We were using the three-number notation in 1972 at IBM.
Hmmm.
I'm most comfortable with that kind of format. Anything much more than that fails the telephone test - how fast can one communicate the version number over a telephone without spitting? It's inadequate as a complete format without some kind of modifier for integration & test builds for internal tracking, but fine (IMNSHO) for user-facing version numbers.
And now, despite your 7 digit userid, I will quietly step off your lawn.
The guideline when I started with XEmacs was that major version numbers designated incompatible changes in emacs lisp byte code. The change XEmacs 19 -> 20 was over the inclusion of MULE.
20 -> 21 was pure marketing, I'll admit. There weren't any byte code changes, but XEmacs 20 had been labeled as "experimental" for so long, I wanted to get people off of XEmacs 19 once and for all.
The missing minor number 20.1 (there was an XEmacs 20.0 and 20.2, but never a released 20.1) was different. I discovered a catastrophic bug hours before planned release that we couldn't fix in time, so the release got canceled.
Richard Stallman's major version number changes tracked us to keep up and Emacs 22 was to one-up us.
Turbolinux bumped its major version number up several levels to keep up with the Red Hats, who in turn were trying to one-up Microsoft. How Microsoft came up with "7" for a release in 2009/2010 is beyond me. Perhaps they are going retro?
IOS version numbering is similar. We're going from IOS 12 to IOS 15 in part due to triskaidekaphobia and part due to the fact that someone determined that "14" is unlucky in China.
Some of the supposed oddities you might see are assertion of ownership. In open source, where developers don't own their code, the only thing they own is the version number. XEmacs' case was even worse as we could not change the name. "XEmacs" was a compromise between (the now sold-out) Sun and then bankrupt Lucid as a name everyone equally hated so it was neutral. Sigh.
Still, XEmacs 21.1 will always be "mine" in some sense of the word and the maintenance 21.1.x releases will be Vin Shelton's.
There are various reasons why a single monotonically increasing number do not work as a version number. The most important being that that does not allow for maintenance releases of older software while newer software is under development (and intermediate builds need to be tracked).
Disclaimer: I'm one of the designated maintainers of IOS version numbering, but I don't get to set the rules.
"Mission Accomplished!" was a copout and the weakest of the quotes, I admit. However, Neocon websites ate that stuff up and President Bush ran on a platform that was exactly opposite to what he ended up doing and there are no doubt juicy 1999/2000 campaign quotes to found, except that about all I could find was junk links about how Obama was just like predecessor.
Both Republicans and Democrats have proven that they can be equally scum-sucking pig dogs when voted into office. So hey, mark it down as Steve's attempt at being bipartisan.
My suspicion is that Kim Jung Il cares about his people more than any recent US President since Reagan and Kennedy. President Reagan had bad advisors (Neocons) who led him sstray. Kennedy made the mistake of not being the total mindless skirt chaser that Clinton is and instead tried to bring back real money and abolish the Federal Reserve. Or maybe Clinton just decided that chasing skirts was a better idea than getting his brains blown out.
We still have a two party system in the US, unfortunately it is the Neocons -vs- Goldman Sachs & Wall Street and neither have anyone's best interests in mind other than their own.
I would even say they are still obsessed and paranoid about the U.S attacking any minute. There are a lot of mentally unstable and brainwashed people in North Korea.
You could say the same thing with s/U.S/terrorists/ and s/North Korea/US/. Brainwashing is in the eye of the beholder...
"We had to bomb that village in order to save it"
"This is NOT an invasion of Cambodia"
"The US is too big to be governed by a single office" (Oh and please reelect me anyway)
"Read my lips, no new taxes"
"I did not have sex with that woman, MS Lewinsky"
"Mission Accomplished!"
"If elected, I'll start withdrawing troops from Iraq in March"
It's truly amazing what sort of brainwashing some people will accept.
Plus, it launched on July 4th, not a particularly significant day for North Koreans...
I find it interesting that I just read a British article on how the health of Kim Jong Il is failing that included the comment:
There are no obvious signs are that Kim Jong Il is in anything less than complete control but close examination of recent internal developments leads many Pyongyang-watchers fear to the conclusion that he appears to be preparing for a transition of power and leaning towards military hardliners instead of the more reform-oriented advisers he favoured earlier.
But really, what do they have to lose? The US and Europe have just announced that they will voluntarily kill what remains of their economies. If those "G8" clowns actually manage to carry out their plan, the future belongs to China and India. Actually, considering how much US debt China owns, the US future already belongs to China - bought and paid for.
This is slashdot. I can barely be bothered to read the summary let alone the article.
The summary did say this game was in beta which implies it is not for sale yet. So let me restate it in plainer words for the Microsoft Windows clingers - "Because there is a native Linux client for this game, I will buy it."
I hope it's a good game, but people like this must be encouraged and I vote with my pocketbook.
s/English/ASCII/ and I got plenty of complaints along those lines in my mailbox over the years. Supporting Asian languages can be expensive in terms of processing time. Japanese companies *can* be insular, been there done that. I have no experience with the CKV part.
Fortunately the state of the art in computing hardware has improved over the years and it's not as expensive as it used to be.
Their English web presence leaves something to be desired, but I agree with their mission statement - http://www.m17n.org/index.html Those are the guys who first did Asian language support for emacs. I worked with them for a year in Japan.
Incidentally, I initially got started programming by hacking an existing Lunar Lander clone written in GW-BASIC and provided with the family computer.
Yeah, that's a good idea. I was very, very lucky when I wanted to become a Unix expert in the mid 1980s. I had a System V-oid box at home and much of the code posted to the old Usenet source code newgroups (particularly games) were written for Berkeley Unix. Porting the stuff I was interested in to System V was as much fun as educational.
(The subject was the title of a research assignment I was once given in Jr. High School).
Gee, it's almost like they don't want people to learn to how to contribute.
There is no royal road to learning. It's very much an individual thing. You will find that in most serious projects, there are instructions as to how to go about contributing.
I can tell you how I did it...
First off, pick a project that interests you. You do not have to be any sort of an expert at first. Then, hang out where people are asking questions, user interface-wise, programming-wise, it doesn't particularly matter which though a combination of both helps. Then go through it and research the answers to the questions people are asking. Start posting answers when you get confidence in yourself.
Once you have a bit of reputation as someone who answers questions, it will not take much, you can offer your services doing documentation. Open source projects are always looking for people to do that. Probably someone will ask you first before you offer services. The best part is that documentation is what separates the pros from the rest of the field.
After you've done all that you're in a position to start tackling various programming assignments. These will vary from project to project. Start with simpler things first and work your way up.
In my case I went from answering various questions on comp.emacs, and later, comp.emacs.xemacs to getting interested in Gnus and writing the first Gnus 5 FAQ. When the XEmacs FAQ maintainer stepped down, I was ready to take that on too. Post 19.14 release, I tackled the barrage of questions and issues on comp.emacs.xemacs. By then, I was starting on doing various maintainer sorts of things like random bug fixes, synching newer lisp code and stuff like that.
When Chuck Thompson decided to step down in the autumn, they ended up asking me to take over in his place.
And yes, when I was Mr. XEmacs, I wrote letters of recommendation for every contributor who was looking for his first job out of college who asked.
If you're looking for cool random things to hack on just for the joy of programming, the ACM Programming Contest http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/22/1820229 has some interesting looking problems to solve. Perhaps choose a language you want to learn to write your solutions in.
Windows is for the people that use it. Mac is for the people that use it. But, Linux is for the people that write it.
Microsoft Windows is for the Microsoft shareholders to profit from. Macs are for the Apple shareholders to profit from.
There, fixed that for you.
You can rip me all you want, but just look at all the project managers of various Linux things, and their postings, and the things that strike you is that they are all about "me" first. Stallman, Torvalds, etc, are all pretty self-centered people.
I won't speak for anyone else, but the reason that I got into XEmacs project management was that XEmacs 19.14 was a lovely rose... that smelled bad. Once it was stable, pretty fast and did everything I needed it to do (XEmacs 21.1) I lost interest. If that's self-centered, whatever.
Since I now support IOS[1] and a host of other proprietary CSCO products, does that make me a better person than the evil open source project manager I used to be? Just asking.
IMNSHO you're painting Linus with the wrong brush. I've long been of the opinion that someone should collect up his postings and edit them into a text book. It could be as important as The Bible - Elements of Programming Style http://www.amazon.com/Elements-Programming-Style-Brian-Kernighan/dp/0070342075 , the most significant computer book ever written.
so all the noob 10-year olds can get back to the faction of fairies and adolescents playing as hot chicks.
There certainly seems to be some advantage to that. If you're going to spend dozens if not hundreds of days[1] staring at a butt in the middle of your screen playing a game, shouldn't it be something you enjoy looking at?
Just asking.
As a representative of the Horde we'd like to return belfs to the Alliance
As Ambassador of the Alliance and Champion of the Draenei, no thank you.
[1] Our guild record is 147 days of/played. Not me, whew.
Yeah honestly I made 90 gold with a lvl 19 character mining copper and selling it in AH for 1g a stack.
It was level 40 the first time I bought a ground mount. I very nearly had 100g by fishing up Mr. Stonescale Eel and selling it in the AH. Borrowed maybe 10 or 15g from a guildie when I hit 40 and then paid it back *before* I bought all my level 40 class training.
The 2nd time I bought a first ground mount (my second overall, I had switched mains in the meantime), I had enough gold on my own and had exalted with SW City so I could get a horse instead of an Elekk.
I'm leveling a priest now and I sure could have used a ground mount between 20 and 30. Darkshore/Ashenvale are pretty cool places to level up, but they sure suck up time getting from place to place while questing.
I'm reading that patch 3.2 they will be lowering first mount to lvl 20 and other mount lvls will be lowered to. What? Is Blizzard going to get to the point where you get a mount at lvl 1.
That part I strongly disagree with. I didn't like lowering the first mount requirement - it takes away the class bonuses from Druid Travel Form and Shaman Ghost Wolf Form.
Noobs need to pay their dues in sweat.
To some extent, I agree. Every single highest level mount I bought on my way to my first epic flyer required borrowed gold from a guildie (all of which was paid back with interest).
The epic flyer mount cost was "fixed" by adding all the Quel'Danas daily quests that paid quite good gold when level 70 was the cap. That doesn't work so well with a level 80 cap.
But someone really needs to redefine MMORPGs because the concept is getting old and played.
Blizzard says they're doing that, but the oldest profession in the world is still the most lucrative...
I would be extremely surprised if they make this something that lets you randomly switch back and forth from day to day.
This is Slashdot, you aren't expected to actually read the article.
The Blizzard blue poster wrote in TFA:
As with all of the features and services we offer, we intend to incorporate the faction-change service in a way that won't disrupt the gameplay experience on the realms, and there will be some rules involved with when and how the service can be used
I anticipate that it will be done similar to how realm transfers are done now, with an emphasis on easing factional imbalances.
However, I think the whole clean slate idea is stupid.
You misunderstand. "Wiping the slate clean" in WoW terms is that within a level or two into a new expansion you get access to greens and blues with the power of purples that took months of grinding from the previous cap.
They pretty much have to do something like that for newer players who sign up after the expansion comes out.
It would be interesting if players could become outcasts to their own faction and become open to "attack on sight" by all alliance and horde and visa-versa; sort of like bandits.
They originally had that. I remember reading about it in the manual. Kill enough guards and you could eventually become KOS to your own faction. That feature was removed by the time I started.
The lore does not accomodate that. An Orc who tried to join the alliance would be slain or at least ostracized. It's rare that the factions intermingle. They don't speak the same languages. They've slaughtered each others families. Etc.
I see you haven't made your triumphant return to SW City (or where ever hordie Death Knights go) after you've turned your back on Arthas.
One of the quests you have to complete before you graduate from the training area is to go into town and kill cowering women and children who do not fight back.
There certainly is precedent for this, but please, all you Belfs, stay Horde. Please.
Slashdot Mirror
We were using the three-number notation in 1972 at IBM.
Hmmm.
I'm most comfortable with that kind of format. Anything much more than that fails the telephone test - how fast can one communicate the version number over a telephone without spitting? It's inadequate as a complete format without some kind of modifier for integration & test builds for internal tracking, but fine (IMNSHO) for user-facing version numbers.
And now, despite your 7 digit userid, I will quietly step off your lawn.
Much of this is really up to marketing.
The guideline when I started with XEmacs was that major version numbers designated incompatible changes in emacs lisp byte code. The change XEmacs 19 -> 20 was over the inclusion of MULE.
20 -> 21 was pure marketing, I'll admit. There weren't any byte code changes, but XEmacs 20 had been labeled as "experimental" for so long, I wanted to get people off of XEmacs 19 once and for all.
The missing minor number 20.1 (there was an XEmacs 20.0 and 20.2, but never a released 20.1) was different. I discovered a catastrophic bug hours before planned release that we couldn't fix in time, so the release got canceled.
Richard Stallman's major version number changes tracked us to keep up and Emacs 22 was to one-up us.
Turbolinux bumped its major version number up several levels to keep up with the Red Hats, who in turn were trying to one-up Microsoft. How Microsoft came up with "7" for a release in 2009/2010 is beyond me. Perhaps they are going retro?
IOS version numbering is similar. We're going from IOS 12 to IOS 15 in part due to triskaidekaphobia and part due to the fact that someone determined that "14" is unlucky in China.
Some of the supposed oddities you might see are assertion of ownership. In open source, where developers don't own their code, the only thing they own is the version number. XEmacs' case was even worse as we could not change the name. "XEmacs" was a compromise between (the now sold-out) Sun and then bankrupt Lucid as a name everyone equally hated so it was neutral. Sigh.
Still, XEmacs 21.1 will always be "mine" in some sense of the word and the maintenance 21.1.x releases will be Vin Shelton's.
There are various reasons why a single monotonically increasing number do not work as a version number. The most important being that that does not allow for maintenance releases of older software while newer software is under development (and intermediate builds need to be tracked).
Disclaimer: I'm one of the designated maintainers of IOS version numbering, but I don't get to set the rules.
Does this mean I can go out on the streets dancing naked and burning my Linux and OS X DVDs?
Do not take this golden opportunity and flush it down the toilet. A specific programming language is irrelevant to skill in programming.
(Writing as someone who has interviewed programmers for positions before).
Who believes that shit, though?
Quite a lot of people, from my experience.
"Mission Accomplished!" was a copout and the weakest of the quotes, I admit. However, Neocon websites ate that stuff up and President Bush ran on a platform that was exactly opposite to what he ended up doing and there are no doubt juicy 1999/2000 campaign quotes to found, except that about all I could find was junk links about how Obama was just like predecessor.
Both Republicans and Democrats have proven that they can be equally scum-sucking pig dogs when voted into office. So hey, mark it down as Steve's attempt at being bipartisan.
My suspicion is that Kim Jung Il cares about his people more than any recent US President since Reagan and Kennedy. President Reagan had bad advisors (Neocons) who led him sstray. Kennedy made the mistake of not being the total mindless skirt chaser that Clinton is and instead tried to bring back real money and abolish the Federal Reserve. Or maybe Clinton just decided that chasing skirts was a better idea than getting his brains blown out.
We still have a two party system in the US, unfortunately it is the Neocons -vs- Goldman Sachs & Wall Street and neither have anyone's best interests in mind other than their own.
I would even say they are still obsessed and paranoid about the U.S attacking any minute. There are a lot of mentally unstable and brainwashed people in North Korea.
You could say the same thing with s/U.S/terrorists/ and s/North Korea/US/. Brainwashing is in the eye of the beholder...
"We had to bomb that village in order to save it"
"This is NOT an invasion of Cambodia"
"The US is too big to be governed by a single office" (Oh and please reelect me anyway)
"Read my lips, no new taxes"
"I did not have sex with that woman, MS Lewinsky"
"Mission Accomplished!"
"If elected, I'll start withdrawing troops from Iraq in March"
It's truly amazing what sort of brainwashing some people will accept.
Plus, it launched on July 4th, not a particularly significant day for North Koreans...
I find it interesting that I just read a British article on how the health of Kim Jong Il is failing that included the comment:
There are no obvious signs are that Kim Jong Il is in anything less than complete control but close examination of recent internal developments leads many Pyongyang-watchers fear to the conclusion that he appears to be preparing for a transition of power and leaning towards military hardliners instead of the more reform-oriented advisers he favoured earlier.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6670248.ece
But really, what do they have to lose? The US and Europe have just announced that they will voluntarily kill what remains of their economies. If those "G8" clowns actually manage to carry out their plan, the future belongs to China and India. Actually, considering how much US debt China owns, the US future already belongs to China - bought and paid for.
I use Level3's anycast dns resolvers. They are fast and work great.
Hmmm. Those appear to be IP numbers I get via DHCP.
They are not trouble-free. I frequently see issues resolving certain top-level domains. .jp is flaky as is .info.
At least they don't redirect.
Will this cause people to no longer see this custom 'page not found', and replace it with their own? Because if so, that'd piss me off.
That would depend on the typo. Mistyping http://www.bar.com/index.html as http://www.bar.com/index.htm would still go to your site, assuming you own bar.com. Mistyping as http://foowww.bar.com/index.html, would presumably be redirected if you don't have a DNS record for `foowww.bar.com'.
Check out Savage 2 for example which is a great game and available for Linux
for free:
I'll check that out, thanks, but I'd *much* rather _buy_ something from them that runs on Linux.
This is slashdot. I can barely be bothered to read the summary let alone the article.
The summary did say this game was in beta which implies it is not for sale yet. So let me restate it in plainer words for the Microsoft Windows clingers - "Because there is a native Linux client for this game, I will buy it."
I hope it's a good game, but people like this must be encouraged and I vote with my pocketbook.
A Linux client? I'll buy it. Where do I sign up?
I'm not sure why this was modded offtopic.
s/English/ASCII/ and I got plenty of complaints along those lines in my mailbox over the years. Supporting Asian languages can be expensive in terms of processing time. Japanese companies *can* be insular, been there done that. I have no experience with the CKV part.
Fortunately the state of the art in computing hardware has improved over the years and it's not as expensive as it used to be.
Their English web presence leaves something to be desired, but I agree with their mission statement - http://www.m17n.org/index.html Those are the guys who first did Asian language support for emacs. I worked with them for a year in Japan.
You really expect the editor to RTFA?
No, but you'd expect the submitter to.
You must be new here.
Incidentally, I initially got started programming by hacking an existing Lunar Lander clone written in GW-BASIC and provided with the family computer.
Yeah, that's a good idea. I was very, very lucky when I wanted to become a Unix expert in the mid 1980s. I had a System V-oid box at home and much of the code posted to the old Usenet source code newgroups (particularly games) were written for Berkeley Unix. Porting the stuff I was interested in to System V was as much fun as educational.
(The subject was the title of a research assignment I was once given in Jr. High School).
Gee, it's almost like they don't want people to learn to how to contribute.
There is no royal road to learning. It's very much an individual thing. You will find that in most serious projects, there are instructions as to how to go about contributing.
I can tell you how I did it ...
First off, pick a project that interests you. You do not have to be any sort of an expert at first. Then, hang out where people are asking questions, user interface-wise, programming-wise, it doesn't particularly matter which though a combination of both helps. Then go through it and research the answers to the questions people are asking. Start posting answers when you get confidence in yourself.
Once you have a bit of reputation as someone who answers questions, it will not take much, you can offer your services doing documentation. Open source projects are always looking for people to do that. Probably someone will ask you first before you offer services. The best part is that documentation is what separates the pros from the rest of the field.
After you've done all that you're in a position to start tackling various programming assignments. These will vary from project to project. Start with simpler things first and work your way up.
In my case I went from answering various questions on comp.emacs, and later, comp.emacs.xemacs to getting interested in Gnus and writing the first Gnus 5 FAQ. When the XEmacs FAQ maintainer stepped down, I was ready to take that on too. Post 19.14 release, I tackled the barrage of questions and issues on comp.emacs.xemacs. By then, I was starting on doing various maintainer sorts of things like random bug fixes, synching newer lisp code and stuff like that.
When Chuck Thompson decided to step down in the autumn, they ended up asking me to take over in his place.
And yes, when I was Mr. XEmacs, I wrote letters of recommendation for every contributor who was looking for his first job out of college who asked.
If you're looking for cool random things to hack on just for the joy of programming, the ACM Programming Contest http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/22/1820229 has some interesting looking problems to solve. Perhaps choose a language you want to learn to write your solutions in.
In any of those examples, does it talk about standing around and chatting with people?
No and you left out something - all those idiots who chat in the /trade channel in WoW. Is it any wonder why most of us hate them?
Sigh.
Windows is for the people that use it. Mac is for the people that use it. But, Linux is for the people that write it.
Microsoft Windows is for the Microsoft shareholders to profit from. Macs are for the Apple shareholders to profit from.
There, fixed that for you.
You can rip me all you want, but just look at all the project managers of various Linux things, and their postings, and the things that strike you is that they are all about "me" first. Stallman, Torvalds, etc, are all pretty self-centered people.
<sarcasm>Me, me, me! Neener, neener, neener!</sarcasm>
I won't speak for anyone else, but the reason that I got into XEmacs project management was that XEmacs 19.14 was a lovely rose ... that smelled bad. Once it was stable, pretty fast and did everything I needed it to do (XEmacs 21.1) I lost interest. If that's self-centered, whatever.
Since I now support IOS[1] and a host of other proprietary CSCO products, does that make me a better person than the evil open source project manager I used to be? Just asking.
IMNSHO you're painting Linus with the wrong brush. I've long been of the opinion that someone should collect up his postings and edit them into a text book. It could be as important as The Bible - Elements of Programming Style http://www.amazon.com/Elements-Programming-Style-Brian-Kernighan/dp/0070342075 , the most significant computer book ever written.
[1] And use XEmacs doing so ...
so all the noob 10-year olds can get back to the faction of fairies and adolescents playing as hot chicks.
There certainly seems to be some advantage to that. If you're going to spend dozens if not hundreds of days[1] staring at a butt in the middle of your screen playing a game, shouldn't it be something you enjoy looking at?
Just asking.
As a representative of the Horde we'd like to return belfs to the Alliance
As Ambassador of the Alliance and Champion of the Draenei, no thank you.
[1] Our guild record is 147 days of /played. Not me, whew.
Yeah honestly I made 90 gold with a lvl 19 character mining copper and selling it in AH for 1g a stack.
It was level 40 the first time I bought a ground mount. I very nearly had 100g by fishing up Mr. Stonescale Eel and selling it in the AH. Borrowed maybe 10 or 15g from a guildie when I hit 40 and then paid it back *before* I bought all my level 40 class training.
The 2nd time I bought a first ground mount (my second overall, I had switched mains in the meantime), I had enough gold on my own and had exalted with SW City so I could get a horse instead of an Elekk.
I'm leveling a priest now and I sure could have used a ground mount between 20 and 30. Darkshore/Ashenvale are pretty cool places to level up, but they sure suck up time getting from place to place while questing.
I'm reading that patch 3.2 they will be lowering first mount to lvl 20 and other mount lvls will be lowered to. What? Is Blizzard going to get to the point where you get a mount at lvl 1.
That part I strongly disagree with. I didn't like lowering the first mount requirement - it takes away the class bonuses from Druid Travel Form and Shaman Ghost Wolf Form.
Noobs need to pay their dues in sweat.
To some extent, I agree. Every single highest level mount I bought on my way to my first epic flyer required borrowed gold from a guildie (all of which was paid back with interest).
The epic flyer mount cost was "fixed" by adding all the Quel'Danas daily quests that paid quite good gold when level 70 was the cap. That doesn't work so well with a level 80 cap.
But someone really needs to redefine MMORPGs because the concept is getting old and played.
Blizzard says they're doing that, but the oldest profession in the world is still the most lucrative ...
I would be extremely surprised if they make this something that lets you randomly switch back and forth from day to day.
This is Slashdot, you aren't expected to actually read the article.
The Blizzard blue poster wrote in TFA:
As with all of the features and services we offer, we intend to incorporate the faction-change service in a way that won't disrupt the gameplay experience on the realms, and there will be some rules involved with when and how the service can be used
I anticipate that it will be done similar to how realm transfers are done now, with an emphasis on easing factional imbalances.
However, I think the whole clean slate idea is stupid.
You misunderstand. "Wiping the slate clean" in WoW terms is that within a level or two into a new expansion you get access to greens and blues with the power of purples that took months of grinding from the previous cap.
They pretty much have to do something like that for newer players who sign up after the expansion comes out.
It would be interesting if players could become outcasts to their own faction and become open to "attack on sight" by all alliance and horde and visa-versa; sort of like bandits.
They originally had that. I remember reading about it in the manual. Kill enough guards and you could eventually become KOS to your own faction. That feature was removed by the time I started.
The lore does not accomodate that. An Orc who tried to join the alliance would be slain or at least ostracized. It's rare that the factions intermingle. They don't speak the same languages. They've slaughtered each others families. Etc.
I see you haven't made your triumphant return to SW City (or where ever hordie Death Knights go) after you've turned your back on Arthas.
One of the quests you have to complete before you graduate from the training area is to go into town and kill cowering women and children who do not fight back.
There certainly is precedent for this, but please, all you Belfs, stay Horde. Please.