks to the recent bait-and-switch by the USB association? I note there's no 'Hi-Speed' mark by the USB 2.0 ports listed. Sounds like 1.1 to me, with Marketing wiggling their way in early.
I won't touch on the 'one versus 1' debate though. The image may have been mis-numbered on an upload, so we may have seen a sneak-peak at a revamped online store with the image to boot. It's hardly unfeasable to have a completely new layout accompany a major product announcement. The car makers do that all the time when they revamp their website to coincide with new product cycles, why not the computer makers too? Especially one as noisy in the industry as Apple? :-)
Anyways, that's enough from me... WolfWings out...
Not true. The 400 devices will talk at S400 and the 800 devices will use S800. It doens't slow the whole bus down.
full speed pr high speed.... damn lameness filter. ugh.. killing time.....
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
Well, ok, maybe in the bigger consumer arean but I've done some pro studio audio and up until the past few years, if you wanted high end quality audio, you did it on a Mac. ProTools et.al, all debuted on the Mac. In fact, my friends studio - of which over the years we tried converting to Windoze multitrack - went back to a Mac and churned out better sounding projects.
There are many uses in non-consumer audio for optical i/o. I mean, shit, my cheap little Shuttle Spacewalker has a coinnector card for optical audio. For them to include it now is obviously smart since we know they're also targeting more musicians (specifically dj's) now as well as graphics people.
Frankly, this guys 'impossible' post is a lot of bullshit for many reasons listed above and throughout.
I now must find a way to ditch my PB G4 1ghz. G5, here I come! *drools*
please read the article.
do wintel/amd systems feature a 900MHz or a 1GHz system bus? not that Ive seen, so how is this half as fast as wintel/amd?
the history of the world
"There are motherboards with optical audio in and out built in, and you can buy PCI sound cards with optical audio built in for less than $50. I bought a Gamesourround Fortissimo II more than a year ago for less than $40, and it's got optical in and out."
:P
Unfortunately, this is true. I spent $500 on an audio card two years ago just because it had decent Optical on it...Last year, I bought an MAudio 2496 for my editing machine for a little over $100 -- not Optical, but coax digital, but it could handle 5.1 Dolby.
At this point, it would be moronic NOT to offer some sort of digital connection -- especially on a Mac -- then again I'm a little biased because EVERYONE I know with a Mac is a professional musician or attaining to be one
The rumors were a few months ago that Apple was going to release a Machine with 5 Outputs for Surround...I wonder if the Optical on this is going to encode Dolby Digital as well and keep this rumor true.
clif
Yah, aren't MDs 12-bit, AAC 22khz audio? The compression works really well and for the average consumer, they won't notice the diff. But, obviously, if your into your frequencies, then you will notice a loss of dynamics.
As other functions...
How Long can you Frag me in RtCW: Enemy Territory? Oh, that's right there isn't a Mac client yet... Might never be one, but there might soon, it would be nice to see.
How about Medal of Honor: Allied Assault? There isn't a Mac Client for that either...
What of Star Wars Galaxies, can you join me in that game? Not unless there is an ultra secret Mac Client hidden out there in the ether.
Macs aren't for gaming. Windows machines are.
The Mac is MUCH better for graphics arts and a plethora of other things as well... I don't do those things often and never professionally.
I can also purchase the spare battery that will sit in the laptop at the same time as the main battery that will double my running time. It's not cheap, but it will make the system run longer...
Having to "fend of women" isn't a reason to own a laptop. That's not a feature at all. Sure, those Titanium power books look nice, but so does the high-end Inspiron laptops. I love that blue color that comes standard with that machine.
I like the flexibility of being able to run Windows software (mostly games) and the ability to run Linux on the same machine.
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
Some of your analysis is negated by looking at Apple's marjeting house style a bit more closely.
The rest of Apples site would say "3 USB Ports" not "Three". Also, Apple have a long standing habit of using Firewire instead of USB 2.0. I take this as one point impossible
Apple uses words for numbers less then 10 all over the place. This is generally considered good style in old-fashioned publishing circles (that is, those who believe they exist to create something that people will read, rather than something that fills the space between the ads).
For example, from the first Apple page I bothered to examine (http://www.apple.com/powermac/specs.html)
"Four 3.5-inch hard drive expansion bays"
"Four DIMM slots"
"One AGP 4X slot with graphics card installed"
and so on.
Off the style subject, as Apple now ships USB 2.0-capable iPods, it's not hard to believe USB 2.0 PowerMacs.
optical audio in a graphics machine?
Macs are widely used in professional audio circles. Go hang out in any Mac IRC channel - wall-to-wall musos.
Steve jobs releases internet death squads of robotic Richad Simmonses to expunge any trace of the screw up. In fact this post of is expected to be erased from history later today. Film at 11.
can we say render machine? renderman package being ported over to OS X, maya, and 8GB of ram would be fun. would be nice to see pixar go Mac. drooooool.
minidiscs use a compressed 32KHz stream, not 22KHz.
not sure of the bit-rate
the history of the world
When Sengan used to post.. Now there was a real asshat :D
A witty saying proves you are wittier than the next guy.
You made the same mistake I did. Look more closely, those are G4 processors, not G5. This is a graphic of Apple's current offering.
"I hate giving bad news to good people."
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While I'd love to believe that Apple is soon coming out with 970 based machines, these two items in particular are the Joe Slashdot wet-dream wishlist items. Apple will go with the same drives you can get in an Xserve today, and I'd be pretty surprised if the jumped on board PCI-X. The fact is, someone not related to Apple just sat at their keyboard, and tried to make a spec which seemed believable yet got all the Joe Slashdot Apple fanboys hot-and-bothered.
Furthermore, as I'm sure has been mentioned before, this is absolutely not how Apple's marketing engine works. They keep the upcoming hardware stricktly under wraps to discourage the wait-until-the-next-machine-comes-out mentality. They are a profitable company, and they'd like to keep it that way. The way for them to do this is to entice you to buy a machine today.
Yes, I'm still a junky. Are you still a bitch?
DDR = double-pumped. The true bus speed is 1/4 the processor speed, and it sends signals on the high and low points of each cycle, so that doubles the effective speed, meaning 1/2.
Moron.
These are not the 64-bit procs right? Still 32? Can someone clarify that?
I've been reading that there would be a 970 that would run at 64, but surely if this was it they'd be hyping that right? So is there no 64-bit 970 or are these just not it or ?
FireWire 400. Why stick with this? Good question. I think I agree with you here since the 800 ports would be backwards compatible with any 400 device. 1 point impossible
Actually, I can see why they'd want to keep 400s. The 800 connector is different from the standard 400 cable, and even with the availability of adapters to convert from 400->800, it's still easier for them to simply include 400s on the computer so people who buy it can plug their devices in as soon as they assemble the computer, rather than having to go out and buy a special cable just to use their cameras, etc.
Want Slashdot headlines on your site? Try SlashHead
so go back to your Win-Dell and reboot, will ya?
You are going to look really silly come Monday. Say your not Dovrak, are you?
> - Up to 1GHz processor bus
> 1GHz bus? gimme a break. Intel hasn't yet reached this. Two points impossible
I have a 128 & 512 bus on some of my elder DEC Alpha machines that come from the '90s.
Time = Advancement in Technology
Intel owns most of the old DEC stuff except for what Samsung maintained.
+ 2 points (Real Possible)
If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
I suspect someone hacked the site.
I will be absolutely delighted to eat my words if I'm proven wrong. But I'm not gonna set myself up for a fall by expecting machines with these specs.
When all you have is an axe, everything looks like a grindstone.
Nice troll. Very well done. It almost reminds me of some of the classic /. trolls.. J, is that you? M.
Er, sorry if I wasn't totally clear, but I was puzzled about minidiscs being described as high qualty audio, when CDs are what most people listen to.
[Although of course you are correct -- S/PDIF is superior to analog connections whether you are using CDs, Minidisc, or just about anything.]
At least - not yet. I just don't have a reason too.
Specs look great. The only thing that might change my mind is a port of these 4 very, very important productivity applications:
Half-Life 2 - used to train new employees in how to survive a natural accident.
Doom III - used to train marines how to survive an unnatural accident.
Deus Ex II - used to inform people on the use of nanotechnology.
Thief III - a history lesson on how Victorian England might have evolved if magic was real and steam-driven robots worked.
Obviously, these very important production apps would require the power that the P970 can bring. (Oh, I'm sure they'd run on my current G4 867/Geforce 4 MX, but who wants to take a chance?)
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
The main reason that I'll be waiting for is the ability to be able to put together a pretty good system for $600. I love MacOS, but until they go after the low end, there are a lot of us who will keep dual-booting linux (or BSD) and windows. No troll or flame here, but isn't it about time that Apple offered a Mac for less than $1000 that isn't completely ancient (ie, no 600 MHz iMac please). Why do they still completely forsake the low end?
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
The screenshot font, color and layout do NOT match that of anywhere else on the Apple site
Sorry bob. I was on the Apple web site last night and caught this before even it appeared on the rumor sites. I even have a screen snapshot of the entire window.
This is genuine material. The entire page spoke of the current G4 line, but the small quick spec list next to a G4 machine photo actually listed the new G5 specs.
Now, is it a genuine mistake? I would tend to believe so, as Jobs is really pissy about keeping his secret punches for the keynote.
Mind you, his big secret may be the new 15.4 inch rumored laptop. There was even talk of a dual G5 17" laptop, but I give little credence to that.
I agree with many of the previous posters: no way was this a deliberate leak, because that is the opposite of Apple's style. I believe the specs though.
The three key issues for me are: exactly how fast, exactly how much, and what will be in the laptops? I'd like to see some G5 vs P4 vs Opteron benchmarks, but based on the rumourmill I think the dual G5 will be a beast. Of course, the rumourmill is mainly populated by the Apple faithful which makes me rather wary, but still, it looks promising.
At least one rumour claimed prices would go down compared to G4s, which I think is rather unlikely although not I guess out of the question -- if Apple decided they want a much bigger chunk of the market, aggressive price cutting at the same time as releasing a new model that for the first time in four years is as fast as the competition would certainly set things in motion with a bang.
As for the new 15.4" powerbooks, which look pretty likely, I'm betting on a G4 for them. Although the 970, from what I hear, is a very low power chip, and after all it*is* the year of the laptop... Hmm, I dunno.
In any event, I wonder if I'll be able to replace my main Debian workstation with a G5 next week. Guess I'll have to wait and see some prices!
You win again, gravity!
Hmm, why not ask the emperor himself?
They Went Plaid!!!
Worlds fastest personal computer
:)
I for one hopes they run the same sort of commercials that they did when they introduced the G3
I fought the corporate America, and the corporate America bought the law.
Here are the two images side-by-side, Akamai's and Thinksecret's.
The images have quite different "feels". I'll leave speculation about the provenance of Thinksecret's image to the experts.
blog
Could this be why Microsoft really bought Connectix?
If there are going to Mac's that can run Windows faster than most current x86 machines, they want a piece of it.
My speculation: The 'optical audio' that this ad touts is an implementation of Yamaha's mLAN, a joint project between Apple and Yamaha begun in 1999.
mLAN essentially allows the transfer of all audio-related signals - be they MIDI, audio, whatever - over 1 firewire cable.
yamaha press release, mlan, 2000 [opens in new window]
Now, why would Apple release a G5-based PPC with a dedicated mLAN port? I think Apple's hiring of Doug Wyatt - the guy who invented MIDI Timecode at Opcode - as well as Apple's aquisition of eMagic - in addition to their collaboration with Yamaha on the mLAN spec - would give Apple every incentive to put an 'mLAN' port on the back of their computer, even if it is only another firewire port.
Keep in mind that OSX has MIDI capability built-in - unlike any other OS. ALso, with the addition of a simple mLAN port, Apple can now state that their PPC is music-production ready right out of the box.
Doug Wyatt hired by apple
eMagic Corporate info
http://homepage.mac.com/olliewagner/as.jpg how about this screen shot ?
As I recall, apple destroyed all the Cube marketing material with mention of ATI cards, and all the Cubes with ATI cards in them were opened up and swapped out with nvidia cards, and didn't make them available for another 3 months.
Steve took it pretty badly, to say the least. Apple does not tolerate leaks. If this was promotional, there would have been more than just one graphic.
Could the G5 be the reason there is a shortage of Opteron motherboards on the market right now? Having used up most available hypertransport chipsets?
Just replying to obliterate my down mod of the parent comment. It's an interesting opinion, and should be higher than -1. At the time of the downmod, it was at +5 which was too high IMO.
If you can't afford a $20 logitech optical scroll wheel mouse, then you just really need to quityerbitchen. WTF are you doing with a Mac if you can't afford a mouse?
You can't moderate a story you've commented on.
Fool.
G4s don't have soundcards. They have built-in audio chipsets. The biggest problem I've had is that many of the G4 desktop machines have had no analog audio in & I've had to use a Korg1212 or Onkyo analogusb box.
Alison
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." - Albert Einstein
I thought ATRAC compression was 16 bit/44.1k? Course i'm more of a DAT user, so what do I know. -sam
I was just here, where did I go?
I thought it said:
"Apple Marketing Hype Powers New Macs."
That is more believeable than the G5 actually appearing.
Lump lingered last in line for brains, and the ones she got were sorta rotten and insane.
I do.
makes complete sense
Wow! You're still sitting there? I remember reading this exact same post a few weeks ago. That is a long time to transfer a 17meg file.
You're obviously right about Macs being cr*p. As soon as I get home, I'm going to throw mine away.
I can't believe that I used to like my Mac.
This news article seems to confirm the rumors http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/613 2089.htm
I have a two button wireless mouse with a wheel and the wheel works, the right mouse button pops up menus and the left mouse button selects and drags.
The one button mouse is only an issue if you drink all of and only Steve's kool-aid. The OS supports the hardware. And for the $39 it cost me, it was well worth it.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
No offense, but anyone who thinks it was a mistake or leak doesn't understand marketing.
No offense, Michael, but you pretty clearly don't understand marketing. There's no way this was intentional.
Why? Let's assume you have a big event coming up, with one big piece of news everyone is waiting for (in this case, G5s) and lots of other, smaller items that you want to talk about (Panther, whatever other goodies they have hidden). Remember, that big piece of news is the lure to get everyone watching the rest of the show.
So why on Earth would you spill the beans beforehand on your big item, so that some people would have gotten the info they wanted and will now not tune in to see the rest of it?
It's also media suicide! If the mainstream press reports today "Apple is announcing G5s," then they won't have the same level of "big news" to report on Monday, and reports of all the other stuff Apple desperately wants people to know about (like the goodies of Panther and their carefully-worded spin on the advantages of 64-bit-ness) won't get the same headline "punch" because the big cat's out of the bag. And Apple is a past master at manipulating the press, so they would never consciously make that kind of mistake.
Lastly, if they were going to deliberately leak it, why would they leak only specs (which geeks care about) and not something like a spec-free marketing piece written about the G5 which would get people quoting their words on its goodness, but still keep prospective buyers tuned in for the details? Again, not a smart move.
In sum, this was pretty clearly an actual goof by a (newly unemployed) Apple web tech. I trust the Slashdot staff to know their s**t about a variety of things ... but oh dear God is marketing NOT one of them.
"95% of all Slashdot
Watch Steve Jobs introduce an exciting new feature to his traditional WWDC keynote Monday when he disembowels the hapless Apple Store webmaster onstage and writes "Nice Job You Fucking Moron" across the floor with a combination of the man's blood and small intestine.
if it's taking 20 minutes to copy a 17 MB file, then it's not slow, it's broken. you know, how Win98 breaks too?
You'll like being a dude!
Now, watch Apple send cease-and-desist letters to the rumor sites reporting these "leaks" to add that dash of realism. If it's so secret that Apple has to send out the lawyers, it'll generate more buzz!
Hey, worked for the Harry Potter book...
N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
Ok, what is it with you user=6xxxxx noobies and the damn P paragraph breaks? If you want people to read your posts, then make them more readable.
One simple rule for its versus it's
No question it's a complete forgery. I mean, seriously, no floppy drive?! Windows hasn't yet reached this. Impossible!
Okay, so the only real questions left are:
1) What do they look like?
and the performance-relevant one:
2) Is it dual-channel DDR, or did Apple pull an Apple and make it single-channel? This is critical, as they do NOT want these things bandwidth-starved like Macs have traditionally been.
The hope meter is waaaaay up today, though.
Dell has 2 WUXGA (1920x1200) notebooks now, and HP has announced another. This is the minimum resolution I will consider when upgrading my laptop (IBM R30). Apple has the well respected WUXGA desktop display, I hope they don't wait too long to catch up in the notebook market as I am a potential switch customer.
Supposedly OS X 10.3 is going to allow even better resolution scaling, so there should be no problems with fonts being to small.
Dara
Apple has been using AGP for quite a few years. Even my iBook has AGP. The fact that it's 8 speed is what is new, but AFAIK, there aren't any cards that demand 8x AGP at the moment. Though doubtlessly it'll help.
3D engineering design and Mac's don't mix--which is why I don't have one
One, the PPC 970, you ignorant fuck.
One more example of how real life follows early 80s Satuday morning Sid and Marty Kroft shows.
That's good to know...
I made a mistake, it means I am human.
Perhaps that is why the Mac isn't nearly as popular as Windows and the plethora of companies that produce systems for that OS.
People always need diversions, games provide that and some diversions develop into powerful full blown industries that can make or break a platform.
An example of this would be smaller "sporty" foreign automobiles. Without the aftermarket "racing" parts the sales of such automobiles woldn't be quite as strong. There would also be no point in making a movie called "The Fast and Furious".
In a way it's to bad that the development of what the Mac has become has always sidelined the idea of really great games being released in a timely fashion. It is good that appears to be changing though...
Until then, is there even a MMORPG that even has a Mac client?
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
Could someone please explain why this could not have been the work of a hacker? I have heard the argument that Apple's website is "too complicated" and "too secure" but I haven't seen any details to back that up. My question may be a bit naive but how hard could it really be for someone to change a few lines of text?
"Imagine microsoft threatening a web site because it had specs on the next gen Windows. you'd have an apoleptic fit. You'd foam, you talk about how Bush administration encourages this behavior. In fact, I have a feeling you'd be so angry that you'd shit your pants and then blame microsoft."
This is not flame-bait; its an honest question that I guess makes mac-asses nervous and angry.
Know I hope they broadcast the show so we can all WOW together.
>> Had I been going to bed earlier every night? Have I been sleeping later? Has Tyler been in charge longer and l
"In the best case you get better then cumulative because you can avoiding some thread swapping."
Sure. But not in a general purpose computer. Its worthless to virtually everybody.
Its more about marketing than anything useful.
But hey, its apple, so its inherently good, right?
You're bitching about an 8600? What year is this?! Have you traveled through some timewarp to deliver this pathetic attack on 5+ year old macs? Where were you when 8600's were even slightly relevant on the market? Get with it! Try using my dual 800 g4 and tell me it isn't plenty fast.
Don't get all bent out of shape about the use of the verbal one. That's the format that the rest of the site uses. It's just the G4 page that uses the numeric, most likely because they needed to squeeze all the info onto one line.
I want the names of the people who would buy this. They must be sterlized so they can't breed.
Not that they could get a date, but something weird could happen to some poor hapless girl in a hot tub.
The PPC 970 bus is not HyperTransport (based on released information from IBM). It can however be easily interfaced to HT via a bridge chip. I do believe that the memory bus will not be HT but more direct, the rest will utilize HT as needed... we shall see.
The show will be broadcasted at:
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/wwdc03/
>> Had I been going to bed earlier every night? Have I been sleeping later? Has Tyler been in charge longer and l
No, IBM announced like 8 months ago that they were building the PowerPC 970 for Apple, among others. That's why everybody's just assuming that the new machines will be 970-based.
That will not be a live broadcast.
Apple will run a loop of the broadcast starting a few hours after the live presention is over.
As below, so above and beyond, I imagine drawn beyond the lines of reason. Push the envelope. Watch it bend.
This is interesting. I would like to know how the post is a troll. I would also like to know why it's redundant.
Redundant mods are designed to stop different people posting the same thing over and over, so you only have to read the same point once. At the time that was posted, I was the only one to make this point. So I don't see how it's redundant. If anything, it offers an opposing view, which should be discussed.
Troll mods are designed to hide posts from people who deliberately craft their posts to provoke the maximum number of people possible. They hold no real opinions of their own, it's just a game to them. I am not a troll.
I find it interesting to note that when I first saw this thread, a post laying out the authors scepticism about the validity of this was at +5 Interesting. Looking at the posting history of rebeka thomas showed that despite only having just signed up for an account, she (i will assume it's a she) had only ever been modded up, and in fact most posts had been modded up. Nonetheless, the post is now at -1 Interesting.
Why is "Overrated" used so often to mod down non-pro-Apple posts? The answer is because for some reason Overrated/Underrated is not metamoderated, so there is no punishment for abusing it. It also provides a convenient euphamism for "-1 I don't agree with this but it's not flamebait nor a troll".
It's too bad so many people are so sensitive about this issue. The fact is that Apple are a corporation, like any other. Mindless frothing and drooling over them or their products is naive, and will lead to disappoint or worse the day they turn around and screw you over. This has happened to Apple customers before, just like with any other company.
I expect as this is not pro Apple, this post will be moderated down. I find it interesting to note that the only time I ever get modded down, is when I post to Apple stories. The moderations received are normally not in proportion to the content of the post - simply put, any showing of distate for Apple, their products or their tactics, will get you modded down regardless of the validity of the post or history of the poster.
That is all. Think about it before you act.
great troll, nice job , looks like you really got those macinshite fags riled up with their incessant whining because they bought the brandâ hook line and sinker, too bad they probably don't understand branding (aka: the dream),marketing 101,product reinforcement and grass roots campaigns
good job Rebeka, props for speaking your real thoughts
No troll or flame here, but isn't it about time that Apple offered a Mac for less than $1000 that isn't completely ancient (ie, no 600 MHz iMac please).
How about an eMac, for $999 you get a 1 GHz G4, 17" monitor, combo drive, 60 GB HD...
Do some reading on the 970. Its bus is clocked at 1/4 the speed of the processor, DDR.
Er. No. It's a bus clocked at 1/2 the speed of the processor. Period. We're talking about the processor-to-main-fabric interconnect here, what Apple's going to call ApplePI. (For Apple Processor Interconnect or Interface.)
The first rule is that don't bother posting to Apple stories if you are not pro Apple. It doesn't matter how valid or interesting you think your points are, they won't be seen, or somebody will post a reply that doesn't address your original assertions and you'll be modded down, normally via Overrated or Redundant mods.
The second rule is that the more meta moderation you do, the more mod points you get. So, it's in your interests to spend your time meta moderating rather than posting to these stories, if you wish to have an impact on the discussion.
Finally, you might be wondering how you can get -1 Interesting, a seemingly impossible combination of score and adjective. Basically, Overrated/Underrated mods change the score, but not the associated word. Why? Dunno. Ask Taco. They also aren't metamoderated.
Good luck, and have fun! :)
When they say "optical and analog audio" they are refering to the newer fiber optic audio connectors that are now standard even on the cheapest home theater systems. this is for Dolby (5.1, 6.1 7.1) audio no doubt. it has nothing to do with video or graphics.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
'tard. You can't post and moderate in the same discussion.
Show me how you can run Windows (at full speed enough to play and host intense 3D FPS Games) as well as MacOSX. (On a Titanium Laptop, since that is what we are talking about.)
I know that it is possible to do that on a MacOSX running desktop system, but it is quite pricey to do and might be a little less expensive just to buy a low-end Windows running system instead...
That's the functionality I am talking about Running Windows and Linux on the same machine... On a Mac laptop, that isn't really possible, without losing serious performance.
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
Everyone seems to be focused on the specs, but for me the most important piece of text in the misbegotten graphic from the Apple Store kimono opening was the headline that preceded them:
"The world's fastest personal computer." Now, as David Letterman likes to say, that's something.
Apple hasn't been able to claim anything like that, with anything like a straight face, in a long, long time. The implication is that there will be a convincing display of this CPU prowess, and not just Jon Rubenstein talking about the length of his pipe, either. And I would bet it will involve something other than just Photoshop.
The speed perception issue has been holding Apple and OS X back - if the developers and then the tech are convinced this hobble has been removed from the camel's back legs, it will be a huge deal.
Love - the delusion that one woman differs from another. [H.L. Mencken]
I read through your post searching for any sort of good factual basis to your points. And aside from supposedly having friends who dumped their ibooks (shittiest of apples products anyways ... G3's) you've managed to provide a whole lot of FUD with no FACTS.
Now im not gonna present much more fact, but as to your "mac people make up your mind" crap, i will say this... Mac's have a tremendous advantage in OSX due to a highly crafted interface, which continues to improve at a rate not matched in Windows (though longhorn may change things in 2005), so to take that as a reason even without super-power for having a better system is more than enough for many. When coupled with intermitent periods of ACTUAL supirior hardware, then the advantages become compounded.
If i have a better OS AND better hardware, im gonna be damn happy. Few people contest the OS supiriority of OSX (especialy since 10.2)... there are those who simply don't like it, but on the whole you'll find most people power users or not prefer OSX to windows/linux varients in terms of usability and design. Under the hood, OSX is highly lauded for clean API's and relatively easy development comparitivly. However the end user doesn't give a shit. So whats left to debate when the OS is out of the question?
hardware
And when the mac crowd gets better hardware, they are going to take it to task against the PC users whove been citing it as a reason to call their platform weak.
In all fariness i doubt you've ever worked for extended periods on a fastt G4. If you had... you'd understand better.
I myself use all of these systems along with cisco IOS and a few others. If i could develop for IIS on a mac.... i'd have no reason short of office to use a windows machine. DOS sucks ass compared to the terminal in OSX, and linux GUI sucks ass compared to aqua/OSX.
now with kick-ass hardware the platform can finaly be great in most respects. (call me crazy, but id never serve off of a mac, dispite the awards xserve/xraid have garnered, just me)
--Idiots, Every single one of YOU, A flaming mass of conglomerated morons, hey wait a second, isnt that how RAID works?
Has anyone considered that the reason they leaked this might be that the real suprise is comming in the form of new powerbooks?
It's gotta be a fake, or at least somewhat suspect...
e cts/A ppleStore.woa/72102/wo/1w3fnYWXG4RC26yKdxo1rqvZkWG /0.0.7.1.0.5.13.0.1.1.3.0.7.6.1.1.0
o re.wo a/945/wo/lWxO724T1gsTimsepb/0.0.5.1.0.5.21.1.2.1.2 .0.0.1.0
= /arch ives/g5fullpage.gif&p=powermacg5
= /arch ives/g5specs.jpg&p=powermacg5
Since this 'error' appears to have arisen from simply uploading the wrong image, it's validity can be easily disproven.
The Sources:
[1] *** PowerMac G4 Buyers Page - Apple Store US ***
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObj
[2] *** PowerMac G4 Buyers Page - Apple Store UK ***
http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ukst
[3] *** 'Modded' G5 Buyers Page ***
http://www.thinksecret.com/cgi-bin/pic.cgi?i
[4] *** 'Modded' G5 GIF ***
http://www.thinksecret.com/cgi-bin/pic.cgi?i
The reasoning:
1. With reference to the G4 Buyers Page, the text on the US site reads 'Choose your PowerMac G4'. It is NOT prefixed by 'Step 1'. 'Step 1' does however appear on the UK site [2], but in this case you are urged to 'Select' and not 'Choose' your G4. The site image in question [3] appears to pertain to the US site.
2. As the error is supposedly attributable to an erroneous upload, saving the original specifications GIF image from source [1] will give an idea of the intended alignment of the GIFs. You can see that the current GIF is justified by its left edge to the banner text above (Choose your...). It is clear that the 'modded' GIF [4] would not justify with the original layout in [1] as depicted falsely in the claimed G5 page [3].
3. Furthermore, if the 'modded' GIF [4] was indeed uploaded in lieu of, there ought to be greater vertical separation from the banner text (Choose your...) and the specifications text. This is the case in [1], but not in [3].
4. I am sure Apple must have a few editorial guidelines to stick to. In this case, comparison of the editorial in the current spec image [1] and the 'modded' image [3] shows up the following typos or inconsistencies:
4a. 'The world's fastest' as opposed to 'The World's fastest'
4b. The use of hyphens to highlight specs, as opposed to the leading text format currently used [1], [2]
4c. Why are the processor speeds listed in ascending order? Typical Apple practice is to list from fastest to slowest (see iMac)
4d. Why are quantities specified by words, where they were previously specified by numerals - read 'three' USB 2.0 ports cf. '4' USB ports.
4e. AGP is referred to as 8X as opposed to 8x [note case]
Summary: intriguing and desirable specs, but inconsistent enough to make Monday the only real decider.
'nuff said.
See what happens when you use graphic files to display text?
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Add Halo PC to the list - to train yourself to save humanity for when the X-tian coalition or other fundies take over...
All right, if you want to play red-herring, the sector that was previously thought unprofitable includes well over 99% of the people now using any computer.
Of course they know how to tap it. It's obvious. Sell a cheap-ass product with no distinguishing features, no customer service, no innovation, and no user experience to speak of, by the millions. Apple just doesn't want to be that company.
Apple is a successful, profitable company. 18/20 profitable quarters! That's amazing! What makes you think they give a damn about increasing their market share significantly?
Dell. Probably 20/20 profitable quarters, and it didn't need MS to prop it up. Point is that there is a damned lot of profit to be made, and Dell does it selling virtually all their home machines below Apple's entry level.
Basically, all I want is their damned OS, they can shove their supposedly superior hardware. I don't need customer service, as I know what the fuck I'm doing, and I don't consider a color scheme to be an innovation. Just give me the OS on something that doesn't cost $1500 for entry-level.
And I'll tell you why they should give a damn - they make big talk about being accessible, and not being elitist, but their price points put them outside either A) the rich, or B) ideologues that eat raman noodles 3 meals a day for 6 months so they can afford one. And it's a really dumb idea to forsake a segment of the market that doesn't make $30,000 (like say students at non-ivy-league schools). I went to state school, and Apple had NO marketshare - they simply cost too much to even be an option. As a result, all my friends from college either still use windows or switched to linux - but I don't know a single person from undergrad who used a mac. And those buying preferences continue once ingrained.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
You can find in here too.
Pretty Pictures!
Because AES/EBU is significantly more expensive than S/PDIF (in either format, coax or optical). As for why you'd use optical over coax, no EMI noise. Shorter runs, but then most people aren't using proper 75 ohm cable for their coax S/PDIF anyways, so they don't get the full length of the spec as is.
Digital is digital, though. They all sound equally good. Just that some are more interference-resistant than others.
-T
I think I speak on behalf of the Mac zealots and the anti-Mac zealots. You have proven you are an annoying, stubborn fuck. WE GET IT.
Mod parent up please - its all about the benchmarks for me. Whats always put me off Apple is the fact that they never supplied SPEC CPU2000 fp benchmarks for their stuff -- lots of hype about supercomputer on a single chip yeah yeah right (scratches chins). All very suspicious to me...
Unless they bang-for-buck better at floating point than AMD then there isn't any point getting one (well for professional number crunching purposes).
how about a 1GHz g4 for 999?
The incorrectness of your analysis has been pointed out elsewhere so I won't comment. This one however needs comment. When I learned proper English in school, I was taught that all numbers below 100 are to be written out when specifying count (one, two, three, four . . . ninety-nine, 100). I guess the author was just using proper English. You have more gripe about "3 USB ports" if anything.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
and you're an idiot who can't spell
Just to get the jump on the Mac-bashers, here's the new list of allowed Mac complaints:
1. Stupid slow screens are a bottleneck. They don't refresh fast enough to keep up with the system. What were those morons at Apple thinking?
2. STILL no liquid helium cooling system?? Come on Apple, this isn't 1997!
3. Big deal. By 2008 you'll be able to get a comparable Dell box for half the price.
4. No floppy, no sale.
5. Still doesn't support my Chinese Xiondiangdong BKPDX-145 scanner.
6. Apple is dying.
7. I actually liked the Spinning Beach Ball of Death. I miss it.
8. It's so fast that I now have time to do other things. Then I discovered I don't have anything else to do.
Reliable rumor sources (such as MacRumors) have said that they have confirmed the use of the name G5 by Apple.
1GHz bus? gimme a break. Intel hasn't yet reached this. Two points impossible
Just because Intel hasn't reached it doesn't mean it's impossible. Anyone who judges the entire computer market by Intel's advances needs to get out more...
- AGP 8X Pro graphics options from NVIDIA or ATI
Almost believable, but for the moment Apple are phasing out the use of NVIDIA cards in their machines. I highly doubt they'll be used. Half a point impossible
These are Apple's Pro machines. They also, obviously, use a completely new architecture. So who's to say it's not plausible for Apple to use AGP 8x? Why can't Apple use AGP 8x? Don't you think they'd learn from their mistakes in the past, and include the fastest and latest technology in their products? Besides, if Apple is targeting this machine at high-end professionals, don't you think they'd need or want AGP 8x?
Three USB 2.0 ports
The rest of Apples site would say "3 USB Ports" not "Three". Also, Apple have a long standing habit of using Firewire instead of USB 2.0. I take this as one point impossible
Referring to my previous post, why wouldn't Apple include USB 2.0? Sure, it competes with FireWire, but it's a feature that will help sell more machines. Besides, with USB1.1 only motherboard chips becoming increasingly rare, it would seem only natural to include USB 2.0 with these new machines.
One FireWire 800, two FireWire 400 ports
Once again use of the verbal "One" instead of the numeric. Only one FW800 port? Why would Apple stick with FireWire 400 anyway? I mark this impossible
Maybe not everyone has use for FireWire 800. Even though it is backwards compatible with FireWire 400, not many people would want to carry around adapters for the plug. Besides, it would probably cost more to put in three FireWire 800 ports, when people mainly use FireWire 400.
Optical and analog audio in and out
Bad grammar, but optical audio in a graphics machine? I'm sorry but this sounds like wishful thinking. One more point impossible.
Who said this was exclusively a graphics machine? Look at the audio software out for Mac OS X. With the audio underpinnings of OS X, wouldn't it seem like a smart idea to put in pro-level hardware to make their software side of the OS more useful for the pros who need it?
In total, that's 4 and a half impossible features out of ten. If you're waiting on this machine, you'll be waiting a LONG time people.
I can wait three days for it. As said previously in this thread, there is no law of the universe that says Apple will always be behind the wintel world in hardware. These advancements will bring the machine up to par with PC's (AGP 8x, USB 2.0, Optical audio, etc..) while also surpassing high-end desktop PC performance.
Besides, if 8GB of ram is accecptable (which is not even available in any desktop PC that I know of), what makes you think that features that are standard in PC's today are impossible for Apple to implement???
The best way to accelerate your pee-cee is at 9.81m/s^2
Like everybody else, I will take these one at a time, and hopefully you will learn to pull your head out of your ass before you post.
/A ppleStore.woa/71808/wo/mx3MyumNEID83Be4fPHDAifz2OQ /0.0.7.1.0.5.21.1.2.1.0.0.0.1.0 /0.0.7.1.0.5.21.1.2.1.2.0.0.1.0 /0.0.7.1.0.5.21.1.1.1.0.0.0.1.0 /0.0.7.1.0.5.21.1.2.1.1.0.0.1.0
"OK I can't believe the mac world is going gaga over these specs. The screenshot font, color and layout do NOT match that of anywhere else on the Apple site. Taking a look through the specs is also quite revealing
- 1.6GHz, 1.8GHz or Dual 2GHz PowerPC G5 Processors
It's not a G5, it's a PPC970, completely different beasts. Not to mention neither Motorola or IBM have 2GHz chips in their roadmap until 2005. Bzzzt One point impossible"
OK, the IBM demo of the PPC970 at the October 2002 Microprocessor forum displyed the 1.8GHz chip as the entry level, available as soon as production started. Then, about two months later, IBM announced that they had PPC970s running at 2.0 and 2.4GHz clock speeds. These numbers are directly from IBM. They have no reason to lie about this.
"- Up to 1GHz processor bus
1GHz bus? gimme a break. Intel hasn't yet reached this. Two points impossible"
Ummmmm, if you had bothered to read any of the technical docs about the PPC970 (and provided that you understood them), you would know that the PPC970 bus is a fixed 1/2 clock of processor clock, thus, according to the spec a 1.8GHz chip has a 900MHz bus and a 2GHz chip has a 1GHz bus.
"- Up to 8GB of DDR SDRAM
This one is acceptable
- Fast Serial ATA hard drives
This is also possible
- AGP 8X Pro graphics options from NVIDIA or ATI
Almost believable, but for the moment Apple are phasing out the use of NVIDIA cards in their machines. I highly doubt they'll be used. Half a point impossible"
Actually, it is almost a given, as the chip interconnect that these systems are based on is HyperTransport-based, and since the HT bus and the CPU bus are so fast, you would be retarded not to put all of these in a new computer. Also, since Apple has complete control over hardware, it is much easier to add new features and spec. I would be supprised in these were not in the new Apples.
"- Three USB 2.0 ports
The rest of Apples site would say "3 USB Ports" not "Three". Also, Apple have a long standing habit of using Firewire instead of USB 2.0. I take this as one point impossible
- One FireWire 800, two FireWire 400 ports
Once again use of the verbal "One" instead of the numeric. Only one FW800 port? Why would Apple stick with FireWire 400 anyway? I mark this impossible"
You argument here is plain retarded. Did you even look at the Apple store? Look again:
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects
http://store.appl e.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/A ppleStore.woa/71808/wo/mx3MyumNEID83Be4fPHDAifz2OQ
http://store.appl e.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/A ppleStore.woa/71808/wo/mx3MyumNEID83Be4fPHDAifz2OQ
http://store.appl e.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/A ppleStore.woa/71808/wo/mx3MyumNEID83Be4fPHDAifz2OQ
Apple routinly spells out the numbering for products, as the above pages will show (one USB port, Five Expansion Ports, etc). In my experience, people usually try to argue semantics when their base arguments are to weak to fool a three year old. Nice try.
Oh, and on the whole USB 2.0 vs FireWire thing - THEY ARE AIMED AT DIFFERENT MARKETS!!!!!!!!!!
I can't believe after all this time that people STILL don't get that. Jeeeze...
"- Optical and analog audio in and out
Bad grammar, but optical audio in a graphics machine? I'm sorry but this sounds like wishful thinking. One more point impossible.
In total, that's 4 and a h
I've been running a 64bit OS/System for over 3 years now. Solaris 7 on UltraSPARC.
If this was a fake, why would Apple kill the discussion thread that went on under its own "Support - Discussions" tab on apple.com earlier today? Discussions > Power Mac G4 - G3-Cube > Power Mac G4 (MDD) and (FW 800) > Usage
So at work I use a 650 MHz P III. It sucks. XP is not as fast as it should be, although I am pretty sure it is down to bloated code. Trying to run more than one app at once always cripples it, and sometimes kills it. My 450 Mhz G4 at home runs jaguar seemlessly, and is smooth. Not fast, but smooth. Having multiple processes running at the same time is easy, and app-switching is easy. Of course, YMMV.
...a Beowulf cluster of those? ;-)
This is my post. There are many others like it. If you don't like what you read here, go try one of the others.
100% agreed with JudgeFurious -- AutoDesk for OS X would be a major switch incentive for a ton of engineers. I wonder why there is no version in the works. It's just not enough to have any other CAD/drawing/modeling software that's got "comparable features" to AD... we need a port of this industry standard app or else engineers/architects will stay locked in the Windoze world.
Don't hit me with that chain again.
... it's the year of the laptop. Imagine this G5 spec inside a brand new PowerBook G5 15" with all the illumination and features of the 17"????
That would be freaking AWESOME.
So, yes, it's real boys and girls. But hold onto your seats when Stevie reveals the specs of the 15" PowerBook G5.
I am so stoked!
Gentlemen, you guys are gonna love Linux PPC. Warm up those checkbooks for new PowerMacs. The day of x86 liberation has arrived. ;-)
Yellow Dog will probably be the first of the PPC distros to support the new 64-bit processors. You can run 32-bit until then. Mandrake 9.1 PPC is also very good, and there are others.
8Gb of RAM. What fun.
This is my post. There are many others like it. If you don't like what you read here, go try one of the others.
Don't forget, they also had ThinkSecret(If memory serves) remove the pictures/descriptions of the fake iWalk device. That thing was about as far away from reality as possible and it still got Apple Legal's panties in a bunch.
Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"
First of all, an 8600 is hardly one year old. I had a new 9500 in 1997. Second, if you think that OS X slow on a dual 1 Ghz, I can't help you. My experience is that any performance issues in the GUI are more than compensated by Quartz Extreme, and other CPU-heavy processes are, as I said, plenty fast.
The reason that the G5s might be coming in at a different (lower) price point than G4s might be because Apple is sourcing the chip from IBM, not Motorola. Perhaps IBM is giving Apple a way better price on the new chip than they could get on G4s from Motorola...it would make sense considering that IBM is in way better financial shape than Motorola is now.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
I don't have the time to put some really detailed numbers together because I should be writing my thesis, so I'll pick a system I was looking at just yesterday for a friend: this, from Multivision here in the UK. Briefly, it has:
This costs £1700 inc VAT with the 18" TFT screen. A 17" Apple studio display is £549. The balance of £1150 buys you a G4 1Ghz with 256Mb ram, 60Gb hard disk, a GF4MX with 64Mb and a DVD combo drive. Those machines aren't in the same league; they're barely even on the same planet.
Don't dismiss me as an Apple hater; I'm writing this on an iBook I love to bits and use every single day. I'd love use a G5 tower as my main workstation (I am a PhD compsci student), but I strongly suspect I won't be able to afford one.
As for putting 970s in laptops, I need to re-read the Ars Technica article about the chip because I am unfamiliar with how suited it is to mobile processing. Sure you might cram it into a Powerbook, but if it makes the underside run at 60 degC and brings the battery life down to an hour and a half, then that's two good reasons to choose Apple over x86 out of the window. I have read in passing that in fact the 970 is very low power (as it's other life is as a blade processor, I find this unsurprising) so I could well be proven wrong here. We will see.
You win again, gravity!
The register said that they have USB 2.0, but is it USB 2.0 Hi speed or USB 2.0 Full Speed?
Argh!
The Motorola PowerPC G5 at 1.6MHz has been shipping since November, 2001. What took Apple so long to wrap a box around it?
First off ... the USB 2.0 ... is that "Full Speed", or "High Speed" USB? I'm going to assume that it's the real USB 2.0, but then again, we all were assuming that 2.0 was really 2.0 before, and not an early version with a new name.
... again, I'm going to assume that this is PCI Express?
... as of yet.
Secondly, how would a 64Bit 2Ghz (with a 1Ghz System Bus) compare to an AMD, or an Intel chip running at 2Ghz, or what would it be equal to (Can you call the 2Ghz G5 a G5 3000+?
And the PCI-X
"Jobs will certainly discuss Panther, the next major release of Mac OS X, probably version 10.3. Apple has said as much, but it's what else he'll pull out of his stage magician's top hat that has the Mac world collectively holding its breath. The venue, and the satellite broadcast to AppleStores and elsewhere - these are, after all, not the kind of things that you usually associate with a show for programmers."
Could this also mean the announcement of a x86 version of Mac OS X? Since there have been rumours that Apple has a version of OS X that is designed for the PC, but is being hesitant on releasing it
Holy SHIT, you got the most replies for a single comment I have ever seen. And a lot of them were REALLY long. Just wanted to congratulate you. You will look dumb on Monday though.
Because it is hell to those who have to correct you.
Lets say that I am running a bunch of small tasks (such as a typical home user who can justify buying a tower)--I might have a webpage open in Safari, something like MS Word (or TeXShop), iTunes playing in the background, and a few other applications that I never bothered to close.
I tell TeXShop to compile my killer doc, it takes its sweet time going to one processor (this is seriously oversimplified). With one processor this is going to keep switching out with iTunes for continuous playback, the clock, and whatever maintenance needs to be done with Safari. These swaps also include the OS taking over for a moment (this is still very simplified) so it can figure out who is supposed to go next and improve the priority of things that haven't gotten their chance (I assume that the schedular is based on BSD's).
Two processors mean that each application has a *lot* less waiting to do since things can get sent to both processors. So when that heavy process hits one processor, the other processor can maintain the operating system without bothering the other process. Net result? Everything is faster and, almost as importantly, *smoother* for the user--no more interupting that heavy task so that you can open the menu or check the day.
Remember, MacOS X takes advantage itself of SMP.
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
In the scientific and research world, and to some extent the ecommerce world. what we really need is a 4, 8 , 16 proccesor version of this. this would be a great succesor to the now defunct alpha line. im hoping that its a matter of time and that either apple or ibm introduces a product that can really do some computing.
also 16Gb of ram would be nice.
Here is the ref
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
>6. Apple is dying
That should be:
6. Beleaguered Apple is Dying.
No Apple Criticism is complete without it!
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
Stupid Login! This is not a point impossible. Apple has been making a huge fuss about audio with the iPod. Furthermore, there new store opening July 27th in Downtown Chicago, has a ton of music events happening in the first month. Personally, I had thought it was wierd for them to host so many music events, but I guess they plan on doing more audio than just the iPod & Music Store.
Michael Niessner
Since Apple is saving 25-35% per PPC970 purchased from IBM vs. the prices they are paying for existing G4s, it only makes sense for Apple to do a top-to-bottom rollout for the 64 bit chips. We all thought Apple would ship PowerMacs starting with the 1.2ghz PPC970, but instead, they will start at 1.6. It would be ideal for Apple to introduce the 1.2 PPC970 at the low range eMac line to keep it more than spec competitive at the *low end*...
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
...badly
...porn at the speed of light....
What's the proper word to describe the sound of a collective pants-shitting at Apple?
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
Forget the JD! Big Billy wants to go! Clamp on your Windoze logoz - Apple's goin to the dark side! LOL
Will all those specs... they don't even include an Fast Ethernet or Gigabit connection ?
Because like entirely too many of us here....
:-p
......I still don't have a JOB!
P.S. Any one know of a company who wants to hire a Mac Geek and buy a G5 for their new employee?? I am ready to start as of Monday.
...and my resume is filled to the brim with all the right leters (XML, PHP, DHTML, BLA, BLA, JAVA, PERL, ETC, ETC) just like the rest of us.
line ernie line at line dambach line dot line org line - read between the lines to email me all those job offers out there.
Ernie Dambach
"It is no small thing to celebrate a simple life -Tolkien
it seemed to read ok to me? or is that there are too many paragraph breaks?
PTC actually requested input on an OSX version of Pro/Desktop (or whatever they call it now) and as PTC already has a UNIX base, this, to my way of thinking will make for a much easier port than SolidWorks to OSX. I would expect an X11 version, and if there are enough takers, look for a Aquified version down the road. (note that SolidWorks was created by ex-PTC guys that wanted a clean port for the windows world.) Being as though I am in the process of updating to Wildfire, an annoucement of PTC OSX support would be welcome. And yes, I still use Virtual Gibbs on an old performa for maching parts, so it did exist as a product at one time. Still, its a new world, CAD/CAM is out of fashion (its Product Lifecycle Management now) and being as though the industry is in a slump, any excitement in the PC world may create potential sales, and the 970 based mac's are certainly providing Intel parity and excitement.
For this to be a legitimate accident goes against everything I would expect from a professionally managed web page. It's like each graphical artist can upload his or her graphic to the active web server whenever the image is finished so they can check out how it looks in the full layout. That's ridiculous.
Even small companies have a staging site where new web material is uploaded all of a piece to be verified. Then only a small group of people would be authorized to transfer that directory to the active web server. For something like the new PowerMac release, I'd expect the web page would be completely replaced in a single operation, from an off-line direcory, rather than ad hoc updates of single image files.
What is the possible mechanism by which this could have been accidentally uploaded? If it was not intentional on the part of Apple's marketing team, then it would appear to be malicious on the part of some employee with access to the web server.
I have never understood why people have such passionate views of the two (three if you include *nix) platforms. They both have strengths and weaknesses and both have a comfortable niche in the technologies industry. It's unlikly that people will switch from Windows to OS X due mainly to the learning curve thats required. It's not that it's hard, it's that people are lazy. thus they will have a hard time relearnign quick keys and adjustign to the different behavior. If they had to they could, but they won't do it otherwise. The same applies to Apple people switching to PC. People just don't beleive the switch is worth the time. We can debate all we want abut the general merits of each but this won't change the fact that MAC's are high end niche machines and PC's are commodity machines.
As a personal anicdote I have seen more people switch from Mac to PC than vise versa,
the numbers are 8 mac -> PC vs 0 PC -> mac. The switches were mainly for utility and economic reasons.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
To clear the confusion, PCI-X has been shipping since the i840 / i850 chipsets, and is prevalent in the e750x Xeon chipsets. (my e7505 Dual Xeon box has more PCI-X slots than standard 33Mhz / 32bit slots)
/2.2 spec.
It is merely an extension of the PCI 2.1
PCI Express is a completely different spec, with backwards compatibility as a bolt-on option. After adoption, expect to see your old PCI 2.1 / 2.2 slots disappear and have only PCI Express slots available.
PCI express was just demo'd and referenced at Intel Developer Forum this spring, and Intel isn't expected to have it on their own boards until the Xeon "Twin Castle" chipset ships in '04. As it is an open standard, expect Apple, AMD, IBM, SiS, and VIA to follow suit in about the same time frame.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Just for the record, accepted AP (Associated Press) writing style dictates that all numbers ten and below be spelled out. Thus 'two' and 'three' not '2' and '3' when describing the number of ports. Numbers relating to versions, such as 2.0, are numerals for obvious reasons.
http://macteens.com/news_more.php?id=122_0_3_0_C
scott king
Didn't say they wouldn't use it, but I was specifically trying to point out the flaws in his reasoning, over trying to hand proper facts in. Trying to argue that they won't have an AGP slot because they're 'phasing out NVidia' is a moot point. They'd still have an AGP slot for whatever video card they use, or at the least to support high-end graphics cards the user may buy seperately. It would castrate them to not have an AGP slot in todays market. :-)
WolfWings was here...
bzzt! price/performance/productivity discussions are enless, but some of your facts are wrong.
Jun 1988: Mac OS 6.0
Oct 1990: Mac OS 6.0.7
May 1991: Mac OS 7.0
Oct 1991: Windows 3.0
Apr 1992: Windows 3.1
Aug 1992: Mac OS 7.1
June 1994: Mac OS 7.5
Aug 1995: Windows 95
Mac OS 6.x and Windows 3.1 never went head to head as shipping operating systems - Mac OS 7.0 was released nearly 6 months before even Win 3.0 . Win 95 didn't make an appearance for four and a half years after System 7.0.
*if* these machines are true, i would expect them to roughly follow the current prices. maybe the top of the line custom workhorse will jump up to a higher bracket, but in general i bet they start at the same place. i don't know about all the components, but what i have read about the PPC970 chips is that they actually cost a lot less than the G4s (as well as use less power and consume less energy). If the last statement is true, it makes you wonder how loing the G4s will be around for anything but upgrades to existing machines (seems the 970 will not work with current motherbopards).
macs *usually* fall into a pricing structure and somewhat stay the same after updates. it's not like these (if they are real) will be stacked on top of the current machine's prices and start at $4,000..... the G4 some poor citizen buys today will be dropped in price by hundreds of dollars monday if these show up. sometimes they sort of shift up and down a step according to conditions of the market. For example, for a long time there has been an emac/imac right at or around $999. I guess this pricing method is what caused their price protection deal where if you buy a machine and the price officially drops in 2 or 4 weeks (depends on who you ask?) they will refund the change.
Okay, who took down the "Don't Feed the Trolls" sign and hid it in these bushes over here? You didn't have to pile up all those rocks on it!
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
The 2GHz UltraSPARC III would run around $20,000 where the 2GHz PPC 970 will go for around $5,000.
Kiss your ass good buy Sun. The only area left they can screw is the E10000 market and the clustered XServes will surely be able to do this soon as well.
This is a red letter day for Apple (well Monday will be). It's kind of like 1983/84 superbowl commercial.
Does anyone find it ironic that the company Apple was battling so hard in the mid 80's is now their chip supplier? Lol, I love the computer industry. Yesterday's enemy is todays ally.
A bus speed of 1 ghz? This means a multiplicator of... 2 !
They're also going to release an 80" Cinema Display!
- passion
and both have the performance of a sub-$400 PC..
This is someone's idea of a joke. If this really came from an Apple Store page then there are several things wrong. The FSB of 1Ghz is faster than IBM's posted specs for one. A dual 2Ghz Mac is so much faster than a single 1.6 or 1.8 that the configuration makes no sense. Serial ATA is still too fast for even the fastest hard disks (except for experimental solid state drives) and makes no sense. PCI-X is also unecessary, no mention is made of either the highly important video card or Gigabit Ethernet or Panther or hard drive size. And worse of all, it smells to high hell
are you saying you've been to a proffesional studio where they used osx? I sure havent...
For all you people who complain that macs cost too much, it's because they use quality parts, not the cheapest thing from malaysia they could find. My friend recently bought a Dell Inspirion 4100, and the screen on it, while having a large resolution, is terrible. If you go even slightly out of center with it, the colors go all wacky. But my iBook's screen is much better, even though it's 4 years older. Quality parts people, quality parts.
- Sherman
Those specs didn't say anything about the noise level. Will they have upgraded fans?
My MDD is so freaking load! Even after the fan replacement kit, it is way louder than my dual celeron with all the groovy heat sink and blow hole fans.
Come on Apple! For $5,000 the thing should be silent. Hell, it should absorb sound from the surrounding area.
Obviously the moderators have never come into contact with this particular brand of ex-mac user. This is *FUNNY* (though I get it more often from old Apple II die hards) because its *TRUE*. People like this do exist.
But then you can't run OS X. OS X is the beauty of the Mac - it was worth running OS X on Mac hardware last week, even though for less $$ you cna get a PC capable of more calculations/second in general. But next week you can run OS X and run it on hardware that makes the fastest PC's its bitch. Oh and with the most cutting edge assortment of technologies wrapped up in the mix, to boot. Yea it's more expensive. That's just cost of admission, friend.
It's going to be one hell of a ride.
blakespot
-- Heisenberg may have slept here.
iPod Hacks.com
If the new towers start at 1.6 Ghz, what has Apple been doing with the 1.2 and 1.4 Ghz parts everyone assumed they've been getting?
Hah! Eat me, Michael Sims, you backstabbing little shit!
Horses for courses, some like Windows, some like OSX and others prefer something like Linux.
A dual 1.2GHz UltraSPARC III runs around $15,000.
.Net at work! lol ;)
There is a reason 64bit is better than 32bit, the same way 32bit is better than 16bit. It may take a while for the apps to catch up but it is impossible to utilize a 64bit processor before the damn thing exists.
If the Dual 2GHz is under $5000 I'll get one (this consides with my 30th birthday, what a present!). If it's more than that I'll wait on rev b. Or if they really shock me and release a 970 based Powerbook, that is what I'll get (price be damned).
Ah the joy of being a software developer. "But honey, I really need that new G5 to be current and keep my job." Little does she know I develop in
"No offense, but anyone who thinks it was a mistake or leak doesn't understand marketing. :)"
No offense, but anyone who thinks this is marketing doesn't understand Steve Jobs. I'm sure someone got fired over this.
MoRe... LaTeR... -=PJK=-
I think you mean "Bring me a Mac that PERFORMS LIKE a 1.8 ghz/8x AGP/400-500FSB x86 machine in the $900 range and I'll be damn impressed."
How do they make serious comparisons, anyway? I think Maximum PC tried to do one with a few games and engineering applications and the single-processor Mac got blown away...
+++ATH0
Yeah there is a larger list, but it may be somewhat dissapointing. It is at www.apple.com/games
You should find most of the recent mac compatible games there.
You haven't read the thread real well, eh dipshit? I want MacOS X. It's a unix with a window manager that doesn't suck, which seems to be a first. If I have to have the rest of the mac too, so be it. But spending $1500 for an entry-level machine is unacceptable. And please don't mention the iMac, as popping in cards, drives, and such is mandatory for me, as is having a separate monitor.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Michel, please stop using the article summary area as your own personal soapbox from which to spout your wild speculation. PLEASE!
At the very least quit stating it so matter-of-factly. I'm really fucking sick of hearing your opinions stated as fact. You may be right, but you shouldn't have the right to a louder voice than anyone else.
Shit, I can't believe nobody modded you up yet. I just used my last point or I would. Fucking Funny, I laughed much more than the parent comment!
Wow, You gotta wonder about that... would they be that quick. The job title is Web Publishing Manager WW Apple Store. Too bad it doesn't have date opened or anything. Very interesting...
INSIGHTFUL!!! (just trying to help the dipshit mods who don't know the difference between insightful, informative, interesting)
My Mac, on the other hand...well, it's for annoyances like making a living. ;-)
http://www.macfreak.org/cgi/forums/topic.cgi?forum =16&topic=2285
"The specs are fake. It's an employee from another company that Apple works with that uploaded the pic as a joke. He uploaded the pic trought the Akamai Network... Sources at cupertino confirmed this...
This is all translated from a dutch mac site I read often.. "
This was taken from Macnn
I just hope the Specs are real.
Thank you sir, that was a wonderful read. God Bless You.
Pfft - Sorry, what?
Watch out, this guy is charging more than CafePress's base price, so he's making a tidy profit here. Just get the graphic yourself, create your own free shop, and buy it at cost. Save yourself a buck or two and fuck this asshole trying to rip people off. If somebody does it and creates a shop at cost, post it here. I'm too fucking lazy (and I'm not going anyway).
If we wanted a reality distortion field, we'd go to GU4DEC. If you want see a bunch of people practicing BS that keeps microsoft's dominance afloat, you couldn't find a better place than GU4DEC.
The whole "we're getting there" crap gets really tiresome after seeing the same usability problems creep up again and again for year after year after year. But what should we expect from a bunch of command-line nerds who think that they can do desktop stuff.
Clearly, this is the type of thinking that keeps Microsoft in the top spot, keeps IE dominating the web in the face of superior free alternatives
Or perhaps the free alternatives are crap, and the desktop linux developers have way too many apologists running around artificially inflating the quality of those alternatives. And when the true quality of those apps is brought into question by a non-geek who has trouble doing something, those linux developers start screaming "quit whining about what you're getting for free". If I had to pick the number one thing that was really keeping microsoft dominant on the desktop, I would have to say it would have to be Free Software's obvious non-commitment to usability.
The freedom to get your work done easily and with a minimum of fuss is the most valuable and sacred freedom an end-user can have, and currently the "Free" software developer community does not recognize the existence of this freedom. The GPL is a programmer's idea of freedom, not an end user's. "Join us all and share the software. You'll be free -- once you read the fine manual".
What's the reason for such staunch pro-apple/pro-mac beliefs?
Apple put a GUI on their machines while the PC's forced people to use confusing command-line crap like DOS.
Apple was the first company to put trackballs in their laptops while other laptop makers forced users to clip a trackball onto the side of laptop every damn time they turned the thing on. Apple also created the first laptop that actually had a generous portion of real-estate behind the keyboard where a user could rest their hands. It was only later that the other vendors starting aping this feature.
Apple was the first computer maker to truly embrace the more usable usb and firewire back when other computer makers stayed in their happy, crappy comfort zones of serial and parallel connectors. If Apple didn't force the USB/Firewire migration issue with the perhipheral harware companies in 1997 with the iMac, it would have taken several more years for the "alternative vendors" to even begin that migration themselves.
Apple was the first company to truly make an easy, usable, and integrated alternative to illegally swapping mp3's on Kazaa. It will probably hit some snag and will be replaced by something better, but the point is that Apple had the wherewithall to do it.
The poing is that Apple has the balls to make the computing experience better for everyone while other vendors like Gateway, Dell, and Compaq choose to sit on their ass and do nothing. I agree that liking a company just because they make pretty cases is ridiculous; it is the attention and care paid to the user experience which truly builds loyaltly.
Yes, the code for Cocoa and Quartz is closed. It would be nice if it were open, but given the shennanigans that are GNOME, KDE, and the X-Windows system, the current batch of Free Software developers have shown that they could never be trusted with it. Leave them with the code for Cocoa for five minutes, and they'd immediately start to make things inconsistent and unusable.
Ideally, I'd like to see those mac values transplated into efforts to make open and viable alternatives to microsoft. If we could just find a way to remove the current batch of linux developers and replace them with competant mac developers, then an open desktop would truly be in business.
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
Im mostly a dat user as well. give me my 24/48!
the history of the world
Are you some self-appointed crusader that's gonna save us from the Mac? Were you bitten by an LCii when you were a child?
What makes you get up on this board and low-rate the Macintosh again and again? Some of your points are good, most are FUD nonsense.
But what really makes you stand out is your geniune desire to dictate what kind of computer people buy. I'm glad I don't know you in person!
Someone screwed up. The info was posted by mistake.
Why is that so complicated?
"Jobs's keynotes have been losing their luster lately."
Perhaps 2 years ago, but MWSF blew everyone away, and then some. You're reaching.
-Stu
Maybe it's just the font or some unacknowledged retro impulse, but I initially read "G5" as "GS". Finally, I thought, some support from Apple for the aging beast!
Sadly it's just some other 64-bit multigigahertz thing. Moving on.
When you say insecure and instable, are you referring to Linux or Windows XP? It has been my own experience that both operating systems are roughly the same in those aspects these days.
Of course, out of the Box, Linux tends to be slightly more secure, while Windows XP requires a few tweaks. As for stability, I have had similar stability issues with both operating systems in the recent past.
Of course, I would be using both as workstations and won't be accepting connections from any external source. So, security will be made pretty tight for both operating systems on this laptop.
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
If those specs were posted as a joke, whoever posted it could be in for a world of hurt, lawsuit-wise.
People who have heard of the specs being posted on Apple's site now have certain expectations of what is being released/announced on Monday. Apple is now under a fair bit of pressure to unveil machines with specs as impressive as what was posted on their site, and if they don't, their business could suffer as a result. They could go after that guy if they could prove that his little "joke" is the cause.
"The world's fastest personal computer."
Agreed with all you said. Additionally, if this had really been an intentional leak, then this is the only thing they should have "let slip". It would leave the techies slobbering, but wouldn't steal any of the fun from Job's presentation.
But it's the poor, hapless GUYs that have to worry. These are mac users, after all.
and apples are not... i've no clue how this new platform will perform but their previous best... the dual 1.3 ghz powermac was 2-3 times slower in graphics against a cheaper priced alienware 3.0ghz laptop (p4, with hyperthreading, old 533mhz bus)
Hmmm... Pie...
We don't consider this apologism. Most Machead are not big gamers. When we dismiss Doom speeds and Quake framerates as meaningless, it is not because we want to defend the platform irrationally, it is because we honestly don't care about game performance. As with anything there are exceptions, but this attitude is the rule, not the exception.
I can only speak for myself here, but I think many or most macheads would agree with me. I like the Mac OS interface. That is what makes a Mac a Mac, and that is what keeps us loyal.
That said, speed is nice too. After enduring a million snide comments on and offline about how Macs are slow and knowing they were right, it will be nice to once again have a reasonable retort. Plus I am looking forward to those Final Cut Pro render lines completing faster the next time I am pulling an all-nighter to finish a video project.
ho hum, another day, another supercomputer
This was quite a while ago. OS 8 was out and many computers were running System 7. These OSes did not have the sort of respect outside the community that OS X has received. This was not unjustistified. These OSes had their problems, and at this point the Mac OS was an acquired taste. Apple being the first company to release a supercomputer desktop was a mark of pride we could bring out against those who mocked our 'MacinTrashes' and lauded their Mhz myth empowered 3133t Pentiums.
So to answer your question: we love the OS, we like speed, and if we have a snappy retort to the next mac-basher that is pretty cool too.
omnia tua castra sunt nobis
No matter how many system builders will brag to you it is almost impossible to beat pc manufacturers in the sub $1200 category. I looked into this myself and realized that buying individual components at their cheapest will not get me a computer with a greater value then that provided by a large manufacturer. Extremetech.com also did a study on this recently and came to the same conclusions.
I build my own systems only because I have older components that i can reuse. I almost never build a machine completely with all new parts. My machines basically improves slowly as technology does with me upgrading things slowly.
Hmmm... Pie...
Let's see, firewire trailed the PC architecture? No.
legacy free model trailed the PC dominance of the format? No.
And is Apple likely to follow the PC in BIOS? No.
Where the PC has its act together, Apple no longer marches to its own drummer but brain dead decisions like retaining the BIOS format instead of moving to the more capable open firmware will never have Apple following.
I can't believe it's 2003 and Wintel machines still occasionally have IRQ conflicts. How brain dead is that?
For all the snarling and growling and derision about Apple, the sheer amount of posts on the topic of new Apple hardware says perhaps more about the interest in Apple's hard- and software than any poll ever could.
But there's a big difference. The home car building hobby has a lot greater barriers to entry than the home computer building hobby. The first one is time. I can assemble a computer in less than an hour, whereas putting a car together is a process that can take a shadetree mechanic several times longer. Second is the space constraint. A PC's small. I can assemble it in a 3x4 foot space and be comfortable. Finally, a lot more people know a computer savvy friend who'd be willing to sit down and fix the system for beer money or the like, which is something you probably won't find with a car builder.
Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses
It doesn't support half of the Game software that I would be using Windows for. Sure, it looks purty. Sure, it's great for graphic arts design and is wonderful for movie editing and audio work.
I am not a graphics artist, I am not a movie making kind of person, I only listen to audio.
Thus, there is no compelling reason to buy a Mac, other then the "Whoo look! I have me a shiny bauble!!!"
There is less that I could do with a Mac then I can do with Windows and Linux. So... a Mac isn't for me. If they really thought about it, a Mac is likely not for most geeks similar to myself.
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
ATI...accidentally leaked
ATI leaked *on purpose* because it was end-of-quarter and their stock needed the boost. I was at Apple at the time, I knew people who were there when Steve found out. Ballistic doesn't begin to describe it.
http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/Article.asp?date Publish=2003/06/19&pages=04&seq=20
:)
Enjoy, wonder if a 64bit compiled HL2 and Doom3 would offer any benefits
-- taking over the world, we are.
Fairly or not, the rules are always a little different for the underdog. That's why Apple hasn't faced antitrust prosecution despite having a 100% monopoly on Apple hardware.
We defend Apple because, first and foremost, we care.
The stakes are high for us, since if Apple doesn't deliver, we might have to (gulp) become Windows users. And surely that's worth making a sacrifice or two.
So we'll cut Apple some slack on questions like this.
D
If the censorware debacle doesn't show it, his snide, arms-crossed-and-eyes-rolled remarks do. Why is this clown still employed by the OSDN to be an editor for this site??
Can be found here. "On a Mac, upgrading is easy. On a PC, you have to open the case, swap out cards, change jumpers... On a Mac, you just pick it up, throw it away, and buy a new one. Now thats convienance"
Going back through my memory, I can think of a couple other very important leaks:
I think going back through previous posts is more accurate.
This one will go down as probably the most significant leak in quite a while.
Oh, I don't know about that - I had a fairly significant leak just this morning...
Which way does Steven Jobs like his coffee? I assume you were his "piss boy" when you were there...
Yes and IBM has 100% monopoly on IBM hardware, Ford 100% monopoly on Ford cars & trucks...
I bet he tells everybody he knows that he's "in charge" of /.
Trouble is, sometimes it seems as if he is.
Anyone who doesn't think it's a mistake or leak doesn't understand Apple.
It's all about mystique, and it's all about Jobs. Jobs makes the big announcement at the WWDC keynote speech. Anyone who steals his thunder is hurting their marketing *plan*.
Sheesh.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
I just bought one of these for a client a few weeks ago and indeed in the marketing materials it looks sweet, reality is its a plastic piece o crap, quality not even on par with a speak and spell. Just a heads up, and it really did not seem all that fast to be honest ( XPHome ) anyway , also its on its way back home to dell this week to see a dell laptop doc, as this one displays lots of wacky colors at random intervals, pretty but.....I am apple laptop biased to be honest but I truly was shocked at the build quality of the dell. I wont even talk about the quality of the $600 dell desktop I just bought for another client, damm disapointing. But like I said I am a Mac bigot so I expect, not much , but just a bit more quality from a "Name Brand " machine. And you are right, Wide Screen laptops , while not really needed by most , are sure chock full of gooey sweetness : )
these are the actual specs. If so, Powermac sales will most definitely climb out of their slump.
-You may license this sig for only $6.99.
Figures that you losers would be discussing the asthetic appearence of the case rather than the hardware that it's running. I bet you all drive PT Cruisers.
This guy has no idea what he's talking about. Everyone knows that all the hipsters are driving Mini Coopers these days.
duh.
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
Except that monopolies aren't illegal.
Using your monopoly status to unfairly kill off competition is illegal.
Currently, Itanium2 peaks at 1 GHz and costs $3000 per chip, and the next version (Madison) runs at 1.5 GHz and consumes 130 W.
The PPC 970 is reportedly significantly cheaper than the G4 with a power consumption of 40 W at 1.8 GHz or 19 W at 1.2 GHz.
Given that both are 64-bit chips with comparable performance, who the hell would pay 10 times more money for an Itanium2 unless he wants something to warm up the house?
[Buzz]
Incorrect. It's a Motorola thing AND an Apple thing... when the number is 4 digits, the Second Number in Motorola's numbering scheme is the "G" of the processor. Note all the Motorola chips Apple is using are "74XX"
This doens't apply across ALL of Motorola's products (and certainly doesn't work for any of IBM's), only those with 4 digits. (since the 740 and 750 were "G3")
It's embedded processors are 82X(X) since they are based on "G2" (or the PowerPC 603 core). The newest embedded processor from Motorola is the "85XX", aka "G5". Based on the "e500" (see the '5'?) core. It just happens that processor is NOT something Apple would be caught dead with - wrong features for the market.
..with a 600$ machine. Hmm, got windows inside..plugs it into ole intarweb..starts surfin around... hmmm, got some other stuff.. hmm.. GOT OWNED IMMEDIATELY
That has got to be worth... uh.. something....nice drive to the peecee shoppe, or call YOU for tech support every 1/2 hour.
heh heh heh just joking, but there's some trooths in dere too
Itanium will beat the 970 in floating-point performance, and if you need something with more than 2 processors the 970 is not an option.
To twist a saying: never attribute to genius what can be attributed to accident
I am using a CAD program on the Mac as we speak. Vectorworks 10. http://www.nemetschek.net/ Do research before posting false comments. Thank You!
Including college.
Had to say it :-)
I have discovered a wonderful
I hate it when idiots say that Apple has a 100% monopoly on Apple hardware. NO SHIT.
just like Dell has a 100% monopoly on Dell computers and Ford has a 100% monopoly on Ford vechicles
stupid comments
Check out http://www.macmice.com/powerperch.html:
Confirmation?
...going to question the source of the screenshots? "yeah, it was only up for a few seconds" is a pretty easy claim to make... I'm not saying it wasn't real, I'm just saying we shouldn't assume that these sources are 100% accurate. For example: This mirror, which is supposedly a verbatim mirror that was just saved off of apples site, has its images hosted at different locations. Everything but the little G5 bullet point section is hosted on one server, while the bullets are hosted on this guy's page. That's not to say Jobs won't announce it monday (or at least soon), just pointing out that we can't treat this as "proof" because some guy says he took a screenshot.
With dell you usually get a office suite and then the xp os. Which is at least $150 (if you use linux and only other free software you can get around this) and also did you remember to add the price of the monitor that dell usually bundles? There's also little things people forget like a decent heatsink, cables here and there. A lot of people also think they can get a way with a cheap case and powersupply. But that will bite you in the long run.
:) with special procs like the JIUHB XP 1700+ (tbred b, 1.5 volt version) a nf2 mobo and some good ram.
Also there's the thing of amd versus intel. If you use midrange and lower amd processors they are a lot cheaper then intels. The higher end processors from both companies are close to being equal in price.
If i do take overclocking into account i can build a monstrously faster computer with the same amount of money though
Hmmm... Pie...
You're mistaken. The revolution will not be televised!
As you quite correctly state, mLAN works over a single FIREWIRE cable. It's already supported by OS X.
What does that have to do with optical audio i/o?
-spheric*
I know I'm on /., but is it too much to ask that people read their own posts? I mean okay, so you don't read the article or the little blurb at the top, but at least read what you are writing?
Your original statement:
"Macs still are best for people who want to do audio, graphics, DTP work and little else. "
Your followup:
"Are you trying to suggest that Windows is better for all of the above?"
No, I think that the author was implying that you had never used a Mac because of the "and little else" statement, not because of the "audio, graphs, [and] DTP work" part.
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
I don't think either of your points is true.
With Altivec, the G5 would have awesome floating point performance per cycle and run at much higher clock speed than Itanium2.
Apple will likely launch Xserves with quad G5 processors soon. But unlike the G5, the Itanium is exclusively a server processor, so who give a toss about its FP performance.
Further more, there are very few software programs written for Itanium, and it's hard to optimize the code. In contrast, all current 32-bit Mac applications run natively on the PPC970, and it probably takes not much more than a recompilation with a new version of GCC to build 64-bit versions.
With Gigabit Ethernet and Firewire 800, you can easily configure hundreds of Xserves and Power Macs into clusters.
The bit rate for standard ATRAC used by MD in SP mode is 292 kbps. Read more here:
http://www.minidisc.org/near_cd.html
And here:
http://www.minidisc.org/minidisc_faq.html
I think when the funky fast new G3s with 1+ghz and altivec (these are the Gobi?), Apple will just call them G4s. As said above, the name is all marketing. Even if the chip is based on a different design, for the end user the result will be the same.
Plus, they're made by IBM, not Motorola. Plus, they may be faster, cooler, and consume less power than G4s.
So if I had to guess I'd say that a year from now Apple will split their computers between G3s (rebranded as new G4s) and G5s. Especially if the G5 really is cheaper, the "real" G4 will disappear.
There are so many things wrong with your so-called analysis, but others have covered them quite well so here's my two cents:
Your say that "The rest of Apples site would say '3 USB Ports' not 'Three'."
This is not true. Go back to the Apple store and check out the iMac. One of the description lines is "Two FireWire ports and five USB ports". I don't know about the other products since this was the first one I tried.
It appears that Apple is inconsistent throughout their store. This is no great surprise, since Apple updates the pages to the store each time a product is introduced. If they decide to transition to a new font or theme, it is included each time a product is updated and its web page is revised. Apple doesn't revise its entire website all at once, this would be too time consuming and unnecessary.
I prefer AMD to Intel, and even to the current PPC offerings, but the problem with AMD chips has always been that they won't run OS X. In a few days it will be irrelevant, since if the PPC 970-based Powermacs are nearly as good as the specs Apple momentarily posted, performance will be at least as good as AMD-based Windows systems. And OS X rocks my world, whereas Windows is a buzzkill.
1. The Spec benchmarks are heavily optimized for x86, but not PPC.
:)
2. Spec does not use Altivec.
Thus, if the PPC 970 scores similarly to x86 offerings at Spec, it is reasonable to assume that it will trounce x86 in real world performance. OS X is heavily optimized for Altivec, along with most multimedia apps. Even Quake 3A (and probably Doom 3) is now optimized! Quake gets about a 10% boost in fps with Altivec optimizations on a G4, but the G4 performance is hobbled by it's slow Maxbus. On a PPC 970 with it's monster Elastic bus, it's probably that Quake 3 will realize an Altivec boost in fps far in excess of 10%.
Oh, and I forgot to even mention Apple's commitment to dual processing. Many OS X apps (including Quake 3) are optimized for dual CPUs.
So yes, it is reasonable to predict that these new Powermac G5 systems are going to demolish Wintel systems, at least for a while. If IBM is successful in quickly migrating the 970 to a 90 nm process, Apple will maintain or increase it's performance advantage over Wintel. And if IBM offers a "980" based upon the Power 5 CPU core, then things might start to get embarrassing for Wintel. We Mac users certainly know a lot about that!
"Why do I bother?"
I was asked to clarify my position relating to why a Windows running system is better suited to match the needs of my daily computing use. So, I have done as asked.
"Do your parents force you to buy one?"
This makes little sense... My parents haven't had dominion over me for a number of years. Prior to that, they were against the idea of me using computers or even owning one. They are Luddites of the highest order.
"Other then games, what exactly can't you do with a Mac?"
Not a whole lot. I never said that a Mac was useless, it just won't suit ALL of my needs. When it comes to gaming the Mac OS AND Linux severely lack in support many of the games that I would enjoy playing.
You are also right in saying that you are unable to perform any CAD work. (With major CAD systems used in the Automotive industry, which is only slightly important being that I work in the Automotive Industry and may need to run such software on occasion.)
"As a geek, what do you think is absent in Mac, that you really need?"
Not a whole lot, except for support for a large range of software that is only available on Microsoft Windows; such as game software, MANY CAD packages, NC Software for VMCs and other similar types of equipment.
"And by the way, since when playing game is a part of characteristics of a geek?"
Reread what I wrote. I stated "geeks similar to myself". I didn't make a blanket statement saying ALL geeks or geeks in general. I was perfectly clear in stating "geeks like myself". To me that statement means a subset of geeks with similar interests to my own, which would include computer games.
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
Would you and the other misc people cool it with this myth?
...and you will note a distinct lack of DTP, Audio, or Graphical (sans graphing) work in all of that.
There have been *exactly* two pieces of software that I wished ran on the Mac at one point or another, but didn't.
One is OrCAD/PSpice, which now that I'm out of school I could die happy if I never have to use it again.
Another is an editor called TorilEdit, which is DOS only. It being dirt simple to replicate (just time consuming), I am writing my own version of it--in Python.
I've don't lack for a word processor or document renderer (MS Word, AppleWorks, OpenOffice, TeXShop/teTeX), a web browser (OmniWeb, Camino, Safari), a Presentation tool (Powerpoint, Keynote), Statistical Software (R, JMP), graphing software (R, ChartSmith, proFit), ABM modeling toolkits (Ascape, Swarm), Diagraming/UML tools (OmniGraffle), compilers (java, gcc), IDEs (BBEdit, Project Builder), or anything else that I use (Goban, Deimos Rising, QuickBooks, cvs, nmap, etc, etc, etc).
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
The one concern I have is what will happen when this turns out to be a fake after all. A practical joke played by someone in Apple's web-developement department. Or even some outsider managing to get this picture in. Many people will be very disappointed. I'd hate that to happen but it might just be the truth.
If not, I will have to plunder my savings account real soon.
Actually, would you just fuck off if you don't have anything remotely intelligent to say? You've now said the same unintelligent comment twice, and you've already demonstrated a rather sad lack of reading comprehension. As such, you'll understand why I really don't give a shit what you say or think, and as such I won't waste any further time reading anything you have to say. Actually, considering your demsonstrated lack of intellect, you may not understand, but perhaps you can find someone to explain it to you.
I apologize for the trivial post, but it's #1000 - I figured that it would only be fair to give one of the biggest apple.slashdot.org comment threads ever the slight nudge to put it into the 4-digit mark.
Can't wait to see those G5s.
That's a graphics card problem. Yours sucks. No biggie on Apple, really.
Actually, both of you are correct. The FSB for a PPC 970 is 1/4 the speed of the chip, but it is DDR (double data-rate). This means that it is effectively 1/2 the speed of the chip.
There are no tiger attacks in my area and it's all because this rock I'm holding keeps the tigers away.
There are no tiger attacks in my area and it's all because this rock I'm holding keeps the tigers away.
Thanks for playing. Vanna, show our guest his lovely parting gift.
OK, this is going a little bit Off-Topic, but not much more than all the other comments made ;)
First I have to admit that I don't really know anything about PPCs, but there seem to be a few things which I don't like about them:
The OS and the Platform is from the same vendor.
If there were no PCs, do you think Apple would give their specs to the open source community - actually - DO they give them away right now?
How about updating your current machine? How many choices do you have, how many third-party vendors are there?
Do you get the same freedom with PPC you could get with x86?
How much does the open source community care about PPCs, can you use all the bleeding edge OSS? How hard is it to port software?
I don't see any competition, where are the alternate PPC manufacturers?
As a side note: I don't really think I will buy a Mac ever, I'm an evilwm user who is fully satisfied with a Duron 800 and 256MB RAM.
... that they had to send out the C&Ds because the information just wasn't accurate. Yeah, it's a dual 940 system... but you can link two together to get a QUAD with 1.85 times the average speed... ... and since they run GCC, all their server software is together and debugged... ... and THAT would work to their advantage
Excuse me. I'm drooling. I've got to go wipe my mouth.
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
*yawn*
slower than a real dual xeon (available now), more expensive than a real dual xeon (available now) and
What did I hear? the "G5" still isn't available yet? how many more months to wait?
*yawn*
RST
Hi, I'm posting from the future after Steve has made his speech. You're so fucking wrong. So absolutely fucking wrong. It must hurt to be as stupid as you.
Thankyou.
*yawn*
Must hurt you to be in a reality distorted future. look at reality little dude.
G5 machines that are slower than a real dual xeon (available now), more expensive than a real dual xeon (available now) and what did I hear? the "G5" still isn't available yet? how many more months to wait?
Call me from the next future when G5s don't rely on steve faked benchmarks to pretend to be quicker than existing cheaper machines. Existing cheaper machines that WILL be faster by the time the real G5s ship
*yawn*
RST
A machine sold in 1997 is supposed to have a graphics card that drives an OS released in 2000? I don't expect my Dual 800 G4 to run OS XI (or whatever Apple's next next-generation OS will be called).
Oh look what's been released, and what it's been called! Apple have done the impossible.
Holy Shit, did aliens crash near Cupertino and Apple steal their technology, because they did the impossible again.Yeah, a month is a long time I guess