I do... I have a laptop which I got from a friend of my sister. It had a cracked screen, I replaced it. The CPU is a Core Duo... Not 64-bit. From online reviews, I date it around mid 2007. (Fujitsu-Siemens Lifebook S7110, yes there are Core 2 Duo models, but mine isn't) It supports up to 4GB RAM (never tried, I only had 2x1GB modules lying around, which I used to upgrade from the 2x512MB modules) and runs both Windows XP Pro (license sticker included) and Ubuntu 12.04 LTS i686 just fine.
Now, granted, another of my laptops, also a Fujitsu-Siemens (Amilo Pa1510) is AMD Turion based and can run 64-bit. Alas, that one doesn't run Ubuntu 12.04 LTS fine, because the graphic chipset (ATI X1100) isn't supported well in the open source drivers and ATI dropped support from the proprietary ones:-(. So, on the road, I take the S7110....
That said, from approximately mid-2008, I expect everything to be 64-bit. However, 5-year old gear can be perfectly usable.
I'm not 100% sure, because I haven't installed using optical media in ages. Ubuntu doesn't enable the popularity contest by default, nor does it ask. If you want it, you have to enable it on purpose (the way your did, or using the GUI, somewhere in Update Manager Settings).
If you use PXE install (or alternate install using the CD, which is basically the same), I think it asks you. Debian definitely asks, regardless of installation method... well, ok, not if you use debootstrap. PXE isn't already very common for the normal mortal, so I'd expect debootstrap to be used even less;-)
For the record, if it asks me and it's one of my personal machines, I enable popularity-contest. I should check my debootstrap created machines, though... I don't think I did it there.
Ah, and do keep in mind how the Ubuntu website directs you to what you have to download. If you "don't know for sure", it directs you to the i686 version. So, someone trying Linux with not too much knowledge about computers will use the i686 version. At least, last time I checked the Ubuntu website, it was that way.
The only Atom CPUs, intended for netbook or desktop usage, that are not 64-bit enabled are the two "original" netbook Atoms, being the N270 and N280. Ever since the Atom 230 and the Atom 330 (the only two without a letter designating their usage), all Atoms are 64-bit provided they are for netbook or desktop usage, which means their model number is prefixed with N or D.
It is true that the Atoms with model numbers prefixed with E or Z are 32-bit, but those are for embedded application (E) or "mobile internet devices" (Z). I'm sure you can get them, but it's much much harder. Interestingly these Atoms are those that support hardware virtualization, which I always found odd. The first Atom desktop CPU to support hardware virtualization is the D2700, which is a very recent one. (Do note, software-only virtualization works. I have a Windows XP VM in VirtualBox on my 330-based Linux desktop)
So, I don't find it all that surprising that most Atom CPUs you encounter are 64-bit enabled.
The A series have terribly slow cores that aren't much better than Atom cores.
Citation needed. The cores are based on the Mobile Phenom II architecture Llano. In Benchmarks the A6-3650 ranks around a Phenom II X4. While this is not top of the line, it's pretty decent power.
Atoms aren't even in the same ballpark. Perhaps you are thinking of the E-350, which is in the Atoms league but with better graphics? Try even finding Atom motherboard supporting SATA3, USB3 and 16GB RAM (many of the FM1 motherboards support up to 64GB RAM!)
FM1 is a dead end
So what? Intel switches sockets more often than its underwear. In this price category, upgradeability doesn't matter much. These kind of machines get built, used, and replaced. Never upgraded.
Even the i3 stomps the A8's wimpy cores.
... but you'd have to buy a graphics card. Intel isn't exactly known to have snappy graphics. Depending on your workload, more cores might be better. I was surprised, though, to see that motherboards for Intel CPU have become much cheaper. Last time, I checked most motherboards for Intel CPUs were massively more expensive. Coupled with a more expensive CPU, this made the platform uninteresting for budget computers.
A year ago, the competing i3s were slower too and the price of the motherboards were higher. Back then the An series were much better bang/buck.
The modern i3s are much faster (especially per core). Still, the cheapest i3 I can find (i3-2120) is 112.90€. That's 26€ more expensive than the A6-3650 I quoted. To have an equivalent motherboard, I'll stay within brand (Gigabyte) and set as conditions 4 RAM slots (as 4x4GB is cheapest today), SATA3, USB3. The cheapest here is GIGABYTE GA-B75M-D3H at 83.90€, which admittedly is 16€ cheaper and 2x8GB kit RAM DDR3-1333 from ADATA (67.98€) which is identical to my original quote. Overall cost of the i3 platform is thus indeed just 10€ more expensive. As said, this is mainly because motherboard prices became much lower than in the past. So, yes, you pay 4% more, for a 17% CPU power increase (based on passmark value). In the graphics department, the view is much less rosy (again, according to passmark values): the HD 6530D in the AMD A6-3650 delivers more than double the performance of the Intel i3 HD 2120. You'll have to compensate that with a graphics card, which costs money and east power and most likely has an additional fan and is thus louder.
One needs to look at the complete platform and decide what is more important. I guess the budget conscious gamer would be better off with the i3/Graphics card combo. The budget conscious occasional gamer, is probably better of with the AMD An processors. The budget conscious office dweller: i3 with integrated graphics.
a lot of buyers were very disappointed in the performance once purchased.
I wasn't and most reviews I read were actually quite positive. You don't expect i5 or i7 performance from these kind of CPUs. What I got was silence, enough power to have headroom and decent graphics all for a decent price.
AMD A8 (and A6 and A4) have a graphics core on board. Those graphics cores even are quite sufficient for non-hardcore gaming. I'm a fan of the FM1 platorm, and think it is way underrated. It has decent processing power, decent graphics, is very quiet (even with stock cooler) and not expensive at all. Example: A6-3650 (86.90€), 2x8GB kit RAM DDR3-1333 from ADATA (67.98€), motherboard GIGABYTE GA-A75-D3H (99.90€). That's quite some power for 254.78€ (including taxes, excluding shipping -- prices taken at Alternate). Like many of us, we just reuse the disk and the case we already own. There is no need for a graphics card in such a system, unless you're a hardcore gamer.
So, if you use a debit card, it knows automagically to debit from which account you want the money to be taken? I mean, if I buy food it should come from the common account, if I buy and electronic gizmo, it should come from my personal account. You card can guess that, right? Mine can't, and so I have two different debit cards.
I have five cards with the samer issuer. A debit and a credit card for the common account with my wife, and a debit and two credit cards for my personal account with the same bank. (Before anyone asks: these cards have different "functions" for accounting reasons and I have no credit card debt whatsoever. )
My three and a half year 'dumb phone', I'm typing this, begs to differ. Runs Opera Mini, midpSSH, Facebook Java application, Google Maps, and many more. It can make calls, SMS, email (POP3/IMAP). Battery still holds a day.
All that on a dumb phone...
Europeans have the strange habit of looking at the full cost of a device. To a European that 13" Apple MacBook Pro with Retina Display costs 1275€, and *surpise* in the European stores it is that way that it will be displayed. (Given VAT is more around 20% than something else, that MBPro would be 1440€ and shipping most likely complimentary)
I have never said that the Raspberry Pi foundation has been disingenuous about pricing,. I just told what such a thing would cost effectively. In the end, to the customer, it is that price that matters.
Finally, I have the invoice of my Farnell Raspberry Pi on my desk here right now and it says: 27,25 GBP, without VAT, without shipping. Go figure, that isn't 35$ either! It's 42$. I'd wager to say that getting a 35$ sans-tax, sans-shipping Raspberry Pi is impossible today. Perhaps in a year, but now? Definitely not. Do I blame anyone for that? Of course not! It's still a nice toy which is not expensive.
I have a hard time understanding what provoked the aggressive tone in your post, as I just tried to show to others what they as a customer will pay. It still isn't much.
Given we're talking about an additional 300€, I most likely won't be doing it any time soon as I need the funds elsewhere. I also have no real use for a beowulf cluster, and I would only do it for the "it's cool value" as you say rightfully. Oh, well, who knows:-) Hardware is insanely cheap these days, so if you really want a beowulf cluster, I'm pretty sure you could go with new material, spend less than 1000€ and get great results. Of course, that kind of money may or may not be a bit overkill for a weekend project. (For me, it falls in the category: "too expensive").
In the price I quoted, the SD card and power supply were included. I have no need for cases and I have a big enough switch (so no wireless required). In summary: No additional costs. It's a fun little device, but it's not meant as a drop in replacement for your crappy nettop. It's to experiment with and try to build fun stuff with.
For the record, one of the things that makes it awesome is that it has RCA out and not only HMDI. Why? Because I don't own a HDTV and many people most likely have an old spare TV lying around. No additional cost. I found it thrilling to see the linux boot screen coming up on my old 83cm 16:9 CRT TV (which we use daily. We don't replace hardware that is not broken, hence I have no HDTV and won't until said CRT will break)
More close to 40€ for Model B. I know, I have two. One was from RS Components and was ~38€ and the other one was from Farnell/Element 14 and was ~42&euro, including VAT and shipping. You need a micro-usb power supply (hard to find relatively cheap, at least where I live. Best buy them with the device) and an SD card. The full price of my two Pis including SD and power supplies: 106,21€, where SD cards and power supplies were bought locally and on sale.
Now, I just need 6 more for an 8 node beowulf cluster;-)
Official linux NVidia support = never going to happen. Bumblebee is a reverse engineer project and you know as well as I do that the drivers produced by such initiatives rarely work well: A laptop I use has ATI graphics, unsupported by ATI proprietary drivers. The open source drivers are horrible and ATI provides documentation, or so I've been told. Imagine how it's when they don't even have documentation.
Besides, I know for fact that these optimus systems aren't all that great on Windows either. It often has trouble detecting what it should do, and fails miserably. My brother has an identical laptop and getting the original GTA3 to run on it was horrible.
With your requirements, no laptop is ever going to be good enough. There are no desktop NVidea Optimus cards as far as I know. (I should Google, I'm not all that certain)
You are talking about NVidia Optimus which is not and never will be supported on Linux. The little run-in Linus had with NVidia is about this. I have one of these laptops (Dell XPS 15 L502x), and I simply blacklisted the NVidia card and let run everything on Intel. Works fine from what I see, but I don't actually use that laptop all that much.
Basically this is a case of "caveat emptor", and I plead guitly too. I read "NVidea", said: "great linux support" without doing any research and... well. that's about it. My mistake. Luckily it was only a 525€ mistake and the laptop is pretty damn fine for the rest. Just no 3D.
I tell to everyone I meet: Do not trust someone in IT who wears a suit. If they do, they usually only know the buzzwords and want to sell you something. The t-shirt guy will fix your problems.
Probably age. They started off as young enthousiast guys passionate of Linux, then life caught up with them and they noticed that the computing part of life takes less importance. Since Linux still (but not quite as much as in the past) requires some effort, they are right back in the arms of Mother Redmond.
I do realize I'm a 6 digit UID too, but I'm fully on Linux.... I haven't got children yet, but I do have a wife and she considerably reduced my "quality computing time". I can only imagine with children: probably less than 30 minutes a day, on a good day.
My nearing a decade (8 years, think) old laser printer doesn't. I have no intention to replace a small-office class printer that cost an arm and a leg back in the day. Besides, it prints perfectly fine and it should easily work for another 5 to 10 years.
Wow, I just started to Google that. I thought the OP was someone paranoid. RFID credit cards do exist. I don't think I've ever seen one but I seriously wonder who in their right might thought this was a good idea.
Slashdot Mirror
I do... I have a laptop which I got from a friend of my sister. It had a cracked screen, I replaced it. The CPU is a Core Duo... Not 64-bit. From online reviews, I date it around mid 2007. (Fujitsu-Siemens Lifebook S7110, yes there are Core 2 Duo models, but mine isn't) It supports up to 4GB RAM (never tried, I only had 2x1GB modules lying around, which I used to upgrade from the 2x512MB modules) and runs both Windows XP Pro (license sticker included) and Ubuntu 12.04 LTS i686 just fine.
Now, granted, another of my laptops, also a Fujitsu-Siemens (Amilo Pa1510) is AMD Turion based and can run 64-bit. Alas, that one doesn't run Ubuntu 12.04 LTS fine, because the graphic chipset (ATI X1100) isn't supported well in the open source drivers and ATI dropped support from the proprietary ones :-(. So, on the road, I take the S7110....
That said, from approximately mid-2008, I expect everything to be 64-bit. However, 5-year old gear can be perfectly usable.
I'm not 100% sure, because I haven't installed using optical media in ages. Ubuntu doesn't enable the popularity contest by default, nor does it ask. If you want it, you have to enable it on purpose (the way your did, or using the GUI, somewhere in Update Manager Settings).
If you use PXE install (or alternate install using the CD, which is basically the same), I think it asks you. Debian definitely asks, regardless of installation method... well, ok, not if you use debootstrap. PXE isn't already very common for the normal mortal, so I'd expect debootstrap to be used even less ;-)
For the record, if it asks me and it's one of my personal machines, I enable popularity-contest. I should check my debootstrap created machines, though... I don't think I did it there.
Ah, and do keep in mind how the Ubuntu website directs you to what you have to download. If you "don't know for sure", it directs you to the i686 version. So, someone trying Linux with not too much knowledge about computers will use the i686 version. At least, last time I checked the Ubuntu website, it was that way.
The only Atom CPUs, intended for netbook or desktop usage, that are not 64-bit enabled are the two "original" netbook Atoms, being the N270 and N280. Ever since the Atom 230 and the Atom 330 (the only two without a letter designating their usage), all Atoms are 64-bit provided they are for netbook or desktop usage, which means their model number is prefixed with N or D.
It is true that the Atoms with model numbers prefixed with E or Z are 32-bit, but those are for embedded application (E) or "mobile internet devices" (Z). I'm sure you can get them, but it's much much harder. Interestingly these Atoms are those that support hardware virtualization, which I always found odd. The first Atom desktop CPU to support hardware virtualization is the D2700, which is a very recent one. (Do note, software-only virtualization works. I have a Windows XP VM in VirtualBox on my 330-based Linux desktop)
So, I don't find it all that surprising that most Atom CPUs you encounter are 64-bit enabled.
Citation needed. The cores are based on the Mobile Phenom II architecture Llano. In Benchmarks the A6-3650 ranks around a Phenom II X4. While this is not top of the line, it's pretty decent power.
Atoms aren't even in the same ballpark. Perhaps you are thinking of the E-350, which is in the Atoms league but with better graphics? Try even finding Atom motherboard supporting SATA3, USB3 and 16GB RAM (many of the FM1 motherboards support up to 64GB RAM!)
So what? Intel switches sockets more often than its underwear. In this price category, upgradeability doesn't matter much. These kind of machines get built, used, and replaced. Never upgraded.
... but you'd have to buy a graphics card. Intel isn't exactly known to have snappy graphics. Depending on your workload, more cores might be better. I was surprised, though, to see that motherboards for Intel CPU have become much cheaper. Last time, I checked most motherboards for Intel CPUs were massively more expensive. Coupled with a more expensive CPU, this made the platform uninteresting for budget computers.
A year ago, the competing i3s were slower too and the price of the motherboards were higher. Back then the An series were much better bang/buck.
The modern i3s are much faster (especially per core). Still, the cheapest i3 I can find (i3-2120) is 112.90€. That's 26€ more expensive than the A6-3650 I quoted. To have an equivalent motherboard, I'll stay within brand (Gigabyte) and set as conditions 4 RAM slots (as 4x4GB is cheapest today), SATA3, USB3. The cheapest here is GIGABYTE GA-B75M-D3H at 83.90€, which admittedly is 16€ cheaper and 2x8GB kit RAM DDR3-1333 from ADATA (67.98€) which is identical to my original quote. Overall cost of the i3 platform is thus indeed just 10€ more expensive. As said, this is mainly because motherboard prices became much lower than in the past. So, yes, you pay 4% more, for a 17% CPU power increase (based on passmark value). In the graphics department, the view is much less rosy (again, according to passmark values): the HD 6530D in the AMD A6-3650 delivers more than double the performance of the Intel i3 HD 2120. You'll have to compensate that with a graphics card, which costs money and east power and most likely has an additional fan and is thus louder.
One needs to look at the complete platform and decide what is more important. I guess the budget conscious gamer would be better off with the i3/Graphics card combo. The budget conscious occasional gamer, is probably better of with the AMD An processors. The budget conscious office dweller: i3 with integrated graphics.
I wasn't and most reviews I read were actually quite positive. You don't expect i5 or i7 performance from these kind of CPUs. What I got was silence, enough power to have headroom and decent graphics all for a decent price.
AMD A8 (and A6 and A4) have a graphics core on board. Those graphics cores even are quite sufficient for non-hardcore gaming. I'm a fan of the FM1 platorm, and think it is way underrated. It has decent processing power, decent graphics, is very quiet (even with stock cooler) and not expensive at all. Example: A6-3650 (86.90€), 2x8GB kit RAM DDR3-1333 from ADATA (67.98€), motherboard GIGABYTE GA-A75-D3H (99.90€). That's quite some power for 254.78€ (including taxes, excluding shipping -- prices taken at Alternate). Like many of us, we just reuse the disk and the case we already own. There is no need for a graphics card in such a system, unless you're a hardcore gamer.
So, if you use a debit card, it knows automagically to debit from which account you want the money to be taken? I mean, if I buy food it should come from the common account, if I buy and electronic gizmo, it should come from my personal account. You card can guess that, right? Mine can't, and so I have two different debit cards.
I have five cards with the samer issuer. A debit and a credit card for the common account with my wife, and a debit and two credit cards for my personal account with the same bank. (Before anyone asks: these cards have different "functions" for accounting reasons and I have no credit card debt whatsoever. )
My three and a half year 'dumb phone', I'm typing this, begs to differ. Runs Opera Mini, midpSSH, Facebook Java application, Google Maps, and many more. It can make calls, SMS, email (POP3/IMAP). Battery still holds a day. All that on a dumb phone...
The "strange" part was sarcastic, but yeah, I know the reasons because I am European.
It's okay. An apology on slashdot is already a rare thing :-) I'm happy with the Raspberry Pi, happy with the price and happy with I can do with it.
Europeans have the strange habit of looking at the full cost of a device. To a European that 13" Apple MacBook Pro with Retina Display costs 1275€, and *surpise* in the European stores it is that way that it will be displayed. (Given VAT is more around 20% than something else, that MBPro would be 1440€ and shipping most likely complimentary)
I have never said that the Raspberry Pi foundation has been disingenuous about pricing,. I just told what such a thing would cost effectively. In the end, to the customer, it is that price that matters.
Finally, I have the invoice of my Farnell Raspberry Pi on my desk here right now and it says: 27,25 GBP, without VAT, without shipping. Go figure, that isn't 35$ either! It's 42$. I'd wager to say that getting a 35$ sans-tax, sans-shipping Raspberry Pi is impossible today. Perhaps in a year, but now? Definitely not. Do I blame anyone for that? Of course not! It's still a nice toy which is not expensive.
I have a hard time understanding what provoked the aggressive tone in your post, as I just tried to show to others what they as a customer will pay. It still isn't much.
Given we're talking about an additional 300€, I most likely won't be doing it any time soon as I need the funds elsewhere. I also have no real use for a beowulf cluster, and I would only do it for the "it's cool value" as you say rightfully. Oh, well, who knows :-) Hardware is insanely cheap these days, so if you really want a beowulf cluster, I'm pretty sure you could go with new material, spend less than 1000€ and get great results. Of course, that kind of money may or may not be a bit overkill for a weekend project. (For me, it falls in the category: "too expensive").
In the price I quoted, the SD card and power supply were included. I have no need for cases and I have a big enough switch (so no wireless required). In summary: No additional costs. It's a fun little device, but it's not meant as a drop in replacement for your crappy nettop. It's to experiment with and try to build fun stuff with.
For the record, one of the things that makes it awesome is that it has RCA out and not only HMDI. Why? Because I don't own a HDTV and many people most likely have an old spare TV lying around. No additional cost. I found it thrilling to see the linux boot screen coming up on my old 83cm 16:9 CRT TV (which we use daily. We don't replace hardware that is not broken, hence I have no HDTV and won't until said CRT will break)
More close to 40€ for Model B. I know, I have two. One was from RS Components and was ~38€ and the other one was from Farnell/Element 14 and was ~42&euro, including VAT and shipping. You need a micro-usb power supply (hard to find relatively cheap, at least where I live. Best buy them with the device) and an SD card. The full price of my two Pis including SD and power supplies: 106,21€, where SD cards and power supplies were bought locally and on sale.
Now, I just need 6 more for an 8 node beowulf cluster ;-)
Besides, I know for fact that these optimus systems aren't all that great on Windows either. It often has trouble detecting what it should do, and fails miserably. My brother has an identical laptop and getting the original GTA3 to run on it was horrible.
With your requirements, no laptop is ever going to be good enough. There are no desktop NVidea Optimus cards as far as I know. (I should Google, I'm not all that certain)
You are talking about NVidia Optimus which is not and never will be supported on Linux. The little run-in Linus had with NVidia is about this. I have one of these laptops (Dell XPS 15 L502x), and I simply blacklisted the NVidia card and let run everything on Intel. Works fine from what I see, but I don't actually use that laptop all that much.
Basically this is a case of "caveat emptor", and I plead guitly too. I read "NVidea", said: "great linux support" without doing any research and... well. that's about it. My mistake. Luckily it was only a 525€ mistake and the laptop is pretty damn fine for the rest. Just no 3D.
I tell to everyone I meet: Do not trust someone in IT who wears a suit. If they do, they usually only know the buzzwords and want to sell you something. The t-shirt guy will fix your problems.
What are they worth? 5$ I prefer keeping it...
Probably age. They started off as young enthousiast guys passionate of Linux, then life caught up with them and they noticed that the computing part of life takes less importance. Since Linux still (but not quite as much as in the past) requires some effort, they are right back in the arms of Mother Redmond.
I do realize I'm a 6 digit UID too, but I'm fully on Linux .... I haven't got children yet, but I do have a wife and she considerably reduced my "quality computing time". I can only imagine with children: probably less than 30 minutes a day, on a good day.
Only the professional version. Home versions do not have these downgrade rights.
My nearing a decade (8 years, think) old laser printer doesn't. I have no intention to replace a small-office class printer that cost an arm and a leg back in the day. Besides, it prints perfectly fine and it should easily work for another 5 to 10 years.
If the IPv6 starts with fe80, don't worry too much about it.
I'm indeed not in the US. Probably the reason, I haven't seen any... Hopefully, I won't see any... ever....
Wow, I just started to Google that. I thought the OP was someone paranoid. RFID credit cards do exist. I don't think I've ever seen one but I seriously wonder who in their right might thought this was a good idea.
There are RFIDs in credit cards? Really? Have you got more information on that?