AMD was (before haswel) not too bad if you have a multithreaded workload.
Thanks to the XboxONE with 8 cores games will run better on AMD as they will become more threaded since many are crappy xbox ports.
For a cheap box to run VM images in virtualbox/vmware workstation, video editing, or compiling code AMD offers a great value and the bios does not cripple virtualization extensions unlike the cheap ones from intel.
FYI I switched to an i7 4770k for my current system so I am not an AMD fanboy. But I paid through the nose for hyperthreading and 4 cores. I wanted good IPC for single threaded as well.
AMD dropped the ball twice. Both with abandoning the superior 5 year old phenom II which is still 25% faster per clock ticket than their newest system??? Second selling their fabrication plants to raise the shareprice last decade. They have.28 nm chips while intel is busy switching to.10nm??! How can you compete agains't that? Worse global foundaries are more interested in ARM chips as AMD has too low demand. OUCH.
Even if you love Intel it is in your best interest for AMD to stick around for competition and lower prices.
In SWTOR I got a doubling of FPS from moving from a PhenomII black edition to an i7 4770k.
I would be surprised if that were not the case. The i7-4770k came out 5 years after the Phenom II - a lot happened in that time, including the entire Phenom line being discontinued and succeeded by newer architectures. I'd be more interested in a comparison between the i7-4770k and its 30%-cheaper contemporary, the FX-9590 (naturally, expecting the i7-4770k still to win to some degree if we focus purely on single-thread performance, but is that worth it? Once SWTOR is no-longer CPU-bound you wouldn't see any difference between the two at all).
Here is the quicker. The half decade old phenom II is faster per clock cycle than the FX series based on the bulldozer architecture?? AMD really messed up as it was optimized for its graphics hoping it would win this way. In other words those mocking it call it Pentium IV 2.0
Do you have a link for that? It's not that I disbelieve you, I strongly suspect that Intel would do that crap. I'd like to read more about it however if you hae a link handy, then stash the link for the next time this benchmark comes up.
Personally, I like the Phoronix Linux benchmarks. They're more meaningful for me since I use Linux and they're all based on GCC which is trustworthy.
The i7 4770 ocasionally blows away the FX8350 by a factor of 2, but in many benchmarks they're close, and Intel loses a fair fraction. The 4770 is the best overall performer, but not by all that much. It seems that the choice of CPU is fairly workload dependent.
For servers, I still prefer the supermicro 4s opteron boxes. 64 cores, 512G RAM, 1U. Nice.
The i7 4770k is a fairly high end chip by Intel. I own one but I would not expect to find one in a sub 700. It is not a Xeon, but it is just 1 notch down from the $900 extreme edition so it is 2nd highest in consumer non server chips.
Well sites like tomshardware.com make it look like a Pentium or i3 can smoke the latest AMD black edition fresh out of the water. However, biased or not my real world experience says otherwise as many games are optimized for intel and use NVidia specific directX extensions with their studio software which boils a lot of AMD users blood but it is the truth.
In SWTOR I got a doubling of FPS from moving from a PhenomII black edition to an i7 4770k. True it has less cores but apps are optimized still for single tasking and I do have 4 real and 4 hyperthreaded cores for my VMs.
Reason being are games are crappy xbox ports. The 360 I think was single or dual core so games were single threaded. Therefore they kick ass on Intel. The only good news is the xboxONE is changing this with 8 cores with an AMD and forcing game makers to optimize more for ATI.
I expect the newer games to be more competitive as a result as they are more threaded and ATI optimized on tomshardware.com and other sites.
But damage is done and the power is much better with intel chips as they leave AMD further and further in the dust with lower chip nm sized dies since AMD sold their foundries. Global Foundaries only cares about ARM chips so sorry AMD stay in 2010... Intel is going 10nm next year and will finally put the last nail in the coffin.... I pray NOT!
In some places it is illegal to call yourself an engineer if you isn't really one (unlike software "engineers").
Alright sounds fair. Why can't a consortium or guild provide this certification? For coders who need something done will be programmers who will earn less and therefore no need for H1B1s and for critical architects and SOA for critical projects you can have certified engineers?
We could have 2 grades rather than average both of them and not having enough talent for one, yet be too expensive for the other use?
Where are you getting the impression that inexperienced kids out of college are regularly getting $70,000 a year to start?
It seems you are just making stuff up to argue against. The odd part is that you would do that to argue against a rising standard of living for some group of working people. Are you the kind of person who wants to tear others down when they are getting more than you? Because that's a more harmful attitude to have for society in general than some businesses trying to pay less for more.
Really? Go look at people posting here and some of the job ads if you do not believe me that kids start at $60k a year?
Not to sound assholish but I thought only Indians would be doing IT and dropped out of CS to do business. Worst mistake ever! I am happy just to make 50k in a few years of experience so yes I do not believe they deserve a rise and HR and accounting need a way to conserve costs.
Only in slashdot is it discussed there are starving programmers all making 30k a year thanks to those horrible greedy H1B1 recruiters. I do not see it. I am being honest as I see it no different than CEOs whinning about making less than a million.
What is a good starting and experienced programmer salary? 100k a year? Unless they are specialized or own their companies a programmer should not make that much. Simple and the corporations are just trying to reballance the market. American programmers make nearly 2x as much as any other major so I have little sympathy.
Bare in mind these companies are used to paying 2009 great recession salaries of 40k a year less.
The programmer who did this happily accepted as there was no work. Now he left. Employers need a reality check as the economy now is not 2009 anymore.l
No. The H1B debate is about creating an easy to exploit underclass. Even the "talented types" get abused by corporations. Corporations get a free pass to rape pillage and plunder because that's just (Ayn Rand) trendy these days.
Corporations want people that are easy to exploit. People with full legal status are harder to abuse. They also have higher expecations and higher overhead.
... ok put the emotion aside here. Play the view for the corporation for a minute?
Name one field besides the medical industry that pays college kids with 0 years experience $60,000 a year!!
I know college buddies who made $14/hr and lived with their parents after graduating from a bachelors in business?! They were lucky and happy to make that much as it was their first job. Correction doctors make $30,000 a year for 2 years first in residency.
Why should a programmer make as much as a doctor??
Supply and demand is why. Slashdotters may hate my argument here but look at it through the employers eyes who need stuff done? There is a shortage right now. Otherwise why should a kid who has never worked a day in his life out of school earn nearly $70,000 a year?
If you all hate Indians taking jobs you need to lower your salary more to what other majors make including even those in the medical industry. My brother can't find any programmers. The same ones were jerks and demanded $70,000 a year and now were all butt hurt when the great recession hit. The average programmer is worth $50,000 a year and HR caps it to that with 5 years experience in Memphis.
So basically kids out of school make $10,000 more than the average.. see an issue with this? H1B1 are needed to fill in then due to a lack of qualified candidates to positions.
Still I trusted them and privdog on an older system I used to run based on good ratings. That and I used commodo dragon for a little while so I wouldn't be spied upon.
Turns out I had been had.
Yes Comodo had a good name to it until today. Shame on you!
Shoot Hairyfeet is a big proponent of them and I used to use both too.
Wow.
I hope MS decertifies all Comodo certificates. I expect a big lawsuit from this and perhaps Commodo disabling Microsofts root certificates in return. Fun times.
What worries me is corporations too now bust SSL as well to spy on employees.
Now since the cat is out of the bag this maybe common. This will kill all commerce on the web as payment processing companies insurance plans won't insure online transactions without proof of a true encrypted connection.
This in term will de-value the online advertisement market if people stop buying shit online.
We need to stand up and do something and real advertisers need to step in before their business models get destroyed. This is just insanity! I would not be surprised if Google certificates do just this but Google seems too smart to be a snake which swallows its own tail.
GaAS were used on the 1st transistors 50 years ago but later switched to Silicon as they did not operate in heat which was important for NASA and boeing back in the early 1960s. Unless things radically changed
I watched a TV show on the history of silicon valley and Mayfield electrons who really invented the modern silicon chips and transistors. Intel spun off and so did AMD by the early 1970s.
The first transistors on a slab of semiconductors were made of GaAS but had trouble with temperature and reliability as Nasa and Boeing at the time were the biggest customers. Silicon was used as it was more stable and can withstand higher temperatures.
I am surprised they are considering GaAS again after it failed
Also the same with business reliance on lines of credit to pay employees and suppliers.
No one pays in cash and that is a common misconception today. Wall Street likes smooth lines and no bumps which lines of credit pay for daily operations. No lines of credit POOF out of business even if you have money it means suppkiers who put in 90 days pay as they too used a line of credit can't pay your employer. So the cash reserves will go with them as well.
Lovely. In 1929 only the few big titans of industry was so dependent on lines of credit. Not true in 2015
It will cause a great depression not seen since WWII. Reason being is the way the books are counted at the banks. Imagine the game of hot potato in kindergarten? Now imagine each time you caught it counted as an asset. When you throw it it counted as another asset.
Debt = assets. Not liabilities today??
See the problem? So since everyone is in a web of IOUs you close one down and it impacts the others and the house of cards collapss in a domino effect hence 2008 financial crises. Difference is we got bailed out back then. Today... there is no more cash to do so.
Easy. Shit ware, Trojaned app stores, and fake certicates would come pre-installed on them with Linux too.
Folks put your linux advocacy aside as linux has Trojans too. They simply aren't targeted as linux users are smarter and can delete them. Not because modern windows is somehow less secure.
Hasn't been true since XP SP 1 died. Windows today is as secure if not more than linux design wise. It has ACL lists, low rights sandboxing options and so on.
If Ubuntu won the marketshare wars this same unit would come with fake certificates, false Ubuntu app stores, and other crapware too.
Yes we here would know better and fix this but the average Joe would not.
Jail time and a massive fine by the FTC. If this came from China new fines and trade laws were violated too as this is a financial backdoor planted and considered an act of espionage by the Chinese. Lovely and I hope someone in the whitehouse has a pair of balls to go after Lenovo for this. It also shows the marketers are going now too far. Whats next?
Would anyone tolerate purchasing an alarm clock with a hidden cam on it?
I think not! This is outright criminal. No no reinstalling an OS should never be a common practice on a new system. Yes people use, need, and do not have the technical ability or need to run a non-Windows OS. Yes this is going to butt hurt many here but give it up.
Windows 7 is stable and works fine for non hacker use. People... normal people... do not run an OS. They run applications. This means Windows.
If Linux wont he marketshare wars they would have fake certificates, app stores, in Ubuntu too. This should be illegal... actually it is illegal and hacking. People pay their bills on their systems these days as a normal practice and this is downright scary. Just because I image Windows 7 and install Unix VMs on my system does not mean the average user should at all.
MS needs to change the EULA to prevent this since Windows 10 will be free for the consumer version of it.
Slashdot Mirror
AMD was (before haswel) not too bad if you have a multithreaded workload.
Thanks to the XboxONE with 8 cores games will run better on AMD as they will become more threaded since many are crappy xbox ports.
For a cheap box to run VM images in virtualbox/vmware workstation, video editing, or compiling code AMD offers a great value and the bios does not cripple virtualization extensions unlike the cheap ones from intel.
FYI I switched to an i7 4770k for my current system so I am not an AMD fanboy. But I paid through the nose for hyperthreading and 4 cores. I wanted good IPC for single threaded as well.
AMD dropped the ball twice. Both with abandoning the superior 5 year old phenom II which is still 25% faster per clock ticket than their newest system??? Second selling their fabrication plants to raise the shareprice last decade. They have .28 nm chips while intel is busy switching to .10nm??! How can you compete agains't that? Worse global foundaries are more interested in ARM chips as AMD has too low demand. OUCH.
Even if you love Intel it is in your best interest for AMD to stick around for competition and lower prices.
In SWTOR I got a doubling of FPS from moving from a PhenomII black edition to an i7 4770k.
I would be surprised if that were not the case. The i7-4770k came out 5 years after the Phenom II - a lot happened in that time, including the entire Phenom line being discontinued and succeeded by newer architectures. I'd be more interested in a comparison between the i7-4770k and its 30%-cheaper contemporary, the FX-9590 (naturally, expecting the i7-4770k still to win to some degree if we focus purely on single-thread performance, but is that worth it? Once SWTOR is no-longer CPU-bound you wouldn't see any difference between the two at all).
Here is the quicker. The half decade old phenom II is faster per clock cycle than the FX series based on the bulldozer architecture?? AMD really messed up as it was optimized for its graphics hoping it would win this way. In other words those mocking it call it Pentium IV 2.0
Do you have a link for that? It's not that I disbelieve you, I strongly suspect that Intel would do that crap. I'd like to read more about it however if you hae a link handy, then stash the link for the next time this benchmark comes up.
Personally, I like the Phoronix Linux benchmarks. They're more meaningful for me since I use Linux and they're all based on GCC which is trustworthy.
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.p...
The i7 4770 ocasionally blows away the FX8350 by a factor of 2, but in many benchmarks they're close, and Intel loses a fair fraction. The 4770 is the best overall performer, but not by all that much. It seems that the choice of CPU is fairly workload dependent.
For servers, I still prefer the supermicro 4s opteron boxes. 64 cores, 512G RAM, 1U. Nice.
The i7 4770k is a fairly high end chip by Intel. I own one but I would not expect to find one in a sub 700. It is not a Xeon, but it is just 1 notch down from the $900 extreme edition so it is 2nd highest in consumer non server chips.
Well sites like tomshardware.com make it look like a Pentium or i3 can smoke the latest AMD black edition fresh out of the water. However, biased or not my real world experience says otherwise as many games are optimized for intel and use NVidia specific directX extensions with their studio software which boils a lot of AMD users blood but it is the truth.
In SWTOR I got a doubling of FPS from moving from a PhenomII black edition to an i7 4770k. True it has less cores but apps are optimized still for single tasking and I do have 4 real and 4 hyperthreaded cores for my VMs.
Reason being are games are crappy xbox ports. The 360 I think was single or dual core so games were single threaded. Therefore they kick ass on Intel. The only good news is the xboxONE is changing this with 8 cores with an AMD and forcing game makers to optimize more for ATI.
I expect the newer games to be more competitive as a result as they are more threaded and ATI optimized on tomshardware.com and other sites.
But damage is done and the power is much better with intel chips as they leave AMD further and further in the dust with lower chip nm sized dies since AMD sold their foundries. Global Foundaries only cares about ARM chips so sorry AMD stay in 2010 ... Intel is going 10nm next year and will finally put the last nail in the coffin. ... I pray NOT!
In some places it is illegal to call yourself an engineer if you isn't really one (unlike software "engineers").
Alright sounds fair. Why can't a consortium or guild provide this certification? For coders who need something done will be programmers who will earn less and therefore no need for H1B1s and for critical architects and SOA for critical projects you can have certified engineers?
We could have 2 grades rather than average both of them and not having enough talent for one, yet be too expensive for the other use?
Where are you getting the impression that inexperienced kids out of college are regularly getting $70,000 a year to start?
It seems you are just making stuff up to argue against. The odd part is that you would do that to argue against a rising standard of living for some group of working people. Are you the kind of person who wants to tear others down when they are getting more than you? Because that's a more harmful attitude to have for society in general than some businesses trying to pay less for more.
Really? Go look at people posting here and some of the job ads if you do not believe me that kids start at $60k a year?
Not to sound assholish but I thought only Indians would be doing IT and dropped out of CS to do business. Worst mistake ever! I am happy just to make 50k in a few years of experience so yes I do not believe they deserve a rise and HR and accounting need a way to conserve costs.
Only in slashdot is it discussed there are starving programmers all making 30k a year thanks to those horrible greedy H1B1 recruiters. I do not see it. I am being honest as I see it no different than CEOs whinning about making less than a million.
What is a good starting and experienced programmer salary? 100k a year? Unless they are specialized or own their companies a programmer should not make that much. Simple and the corporations are just trying to reballance the market. American programmers make nearly 2x as much as any other major so I have little sympathy.
I saw an episode of house hunters.
You can buy for $100k so yes it is cheap.
Bare in mind these companies are used to paying 2009 great recession salaries of 40k a year less.
The programmer who did this happily accepted as there was no work. Now he left. Employers need a reality check as the economy now is not 2009 anymore.l
No. The H1B debate is about creating an easy to exploit underclass. Even the "talented types" get abused by corporations. Corporations get a free pass to rape pillage and plunder because that's just (Ayn Rand) trendy these days.
Corporations want people that are easy to exploit. People with full legal status are harder to abuse. They also have higher expecations and higher overhead.
... ok put the emotion aside here. Play the view for the corporation for a minute?
Name one field besides the medical industry that pays college kids with 0 years experience $60,000 a year!!
I know college buddies who made $14/hr and lived with their parents after graduating from a bachelors in business?! They were lucky and happy to make that much as it was their first job. Correction doctors make $30,000 a year for 2 years first in residency.
Why should a programmer make as much as a doctor??
Supply and demand is why. Slashdotters may hate my argument here but look at it through the employers eyes who need stuff done? There is a shortage right now. Otherwise why should a kid who has never worked a day in his life out of school earn nearly $70,000 a year?
If you all hate Indians taking jobs you need to lower your salary more to what other majors make including even those in the medical industry. My brother can't find any programmers. The same ones were jerks and demanded $70,000 a year and now were all butt hurt when the great recession hit. The average programmer is worth $50,000 a year and HR caps it to that with 5 years experience in Memphis.
So basically kids out of school make $10,000 more than the average.. see an issue with this? H1B1 are needed to fill in then due to a lack of qualified candidates to positions.
I used av-totals. They are a professional certification group
Still I trusted them and privdog on an older system I used to run based on good ratings. That and I used commodo dragon for a little while so I wouldn't be spied upon.
Turns out I had been had.
Yes Comodo had a good name to it until today. Shame on you!
Shoot Hairyfeet is a big proponent of them and I used to use both too.
Wow.
I hope MS decertifies all Comodo certificates. I expect a big lawsuit from this and perhaps Commodo disabling Microsofts root certificates in return. Fun times.
Another lawsuit coming up.
What worries me is corporations too now bust SSL as well to spy on employees.
Now since the cat is out of the bag this maybe common. This will kill all commerce on the web as payment processing companies insurance plans won't insure online transactions without proof of a true encrypted connection.
This in term will de-value the online advertisement market if people stop buying shit online.
We need to stand up and do something and real advertisers need to step in before their business models get destroyed. This is just insanity! I would not be surprised if Google certificates do just this but Google seems too smart to be a snake which swallows its own tail.
GaAS were used on the 1st transistors 50 years ago but later switched to Silicon as they did not operate in heat which was important for NASA and boeing back in the early 1960s. Unless things radically changed
I watched a TV show on the history of silicon valley and Mayfield electrons who really invented the modern silicon chips and transistors. Intel spun off and so did AMD by the early 1970s.
The first transistors on a slab of semiconductors were made of GaAS but had trouble with temperature and reliability as Nasa and Boeing at the time were the biggest customers. Silicon was used as it was more stable and can withstand higher temperatures.
I am surprised they are considering GaAS again after it failed
I was thinking the same thing.
Sounds like they can make mobile games or something. Didn't they make sonic for the PS3 or WII or something
Also the same with business reliance on lines of credit to pay employees and suppliers.
No one pays in cash and that is a common misconception today. Wall Street likes smooth lines and no bumps which lines of credit pay for daily operations. No lines of credit POOF out of business even if you have money it means suppkiers who put in 90 days pay as they too used a line of credit can't pay your employer. So the cash reserves will go with them as well.
Lovely. In 1929 only the few big titans of industry was so dependent on lines of credit. Not true in 2015
No they can't.
It will cause a great depression not seen since WWII. Reason being is the way the books are counted at the banks. Imagine the game of hot potato in kindergarten? Now imagine each time you caught it counted as an asset. When you throw it it counted as another asset.
Debt = assets. Not liabilities today??
See the problem? So since everyone is in a web of IOUs you close one down and it impacts the others and the house of cards collapss in a domino effect hence 2008 financial crises. Difference is we got bailed out back then. Today ... there is no more cash to do so.
That was because the house majority leader at the time was from Las Vegas.
Needless to say the locals heavily oppose it in their backyard.
As it will be worth less than the paper it is printed on if they default on their debt which they plan on doing.
Easy. Shit ware, Trojaned app stores, and fake certicates would come pre-installed on them with Linux too.
Folks put your linux advocacy aside as linux has Trojans too. They simply aren't targeted as linux users are smarter and can delete them. Not because modern windows is somehow less secure.
Hasn't been true since XP SP 1 died. Windows today is as secure if not more than linux design wise. It has ACL lists, low rights sandboxing options and so on.
They do this on purpose to cut down on support costs.
This is stupid as it actually increases due to angry users calling India to get their start menu back
If Ubuntu won the marketshare wars this same unit would come with fake certificates, false Ubuntu app stores, and other crapware too.
Yes we here would know better and fix this but the average Joe would not.
Jail time and a massive fine by the FTC. If this came from China new fines and trade laws were violated too as this is a financial backdoor planted and considered an act of espionage by the Chinese. Lovely and I hope someone in the whitehouse has a pair of balls to go after Lenovo for this. It also shows the marketers are going now too far. Whats next?
...to wipe the box and install some other OS.
Would anyone tolerate purchasing an alarm clock with a hidden cam on it?
I think not! This is outright criminal. No no reinstalling an OS should never be a common practice on a new system. Yes people use, need, and do not have the technical ability or need to run a non-Windows OS. Yes this is going to butt hurt many here but give it up.
Windows 7 is stable and works fine for non hacker use. People ... normal people ... do not run an OS. They run applications. This means Windows.
If Linux wont he marketshare wars they would have fake certificates, app stores, in Ubuntu too. This should be illegal ... actually it is illegal and hacking. People pay their bills on their systems these days as a normal practice and this is downright scary. Just because I image Windows 7 and install Unix VMs on my system does not mean the average user should at all.
MS needs to change the EULA to prevent this since Windows 10 will be free for the consumer version of it.
Build your own. Works best for Windows machines and Linux as well
Is there a way for sites to detect and block this?