I for one am glad to see the wheels starting fall off this libertarian corporate experiment. It's heartening to see signs of failure in an institution whose core principals are deeply entrenched in base human behaviours such as bullying, hypocrisy and total indifference to adverse impacts to others (including it's own people).
Own a company or be in a position of power and your opinion WILL radically change. Guarantee it
"HEVC is restricted by patents owned by various parties. Use of HEVC technologies requires the payment of royalties to licensors of HEVC patents, such as MPEG LA, HEVC Advance, and Technicolor SA."
All 3 of those working groups stated have strong ties to the MPAA, who doesn't like older Operating Systems used by pirates. The entire push for TPM modules on computers and Secureboot was primarily from the MPAA and RIAA effectively telling Microsoft "Either keep your users from pirating our stuff or we will revoke your Coded Licensing for Windows Media Player and ensure nobody can play DVD's on computers" in the late 00's. It wasn't until after those technologies were deployed that software companies began using them for security, e.g. using TPM modules to lock down disks or Secure Boot to lock down boot-code.
This is the same story replaying itself, but this time Intel is the victim. Pretty much all of the mid-sized and large web media companies are grouping together to build competing, free standards e.g. VP9. I expect HEVC to end up the same way many proprietary standards on video capture equipment ended up; obsolete in 3 years.
If you're looking to skip a processor generation, right now is the time.
Not so. HEVC and VP9 hardware acceleration is included with Nvida 10xxx and AMD rx 4xx and up so that blows that theory out.
FYI, I am currently a Linux sysadmin, working for a 100% Linux shop. Outside my gaming rig, I've run Linux for about 20 years. Longer than I've had my/. account. And I believe it is the first time I've been called a shill, and I've had my post down voted as Flamebait.
It really doesn't change the fact Microsoft announced this move one year ago. I'm not sure what you and the other snowflakes on this site were expecting.
Anyway, probably my last post on/. I am too old for online arguments.
Also I would like to point out about Linux support for something like Ubuntu 9,06/12 or CEntOS 5 on Kaby Lake or Ryzen? It would be absurb to expect support or to have them even run on newer hardware. Windows 7 came out in 2009 and is from the error of the products I described.
Do all the haters here expect Android gingerbread 2.2 to run on a brand new Android Nexus 6p or Samsung Galaxy s7? Will Samsung or Google provide free patches for Gingerbread on these devices? Ludicrous.
Look if you want to run an 8 year old OS then it is best to have older hardware around or run it in a VM. That to me is reasonable. Only this decade have I seen ABSOLUTE DEMAND to run 10+ year old operating systems on new hardware. Why?? It's ridiculous.
THis is slashdot and people here feel this is 1990 where an OS can run easily on any CPU as the CPU just does math so it must be some crazy conspiracy by Microsoft to do evil. It is 2017 and the CPU is silicon on a chip to compete with the ipad. It does I/O, video, ethernet, usb 3, chipset features, raid, and lots more. These need drivers to work.
Not saying MS is a saint here. Just saying if AMD doesn't want to work on it how is Microsoft the bad guy here? My i7 4770K does my raid, it does my usb 3, it does some of my ethernet, it has my memory controller. In the past these were seperate chips on the motherboard. Today these are inside the CPU.
CPUs are whole silicon on a chip platform. This isn't 1990 anymore where they just do math and nothing special from the operating system is needed anymore. Thanks to Tablets and mobile the new thing is to put everything on the CPU.
No they don't. Security updates only. Features ended back in 2012 or 2013. Ryzen is a new feature therefore it's not supported as it's in extended support
How about until the agreed upon 1/14/2020 or whatever date in our fucking contracts?
They're blocking newer CPUs from accessing Windows Update and preventing them from downloading critical security patches. These patches do not require additional testing or development to work on PCs with the newer CPUs, and the newer CPUs do not magically make the gaping security holes go away.
Wrong. Windows 7 features are EOL. What is still supported is security. Ryzen qualifies as a new feature update. After 2012 MS is more focused on newer platforms and will only close exploits for older hardware.
That's because they use IE 7 and hired an Indian contractor to writethe software with quirks in all just to get the CSS to work. The thought process was it was more future proof being web based
What downsides? Yes the upside is you are compliant now for security and insurance purposes. Machines break man. That is life. You can't keep expecting them and PCs to work forever.
Reminds me of stories about a VP freaking out that the IBM 1981 hard disk went out on that mission critical machine or that 1978 digital PDP robot failing. The tech almost gets a write-up and raises hell that these things need to be upgraded !
Did any IT department learned any lessons from XP?
The Enterprise edition has no spyware and is a lot more secure and quicker with SMB file sharing than 7. Go make a GPO with custom looks if you don't like UI?
This can go very smooth if you plan and migrate and not be that costly if you start TODAY. A large enterprise should take a year to gradually migrate with little additional costs compared to wait and hire ontractors and 3rd party PM's
You have to switch to 10 anyway. Perhaps your IT department should be spending this time preparing for a migration strategy instead of panicking and waiting until the last minute.
Oh Ryzen is stable and fine with the anniversary edition of10. Just not earlier releases.
I do not understand slashdoters who get enraged and think vast conspiracy when an 8 year old OS can't run on a new CPU. Oh it must be a conspiracy by Microsoft right? The exf clocking and power are millisecond interval rocks on Ryzen dependent on UEFI and Windows 10 algorithms and drivers. No the CPU does more than process x86 instructions.
Google Ryzen BSOD? This happened before the review (I htink from Anatech or arstechnica) did the update to Windows 10 anniversary edition. The hardware drivers will not work with any other version including earlier versions of Windows 10.
A reviewer on youtube also put Kabylake on Windows 8.1 and it too BSOD every few minutes.
This isn't 1985 where a CPU just did arithmetic only. The CPU is the whole computer thanks to demand for tablets where Silcon on a chip is everything so an older OS today in this decade means everything including PCI express, bus, efi, Ethernet, and graphics drivers all have to be supported at the CPU as this is where the calculations are done today. Even raid is now done on the CPU. Running XP on a system is suicide as the system will not work properly due to not being optimized for specific algorithms or having drivers that function.
Boards do alot less these days too as the CPU takes over more and more functionality. In the old days before AthlonXP I remember the memory controller was board quality and chipset dependent.
We got along way as economically we are nowhere close to where the USSR was in the final days when people lined up for hours for a loaf of bread and milk or waited 10 years for a car.
However, I do imagine if a democrat gets elected next some nut right wingers will use guns and try to start a civil war. Not all republicans but 10% of the population for sure in my opinion as I read 1/3 of Republicans really do believe Obama was a muslim born in Kenya as fact!
Not an insult to conservative or Republican readers here. Just the 20% in the party with militant tendencies who read fake news
Actually Hairy you may want to look at FreeBSD. It has an ABI unlike Linux and changes are much much more minimal making it easy to upgrade without stuff craping out.
Unfortunately, it is not for Grandma or our users by far. FreeBSD gets updated all the time and with things not changing you can do a pkg-add or a make install clean at/usr/ports for any package. Since the kernel team and userland are all one there is that sense of integration. Also the scripts in/etc are simplistic. Not horrible if/fi else programs that break for each distro upgrade!
I hate RC scripts and logic SHOULD NEVER be in a config file... except under Linux which is why upgrades fail besides the lack of an ABI forcing Xorg to break.
All those things that you claim are bad downsides, are the very things I like more about BSD and dislike about Linux. You've shown above how easy it is to solve your own complaints. I rather not have X and just install it if needed, that have tons of X shit by default that I don't need that I have to go down dependency hell lane to remove junk. And just try to see how far you can get ripping out systemd from Linux....yeah good luck with that. At least the PulseAudio and NetworkManager bullshit are easy fixes.
That's what I love about FreeBSD too, but hate sometimes. I love that it not only supports tinkering, but ENCOURAGES IT! THe whole system is built from the ground up to do whatever you want on it. Isn't that the traditional power of the PC over the Mac and appliances?
Problem is it rather is a pain in the ass if you want a quick desktop. But, it is very well designed. I loved/usr/share/examples where CVSUP used to be be. I remember FreeBSD 4.x used to have sample/etc/x scripts you can use. I HATE RC. FreeBSD scripts have # uncomment this line to enable X in the old examples with CVSUP (this is 10 years ago so I do not remember where the exact location was or name).
I do use turnkeylinux for simple appliances to fire up FAST if I want to code a website. But for someone with servers FreeBSD encourages more of work and less of trying to be the Windows of Unix like Linux is with GUI's and config programs that do things for you. And FreeBSD has much better documentation besides the handbook in/usr/docs including even Unix history. This is something you do not get unless you use it and see FreeBSD is not another distro but a whole new OS with a unified feel.
Psycho for example tried to be redone what 3 times? Poltergeist was terrible. Star wars while not a remake but story line gets worse with each series. Even the prequels were better than Disney and I refuse to watch star trek
It has always interested me to know what drives companies to upgrade their systems. Let's say you have a farm of 1,000 servers that you've had for 5 years, doing useful stuff, running 12.04 - what incentive is there for you to upgrade?
If they are web facing, and under attack - sure, I get it. If you are developing cutting edge software for deployment to other hosts - I get it.
But if you are using them to actually do work for your company, say, running some data mining, or hosting a big kafka cluster, why change? The logical point is when you rip the lot out and install new hardware (and decide on a new machine config, including OS) but for existing hardware, shouldn't the OS choice live for the life of the server?
Technical debt and hardware support.
Look you can't expect things to always magically work. Hardware dies, new standards come into play, newer software needs to interact, security fixes, etc. Have you read about struts exploit going on at arstechnica.com?
IE 6 problems haunted my last employer. Guess what they still use it!! In a VM now but still. Technology should always change as things always change. Looking forward and being agile means you pay less being proactive rather than reactive. Also being hacked using a 15 year old struts Java web install you also have the problem with talent who have struts on his resume of current skills. No one uses that anymore so employment and not overworking your existing employees to death with out of date technology because HR can't find someone based on a keyword with 5 years of experience.
Go download an iso and fire up a VM? Make sure install the handbook in the install as you will need it. Only downside to BSD is being conservative it is a very basic install. No bash or Xorg. You can install those and make it into a Linux like distro by installing bash and gnuls instead of bsd ls with --color option (how is that compared to Unix like lol). Also it comes with clang. GCC is still there via the ports in usr/ports as well as the binary pkg-add utility.
Clang eats ram for breakfast and I did a/usr/ports/x11org make install clean and it are up so much ram I didn't have any free to do a kill -9:-(
Consider Freebsd? It's networking performance is very good and it's TCP/IP stack is the standard which is why Cisco used it and Juniper still does.
Freebsd is one of the most conservative and stable versions of Unix and the Freebsd handbook has excellent documentation. Also to mention FreeBSD specific features include jails, Zfs, and dtrace. Hyper-V and VMware support are top notch as well as both Microsoft and Amazon hosting Freebsd on their clouds.
Of course it's hard to concentrate and get things accomplished when you are in meetings 6 hours a day talking about what your going to do rather than doing it.
Slashdot Mirror
I for one am glad to see the wheels starting fall off this libertarian corporate experiment. It's heartening to see signs of failure in an institution whose core principals are deeply entrenched in base human behaviours such as bullying, hypocrisy and total indifference to adverse impacts to others (including it's own people).
Own a company or be in a position of power and your opinion WILL radically change. Guarantee it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding
"HEVC is restricted by patents owned by various parties. Use of HEVC technologies requires the payment of royalties to licensors of HEVC patents, such as MPEG LA, HEVC Advance, and Technicolor SA."
All 3 of those working groups stated have strong ties to the MPAA, who doesn't like older Operating Systems used by pirates. The entire push for TPM modules on computers and Secureboot was primarily from the MPAA and RIAA effectively telling Microsoft "Either keep your users from pirating our stuff or we will revoke your Coded Licensing for Windows Media Player and ensure nobody can play DVD's on computers" in the late 00's. It wasn't until after those technologies were deployed that software companies began using them for security, e.g. using TPM modules to lock down disks or Secure Boot to lock down boot-code.
This is the same story replaying itself, but this time Intel is the victim. Pretty much all of the mid-sized and large web media companies are grouping together to build competing, free standards e.g. VP9. I expect HEVC to end up the same way many proprietary standards on video capture equipment ended up; obsolete in 3 years.
If you're looking to skip a processor generation, right now is the time.
Not so. HEVC and VP9 hardware acceleration is included with Nvida 10xxx and AMD rx 4xx and up so that blows that theory out.
FYI, I am currently a Linux sysadmin, working for a 100% Linux shop. Outside my gaming rig, I've run Linux for about 20 years. Longer than I've had my /. account. And I believe it is the first time I've been called a shill, and I've had my post down voted as Flamebait.
It really doesn't change the fact Microsoft announced this move one year ago. I'm not sure what you and the other snowflakes on this site were expecting.
Anyway, probably my last post on /. I am too old for online arguments.
Also I would like to point out about Linux support for something like Ubuntu 9,06/12 or CEntOS 5 on Kaby Lake or Ryzen? It would be absurb to expect support or to have them even run on newer hardware. Windows 7 came out in 2009 and is from the error of the products I described.
Do all the haters here expect Android gingerbread 2.2 to run on a brand new Android Nexus 6p or Samsung Galaxy s7? Will Samsung or Google provide free patches for Gingerbread on these devices? Ludicrous.
Look if you want to run an 8 year old OS then it is best to have older hardware around or run it in a VM. That to me is reasonable. Only this decade have I seen ABSOLUTE DEMAND to run 10+ year old operating systems on new hardware. Why?? It's ridiculous.
It does require work. If you don't want BSODs, ethernet, video, wifi, usb 3, nVME, etc you need a large amount of work.
THis is slashdot and people here feel this is 1990 where an OS can run easily on any CPU as the CPU just does math so it must be some crazy conspiracy by Microsoft to do evil. It is 2017 and the CPU is silicon on a chip to compete with the ipad. It does I/O, video, ethernet, usb 3, chipset features, raid, and lots more. These need drivers to work.
Not saying MS is a saint here. Just saying if AMD doesn't want to work on it how is Microsoft the bad guy here? My i7 4770K does my raid, it does my usb 3, it does some of my ethernet, it has my memory controller. In the past these were seperate chips on the motherboard. Today these are inside the CPU.
No others have noticed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
CPUs are whole silicon on a chip platform. This isn't 1990 anymore where they just do math and nothing special from the operating system is needed anymore. Thanks to Tablets and mobile the new thing is to put everything on the CPU.
No they don't. Security updates only. Features ended back in 2012 or 2013. Ryzen is a new feature therefore it's not supported as it's in extended support
Windows 7 will bsod on both Ryzen and kabylake. Drivers are needed and Intel and AMD are the bad guys who won't write them
How about until the agreed upon 1/14/2020 or whatever date in our fucking contracts?
They're blocking newer CPUs from accessing Windows Update and preventing them from downloading critical security patches. These patches do not require additional testing or development to work on PCs with the newer CPUs, and the newer CPUs do not magically make the gaping security holes go away.
Wrong. Windows 7 features are EOL. What is still supported is security. Ryzen qualifies as a new feature update. After 2012 MS is more focused on newer platforms and will only close exploits for older hardware.
That's because they use IE 7 and hired an Indian contractor to writethe software with quirks in all just to get the CSS to work. The thought process was it was more future proof being web based
What downsides? Yes the upside is you are compliant now for security and insurance purposes. Machines break man. That is life. You can't keep expecting them and PCs to work forever.
Reminds me of stories about a VP freaking out that the IBM 1981 hard disk went out on that mission critical machine or that 1978 digital PDP robot failing. The tech almost gets a write-up and raises hell that these things need to be upgraded !
Did any IT department learned any lessons from XP?
The Enterprise edition has no spyware and is a lot more secure and quicker with SMB file sharing than 7. Go make a GPO with custom looks if you don't like UI?
This can go very smooth if you plan and migrate and not be that costly if you start TODAY. A large enterprise should take a year to gradually migrate with little additional costs compared to wait and hire ontractors and 3rd party PM's
You have to switch to 10 anyway. Perhaps your IT department should be spending this time preparing for a migration strategy instead of panicking and waiting until the last minute.
Oh Ryzen is stable and fine with the anniversary edition of10. Just not earlier releases.
I do not understand slashdoters who get enraged and think vast conspiracy when an 8 year old OS can't run on a new CPU. Oh it must be a conspiracy by Microsoft right? The exf clocking and power are millisecond interval rocks on Ryzen dependent on UEFI and Windows 10 algorithms and drivers. No the CPU does more than process x86 instructions.
Google Ryzen BSOD? This happened before the review (I htink from Anatech or arstechnica) did the update to Windows 10 anniversary edition. The hardware drivers will not work with any other version including earlier versions of Windows 10.
A reviewer on youtube also put Kabylake on Windows 8.1 and it too BSOD every few minutes.
This isn't 1985 where a CPU just did arithmetic only. The CPU is the whole computer thanks to demand for tablets where Silcon on a chip is everything so an older OS today in this decade means everything including PCI express, bus, efi, Ethernet, and graphics drivers all have to be supported at the CPU as this is where the calculations are done today. Even raid is now done on the CPU. Running XP on a system is suicide as the system will not work properly due to not being optimized for specific algorithms or having drivers that function.
Boards do alot less these days too as the CPU takes over more and more functionality. In the old days before AthlonXP I remember the memory controller was board quality and chipset dependent.
We got along way as economically we are nowhere close to where the USSR was in the final days when people lined up for hours for a loaf of bread and milk or waited 10 years for a car.
However, I do imagine if a democrat gets elected next some nut right wingers will use guns and try to start a civil war. Not all republicans but 10% of the population for sure in my opinion as I read 1/3 of Republicans really do believe Obama was a muslim born in Kenya as fact!
Not an insult to conservative or Republican readers here. Just the 20% in the party with militant tendencies who read fake news
Easy it only counts if their own job is on the line. I got mine so screw you ... oh wait me? Baaahh
Actually Hairy you may want to look at FreeBSD. It has an ABI unlike Linux and changes are much much more minimal making it easy to upgrade without stuff craping out.
Unfortunately, it is not for Grandma or our users by far. FreeBSD gets updated all the time and with things not changing you can do a pkg-add or a make install clean at /usr/ports for any package. Since the kernel team and userland are all one there is that sense of integration. Also the scripts in /etc are simplistic. Not horrible if/fi else programs that break for each distro upgrade!
I hate RC scripts and logic SHOULD NEVER be in a config file ... except under Linux which is why upgrades fail besides the lack of an ABI forcing Xorg to break.
All those things that you claim are bad downsides, are the very things I like more about BSD and dislike about Linux. You've shown above how easy it is to solve your own complaints. I rather not have X and just install it if needed, that have tons of X shit by default that I don't need that I have to go down dependency hell lane to remove junk. And just try to see how far you can get ripping out systemd from Linux. ...yeah good luck with that. At least the PulseAudio and NetworkManager bullshit are easy fixes.
That's what I love about FreeBSD too, but hate sometimes. I love that it not only supports tinkering, but ENCOURAGES IT! THe whole system is built from the ground up to do whatever you want on it. Isn't that the traditional power of the PC over the Mac and appliances?
Problem is it rather is a pain in the ass if you want a quick desktop. But, it is very well designed. I loved /usr/share/examples where CVSUP used to be be. I remember FreeBSD 4.x used to have sample /etc/x scripts you can use. I HATE RC. FreeBSD scripts have # uncomment this line to enable X in the old examples with CVSUP (this is 10 years ago so I do not remember where the exact location was or name).
I do use turnkeylinux for simple appliances to fire up FAST if I want to code a website. But for someone with servers FreeBSD encourages more of work and less of trying to be the Windows of Unix like Linux is with GUI's and config programs that do things for you. And FreeBSD has much better documentation besides the handbook in /usr/docs including even Unix history. This is something you do not get unless you use it and see FreeBSD is not another distro but a whole new OS with a unified feel.
No it will be super Uber CGI effects and laughable story lines.
Please name one remake that was good like EVER!
Psycho for example tried to be redone what 3 times? Poltergeist was terrible. Star wars while not a remake but story line gets worse with each series. Even the prequels were better than Disney and I refuse to watch star trek
It has always interested me to know what drives companies to upgrade their systems. Let's say you have a farm of 1,000 servers that you've had for 5 years, doing useful stuff, running 12.04 - what incentive is there for you to upgrade?
If they are web facing, and under attack - sure, I get it.
If you are developing cutting edge software for deployment to other hosts - I get it.
But if you are using them to actually do work for your company, say, running some data mining, or hosting a big kafka cluster, why change? The logical point is when you rip the lot out and install new hardware (and decide on a new machine config, including OS) but for existing hardware, shouldn't the OS choice live for the life of the server?
Technical debt and hardware support.
Look you can't expect things to always magically work. Hardware dies, new standards come into play, newer software needs to interact, security fixes, etc. Have you read about struts exploit going on at arstechnica.com?
IE 6 problems haunted my last employer. Guess what they still use it!! In a VM now but still. Technology should always change as things always change. Looking forward and being agile means you pay less being proactive rather than reactive. Also being hacked using a 15 year old struts Java web install you also have the problem with talent who have struts on his resume of current skills. No one uses that anymore so employment and not overworking your existing employees to death with out of date technology because HR can't find someone based on a keyword with 5 years of experience.
Go download an iso and fire up a VM? Make sure install the handbook in the install as you will need it. Only downside to BSD is being conservative it is a very basic install. No bash or Xorg. You can install those and make it into a Linux like distro by installing bash and gnuls instead of bsd ls with --color option (how is that compared to Unix like lol). Also it comes with clang. GCC is still there via the ports in usr/ports as well as the binary pkg-add utility.
Clang eats ram for breakfast and I did a /usr/ports/x11org make install clean and it are up so much ram I didn't have any free to do a kill -9 :-(
But Zfs is awesome
Consider Freebsd? It's networking performance is very good and it's TCP/IP stack is the standard which is why Cisco used it and Juniper still does.
Freebsd is one of the most conservative and stable versions of Unix and the Freebsd handbook has excellent documentation. Also to mention FreeBSD specific features include jails, Zfs, and dtrace. Hyper-V and VMware support are top notch as well as both Microsoft and Amazon hosting Freebsd on their clouds.
It's quite obvious.
If you must upgrade try FreeBSD. We don't change things for the sake of changing them their and it is a very stable conservative version of Unix.
Of course it's hard to concentrate and get things accomplished when you are in meetings 6 hours a day talking about what your going to do rather than doing it.