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Windows 8 Graphics: Microsoft Has Hardware-Accelerated Everything

MrSeb writes "Microsoft has detailed the extensive changes made to the Windows 8 graphics subsystem and DirectX 11.1. In short, everything in Windows 8 is hardware accelerated, and as a result its text, 2D, and 3D performance will blow Windows 7 away. DirectX 11.1 has also received a significant overhaul that should result in faster and more efficient games and applications. The bulk of the graphics changes in Windows 8 pertain to hardware acceleration for simple, typographically-rich Metro-style apps. In Windows 8, the rendering speed of text and simple shapes has been massively increased across the board: Title and heading text renders 336% faster than Windows 7; Lines render 184% faster; Rectangles render 438% faster; and so on. The rendering of JPEG, PNG, and GIF image files has also been improved in Windows 8, mostly by expanding SIMD usage. In one demo, Windows 8 decodes and renders 64 JPEGs in 4.38 seconds, while Windows 7 performs the same task in 7.28 seconds. Amongst a few changes to DirectX, the most significant feature in DX 11.1 is the new, simplified, unified Direct3D 11.1 API, which finally brings together the many API offshoots that MS has implemented in recent years."

563 comments

  1. crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    I bet it also crashes much much faster!!

    1. Re:crash faster by dynamo52 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes I know you trying to be funny but as an IT consultant for small and midsized businesses, I haven't seen a Windows system totally crash since XP and even then rarely saw any crashes after SP3. For all the haters here on Slashdot, Windows is still by far the best desktop environment available for use in a business setting.

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    2. Re:crash faster by anss123 · · Score: 1

      Many Windows crashes was caused by hardware acceleration. As a result Vista supported less hardware acceleration than XP.

      This makes me wonder if what they've done is gain back some of that performance. They say they render lines and Rectangles faster, and that's hardware accelerated on XP, while software on Vista (don't know about 7).

    3. Re:crash faster by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      Joke aside, I wonder what this will do to battery life on a typical laptop?

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    4. Re:crash faster by Tastecicles · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I've seen three Windows 7 crashes - caused by overheating graphics cores, all on the same computer.

      --
      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    5. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Do you understand what happens when you give applications direct access to the hardware? The #1 source of crashes on the NT line has always been video card issues. Windows 8 will have the same problem. These idiotic moves will destabilize the OS until they can patch it in Windows 8 SP3.

      And why do you give a shit about hardware acceleration on a desktop computer in business? Do your Office fonts not load up fast enough? Is that 336% faster going to help you? From my experience, the only thing that matters for speed in business settings is antiquated hardware, database settings, and network speeds.

    6. Re:crash faster by dynamo52 · · Score: 1, Informative

      Actually I have to correct myself. I have had servers crash but that was primarily due to being improperly configured.

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    7. Re:crash faster by billcopc · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well then you can't blame the software for a hardware failure. I was running my original Windows 7 installation until a few days ago, when I decided to start fresh. 3 years without any significant problems, it's been the smoothest experience so far. I distinctly remember the day it launched, my coworkers asked about it, and they had to ask twice when they heard me speak the words "Windows 7 is fucking awesome". This, coming from a guy running a heavily-modified Gentoo-KDE workstation, bragging about 300-day uptime with XP relegated to a tiny VM on a side monitor.

      3 years later, well, I still think Windows 7 is great. Does what I expect from Windows, nothing more, nothing less. Runs fast, supports all my hardware, sleeps/resumes without a hitch, uptime is dependent on whether I care to install monthly updates. Pretty much my only gripe is I wish the default shell were Bash instead of CMD (and Cygwin still sucks).

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    8. Re:crash faster by rishistar · · Score: 4, Funny

      What time does it now take to draw the entire screen blue?

      --
      Professor Karmadillo Songs of Science
    9. Re:crash faster by Gendibal · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Windows is still by far the best desktop environment available for use in a business setting.

      Windows is only the "best" desktop environment for business purely because most business use MS Office. Those businesses that DON'T use MS Office (and there a a surprising number, which is increasing with each "improvement" in Office releases), funnily enough would say that Windows is NOT the "best" desktop environment for business.

    10. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes I know you trying to be funny but as an IT consultant for small and midsized businesses, I haven't seen a Windows system totally crash since XP and even then rarely saw any crashes after SP3. For all the haters here on Slashdot, Windows is still by far the best desktop environment available for use in a business setting.

      Holy Strawman, Batman!

    11. Re:crash faster by epyT-R · · Score: 5, Informative

      applications don't get direct access.. drivers do. if the drivers clobber things they shouldn't, they can crash the kernel.. just like the unix derivatives in service today.

    12. Re:crash faster by toygeek · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I was a Linux guy for many years, ran RedHat, CentOS, Ubuntu, Debian... all on servers and all on the desktop. I am more satisfied with Windows 7 than I was any of those OS's. They were good, and when I was in the Linux server business, they were vital for remaining integrated with my servers. But anymore, Windows 7 has better apps available (OMG you have to PAY for them?! OMG!! yes who cares they're good) and is plenty stable. I no longer have to reboot every day. I reboot when its needed for an update or something else, but not because "windows is acting weird, I had better reboot."

      The truth of the matter is that I am impressed with MS's bounce back from Vista, moving forward with a nice stable OS that is easy to use and easy to work on, too. I look forward to Windows 8, although I'm nervous about the huge paradigm shift and what it'll do for computing at large. I've had the start menu for almost 20 years, I'm kind of used to it. But, times change and we've got to change with them, like it or not. The hardware acceleration is about time, IMHO. They've apparently streamlined it enough that they can start optimizing for every day tasks. I wish them the best, because frankly, like it or not, the Desktop OS's run throughout the world, are Windows based. Anyone who is still waiting for the "year of the Linux Desktop" will be waiting for a long time.

    13. Re:crash faster by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Probably improve it, seeing how both OS X and iOS are hardware accelerated through and through and deliver solid battery life.

    14. Re:crash faster by dynamo52 · · Score: 1

      In the handful of malware cases I've seen on a Win7 system, the have been limited to userland and easily cleaned. As to rebooted they are primarily reserved for software updates and installations requiring drivers.

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    15. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had to replace two windows laptops due to video chip burn outs.. agree, not crashes, just new computers.. wait, and why the word "haters"?

    16. Re:crash faster by SeaFox · · Score: 2, Informative

      My Windows 8 RP install crashed itself three days ago, and the install was only two weeks old. Tried a reboot and the system booted up already logged in to my user account (and this was a full reboot, BIOS screen and all) and I couldn't get past the login screen to log out of it properly. Tried rebooting again and the system wouldn't boot to Windows 8 at all. It went into a self-repair mechanism and couldn't fix the issue. I also couldn't "refresh" or "reset" the installation. Only solution was a full reformat of the hard disk.

      Thank goodness it was a dual-boot machine to start with and I could still boot into XP-64 (that was on a separate internal drive). Was able to save some configuration files but lost a few actual files. So I guess it was a disk directory issue.

    17. Re:crash faster by dynamo52 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But it isn't just office. Active directory is much easier to deploy and manage than an assortment of linux servers running ldap, DNS, etc. Business isn't just email, word, and excel. It is about effortless collaboration and communication.

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    18. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had to replace two windows laptops due to video chip burn outs.. agree, not crashes, just new computers.. wait, and why the word "haters"?

      More likely an extremely well known defect in Nvidia BGA packaging.

    19. Re:crash faster by flyingfsck · · Score: 0, Troll

      It is easy to make Windows 7 crash. Just run Microsoft's Skype. It crashes the whole computer hard about once every two weeks.

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    20. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You should give PowerShell a chance. It's built in and it's actually pretty cool once you learn the environment.

    21. Re:crash faster by LordLimecat · · Score: 3, Funny

      SEE? Windows is buggy!

      A REAL OS would have just kept on chugging until those puppies burned out.

    22. Re:crash faster by LordLimecat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      just like every single operating system in service today.

      There, FTFY.

    23. Re:crash faster by Gendibal · · Score: 2

      AD is nothing to do with DESKTOP environment - which is what we were talking about. AD is the NETWORK infrastructure.

    24. Re:crash faster by Barsteward · · Score: 5, Funny

      "due to being improperly configured."

      was that during install time when you inserted the Windows install disk instead of SuSE or Redhat? --

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    25. Re:crash faster by dynamo52 · · Score: 1

      Fair enough but then there is the issue of readily available, fully supported, Industry specific software.

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    26. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      One bluescreen in 7 months Windows 7, I must say they are definitely improving. (ran some hardware stresstests after, and found nothing.)

      osx for estheticity
      linux for diversity
      windows for jobsecurity

      Seriously though, i'm happy to say that after years of absence (ever since NT4 fased out, to be exact,) a couple of Microsoft based devices are finding their way to my home again. Later than Win{,phone}7 stuff is pretty shiny.

      No way near replacing my debian netbook (and desktop macbook) yet though. But my main phone functionality seems to have migrated migrated towards the Phone7.5 device,... out of choice :D

      t
      --
      echo -e "\e #8"

    27. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You will still get a start menu and normal desktop if you minimize the metro interface, as long as your not running an arm processor.

    28. Re:crash faster by DesScorp · · Score: 2

      I bet it also crashes much much faster!!

      Jokes aside, I've been testing the latest release, and not only is it stable, for the first time in my experience, a new Microsoft OS is faster on older hardware than the previous versions. Yes, I know Apple did that for years, but it's still a welcome trend for users (if not for hardware makers, as it provides less incentive to go out and buy new stuff". I've been pleasantly surprised how fast it is thus far. I hate the new interface paradigm, but performance-wise, I just can't complain.

      --
      Life is hard, and the world is cruel
    29. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As IT consultant for small and midized business, I have seen Windows 7 and Windows Vista to crash multiple times to BSOD. And so far best what I have seen from desktop environments, it has been KDE SC (4.6 or later).
      And that even a case with a private customers whoms has kids what tries to tweak everything.

      So best is KDE SC for business and home use if you just have apps (or games)

    30. Re:crash faster by maestroX · · Score: 1

      just like every single operating system in service today except MINIX

      ..runs..

    31. Re:crash faster by hobarrera · · Score: 1

      I hate windows a great deal, but I must admit I've seldom seen people complain about windows 7 crashing, so I guess at least they finally gotten rid of that.
      When it comes to freezes and slowdowns, I've heard a pretty great deal though.

    32. Re:crash faster by hobarrera · · Score: 1

      C'mon, the only reason this is downvotes is because of fanboyism, it's cleary intended to be funny, and it very much is.

    33. Re:crash faster by ByronHope · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yes, PowerShell is very useful especially if you are managing a large environment, well worth the investment in learning. I forced myself to only use PowerShell for last six months and it is good. Some simple bash commands like ls work in PowerShell. Having said that I did install ActiveState Perl today because I missed Perl and someone gave me a screwed up data file that needed a good cleanup. Could have parsed it in PowerShell, but Perl is so easy...

    34. Re:crash faster by qu33ksilver · · Score: 2

      Pretty much my only gripe is I wish the default shell were Bash instead of CMD (and Cygwin still sucks).

      Well, you have powershell for that. In case you didn't know, Powershell is windows' answer to bash. It is a runtime interpreter, has a programming language of its own and can automate any kind of administrative task in seconds. Its pretty cool.

    35. Re:crash faster by Xiaran · · Score: 2

      In QNX *most* drivers drivers will not crash the OS.

    36. Re:crash faster by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not true. Many embedded systems use microkernels that can't do this. The driver can issue DMA requests, but it must call into the microkernel to request some memory for the target or the IOMMU will raise an exception.

      It's increasingly easy to implement operating systems where buggy drivers can't trash the entire system now that most consumer CPUs come with an IOMMU. If you're using an nVidia GPU, almost all of the complex logic is actually in userspace. All that the kernel-space driver does is set up a context on the GPU with a command submission buffer mapped into userspace and allocate memory in VRAM or in main memory accessible from the GPU. The card can only DMA to regions registered in the GART, so there's basically nothing a malicious or buggy userspace program can do except trash its own memory and fill the image buffer that he windowing system will composite for its window with nonsense. High end NICs (e.g. infiniband) have also been designed in this way for a long time, because the overhead of going via the kernel was too high.

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      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    37. Re:crash faster by Macthorpe · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Ha ha ha! Oh gosh, that's funny! That's really funny! Do you write your own material? Do you? Because that is so fresh. "Windows crashes all the time!". You know, I've, I've never heard anyone make that joke before. Hmm. You're the first. I've never heard anyone reference, reference that in geek circles before. Because that's what always used to happen? Isn't it? Windows crashing. And, and yet you've taken that and used it out of context to insult Microsoft in this everyday situation. God what a clever, smart person you must be, to come up with a joke like that all by yourself. That's so fresh too. Any, any Dr. DOS jokes you want to throw at me too as long as we're hitting these phenomena at the height of their popularity? God you're so funny!

      (with thanks to Seth McFarlane)

      --
      "It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
    38. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like what? I can't think of an os that i couldn't crash.

    39. Re:crash faster by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Most likely it will improve it. In general, running tasks on the GPU uses less power than on the CPU. It's almost always more power-efficient to use dedicated silicon than general purpose, and while a GPU is a general-purpose processor these days it's still heavily optimised for this kind of task, whereas the CPU is not.

      It's also worth noting that MS has had a long time to tune this. The original implementation of GPU-accelerated font rendering was done by MSR about a decade ago. In the time it's taken them to transfer the technology from research to a product, academic research projects have spun out companies, had them bought by MS, and had their products integrated into the MS lineup. This is a pretty good case study of what's wrong with Microsoft's interaction with its research division.

      --
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    40. Re:crash faster by kenorland · · Score: 1

      Yes, Microsoft has fixed crashes, and Windows is now at least technically an acceptable system. But the only reason it is any good in a business setting is because people actually know it and because backwards compatibility is important. Objectively, if Microsoft would offer Windows and Office as a new product on the market, they'd be laughed at: Microsoft's products are ridiculously complex, inconsistent, and buggy.

    41. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ram does not go in the pci slots, how often do i have to remind you!

    42. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if *any* driver can make the os crash, then *every* driver can make the os crash.

    43. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try mingw / msys. I use it to get bash and basic unix shell utilities for Windows 7.

    44. Re:crash faster by hvm2hvm · · Score: 1

      Not necessarily, some OSes have drivers separated in groups

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      ics
    45. Re:crash faster by phonewebcam · · Score: 4, Funny

      You can use Windows as a server? Gosh, next you'll be saying they do phones too.

    46. Re:crash faster by kenorland · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Active directory is much easier to deploy and manage than an assortment of linux servers running ldap, DNS, etc

      DNS, LDAP, etc. are available with easy-to-use web-based managment interfaces as appliances, far easier than maintaining Microsoft stuff. But that's the wrong argument to make, because the entire style of computing Active Directory represents is itself obsolete.

      Business isn't just email, word, and excel. It is about effortless collaboration and communication.

      Yes, and cloud solutions like Google Apps and Zoho beat anything Microsoft has to offer hands down, both in terms of usability and ease of management. Microsoft knows that their stuff is obsolete, which is why they'll drag you into cloud computing whether you want to or not anyway, all the while keeping a tight grip on your wallet.

    47. Re:crash faster by MikeS2k · · Score: 1

      I keep getting a weird issue where Windows will behave as if the CTRL key is stuck down on the keyboard, even when it isn't (and so trying to switch app in the taskbar just selects multiple). I get this on basically every computer I've used, so it can't be a hardware problem.
      Anyone else get this?

      --
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    48. Re:crash faster by jones_supa · · Score: 2

      Anyone who is still waiting for the "year of the Linux Desktop" will be waiting for a long time.

      I don't know about that, but Ubuntu has clearly not sang its last song. With smooth and nice Wayland coming, Steam for games and, the slick Unity interface (yes, I like it, especially when it runs faster now), there's interesting times ahead for desktop Linux too.

    49. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should have a look at univention.de. Its really an active directory implementation for linux on steroids.

    50. Re:crash faster by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      Windows 7 is nice. As usual, it has some questionable but not outright catastrophic UI design choices and some annoying but harmless quirks but it's vastly better than XP was. Then again it suffers from not being POSIX compliant (sure, Windows might have something similar to grep, sed or awk but having to relearn everything to cater to one specific OS vendor is somewhat wasteful when everyone else supports those tools).

      Of course it depends on what you do. I'm a web developer, so having a well-configured local server environment is paramount and XAMPP never meshed well with me. Between the platform-independent IDE, the platform-independent office suite and a bash with all the tools I need out of the box I really don't have anything on Windows that I particularly miss. Okay, IE for compatibility testing but you can always keep a Win box around or use a VM.


      As for bluescreens: I did get bluescreens that only occurred in Win 7 but I'm pretty certain that the computer had a subtly flaky mainbord.

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    51. Re:crash faster by Kokuyo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In a corporate environment? HELLO?! If your shop is so small, that you actually can look at the desktop environment without your networking, then it's not really a corporate environment.

      Yeah, your point may be factual and correct but in the real world, it's mighty useless...

    52. Re:crash faster by MurukeshM · · Score: 1

      BIOS screen doesn't prove anything.. I dual (quad?) boot with two instances of Ubuntu, one of Win7 and one of Win8. Usually, there's only one entry for both WIndows in GRUB, WIndows 8. Sometimes after selecting Win8 from GRUB, it goes directly to Windows 8 instead of waiting for the choice on 7/8, almost as if Windows 8 had slept/hibernated/resurrected. And in such instances I am invariably logged in. Has happened about 4 times so far. But no problems before or after booting.

    53. Re:crash faster by hairyfish · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Windows is only the "best" desktop environment for business purely because most business use MS Office. Those businesses that DON'T use MS Office (and there a a surprising number, which is increasing with each "improvement" in Office releases), funnily enough would say that Windows is NOT the "best" desktop environment for business.

      Crap. Window is the best because Microsoft offer a complete suite of products catered to integrating all the common back office functions. Directory, file, print, email, proxy, database, web and Office (and a whole bunch of other stuff too long to list here) all integrates seamlessly out of the box. I've seen plenty of MS haters attempt to replicate this functionality with a bunch of bespoke home brew 'free' solutions that are undocumented, unreliable and impossible for another employee to figure out what is going on.

    54. Re:crash faster by malkavian · · Score: 2

      Which goes back to it only being the best business desktop because most businesses use MS office (thus run windows, thus have the install base to maximise profit on a dev platform).
      In an ab-initio race with today's platforms, I think we'd see something like the home computer market in the 80s. Very diverse. Any evolutionaly system can achieve a false maxima, which is the niche that Windows occupies at the moment. It may not be the most effective tool to bring to bear in many situations these days, but it has the most momentum, so it gets used.

    55. Re:crash faster by Your+Average+Joe · · Score: 0

      your an idiot, just start buying software...

      We have Windows Server 2008 r2 and have license servers running on this VM. It bluescreens because DIGI international will not fix a 64 bit driver. So youes Windows still bluescreens and when it does and it is repeatable it takes a LONG time for these vendors to fix broken code, why prolly because they have some 14 year old boy in India doing the development because it costs less...

      --
      Your Average Joe
    56. Re:crash faster by dontclapthrowmoney · · Score: 1

      Question: do you like eating cupcakes while working?

      Alternatively, do any of your co-workers like to play practical jokes, and keep turning on one of the accessibility options like sticky keys? It may be possible to turn that on via policy, or remotely...

      Or maybe you're triggering one of the keyboard shortcuts but that isn't easy to do, like pressing the left shift key 5 times quickly and then not seeing the prompt.

    57. Re:crash faster by Quakeulf · · Score: 1

      I guess the drawcall for the material with the blue texture would be calculated fast enough with the additional GPU-power so perhaps in less than 0.01 seconds. This could mean a potential of 6000 blue screens per second.

    58. Re:crash faster by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1, Interesting

      It's surprising to me as well how long it's taken them to do this. Mac OS X has been using GPU acceleration (Quartz Extreme / Core Graphics) since 10.2 in 2002, and really ramped it up in subsequent releases with Core Image and QuartzGL.

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    59. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The guy that shown surface, also shown that it freezes faster than we could ever imagine. lol

    60. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As an OSX and iOS developer, I reluctantly agree with you. The good news is that tomorrow I'll get to agree with you a little less, and the day after, and so forth. It's no secret that MS has been in decline for a decade while other OSs have been on the rise. That trend will continue.

      For the last decade MS has been like the ex-track star from high school, now 50 lbs overweight and going through a mid-life crisis, huffing and puffing trying to catch up with the pack. Stop, MS, please! You're going to give yourself a heart attack!

    61. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Microsoft Office ran on Linux, why would a business ever have a need for Windows?

    62. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My only question is that if Win 8's uses the GPU to make things render faster, why is the default theme so ugly and look like it is something a circus would design?

    63. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My hacked XP PE has never crashed.

      Still running effortlessly, with a 700mb footprint.

      Have fun updating all your hardware to handle doing the same thing with MS' newest bloatware.

    64. Re:crash faster by Black+Parrot · · Score: 2, Insightful

      osx for estheticity
      linux for diversity
      windows for jobsecurity

      For me it's -

      Windows for games
      Linux for getting stuff done

      --
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    65. Re:crash faster by sumdumass · · Score: 2

      Ha.. that's a bit of a stretch. I turn roaming profiles off on a number of desktops and if the system hasn't been down for too long, windows will allow cached credentials to get you to a desktop as long as the last valid password is used. Well, at least XP will, we have application issues stopping a move to newer operating system at one of my sites. I have never tried to log on with vista or windows 7 with the AD down at my other sites. But you can get to a desktop without touching the network at a corporate site.

    66. Re:crash faster by flappinbooger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well then you can't blame the software for a hardware failure. I was running my original Windows 7 installation until a few days ago, when I decided to start fresh. 3 years without any significant problems, it's been the smoothest experience so far. I distinctly remember the day it launched, my coworkers asked about it, and they had to ask twice when they heard me speak the words "Windows 7 is fucking awesome". This, coming from a guy running a heavily-modified Gentoo-KDE workstation, bragging about 300-day uptime with XP relegated to a tiny VM on a side monitor.

      3 years later, well, I still think Windows 7 is great. Does what I expect from Windows, nothing more, nothing less. Runs fast, supports all my hardware, sleeps/resumes without a hitch, uptime is dependent on whether I care to install monthly updates. Pretty much my only gripe is I wish the default shell were Bash instead of CMD (and Cygwin still sucks).

      Wow, this is probably the first honest and thoughtful yet believable post I've seen on the tubes actually giving win7 the praise it deserves. I also was running xp at home and linux at work until win7 came out, and now I have it in both places. Just can't justify the "hassle" of setting up and configuring linux - which always takes a lot of time for *me* (maybe not a more leet haxxor) because win7 really does just work in a very non-annoying fashion.

      --
      Flappinbooger isn't my real name
    67. Re:crash faster by flappinbooger · · Score: 1

      I've seen three Windows 7 crashes - caused by overheating graphics cores, all on the same computer.

      I've never seen win7 crash except for my laptop - and it's BSOD'd maybe 4 times (maybe 5) in probably 3 years. I traced the problem to a buggy ATI graphics driver clashing with the AV which WAS on there at the time. It seems fine now, I just use MSSE because I run every browser in a sandbox and don't do stupid things.

      --
      Flappinbooger isn't my real name
    68. Re:crash faster by benjymouse · · Score: 1

      Many Windows crashes was caused by hardware acceleration. As a result Vista supported less hardware acceleration than XP.

      What? Vista came with Aero which is entirely *dependent* on HW acceleration. If your graphics card does not support HW acceleration, you could not run with aero.

      Also, Vista changed the graphics model from a redraw model to a composition model. The composition model is again mandatory hardware accelerated. If your card doesn't support graphics composition Windows falls back to the redraw model.

      What happened with Vista was that Microsoft split the graphics drivers so that the drivers had to come in two parts: a core part running in kernel mode and a user mode part which does most of the computations.

      So while you are somewhat correct that many Windows crashes was due to HW acceleration (actually, more generally dure to bad cards or drivers - not necessarily acceleration), the new driver model did not support *less* acceleration. It supported *more* acceleration (composing, aero glass etc) - only it moved it from kernel mode to user mode to increase reliability.

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    69. Re:crash faster by SenseiLeNoir · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I use Linux (fedora/ubuntu), OS X (personal rMBP), and Windows (7 64bit ultimate at home, 32bit professional at work).

      I have always wanted to "hate" windows, and "love" Linux, and in the past I have wanted to "love" mac os too.

      in the past I have had plenty of reasons to hate windows, but by XP sp3, it was less, thoguh now that I am on 7, i actually HATE xp.

      I was probably one of the few people that didn't hate Vista. Maybe because i used the 64bit version, I dont know, but it was stable if not particularly spectacular. It got the job done.

      Windows 7 is a phenomenon in comparison. Together with the SSD, it just worked. Being able to send movies to my TV with a right click on the file, and without installing anything. Windows 7 just works, and although i do have a dual boot Ubuntu partition on my computer, i rarely use it. My chief annoyance is its inability to read any file systems on USB Mass Storage other than FAT/FAT32, and is the real remaining evilness of MS (forcing manufacturers of devices such as cameras to support FAT and pay their "tax" to MS)

      OSX, is pretty, but not necessarily better than 7. It is not more easier either (keyboard shortcuts are more extreme). OSX is just different in my books. It too has some evilness such as the restriction on supporting TRIM only on Apple approved SSDs. It also has in some ways less application support (excluding BSD)

      Linux is the OS i prefer to use for development, and also servers. However, I still spend way too much time configuring it than I have time for. When I was younger, and have time, it was fun. These days, I am married, a professional, and simply don't have time.

      --
      Have a nice day!
    70. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This will not help laptop users looking for longer battery life. Many new laptops have two video cards and can switch on the fly. This will ensure that the most power hungry video card GPU is always on and chewing up battery.

    71. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Downvotes? This isn't Reddit, jackass. Go back there and have your fun.

    72. Re:crash faster by nschubach · · Score: 1

      I've had one blue screen with Windows 7. I was in a meeting with my laptop connected to a large display. We got off on a tangent talking about something and my laptop display went to sleep. I reached down and woke it up by swiping across the touchpad and it displayed a bluescreen then promptly rebooted.

      Every other time I've been pissed off by Windows was while playing a game (different machine) and alt-tabbing out or otherwise forcing the video sub-system to switch Aero off/on. In those cases I get no bluescreen. The computer just outright freezes up. This has happened much more often than the bluescreen I got in the meeting, but that's mainly because I spend most of my Windows 7 time as a Steam Kernel.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    73. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > For all the haters here on Slashdot, Windows is still by far the best desktop environment available for use in a business setting.

      You can get by with Windows _iff_ you`re a home user -- and not a very sophisticated one at that (if you can, get a Mac or use Linux: both are easier to use); Windows is not the best system for professional use IMHO (and I use both).

      At home, one can be excused to use Windows if bowing to support considerations (not everyone has a relative who knows Linux like mine do) or practical reasons (it`s easier to find Windows PCs at physical stores). OTOH, businesses often must set up their own IT internal support, thereby rendering Windows and Linux absolutely on equal footing regarding support for lay users.

      Therefore, one will be able to compare both OSes on their technical merits. After a short consideration, is easy to note:
      - Linux is better at ease of use (cannot prove it here, don't just doubt it... test it!);
      - Linux has better software applications;
      - Linux enables faster and inexpensive business-wide homogenous upgrades;
      - Linux leads to less security headaches;
      - Linux has out-of-box hardware compatibility instead of needing daily installations of printer drivers (absurd as it is, that's what I see with Windows);
      - and a lot more reasons.

      Claiming Windows is better for business is pure (bad) marketing talk, IMHO. Using Windows only reveals the high management doesn't grasp the importance of IT as a strategic tool.

      Everybody loses then -- and users primarily.

      Don`t trust this limited post; go out and do a test, even if just at home, preferably with the support of someone who already knows Linux. The difference is quite obvious.

    74. Re:crash faster by Windwraith · · Score: 1

      >Well then you can't blame the software for a hardware failure.

      I think that was the point of his post.

    75. Re:crash faster by synapse7 · · Score: 1

      Sure you haven't seen a crash since XP, was that when you began your consultant position?

    76. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's by design! Fail fast, fail often.

    77. Re:crash faster by marcello_dl · · Score: 1

      To counter your luck with windows: my acer aspire one with the amd APU 50 with win7 crashed during the first boot ever, while on the "god knows what it's doing" configuration/registration/whatever thing.

      The hardware is not at fault having worked reliably under linux for one year, even if the support of the hardware is not fully functional.

      Now, a preinstalled OS that crashes during the post-pre-installation phase is something you should find on a comic strip, not IRL.

      What about a win7 desktop that transfers to the same USB3 disk data in a FAT partition at 20 mb/s less speed than it does when the partition is reformatted to NTFS, in the same session? What about all the win desktops that cease network operation because of a misconfigured router that shouldn't act as DNS server, while the linux workstations on the same network continue to hum along happily?

      Anyway all of this is irrelevant. Those who understand the importance of using an OS which stays out of the way instead of being a tool that a corporation employs to make more profit take the time to try alternatives. Those who don't will be stuck in the 3 years upgrade cycle for their basic office automation needs and think it's normal.

      --
      ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
    78. Re:crash faster by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Windows 8 should scare you a little. If you look at Microsoft's history, they have a pattern of in-between favorite releases being more of a testbed then a release.

      If we start with windows 95, we get windows 98 which they fixed half way through with windows 98 second edition which was pretty stable by the time windows ME came out. Windows Me either rocked for you or it sucked donkey balls. If it worked, it worked well, if it didn't, it hardly ever did. Then came XP which by all accounts was a world of improvement over windows ME and stability once again resumed. We then got the testbed for windows7 which was windows vista. Vista is comparable to windows ME in that it seemed to try but wasn't the little engine that could. Now we have windows 7 which once you get used to the UI differences from XP, is once again the solid result of the previous operating system or beta version.

      It actually goes back a little further then win9x. As a user who has had experience with working on and fixing MS based systems since DOS 4.01(a), and later windows, I will gladly wait for windows 9 or at least a service pack or two for windows 8 before trying to be productive with it. windows 8 should be the testing platform if MS maintains its trend.

      Of course you could always go here and play with the windows really good edition.

    79. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows has had GPU accel since vista.. but only certain elements were composited, similar to OSX

      In Windows 8, *everything* is composited..

    80. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows 7 is very stable. But where is this logic jump that it makes the best business desktop? They are two Different discussions.

    81. Re:crash faster by Muramas95 · · Score: 0

      most of the issues are hardware issues, Win 7 is pretty stable.

    82. Re:crash faster by NJRoadfan · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Linux might.... about 12 years ago I had an old 486 running Redhat as a router. I did something stupid like put the cover back on the computer case while it was running. About a half hour later the internet stopped working. I go to the server and look at the console. I must have knocked the IDE cable out of the hard drive because the screen was filled with messages like "write failed", then a big HALT "out of memory" error. When the hard drive was unplugged, the OS kept pending HD writes in memory (logs, etc.) until it ran out of RAM. The rest of the system functions (NAT routing) kept on chugging along until then!

    83. Re:crash faster by hawkinspeter · · Score: 1

      How cross platform is it? Will Powershell scripts work equally on 64bit Windows 7 as on 32bit XP?

      --
      You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
    84. Re:crash faster by Mexifries · · Score: 0

      These days, I am married...

      I call bullshit.

    85. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I read that a lot here. What exactly does "getting stuff done" entail? I get stuff done all day long on my Windows 7 notebook.

    86. Re:crash faster by St.Creed · · Score: 1

      From the wikipedia (hard to find, I know :P):

      "Version 1.0 was released in 2006 for Windows XP SP2/SP3, Windows Server 2003, and Windows Vista. For Windows Server 2008, it is included as an optional feature.

      Version 2.0 is integrated with Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2 and is released for Windows XP with Service Pack 3, Windows Server 2003 with Service Pack 2 and Windows Vista with Service Pack 1.[29]"

      See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_PowerShell for more info.

      --
      Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
    87. Re:crash faster by sgtwilko · · Score: 1

      I had a smoothwall box where the hard disk failed and we didn't notice for 6 months.

      I got suspicious when PFY informed me that there hadn't been any updates for it in about 9 month, I checked the website and the other smoothwall box and found a few updates released in that time. Turns out it tried to download the list of available updates to the hard disk and then checked those against the list of updates installed. As it couldn't save the list it found nothing to install!

      As it loaded all software into RAM upon boot, and the logging was buffered in memory (and we hadn't needed to check it as it was a backup anyway) everything just kept on running (Firewall rules, VPNs, everything, it just kept on running) until the PFY rebooted it and found it woudn't boot.

      SgtWilko.

    88. Re:crash faster by hawkinspeter · · Score: 1

      Sorry if I'm being obtuse, but does that mean that scripts written for version 1 will run on version 2 and vice versa? Is version 2 a superset of version 1, so that it's possible to write scripts in a portable fashion?

      --
      You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
    89. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's surprising to me as well how long it's taken them to do this. Mac OS X has been using GPU acceleration (Quartz Extreme / Core Graphics) since 10.2 in 2002, and really ramped it up in subsequent releases with Core Image and QuartzGL.

      Windows has been using GPU accelleration since Windows XP in 2001, and really ramped it up in subsequent releases.

    90. Re:crash faster by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative

      OS X does not use the GPU for font rendering. It renders each character to a texture on the CPU and just composites on the GPU. This was added with Quartz Extreme. X11 also does the same thing via the XRENDER extension, and so does Vista via Direct2D stuff. The MSR paper that I am referring to described how to store the bezier control points on the GPU and then construct the glyph with pixel shaders.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    91. Re:crash faster by Rei · · Score: 1

      My windows toaster is hardware accelerated. :) Unfortunately, it tends to overheat.

      --
      "99 dead duelists of Dios on the wall. 99 dead duelists of Dios! Take one's ring, pass it around..."
    92. Re:crash faster by hawkinspeter · · Score: 2

      As an example, how would you do the following in PowerShell: Read a file of text, determine the n most frequently used words, and print out a sorted list of those words along with their frequencies.

      Here's the classic Bash answer:

      tr -cs A-Za-z '\n' | tr A-Z a-z | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn | sed ${1}q

      --
      You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
    93. Re:crash faster by armv7 · · Score: 1

      you know what QNX is?

    94. Re:crash faster by ilsaloving · · Score: 3, Funny

      No kidding! If the drivers have drivers, then thats an extra layer of protection.

    95. Re:crash faster by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      It's written as a bifurcated choice. He said it, just not with text.

    96. Re:crash faster by Xiaran · · Score: 1

      In QNX there are several "supervisor" drivers that other drivers talk to via messaging(a special kind of memory messaging". I used to write drivers for QNX2 and 4... if one of my drivers crashed from say a null reference it would just crash and I could restart it. Also drivers generally didn't run in ring 0... I think on 386 arch it was ring 2 or 3... which meant I coudl also run drivers in the standard debugger.

    97. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One shill verifying another? It must be legit!

    98. Re:crash faster by PortHaven · · Score: 2

      Wait...you're running an unreleased version of software and complaining it crashed...

      Well that's what a BETA/RC is supposed to do. Crash. If it didn't, than it would be a release version. ;-)

    99. Re:crash faster by PortHaven · · Score: 1

      I will grant you that Skype does in fact have a memory leak that will eventually require a reboot as it slows the system dramatically. But it's never blue screened me....

    100. Re:crash faster by Nick+Number · · Score: 1

      My windows toaster is hardware accelerated. :) Unfortunately, it tends to overheat.

      I bet it's that damn FireWire.

      --
      Promote proofreading. Don't mod up sloppy posts.
    101. Re:crash faster by Johnny+Loves+Linux · · Score: 1

      I respectfully disagree that Windows is the best. It's always been my experience that Windows is nothing more than a trap to lock people into Microsoft products, products designed as much as possible to not be compatible with open standards. I don't know what your experience with Linux has been, but my experience has been that configuring and installing "Office" products is trivially easy with any Debian based distro, or even RedHat. If you've seen people attempting to replicate Microsoft products using "home brew 'free' solutions that are undocumented, unreliable and impossible for another employee to figure out what is going on" then I would have to guess those people are new to linux and don't realize that almost every Linux distro comes with a package manager, a package manager that can install free and open standard office automation software that's been available for years. I would encourage you to tell your friends to read up on Ubuntu or Linux Mint and give either either one a shot and especially practice using their package managers to see how easy it is to install software. It's really amazing how much software comes prepackaged in Debian based Linux distros.

    102. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you really that dense? Perhaps you should re-read the post.

    103. Re:crash faster by anss123 · · Score: 1

      I was thinking on the GDI part of Windows, it is software rendered on Vista. Some applications ran quite badly because of this.

      If you wrote WPF or DirectX apps on Vista you got hardware acceleration, but 6 years later and most stuff is stilling using GDI instead.

      Looking at the article they're talking about improving Direct2D and SVG performance, which is something apps are starting to use I believe.

    104. Re:crash faster by benjymouse · · Score: 1

      I was thinking on the GDI part of Windows, it is software rendered on Vista. Some applications ran quite badly because of this.

      But GDI was never hw accelerated on XP. So there was no hw acceleration removed in Vista, as you claimed:

      As a result Vista supported less hardware acceleration than XP

      Indeed, Vista did come with GDI+ which *introduced* some hw acceleration into the old GDI.

      --
      Reading slashdot one-liner: (irm http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdot).rdf.item | fl title,desc*
    105. Re:crash faster by Gwala · · Score: 1

      Yes - it's basically just compiling small .NET programs from your input -- which tend to be pretty portable. You should only run into problems if you use new features that aren't available in older environments (but - I'm pretty sure the latest version of .NET can be installed on XP, so that might be a moot point.)

      --
      #!/bin/csh cat $0
    106. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No offense but if you already paid for windows how is it so difficult to get stuff "done".

    107. Re:crash faster by davidbrit2 · · Score: 1

      You're just piping a bunch of programs together. I imagine you could do it the same way with the standard Windows command shell, as long as you have those programs installed.

    108. Re:crash faster by StuartHankins · · Score: 1

      Why are you deciding "to start fresh" after only "3 years without any significant problems" if it's "the smoothest experience so far"? What keeps you from wanting to continue using it as-is?

    109. Re:crash faster by godefroi · · Score: 1

      It runs on the 2.0 framework, so you don't need the latest version of .NET.

      --
      Karma: Poor (Mostly affected by lame karma-joke sigs)
    110. Re:crash faster by hawkinspeter · · Score: 1

      Does Windows have the equivalent programs installed? Or alternatively, is there a more Windows-centric way to achieve the same result?

      --
      You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
    111. Re:crash faster by amliebsch · · Score: 1

      [string]::join(" ",(get-content file.txt)) -replace "[^[a-z]"," " -split " " | group-object | sort-object -desc Count

      --
      If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
    112. Re:crash faster by SpooForBrains · · Score: 1

      PowerShell is a definite improvement but it's still wrapped in the same functionally crippled terminal window they've been using for years. I haven't yet found a better alternative - if anyone knows about one I'd be grateful.

      --
      "The dew has clearly fallen with a particularly sickening thud this morning"
    113. Re:crash faster by godefroi · · Score: 1

      That's not the Bash answer, that's the GNU textutils answer. Since you asked, however, I'll give you the PowerShell answer:

      get-content .\datasheet_text.txt | foreach-object { $_ -replace '[^a-zA-Z ]', '' } | foreach-object { -split $_ } | group-object | sort-object count -desc | select-object -first 10

      That is, of course, quite verbose, and dangerously understandable by coworkers. In the real world, you'd want to do it like this:

      gc .\datasheet_text.txt | % { -split ($_ -replace '[^a-zA-Z ]', '') } | group | sort count -des | select -f 10

      No programs other than PowerShell are involved here. No external processes are being started. If that was still too much typing, you could alias some of the cmdlets to shorter names.

      --
      Karma: Poor (Mostly affected by lame karma-joke sigs)
    114. Re:crash faster by davidbrit2 · · Score: 1

      Not by default. There may be equivalents for some, but personally I just have them all installed to C:\bin.

    115. Re:crash faster by godefroi · · Score: 2

      Your video card's driver sucks. Install a working version, or switch to a company that provides working drivers (haha, as if that existed...)

      --
      Karma: Poor (Mostly affected by lame karma-joke sigs)
    116. Re:crash faster by anss123 · · Score: 1

      GDI has been hw accelerated since Windows 3.1. There was a time they even benchmarked graphics card on how quickly they accelerated windows drawing calls.

      GDI+ introduced different text rendering and alpha colors, but you don't get anymore hardware acceleration in GDI from GDI+.

      From Wikipedia's GDI article on Vista: "GDI is no longer hardware-accelerated by the video card driver"

    117. Re:crash faster by nschubach · · Score: 1

      Two different cards from different manufacturers. (AMD and nVidia)

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    118. Re:crash faster by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      Something like:
      [regex]::split([io.file]::readAllText($fileName).ToLower(),’\W+’) | group -NoElement | sort count -desc | select -first 6

    119. Re:crash faster by Jurily · · Score: 1

      For power users, Windows simply cannot match the ease of use of a command line that can do literally everything. For example, I switch between three sets of screen resolutions and layouts with shell scripts. Also, KDevelop4.

    120. Re:crash faster by Black+Parrot · · Score: 2

      I read that a lot here. What exactly does "getting stuff done" entail? I get stuff done all day long on my Windows 7 notebook.

      I suspect that there are tools for Windows, but I don't know what they are, and I don't care to pay for them.

      I've got 16 desktops (only 8 in use right now) with 1-4 terminals open on each, plus other software for those tasks that need graphics or sound. 301 active processes (ps uax|wc -l), machine using 2% CPU.

      Unfortunately I can't keep everything open on the various desktops like want it for six months at a time anymore, due to the frequent kernel updates.

      Windows has a lot of annoyances for someone who has been using Linux for a long time. No swipe-to-select, click to paste. GUIs require you to click on the text rather than on the button or line that the text is on. Applications serve as their own window managers, so you can't do anything with the window if the application is misbehaving. Everything you do requires confirmation. If you want to work with something in another directory, you have to click around in an explorer rather than just use a relative path with tab completion. Mouse wheel has to be explicitly told what to scroll. (On Linux I often use it to scroll things in windows that aren't even active.) Etc. etc. etc.

      Plus if you want to use grep, sed, pipes, etc., you have to install software that turns your Windows box into a host for a Linux environment. Why bother?

      I'm sure Windows developers have their own work habits, but these suit mine.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    121. Re:crash faster by qu33ksilver · · Score: 1

      Read a file of text, determine the n most frequently used words, and print out a sorted list of those words along with their frequencies.

      You are just citing a very common question asked in universities. But come to think of it, is determining n most frequent words a part of your daily job. Anyway, I never said that powershell was better than bash. If you see the quoted text, the context was bash vs cmd., I just made it to bash vs powershell.
      And for your answer, here you go -
      Get-Content file.text | Group | Sort | ft name,count -Autosize
      Now you see the coolness of it ? ;)

    122. Re:crash faster by godefroi · · Score: 1

      Like I said... there are no companies producing video cards today with stable, quality drivers.

      --
      Karma: Poor (Mostly affected by lame karma-joke sigs)
    123. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That wasn't because Linux was designed to be especially robust, it's because its philosophy is "Fatal errors? Just ignore them! doo doo doo. nobody needs this data"

      Note modern Linux is a good deal better about this type of thing and you probably would have had an immediate panic.

    124. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Install PowerShell and make it your default. It blows away Bash, etc.

    125. Re:crash faster by benjymouse · · Score: 1

      GDI has been hw accelerated since Windows 3.1. There was a time they even benchmarked graphics card on how quickly they accelerated windows drawing calls.
       

      I stand corrected then. However, the software rendering was done because of the introduction of the composition engine (applications writing into a memory buffer representing the Windows which is then composed by the driver rather than each app being asked to redraw itself in reverse Z-order) - not because hw acceleration was making it unstable.

      --
      Reading slashdot one-liner: (irm http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdot).rdf.item | fl title,desc*
    126. Re:crash faster by Wolfrider · · Score: 2

      --Ever heard of 4DOS? They updated the product for Windows as a CMD replacement:

      http://jpsoft.com/index.php

      I use the free version, but I'm really happy with it. I'm more of a Linux guy these days, or I would prolly pay for the full version.

      --
      .
      == WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
    127. Re:crash faster by hawkinspeter · · Score: 1

      From this and the other replies, it (PowerShell) certainly looks quite capable and I'm impressed enough to go and learn something about it (I don't usually admin Windows, but when I do I can maybe start using PowerShell)

      You're right about it being a common academic question and I've never had to do that, but I've done similar text manipulation pipelines to convert MYSQL dumps into Oracle sql statements. Real world tasks are usually more difficult to describe, so I just looked for the classic Knuth/McIlroy word count.

      --
      You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
    128. Re:crash faster by mooingyak · · Score: 1

      I read that a lot here. What exactly does "getting stuff done" entail? I get stuff done all day long on my Windows 7 notebook.

      I'll bite.

      It obviously varies per user, but I'm in the same category as the poster you responded to.

      All the servers I do dev work for are running FreeBSD. I'm a creature of the command line, I think in pipelines sometimes. I manipulate very large text files. Doing this in Windows is certainly possible; I did it for several years at my current position. But last time I was due for a machine upgrade, I decided to install Linux instead. Once I got through the initial adjustment I found it much easier to do development locally. YMMV, if Windows is a better work environment for you then by all means continue to use it.

      --
      William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
    129. Re:crash faster by LMahesa · · Score: 0

      Would a big contributor to that stability be the fact that those machines were running standardized HP/Compaq/Dell clones that had ultra-safe 'enterprise' components? Remember that Microsoft's first, and, essentially, only, client is the corporate client, not home users, so it's no big surprise you'll get ultra reliability under those circumstances. Microsoft listens to home users of Windows the same way that Apple listens to users of iTunes for Windows.

      --
      Look, no SIG!
    130. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what you're saying is that Microsoft products integrate with themselves. Everyone's products do that.

      Try integrating Microsoft applications with those of another vendor. The problem generally doesn't come from the more flexible, standards compliant, product of the other vendor.

    131. Re:crash faster by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

      Plus if you want to use grep, sed, pipes, etc., you have to install software that turns your Windows box into a host for a Linux environment. Why bother?

      And I actually use that stuff, frequently. Here's an example of what's in one terminal right now, slightly censored:

      Some of it won't make sense (such as sequential commits), because you can't see what I did in other windows or the editor. (The ampersand means it pops up and operates independently of the terminal that I launched it from.)

      You also can't see command-line recalls and tab completions (much of the example didn't actually have to be typed), command-line edits with ^a, ^e, ^w etc., and the stuff I did in the other terminals.

      Comments added for this post. Many occurences of the "something" censoring are different but not distinguished here.

      (Started by clicking the panel for a terminal, then did this in it:)

      4581 pushd controlled/something/something/something/
      4582 ~/make-xterms-1600 ### Shell script creates three more windows on the same desktop, with distinct names and the same present working directory.
      4583 emacs to-do.txt &
      4584 svn commit -m "More updates to something."
      4585 svn commit -m "More updates to something and something."
      4586 grep itemsep *.tex
      4587 grep -B5 -A5 itemsep *.tex
      4588 ~/bin/something --something something.tex|more
      4589 svn commit -m "Polish-up on something."
      4590 ~/bin/something --something something1.tex
      4591 ~/bin/something --something something2.tex
      4592 ~/bin/something --something something3.tex
      4593 ~/bin/something --something something4.tex
      4594 ~/bin/something --something something5.tex
      4595 more something.tex
      4596 A ### fatfinger
      4597 ~/bin/something --something something5.tex
      4598 emacs something.tex &
      4599 make something ### I use makefiles to build my LaTeX documents.
      4600 ~/bin/something --something something.tex
      4601 make something
      4602 emacs something.tex &
      4603 make something
      4604 ls -1 *.tex
      4605 make something
      4606 emacs something.tex &
      4607 svn commit -m "More tweaks to various parts."
      4608 ~/bin/something --something something.tex
      4609 history|grep pdftk ### looking for a command that I can't remember the syntax for, but used earlier
      4610 pdftk something.pdf cat 16-17 output something1.pdf
      4611 evince something1.pdf
      4612 evince something2.pdf
      4613 pdftk something.pdf cat 1-15 output something2.pdf
      4614 svn commit -m "Final tweaks to something."
      4615 ls ~/*something
      4616 ls ~/
      4617 ls /home
      4618 mv ~/something something.pdf
      4619 eog something.pdf ### oops
      4620 evince something.pdf ### that's better!
      4621 svn commit -m "Added the something of the entire something."
      4622 dirs
      4623 pushd ../something/
      4624 emacs something.tex &
      4625 make something
      4626 svn commit -m "Updated notes w.r.t. new something."
      4627 ls ..
      4628 pushd ../someth ### pressed return without intended tab completion
      4629 pushd ../something/ ### that's better!
      4630 ls ~/Desktop/
      4631 ls
      4632 make something
      4633 evince ~/Desktop/something ### web app stored a PDF on my desktop, without .pdf extension
      4634 ls ../something1/ ### looking for what I renamed it to on another project...
      4635 ls ../something2/ ### or was it this project...
      4636 mv ~/Desktop/something som

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    132. Re:crash faster by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Is that Windows fault?

      Probably not.

      I have seen Linux Crash a lot more then Windows. Mostly because Linux has poor drivers. Vista had bad drivers too, and we laugh and said how inept Microsoft is. However with Linux having a poor set of drivers, we go an blame the driver maker, or the manufacture for not agreeing 100% with RMS view of software.

      I agree with the Grandparent here. Ever sense XP SP3 Windows has ran very solid, except for understandable coinsurance, of failing hardware.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    133. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Aye, Microsoft apps integrate wonderfully with other Microsoft apps. Too bad that those of us in the real world have hundreds of apps made by other developers that Microsoft is trying to put out of business by purposefully kneecapping compatibility.

    134. Re:crash faster by Sir_Sri · · Score: 1

      how inept Microsoft is

      MS changed the driver model with windows vista. With linux the driver model has been the same for quite some time and developers have had time to learn to use it. For vista it was half MS not doing as good a job as it could have explaining how to write drivers, and half companies not giving a shit because Vista was terrible.

    135. Re:crash faster by Sir_Sri · · Score: 1

      And why do you give a shit about hardware acceleration on a desktop computer in business? Do your Office fonts not load up fast enough? Is that 336% faster going to help you? From my experience, the only thing that matters for speed in business settings is antiquated hardware, database settings, and network speeds.

      Well this has been microsofts great conundrum for a decade. Windows XP works, so what can they offer that is actually an improvement. Given that every computer sold will have a kind of decent on chip GPU at a minimum you may as well use that, but sure, the difference between wasting 3 seconds and 10 seconds isn't going to hugely improve office productivity.

      I think though, it's just one of those things that will reduce the frustration of users. Some of it is 'why not, you have the hardware you may as well use it' and some of it is 'the quicker this task the less likely it is that the employee with tab over to /. and spend 15 minutes goofing off while waiting for a 10 second load screen'.

    136. Re:crash faster by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      I don't know about that, but {$currentpopularlinuxdistro} has clearly not sang its last song. With smooth and nice {$currentversion.next}, {$app.next} and, the {$feature.next}, there's interesting times ahead for desktop Linux too.

      Fixed that for you so you can reuse it for the next 10 years.

    137. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've seen three Windows 7 crashes - caused by overheating graphics cores, all on the same computer.

      Are you saying other operating systems won't crash when the hardware is running outside it's normal specifications? Shoot, how do I install Linux on that computer with a molten slag of silicon as it's CPU and the bullet hole through the hard drive?

      There's a lot to not like about Windows, lack of stability just isn't one of them anymore. It's a bit like saying my car crashes after I cut my brake lines.

    138. Re:crash faster by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      DIGI international, is that the same company that used to make the Digiboard multiport serial boards? Probably. They had some very nice hardware, but their software drivers were always pretty buggy. I remember having to dig into their binaries and patch their software, or working around certain calls to avoid the buggy functions.

      Not glad to see things haven't changed in the past 15 years. How are they still around???

    139. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, cygwin is GREAT nowadays. It finally has full utf-8 support, comes with a native tty (mintty) and basically everything just works the way it's supposed to. Maybe you should take a second look.

    140. Re:crash faster by cplusplus · · Score: 1

      What? Are you sure you've used PowerShell? PowerShell scripting gives you access to pretty much all the .NET framework libraries, and all the usual programming concepts that you'd want in any useful language. It's f'ing awesome, actually. There are a number of good tutorials and webcasts available via MSDN.

      --
      "False hope is why we'll never run out of natural resources!" - Lewis Black
    141. Re:crash faster by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      anss123 is correct, there were some GDI functions that were hardware accelerated in XP, most notably BitBlt, but there were some others. Vista created a new model, but it required that GDI be rendered to both system and video memory (Where XP rendered directly to video memory or frame buffer) and even BitBlt was software rendered. Windows 7 when coupled with a WDDM 1.1 video driver no longer requires GDI to be rendered in 2 places, and re-enables hardware acceleration on many GDI functions.

      http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ff729480(v=vs.85).aspx

    142. Re:crash faster by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      I found Windows 7 to be faster on older hardware than it's previous version (Vista), does that not count?

      Going back a long ways, Windows for Workgroups was faster than Windows 3.1.

    143. Re:crash faster by RalphTheWonderLlama · · Score: 1

      I don't usually admin Windows, but when I do I use DosEquisShell.

      --
      simple, fast homepage with your links: http://www.ngumbi.com/
    144. Re:crash faster by RalphTheWonderLlama · · Score: 1

      I just realized I've had zero blue screens with Windows 7 and I've been using it hard since the free RC2 or whatever it was (2 home computers, and a work computer I built). I am pleasantly surprised. Usually I have a little adjusting to do for something like that but with 7 everything was better and I knew it right away so I got over the change pretty fast and enjoyed it.

      I'd probably be using Linux though if it weren't for gaming at home and a few things at work.

      --
      simple, fast homepage with your links: http://www.ngumbi.com/
    145. Re:crash faster by partofthepuzzle · · Score: 1

      I know this is off topic but I think it's important:

      I fix malware infected PCs for a living. Every Windows user should be aware that in the last 4 weeks or so I have seen what I believe is the beginning of a new pandemic of malware infections. Unfortunately, the anti-virus companies still haven't agreed on a common naming process. Microsoft Security Essentials is calling it Trojan:Win32/Sirefef.AC (or AH or C, etc.). AVG is calling it Dropper.Generic_C.MMI. This is a rootkit and multi-virus type infection and in many cases it is so difficult to remove that for the AH variant, Microsoft doesn't even offer removal instructions and recommends reformatting and re-installing Windows. All of the systems that I have cleaned have become infected via web site "drive-by": simply visiting infected web sites.

      Most of these infections are taking over the Services.exe file. I also strongly suggest using a Repair Disk or DART and learning how to use the SFC command line utility. Booting off of CD/DVD, deleting the infected Services.exe and running SFC, which will scan all of the Windows system files and fix or replace them, including Services.exe. You can also delete other infect files from the command line. Then you can at least have a somewhat clean boot into Windows and run a tool like Hitman Pro to finish the job.

      A Google search for those virus names will show the huge number of threads on the malware help sites and note how recent the dates are. I think we'll be hearing about this in the news very soon.

    146. Re:crash faster by billcopc · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I cut my teeth on Irix back in the 90's, so on my DOS machines, I had an extensive set of Pascal and C utilities to replicate some of that Unix functionality. Perl and PHP have replaced many of those old scraps, but I think part of the problem is that I'm a classic programmer. I expect the shell to handle the occasional loop or conditional statement with some degree of nimbleness, particularly when managing directories. In my mind, it's a half-step down from proper scripting.

      Powershell to me feels nonsensical. I like the concept on paper, but it becomes far too verbose to do even basic things like launching Explorer on a folder. I think of it more as a weird GUI-less VB.Net dialect than a proper shell. If I wanted to write proper code, I'd fire up MSVC and go to town...

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    147. Re:crash faster by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      I bet it also crashes much much faster!!

      AC might have been trolling, but it's correct. If there's a bug in the gpu driver (if?), applications which use the gpu will crash semi-randomly.

    148. Re:crash faster by billcopc · · Score: 1

      This thing looks really interesting. I'll give it a try later, thanks for the rec!

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    149. Re:crash faster by billcopc · · Score: 1

      That's the problem: it's too much .Net at the expense of basic functionality. Sure, it can do just about anything, but for everyday file-based sysadmin tasks, I find the syntax way too verbose. It certainly has its purpose, but it is too codey for what I have in mind. As a programmer, if I want .Net, I'm quite happy to fire up MSVC and write a proper app. I just need a simple, fast, scriptable shell for the basic stuff.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    150. Re:crash faster by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      I also strongly suggest using a Repair Disk or DART and learning how to use the SFC command line utility. Booting off of CD/DVD, deleting the infected Services.exe and running SFC, which will scan all of the Windows system files and fix or replace them, including Services.exe. You can also delete other infect files from the command line. Then you can at least have a somewhat clean boot into Windows and run a tool like Hitman Pro to finish the job.

      Just spend $50 on a new HDD and reinstall the OS. Safer, faster, less costly. And your data survives on the original disk.

    151. Re:crash faster by flirno · · Score: 1

      had a couple black screens due to very poorly written graphics drivers in a game but outside of that no troubles in windows 7.

    152. Re:crash faster by billcopc · · Score: 1

      I get stuff done on all three platforms, but these days Windows is where I feel the most productive. Years ago I was all about KDE 3.5, but then KDE 4 made me want to strangle puppies. The Mac is still new to me after a year, and it seems I spend more time mousing than typing, thanks to some serious deficiencies in the keyboard shortcut department.

      Windows by itself is pretty useless, but it has some very mature applications the other platforms lack. For example, I've been using the same FTP client for 14 years. It is still updated with subtle but useful features, without ever disrupting my workflow. It isn't free, but for my uses it runs circles around Filezilla. On the Mac, it's even worse with Cyberduck, that thing behaves so mysteriously that I'd rather copy files to my Fusion VM and FTP via Windows.

      Linux runs on every other machine I own, except for the one vCenter host, and I regularly berate VMware for that irksome requirement. The problem with Linux, is that I only use it for network admin stuff anymore. KDE is dead to me, Gnome was never a contender, and I occasionally run Fluxbox over VNC for those rare tasks that require X or a Java GUI.

      I hate to say it, but for most of my work, Windows is where it's at. It's far from perfect, but it seems every other platform does it even worse.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    153. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I haven't seen a Windows system totally crash since XP and even then rarely saw any crashes after SP3.

      Off course not. It's not that it is more stable. The standard behavior now is to do what seems like a random reboot. Very few people could make any sense of what blue screens said, and everything you do is logged anyway.

      (feel free to make a car analogy)

    154. Re:crash faster by billcopc · · Score: 1

      Agree 100%, I'm in a very similar situation. I picked up a Macbook Pro last year, because my boss needed me to write iPhone apps. I absolutely love the hardware, but hate Mac OS, because it hates the keyboard. Sure, the fancy touchpad is quite hip and responsive, but it's still slower to swipe and drag and tap, than it is to instinctively hit three keys in the middle of a furious typing marathon. It is indeed pretty, but that's all it is: a thin veneer covering up some seriously fucked up code. When it does break, oh man, I'm far from any help. The Apple forums are utterly useless, and the OS itself is incredibly bad at telling me what is actually broken. Sometimes the system log nudges me in the right direction, but it is obvious that nobody spends any significant time in there, because the messages are ambiguous and often misleading.

      That said, I've taken a liking to Objective C. It, too, is a bit sloppy under the hood, but for developing GUI apps I think its object/message model makes my life a lot easier than C++ or .Net. It is an order of magnitude less frustrating than writing X apps, that's for sure.

      I do miss my lovingly-tuned Gentoo/KDE3 setup, which ran on my old workstation and laptop, but like you, I no longer have the time nor patience to make alternative desktops not suck. I must have spent close to 100 hours tweaking that distro just the way I wanted it, with my own overlay patches and everything. Today, I consider my time far more valuable and would rather spend 2 hours getting Windows 80% of the way there, with the remaining 98 hours logged as billable, or doing other things. Hacking is still fun, but I guess I've grown out of the obsessive vanity that is a Linux desktop.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    155. Re:crash faster by billcopc · · Score: 1

      I don't like WAMP stacks either, and I used to do exactly what you do, a Linux host with Windows in a small VM, but in recent years I've reversed that arrangement. I run Win7, with a bunch of Linux VMs to handle all my dev needs. The main benefits are that I can accurately replicate the live environment, and the VMs are portable. I can even copy the whole thing to my Macbook and go "work" on a sunny patio. If I'm really lazy (read: efficient), I can clone that same VM to the ESXi host and flip it live.

      One key motivator is that I was never really happy with any Linux IDE. I take on lots of odd freelancing jobs, so I often wind up working with very messy setups like direct FTP edits or SFTP as root (!). Working within clients' budgets means I don't always have the luxury of fixing those messes, sometimes you just have to tiptoe around the filth, do your thing, get paid and get the fuck out. I don't need nor want an IDE dictating my workflow in those situations, often resorting to Textmate(Mac) or even plain old FlashFXP and Notepad2 on Windows.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    156. Re:crash faster by billcopc · · Score: 1

      They all suck. AMD, Nvidia, Matrox, Intel... the only stable display drivers are the VMware emulated ones.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    157. Re:crash faster by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      If a driver crashed or a piece of hardware malfunctioned it should be possible to kill and restart the driver without crashing or locking up the operating system. X86 has all those ring levels how about actually using them? Not that this is a problem exclusive to Windows but OSes still are not resilient enough.

    158. Re:crash faster by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      Actually ever since MS decided backwards compatibility is not very important the chances for Linux or any other alternative desktop OS taking over keep increasing. Not to mention the threat to MS from the smartphone and tablet OSes which will eventually filter to the desktop.

    159. Re:crash faster by 0ld_d0g · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure Vista shipped with XPDM support, so in theory you could install XP drivers (video) on Vista. In addition I think Vista also shipped with a software rasterizer to avoid the driver clusterfuck altogether. I agree with Vista being a bitch, but like you have to do with any Microsoft product.. install their OS after the first service pack or so.

    160. Re:crash faster by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      They fixed that ever since NT came out. Windows 2000 was the first useable desktop NT OS they made. The only way Windows can crash today is if you have a buggy device driver. I still remember having to reboot every 30 minutes in Windows 9x when doing video editing. After I switched to Windows 2000 the crashes stopped and if the video editing program had a bug at least only the program crashed not the entire OS.

    161. Re:crash faster by Tastecicles · · Score: 1

      hm... for me it's:

      Windows 7 for hosting:
      Several Linux and an OSX86 virtual machines, most of them farming out to thin clients on my LAN (this laptop has that much juice it's silly), and pumping video to a 19" panel

      Linux for getting real work done

      through the same laptop via a USB composite capture card, XBOX for games, VCR for analogue ripping.

      --
      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    162. Re:crash faster by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      That is probably their accursed accessibility misfeature "Sticky Keys". They should have learned by now that the user should enable that in the configuration panel. As it is today if I snooze on the keyboard I enable that crap.

    163. Re:crash faster by Tastecicles · · Score: 1

      ah, Vista... the ME of NT.

      I never got on with Vista, at all. I avoided it like the plague after wrestling with one install, which I eventually gave up on and threw XP on instead.

      I didn't say the crashes were Windows' fault, I did say that it was down to an overheating graphics core... which is now solved, the laptop spends most of its time on a wire cage to maximise airflow underneath.

      --
      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    164. Re:crash faster by Tastecicles · · Score: 1

      well, no, that's not what I'm saying.. .although, a while ago my Dell Inspiron 8200 (NVidia AGP card) had a bit of a fit while I was running Debian; similar thing, the graphics chip overheated and the desktop froze then disappeared... to be replaced almost instantly with a shell prompt. I was able to save the machine state and shut down while the poor GPU was starting its half-hour cooldown. When a Windows box does a BSoD you don't get that luxury.

      --
      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    165. Re:crash faster by DesScorp · · Score: 1

      I found Windows 7 to be faster on older hardware than it's previous version (Vista), does that not count?

      Going back a long ways, Windows for Workgroups was faster than Windows 3.1.

      Maybe it's just me, but I found 7's performance to be about the same as Vista 64bit on the same or similar hardware. That in and of itself was an improvement to me. But 8 seems genuinely more responsive than 7.

      --
      Life is hard, and the world is cruel
    166. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yo dawg! I heard you like drivers so we wrote a driver for your driver so your driver can drive the driver!

    167. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No it's not.

    168. Re:crash faster by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      I used to use a Linux VM inside a Windows host but the computers we have at work are fairly weak (with upgrades being promised "in the near future"). I think the CPU doesn't even have proper virtualization support (thank you, Intel). Given that I spend virtually all of my time in Linux I got a nice productivity boost when I started booting straight into it.

      As for the IDE, I'm kind of partial to Komodo's free offering. While it doesn't have too many bells and whistles it has what I need (syntax highlighting, code completion and click-to-find-definition), it's cross-platform and it's free. Project management amounts to pointing at a directory. I'd love the commercial version, especially since it has a built-in DBGP-based debugger, but the free version works well enough for day-to-day use and I think I'll be looking for a new job before the boss is ready to pay for the thing.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    169. Re:crash faster by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      In some situations that may be beneficial, but I can think of a large number of situations where you really do just want the OS to fail when persistent storage is no longer accessible.

      Consider: Next time you boot, there will be zero record of what traffic went through your network during that time. Whether that is good, bad, or a huge security problem depends a lot on where that server is.

    170. Re:crash faster by vonart · · Score: 1

      I know that Lotus Notes causes this issue on my work computer. (Yes, yes, I know it's a horrible thing to run but I've no choice in the matter). Killing the Notes process always made it all work again. I'm not sure *what* it's doing, but I know that it's Lotus that's doing it. It's annoying as all get out, too.

      --
      The American Dream has too much grinding and the leveling makes no sense. -GameboyRMH (1153867)
    171. Re:crash faster by jmerlin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      PowerShell is to administrative shells like the car some 15 year old kid builds in his garage with spare parts from a junkyard is to top-of-the-line race car or luxury car engineering from world leading engineers. It's just not even remotely close to what we get in *nix shells. And all it does is provide you with a CMD + script environment. Everything you can do in it could be done trivially via VBScript or JScript with COM. Microsoft once again instead of embracing technologies just re-invents them and poorly. They could have ported bash and the entire GNU environment with lots of other goodies over to Windows legally and we'd have the best of both worlds, but they instead decided to create some convoluted and terribly designed "competitor." This is similar in many respects to what they do for web browsers. Instead of embracing what we've already created (WebKit is open source, so is V8, WebKit + V8 is almost Chrome, and Microsoft could easily leverage both of these and even contribute back to the community by improving both), they create their own stuff which is years and years behind every other modern browser and which holds the entire industry back because they don't have an insignificant market share. This is the Microsoft way. It needs to stop, now. This is a golden rule, and one of the only rules we adamantly enforce in software engineering: if it isn't broke, don't fix it. More specifically, if something already exists that does what you're doing, use it or improve it. Unless you have a revolutionary approach that is significantly better (demonstrably), such that it is your business value to provide a better implementation, don't ever re-create something that already exists. Microsoft routinely violates this rule. I'm not sure why, maybe because they want to demonstrate to the world that they're still relevant somehow, but instead they end up looking like fucking idiots and pissing everyone off in the process.

      When you need to heat your food, do you grab some iron and create an alloy of it to achieve a higher electrical resistance then wire it into your home's grid? No, you buy a stove, because someone already fucking did that. When you need to keep something cool, do you find a gas with a very low boiling point and create a phase-exchange system for moving heat from a small confined and insulated space to a larger heat dump? No, you buy a refrigerator, because someone already fucking did that. When you live 40 miles from work and need to get there today, do you invent an internal combustion engine, refine crude oil to obtain gasoline, invent strong rubber-based inflatable tires, create a mechanism for distributing power from your engine to the wheel assemblies, etc? No, you buy a fucking car or use public transportation, because someone already solved that problem. In all of these cases, you need TO DO SOMETHING, not make something better than what already exists. You don't decide "well I need to use a linux shell in Windows, let me go ahead and completely invent my own shitty version." No, you port the existing open-source implementation to your platform, at the very most. Because someone already fucking did that.

    172. Re:crash faster by jmerlin · · Score: 1

      Almost forgot the most important exception: *unless it's for educational purposes. Sometimes educational research leads to a better implementation which leads to competing technologies, which is a perfectly reasonable outcome, but more often than not result in a potentially better approach at one thing than the original, which is better used to improve the original.

    173. Re:crash faster by ixidor · · Score: 1

      Lacert, DMS, "productivty suites", Quickbooks, random other 14 year old software we still use. the big one for my shop is quickbooks. it is silver or worse on the winehq database. if you could get quickbooks to run as a proper sql instance and a web interface front end, several small accounting firms could go witj iDevice, android, linux, mac anything but windows.

    174. Re:crash faster by qubezz · · Score: 1

      Windows has been using GPU acceleration since 3.0. They were just called video cards then, and it was GDI and not directx.

      Here's a benchmark where a Voodoo 4 on Win98 out-BitBlts an Intel G45 on Aero.

    175. Re:crash faster by spongman · · Score: 1

      that's the classic 'bash, tr, sort, uniq & sed' answer.

      now, do it just using bash...

    176. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have seen quite a few Windows 7 crashes..... It's better now than a 5 years ago, but it's still have some way to go... And no it's not the best desktop environment available for use in business settings..... It's all about what the need is...

      Apple works ok... has everything needed for most office related things... Needs to be prepared by the IT department...
      Linux works ok... has everything needed for most office related things... Needs to be packaged by the IT department as you would do with any Windows installation... No real issues about drivers or anything, just have a look at what to buy before buying it..... (have about 85% currently running ubuntu at the office, ~75% are developers)
      Windows works ok, but you have to be careful about what hardware you buy because some drivers can really screw up your system... If the system is not screwing up your drivers...

      Apple - expensive..
      Linux - Works... As long as you buy things that are known to work good with linux.. Ask your vendor for linux-compatible machines...
      Windows - Works... As long as you have a "Windows "-certified sticker on it.... Also remember you will have to take care of all the licence-hell when buying machines with OEM licenses for different versions of windows...

    177. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My machine at home is running Ubuntu at the moment, switched from Gentoo about a year ago..... It runs fast, supports all my hardware, sleeps/resumes without a hitch, uptime depends on whenever i get a kernel-update so maybe once a month or so between a reboot instead of hibernate/resume...

      And i still have a real shell...

      Only thing that might be missing is a larger selection of games, but don't really play any games so it does not really matter...

    178. Re:crash faster by guruevi · · Score: 1

      You must not be dealing with a wide spectrum of workloads then. Sure they're fairly stable under standard conditions (locked down workstation with Office etc.)

      I see Windows (XP, Vista and 7) regularly crash (BSOD, hangs, critical Windows processes crash) under the non-office workloads though. Key issues from SP3 -> 7: Enormously buggy IEEE1394 (FireWire) support even with native Microsoft drivers regularly hang the system, high-throughput devices on USB (USB HID devices with Microsoft HID drivers) regularly BSOD the system when queried, and enormously slow and bad TCP/IP stack that doesn't perform well under bad conditions.

      Also Windows 7 checking for HDCP and forcing it down your throat at random times (which when on DVI-D splitter will bring snow to one of the displays) even when the system is idle it will randomly decide to enable HDCP.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    179. Re:crash faster by hobarrera · · Score: 1

      Most other OSs deal with drivers themselves, or at least audit third party drivers quite carefully, and the main and recommended mechanism for installing drivers is through the OS, not an installer provided by the hardware vendor.

      This changes this a lot, however, when it comes to MS, DOS tradition of the vendor providing the driver is still the de-facto, as well as some monetary intereses that are incompatible!

    180. Re:crash faster by spongman · · Score: 1

      if it isn't broke, don't fix it.

      *cough* xargs -0 *cough*

    181. Re:crash faster by spongman · · Score: 1
    182. Re:crash faster by spiralx · · Score: 1

      You've probably managed to hit Scroll Lock. Turning it on causes what I think you mean, and yes, for years this "feature" caused much swearing for me... well, even more swearing than Notes causes every day...

    183. Re:crash faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You haven't provided any evidence that Bash is demonstratably better. I'm not saying that it's better or worse, you've just made an ad hominem attack against PowerShell.

      To your own point, not doing something differently unless it is demonstrably better, bash communicates everything via text this means that anything non-trivial requires text parsing to accomplish. PowerShell, on the other hand, communicates data as objects, which is a very powerful concept. Everything else builds from that. It's not perfect, but it is an advancement worth consideration.

  2. Hardware accelerated BSOD! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It renders 450% faster, with shiny 3D shadowing, halo and light effects.

  3. Maybe it's just me by thesk8ingtoad · · Score: 5, Insightful

    but I have a fairly modest PC and I couldn't tell you the last time I said "Man, I wish I could render these 64 JPEGs in 4 seconds instead of this lousy 7." As far as I'm concerned, text and image rendering hasn't noticeably changed in 10+ years. But, I suppose you have to have something to make up for alienating your userbase with an interface designed for a machine it's not running.

    1. Re:Maybe it's just me by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I've thought that. A few months ago I spend a day or two trying to get GIFs to compress as quickly as possible, trying to get it in under 50milliseconds for a project I was working on. I didn't succeed, but any speedup is welcome to me.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    2. Re:Maybe it's just me by XrayJunkie · · Score: 1

      Its a new Windows with a new interface for new computing machinery. You dont upgrade your hardware because you want to run a new OS. Windows just uses hardware acceleration because its included (cpu or gfx) in every sold system nowadays.

    3. Re:Maybe it's just me by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Suppose you've just downloaded a couple of hundred images from your camera-- Wouldn't it be nice if you could quickly scroll through the images and decide which ones are worth keeping, and which are not? Or perhaps you've photographed some library books, page by page, and it occurs to you that one particular article is more immediately useful, and you don't remember if that's IMG_209--IMG_215, or IMG312-IMG_334. If Windows renders the images quickly enough, it's very simple to flip through the images. If not, you'll be waiting for the images to load.

      Maybe it's a pdf from archive.org that needs thumbing through.

    4. Re:Maybe it's just me by Zaelath · · Score: 1, Funny

      I can put lipstick on this pig 8 times faster than I can put it on this woman. You want that, right?

    5. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Ever scrolled through a large collection of JPG images? Not talking about scrubby 5-6, but anywhere between 200-1000 images, or even more.

      Then you'll notice your computer being quite occupied generating all the thumbnails...

    6. Re:Maybe it's just me by Lord_Jeremy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I use a moderately powerful Mac and I cannot once think of a situation where when I downloaded my camera I had performance issues scrolling through photos in iPhoto. Hell when I use iMovie I can scroll through video with my mouse cursor while experiencing no lag or stutters. My Windows 7 dual-boot on the other hand sometimes inexplicably takes upwards of half a minute to actually display the contents of a directory after I try to open. This is the main reason I do most of my "life stuff" in Mac OS X.

    7. Re:Maybe it's just me by billcopc · · Score: 1

      It's not just you. When I read the title, I assumed it was just another sloppy/ignorant editor exaggerating things, because to me, Windows 7 already feels fully hardware accelerated. I thought that was the whole point of Aero Glass. I didn't notice any UI sluggishness, not on my balls-out gaming rig, nor the wife's 3 year old AMD with integrated graphics. Really, since I started plopping SSDs in all my machines, that was the only variable I could feel anymore in general browser-heavy usage. Everything else seemed to have reached a plateau.

      If Win8 is even faster, well great. Efficiency is always welcome, it will hopefully translate into longer battery life for laptops and tablets.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    8. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows explorer has a nice feature called "Detailed View". Ever tried that?

    9. Re:Maybe it's just me by epyT-R · · Score: 2

      I'm sure this only applies to the explorer image file support. other applications need to use these resources in order to take advantage.. sorry, you're still stuck writing some simd assembly to make that 50ms timelimit.

    10. Re:Maybe it's just me by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      or maybe your ntfs partition is highly fragmented because of resizing? if explorer is hanging, then there's something wrong.. that's not normal behavior.

    11. Re:Maybe it's just me by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 0

      Really? You never asked that question?? Not even while drumming your fingers waiting for all of the thumbnails in your porn stash to be generated?!

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    12. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought the disk IO was worth thousands of times more costly in operations like these, especially when later decoding is cpu bound. It is bad enough that every year we gain a 2 megapixel premium fattening the overhea. Matter of fact, Froyo's stock media player cant zoom in for 14megapixel files, which was the standard LAST year

    13. Re:Maybe it's just me by Lord_Jeremy · · Score: 1, Interesting

      It's not just a partition, it's a dedicated 7200 rpm disk. Anecdotally, I have generally found my system performance to be overall much more inconsistent then it is in Mac OS X. Typically I don't have notable performance issues with general use cases in either OS, yet Windows exhibits hiccups and seemingly random slowdowns much more often.

    14. Re:Maybe it's just me by Clarious · · Score: 1

      I guess their new Metro GUI uses graphical images more extensively, so any kinds of speed up is good, leaving CPU time for other usage or just preventing your CPU to heat up. And browsers such as IE will benefit from this too, as they have to render a lot of images (I don't know about Firefox, maybe they use libjpeg).
      Note that some linux distros have already done this by switching to libjpeg-turbo a while ago.

    15. Re:Maybe it's just me by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 5, Informative

      This has very little to do with displaying the image, it has a lot to do with reading the files, and unpacking them both of which hardware acceleration will not help with at all ...?

      Almost everything that needs hardware acceleration to be fast enough already has it, everything else it should be irrelevant, except MS is pushing whizzy graphics on Metro apps - you know those annoying animations that people have been complaining about for years .....

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
    16. Re:Maybe it's just me by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 1

      So hardware acceleration of image rendering will speed up reading and unpacking files .... amazing I thought it would just speed up the display of graphics ...?

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
    17. Re:Maybe it's just me by Gaygirlie · · Score: 1

      So hardware acceleration of image rendering will speed up reading and unpacking files .... amazing I thought it would just speed up the display of graphics ...?

      Uh, the article specifically does indeed mention speeding up compression and decompression of GIF, JPEG and PNG, so yes, generating the thumbnails or reading the thumbnails for display will be faster.

    18. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Taking a long time to open a directory sounds like the behaviour caused by one of the more well-known antivirus programs (don't recall which one though). Try disabling or uninstalling whatever you're using and see if it changes.

    19. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you are missing the point. the reason for unifying and modernize the graphic pipeline (the thing osx did a couple of years ago) is to allow much better power consumption by bringing all applications to use the new API allowing graphics switcher and card performance to adapt better to workload.

      you can take the same osx as an example: when old applications not ported to the new accellerated api are in use, the graphic systems goes full power.
      http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/07/retina-macbook-pro-maximizing-battery-life-with-gfxcardstatus/

      here windows took a better approach: instead of a totally new API to be used, they backported most of the old stuff to the new pipeline. the target is not to omg accellerated text rendering.

    20. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you don't like the metro interface you don't have to use it, a normal desktop and start menu is sitting behind it. But rather than blindly hating it because it's new, give it a go. Being able to automatically fit all the stuff i keep open on to the desktop could be rather useful to me; Also i like to turn my many computers off when not in use (sue me) booting in to the os and have it automatically load up, log in, and spread out all of my programs would be great. Now if all you ever run is one program it's probably too much but as i said a normal desktop, wallpaper, and start button is sitting there ready to go (as long as it's not an arm cpu).

    21. Re:Maybe it's just me by hobarrera · · Score: 1

      The issue with rendering previews from a camera is mostly transfer speed between the PC and the device, not so much on-screen rendering time.
      I use my cell phone as a camera, so I naturally I copy the photos over wireless, it can take one or two minutes to load EVERY preview. Even USB 2.0 cameras are probably limited by transfer speeds.

    22. Re:Maybe it's just me by SilenceBE · · Score: 2

      If I'm not mistaken QuartzGL (available since 10.5) has 2D acceleration support for applications that support it.

      I must say that between my Windows machine (which is the more powerful one) and my Macbook pro. Media related tasks are always (or "feel") faster on my Macbook Pro. If I see how fluent I can edit movies or preview my edits then it is a whole other experience then on windows.

      It still amazes me that I can see certain things in realtime on my macbook while on my window pc I mostly need to "render" a preview. But I'm aware that it isn't magically fairy dust that makes this mac more faster but it is mainly the graphics core which is very good. People can joke about this changes in Windows but I genuinely think it can and will have a positive impact.

    23. Re:Maybe it's just me by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      yep.. for most parts these accelerations don't matter at all. and if you were doing gpu heavy things using opengl/d3d already these don't matter at all then.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    24. Re:Maybe it's just me by mwvdlee · · Score: 3, Informative

      I used to work with GDI/GDI+ a lot for rendering custom UI controls back in the WinXP days. When Vista was introduced, which lacked hardware-accellerated GDI/GDI+, performance dropped dramatically to the point of being unusable in some cases. Win7 fixed the situation, but it demonstrated the impact simple rendering speed can have.

      ~63ms per JPG versus ~110ms might make the difference between a smooth running UI and one that feels choppy and slugish.

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    25. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Use an 10 years old computer with todays web-browser, and you will notice HOW SLOW the rendering is. The point is: software gets slower but the computers get faster a bit more: visual apps like a browser get a bit faster, but essentially bloated software is increasing and more ineffecient. My suspicion, to be honest, is the use of object oriented programming which abstracts too much and leads to inefficient use of resources (memory and cpu cycles), and because everything became so fast, inefficiency has gone under the carpet.

      I welcome increase of decoding speed of images, if it's due more efficient use of hardware or new algorithms or using existing hardware more efficient (multi-core decoding the same JPEG portion-wise) etc.

    26. Re:Maybe it's just me by gshegosh · · Score: 3, Funny

      Were you trying to create a website, where YouTube videos are converted to animated GIFs on the fly? ;-)

    27. Re:Maybe it's just me by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      I thought the disk IO was worth thousands of times more costly in operations like these

      A lot of people thought that. Then SSDs came along and made a lot of these assumptions incorrect. Developers for most major operating systems are currently optimising everything on the I/O path because assumptions about the relative speed of I/O and computing that have been true for the last 30 years are suddenly wrong (especially on mobile devices).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    28. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even the most advanced GPU, with a fully graphics accelerated desktop, will NOT load those images any bit faster from the hard drive.

    29. Re:Maybe it's just me by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Windows GDI can use jpeg data as a source for BitBlt().

      --
      No sig today...
    30. Re:Maybe it's just me by gbjbaanb · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, they have to persuade you to buy into Metro somehow, and how else but saying "man, that old crap we did, how crap! But we did it right this time, look how cool it all is".

      ArsTechnica did a much better piece about how its not so much how much better Win8 is, but how much of that goodness is put into Metro apps rather than old desktop apps.

      As for WPF, its fine for LoB apps, but TBH those were perfectly catered for with winforms, and winforms were a bit easier to work with - no nasty interfaces, loads of property-laden objects, and really crufty binding expressions in the XAML, Winforms were so simple in comparison and did everything your LoB app wanted, but I guess MS couldn't have sold you the new VS and Blend to work with WPF without saying "man, that old crap we did, how crap! But we did it right this time, look how cool it all is".

    31. Re:Maybe it's just me by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      This has very little to do with displaying the image, it has a lot to do with reading the files, and unpacking them both of which hardware acceleration will not help with at all ...?

      I was about to say pretty much the same thing, but then thought that maybe the GPU would help in scaling the thumbnails.

    32. Re:Maybe it's just me by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      Or every single piece of software that uses the windows graphics libraries to render images....

    33. Re:Maybe it's just me by devent · · Score: 1

      The bottleneck here is the I/O (Input/Output) aka your hard disk or your camera flash memory. A good programmed GUI will not freeze if some I/O is happening but a faster rendering will accelerate the image rendering maybe by 0.1% (in contrast a faster hard disk like a RAID will accelerate the rendering by 100% or more).

      The fact is all graphic is already accelerated by modern 3D graphic cards. Even Java Swing is accelerated by 3D graphic cards. My whole desktop is one big 3D game: I have 3D effects enabled since 1 year onmy Fedora Linux. So what is not 3D accelerated?

      --
      http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
    34. Re:Maybe it's just me by MachineShedFred · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's because Mac OS X has been using the GPU for window and desktop rendering since about 2002 through Quartz Extreme, Core Graphics, and Core Image.

      Microsoft is very late to this party.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    35. Re:Maybe it's just me by MachineShedFred · · Score: 3, Informative

      QuartzGL is the latest version of Apple's support for 2D GPU acceleration, which first showed up in Snow Leopard. However, if the apps you're using are using Quartz 2D (a.k.a. Core Graphics) to render their windows, or use Core Image for displaying images, they've been GPU accelerated for years. Jaguar (Mac OS X 10.2) introduced Quartz Extreme, which put the Quartz Compositer (think: window server) on the GPU, and started using the GPU for Core Graphics.

      That was in 2002.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    36. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since you're saying any speedup and you've done all other optimizations... have you tried hand-optimized assembly language?

    37. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really, it hasn't ?

      Google image search would have made your pc or network connection grind 10 years ago. You haven't thought about the render times because it just works today due to incremental improvements ( also in cpu, ram, network speed) If you want to consider rendering 32 64 or 128 images.see again Google or Bing image search again.

    38. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I'm sure people like you complained at every MS-Office upgrade too. Don't see you using Office 95 now though.

    39. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I could see how these subtle improvements would accumulate if you were say running some sort of server or a top shelf gaming rig or something,
      but there doesn't seem to be many advantages to be had from windows versions post XP for the average personal computer user IMO.

      More disadvantages then advantages.

    40. Re:Maybe it's just me by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1

      So it's designed to make copyright infringement of books easier. Got it.

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
    41. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "unpacking them...hardware acceleration will not help with at all ...?"

      False. That's kinda the point. GPGPU has been around for years; the fact that you're unaware of it isn't MS' problem (they have plenty of their own, thank you).

    42. Re:Maybe it's just me by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      I have a small portable PC with an Atom 1.33GHz processor and Windows XP, but I want to view large 16-megapixel JPEGs from a digital camera. So JPEG rendering speed does matter. I found that jpegview.sourceforge.net, a free program that uses Intel's optimized JPEG library, performs better than the standard picture viewer. Even so, it takes a second or two to flip from one image to the next. Anything that can crunch through them faster is welcome.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    43. Re:Maybe it's just me by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      GIF compression uses the LZW algorithm which is integer-based, hard to parallelize, and so a very unlikely candidate for speedups using SIMD instructions or GPU acceleration. I doubt Windows 8's improved graphics performance will do anything for GIF (or PNG) images, except perhaps for scaling them up and down after decompression.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    44. Re:Maybe it's just me by firex726 · · Score: 1

      Outside a porn collection or server, when would you need to have 1000+ images stored in a single folder with zero organization, and had to rely on a thumbnail to distinguish it?

      A photographer might generate that much content but he'll organize it, same for a graphic designer.

    45. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      does not even have to be assembler any good compiler with SIMD support (Intel or Microsoft or even GCC) should be able to convert JPEG to BMP in much less than 50ms if you write your loops in a way that enables easy vectorization

    46. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      depends on woman in question, i saw some that look less alluring than a pig

    47. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you are assuming that he knows what is file-name of image he wants to find, most times my camera records images with names like DC0001.jpeg DC0002.jpeg and so on ... so if i want to find some image i snapped i need to use thumbnail view

    48. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's because Mac OS X has been using the GPU for window and desktop rendering since about 2002 through Quartz Extreme, Core Graphics, and Core Image.

      Microsoft is very late to this party.

      By "very late" you mean "about one year before OSX" in Windows XP in 2001 with GDI+?

    49. Re:Maybe it's just me by Kazymyr · · Score: 2

      C'mon, text renders 184% faster, you can't ignore that. That's rendering a line of text in .027 milliseconds instead of 0.0496 milliseconds, definitely an improvement, and long overdue. Who cares that in order to do that you'll need to have 1400 graphic cores running at full speed, using about 0.8kW in the process.

      --
      I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet -Stanislaw Lem
    50. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First it was Seagate who realized that their products are all about storing porn. Now Microsoft have found the light and realized that their operating system's main role is that of a porn delivery system. I'm waiting for the display manufacturers to standardize on 3000 by 2000 format, with lightning fast tilt and a handle.

    51. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't care how much hardware acceleration they put into rendering those images, it doesn't mean anything when most people are running mediocre HDDs. I don't remember the last time I seen stand-ins for image thumbnails on my computer, seen it often enough on client's computers. The problem is not a lack of hardware acceleration, though for 2GHz CPUs that could be a noticeable factor; no the problem is HDD speed. When majority of people are using HDDs that can barely hit 50MB/s, of course their going to have to stop and wait for images that are a couple megs each to load. Sadly despite HDD that can reach 200MB/s and higher being cheap, the premade computer companies will never bother with that stuff because most people don't do anything that makes it noticeable on a regular basis.

    52. Re:Maybe it's just me by Tuan121 · · Score: 1

      Try turning off Aero.

      It doesn't look as nice, but you will notice a snappier interface. This happens to me accidentally when using remote desktop software that disables it.

      Turn Aero back on, and you will notice the lag. So being able to make everything look pretty and have a very snappy interface is always a plus.

    53. Re:Maybe it's just me by DCstewieG · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, he's right. GDI+ does not make effective use of the GPU.

      http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/gdigdi_move_over_microsoft_introduces_direct2d

      [Microsoft's Thomas Olson] points out that GDI/GDI+ use software rendering for tasks that modern GPUs can now perform...

      Quartz Extreme has supported GPU acceleration since OS X 10.2, released in 2002.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz_Compositor

    54. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would just chalk that up to crappy hardware. Windows works better with premium hardware when dealing with image decoding (we're talking processor here). /not a troll.

    55. Re:Maybe it's just me by amliebsch · · Score: 1

      The difference is how much rendering is done by vertex and pixel shaders, and how much is pre-rendered by the CPU and blitted to the GPU as a texture. Ideally you want as much of the former as you can.

      --
      If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
    56. Re:Maybe it's just me by DCstewieG · · Score: 1

      I think it's a bigger deal for battery life. Faster processing, less power use.

    57. Re:Maybe it's just me by Ryanrule · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Stop redoing the ui
      Stop redoing the ui
      Stop redoing the ui

    58. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not for your desktop, it's for tablets.
      Your desktop PC has enough CPU to make rendering daily stuff plenty fast, but tablets have much weaker CPUs. Re-writing the back end of the display system to use the GPU for everything will really make the tablets seem much faster.

    59. Re:Maybe it's just me by cpu6502 · · Score: 1

      For my computer the biggest obstacle is not the speed of rendering. It's the lack of memory (only 1/2 GB) which causes slow loads off the HDD virtual memory.

      If programmers want to improve speed, they should try and follow the Puppy Linux philosophy of fitting everything into RAM so the swapfile does not need to be used. (IMHO)

      Oh and I suspect these Windows 8 graphical upgrades will be integrated into Windows 7's Service Pack 2. So if this GIF decompress test was run again on Win7-SP2 it would likely reduce the time from 7 to 5 seconds..... very close to Win8's performance.

      --
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    60. Re:Maybe it's just me by tokul · · Score: 1

      Suppose you've just downloaded a couple of hundred images from your camera--

      Bigger half of processing will be on disk I/O and not on display.

    61. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I actually do this all the time. My pictures directory is kept in thumbnail mode. It take a bit of time to render out a large screen's worth of images. Anything that cuts the time down noticeably is welcome.

    62. Re:Maybe it's just me by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Wow, get more RAM, it's cheap. I guarantee you would not be running our software on half a gig of RAM.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    63. Re:Maybe it's just me by cpu6502 · · Score: 1

      >>>Wow, get more RAM, it's cheap.

      YOU were the one who was trying to "optimize" his code for faster speed. And I was explaining how you can do that (eliminate having to use the swapfile by using less memory). With the way you programmers are gobbling-up RAM soon even an 8 gigabyte PC won't be able to run at fullspeed because it will be wasting time thrashing the HDD.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    64. Re:Maybe it's just me by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      No, swapfiles weren't the limiting factor in this application (I had gobs of free RAM). They are irrelevant to what I was doing.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    65. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I was explaining how you can do that (eliminate having to use the swapfile by using less memory)

      If that is how you offer advice to others, no wonder you so often dismiss the advice of others. It's because you don't recognize it as advice.

    66. Re:Maybe it's just me by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      Could you please point me to the Windows API function that lets me create radial dials, animated thumbnails, arcballs, multi-range sliders and sortable lists?

      You're are obviously unaware of how few UI controls are actually supplied by the Windows API. It's no more than a few dozen.

      Even Microsoft's own software is full of custom controls. Most of what's on the ribbons in Office is non-standard. The Windows start-bar and most of its buttons are non-standard. MSIE is non-standard. Only the most basic and limited of applications can suffice with just standard controls. You are ofcourse invited to give counter examples to the ones provided above; major application that only use standard controls.

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    67. Re:Maybe it's just me by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      The quote from the article states:

      Windows 8 takes 40% less time than Windows 7 to render 64images (4.38 seconds vs. 7.28 seconds)

      They don't mention the image size-- my 10 megapixel camera generates 1.3 MB jpegs and 15 MB raws. Maybe 85 MB of data? from an SSD? Would it really take as long as 7.28 seconds to display 85 MB of jpegs?

    68. Re:Maybe it's just me by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      Oops. I underestimated. My best, outdoor shots are about 3.5MB.

    69. Re:Maybe it's just me by Pr0xY · · Score: 1

      You are right about software bloat, but I wouldn't blame OOP.

      OOP doesn't have to be less efficient (though admittedly, it is in some ways easier to write less efficient code in OOP languages). For example. There should be absolutely no difference in the the performance between these to snippets (as long as no virtual functions are involved):

      C code:

      void some_function(struct some_struct *p) { /* do whatever */
      }

      some_function(&thing);

      C++ code:

      void Thing::some_function() { /* do whatever */
      }

      thing.some_function();

      In fact, they should in principle end up being identical machine code.

      **properly** written C++ code can and should be made as efficient as its C counterparts. In fact, due to templates which have nothing to do with OOP, some C++ code can even exceed the C implementation's speed.

      Abstractions can sometimes be **more efficient**, if they can convey to the compiler what is needed better. A trivial example of this is something like: std::swap, when you see this in the code, you know that it is swapping two variables. Because of templates the compiler has extra type information available, and in theory could have specialized implementations which do the swap particularly efficiently. Imagine when swapping two integers if the compiler has enough information to say "hey, that could just be a single xchg instruction. That higher level of abstraction just increased the expressiveness of the language and let the compiler implement more efficient code!

      I think a more fair thing to blame is the current mentality of the development world in general. There seems to be a (IMO misguided) consensus that it's OK to write things in an inefficient way if it works, because the hardware is "fast enough". While I can agree that "premature optimization is the root of all evil", I also feel that people should default to writing code in a well designed way, which happens to often overlap with the efficient way. The pervasiveness of scripting languages (JavaScript, Python, PHP, Ruby, etc) continue this trend and I feel it's only a matter of time before this crappy, bloated, inefficient code can no longer be outweighed by the power of our CPUs.

      Well designed code needs to make a comeback!

    70. Re:Maybe it's just me by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      It's not just you. When I read the title, I assumed it was just another sloppy/ignorant editor exaggerating things, because to me, Windows 7 already feels fully hardware accelerated. I thought that was the whole point of Aero Glass. I didn't notice any UI sluggishness, not on my balls-out gaming rig, nor the wife's 3 year old AMD with integrated graphics. Really, since I started plopping SSDs in all my machines, that was the only variable I could feel anymore in general browser-heavy usage. Everything else seemed to have reached a plateau.

      If Win8 is even faster, well great. Efficiency is always welcome, it will hopefully translate into longer battery life for laptops and tablets.

      That confused me, too, but then I remembered that DirectWrite isn't mandatory for applications and was, in fact, one of the major selling points for IE9 (and the reason it wasn't released for WinXP).

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    71. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By "very late" you mean "about one year before OSX" in Windows XP in 2001 with GDI+?

      Informative? Maybe if you know nothing and can't be bothered to check.

      GDI+ was a 100% software API. GDI, the Win95 graphics API, was already hardware accelerated. The acceleration wasn't very good but it did work, and it did make a significant difference in the early days of the 200MHz CPU.

      GDI+ was introduced because GDI was pretty much designed specifically for direct hardware processing on a very specific class of video accelerators. In short, alpha transparency (translucency) was impossible in GDI. GDI+ was created to fix that problem but it is a 100% software API as D3D was too unstable to use as a core API in early WinXP days.

    72. Re:Maybe it's just me by Githaron · · Score: 1

      That might be the case but I would venture a guess that the abstraction tends to make software development cheaper since it tends to make development faster and code easier to understand. Since hardware is advancing faster than our inefficiencies from abstraction, most consider the trade-off acceptable.

    73. Re:Maybe it's just me by Russ1642 · · Score: 1

      You need to see the thumbnails when you're organizing the content. Duh.

    74. Re:Maybe it's just me by firex726 · · Score: 1

      Might be "Duh" if you're either lazy or an idiot.

      It's call folders and files names and other details. Photographer isn't going to dump his whole portfolio into one giant folder and go through the thumbnails to find the photos of the Ramierez Wedding mixed in with the Smith and Jones Weddings.

      What he'd do is name them differently and dump them in their own folder.

      Need the Ramierez Wedding photos? Scroll down to "Weddings - Ramierez" folder and open it up.

    75. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      QuartzGL is the latest version of Apple's support for 2D GPU acceleration, which first showed up in Snow Leopard. However, if the apps you're using are using Quartz 2D (a.k.a. Core Graphics) to render their windows, or use Core Image for displaying images, they've been GPU accelerated for years. Jaguar (Mac OS X 10.2) introduced Quartz Extreme, which put the Quartz Compositer (think: window server) on the GPU, and started using the GPU for Core Graphics.

      Holy. Sheet.

      Quartz Extreme did one thing: allowed the window server to move window composition to the video card -- no bearing on what was really drawn inside. These are entirely seperate animals, and Microsoft "caught up" (and expanded, they were late to the party but brought a keg) in Vista.

      This is a different beast, where every function inside the window is hardware accellerated in order to draw it (eg, splines for text engine, yadda) and then had it off for compositing.

      You'll take this personally, but this is another example of someone continually regurgitating marketing making claims they didn't understand years later.

      That or you were aware of these things and were being disingenious.

    76. Re:Maybe it's just me by TrancePhreak · · Score: 1

      Is this Windows on a Mac? Because those bootcamp drivers are a steaming pile. Just look at iTunes performance differences between the two, yet the Zune software is flashier than iTunes and performs better in Windows. All I'm trying to say is, Apple is not very good at writing Windows software.

      --

      -]Phreak Out[-
    77. Re:Maybe it's just me by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      and unpacking them both of which hardware acceleration will not help with at all ...?

      Sure it will. Decoding JPEGs does a lot of DCTs that can be done with SIMD operations on the CPU and/or offloaded and parallalized on a GPU.

    78. Re:Maybe it's just me by Lord_Jeremy · · Score: 1

      Well first of all, no it's not a Mac. It's a Hackintosh built with off-the-shelf PC parts running a dual boot with Mac OS X and Windows 7. Also, there's a huge difference between Bootcamp drivers and iTunes. For one thing, iTunes is running on what is essentially a port of Cocoa/CoreFoundation to Windows. Much of the Bootcamp driver package is provided by hardware manufacturers and is most definitely not written in Cocoa. On my older MacBook Pro I've had no issues that I could attribute to the Bootcamp drivers.

    79. Re:Maybe it's just me by aliquis · · Score: 1

      1/2 GB is quite much for a 6502.

      But yeah. Really. He should stop complaining and get more RAM.

      "Oh everything doesn't fit in my 10 year old spec machines RAM!"

    80. Re:Maybe it's just me by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      I don't mind, it's good to save memory and all that, but his blanket statement saying 'reduce your memory footprint will make your code more efficient' is false more often than it's true.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    81. Re:Maybe it's just me by ZosX · · Score: 1

      My phone has more RAM than your computer for christ's sake! Quit being such a cheapskate and buy a couple of sticks. Hell, my laptop came with 8 gigs and it was pretty cheap.

    82. Re:Maybe it's just me by ZosX · · Score: 1

      Try opening a folder with a bunch of large (over 1gb) tiff files. It will bring explorer to its knees. Actually any directory with a large number of extremely large files is not a good idea. It takes a long time to read through all those files.

    83. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By "very late" you mean "about one year before OSX" in Windows XP in 2001 with GDI+?

      Informative? Maybe if you know nothing and can't be bothered to check.

      GDI+ was a 100% software API. GDI, the Win95 graphics API, was already hardware accelerated. The acceleration wasn't very good but it did work, and it did make a significant difference in the early days of the 200MHz CPU.

      GDI+ was introduced because GDI was pretty much designed specifically for direct hardware processing on a very specific class of video accelerators. In short, alpha transparency (translucency) was impossible in GDI. GDI+ was created to fix that problem but it is a 100% software API as D3D was too unstable to use as a core API in early WinXP days.

      Is that why "how to turn off hardware graphics accelleration" was a common recommendation to try if you had graphic issues with Windows XP? (like this from Adobe). Why should you turn off graphics hardware accelleration if it was 100% software?

    84. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why should you turn off graphics hardware accelleration if it was 100% software?

      Because in the Real World software has bugs, no?

    85. Re:Maybe it's just me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you honestly claim you know all the use cases for looking at a lot of thumbnails?

    86. Re:Maybe it's just me by murphtall · · Score: 1

      Faster processing does not equal less power use. Walk a mile. Sprint a mile. Compare.

    87. Re:Maybe it's just me by TheReal_sabret00the · · Score: 1

      My wallpaper folder have around 5000 images in a folder with zero organisation other than filename.

    88. Re:Maybe it's just me by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1

      And we all know, the general user doesn't have a porn collection...

      --
      I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
    89. Re:Maybe it's just me by TrancePhreak · · Score: 1

      I had another idea, you may have HDD spindown enabled in Windows' power settings. Since you're on a hackintosh, OSX is unlikely to have any power saving enabled.

      --

      -]Phreak Out[-
    90. Re:Maybe it's just me by Lord_Jeremy · · Score: 1

      What makes you think there's no power saving on a Hackintosh? Out of the box I've got things like speedstep enabled (thank you Gigabyte board) and the hard drives spin down too (I think I left it at the default of 15 minutes). I have noticed that sometimes when I do something as innocuous open the context menu in Win7, it waits for all six of my internal disks to spin up before doing anything.

  4. Re:really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    no it isn't :-P

    maybe your machine isn't hardware accelerated enough.

  5. ...typographically-rich Metro-style apps. by Robert+Zenz · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So, "typographically rich" is the new buzzword, yes?

    1. Re:...typographically-rich Metro-style apps. by Shimbo · · Score: 5, Funny

      So, "typographically rich" is the new buzzword, yes?

      Give us $1 million or WE WILL USE BLOCK CAPS EVERYWHERE.

    2. Re:...typographically-rich Metro-style apps. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 4, Informative

      "Typographically rich" just means that the apps actually use the well-established typographic rules that are widely used in print media, and these days also on websites, for their UI. You know, things like the appropriate choice of fonts (serif vs sans serif etc), varying text sizes and styles to visually distinguish different pieces of data, general layout rules etc. As opposed to rendering everything in the same 8pt system font, and using chrome to highlight things.

      Here are the actual design guidelines that explain it all in more detail.

    3. Re:...typographically-rich Metro-style apps. by BradleyUffner · · Score: 2

      So, "typographically rich" is the new buzzword, yes?

      The have hardware accelerated CAPITALIZING ALL THE TEXT IN MENUS.

    4. Re:...typographically-rich Metro-style apps. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But it's still a software render to convert it all to Comic Sans.

    5. Re:...typographically-rich Metro-style apps. by devent · · Score: 2

      "Typographically rich" means for me to use what is available since 30 years or more: hyphenations for text, real small caps and ligatures. In the design guidelines is only some crappy font settings which I know and do not love from every Web page out there. So nothing new here at all.

      But what should I expect if you just take Html, JS and Css to design applications. If you not take the hint: it's the worst possible format for good designs. I mean, it took what, 10 years for CSS to finally get gradient support done? Or rounded borders? Or shadows?

      http://www.mueller-public.de/2012/07/hyphenation/
      http://oestrem.com/thingstwice/2007/05/latex-vs-word-vs-writer/

      --
      http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
    6. Re:...typographically-rich Metro-style apps. by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      No, it's just a new way of saying "wall of text."

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    7. Re:...typographically-rich Metro-style apps. by KiloByte · · Score: 2

      well-established typographic rules

      Well, remind me then which company gave us Comic Sans.

      --
      The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    8. Re:...typographically-rich Metro-style apps. by firex726 · · Score: 1

      Gotta love those marketers, they'll go to any lengths to find something sell-able about Windows 8.

    9. Re:...typographically-rich Metro-style apps. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They obviously knew their target market.

    10. Re:...typographically-rich Metro-style apps. by MagicM · · Score: 0

      Give us $1 million or WE WILL USE BLOCK CAPS EVERYWHERE.

      You think you're just kidding.

      http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2012/06/05/a-design-with-all-caps.aspx

    11. Re:...typographically-rich Metro-style apps. by jrumney · · Score: 1

      So, "typographically rich" is the new buzzword, yes?

      Only when written typographically rich to show off that you have some inkling of what it means.

    12. Re:...typographically-rich Metro-style apps. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They gave us Comic Sans, instead of telling everyone to use it.
      Do you use WingDings just because it is included?

    13. Re:...typographically-rich Metro-style apps. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      You don't have to use HTML/JS/CSS to design Win8 Metro applications. XAML is still there, backed by your choice of .NET or C++.

    14. Re:...typographically-rich Metro-style apps. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Comic Sans is a very valuable contribution to humanity. Its point is to serve as an instantly recognizable marker for rapid filtering of textual information: when you see any text in Comic Sans, you know that you don't have to read it because it's practically certainly rubbish. ~

    15. Re:...typographically-rich Metro-style apps. by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      Even more true since MBA types seem to love it.

    16. Re:...typographically-rich Metro-style apps. by Raenex · · Score: 1

      when you see any text in Comic Sans, you know that you don't have to read it because it's practically certainly rubbish. ~

      I like Comic Sans, you insensitive clod! Actually, I'm not kidding.

      Also, a couple of really smart guys that have used it in their slides: Simon Peyton-Jones of Haskell fame, and Tim Sweeney of Gears of War fame.

    17. Re:...typographically-rich Metro-style apps. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Also, a couple of really smart guys that have used it in their slides: Simon Peyton-Jones of Haskell fame, and Tim Sweeney of Gears of War fame.

      That's a cunning trick: that way you make the viewers so preoccupied with the font that they forget to criticize the presentation itself.

  6. Yes but.. by lotekppc · · Score: 2

    It's ugly. I really want to like it, but metro's big colored blocks feel like a step back on a desktop. I have four screens, several feet away from me, I don't want to touch them. I suspect that once its released the first thing that will be done is the "back to the desktop and start menu" hack. And yes, I know this has been done, but still. Its ugly.

    1. Re:Yes but.. by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Funny

      If you've been watching Microsoft at all in the last 20 years, and expected anything but ugly, then you haven't been paying attention.

      A good part of the reason OSX is considered 'beautiful' is because people are comparing it to Windows. Yeah I just insulted Microsoft and Apple fanboys, but it's true.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    2. Re:Yes but.. by Robert+Zenz · · Score: 1

      You're using Windows with four screens? Are you using a different window manager or some additional software to manage windows?

    3. Re:Yes but.. by Gaygirlie · · Score: 4, Informative

      I suspect that once its released the first thing that will be done is the "back to the desktop and start menu" hack.

      Stardock's Start8 already allows you to boot straight to traditional desktop and recreates the Start-menu as seen on Windows 7. That will be one of the first applications I'll be installing, that's for sure.

    4. Re:Yes but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      You're using Windows with four screens? Are you using a different window manager or some additional software to manage windows?

      Windows 8 actually has quite significant multi-screen improvements built in, see the blog post http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/05/21/enhancing-windows-8-for-multiple-monitors.aspx

    5. Re:Yes but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's funny, because I've always thought Mac OS was ugly as shit. So do a lot of people.

    6. Re:Yes but.. by billcopc · · Score: 5, Informative

      Windows 7 added a few simple keyboard shortcuts to quickly move windows around and dock them to the left or right half of a monitor. It does the same if you drag a window to the edges of a monitor. I can't speak for the GP, but personally I have not needed a 3rd party window manager since this addition. I can't even remember the software I was using back in the XP days, but it basically did the same thing.

      Since most well-behaved Windows apps remember their position on exit, this is just peachy. If they don't, proper alignment is just a few keystrokes away. Combined with the Win+(digit) shortcuts for the first 9 items on the start bar (docked or running apps), I don't even touch the mouse for most of my work.

      Here's a list of those shortcuts at Lifehacker

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    7. Re:Yes but.. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      Last time I've tried Start8, it didn't actually recreate the Win7 Start menu. Instead, it shows the Win8 new Metro home screen in a popup window in the same location where the Start menu would've been in Win7.

    8. Re:Yes but.. by epyT-R · · Score: 3

      yeah wonderful, but the stupid metro start menu ruins it all..

    9. Re:Yes but.. by dbIII · · Score: 1

      I am as well (setting up 4 screen systems to go into trucks that is), and it sucks badly enough on two screens let alone 4. Nvidia do have some management stuff that tells paticular windows where to go but I haven't touched that since XP.
      At home I had 2 screens in one room and the TV as a third screen in the other, which is a pain since LCD TV's suck as monitors (overscan), and things typically pop up on a screen in the other room no matter where the mouse pointer is located. Full screen games or movies on VLC behave themselves but such a setup is almost useless for anything else. While that's a bit of a pathalogical case, with 3 or 4 screens in front of you there's going to be a lot of mouse miles travelled.

    10. Re:Yes but.. by Gaygirlie · · Score: 1

      Aye, seems it's that way now. Still, it's better than having to use the fullscreen menu, and I'm fairly certain someone will eventually actually do a proper Start-menu replacement. (Of course it'd be best all around if there was no need for such a replacement in the first place, but alas....)

    11. Re:Yes but.. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Someone already did (ironically even before Win8) - it's ViStart. Not pixel-perfect, but all the functionality is there.

    12. Re:Yes but.. by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Windows 7 added a few simple keyboard shortcuts to quickly move windows around and dock them to the left or right half of a monitor.

      I haven't really used Windows beyond XP, but this is considered new? It's been a standard feature of window managers (like FVWM) pretty much for ever.

      Since most well-behaved Windows apps remember their position on exit,

      Well, this isn't Microsoft's fault per-se. I mean it's reasonable for Microsoft to make Windows however they want. But idiots keep porting those bloody features over to Linux. It's really lovely when a program has its window off screen and then remembers that position on startup. Hilarious.

      Thankfully, one can tell FVWM to ignore that, too.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    13. Re:Yes but.. by FBeans · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't understand. From what I can see the "selling point" of Windows 8 is metro, is touch screen, is the new UI. You, and many others, I'm sure, will be instantly disabling these features? Guess what, I don't blame your for this, I just wonder why you don't choose an operating system to fit your needs, whether it's sticking with Windows 7 or moving elsewhere. Is it a good idea to "upgrade" and then spend time and effort working around those upgrades to have what you had before?

    14. Re:Yes but.. by Gaygirlie · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I don't understand. From what I can see the "selling point" of Windows 8 is metro, is touch screen, is the new UI. You, and many others, I'm sure, will be instantly disabling these features?

      There isn't really much to disable, I'll just use the traditional desktop with one or another Start-menu replacement, that's all.

      Guess what, I don't blame your for this, I just wonder why you don't choose an operating system to fit your needs, whether it's sticking with Windows 7 or moving elsewhere. Is it a good idea to "upgrade" and then spend time and effort working around those upgrades to have what you had before?

      I want the performance-improvements and increased battery-life offered by Windows 8, that's more-or-less the whole reason for me to upgrade, though being able to better support family and friends with Windows 8 is a good side-effect. Since I bought a new laptop at the beginning of June I am eligible for the discounted price of Windows 8 Pro, I'll have already saved that money just by skipping one Subway-meal and as such the price is not really a deterrent. I will be sticking with Windows 7 on my desktop, though, as it is not eligible for this discount.

      As for "moving elsewhere": that is unfortunately not a suitable solution for my use-cases.

    15. Re:Yes but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah wonderful, but the stupid metro start menu ruins it all..

      Have you been trying to use Win8RC over a period of time? If you want you spend 99% of the time in something that looks almost exactly like Windows 7, only better in a number of areas (noticable faster - including boot/sleep/resume, better file and task manager, better multimonitor support, better power management - I get noticable longer running time on my Lenovo laptop, etc.).

      You can pin your favorite programs and seldom need the Metro start menu if you don't want to. I agree that going from the old start menu to the Metro start menu is a change to get used to, basically going from an expanding variant to a full screen variant which as first is a bit unexpected and disconnected user experience, but for me it is not such a big deal that it blocks getting all the improvements done to Windows. And parts of it is even growing on me. At first I didn't understood or used the charms bar at all, but as I started to get the concept of the standard functionality it offers across apps it too is growing on me. Is this intuitive at first glance without being told? Perhaps not, but as another poster pointed out, neither was right-clicking.

    16. Re:Yes but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have not ever used an operating system that I didn't spend time customizing. How is this any different?

    17. Re:Yes but.. by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Windows 8 has more in it than just Metro. Kind of like GPU acceleration for much of the desktop environment. Someone should write an article about that.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    18. Re:Yes but.. by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      As for "moving elsewhere": that is unfortunately not a suitable solution for my use-cases.

      Don't say that, last time I made the mistake of saying that I needed Windows for something I got a whole army of ultra morons who believe that because they can edit their photos and check their email on the web, that means that no-one needs Windows anymore.

    19. Re:Yes but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah wonderful, but the stupid metro start menu ruins it all..

      100% agree, I hate that stupid start screen.
       
      My question is will the DirectX improvments come to Windows 7?
       
        Just like Vista, I am going to skip this OS offering from Microsoft. I'll just catch the next one, probably named Windows 9 because Microsoft is clever like that.

    20. Re:Yes but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It perhaps is difficult for anyone used to free software to understand but commercial software tend to require a all-or-nothing upgrade pattern.
      If one wants the new kernel enhancements (more efficient use of memory, some significant speed optimized paths and more) or the new desktop UI style one also gets the other things like "metro" (how boring isn't that name?).
      But the basic user interface in Windows have been very efficient for keyboard users since at least win2k and many of us "just" want Windows 7++ instead of being forced to use of a retrofitted touchpad UI.

    21. Re:Yes but.. by FBeans · · Score: 1

      I'm getting tired of using this as a reply but: My response to users complaining about the software or OS they use is the same. If you don't like it, do something about it, don't just put up with it. Of course, you might find that although the alternatives offer features x, y and z (e.g. rolling updates, that are decoupled, more control of the interface etc) they may not be able to deliver you other features a, b and c. Windows, and Mac OSs are what they are. We know the pros and we know the cons. You have a choice. We all do. Complaining doesn't help, but one can "talk with their actions" and change the products they use. It's up to each user to change the market, to change the direction of a feature, a product or a company, by actually using the software they want, not compromising with software that doesn't cut the mustard and then complaining about it.

    22. Re:Yes but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Metro is not the selling point for me. I dislike it. However, improved filesystem performance, improved multimonitor support, improved tools (task manager, backup), stupidly fast booting, USB3 support. It actually getting some fit'n finish things that linux has had for almost a decade. I'd be using linux as my primary OS if some of the mainstream software I had would run on it, and if I could play games on it. Win7 is a very decent OS, but Win8 has a lot of improvements (and metro is not one of them).

    23. Re:Yes but.. by Rhacman · · Score: 1

      We are choosing an operating system to fit our needs. We just don't like the window managment system that is packaged alongside this particular release of the operating system. If a user of a Linux system didn't want to build from scratch and found a distro that had the capabilities they needed but didn't like the window manager they could install the distro and do the swap in the same manner.

      --
      Account -> Discussions -> Disable Sigs
    24. Re:Yes but.. by Bigbutt · · Score: 1

      I have four screens for my Win7 system and it seems to work fine from the OS. I can manage the screens from the video software if I like but I seldom need to go into that. And mine are set up with two vertical 23" monitors on either side angled towards me and two horizontal ones (one upside down above the other) in the center. It gives me a main screen for general work and the three adjacent screens to hold PDFs, file directories, ssh sessions, or what have you.
        _ ___ _
      |--|___|--|
      |_|___|_|

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
    25. Re:Yes but.. by Shag · · Score: 1

      But they're fully hardware-accelerate big colored blocks! Exciting! :)

      --
      Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
    26. Re:Yes but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I could swear that I read somewhere that the enterprise version of Win8 will have the option of booting to the desktop.

    27. Re:Yes but.. by lennier · · Score: 1

      I just wonder why you don't choose an operating system to fit your needs, whether it's sticking with Windows 7

      It would be nice if Microsoft gave us the opportunity to buy Windows 7 after they release Windows 8. I for one wouldn't be buying 8 if I had a choice, and I suspect the vast majority of purchasers would also choose similarly. But we won't get to find out what the market would decide on its own, will we? We'll be offered "everything or nothing".

      What would be even nicer would be if they have us the opportunity to buy the Windows XP GUI with the latest underlying OS guts and security fixes. For me, Windows 7 has been a step forwards from an OS internals point of view combined a huge step backwards from the GUI point of view. I wish OS design could simply move forward without having to decide whether I want a security-crippled, insta-rootable OS or one with a less usable interface.

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    28. Re:Yes but.. by lennier · · Score: 1

      It's up to each user to change the market, to change the direction of a feature, a product or a company, by actually using the software they want, not compromising with software that doesn't cut the mustard and then complaining about it.

      A high-minded ideal. But what if none of the options on the market are exactly what you want to use? Do you "not compromise" by not using any software at all? Or do you choose the software that's the "least worst" from your point of view and then complain about the features that you still want but haven't been given the option to even choose if you wanted to?

      Are you saying that it's invalid to complain about a missing choice even when you weren't given the ability to choose it? Because that's the situation we've got now, and not just in software - in all walks of life including politics. And I don't read in history books that people changed the world by silencing dissent and mutely choosing between available options A and B when what they really wanted was a choice between C and D.

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    29. Re:Yes but.. by ZosX · · Score: 1

      That's actually a pretty impressive clone.

    30. Re:Yes but.. by FBeans · · Score: 1

      I agree, compromising with the ideal is a necessity. You will have to choose the best of the bunch. If you choose correctly, you will have some say, some affect, or at least have a chance to contribute to changing software ( Complaining in /. certainly isn't the answer). Like politics, if you don't like A or B, then you create C, or help to create C or get on board with A or B and try to make changes. Perhaps putting a vote in the most versatile option, the one that doesn't necessarily tick the most boxes, but has the best chance to change, or adapt, is the answer. The thing to remember about software, is that anything is possible. Any combination of anything you want is _technically_ possible. In the real world, you have a few choices, I personally will always choose the one, in which I have the most say in what happens, the one where I can aid, help, and make changes. If one is not prepared to put some work in themselves, in some respect, should one really sit and make nonconstructive comments on forums like /. ? Either way, it makes no difference.

    31. Re:Yes but.. by FBeans · · Score: 1

      There is a different way, a way where all what you seek is possible.,,,

  7. Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by PortHaven · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Over the years I've knocked Microsoft quite a bit. But I have to say that after 2 years of using Windows 7 I am still happily pleased. I've had one crash with blue screen of death. And very few problems outside of trying to run iTunes.

    So let's be a bit fair. Heck, Windows 7 crashed less than my OS X experience of the same amount of time. Not saying it's perfect. But on decent hardware with good drivers, it's pretty darn good. And a lot better than anything Microsoft did in the past.

    1. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair: yes they are doing a great job lately !
      But they are not quite there yet... (imo)
      Aside from the technical aspect: they are still evil as far as I know, and we can hardly support evil companies right ?
      (World would be a better place without evil companies, greed, or money)

    2. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by mcrbids · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We only use money because, although it sucks unbelievably badly at helping us distribute scarce resources, it does so better than anything else we've been able to come up with.

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    3. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah, Windows 7 is great, Windows 8 isn't.

    4. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Over the years I've knocked Microsoft quite a bit. But I have to say that after 2 years of using Windows 7 I am still happily pleased. I've had one crash with blue screen of death. And very few problems outside of trying to run iTunes.

      So let's be a bit fair. Heck, Windows 7 crashed less than my OS X experience of the same amount of time. Not saying it's perfect. But on decent hardware with good drivers, it's pretty darn good. And a lot better than anything Microsoft did in the past.

      You've been lucky. It all depends on the drivers. I've had plenty of crashes - perhaps a few less than XP, but still not what you're describing.

    5. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by Max+Threshold · · Score: 0, Troll

      Call me when it's free.

    6. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A bad driver will crash any non-microkernel OS. Win7 is actually better than average since at least most video driver crashes are recoverable (though it can still be effectively unusable in practice if the driver consistently crashes a few seconds after it's [re]started).

      That said, I've seen zero issues with BSODs since I've started going for drivers to Windows Update first, and only falling back to downloading & installing them directly if WU can't find them. So far the only piece of hardware for which I needed to manually download a driver is my network printer.

    7. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by billcopc · · Score: 1

      Agreed whole-heartedly. Considering what little I do with my Mac besides simple web work and app development, 10.7 crashes all the time, and for really bizarre things like the Login screen freezing if I'm switching between user accounts with different power-saving options. I call Lion the Vista of Mac OS - unfinished, unpolished, and full of really stupid bugs. I remember Snow Leopard being a lot less finicky.

      Windows 7 has been rock solid since day one. Better than XP, uptimes measured in months, even on my gaming rig. Faster than Vista. I'd say they've done a hell of a great job, which is perhaps why people are so skeptical of Win8 with its radical changes. It could be another Vista trainwreck, which means we'll have to wait for Win9 before they get it right again.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    8. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by ThatsMyNick · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Try Windows 8 and you would take back any credit you give them for Windows 7.

    9. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree that we should give Microsoft some cred for stability ... but that new UI needs to be taken out the back and shot ... several times, just to make sure.

    10. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      W7 pretty much collapses when I connect a USB/Serial converter or similar lowlevel devices. I *know* its a poor driver issue, but it is still closed source and impossible to mend.

      That said, both OSX and Linux has their shares of shortcomings as well, so I pretty much need all three for different purposes.

    11. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by Clarious · · Score: 1

      I agree, Windows 7 is a very good OS and IMO, regarding to security GNU/Linux can learn a few things from them, like the MAC mechanism preventing keylog from knowing your administrator password (the UAC prompt has higher IL value), with most GNU/Linux distro any apps can sniff your typed root password. Maybe by using SELinux we can prevent this but I haven't seen any distro implements it yet.

    12. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by FBeans · · Score: 2

      I love how low people's standards are. Microsoft have a very easy job to please lots of people. Make it crash less. From such an expensive, and costly (in terms of money, time and compromising of morals and ideals) *I* expect better. Microsoft are a large company with lots of money, lots of employees and lots of skill and experience. As a consumer one should ask for more, expect only the best, and when a comapny doesn't deliver, one should speak up, demand improvements or go else where. Stop setting the bar so low.

    13. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by jawtheshark · · Score: 0

      Probably age. They started off as young enthousiast guys passionate of Linux, then life caught up with them and they noticed that the computing part of life takes less importance. Since Linux still (but not quite as much as in the past) requires some effort, they are right back in the arms of Mother Redmond.

      I do realize I'm a 6 digit UID too, but I'm fully on Linux .... I haven't got children yet, but I do have a wife and she considerably reduced my "quality computing time". I can only imagine with children: probably less than 30 minutes a day, on a good day.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    14. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by gtall · · Score: 1

      Is there a way to get a columns file view in MS file explorer thingy? I don't mean where the additional columns are attributes, I mean where the additional columns show you the next level down in the folder hierarchy from a selected folder in the left most view.

        I use Macs most of the time but periodically have to use a Windows 7 box. I find their file explorer thing irritating and am tired of clicking my way up and down a hierarchy of folders. And do not suggest the command line...arcane, misanthropic pile of excrement that it is.

    15. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by Robert+Zenz · · Score: 0

      ...like the MAC mechanism preventing keylog from knowing your administrator password (the UAC prompt has higher IL value), with most GNU/Linux distro any apps can sniff your typed root password.

      So, you finally need to type your/root password instead of just clicking a button? Is the default user account now finally not the admin? That would be an improvement.

    16. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by miknix · · Score: 1

      I'm glad to know. I don't use windows for about 10 years, at home and work all my boxes are Linux. The few times I booted Windows 7 to play games I always feel uncomfortable, Windows 7 is certainly very different from Windows XP which was the last Windows I used intensively. Though I currently don't use Windows 7 enough to even have a proper opinion about it, I can surely say that it never crashed (BOSD) and has been much stabler than what I recall Windows XP was.

      Though, what I really hate is the automatic updating system that decides to reboot even while I'm gaming. I also hate to wait (sometimes) more than 15 minutes during a boot/shutdown (it is annoying when you want to go to Linux and have to wait for Windows to shutdown) to let the Windows updates install. Other than that, I don't really like how the control panel and overall Windows menu functionality is organized, I feel it is directed to retarded people. However I do understand that most Windows userbase is not very tech savy.

    17. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by Teresita · · Score: 1

      You will be happy to know that Win8 renders the text of the Blue Screen of Death 33% faster than Win7, according to metrics obtained by PC Magazine.

    18. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by Ash+Vince · · Score: 0

      Try Windows 8 and you would take back any credit you give them for Windows 7.

      What a truly moronic statement.

      Just because a company produce a bad product you suddenly think a previous product is bad too by association even though you used to like it? That is not exactly a rational response.

      --
      I dont read /. to RTFA, I read /. to offend people in ignorance.
    19. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by ThatsMyNick · · Score: 1

      Nope, I am not taking away credits from Windows 7, but from Microsoft. Please read the GGPs post carefully, and my response (hell, read the title of these post carefully).

    20. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows originally ran on a 286, now we need an i7 with 6gb of memory, and 40gb to install it on. Sure, it may run better, but look at the bloat that came with it.

    21. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by notany · · Score: 1

      The only problem I see with this is the fact that graphics drivers and cards still have subtle bugs and "features" in them. Small things you don't realize in normal gaming, are really annoying in desktop UI. You don't notice if something is rendered temporarily one pixel left from what it should be while playing BF3 or video. But if you render web page or UI, that's visible. You want exactness from desktop. Graphics cards and their drivers have don't have that requirement as their first priority. DirectX 11.1 is added complexity and it's likely that it comes with a price.

      --
      Dyslexics have more fnu.
    22. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same reason anti-ms trolls have 3 digit UIDs.

    23. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by MtViewGuy · · Score: 1

      In fact, I consider Windows 7 to be the best version of Windows since Windows 2000 Professional--very stable and hard to bring down. I've had some problems with Google Chrome with the Norton Toolbar from Norton Internet Security 2012, but it appears Google has resolved this problem with the current version of Chrome and Norton may have fixed it with a new Norton Toolbar update originally intended for compatibility with the current version of Firefox.

    24. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by Clarious · · Score: 1

      Well, even if the user is the sole user with admin right, launched process still runs under with lower privilige than full full admin rights, those that need them will be asked by an UAC prompt. And any user who cares about his stuff will always use a password anyway.

    25. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously, can we give Microsoft some credit? ya right that's why i didnt upgrade to vista , and im still using NT5 beta 1 er windows xp
      crashing ? you get crashing?
      i use mine as a webserver and a ton of stuff and its online 24/7 for months at a time....
      YES i am a linux fan and go back to the mandrake 9.2 days when i started using it more heavy.
      I also have servers that run debian as well.

    26. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      regarding automatic updates you can with one check-box in control panel tell windows to ask you before downloading or installing updates that way it will not restart your PC while you are gaming, most of those "retarded people" you are referring to already know that so i am wondering how do you refer to yourself, for way control panel is organized i do agree it is very confusing, but it has one simple workaround, instead of opening control panel just press "start" button and start typing name of control panel setting you want to change (did not try Win8 so i do not know if same thing works in "metro quick search"

    27. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by PortHaven · · Score: 1

      I don't know, evil is relative. And all the crap Apple is pulling is starting to make me think Microsoft is the much maligned but nicer brother. *shudders*

      (Did I really say those words?)

    28. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by PortHaven · · Score: 1

      How about $40....that's the intro price for W8, and well...I am willing to pay a workman their wages and I think that is a very reasonable price if true.

    29. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by PortHaven · · Score: 1

      Wait...so we're judging an unreleased OS and damning it?

      Genius!!!

    30. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by PortHaven · · Score: 2

      I am sure a 286 will run the latest Linux GUI without a flaw.

      Oh, and look at what Mac needs to run today.

      Gee, this was an intelligent and useful post !=

    31. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by sootman · · Score: 1

      I will give them credit for making Windows 7 as good as it is--which is why I'm so pissed that they didn't focus on making it better for version 8, rather than the change-for-the-sake-of-change that we're seeing now. Look at what Apple did: when they added the iOS-like Launch Center, they didn't take away the Dock. In fact, Launch Center is 100% optional.

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    32. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by PortHaven · · Score: 1

      So what is the best? OS X which crashed more than Windows 7 does for me? Linux, which every machine I've ever installed it on has had driver issues and failed to run correctly (usually video in the 90's) and WiFi NDIS wrappers in the mid 2000's.

      Let's give Microsoft some cred where it's due. And knock them where they need to be knocked.

    33. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      your computer knowledge is limited and your skills are lacking. lol @ OSX crashing. Even bigger lol @ linux driver issues. Yep, sounds like a Windows user to me.

    34. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by FBeans · · Score: 1

      your computer knowledge is limited and your skills are lacking. lol @ OSX crashing. Even bigger lol @ linux driver issues. Yep, sounds like a Windows user to me.

      Thanks for the amazingly helpful comment.

      So what is the best?

      My point is, Just because something is less bad; it crashes fewer times (not that I agree based on my experience) , doesn't mean we should praising them. In the same way we shouldn't be praising thieves because they are not murderers. Lets give a company credit where it's due. Agreed. I'll wait here with my "Thank you, Microsoft" letter, when they meet *my* expectations, I will post it.

    35. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by Rhacman · · Score: 1

      I held out as long as I could but ended up buying a new PC with Vista on it a few months before Windows 7 came out. People still get all excited when someone mentions Vista but it has run smoothly for me in that time. I think I've gotten it to bluescreen once when I was messing around with some drivers that I shouldn't have been. I play games on it and lately Rift hasn't been working too well with my video card however each time the video driver messes up Vista manages to restart the driver without bluescreening or interfering with my other applications. If the features of Windows 8 are enough to entice me I'll probably skip 7. If however it looks like dodging Metro is going to be too much of a pain or cause to many side effects I may just upgrade to Windows 7.

      --
      Account -> Discussions -> Disable Sigs
    36. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by Bigbutt · · Score: 1

      I get blue screens pretty much daily but I blame the crappy ATI drivers more than Windows 7.

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
    37. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by Alex+Belits · · Score: 0

      More like bought accounts.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    38. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by ThatsMyNick · · Score: 1

      Unreleased? Have you been sleeping under a rock?

    39. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      What are they worth? 5$ I prefer keeping it...

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    40. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Has Microsoft hardware accelerated file operations?

      I haven't seen such slow and kludgy file operations since my atari 400's tape cassette unit started dying.

      d

    41. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      All the microsoft shills I've tangled with so far have had seven-digit IDs, on their newly created accounts.

      My experience of Windows 7 as compared to XP is much like PortHaven's, so whether he's a shill or not, he's got a good point. Hell, even Vista is more reliable for me than XP. Then again, anyone who's tried XP any time recently knows it's gotten more stable since its release, too.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    42. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by ZosX · · Score: 1

      I've been using windows 7 since the release candidate. I had a bunch of blue screens early on due to bad drivers, but now the drivers have stabilized on 64-bit and a blue screen is pretty rare. On this new laptop I have yet to see one. Though I am seeming to have latency issues and part of it is the sound card drivers suck and Im stuck with the acer drivers or some other oem's drivers that may or may not be compatible with my chip. I have it mostly sorted, but I shouldn't have to deal with this crap in 2012. Installing windows should be like click....click....done. Having to spend hours troubleshooting awful drivers and tracking down better ones wasn't fun 10 years ago and its really sucking now. The funny part. The microsoft supplied drivers are perfect. Too bad they don't have the dolby processor built in that makes the speakers not sound really quiet and awful. Oh well, fallout 3 plays smoothly and lightroom/photoshop run well. That's all that matters. :)

    43. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by Ash+Vince · · Score: 1

      Nope, I am not taking away credits from Windows 7, but from Microsoft. Please read the GGPs post carefully, and my response (hell, read the title of these post carefully).

      I do and I did.

      Try Windows 8 and you would take back any credit you give them for Windows 7.

      Why would you take back credit for some thing someone did 2 years ago based on them making a fuck up now? That is like saying I would take away you bachelor degree simply because you failed your doctorate.

      --
      I dont read /. to RTFA, I read /. to offend people in ignorance.
    44. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by ThatsMyNick · · Score: 1

      Nope, I am not taking away credits from Windows 7, but from Microsoft. Please read the GGPs post carefully, and my response (hell, read the title of these post carefully).

      I do and I did.

      And now read your comment. Ok I realize I am trolling now

      Try Windows 8 and you would take back any credit you give them for Windows 7.

      Why would you take back credit for some thing someone did 2 years ago based on them making a fuck up now? That is like saying I would take away you bachelor degree simply because you failed your doctorate.

      A simpler example would be multiple tests contributing credit to the same course (I feel this is more similar to Win7, Win8 than bachelors and doctorate). I am choosing a model, where I can give negative marks to a test, because it failed so bad. So when I sum these two tests, I get a zero. You may not agree with me that negatives marks can be awarded, but I would say its more like real world (Its like money. If I pay you do two paint jobs, you do the first one very well, and the second so bad that you damaged the walls or something; I would obviously reduce the money you would get for the first job).

    45. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by Ash+Vince · · Score: 1

      . If I pay you do two paint jobs, you do the first one very well, and the second so bad that you damaged the walls or something; I would obviously reduce the money you would get for the first job

      That is why I would demand the money for the first job, after the first job was complete :)

      --
      I dont read /. to RTFA, I read /. to offend people in ignorance.
    46. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by cavebison · · Score: 1

      I have Win 7 on my PC but XP still on my laptop. The one main thing I really loathe about Win 7 is Windows Explorer. The file explorer. I had to make sure all my folders were set to "General Items", so it at least didn't slow down too much. I *hate* how backspace is now "Back" instead of "parent folder". I *never* used the Back button on XP, but there was always a parent folder button for me. ALT-UpArrow is a PITA.

      I can't get rid of the "tool bar" or whatever it's called, with the "Organise" and "Include in Library" buttons - why it's not hide-able is beyond me. I never use it, it just wastes a lot of space and looks hideous anyway. CTRL-I used to open Favourites in XP. That was useful. There doesn't seem to be a shortcut to open the Navigation Pane in Win 7. That's just retarded.

      Right-clicking the Windows Explorer window icon (top left) in XP used to give me the same context menu options as if I'd right-clicked the folder itself. That's gone in Win 7. I've no idea how to get the folder context items, apart from going to the parent folder and doing it from there. You'd think you'd be able to right-click the clickable "breadcrumb" path items, but no, that does sweet F.A. as well.

      Basically Windows Explorer in Windows 7 is brain damaged and one of the main reasons I still love using XP on my laptop.

      And don't get me started on the Windows 7 Control Panel. Suddenly it's alphabetically sorted *across the page* and works like pages of a *web application*, as if suddenly the UI paradigm of web apps is considered superior to opening separate applications with their own special window. You know, like using Windows. I mean seriously... when you want to flip around the Control Panel apps, you don't want to fuck around with the BACK button like a fucking web application because someone in MS thought it was "the hip thing to do".

    47. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I love how high your standards are, you either live off of FOSS and deal with having to fix and compile lots of gear yourself and deal with umpteen gazillion unfinished Alpha software that comes as a result of a mainly DIY community.. don't get me wrong, I love the concept of Linux and FOSS, but move from Windows to *nix or *nix-like and the first thing you will do is go hunting for substitute applications and find a shedload of broken or GUI-less 'things' that are less appealing to parse a command for in bash than trying to read 50 shades of grey translated by a fluent speaker of legalese.

      The other option, OSX, the bastard child of BSD and NEXTstep, is broken, fundamentally, in a different way in nearly every iteration I have encounteredand installed on my Mac. Have a look at Apple's own forums for tales of Snow Leopard's memory leaks, Lion starting up permanently in safe mode because their own damn wireless kext driver is corrupted every time you install it, Finders symlink adding crash that has existed since 10.2, Logic's overload bug and internal freezes that have existed since v6. And this problem is multiplied by the fact that the company expects you to be a complete moron to buy their product so when you pay for technical support all they can tell you is 'reinstall reinstall reinstall'. I mean sure, that's great if you are talking to my grandma, but you would feel a lot better about talking to them if you didn't realize that they say that because they (be it 'Genius' or customer support 'technician' at the end of the phone) know less than you about their own OS than you.

      So yes, Windows is flawed. Its not even that pretty (but then how OSX can bee seen as pretty in all of its two tone glory is beyond me) but it works, it can be configured to be almost as bulletproof as stripped down linux, but with all the benefits of wider application support, actual options when it come to customization, and a consistent userbase that isn't going anywhere anytime soon, guaranteeing it a future. The funny thing is that Windows never crashes because of windows, it crashes because of lazy, money scamming driver coders and terrible registry management... both products of the developers that we love. Windows though, somehow copes with this, and has proven to be far more bulletproof than OSX imo. (amusingly, as far as drivers are concerned, Ubuntu really shines. If it works, it works, it may have limited functionality but it never crashes.)

    48. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by PortHaven · · Score: 1

      OS X does crash....

      And Linux has had driver issues (it had it when I had my Nvidia Riva TNT card, and more recently when my wife's wifi card in her laptop was only supported via NDIS wrapper. And repeatedly disconnected.)

      Oh, and yes, I am a Windows user. A lot of the software I use is available on Windows, it works, and well...I have had very very few problems with Windows 7. So give me a reason why I should spend more money on OS X or expend time fussing with drivers on Linux? And not be able to run a lot of productivity apps I use?

    49. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by PortHaven · · Score: 1

      Um, no....I have not.

      Can you please show me where I can get the official commercially released finished version of Windows 8 please.

      Thank you....

    50. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by PortHaven · · Score: 1

      I just want to iterate, that I've been on Slashdot for years...close to a decade at this point.

      As for a shill, I have editorial articles bashing Microsoft. I am quite aggressive in my view that shareholders need to oust Steve Balmer. I have been extremely critical of much that Microsoft does.

      But I give credit where credit is due namely Xbox 360 & Windows 7 was an amazing step for Microsoft in regards to reliability, uptime and usability.

      And yes, I am very fearful that Windows 8 will undue all the progress.

      But seriously, I just got my first W7 blue screen of death about 2 weeks ago. After two years of use and abuse. To me, it's stupid to bash for merely bashing sake.

      I've watched people embrace Apple's war on Flash with joy, not realizing they're being led by the gestapo into internment camps where all the software is in a closed controlled environment. Where the idea of being able to simply write and run code on your own hardware is forbidden. Is this sacrifice really worth getting rid of Flash?

      But Slashdotters leapt for joy, when the real reason...Apple doesn't want any 3rd party runtime that would break it's hegemony of application control. Which for the first time nets an OS developer 30% of EVERY app sold.

      Drug lords don't have it so sweet as Apple.

    51. Re:Seriously, can we give Microsoft some cred... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      To me, it's stupid to bash for merely bashing sake.

      Beyond that, making stupid arguments detracts from the numerous valid arguments as to why Microsoft is evil :)

      Drug lords don't have it so sweet as Apple.

      Well, the courts appear to mostly be on Apple's side, that's a bonus.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  8. Re:Hardware-Accelerated Crashing by Doctor_Jest · · Score: 2

    Here's to hoping they've got their driver-related ducks in a row... methinks they don't... at least not for everything. So while one person is getting sunburned eyes from the speed of the Metro interface, there are a few others who watch their computers implode in a steaming pile of pastel shit.

    In other words... I have reservations about how well this will work, and since this is Microsoft... You'll get full hardware acceleration in Windows 9.

    --
    It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
  9. Re:really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LOL! thanks AC!

  10. Fighting the Wrong Battlefield by Sasayaki · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Software has dramatically outpaced hardware over the last decade. The lowest end PCs available for purchase can easily run Windows 7, especially if given a few extra gigs of RAM (by far the cheapest component) or given an SSD (by far the slowest component).

    End users will never, ever notice this speed because I've never waited for Windows 7 to render text. Ever.

    By all means, software speedups are more than welcome and it's good that Microsoft have avoided the typical bloat that many have suspect Intel pushes, but the most important battlefields by far for Windows 8 acceptance will be stability, ease of use, compatibility with legacy applications and hardware support.

    Stability is in doubt if there's big changes, which there looks like there will be.

    Ease of use... Metro has been copping a lot of flak from the technical user camp, but we don't know what Joe User will think of it yet. In any event, it's a lot of retraining, which is not a good sign.

    Legacy application and hardware support will probably be equal to Windows 7, with a loss in application support and a gain in hardware support.

    TL;DR: Well done, but I hope this isn't *all* Microsoft have when it comes to Windows 8.

    --
    Check out my sci-fi book "Lacuna" at http://goo.gl/MVxX8
    1. Re:Fighting the Wrong Battlefield by Gaygirlie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      End users will never, ever notice this speed because I've never waited for Windows 7 to render text. Ever.

      You do realize that the less time the CPU or GPU has to spend doing something the more time it can spend idling, thereby consuming less power and producing less heat, so even if the end-result is not visible to the eye it is still a beneficial effect nevertheless. Especially on mobile devices any improvements to battery-life directly translate to end-user satisfaction and better useability.

    2. Re:Fighting the Wrong Battlefield by WaffleMonster · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You do realize that the less time the CPU or GPU has to spend doing something the more time it can spend idling, thereby consuming less power and producing less heat, so even if the end-result is not visible to the eye it is still a beneficial effect nevertheless. Especially on mobile devices any improvements to battery-life directly translate to end-user satisfaction and better useability.

      I'm not convinced. The Nvidia GPU in my computer is constantly consuming dozens of watts by itself while it sits idle doing nothing. The ATI GPU I had before that was actually worse.

      Mobile GPUs have much different characteristics yet still keeping more silicon than necessary lit even if reasonably gated does not seem to me to be worth reduced cost vs any insignificant additional CPU offload during the *small* amount of time actual work is being performed contrasted to cost of normal 2d acceleration with less area lit up.

      An analogy is building a power budget or power usage spreadsheet for your home. You count what is always on or what is on for a good amount of time. The microwave uses a kw or more while on but only for a few minutes per day. For most people it is not worth your time to include the Microwave as an item in your budget.

    3. Re:Fighting the Wrong Battlefield by epyT-R · · Score: 3, Insightful

      you mean hardware has outpaced software, right? this is true, though instead of providing unique, useful and NEW functionality in a sane footprint, today's software is bloated up with a bunch of 'experience' aesthetics and rearrangements that, in many cases, hinder workflow for the sake of looks. proper software is functional first, intuitive next, and pretty last.

    4. Re:Fighting the Wrong Battlefield by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I'm not convinced. The Nvidia GPU in my computer is constantly consuming dozens of watts by itself while it sits idle doing nothing.

      So does mine. But it actually uses hundreds of watts when it actually does something. The more time a computer spends in a truly idle state the better IMO.

    5. Re:Fighting the Wrong Battlefield by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well this sounds nice but as with proccess scheduling: when you chage the state to offen you will not notice diference as big as it may seems based on common sense. The idea is to keep GPU ide for some time (same as proccess scheduler need to be called from time to time not to offen but not to rare aswell). I am a bit curious how OS developers do this these days.

      But based on Microsoft bullshit marketing for years they promised some nice innovation in windows 7. I believe It was something like mikrokernel or at least new faster kernel not vista kernel glued a little with oil to produce less the metal sound of pain. The same bullshit marketing was telling something about new file system first in vista and later in windows 7. Yead i know I am na negative about this news.

    6. Re:Fighting the Wrong Battlefield by StripedCow · · Score: 2

      Software has dramatically outpaced hardware over the last decade.

      Yet, we're still waiting for the ultimate programming language for multicore systems.

      --
      If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
    7. Re:Fighting the Wrong Battlefield by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not convinced.

      If you have a large amount of data in a big array, it will always be faster to process (by a few orders of magnitude) using the GPU, rather than the CPU. The latest nvidia chips support a form of hyrid SLI with the Intel GPU, meaning it only fires up when you need it (and ATI have equivalent functionality in their GPU's). You'll struggle to find a GPU on current laptops with the characteristics you describe. Having a GPU around to cope with blu-ray playback and image processing makes a huge amount of sense for the vast majority of people.

    8. Re:Fighting the Wrong Battlefield by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Erlang

    9. Re:Fighting the Wrong Battlefield by SpryGuy · · Score: 4, Informative

      but I hope this isn't *all* Microsoft have when it comes to Windows 8.

      Of course not.

      Dramatically faster install, reinstall speeds along with new refresh/reset functions for fast snapshotting and reverting to snapshots.

      Dramatically faster boot/sleep/hybernate/resume/shutdown times.

      New "Storage Spaces", a dynamic pooled storage feature.

      Built in Hyper-V virtualization support.

      New syncing and roaming support (use same login on different machines, get the same settings, metro apps, and data).

      Integrated SkyDrive cloud storage support.

      Integrated USB3.0 support

      New faster/better networking support for mobile devices, including support for metered access and monitoring and smart network switching (won't download updates on metered connection, for example).

      Better memory use via resusing redundant memory, smaller working set, smaller set of active services running.

      Improved integrated security and malware protection, as well as more and better protections throughout the OS (better address randomization, etc).

      Improved multi-file-copy/move experience through the UI, including improved conflict resolution.

      Native support for creating/mounting .iso and .vhd files in Windows Explorer

      More and better language and keyboard support.

      Improved PowerShell scripting support.

      New "File History" feature (easier to use, more "Time Machine"-like file backups and restores)

      Improved Task Manager and resource monitoring in general.

      --

      - Spryguy
      There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
    10. Re:Fighting the Wrong Battlefield by dirtyhippie · · Score: 1

      Interesting assertion. Too bad reality begs to differ. 10 years ago (per the wayback machine), dell's website was advertising its dimension 4500, a desktop machine featuring maximum specs of: a (UP) 2.8GHz pentium 4 with a 533MHz memory bus, memory expandable to 1GB (with then-impossible to find dimms), AGP 4X, and a PCI expansion bus. Today you'd be hard pressed to find a machine with less than 1GB offered as a minimum configuration, a far faster processor with 2-4 times as many cores, faster memory and expansion busses, and a far faster graphics interface. And let's not forget how much PATA sucked, let alone the availability of SSD disks now. What is fundamentally different about today's software compared to that of 10 years ago that makes you think it's dramatically outpaced this?

      I'm not aware of any dramatic improvements to the kinds of things people do at the OS level during that time frame. Just because most hardware specs aren't growing exponentially any more doesn't mean they aren't growing at a significant clip.

    11. Re:Fighting the Wrong Battlefield by Kjella · · Score: 1

      proper software is functional first, intuitive next, and pretty last.

      A Ferrari is not a very functional car, it's only got room for one passenger, practically no luggage, it has a crappy MPG, high maintenance and insurance and if you're staying to the posted speed limits you're not actually getting anywhere that much faster. You buy it for the looks and the feel and the power which makes it a helluva fun play toy to have, but you're far more likely to use it for a slow cruise down impress-the-ladies boulevard or a dick measuring acceleration contest than measuring the seconds you saved on your commute. Same with the clothes that you wear, people go by many other characteristics than the functional ones like textile strength, washing, durability, insulation, even for sports gear it's not just about functioning but to look good at the same time. And I certainly don't measure my food just by nutritional value, it better look tasty as well.

      Of course everything has to be functional "enough", it doesn't matter how good the car is otherwise if it can't get you from A to B. But people don't want it stripped down to just being functional like a rally car. They actually like their pretty leather seats and everything that makes it feel good, look good and make it enjoyable to drive. The same is true of computers too, maybe it's not the most functional way of doing it but it works well enough and people like the shiny. You could tell people that they shouldn't, but well.... if I had the money, I'd still take the Ferrari hands down. I'd probably have a "functional" car though, but I'd be trying to use it as little as possible and only when I need it.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    12. Re:Fighting the Wrong Battlefield by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All of those points are moot.. There is no start button, therefore, Windows 8 = bad....

    13. Re:Fighting the Wrong Battlefield by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trying configuring power saving modes then. Intel, NV and AMD have them for all their remotely modern GPUs.

    14. Re:Fighting the Wrong Battlefield by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      you missed the point.. my list is a descending priority. most importantly, software needs to work correctly, then its interface needs to maximize workflow, then finally, the interface should have reasonable aesthetics. it's possible to achieve all three, and my gripe with modern software is that a lot of it prioritizes the least important aspect at the cost of the first two..

      ergonomics (driver + handling) and good technical design are the most important factors in a performance car.. they make the difference between wanting to drive it regularly, and tolerating it because it's a cool, fast car. ..and of course, most importantly, the car has to work reliably. what good is a cool, fast, ergonomic car that's in the shop all the time when you want to drive it?

      In the case of software, the point is to get work done. if the interface is clunky or cluttered up with tons of useless space gobbling objects and animations, and, it's missing critical flexibility for the sake of newb intolerance, it's not terribly functional. Now, there is a niche for this kind of software, but pushing this as a default for everything (as is the trend), is a terrible idea. It's ok to expect people to rise up a little. ..or at least it used to be.

      I don't have an issue with sane defaults that work for most people, but I just don't get the antipathy towards the 'advanced' and 'settings' menus these days.

    15. Re:Fighting the Wrong Battlefield by rant64 · · Score: 1

      the less time the CPU or GPU has to spend doing something the more time it can spend idling

      It also enables more complex graphics on a higher display resolution without sacrificing performance or battery life. Efficiency savings don't always translate to devices that consume less (Jevons paradox).

    16. Re:Fighting the Wrong Battlefield by UtterCoward · · Score: 1

      I've installed the Windows 8 Preview on a VHD on my elderly laptop that runs Windows 7 moderately well, and when I boot to Win 8, I tend to stay there for long periods of time. I generally go straight to the desktop, as I am there for Visual Studio, not the apps, and there is a tangible improvement in the speed and responsiveness of the system. It's a joy to use. The technology-world-at-large seems to have hyper-focused on Metro and is missing the point that it is a tremendously-import OS in all regards. Personally, I've only used a handful of the new features and improvements that you list, but I'm already sold on it.

  11. Now you can fry eggs on gpu not only while gaming by S3D · · Score: 1

    As side benefit you computer double as heater as soon as it turned on.

  12. Didn't Fedora already use the "faster jpegs" line? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
  13. LET THE PAIN BEGIN! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In Gnome,(Meacity) and other xwindow managers use of composite extentions and other stuff has been long and painful, full of fuck ups.
    Something tells me pain for windows users has just began!

    1. Re:LET THE PAIN BEGIN! by Gaygirlie · · Score: 2

      You're comparing apples and oranges. Compositing managers do not render the contents of the windows.

    2. Re:LET THE PAIN BEGIN! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, so when you have wobbly windows under compiz, it totally rendered as usual. SURE! Especially with blur and other 3d effects. All in pseudo 3d, just usual 2d stuff.

    3. Re:LET THE PAIN BEGIN! by Gaygirlie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Right, so when you have wobbly windows under compiz, it totally rendered as usual. SURE! Especially with blur and other 3d effects. All in pseudo 3d, just usual 2d stuff.

      Compiz handles rendering the whole window AFTER the window's contents has already been rendered by other subsystems. Compiz has nothing to do with the rendering of the elements inside the window itself, like e.g. in GTK+ - applications GTK+ handles the rendering of the contents. The article in question here, however, talks about rendering those contents and it has nothing to do with compositing, ergo your comparison with compositing managers is pointless.

    4. Re:LET THE PAIN BEGIN! by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      Can't wait for the fallout in April next year when Ubuntu ships Wayland as the default display technology in 13.04 Randy Rhinoceros. :)

  14. Light on actual details by Gaygirlie · · Score: 2

    There's plenty of sections like e.g. the one about memory utilization where the author tells about various situations the devs have been benchmarking and why, but then ends bluntly with "Measuring memory usage across many types of apps and these various scenarios has helped us further optimize DirectX and the display drivers." without actually describing how or what they did. There is similarly no mention whatsoever about the devs improving performance for GDI-based applications; all they talk about is DirectX and/or Metro. With regards to e.g. "Improving geometry rendering performance" we find this gem: "For Windows 8, our improvements in this area have primarily focused on delivering high-performance implementations of HTML5 Canvas and SVG technologies for use in Metro style apps, and webpages viewed with Internet Explorer 10." which to me seems like saying that non-Metro applications won't really see any benefit from this at all. I may be interpreting it wrong, I admit, but it's hard to say without any more details.

    1. Re:Light on actual details by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      IE10 HTML5 implementation is built on Direct2D, and ditto for Metro apps (both HTML5 and XAML based). So I'd expect any D2D-based app to see those improvements - e.g. Firefox.

    2. Re:Light on actual details by gbjbaanb · · Score: 4, Informative

      no, you're not interpreting it wrong.. non-Metro stuff will not see any of these improvements.

      Ars did a much better piece about it.

      There's a nice technical blog about how bad WPF is for rendering stuff, and how Silverlight is even worse (most Silverlight rendering is done via the CPU). Fun reading.

  15. Let's be realistic by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 5, Funny

    To be fair, a Commodore 64 could render the Metro interface at a reasonable speed. The advantage of changing to an interface that looks like it is from the 80s or 90s is that you don't have to push around a lot of pixels or do fancy 3D tricks to make it work.

    When they finally retire the old non-Metro UI and just have the full-screen interface, I wonder if they will rename the product from Microsoft Windows to Microsoft Window. The tagline: there can be only one (program onscreen).

    1. Re:Let's be realistic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The static interface, yes. But Metro is extremely animation heavy, thats where the acceleration is useful.

      Compare Office 2010 versus 2013. The differences in use of animation is huge. (And GPU acceleration is used here)

    2. Re:Let's be realistic by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      so instead of instant feedback, we get to watch a song and dance after every click.. can't wait.

    3. Re:Let's be realistic by FBeans · · Score: 1

      Another brain fart from MS it seems. User Interface How can a person interacts with the system. It's *all* about usability, speed... etc etc (We all know this crap) Microsoft release a new OS, and concentrate all their efforts on bells and whistles. Then expect a pat on the back when they make those bells move better and those whistles render more quickly.... Discussing windows 8 is tiresome.

    4. Re:Let's be realistic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A FUCKEN MEN...

      Welcome to Window 3.1: DOS in a pretty clown suit.

    5. Re:Let's be realistic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Humor aside, a few counter points: First, Metro isn't just plain text on a solid background; it is supposed to incorporate animation almost everywhere. So yes, modern hardware and GPUs are desirable. Second, while you get full marks for humor about the "single app at once" thing, Microsoft is actually leapfrogging Apple on that score, since you will be able to view two apps at once (count 'em, kids) in Metro mode. That still doesn't answer the question of why somebody can't do "N" assuming they have a large enough screen, but anyway...

    6. Re:Let's be realistic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows One?

    7. Re:Let's be realistic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, you've made my day! Microsoft Window is my new buzzword

    8. Re:Let's be realistic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      best comment in this whole thread

  16. Fixing Office 2010? by backwardMechanic · · Score: 1

    The only application that runs painfully slowly on my Windows machine is Office 2010 (try Word with track changes enabled). The other stuff is actually quite snappy. Is this another case of MS modifying Windows to fix Office?

    1. Re:Fixing Office 2010? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Closed source software on closed source OS.
      What did you expect?

    2. Re:Fixing Office 2010? by backwardMechanic · · Score: 1

      Until there is an alternative to Solidworks and CST Microwave Studio under Linux, I'm stuck here.As I'm forced to use Windows, and everybody around me uses MS Office, I might as well use it too. Sad but true.

    3. Re:Fixing Office 2010? by BitZtream · · Score: 0

      I suppose your argument is that OO.org is 'better' and that Linux is superior because they are OSS, rather than they do the job I need them to do better, correct?

      Go back to using a screwdriver to hammer a nail into your tire.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  17. pwned faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Faster to fall to viruses, worms, trojans, etc?

  18. Newer Dell laptops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    might restore your faith in windows crashing.

    1. Re:Newer Dell laptops by PortHaven · · Score: 1

      I have a Dell 1745....very few problems outside of Skype and iTunes.

      That said, I just put in a Samsung SSD & re-installed Windows 7...wow...it's almost like I bought a new machine.

  19. Speed for all apps by caywen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Jesus, these initial comments bore the hell out of me.

    Here's the way I see it: Microsoft has finally gotten off their asses and recognized that efficiency really does matter when dealing with power efficient mobile GPU's. Given that Metro's ethos is stark simplicity, it'll be entertaining to watch how developers exploit the new capabilities. If the result is silky smooth navigation in nearly all apps, that'll be a big win. If the result is a rebirth of gradients, glows, glass, and other crap, I'll be pretty disappointed.

    Hats off to Microsoft for focusing not just on Metro speed, but speed for all apps.

    1. Re:Speed for all apps by billcopc · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Dude, get out. This is 2012. All the intelligent commenters have fucked off already. If you ever find one, please be a sport and send up a flare so I can find them too.

      I bet most of the people still here weren't even born when MS-bashing was still cool.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    2. Re:Speed for all apps by epyT-R · · Score: 3, Insightful

      fuck animations.. they're just a song and dance the user has to wait for EVERY time he clicks something. that metro menu is an abomination. all that work just to start an application?

    3. Re:Speed for all apps by gmhowell · · Score: 0

      Dude, get out. This is 2012. All the intelligent commenters have fucked off already.

      You're trying way too hard to prove your point.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    4. Re:Speed for all apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it'll be entertaining to watch how developers exploit the new capabilities

      #ifdef WINDOWS8
       
      // I haven't got time to rewrite this again, so I've inserted a dirty hack to make it work

      #endif

    5. Re:Speed for all apps by Shanoyu · · Score: 0

      get out newbie

    6. Re:Speed for all apps by cavebison · · Score: 1

      If the result is silky smooth navigation in nearly all apps

      Unless all the apps you run are games, when have you not seen "smooth navigation" in Windows applications? I have XP on my laptop and the only time I have to wait for an application to do something, whether it's Office or Visual Studio or Photoshop, is when it's accessing the hard disk.

      One exception is Adobe Lightroom, but that's because its stupid UI spends half the time trying to look fancy instead of just doing what I want it to do.

  20. Hardware-Accelerated Boobs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What? Boob jobs now run Windows?

  21. Re:Now you can fry eggs on gpu not only while gami by Gaygirlie · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Are you trying to imply rendering things in less time than before and more efficiently with a GPU produces more heat than the previous method of using more time to render the same thing less efficiently on the CPU? You might wish to rethink that.

  22. Who cares... by TheRealGrogan · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Those areas aren't really where hardware acceleration is important. We've got overpowered CPUs with cores just waiting for jobs.

    Why would I care if text renders in 100 microseconds or 300? There has always been some 2D acceleration for text and scrolling and such. Not everything has to be a video game with graphical effects.

    As for DirectX 11.1, just fuck off. Very few games even bother to overlay a few DirectX 10 or 11 effects for those who qualify. No, they use DirectX 9, because Microsoft has alienated previous versions of Windows (and the consoles use DX9 too of course)

    A boring, crippled user interface with a seriously insulting attempt to lock people into their application store. THAT is what I see in WIndows 8. I very much despise it and I will actively fight against it.

    1. Re:Who cares... by Gaygirlie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Those areas aren't really where hardware acceleration is important. We've got overpowered CPUs with cores just waiting for jobs.

      Enlighten us, what areas are more important then?

      Why would I care if text renders in 100 microseconds or 300?

      You may not care, but anyone with a mobile device with a battery will; the less time the machine spends active the more time it can spend in idle which quite obviously results in less heat and power consumption.

    2. Re:Who cares... by TheRealGrogan · · Score: 0

      Your mobile device is going to have graphics capabilities that will matter for this? A laptop with higher end graphics will use more battery to render your text and generate more heat. If you want to be "enlightened" go take a physics course.

      Do you seriously think you're going to be done with it faster because it renders text a few milliseconds faster?

      Even if it does somehow benefit you, why should your usage take preference over mine? I am not interested in mobile devices. One size doesn't fit all, and that's what Microsoft is attempting to do here. It's not going to work.

      My point was, they are bragging about crap that is of small benefit compared to the negative aspects of Windows 8.

    3. Re:Who cares... by Zouden · · Score: 3, Funny

      Do you seriously think you're going to be done with it faster because it renders text a few milliseconds faster?

      That is the generally-accepted definition of the word "faster".

      --
      "A week in the lab saves an hour in the library"
    4. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Bla bla bla bitch bitch bitch.
      How is them improving rendering speeds of jpegs negativly impacting your usage of windows?
      Complain about the idiotic user interface sure, but using the available hardware in a more efficient way is good.
      Of course in mobile devices the screen is one of the most power hungry devices, so I'm not sure if this will save all that much power.

    5. Re:Who cares... by Gaygirlie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Your mobile device is going to have graphics capabilities that will matter for this?

      Try to find a SINGLE modern GPU that cannot e.g. accelerate Direct2D or DirectWrite. Those have been around for atleast a decade now. So the answer to your question is quite obviously "yes." The functionality that relies on DX11.1 won't be accelerated for now, but it won't take long before the next-generation Intel and AMD - processors will ship with DX11.1 - compatible integrated GPUs at which point even DX11.1 - based acceleration will matter.

      A laptop with higher end graphics will use more battery to render your text and generate more heat.

      Why do you assume you need a high-end GPU for this?

      If you want to be "enlightened" go take a physics course.

      I could also suggest computer graphics theory courses to you.

      Do you seriously think you're going to be done with it faster because it renders text a few milliseconds faster?

      Usually doing something faster DOES indeed mean it being over in less time. I have no idea what other kinds of "faster" you know of.

      Even if it does somehow benefit you, why should your usage take preference over mine?

      You're complaining about performance improvements. That's like complaining about your new car going faster and using less gas than the previous one.

      My point was, they are bragging about crap that is of small benefit compared to the negative aspects of Windows 8.

      Then you should have complained about that, but no, you complain about increased performance.

    6. Re:Who cares... by TheRealGrogan · · Score: 0

      Some of you sure are acting obtuse here. Rendering text a few milliseconds faster isn't going to translate into finishing your work faster. I doubt you can even wrap your heads around the actual time differences involved. You'll use the device for the same amount of time anyway.

      No, I'm not complaining about performance improvements, dullards, I am complaining about the rest of it and I am neither appeased nor impressed by hardware accelerated text rendering that will not benefit me (or most people) in a meaningful way. I think the power saving arguments are tripe as well. I believe the opposite will occur.

      Enjoy the regressions in usability and stay impressed by trivial things.

    7. Re:Who cares... by Gaygirlie · · Score: 1

      Some of you sure are acting obtuse here. Rendering text a few milliseconds faster isn't going to translate into finishing your work faster.

      And? No one even claimed that, so you're again complaining about something that hasn't even been an issue in the first place. You just keep jumping all over the place with your arguments.

      No, I'm not complaining about performance improvements, dullards, I am complaining about the rest of it

      Look at your first post here: you can quite clearly see yourself saying that that isn't where hardware acceleration is important, and when asked where it is then you completely avoid answering the question. You also complain about not caring if the text renders in 100ms vs. 300ms, which quite clearly is a complaint about not caring about performance-improvements. And here you are, saying you're not actually complaining about the things you were complaining. If you don't like the UI-changes to Windows 8 then you should just learn to say that. Even better if you were actually capable of forming coherent posts where you explain your reasons for not liking it, then someone might actually care.

      I think the power saving arguments are tripe as well. I believe the opposite will occur.

      Feel free to live in your deluded imagination. If, however, you feel adventurous and actually wish to verify your claim you can simply install a Linux-distro and accelerated drivers for X, charge battery to 100% and use the computer until the battery goes empty, then re-charge and disable Xv, XRender and EXA acceleration and see how long it lasts. You'll very quickly realize how much of a difference accelerating things on a GPU does.

      Enjoy the regressions in usability and stay impressed by trivial things.

      Rather unimpressive attempt at an ad-hominem attack.

    8. Re:Who cares... by ihavnoid · · Score: 1

      - Windows 8 is targeted to be a mobile OS that happens to be usable as a desktop OS.
      - On mobile devices, transistors are cheap, clock frequency isn't. So yes, your mobile device will have all those graphics capability for that.

      Now, think again whether what Microsoft did makes sense.

    9. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As for DirectX 11.1, just fuck off

      I'd prefer to use DirectX 11 compute shaders, with Pix, than say ........ OpenCL *maybe* (although obviously that doesn't have a pix equivalent).

      Very few games even bother to overlay a few DirectX 10 or 11 effects for those who qualify

      That's because DirectX 11 adds features that are intended for general purpose computing, eg compute shaders. Some of us actually use those features for things other than games....

    10. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But your CPU will only use less power and produce less heat, because instead of running the GPU in low power mode to move a few pixels around, it will now run in fully accelerated mode.

      I guess you've never used a PC where you could actually hear the fans speed up when 3D acceleration becomes active. Otherwise you'd realize they speed up because more heat needs to be moved away, and that heat is the result of using more power.

    11. Re:Who cares... by Gaygirlie · · Score: 1

      But your CPU will only use less power and produce less heat, because instead of running the GPU in low power mode to move a few pixels around, it will now run in fully accelerated mode.

      I guess you've never used a PC where you could actually hear the fans speed up when 3D acceleration becomes active. Otherwise you'd realize they speed up because more heat needs to be moved away, and that heat is the result of using more power.

      You're comparing the rendering of a visually complex computer game with complex geometric shapes, hundreds of megabytes of textures, antialiasing, pixel and vertex shaders and so on to.... rendering lines, triangles, rectangles and fonts. Think about that a little bit more.

      Now, finished thinking yet? Well, do you use Windows 7? Is your GPU fan running at max speed at all times? No? Then quite obviously what you're describing is not happening and will not happen; Aero is already using GPU - acceleration, Firefox and Internet Explorer use Direct2D and DirectWrite for GPU - acceleration, Flash-player uses GPU - acceleration, and yet even you mention that the fan only speeds up when a more demanding task is thrown at it. The tasks discussed here are definitely not demanding and could already be handled by GPUs a decade ago.

    12. Re:Who cares... by smallfries · · Score: 1

      Your logic is flawed:

      the less time the machine spends active the more time it can spend in idle which quite obviously results in less heat and power consumption.

      The caveat is that power consumption must not increase during the shorter period of operation for this to be true. In the case that we are offloading work from the CPU to the GPU then it is not only the length of time that is important, but the relative power consumption of the two devices while drawing the text. It may be that offloading the text rendering to the GPU reduces power consumption (Microsoft claim that in the article), but it does not logically follow from the claim that the operation can be performed in less time.

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
    13. Re:Who cares... by Gaygirlie · · Score: 1

      Your logic is flawed:

      the less time the machine spends active the more time it can spend in idle which quite obviously results in less heat and power consumption.

      The caveat is that power consumption must not increase during the shorter period of operation for this to be true.

      Yes, I could have been anally retentive and said "if the power consumption of the combined devices over the timeframe of the task was smaller than the power consumption of both devices combined over the timeframe of the same task, but with only one of the devices actively performing the task" but.... that wouldn't have added anything to the discussion.

    14. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The thing is that Win Vista and 7 had excuses to be bloody slow OSes. The UI was so bloated that the whole system was slow.

      But Win 8 gotta be fast because Metro is so lame even my 6 year old child could have designed it. Necessity is the mother of all creations. Without all those effects and transparencies why Win 8 would need 2GB to run? Because it's DirectX 3D accelerated, of course!

    15. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try to find a SINGLE modern GPU that cannot e.g. accelerate Direct2D or DirectWrite. Those have been around for atleast a decade now.

      Da fuck?

      DirectWrite is a rendering feature of Direct2D. Direct2D was created as part of Windows 7 and back-ported to Vista. Win7 came came out in 2009. You have a very strange idea of what a "decade" is.

    16. Re:Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very few games? Where have you been?

    17. Re:Who cares... by TheRealGrogan · · Score: 1

      Very few games compared to those that don't, even new releases and they use very few of the features. With but a few exceptions, they only make use of a few enhancements and most of them have them tacked on after the fact. Big deal, a .1 release of DirectX.

      Again, it doesn't justfiy the new version of Windows or the rubbish that it brings.

    18. Re:Who cares... by TheRealGrogan · · Score: 1

      Ad hominem? I haven't attacked you personally, other than returning a little of your snark. I didn't address your question because it was both rhetorical and sarcastic and you already know what I meant... in 3D effects.

      Yes you did claim that... you said the computer would spend more time in idle. It won't be significant.

      Xv, XRender and EXA acceleration --- These are the kinds of acceleration that we've had for a long time. Windows already has that kind of 2D acceleration as well and I said that. The improvements in Windows 8 will not console the people that they won't benefit. I have tested Windows 8 and I don't see any benefit whatsoever. I'm not doing torture tests and benchmarks, I'm talking about real world usage on my workstations.

      Furthermore, I don't seek approval from the likes of you and I'll say whatever I want. I don't have to "learn" to do anything. I clarified my intent. The fact that you're not accepting it is really your problem.

      You're welcome to get the last word, I'll not be reading any more of it.

    19. Re:Who cares... by BitZtream · · Score: 0

      Why would I care if text renders in 100 microseconds or 300?

      Render a full page of text, scrolling (without doing proper backing stores so you actually have to re-render everything for each movement, yes, there are apps that do this!) Then you'll understand that even though most people think its about battery life (and it is for the most part) every tiny bit of latency you can get out of the rendering pipeline is important to how the system 'feels'.

      I may not be able to visually or aurally detect distinct frames, but I can still 'feel' a big perceived difference.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    20. Re:Who cares... by BitZtream · · Score: 0

      dullards,

      Just for reference, when you use such a word, you make the impression that you're nothing more than an ignorant arrogant prick. Regardless of what the rest of your post says, you're written off as a waste of everyones time. You might as well throw in some racial slurs as well as your doing the same thing, just towards intelligence rather than skin color.

      Your use of the word just shows how much of a douche you are. On this site, its about like walking into a Black Panthers meeting and saying 'you niggers are dumb', it really makes it clear how ignorant you are.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    21. Re:Who cares... by smallfries · · Score: 1

      Oh dear, you don't seem to grasp the point so well. If I replace a single processor that performs a task with a set of parallel processors then I cannot claim the power is reduced just because the time is shorter. The energy consumed depends on both the time and the power use of the set of processors. Given the discussion that followed in that thread it is quite clear that understanding the distinction would have added something.

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
  23. That's all well and good... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...but can I turn that off?

  24. 1000% Faster than Windows 3.1? by BlackPignouf · · Score: 1

    Sooo, by integrating over each Windows iteration, supposedly x% faster than the previous, is Windows 8 1000% faster than Windows 3.1?
    Will Metro run on my Commodore PC 20-III?

  25. Less detail, less operations by biofrog · · Score: 1

    I'm pretty sure an erase background message filling a solid block of colour will also be substantially (437%?) faster than rendering a translucent gradient texture filled rectangle. Aero is some what hardware accelerated, but it certainly isn't operation 'free'.

    1. Re:Less detail, less operations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Switching to high contrast themes from even other classic Windows themes causes a speedup when you maximize or hit start. Ditto for lowering resolution to the now useless 600p vga standard res, and disabling menu icons and click fade effects. Windows bloat has been an issue ever since we left 256 color mentality behind

  26. making up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    making up for everything they promised and didn't deliver with longhorn....
    except for a new filesystem...

    1. Re:making up by GigaplexNZ · · Score: 1

      Windows Server 2012 (server version of Windows 8) comes with a new filesystem (ReFS). Just not the one that was promised in Longhorn (WinFS).

  27. Is GDI+ accelerated too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The post fails to mention if old GDI+ apps are accelerated too? (In Vista they were, but not in W7)

    1. Re:Is GDI+ accelerated too? by Gaygirlie · · Score: 1

      Indeed, the blog post doesn't mention GDI with even one word and basically talks only about speeding up DirectX, Metro and HTML. Unless some Microsoft representative clearly says GDI+ has also been improved I'd say it's safe to assume the answer is "no, and never will be."

    2. Re:Is GDI+ accelerated too? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      Do you mean GDI or GDI+ (they are two different things)?

      GDI+ has been a legacy API for years, barely maintained solely because .NET WinForms sits on top of it. I don't think it was ever properly hardware accelerated - the framework for that was created in XP, but no-one bothered on the driver side.

    3. Re:Is GDI+ accelerated too? by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      what I remember is that with vista rtm, gdi+ was not accelerated.. after people complained, it was put back in with a service pack, and it is accelerated in windows 7.

    4. Re:Is GDI+ accelerated too? by GigaplexNZ · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The post fails to mention if old GDI+ apps are accelerated too? (In Vista they were, but not in W7)

      GDI/GDI+ is not accelerated at all in Vista. Windows 7 reintroduced some of the acceleration in GDI (mostly blitting if I recall correctly).

  28. Yeah baby!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > Here, 1,000 times faster than its predecesor!
    > Yeah! Yeah! Ugh, ugh!! [imitating a monkey scream]
    > 1,000 times in this, 800 times in that.
    > Yeah! Yeah!
    etc.
    [[Possible future Balmer speach]]

    What really worries me (apart from being Windows) is power consumption... would it be 1,000 time higher too?

  29. They forgot by jargonburn · · Score: 0

    that no-one will use the DirectX 11.1, since consoles don't.

  30. Re:really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, thank you AC!

  31. heard it before for win 7 by SkunkPussy · · Score: 1

    they claimed they did this in windows 7, but it turns out that minimising windows and so on can make audio programmes skip.

    --
    SURELY NOT!!!!!
  32. Re:Hardware-Accelerated Crashing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here's to hoping they've got their driver-related ducks in a row... methinks they don't... at least not for everything. So while one person is getting sunburned eyes from the speed of the Metro interface, there are a few others who watch their computers implode in a steaming pile of pastel shit.

    In other words... I have reservations about how well this will work, and since this is Microsoft... You'll get full hardware acceleration in Windows 9.

    Well, the pre-release is available to try, and millions are doing so, I have faith in Slashdot that if there were any reports about crashing issues we would have been hearing about it :)

  33. Re:OFFS! by anilg · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A GPU is till a CPU. Either your intel chip will render the text (which involves font files/ glyps/ floating point math), or your Nvidia GPU will, which has specifica hardware instructions optmized for the tasks which rendering text needs.

    So really, I can see why offloading rendering text to GPU makes sense.

    --
    http://dilemma.gulecha.org - My philospohical short film.
  34. Windows 95 by Meneth · · Score: 1

    I remember them doing something similar in Windows 95. Of course, back then it was 2D graphics accelerators rather than 3D...

  35. GPU don't do "efficiency" by S3D · · Score: 1

    Why do you think we still use CPU? GPU core can't stop if it started thread, it can only ignore result on early return. Neither it do branch prediction or efficient caching. Basically through into it big data or small data - if the size is not hardcoded it will do the same amount of work. Simplifying it somehow you can say It recalculate whole screen buffer to change a single pixel.

    1. Re:GPU don't do "efficiency" by Gaygirlie · · Score: 1

      Why do you think we still use CPU?

      Because the two cater to entirely different kinds of workloads, the CPU is good for general computing tasks whereas GPU excels at highly-parallel tasks with a pre-defined output. Why do you think GPU-acceleration was even invented in the first place?

      Basically through into it big data or small data - if the size is not hardcoded it will do the same amount of work.

      ..... I really would like to know where you have gotten such an absurd idea.

    2. Re:GPU don't do "efficiency" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GPU core can't stop if it started thread, it can only ignore result on early return

      So, just like the CPU then?
       
      // if(a < b)
      // c = a - b;
      // else
      // c = b - a;

      __m128 a = someRandomValues();

      __m128 b = someRandomValues();

      __m128 c = _mm_cmplt_ps(a, b);

      __m128 ab = _mm_sub_ps(a, b);

      __m128 ba = _mm_sub_ps(b, a);

      ab = _mm_and_ps(c, ab);

      ba = _mm_andnot_ps(c, ba);

      c = _mm_or_ps(ab, ba);

  36. and as a result performance will blow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only thing made by Micro$oft that wouldn't suck is a vacuum cleaner.

  37. It's sad 8 has such a shitty UI by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Informative

    Because it is a good OS. This isn't the only place they've increased speed. Cakewalk tried out Sonar X1 (their top flight digital audio workstation product) on 8 and found an across the board speed improvement. Not a recompile or something that used new special 8 features, just the code they have out now running on 8.

    The technical types have done good work on it. It looks like they were just able to make it faster, more efficient and all that kind of jazz, and do so without increasing hardware requirements. Wonderful. What's more, they made it so it could run tablet and phone apps, which is cool if you find an app you like and want it on the desktop.

    Unfortunately marketing got involved and said "We have to use desktops to drive sales of the tablets nobody wants! Make it use a tablet interface even though that sucks for desktop use!"

    So we have a good OS, with a shitty UI. Oh well. Personally, it doesn't bother me much. I'll just replace the UI. I imagine Stardock will make a good set of tools to make it look good (they've already released a beta start menu tool) and Classic Shell already has Windows 8 support. So no problems for me.

    It more annoys me at work. What I can guarantee will happen is people will get it either because they want to try it or because they get a new computer, they'll hate the changes, demand 7 back (which we'll give them) and then never want to move from 7, ever, because they'll decide it is "The last good OS."

    I'm sure the MS programmers are pretty bitter at the marketing heads right now fucking up what really is quite a good set of technical improvements.

    1. Re:It's sad 8 has such a shitty UI by LMahesa · · Score: 0

      This has always been true of Windows, and is the core reason behind all the 'lite' releases and tools. 98 vs 98 lite, XP vs XP lite... the performance and stability gains were outstanding. The Windows kernel team is comprised of some seriously unsung heroes, ordered to vastly improve performance which the end user never sees because of some stupid UI gimmick tacked on to make the sheep believe a 0.1 version increase was worthy of a name change and a new bill.

      --
      Look, no SIG!
  38. How does this compare to Quartz in OS X? by iliketrash · · Score: 1

    As far as I know, OS X has used the GPU to render everything for several years. So how does Windows 8 compare? Is this another example of Windows playing catch-up?

  39. Mac OS X - Didnt it have this 5 years ago? by Tim12s · · Score: 1

    Didn't Mac OS X have this years ago?

    Next, people will be trying to sell me bottled water.

    1. Re:Mac OS X - Didnt it have this 5 years ago? by LodCrappo · · Score: 1

      Maybe it did, who knows. Until a feature is available in the OS that 95%+ of the world uses, it really doesn't matter, does it?

      --
      -Lod
    2. Re:Mac OS X - Didnt it have this 5 years ago? by Hillgiant · · Score: 1

      Yes, in fact. Though now they are in the habit of turning it back off to preserve battery life. I figure we will see a similar feature in Windows 10 or 11. Everyone will think that it is revolutionary and cutting edge. They will marvel at how infrequently it crashes.

      --
      -
    3. Re:Mac OS X - Didnt it have this 5 years ago? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, let's all fall to our knees in awe of the company that only took 3 major versions of iOS to finally add complex features like copy and paste.

  40. Microsoft is still in dust - Apple is 4D & 5D by 4phun · · Score: 1

    Apple's Wild New Patent Covers TV & Advanced 5D Technology -
    http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2012/07/apples-wild-new-patent-covers-tv-advanced-5d-technology.html [patentlyapple.com]

    Twenty five more patents were just granted to Apple that blow past Wii, Move, and Kinect which will all be instantly rendered obsolete the moment these patents appear as Apple 4D and 5D hardware.

    http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2012/07/apples-25-granted-patents-include-apple-tv-future-id-app.html

    Could this be why Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo all now fear Apple TV?

    Samsung get your hardware and software copiers ready, you know you have nothing to fear.

    Quote

    “They copied all they could follow,
    But they couldn’t copy my mind.

    “So I left ‘em sweatin’ and schemin’,
    a year and a half behind”

  41. Re:Microsoft is still in dust - Apple is 4D & by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Too bad only string theorists are ever going to use those extra dimensions.

  42. Put the f*g start menu back by bms20 · · Score: 2

    I'm using Customer Preview 8250 right now to build the windows port of my software.

    It is so much faster and more responsive than any windows I've ever used before.

    Please Please Please put the start menu back. You can keep your overlay mode; I don't care, just make it work like every other version of windows out there.

    1. Re:Put the f*g start menu back by SpryGuy · · Score: 1

      The start menu is completely unnecessary. Almost all its functionality is available elsewhere. But yes, you have to actually learn new things.

      If you can't break your old habits, just check out "Start8" from StarDock. It'll give you want you want, including the ability to boot straight to desktop.

      --

      - Spryguy
      There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
  43. Re:Didn't Fedora already use the "faster jpegs" li by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

    last year?

    Possibly. FFMPEG also has an astonishingly fase decoder and encoder, much faster than libJPEG. I suspect it doesn't decode all features properly, but it is very, very fast. I still can't figure out how to get in to be able to decode JPEGs usin it.

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  44. Would video encoding & decoding... by unixisc · · Score: 1

    ...be any faster than what it is now, due to this complete hardware acceleration?

    1. Re:Would video encoding & decoding... by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      no.

      it's up to the encoder to use opencl or whatever to accelerate and those are available under 7 too.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  45. About Time! by cyclomedia · · Score: 1

    Part of what went wrong with Vista (part) was that they were aiming up the CPU/RAM upgrade curve, and no one upgraded because their computers were already Good Enough to do everything they wanted to do. I can still see the speed differences on the same (decent!) hardware between XP and Win 7 ... Granted Win 7 has a proper Administrator/Sandbox layer so I expect some slowdown but not that much.

    So yeah, enough praising MS for this move, they're 7 years late with it.

    --
    If you don't risk failure you don't risk success.
  46. Re:Now you can fry eggs on gpu not only while gami by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i7 CPU uses 40x more energy for scheduling an instruction than on executing it. GPU is more efficient, but the downside is that it's hell to work with.

  47. So much faster by Fuzzums · · Score: 1

    I can see the potential a productivity increase by at least 200% already.
    *writes memo to management*

    I will also recommend to turn on the caps lock by default, because I learned that also gives a better experience.

    --
    Privacy is terrorism.
  48. Wrong metric by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess the important metric here is how much less time it takes to render, not how much faster the rendering speed is. So 300% "faster" really means that instead of rendering X objects, we can now render X + 3X = 4X objects. Hence, each object is now rendered 75% faster, not 300%.

    Great that Microsoft is doing something about the rendering - but would love them to finally, a 20 years or so too late, fix buffering so that windows in the back are updated correctly when an window in front does not. It's just so inelegant.

  49. When moving from XP last week.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is good that they addressed this. I have a visualisation app that doesn't require a decent gpu and the 2d performance dipping to 50% of XP actually sucked.

    I wasn't the only one who noticed.

    http://www.passmark.com/forum/showthread.php?2300-Low-2D-performance-on-windows-7

  50. METRO MENUS by ygslash · · Score: 1
    I'LL BET IT SPEEDS UP RENDERING OF ALL CAPS BY QUITE A BIT.

    .

    .

    .

    [adding some lower case text to get past slashdot's all-caps filter. i appreciate encouraging people not to use all-caps all the time, which can be annoying. but in this case that is the whole point.]

  51. Worse by far. Ask why AD is used. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ask why AD is so great and you get a load of things that AD does that LDAP, DNS and DHCP don't do, but only because it's only windows that is braindead enough to require it.

    I.e. "I want my apps and my config to move with me if I have to work on another computer". NFS mounted home directories on UNIX means that this isn't a problem on those machines. It does it without AD, therefore why implement it?

    However, windows wants it all on the C: drive and locally mounted, therefore they have to have this all reconfigured on boot/login. Braindead windows requires it (maybe it doesn't necessarily, but this is the configuration used), and therefore AD has to do it.

    So the only reasons why AD is used is because Windows doesn't allow the correct option to work and needs to be worked around.

    1. Re:Worse by far. Ask why AD is used. by dontclapthrowmoney · · Score: 5, Informative

      "I want my apps and my config to move with me if I have to work on another computer". NFS mounted home directories on UNIX means that this isn't a problem on those machines. It does it without AD, therefore why implement it?

      However, windows wants it all on the C: drive and locally mounted, therefore they have to have this all reconfigured on boot/login.

      Yeah it's a real shame windows don't have something that lets your profile roam with you.

      - Roaming profiles
      - Folder redirection (with or without mandatory profiles)
      - Group Policy
      - Group Policy preferences (can't remember how I managed without those, now. What's a login script again?)

      And probably a bunch of other stuff I missed, that was off the top of my head. And it's click-and-drool to deploy for the most part, and troubleshooting is just right-click-and-drool.

    2. Re:Worse by far. Ask why AD is used. by kenorland · · Score: 1

      If you think that "roaming profiles" are what "collaboration and communication" are about, you're about 30 years behind the times. And if you think that in 2012, you can give people a corporate laptop and force them to run corporate software on it, you're working for a dinosaur.

    3. Re:Worse by far. Ask why AD is used. by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      In other words, a corporation.

      You may think that the mainframe model applied to PCs constitutes a dinosaur but that's simply how anything beyond a one man shop operates. If you think otherwise, you need to stop going to "occupy" rallies, move out of mom's basement, and get an actual job.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    4. Re:Worse by far. Ask why AD is used. by kenorland · · Score: 1

      Google Apps claims 4 million businesses as their customers, and they're just one of many companies offering cloud services. Many more businesses are converting their in-house IT services to web-based services. And Microsoft is doing the same thing with their product line, they're just slow, as usual.

      Sounds like you need to get out of your dark IT basement and update your skills. If you actually work for a corporation, you might find that your users have thrown most of your work under a bus already; my coworkers and I certainly have.

    5. Re:Worse by far. Ask why AD is used. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Roaming Profiles and Group Policy only work if you use Windows Server and leash your desktop to a domain controller. Linux does similar tasks without requiring additional expense.
      Also, click-and-drool deployment from Microsoft only works if you want it done The Microsoft Way. Most times, their way is too simple or lacks sufficient security.

  52. Swapping libjpeg for libjpeg-turbo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just thought I'd point out that the image decoding improvements between Windows 7 and 8 are very much in line with the speedup that libjpeg-turbo gives over vanilla libjpeg. Linux distro X can have the same speedup over Linux distro X-1 by swapping out their libjpeg library.

  53. DirectX 11.1 vs.consoles by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 1

    Getting a bit off topic, but I'll bite:
    Games publishers are increasingly using DirectX10 and DirectX11 (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_DirectX_11_support). In case of Battlefield 3, DX10 is even a minimum requirement.
    Based on other articles and forums (not only on /.) I have the impression that the influence of the current console generation on graphics features is waning, because they can no longer keep up with current gaming PCs.

    Of course, this might change with the next console generation. Which will probably support DirectX 11.1 (at least the new XBOX will do it). Then we can have the same discussion again over DirectX13 ;-)

    --
    C - the footgun of programming languages
  54. Re:OFFS! by pbjones · · Score: 1

    I understand the concept, just don't figure that text rendering should need to be benchmarked, it is the most basic PC display function. (a hint of sarcasm here)

    --
    There was an unknown error in the submission.
  55. any apps can sniff your typed root password? by Viol8 · · Score: 1

    Really? How do they do that then? Give us the technical details.

    1. Re:any apps can sniff your typed root password? by Clarious · · Score: 1

      Windows UAC prompt runs on a different session (the secured on) instead of the normal session so that hook-based keylogger won't work any more. Also it has higher integrity level than normal apps so keylogger can't inject their version of dlls to steal the password, well, as long as someone doesn't run the keylogger at higher IL anyway.

    2. Re:any apps can sniff your typed root password? by TemporalBeing · · Score: 1

      Windows UAC prompt runs on a different session (the secured on) instead of the normal session so that hook-based keylogger won't work any more. Also it has higher integrity level than normal apps so keylogger can't inject their version of dlls to steal the password, well, as long as someone doesn't run the keylogger at higher IL anyway.

      I suggest you look into the ability of Apps to attach to different sessions - it's really not that hard. So all the keylogger has to do now is monitor one session, just not the user's session.

      For that matter, they can install into the login session and capture any users logging in. Worse case, it installs during a reboot and captures the login session (session 0) and the UAC session; so whenever those sessions are active they automatically capture the only important thing - usernames and passwords - and they don't have to filter out much of anything either since the user can only do a couple things - select a user and enter a password.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
    3. Re:any apps can sniff your typed root password? by Viol8 · · Score: 1

      I'm not talking about Windows. You said:

      "with most GNU/Linux distro any apps can sniff your typed root password"

      So tell us how they do it and prove you're not talking BS about something you know nothing about.

  56. Re:OFFS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Definitely. This is about understanding the strengths and weaknesses of CPUs and GPUs, the overhead needed for offloading to the GPU, and the types of work best done by GPUs.

    One niggling point though - GPUs and CPUs are not one and the same. GPUs, CPUs (and DSPs as another example) are microprocessors, all serving specific purposes, named based on this. Even if one managed to build a system with an existing GPU serving as the CPU, it'd be a horrible mess of hacking hardware and software to allow the GPU to take a role for which it is wholly unsuited.

  57. Windows enhanced fault-tolerant display drivers by benjymouse · · Score: 5, Informative

    applications don't get direct access.. drivers do. if the drivers clobber things they shouldn't, they can crash the kernel..

    Actually, Windows (since Vista) has a more fault-tolerant hybrid driver model for graphics drivers: A "core" part runs in kernel space and the bigger more complicated part runs in user space. If the part of the driver which runs in user mode causes memory corruption, only the user process is affected. This is the major reason why Vista and 7 systems seems more reliable than XP. Microsofts telemetry indicated that poor graphics drivers and overheating and misbehaving graphics cards were *the* major reason for instability of Windows systems.

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb188739.aspx
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa480220.aspx

    Windows also can allow the graphics card to re-initialize if it determines that it has faulted or freezes. For a period I was really annoyed about Internet Explorer 9 when I tried it out. It seemed smooth, especially so when I were scrolling up and down (GPU accelerated). But every 5 seconds or so it would pause for just a fraction of a second. Not much, but definitively enough to being annoying. Little did I know that it was actually the nVidia driver that faulted and the Windows graphics system was actually resetting and re-initializing. When I realized that and updated to the latest nVidia driver the problem went away (I still use Chrome; there still is this "feel" to IE9 that isn't quite right - cannot put my finger on it, though).

    they can crash the kernel.. just like the unix derivatives in service today.

    I don't think that OS X has a similar model - but then again on OS X Apple can tightly control and regression test the limited number of cards and drivers. I have definitively had X crash on me and taking all the apps down with it on more than one occasion - not so much after running Linux mainly under VMWare and Hyper-V.

    --
    Reading slashdot one-liner: (irm http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdot).rdf.item | fl title,desc*
    1. Re:Windows enhanced fault-tolerant display drivers by simplypeachy · · Score: 2

      A well-written and informative reply, you deserve some mod points! I'm on Win7 x64 and have finished playing games in the past, quit to desktop to see that my video driver was restarted. After checking the event logs, I see it happened several times. Whilst I was playing the game. Without me noticing! This feature really says something about how well Microsoft are working around crappy drivers and hardware.

    2. Re:Windows enhanced fault-tolerant display drivers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know what you mean by IE9 not feeling "right". The reason is that they've re-implemented all the common controls like scrollbars and editboxes by themselves, in an attempt to mitigate GDI resource overuse and leaks. For example consider a webpage that has a million dropdown boxes. If they used the Windows built-in controls, the webpage could effectively DoS the operating system. By using optimized controls they can avoid that. But they just.. don't feel right, you know?

      For example, try hovering over the scrollbar in IE9. It doesn't light up in blue like Windows 7 scrollbars do. Small things like that are incredibly annoying.

  58. Windows 8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is the kind of thing that would get me to upgrade. If they could have concentrated on stuff like this and applied it to Windows 7 and then called it Windows 8, I would have been happy with the upgrade. But why did they have to "tabletize" Windows 8 at this point, this is what puts me off upgrading.

  59. Really like Windows 8 by tjstork · · Score: 1

    I really like Windows 8, and in general, I tend to prefer the way it does things on the desktop. I'm on the fence about Metro.. I think its awesome if you have your PC plugged into a TV, the way I do. And, I like the idea of flipping to a full screen view when looking for applications... but, oddly, I find that Ubuntu's latest version does it better.

    --
    This is my sig.
  60. Thats great and all but... by Life2Death · · Score: 1

    Sure it may draw faster but I can load 5 other office programs by the time Metro Mail loads. Maybe uh, work on that.

  61. Faster ADs in Browser by na1led · · Score: 1

    All this acceleration can only mean one thing - a faster way to render all those flashy ADs to your screen. Without all the bloated flash on most websites, we wouldn't need all this acceleration, in-fact you could probably get by with an old Pentium 100 Mhz PC with a 2MB Trident video card.

    --
    -- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
  62. I never thought that text rendered too slowly. by mark_reh · · Score: 0

    My problem has always been with the eternal boot-up times, especially in consideration of how often the system has to be shut down and restarted for band-aid patches for security. I don't mean the MS advertised boot-up time to the log-in screen. I mean the actual time that it takes the HDD to quit cherchunking so I can actually start to work on something. Yeah I get a log-in screen in 30 seconds, but I can't actually do anything on the system for 2 minutes.

    MS's approach to improving boot time seems to be in redefining the term "boot time" rather than actually doing something to speed it up. Speed up text rendering? Really? Gee, thanks.

    1. Re:I never thought that text rendered too slowly. by Ash-Fox · · Score: 2

      I don't have this problem on Windows.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
  63. How many lines of text can it display per second? by Hillgiant · · Score: 1

    And how quickly does it kill the battery running 2D rendering through the GPU?

    I'm a little confused. Is this a mostly-mobile OS or not?

    --
    -
  64. I can hardly wait!! by erroneus · · Score: 1

    This is just amazing! Microsoft has written something which can accelerate my hardware! Those efficient coders in Redmond have done it again. Making the most of our older hardware which would otherwise end up in landfills all over...

    ... what? I've got that backwards? crap...

  65. I can't wait for 128bit processors. by dohzer · · Score: 1

    Then we can render more than 64 JPEGs at once.

  66. Re:...and you probably need a new computer by ledow · · Score: 1

    Though I'm all for Linux advocacy and the low-end, it's not been easy to run a basic PC on 512Mb RAM for anything like common usage for a while now. Firefox alone will kill it, and as soon as you're picking and choosing apps which you can run or not, it's not exactly "perfectly fine".

    That said, your point is true. Windows 3.11 used to be just fine for office work on a 386 with 4Mb RAM. I could even whack resolutions up to something considered "HD" today. It could do all the same things that most business apps manage today. The thing is that MS (and a lot of the desktop environments, to an extent) lost sight of what the desktop could be. I don't want an intelligent desktop, any more than I want a smart TV.

    You know what I want? Fast boot times. Instant window open times. Fast application response. Sensible application control (i.e. just last week I was STILL fighting with an Ubuntu distro that likes to pop up unrelated programs over the top of the program I'm typing a password into and I end up typing my sudo password into a word processor that stole keyboard focus without warning rather than the secure login I was supposed to be typing into - obviously *my* fault for LOOKING DOWN for a fraction of a second...). And nothing that I don't need to be there.

    I don't expect HL2 to run like a daemon on a smartphone, but we're not far off. But I do expect my word processor to load quicker than it did in 1990. And I expect my windows to actually minimize/maximise/drag without lag and (if I want) in the most graphically boring way possible (dotted outline boxes, anyone?), so long as it's faster.

    There's a real market, I think, for a "business" OS. Locked down to a set of programs that load quickly and do exactly what they need to in a boring interface that needs no resources. As it is, we have businesses trying to shoehorn an operating system designed for games and pretty effects into their networks and then having to deal with the consequences.

    Seriously, if I can run Windows 3.11 at LUDICROUS speeds in an emulated environment on a modern PC and get more productivity out of it (if it were for the inconvenience of the software being just-that-old and incompatible), why can't I just have an OS like that? I saw the ship sinking when Active Desktop came along, and it's been slowly sinking ever since - as has relative productivity (i.e. the amount you COULD have got done on a certain specification of PC, compared to the amount you DID get done).

    Hell, I've spent literally minutes just staring boot screens, logon screens, hourglasses and everything else just to load up a web browser this morning. It's so bad, I use suspend rather than shutdown by habit now. But still I can't approach the simplicity and productivity that I'd get if someone made LibreOffice work on Windows 3.11, even if I ran it through an emulated environment.

  67. ofcourse.. by SuperDre · · Score: 1

    Ofcourse it renders faster if you remove a lot of bling bling.. I like the bling bling of windows 7 and I want to keep it for Windows 8. I HATE the fullscreen metro apps, yes they are excellent for tablets and phones, but oh so bad for regular desktop applications.

  68. FYI: OpenGL didn't actually go away with Vista/7 by kfsone · · Score: 1

    When Vista was released, it backpedaled on its OpenGL claims, allowing vendors to create fast installable client drivers (ICDs) that restore native OpenGL support. The OpenGL board sent out newsletters proving that OpenGL is still a first-class citizen, and that OpenGL performance on Vista was still at least as fast as Direct3D. Unfortunately for OpenGL, the damage had already been done -- public confidence in OpenGL was badly shaken.

    http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/01/Why-you-should-use-OpenGL-and-not-DirectX

    --
    -- A change is as good as a reboot.
  69. Re:...and you probably need a new computer by SpryGuy · · Score: 2

    Great story, except that Windows 7 required less memory than Windows Vista... and Windows 8 requires significantly less memory and CPU than Windows 7.

    --

    - Spryguy
    There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
  70. Re:Yes but.. What about that Battery Life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If Windows 8 is switching much of its computation the the GPU, what affect will that have on battery life? Seems to me it would be reduced as GPUs use a lot of energy to do their thing. Shouldn't this increase in speed be obvious to the users of the many trial releases MS has issued of Win8? I haven't heard any reports that graphics (jpeg) rendering is obviously faster in Win 8 than Win 7. Of course, I haven't been able to read all the hype about the new OS.

  71. Ubuntu was no hassle for me to set up by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    In fact, it set up a lot more easily than Windows.

    However, I do agree that ten years ago Linux was more a hassle to set up.

    Windows does have some advantages over Linux, but Linux is no longer a hassle to set up, far from it.

    1. Re:Ubuntu was no hassle for me to set up by claytongulick · · Score: 1

      Oh my god, try installing 12.04 upgrade with an Nvidia card.

      Hell.

      Was damn near enough to make me swear off Ubuntu forever.

      --
      Drinking habits can be dangerous. You can choke on the cloth and the nuns will wonder where their clothes are.
    2. Re:Ubuntu was no hassle for me to set up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2012 is not the year of the no-hassle linux.

  72. PC Gameing by deviceb · · Score: 1

    never mind metro...
    how will Battlefield 3 and 4 run on Windows8.
    if real performance gains are to be had, this is the first news i have heard of the OS that calls for myself to upgrade. forget business for a moment & lets focus on bleeding edge performance. Things that business & MAC users know nothing of ;)

    --
    Kill your TV
  73. Re:...and you probably need a new computer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Install Firefox on that linux distro of yours, open 30 top websites (as in highest page-view number) in 30 tabs at same time and tell me that your 500mb PC still works snappy afterwards, 4GB DDR3 ram stick can be found for $8 that would be $16 for 8GB, VERY small percentage of average PC price

  74. This just in... by t'mbert · · Score: 2

    Microsoft does something positive; Slashdot readers complain.

  75. And Linux in the mean time... by Chemisor · · Score: 2

    And in the mean time, Linux still offers no way to draw smooth animations by synchronizing them to vblank. Xsync was supposed to solve that problem 30 years ago, and yet, it still hasn't.

    1. Re:And Linux in the mean time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And in the mean time, Linux still offers no way to draw smooth animations by synchronizing them to vblank. Xsync was supposed to solve that problem 30 years ago, and yet, it still hasn't.

      Nobody uses GUIs, man. Why would people want to work on such an outdated technology? The CLI is where everything's at! /sarcasm

      The one thing OSS does well is solve technical problems. That's good, and occasionally impressive, but the almost universal allergy to polish and consistent, logical, coherent UI design renders that largely moot. At least, until someone inevitably copies the solution into a superior proprietary product.

    2. Re:And Linux in the mean time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's strange considering I am syncing to vblank on Ubuntu right now.

  76. Sales hype of course. by 3seas · · Score: 1

    So in this age of computer technology I'm still waing for a system that can keep up with my three finger typing...

    Point is, had computers of the 80's had the speed of computers today, the graphics would be at realtime speed.

    So why the slowdown? Its simply because as computer technology provided more speed and resources the developers find ways of using it up and sometimes even giving the users less than they had before...sooooo

    This graphics speed up is either a de-bloating of Windows of the resources are being taken from elsewhere.
    How many hours does it take to load that lightening fast graphics based game?

  77. Useful... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe I'll switch back to Windows when it can open PDF's natively.

    1. Re:Useful... by PortHaven · · Score: 1

      Wait didn't our governments sue to prevent Microsoft from doing things like that?

  78. Dear microsoft, what?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hello, we want a functional OS, not a glittery fancy trick to impress the natives. C'mon!

    1. Re:Dear microsoft, what?! by Z00L00K · · Score: 2

      If they want to improve performance of the OS they should look at improving disk accesses - the boot from a classic hard disk can take ages. CPU performance is not much of an issue these days - and only computers I have experienced slow graphics on are computers ripe for retirement anyway.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  79. Re:Do not want by PortHaven · · Score: 1

    Bet you want free housing and food stamps too!

  80. Amazing rendering speed of W8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They are bragging about rendering filled rectangles (i.e metro ui) faster?

  81. Fuck you M$ by diego.viola · · Score: 1

    What they will accelerate is their downfall after Windows 8.

    Fuck you Microsoft.

  82. C++ Doesn't Own 3D by elabs · · Score: 1

    They need to support hardware-accelerated 3D in C# / Xaml metro apps, not just C++ apps. I don't care if they bring back XNA (as in WP7) or if they integrate 3D into Xaml (as they did with Silverlight 5 and WPF 4). Either way, we can't rely on third-party wrappers around old DirectX libraries. It needs to be officially supported and baked into the tools and libraries.

  83. Even if Windows is stable, I still wouldn't use it by gosand · · Score: 1

    Honestly, XP was stable enough for me, Win 7 seems ok. But that's irrelevant. Linux does what I want it to do, it works the way I want it to work. Windows does not. Mac does not. Period. I love Linux, and not because I hate Windows. I've been using it exclusively on my computer since 1998, and I have no reason to change.

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  84. Developer confusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am really not sure what one should be using to develop Microsoft apps anymore. User32 and GDI32 are deprecated APIs. Winforms is built on top of these APIs. The future of WPF seems uncertain with the killing of Silverlight and the switch to Metro. Plus, I feel that WPF is a very complicated, overly engineered, flawed design.

  85. Re:Didn't Fedora already use the "faster jpegs" li by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    libjpeg-turbo is BSD-licenced, which makes Microsoft's adoptation of the feature even less surprising.

  86. Windows h8? Pah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't much care how flipping fast it renders crap if it takes me 10 minutes before I give up and have to watch a video on how to turn the POS off!

    Windows h8 has no close button for metro apps FFS, apparently the I, as a user should not be burdened with being allowed to close apps. I mean, what kind of lowest common denominator are they aiming for here?

    Metro apps wont allow multitasking, oh nos, more than one app open, my head will explode!

    Aero gets removed and we're left with a desktop that looks akin to Windows 3.1. Why? Probably for no other reason than to make traditional desktop apps look as poo as possible compared to metro.

    What really grinds my gears is that I like Microsoft (yeah I know, burn the heretic ) and to see them make this hideous chimera of an OS makes me really sad.
    I wanted to like it, I downloaded it ran it and about the only thing I liked about it was the new task manager.

    So we have an OS who's primary means of input is touch and MS are currently touting hardware accelerated everything. That's great but what device did they derive these fantastic figures from? It wouldn't be a desktop PC would it? You know, the type of device least suited to using touch interfaces.

    Move over Windows ME, there's a contender for your crown of scat.

  87. Offtopic and pedantic, but I can't resist by BitZtream · · Score: 0

    Usually doing something faster DOES indeed mean it being over in less time. I have no idea what other kinds of "faster" you know of.

    Example: A 24 hour endurance race ends in 24 hours regardless of how much faster you go. Of course, to be pedantic, thats not strictly true either, I don't know the number but there is actually a milage number that goes with that 24 hours that they'll stop at if its done before then so technically its possible for it to mean less time, but in general the time involved is constant regardless of speed.

    Yes, eye rolls are an appropriate response for this comment.

    --
    Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  88. Ugh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Am I the only person who doesn't give even 1 fuck about how the windows interface and text based stuff looks?
    At work I am working.
    At home I am playing games.

    At work my PC is slow enough already.
    At home I want as much of its performance as possible focused on how my games look and how smoothly they run (I don't have $1k every year for a new gfx card so things start to get laggy well before its upgrade time).

    I currently just set all of these things to "Best Performance/off" and never think about it again...

  89. Re:...and you probably need a new computer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What puzzles me is how you pull these "facts" from your ass and believe people will take you seriously.

    "TWICE as big as the previous version" Would make sense between NT4, XP, Vista, as there were significant periods of time between them. Vista and 7, 7 and 8? No.
    "Windows always needs a crap load of memory just to run" Not really. 7 wouldn't really fly with 512, Vista certainly not, but 1-2GB is more than fine. 8GB? Come on now. Nobody believes you.
    "anything before the date of announcement of said latest version is not good enough to run it" Again, this is stubborn, willful ignorance, nor a valid argument.