Re: IE once again kills innovation
on
HTTP/2 Finalized
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· Score: 1
Problem is http2 is for Web services. If you have to support older IE hence http1 then you can't do the same things.... or write 2 different versions of your site.
IE once again kills innovation
on
HTTP/2 Finalized
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
MS will only support this in Spartan on Windows 10. Which means 7 and XP are already out of support.
What about productivity costs? People want things done NOW! If you have a team which all they do is train 50% of the time your productivity is cut in half.
As soon as they gain experience they can earn $60,000 a year and will dump you.
Yes there is a shortage of highly skilled IT developers and this may piss slashdotters off acting in their own interests but only the medical field is this common. Most college grads are happy they make $30,000 a year and that is considered a good job believe it or not for them in this economy.
So bring in more foreigners to keep wages down and fill in vacant positions. For the business owners don't they matter too. It is not greedy to not want to shell out $100,000 a year for non managerial positions that require 7 years experience. That is just batshit crazy.
No IE 6 was more like a Trojan which spread mixed with Cryptowall/locker which prevented people from leaving platforms.
lets say you are an auto supply parts manufactor. 1 and just 1 customer uses IE 6! Shoot now you use IE 6. Now all the other customers must use IE 6 to use the portal and so on??!
Windows 7 comes ah cool I will just... oh wait. We can't upgrade until our customers upgrade. Our customers are waiting to upgrade but can't upgrade until we upgrade etc.
Unless my knowledge is wrong I assumed they were encrypted. Also if you are backing up your data for a re-image the files then are unreadable with a different key.
But they were made binary on purpose which is what SMF on Solaris does as well.
I do have more limited experience in the server unix realm compared to working with other technologies.
Perhaps SystemD is a poor implementation?
FreeBSD also is thinking about using an event driven init too:-)... boy I can not wait to see the look and read the comments on/. when news gets out for all those who switched. hehehe
But in truness not all change is good. Look at Metro, Gnome 3, pulse audio, Vista, etc. Many slashdotters have turned conservative and some even proudly run XP. This would be -1 or +5 funny 10 years ago to see such comments like that but now they are +5 insightful. Perhaps Slashdot is aging too.
But yes init is not perfect and was designed for no events at all. No changes for servers sitting in a computer room having 1 daemon and +35 cmd line tools at the most circa 1985. It is not designed for laptops falling and sleep and waking up on a different network nor servers connected to the internet which need to act differently when hacked etc.
Have you seen how much it costs to become a graduate of anything in the US? Perhaps the High tech companies should start training people. Even starbucks can train people to make coffee. Coding to the standard these companies seem to want is not that expensive and they may earn some loyalty.
How do you know that barista will be a great coder when done? What will stop her for leaving as soon as training is finished?
Training should be up to the employee since they leave all the time. Working for the same company for 30 years is not true anymore. Times have changed so employers do not expect people to stay for more than 2 years anyway as they lay off when the stock price is too low.
Under these conditions even at higher prices it does not make economic sense to train but to outsource to get the work done or gasp pay a managers salary for a kid out of school.
Expect they speak Spanish and not English. I work at one right now and our Spanish operations in Panama could probably do it for just as cheap there and unlike Cuba they have these things called fiber OC and T3 wan connections for traffic and voice which I doubt exist in Cuba currently.
I have to say this? I am in Desktop and some server support now and I deeply regret following the advice of do not code as only Indians will do it by 2010 or so. Kicking myself!
Why? College grads make $60,000 with 0 experience in the US?? I know this opinion is unpopular on Slashdot but it does add credence to maybe their is a shortage of good developers as only MBAs make this out of school.
If Cubans can do it cheaper and add freedom and prosperity to end tyranny like what happened in China then why are we agaisn't it besides protecting our own self interests
This is why most companies or I should say many do contractors. I had to do that at my current employer for 2 projects to earn their trust. Infact my whole IT department at my site had to contract last year before being brought on.
We had bad apples from before. If a contractor fucks up we can replace him. Yes they are sometimes the bottom of the barrel and during good economic times like the boom we are seeing now we are short on talent. During a recession we get top talent too.
Web monkeys where they open frontpage and click and stuff and edit IE 6 specific bugs out in the CSS then publish it are gone.
Today employers need someone who is an database optimization expert, java script developer expert, Djanga, Drupal, c# ASP.net, and objective C to port it to the iphone. Do you have any idea how complex Drupal is?
A good database admin is hard and employers want one person to do everything to cut costs.
If I were making a corporate site I would want someone who knows nosql, and have a CS degree if I needed large transaction support, the artwork? Who cares I would hire an intern for the design part or a UX expert if I had the right budget.
Because the real bottleneck in web servers is the database.
The NoSQL argument and the common WEBSCALE video posted here talks about this delima. ACID relational data can slow the mightiest of mainframes to the ground and it does scale with N complexity too as it is I/0 based when doing inner or outer joins.
The mathematical theory part is optimizing it for RDBMS reliability without taking the site down when needing secure transactions etc. So yes it is frustrating to the interviewer who knows art and wants an artistic site and an employer who keeps having outages when more than 300 folks are logged in and running transactions at the same time.
The proper thing is to hire the artist for the gui and a mathematician and EE guy do the optimization on the backend. But who are we kidding that would cost money? It is cheaper to have 1 guy do both and give the savings to the CEO right? So make it so no one but lyers are qualified to do the job.
Look everyone else is leaving init because it does have weaknesses. I do not administer Unix as much so you maybe more qualified to answer than myself.
For me I found init frustrating. It lacks events and that is why Apple was the 1st to leave it. Lets say you had a powerbook that slept in your office and woke up in a hotel on a business trip with a different network? How would you program it to handle such a change with procedural (not event driven) if/else statements?
This can be taken farther with a nginx box (event driven config which web admins hated to learn but love afterwards)that you want to program to handle a WAN connection down or a hack detected? SystemD can do these things.
One of the things I love about FreeBSD over Linux is that it is simpler to read/etc files. #uncheck this to enable X vs if/else with data and logic scattered all over is a mess. Init had this too.
With SMF you set the events and it is in an XML format.
But text log files are a big SECURITY RISK. Example? I want to hack into server and hide my presence. 1st thing I do is edit your/var/log files when I install a rootkit.
Graphical requirements? Haha that is gnome for ya. It links everything where something *might* touch really.
If you are gray beard with 20 years of Unix admin experience you are probably reading this with cherry red face with anger as IT DOES NOT WORK WITH MY SCRIPTS!!
If you are starting out and want to write your own scripts and are not used to one way of doing it then it is no big deal. It works out of the box and was lightning fast compared to init in centOS 6 in my vm.
SystemD has been in use in Fedora for many years now with no issues. The ones you see whining are those who have lots of time invested in administering Unix and Linux systems with hundreds of man hours for scripts for init to handle SANS, raids, weird conditions for their apps and so on. They bitched too when Sun left init for SMF a few years ago. Now they do not mind as they needed to learn it remain certified with Oracle.
Sun and Ubuntu did replace init, but that's all their replacement did. It didn't creep into other areas and try to take over all of system management.
How is upstartd, SMF, launchd, different than SystemD?
From brief overview the arguments it does everything is fud. No it does not route packets. It launches a process which communicates to the networking daemon inet for this. No it does manage kernel level threads. It is not a mini operating system at all and is just 300k lines of code.
SystemD is no different than the other event driven alternatives. It just requires relearning which people set in their ways get infuriated about.
With startupd, launchd, SMF, and SystemD you set the triggers for each event. No long scripts loaded with nested if/else statements galore or expensive proprietary software to mask this lack of functionality in init.
That is my answer to the grandparents argument there was no need for change. Kind of reminds me of XP users angry at MS for merely just 13 years of support and do not see the obvious need for security via ASLR ram scrambling & DEP, better process handling, better driver models, USB storage frameworks, and so on.
The purpose of my program is to create FUD and demand for my products. You all can help me out with a story about SystemD. Make it real emotional with no facts at all and I will include it for my educational program to prevent these poor African children from using Raspery Pie. We have a competitor out anyway that will knock its socks out! For a mere $1249 more it will include a cell phone attached desktop too!
Slashdot Mirror
What were Lenovo thinking? People pay bills online you know. Easily can steal lots of information
As much as we bashed RMS here for being a lunatic he has a point with trusting a for profit entity making closed source software.
So who cares??
It is badass rock store technology
Problem is http2 is for Web services. If you have to support older IE hence http1 then you can't do the same things. ... or write 2 different versions of your site.
MS will only support this in Spartan on Windows 10. Which means 7 and XP are already out of support.
What about productivity costs? People want things done NOW! If you have a team which all they do is train 50% of the time your productivity is cut in half.
As soon as they gain experience they can earn $60,000 a year and will dump you.
Yes there is a shortage of highly skilled IT developers and this may piss slashdotters off acting in their own interests but only the medical field is this common. Most college grads are happy they make $30,000 a year and that is considered a good job believe it or not for them in this economy.
So bring in more foreigners to keep wages down and fill in vacant positions. For the business owners don't they matter too. It is not greedy to not want to shell out $100,000 a year for non managerial positions that require 7 years experience. That is just batshit crazy.
No IE 6 was more like a Trojan which spread mixed with Cryptowall/locker which prevented people from leaving platforms.
lets say you are an auto supply parts manufactor. 1 and just 1 customer uses IE 6! Shoot now you use IE 6. Now all the other customers must use IE 6 to use the portal and so on??!
Windows 7 comes ah cool I will just ... oh wait. We can't upgrade until our customers upgrade. Our customers are waiting to upgrade but can't upgrade until we upgrade etc.
It spreads like a Trojan horse everwhere.
Unless my knowledge is wrong I assumed they were encrypted. Also if you are backing up your data for a re-image the files then are unreadable with a different key.
But they were made binary on purpose which is what SMF on Solaris does as well.
I do have more limited experience in the server unix realm compared to working with other technologies.
Perhaps SystemD is a poor implementation?
FreeBSD also is thinking about using an event driven init too :-) ... boy I can not wait to see the look and read the comments on /. when news gets out for all those who switched. hehehe
But in truness not all change is good. Look at Metro, Gnome 3, pulse audio, Vista, etc. Many slashdotters have turned conservative and some even proudly run XP. This would be -1 or +5 funny 10 years ago to see such comments like that but now they are +5 insightful. Perhaps Slashdot is aging too.
But yes init is not perfect and was designed for no events at all. No changes for servers sitting in a computer room having 1 daemon and +35 cmd line tools at the most circa 1985. It is not designed for laptops falling and sleep and waking up on a different network nor servers connected to the internet which need to act differently when hacked etc.
Have you seen how much it costs to become a graduate of anything in the US?
Perhaps the High tech companies should start training people. Even starbucks can train people to make coffee. Coding to the standard these companies seem to want is not that expensive and they may earn some loyalty.
How do you know that barista will be a great coder when done? What will stop her for leaving as soon as training is finished?
Training should be up to the employee since they leave all the time. Working for the same company for 30 years is not true anymore. Times have changed so employers do not expect people to stay for more than 2 years anyway as they lay off when the stock price is too low.
Under these conditions even at higher prices it does not make economic sense to train but to outsource to get the work done or gasp pay a managers salary for a kid out of school.
Sydney is very expensive but so are San Fransisco and New York which are for worse.
I find the GP statement not true unless the kid is a manger at the local super market in Australia or they have very high food costs :-)
Expect they speak Spanish and not English. I work at one right now and our Spanish operations in Panama could probably do it for just as cheap there and unlike Cuba they have these things called fiber OC and T3 wan connections for traffic and voice which I doubt exist in Cuba currently.
Well I knew college kids who got $13/hr and were grateful to have a job here.
Seems 28 is way too high
Bad for Americans.
I have to say this? I am in Desktop and some server support now and I deeply regret following the advice of do not code as only Indians will do it by 2010 or so. Kicking myself!
Why? College grads make $60,000 with 0 experience in the US?? I know this opinion is unpopular on Slashdot but it does add credence to maybe their is a shortage of good developers as only MBAs make this out of school.
If Cubans can do it cheaper and add freedom and prosperity to end tyranny like what happened in China then why are we agaisn't it besides protecting our own self interests
The same ones who wrote only for IE 6 to get done 2 weeks quicker and now these folks are stuck on XP still types right?
This is why most companies or I should say many do contractors. I had to do that at my current employer for 2 projects to earn their trust. Infact my whole IT department at my site had to contract last year before being brought on.
We had bad apples from before. If a contractor fucks up we can replace him. Yes they are sometimes the bottom of the barrel and during good economic times like the boom we are seeing now we are short on talent. During a recession we get top talent too.
That is changing now.
Web monkeys where they open frontpage and click and stuff and edit IE 6 specific bugs out in the CSS then publish it are gone.
Today employers need someone who is an database optimization expert, java script developer expert, Djanga, Drupal, c# ASP.net, and objective C to port it to the iphone. Do you have any idea how complex Drupal is?
A good database admin is hard and employers want one person to do everything to cut costs.
If I were making a corporate site I would want someone who knows nosql, and have a CS degree if I needed large transaction support, the artwork? Who cares I would hire an intern for the design part or a UX expert if I had the right budget.
This is 2015 not 1998
Because the real bottleneck in web servers is the database.
The NoSQL argument and the common WEBSCALE video posted here talks about this delima. ACID relational data can slow the mightiest of mainframes to the ground and it does scale with N complexity too as it is I/0 based when doing inner or outer joins.
The mathematical theory part is optimizing it for RDBMS reliability without taking the site down when needing secure transactions etc. So yes it is frustrating to the interviewer who knows art and wants an artistic site and an employer who keeps having outages when more than 300 folks are logged in and running transactions at the same time.
The proper thing is to hire the artist for the gui and a mathematician and EE guy do the optimization on the backend. But who are we kidding that would cost money? It is cheaper to have 1 guy do both and give the savings to the CEO right? So make it so no one but lyers are qualified to do the job.
Look everyone else is leaving init because it does have weaknesses. I do not administer Unix as much so you maybe more qualified to answer than myself.
For me I found init frustrating. It lacks events and that is why Apple was the 1st to leave it. Lets say you had a powerbook that slept in your office and woke up in a hotel on a business trip with a different network? How would you program it to handle such a change with procedural (not event driven) if /else statements?
This can be taken farther with a nginx box (event driven config which web admins hated to learn but love afterwards)that you want to program to handle a WAN connection down or a hack detected? SystemD can do these things.
One of the things I love about FreeBSD over Linux is that it is simpler to read /etc files. #uncheck this to enable X vs if/else with data and logic scattered all over is a mess. Init had this too.
With SMF you set the events and it is in an XML format.
But text log files are a big SECURITY RISK. Example? I want to hack into server and hide my presence. 1st thing I do is edit your /var/log files when I install a rootkit.
Graphical requirements? Haha that is gnome for ya. It links everything where something *might* touch really.
yes and no.
If you are gray beard with 20 years of Unix admin experience you are probably reading this with cherry red face with anger as IT DOES NOT WORK WITH MY SCRIPTS!!
If you are starting out and want to write your own scripts and are not used to one way of doing it then it is no big deal. It works out of the box and was lightning fast compared to init in centOS 6 in my vm.
SystemD has been in use in Fedora for many years now with no issues. The ones you see whining are those who have lots of time invested in administering Unix and Linux systems with hundreds of man hours for scripts for init to handle SANS, raids, weird conditions for their apps and so on. They bitched too when Sun left init for SMF a few years ago. Now they do not mind as they needed to learn it remain certified with Oracle.
Sun and Ubuntu did replace init, but that's all their replacement did. It didn't creep into other areas and try to take over all of system management.
How is upstartd, SMF, launchd, different than SystemD?
From brief overview the arguments it does everything is fud. No it does not route packets. It launches a process which communicates to the networking daemon inet for this. No it does manage kernel level threads. It is not a mini operating system at all and is just 300k lines of code.
SystemD is no different than the other event driven alternatives. It just requires relearning which people set in their ways get infuriated about.
With startupd, launchd, SMF, and SystemD you set the triggers for each event. No long scripts loaded with nested if/else statements galore or expensive proprietary software to mask this lack of functionality in init.
That is my answer to the grandparents argument there was no need for change. Kind of reminds me of XP users angry at MS for merely just 13 years of support and do not see the obvious need for security via ASLR ram scrambling & DEP, better process handling, better driver models, USB storage frameworks, and so on.
Things progress
Why thank you Rob Limo for that advertisement.
The purpose of my program is to create FUD and demand for my products. You all can help me out with a story about SystemD. Make it real emotional with no facts at all and I will include it for my educational program to prevent these poor African children from using Raspery Pie. We have a competitor out anyway that will knock its socks out! For a mere $1249 more it will include a cell phone attached desktop too!
You mean how Sun, Apple, and Ubuntu did not leave init behind years ago
... In 3,2,1
With all the great news and new sayings of the state media ahead of the 70th year Anniversary I am sure NK has to have such better service
This coming from such a great airline service