Right glad I'm not the only one who thinks that about the recruiters. I have been doing to careers fairs and chatting to people there, which worked out quite well. I noticed most major companies only recruit direct. Google for instance has a notice in their site saying they won't touch agencies (so go away). It's unfortunate though for smaller companies and start-ups as they can't get the same brand exposure.
My OH uses Groupon for bagging offers, but I'm more the sceptic who looks at these and says "too good to be true". Much like you say, sold extras.
I see what you mean now about the article being a poor estimate at best. When I wrote that I misinterpreted it as a report via the photographer who was claiming he was at a loss and thus someone else drummed up an article around it. I now see what the article is, thanks.
I feel I have to reply to all of these posts, so thanks, that was a nice post.
Money is unfortunately an issue. As you've said, live lean, which I agree with entirely. When I finish this degree I'll move back home with the parents, but unfortunately my OH lives a £35 return train journey away and is already established living/working. The problem is, I can't live off her, because she can barely live off herself at the moment, living in London and having just started up self-employed. You wouldn't believe the cost of rental there. As long as I can get some form of work, we should be okay renting together - so there's at least a fallback there.
Anyway, this means I'm tied to engineering jobs in that region. I figure there Must be some around. Given the population down in London, there must be something I'm suited for. If I'm running dry when I've finished the degree I'll probably do some application (like apps for something mobile) development for practise. Thats a good direction, right? I guess it'll help me improve my skills a little, in the learn-by-doing way.
I'm unfortunately fearful of any ignorance I've added to my self-taught skills. Which leads me to say things like "I have written some C" rather than "I can Do C".
Thanks. It's still got me a bit shaken but I've given up trying to look for jobs whilst finishing the last stint of the degree (exams next month) due to mostly stress of doing both interviews and exams at the same time. I guess one of the hard parts is identifying potential employers. Not everyone carries a brand name, and finding them is proving to be harder than I originally envisioned.
Especially when agencies get involved. There's this whole "my client is looking for... " and they've added their own spin to the requirements put out by HR via the actual department recruiting, which makes it a mine field of good and bad jobs. I wish agencies would post Who they were recruiting for, but then that would defeat the system, I know.
I can't tell who's fail it is. Was it Groupon for not allowing a finite amount of offers to be sold (or notifying the photographer to set a finite amount), or was it the photographer for not gauging his limits as to how many at-cost shoots he can feasibly, and thus setting his "sales limit" too high. TFA shows he sold 301, but was that His limit, or Theirs? I figure it was set by the photographer, and therefore he screwed up by pre-agreeing to do more than he was able.
I'm glad it's not just me then. If I don't get anything, well, I have no idea what I'll do. Probably have to leech of my girlfriend, flip burgers and try to survive on nothing whilst funding some arbitrary "project" to show off to make me more hire-able. But having time to put together some show pieces whilst doing my degree, is almost impossible, unless I want another nervous breakdown.
It's annoying. What some people don't get is our software modules for embedded programming went something like this:
Get given coursework at term start
Get shown a very few functionalities of $Language (I'm talking, objects exist, use them, off you go)
Get given deadline
Left to it.
This was my C, my C++ and in fact, the final piece of my architecture module. Luckily I realised fairly quickly we were being dropped in it and had to teach ourselves, but there's only a finite amount of time one can dedicate to each coursework piece before it has to be handed in, and then time is lost to other work. I'd never confidently say I was very good at these languages. I'd say I can do them. I hit all the requirements each time and always got good marks. I think I got a first for each coursework piece, but if it was shown to someone who Was an embedded programmer I'd cringe. Mostly because I can't say "yeah this is how I was taught using X practises", rather "yeah, that's how I worked it out with no formal training" which makes me feel bad, to say the least.
I guess you're right, sigh. Mostly I went for something outside usual scope to try to prove I could learn another language elsewhere and PHP was what we had available as a project that needed prototyping for the department, so I took it up. I didn't realise some jobs that recruited CS pushed back into EE. It does make sense if you're going from the top down into embedded. Part of it is I really don't quite know what I want to do.
I like programming, but most of my experience is embedded, as is the knowledge that goes with it. We get taught a lot about ARM systems, for instance. But I figured this was getting so niche as far as embedded design/driver/software systems that it's going to be difficult to find something proper straight out of uni. Hence I aimed myself more at the general software market, where there's at least more jobs, but it seems I'm really not suited for them as an EE.
And yes, the take it or leave it comment was a bit much from me. Sorry.
Heh thanks, at least there seems to be some positive outlook from the other engineers on here. I was going to grab a Beagle board at some point (no money right now) to play with. Not actually programmed anything beyond an Arm9 at uni on some of our sim systems. It was fairly straight forward to do once we were given documentation that was correct and not missing, well, the important bits about the simulator board. It just feels like everyone wants web/java programmers right now and there's not much for me to go into. I'd love to do embedded programming instead but finding someone who's recruiting that, right now in the current job climate doesn't feel particularly fun.
I chose a web project because I wanted to prove I could write something beyond C, but I still like the embedded stuff.
So you're one of those types who has a lot of knowledge but won't spread it to others capable of learning and instead will just keep it to yourself til you retire. Good job! Post on your real account.
No, just nothing outside my degree that I'd honestly portfolio. I have, hm, a Cache Simlulation system, a web project that count as half-decent programs. The latter being a project module, the former being a coursework item. I wouldn't want to demo any of those or send them in, given they're both early/first language attempts. My DB system is the first time I'd done anything as a web app, and this is only the second C++ program I've done. I think it would be arrogant of me to say "here are two different programs that I'm proud of". They're not. They're two programs where I've learned as I've gone along, so contain good bits and bad bits. Anyway, I'm not sure what a Cache system would mean to a corporate Java developer.
This is pretty much how I feel, wanting to get into the system as is. Right now I'm completely put off wanting to go near it due to the experience boundaries set up by every advert I've seen.
I really don't like any of these replies, but I'm choosing this one to reply to.
I'm an Electronic Engineer, with a curiosity in programming. I've done a C module (where I self-taught because we weren't actually taught anything), a C++ module the following year, same thing, an Architecture module, where I did Assembly, and my final year project is PHP/MySQL/HTML/AJAX (Completely self taught).
It seems most recruiting jobs around at the moment want CompSci students for everything, who have a larger software background without considering others.
I've decided by the standards of "what the job market wants" for graduates, by graduate standards I am not even remotely a "programmer". I will happily admit my skills have flaws, being self-taught some things just don't click as easily, or possibly, accurately. Basically, opening me up to self-set bad habits or ignorances of functionality. There's this whole "bring your pet projects" thing, which people like me have no time for. I have spent my final year day to day Busy doing work for the degree. I don't have time for working on some random OSS project to be completely honest.
So I get a degree, yet if I want to go into software, I need to re-educate myself, apparently, and make a few arbitrary or contribute to some group project that would take a while to understand before being able to have something added to say I've helped. So, on what money do I do this? If I was going for, say a grad-job where I was going to do Java, guess what, I'd expect to be able to learn it on the job.
No, here's what you get out of me: I know enough to get-by with a few languages, I know how to learn other languages. I am a quick learner, in general and I am intelligent. I do not know everything. Take it or leave it.
If they won't tell you why it's been locked at all, write a kind short email to Gabe and ask nicely. If you're lucky he'll poke the right person and give you a real answer, I'd hope. I understand he's quite proud of his service, so having bad custom is not helpful to the business.
Information Commissioner's Office is currently looking into it officially. They're responsible for enforcing the Data Protection Act. I understand the ICO actually does a reasonable job for a government office too.
I'm not sure that would stick in England. I think Small Claims would just say "give him a new phone" if you ever dragged a company to it for bricking it via re-flash. Companies can't just arbitrarily say "this voids the warranty", as that's a legal requirement over here to protect the consumer. Especially if they encourage you to mod it, then they have to honour that as part of the product feature-set and therefore falls into the boundaries of things covered by warranty.
Visual programming is to programming, what 3D is to displays. Hey maybe we can have 3D visual programming on a trusted platform touch screen desktop - in "HD". Yeah...No
Slashdot Mirror
Right glad I'm not the only one who thinks that about the recruiters. I have been doing to careers fairs and chatting to people there, which worked out quite well. I noticed most major companies only recruit direct. Google for instance has a notice in their site saying they won't touch agencies (so go away). It's unfortunate though for smaller companies and start-ups as they can't get the same brand exposure.
My OH uses Groupon for bagging offers, but I'm more the sceptic who looks at these and says "too good to be true". Much like you say, sold extras.
I see what you mean now about the article being a poor estimate at best. When I wrote that I misinterpreted it as a report via the photographer who was claiming he was at a loss and thus someone else drummed up an article around it. I now see what the article is, thanks.
I feel I have to reply to all of these posts, so thanks, that was a nice post.
Money is unfortunately an issue. As you've said, live lean, which I agree with entirely. When I finish this degree I'll move back home with the parents, but unfortunately my OH lives a £35 return train journey away and is already established living/working. The problem is, I can't live off her, because she can barely live off herself at the moment, living in London and having just started up self-employed. You wouldn't believe the cost of rental there. As long as I can get some form of work, we should be okay renting together - so there's at least a fallback there.
Anyway, this means I'm tied to engineering jobs in that region. I figure there Must be some around. Given the population down in London, there must be something I'm suited for. If I'm running dry when I've finished the degree I'll probably do some application (like apps for something mobile) development for practise. Thats a good direction, right? I guess it'll help me improve my skills a little, in the learn-by-doing way.
I'm unfortunately fearful of any ignorance I've added to my self-taught skills. Which leads me to say things like "I have written some C" rather than "I can Do C".
Thanks. It's still got me a bit shaken but I've given up trying to look for jobs whilst finishing the last stint of the degree (exams next month) due to mostly stress of doing both interviews and exams at the same time. I guess one of the hard parts is identifying potential employers. Not everyone carries a brand name, and finding them is proving to be harder than I originally envisioned.
... " and they've added their own spin to the requirements put out by HR via the actual department recruiting, which makes it a mine field of good and bad jobs. I wish agencies would post Who they were recruiting for, but then that would defeat the system, I know.
Especially when agencies get involved. There's this whole "my client is looking for
I can't tell who's fail it is. Was it Groupon for not allowing a finite amount of offers to be sold (or notifying the photographer to set a finite amount), or was it the photographer for not gauging his limits as to how many at-cost shoots he can feasibly, and thus setting his "sales limit" too high. TFA shows he sold 301, but was that His limit, or Theirs? I figure it was set by the photographer, and therefore he screwed up by pre-agreeing to do more than he was able.
I'm glad it's not just me then. If I don't get anything, well, I have no idea what I'll do. Probably have to leech of my girlfriend, flip burgers and try to survive on nothing whilst funding some arbitrary "project" to show off to make me more hire-able. But having time to put together some show pieces whilst doing my degree, is almost impossible, unless I want another nervous breakdown.
It's annoying. What some people don't get is our software modules for embedded programming went something like this:
Get given coursework at term start
Get shown a very few functionalities of $Language (I'm talking, objects exist, use them, off you go)
Get given deadline
Left to it.
This was my C, my C++ and in fact, the final piece of my architecture module. Luckily I realised fairly quickly we were being dropped in it and had to teach ourselves, but there's only a finite amount of time one can dedicate to each coursework piece before it has to be handed in, and then time is lost to other work. I'd never confidently say I was very good at these languages. I'd say I can do them. I hit all the requirements each time and always got good marks. I think I got a first for each coursework piece, but if it was shown to someone who Was an embedded programmer I'd cringe. Mostly because I can't say "yeah this is how I was taught using X practises", rather "yeah, that's how I worked it out with no formal training" which makes me feel bad, to say the least.
I guess you're right, sigh. Mostly I went for something outside usual scope to try to prove I could learn another language elsewhere and PHP was what we had available as a project that needed prototyping for the department, so I took it up. I didn't realise some jobs that recruited CS pushed back into EE. It does make sense if you're going from the top down into embedded. Part of it is I really don't quite know what I want to do.
I like programming, but most of my experience is embedded, as is the knowledge that goes with it. We get taught a lot about ARM systems, for instance. But I figured this was getting so niche as far as embedded design/driver/software systems that it's going to be difficult to find something proper straight out of uni. Hence I aimed myself more at the general software market, where there's at least more jobs, but it seems I'm really not suited for them as an EE.
And yes, the take it or leave it comment was a bit much from me. Sorry.
Heh thanks, at least there seems to be some positive outlook from the other engineers on here. I was going to grab a Beagle board at some point (no money right now) to play with. Not actually programmed anything beyond an Arm9 at uni on some of our sim systems. It was fairly straight forward to do once we were given documentation that was correct and not missing, well, the important bits about the simulator board. It just feels like everyone wants web/java programmers right now and there's not much for me to go into. I'd love to do embedded programming instead but finding someone who's recruiting that, right now in the current job climate doesn't feel particularly fun.
I chose a web project because I wanted to prove I could write something beyond C, but I still like the embedded stuff.
So you're one of those types who has a lot of knowledge but won't spread it to others capable of learning and instead will just keep it to yourself til you retire. Good job! Post on your real account.
No, just nothing outside my degree that I'd honestly portfolio. I have, hm, a Cache Simlulation system, a web project that count as half-decent programs. The latter being a project module, the former being a coursework item. I wouldn't want to demo any of those or send them in, given they're both early/first language attempts. My DB system is the first time I'd done anything as a web app, and this is only the second C++ program I've done. I think it would be arrogant of me to say "here are two different programs that I'm proud of". They're not. They're two programs where I've learned as I've gone along, so contain good bits and bad bits. Anyway, I'm not sure what a Cache system would mean to a corporate Java developer.
This is pretty much how I feel, wanting to get into the system as is. Right now I'm completely put off wanting to go near it due to the experience boundaries set up by every advert I've seen.
I really don't like any of these replies, but I'm choosing this one to reply to.
I'm an Electronic Engineer, with a curiosity in programming. I've done a C module (where I self-taught because we weren't actually taught anything), a C++ module the following year, same thing, an Architecture module, where I did Assembly, and my final year project is PHP/MySQL/HTML/AJAX (Completely self taught).
It seems most recruiting jobs around at the moment want CompSci students for everything, who have a larger software background without considering others.
I've decided by the standards of "what the job market wants" for graduates, by graduate standards I am not even remotely a "programmer". I will happily admit my skills have flaws, being self-taught some things just don't click as easily, or possibly, accurately. Basically, opening me up to self-set bad habits or ignorances of functionality. There's this whole "bring your pet projects" thing, which people like me have no time for. I have spent my final year day to day Busy doing work for the degree. I don't have time for working on some random OSS project to be completely honest.
So I get a degree, yet if I want to go into software, I need to re-educate myself, apparently, and make a few arbitrary or contribute to some group project that would take a while to understand before being able to have something added to say I've helped. So, on what money do I do this? If I was going for, say a grad-job where I was going to do Java, guess what, I'd expect to be able to learn it on the job.
No, here's what you get out of me: I know enough to get-by with a few languages, I know how to learn other languages. I am a quick learner, in general and I am intelligent. I do not know everything. Take it or leave it.
If they won't tell you why it's been locked at all, write a kind short email to Gabe and ask nicely. If you're lucky he'll poke the right person and give you a real answer, I'd hope. I understand he's quite proud of his service, so having bad custom is not helpful to the business.
Information Commissioner's Office is currently looking into it officially. They're responsible for enforcing the Data Protection Act. I understand the ICO actually does a reasonable job for a government office too.
I'm not sure that would stick in England. I think Small Claims would just say "give him a new phone" if you ever dragged a company to it for bricking it via re-flash. Companies can't just arbitrarily say "this voids the warranty", as that's a legal requirement over here to protect the consumer. Especially if they encourage you to mod it, then they have to honour that as part of the product feature-set and therefore falls into the boundaries of things covered by warranty.
Step 1: Put missile detectors in space
Step 2: Put missiles in space.
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit.
What he said.
I read that as Troll booths. But then again, it's so true.
Visual programming is a dream that will not die.
Visual programming is to programming, what 3D is to displays. Hey maybe we can have 3D visual programming on a trusted platform touch screen desktop - in "HD". Yeah...No
Yeah but generally it's best if they're just put down. It prevents further incompetence in the future.
Doing It Wrong!
Yeah I mean seriously, who'd have known DNF might actually come out...
No mod points, but have an agreement instead.
Course they can, they just pay some chinese kid to follow you instead of doing it digitally. Call it analogue tracking systems...