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Ask Slashdot: the Best Linux Setup To Transition Windows Users?
First time accepted submitter Quantus347 writes "I am trying to convince a number of people to give Linux a chance, arguing that it has come a long way on the road of consumer usability. Can you, oh Wise Ones of Slashdot, recommend a Lunix setup that will be as similar as possible to a Windows environment (Windows 7 or XP). These people hate and fear change, and so will latch onto nearly any noticeable differences, so I'm thinking in terms of both front end functionality and the look of the interface. It would also be very important for them to have to go to the command line as little as possible during daily use (meaning as close to never as can be managed)."
I suggest giving showing them Windows 8 first. After that, the change to any of the major Linux distributions will seem trivial.
Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.
With great hardware support and a polished UI, Ubuntu seems to just work in any case I've implemented it.
Can even go as far as to change out your themeing for an Aero/Win7/WinXP look and feel (Window Theme/Icon Set/Cursor Theme).
No question, the best for Window's users scared of anything but a mouse. I should know.
The simple fact is they will latch onto something and go back. Even if it was a perfect replica they would.
You are wasting your time.
Never used it, but it's designed for exactly this
http://zorin-os.com/
They sound like awful people. Why do you want to do this?
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Personally I find Linux Mint to be the best one, as I prefer my desktop to be more similar to traditional desktop Gnome 2/Windows. Also its very fast and doesn't seem bloated.
Best case scenario, you are right and they can "get used to" the new Linux desktop in front of them. That still saddles YOU with being tier 1, 2, 3, n support for basically the rest of your life. Worst case, things go horribly wrong, days/weeks of work are lost, and you are on the hook for that too.
Just playing devil's advocate, but is supporting Windows 7 and MS office really that bad?
Before you do that ask yourself this: what is the benefit to them of changing? Obviously you're a big fan of linux on the desktop so the benefit to you is great but is it more useable? Does it have compelling features that windows doesn't have? Is it going to make their lives better? Or are you just an evangelist trying to convert them to your religion?
IMO Ubuntu version 10.10 is the pinacle for ease of use so far
A shame it's no longer supported really.
-1 this asshole.
No change, no functional differences, no interface differences, but must involve Linux.
Sounds like a Linux box to satisfy you, running just a Windows VM for your users who seem more than happy on Windows...
Free BSD 5.0 command line only. That way everybody wins!
The purpose of existence is to make money.
Not running as root by default is a Good Thing. As for running graphical administratory applications, that's what gksudo is for.
I know that and I don't even use Linux much (I've got an Ubuntu server install running Apache that I prod every couple of weeks).
Mint would be the next best choice.
They could use some good word of mouth from the Linux community as well. I'm still depressed that Canonical and Gnome both picked a very bad time to screw around with their usability. With the mess that is Windows 8 coming out, and Steam coming for Linux, there's never been a more promising time for Linux. UEFI still worries the crap out of me for the future though. I wish Google would come out with a 'Google/Chrome Linux' full distro to get some momentum behind adoption.
KDE is about as close as you can get to a Windows clone. I know some people who use Kubuntu and seem to like it, and they are primarily Windows users.
People won't change because you think they should, they will change when they need to, for example when they think they need a new computer but don't have the money to pay for it, or when their virus-infested Windows machine is giving them headaches.
So, wait until they have a reason to change, and at that point the best thing you can do is install the most mainstream Linux installation you feel comfortable with (e.g., Ubuntu), even if it looks different from Windows. You might give them a choice between Gnome Classic, Gnome, and Unity and show them how they can switch at login time.
Help them politely and up to a point, but ultimately make it clear that it is their choice and their decision what they want to run.
If these people are satisfied with Windows, why change?
There's nothing special about Linux that warrants the frustration that both you and these users would experience. What happens when you have to tell them that their favorite pet program or game won't run? What's the point of switching? There's nothing available for Linux that doesn't have an equivalent on Windows, while the reverse is most definitely not the case.
Mandriva is the most prepared for desktop user. It contains codecs (even some non-free ones), wine (for installing majority of common office software), has proper file associations, and good graphics configurator - quite similar to Control Panel.
I admit that Ubuntu is more popular (and has more support), but Mandriva is still more polished. I used both.
I put my parents on Debian running XFCE. It looks a bit different from Windows, but the basic concepts are the same. "X" to close the window, box to maximize it, task bar to launch programs, etc.
I should add, though, that my parents never used Windows. I took them straight from MS-DOS to Linux. Going from DOS to XFCE isn't any more disruptive than DOS to Windows, I guess.
On the opposite, the new Unity interface having a kind of "start" button (the top-left one), a control center and customizable startable icons make probably the interface pretty similar to what Windows offers. I has some hard time to get used to Unity (from Gnome 2-3), but it's workable (after the bug fixes).
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
My first question is: Why? Why, if they're both hateful and fearful of change, would they need to change? Why not a newer version of Windows or a Mac?
Users aren't oriented towards their OS, they're oriented towards their tasks. Their typical question will begin with "How do I..." and then continue into "but then how do I...". So your first issue is to determine what they use and how they use it and then find out the best way to solve each of those individual use cases or problems. For example, "How do I manage my finances, I currently use Quicken?" or "How do I upload pictures from my camera?". You need to solve each of those use cases in a sane manner that's easy to use and just as good or better than what they have. Typical users, especially the ones you describe, don't want to spend any more time with their computer than they need to.
Don't underestimate a user's ability to forget things that they do on their computer. Again, they're task-oriented and so they won't necessarily remember that they need a certain program to update some infrequently used spreadsheet twice a year.
Only if you can help them complete their tasks should you switch; you shouldn't switch them to Linux because you perceive it as better; it might not be better for them and then they'll have a tainted view of Linux when in fact the problem was that they couldn't use their silly banner-creation software from 1999 on it.
you are a retard, its called sudo... or gksudo
Are you ready to become the Tech Support department for those users? If you recommend a solution, you "own" the solution.
You're taking a system which has a lot of flexibility and power and saying I just want it to be like this other thing so I can get these guys to be happy. You need to motivate them to want better tools to do there jobs and not worry so much about something being different. If you can get to them from that angle then they will want to learn and use new things and not fear and detest change like so many an office worker :-)
Stick their windows installation into a VM and show them it is only a click away. If they are novice users they will not understand the difference and gradually move to Linux.
Like any addict, withdrawal is a slow and painful process.
Linux Mint with Cinnamon would be one of your best bets. "Everything" button in the lower left, system tray in the lower right, just like Windows, and yet you're still running (a fork of) Gnome 3, so you get all the latest bells and whistles.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
You got that far? I gave up on Ubuntu after I first couldn't get the damn thing to install. Tried again a few versions later and I couldn't get my wifi working without installing ndiswrapper from source. Same wifi card that worked out of the box on most other distros. Hell it was easier to get working on _Arch_ than Ubuntu!
For newbies, I cannot recommend Mandriva more highly. You'll _never_ need the command line. After that it's just a matter of finding a window manager that looks enough like Windows. I would say the default KDE would be fine, but if it really must be identical you may need to try something else. Or just check out some themes.
Nobody much loves Unity, but Ubuntu 12.04 with either Gnome or KDE is pretty slick and easy to use.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
Check there hardware and software needs first.
There can be wifi issues (drivers) and on laptops not all stuff may work.
There is a root account, it just does not have a password set. If you feel you must login as root, you can do something like this from an admin account:
# sudo su -
Now you've launched a root shell. To set a root password so you can su - to it like you would any other account:
# passwd
[type passwd]
[and again]
Done. As for running commands as root from GUI, just alt + F2: sudo command or gksu command (if Unity has gksu installed).
Personally, I've come to prefer the Debian Testing branch for a desktop OS (currently Wheezy). However, I wouldn't expect this to be favorable for a brand new Linux user.
Whatever you choose, I suggest you keep them away from Unity and whatever happened to Gnome as of late.
IMHO, KDE is the closest, in its current incarnation, to a Windows experience. So, maybe Kubuntu will do. Another nice KDE-centric distro could be OpenSuSE, and they have also an awesome (and very underrated) control panel.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
Stop confusing the issues with facts. This person went for weeks, weeks, he tells us, to make such conclusions. His facts are his facts, and Ubuntu must be trashed! Give him his due!
Were it me, I'd recommend LinuxMint 13 with Mate 1.2, based on the Gnome fork, Ubuntu 12.04, and the Debian substrate.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
As I read some time ago in Rentalia's blog (Spanish), the key is to get users comfortable with the apps they use. So, a smart first move is to offer them to start using applications available in both Windows & Linux, so they adapt app-by-app, up to the point where they don't depend on anything from their current OS.
Just then is time to encourage them to switch OS. I would recommend to think some kind of Teamviewer/NX/{any remote desktop/shell alternative} so you can help them whenever they have a problem, without having to wait for you to go in-house just to solve a minor issue.
Make sure you've found out what it is they do, and that you have apps lines up that can give them EVERYTHING they want. If you can't do that, then don't bother. I don't mean a program that "Does the same thing but maybe has some problems," or a program that "Is under active development and will totally support that real soon now." I mean applications that are either the same program, or otherwise 100% replacements for what they use now.
One problem I find with a lot of "You should just switch to Linux," advocates is that they think severely compromising your workflow is going to be a-ok with users. That users should be willing to make big tradeoffs in what they can do or how they do it just for the amazing privilege of using Linux. That, of course, goes over like a ton of bricks with the users.
For example it seems like if someone uses Photoshop and Illustrator it takes about 2 seconds before the knee-jerk "Use GIMP!" gets screamed. However what that says is that you aren't actually considering their use case, just finding a program that is nominally in the same area and deciding it is good enough. Not even close. For some people, GIMP is a fine Photoshop replacement. For others, not at all. GIMP is not at all on Photoshop's level so depending on what the person does it may not be an adequate replacement.
So that is step one: Evaluate what they do, what programs they use and what they use them to do. Then see if you can find replacement software in Linux that does ALL of that. If you can, ok then you can move on to the next step of finding something to make the transition as easy as possible. If you can't, then pack it in and don't bother, because you cannot in fact offer them an easy change. Any change you offer would be one where they would have to make compromises. That's ok for someone who is interested in changing and willing to compromise, that's not ok for someone who is happy and you are trying to convince them change for its own sake is good.
Then Linux is just the OS for them.
I would go with KDE, it's kind of similar (but way more powerful) to Windows in many ways. With a bit of tweaking (ie. double-click) you could make it pretty cosy for ex-MS users.
KDE is very polished now, no show-stopping or other annoying bugs. Personally - I use Arch, but thats not viable for someone who is not a power user.
You should search for a distro that has KDE by default (as the main DE), because offshoots like kubuntu have pretty poor integration and many features are broken. Taking this into consideration I think that OpenSuse would be a good choice.
You should look for a distro as different from Windows as possible, not the opposite.
This false familiarity is going to confuse your users. Users will see that Linux looks like Windows and they will expect that it works like it. But they will soon discover that this is not true, hitting the same familiar icons will yield complete different results in Linux than in Windows, breaking their expectations, and making then angry.
My advice, look for a distro as different as possible. Things are different in Linux, they should look different or they will confuse your users.
If these people are willing to give Linux a chance, then let them try out a live CD of something popular, like Ubuntu. If they like it, good, if they don't, no harm done. The idea of trying to accommodate Windows ways of doing things on Linux feels quite counterproductive. If people are really interested in giving some proper consideration to changing their computer tools they should start with a blank slate rather than expecting you to make Linux look and feel like the computer they are used to.
Chances are, they agreed to your "trial" of Linux just to be polite when you insisted, and may have little motivation to carry this through.
1. learn how to read
2. stop trolling
The much-maligned YaST2 avoids the need to edit things under /etc to a far greater extent than the various GUI setup utilities in Ubuntu. I have absolutely no fear of vi or the command line, but I still find YaST2 useful.
Also, it is KDE by default, which looks much more like Windows.
Considering the wide variety of responses you're getting, I'd suggest submitting this as a poll. There are a number of suggestions getting tossed out right now, and I'm seeing more posts offering different alternatives than subthreads splitting off to support already suggested options
Though this may simply be their way of saying "there really isn't any one answer that has a significant and obvious advantage over the others". :( But either way, I don't think you're getting the results you needed by posting this question, because people are simply providing you with a broad list of all the options you were already aware of without really helping you nail down just a few with useful comparisons to focus your decision on.
Take the top ~8 suggestions (though you are likely already aware of what they are going to be) and resubmit this as a poll. Then do your own research on the top 2 or 3 for a final decision on what will work best in your specific circumstances.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
I'd start by reading this (and if possible, having them read it as well):
http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
Bottom line is, they *have* to want to change. If, as you say, they will latch onto any differences to decry the fact that Linux is not *exactly* like Windows, then, well, you're screwed and may as well not waste your time, because the fact is, Linux *is* different from Windows (the very reason why e.g. I use it).
One thing I've always found funny is that these same people have possibly gone through many changes in Windows and MS Office, always without complaint, because it was fed to them by Microsoft as "the next step". It will probably be the same once they get Windows 8 on a computer; they may think "this is hard to learn" but they will learn it without complaint. But put them in front of Linux and they'll cry foul and refuse to use it because "it's different". This mentality is very hard to beat; I stopped trying a few years ago and just let them writhe in their malware-infected sewers while I continue being able to work on Linux.
I find it slow and 'stuttery', even on middle of the road laptop hardware. I've been putting up with Gnome Shell and even like some of it's features now that extensions are available, but I seem to hit minor crashes fairly often, where I never did under Gnome2.
Use ReactOS, silly boy!
I just wish they'd expand the control centre. Regardless of what they believe, there are a LOT of users that want to have tight control over their settings, while never having to use a terminal.
--
There are a few things we would need to remember about asking people to change. They are going to be naturally resistant to it and they will complain when they have to use effort to accomplish change. I would choose Linux Mint 13 KDE. Why? (1) It works right out of the box. (2) KDE's appearance is very much like Windows (3) KDE is very easy to customize (4) There is enough eye candy to impress, but not overwhelm (5) Mint is likely to continue in business for the foreseeable future I do not work for or have any financial interest in any Linux company either. But Mint 13 Cinnamon also has many of these same attributes. I just think KDE does it better.
Oh, yeah! Wise guy, huh? Woob woob woob woob! Nyuk! Nyuk!
Gentoo + awesome! (oh, and turn off udev when building Xorg for all that is holy!)
If he/she liked windows she should stay there! :-P
Are you talking to yourself there champion? Fuck off.
GET OTHER MANAGERS ON SIDE FIRST. Users just want a computer to use. If you're going to change what they are used to, you'll have to get them sold on the solution. It doesn't have to be like Windows - in fact, if you can find a 'simpler' user interface to use - use it. If you're a geek - you might understand the paradigms that the OS is using - but the end user might not. But also remember that end users aren't morons, and can cope with something different - if they're given the support they need in changing a major way in how they work. This is where having other mangers on side is so important. If their staff are going to take a performance hit, and need retraining on the way they do their day to day jobs, you WILL need them on side.
Actually, Unity has one nifty feature that others lack: you can search for programs available for download right from the dash. While people are getting more used to the concept of repositories via exposition to various "app stores", Windows users who don't use smartphones seem to find that particular feature helpful. Search for "image editor" and it will suggest Photoshop, automatically open the Software Center and ease you into the process. I'd say it's better for casual Windows users, since Unity is pretty - and I know, I hate that word too - intuitive to figure out, even though it lacks basic functionality and customizability that we power users need. Also most help topics and third party debs out there are about Ubuntu.
Then there's Zorin, made for that specific reason. It looks and behaves a lot like a mix of XP and 7. I have used it a little and it seems pretty ok. Also, as a bonus, no Shell crap - it still uses Gnome 2, though a very customized and pimped up version. Better for people who know their way around Windows, as it even has a Control Panel and whatnot.
Mint is also very good option (especially with Cinnamon), but isn't particularly useful to aid in the transition. And any KDE distro will be just as helpful (and is not a bad choice at all, as long as you don't stray from 4.6 - 4.7. Seriously, 4.5 and down and 4.8 are buggy messes.)
I am linux newbie. Ubuntu has a (relatively) slick user interface, and a very helpful and welcoming support community. Being the most popular linux distribution means that there's likely more information about it available online, a larger proportion of it relevant to new users. I also find that software books I read tend to address Ubuntu as the model linux platform, when going into issues like software installation and so forth, and expect users of other distros to adapt the instructions as necessary, which allows me to focus on learning what I bought the book to learn rather than on setup. My intuition is that software is more likely to be available to the platform, in binary form, that it is to other platforms, which is really important to people who have been comfortable using windows. I also believe having a well funded corporate backer is beneficial to quality of the platform and its user experience, up until the point they jump the shark and we all need to abandon them. I haven't experienced any major stability issues, which may be because of 12.04, which is why I include that version number in the title to this recommendation.
Mageia 2 is using the newest KDE version, perhaps the most similar to Windows. It also has the excellent Mageia Control Centre (MCC) for managing all the systems settings. From install to daily use, the command line need never appear.
Amen on your linux recipe.
Since users will have a hell of a time upgrading to the next Linux version. Ubuntu for example routinely drops support for various hardware devices (video cards mostly) on new releases so just because you can get a distro running on your current machine, there's no guarantee that you'll be able to upgrade it. Not to mention the fact the /usr directory is destroyed on most upgrades anyway....
oh wait, that's BSD.
in VMs, since Zorin doesn't require that I rewire my brain to its interface requirements. It's my surfing/writing/spreadsheet/media machine. I do everything but development on it. When I no longer need to develop for windows, I'll chuck the Windows VMs. The transition was remarkably painless.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
I know it's not exactly what you asked but I think a big selling point is the pricepoint. You can pick up low spec computers being sold CHEAP because they won't run MS. I ditched MS because it was too slow on my low spec laptop. So I went for Lubuntu about a year ago. It screams along at a great pace, though I ditched the slow native filemanager (PCManFM) and use Dolphin. I tried Linux ten years ago but there was no support and I gave up. Now the Ubuntu forum has been great for any probs. I tweaked Lubuntu with: libreoffice-writer (closer to Microsoft word functionality and much faster than abiword or openoffice) mplayer in gnome-media (I had to install PulseAudio Volume Control and then select Sound Recorder) leafpad (brilliant little text editor for HUGE text files) gnumeric (spreadsheet) mirage for image manipulation clipit (so that stuff cut to clipboard buffer is available after I quit an application)
And why are you trying to convince my parents to move to Linux?
Few years ago I had an attempt to switch to Linux Debian. After I was unable to connect to a network printer, went back to Windows. It required sysadm expertise to configure it which is a showstopper for a Windows user.
Last week I gave it a new try with Linux Mint. This time connected to network printer perfectly. Even two finger scroll on TouchPad works. However I had few concerns:
- System freezes several times a day (even numlock doesn't work)
- Only Intel graphic card is used for display (No driver support for Nvidia card)
- It consumes laptop battery three time faster then on Windows
After few days I went back to Windows. Don't have two finger scroll, but can use Nvidia, battery is longer and it doesn't freeze. I'll try again eventually.
Okay. Once, when distro hopping to find a system that would install onto a very old PC, I stumbled onto PCLinuxOS. Where others had failed to even install (Ubuntu, Vector, RedHat) this distro installed sweetly, loaded quickly and, much to my amazement, found all the crusty hardware on the POS MOBO that I was reviving in a case mod. (The reason is that the MOBO was installed into the case mod in a customized way. Easier to upgrade the OS than swap the MOBO.) Anyway, I still run this distro on the case mod (an old Russian radio used as a music server). PCLinux has since gone through a decline and rebirth (its repositories tanked a few years back). In recent years it has seen a very substantive revival.
It is now enjoying a solid base with good community support. And is now # 10 on Distrowatch. I recently read a review (sorry, cannot find it) wherein the reviewer expressed mild surprise that this distro was as good as it was. It is good for a Windows user IMHO because it tends to use Windows-like conventions for the GUI. Also the GUI is surprisingly powerful for managing all kinds of settings. Nice for a user who is not comfortable with a terminal program. I confess that it is not pretty to look at out of the box, but it does everything I want it to do on my funky music server.
"No fear. No envy. No meanness." Liam Clancy
Serious, don't do it. Trying to sell someone on a platform they are not self motivated into investigating on their own is a thankless job.
You may get them to listen and try a few things, but it is rare you will ignite sustained enthusiasm in them. After a while your will go out, you will get tired of being their personal IT guy for every little thing, their system will rot, they will give it up, go to something else and you will feel disappointed.
I agree that mint is a pretty good choice, but I thought there were significant issues due to what they bundle, binary blobs etc?
Here here,
I first introduced my wife to linux when I was going to be away for two months (army training) and couldn't provide remote support for windows. So I set her up a windows virtual machine that automatically launched when she logged in to my desktop (running linux/lxde). I also set up a script so she could 'reset' the virtual machine if something wrong. After my second week away, something happened to her computer so she sat down at mine to keep working (it looked like windows because it was windows). However what I didn't do was leave the VM windows full screen. So she was using windows in a window. So she sees firefox on the windows desktop, and she sees firefox on the lxde desktop. Apparently she lost track of which was wich (my bad, I suppose) and when I got back she'd just minimized the virtual machine and was working strictly on the linux desktop. Windows was there if she needed it, but she found she actually didn't _need_ it.
She's on mac now since she is now into graphic design (Adobe CSn), and while I wish I could say I don't know OSX, the fact is once you know enough about computers, solving problems becomes a general case thing, not a specific OS thing. But, her mac gives her less trouble than windows ever did, and my linux gives me less trouble than her mac does. I'd love to get her onto Adobe CSn on Wine, but I've not had any success. I do try again every once in a while, but unfortunately, the guys who claim it works out of the box are not writing tutorials helping me get it to work out of the box.
I did convert my parents a few years ago, but I used a trick:
I first introduced them to the programs they were going to use in their future linux setup, Open Office being the 1st target.
So, gather their needs, find cross platform-equivalent and make them use it.
The OS interface itself is not really an issue if they're able to use their programs efficiently. As for games I'm no expert but wine and, one say, Steam will help.
After that Ubuntu is pretty neat, but Mint may be easier to use without any configuration. Once you install the "restricted" elements of ubuntu they're quite close.
Cheers and good luck !
PS: don't forget tools like teamviewer QuickSupport or logmein (not sure for linux and logmein) to remotely help them on demand.
I've used Debian, Ubuntu and Mint. Switched to KDE because of the mess that Unity/Gnome Shell is and am loving it. NetRunner is the most polished KDE distro in my opinion and it comes from the company, that now sponsors Kubuntu.
give them something they might actually like better? Having a single taskbar on the bottom, with a "start/menu" button is old school. Gnome 2 was better than this with it's default two panel interface.
I have been using the latest Ubuntu for many years now and Unity (now that it's matured a little) has become my favorite desktop environment of all time. It's simple enough that anyone could figure it out. Windows users of today are used to different interfaces on mobile devices and other devices, and they probably know their way around Apple OSX well enough too. There's no reason to think most of them couldn't be totally comfortable with Unity (or KDE, or Gnome 2.x)... even if it takes 5 or 10 minutes to explain to them how package management works on Debian.
No matter what Linux you give them you'll have to explain the fundamental differences between Linux and Windows. So you might as well give them an operating system that looks and feels cutting edge.
Just just tell them that some industry analysts predict 2012 to be the year of the Linux Desktop!
I agree with Linux Mint, and I'd specifically go for the KDE variety -- Despite all the hate that was generated for it, KDE4 is now a very good desktop, plus makes for a good transition experience for a Windows user.
Mint supports Nvidia. I'm using a GeForce GTX 460 with the 295.49 driver. They have done much better keeping up with the latest driver versions than Ubuntu proper .
This guys is throwing up one of those "hybrid-laptops". He's found his corner case and he's going to troll it for everything it's worth.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
What do you expect average PC users to find anything better in Linux? What's the point of change to worse?
Anything that presents the familiar desktop experience to the end user. Unfortunately, this rules out the current versions of Ubuntu.
Mint might be able to pick up the slack though.
The latest Ubuntu is fine once you've retrofitted it with mate. This is not something I would expect a novice to do though.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Mint will be you best bet. It comes with almost everything they will need including Flash Player last time I check. Dumping them right into Linux may not be the best idea. Start off by having them use some of Linux's application on Windows first, like LibreOffice, Firefox or chrome. Many of the application on Linux are ported to Windows. By having them use them on Windows first they will be much more at home when they make the switch.
I found it a bit slow until I stuck 1G of RAM in my laptop. Now it runs just fine. It's not a good desktop environment for low-spec machines, but with 1G and something like a 1.8GHz Pentium M it rocks.
"I am trying to convince a number of people to give Linux a chance" ...That's your problem, right there.
I know this is going to sound like trolling, but I promise you it's not.
Anyway, the "not having to go to the command line" is, frankly, the biggest reason Linux fails on the consumer Desktop. Quote productivity all you want, but the second you have to type a command to do something that Windows has a button for, you've lost 95% of customers (if not more).
I've yet to see a single Linux Distro that accomplishes this. Even Ubuntu has its flaws.
+1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill
It will never be Windows. It won't have the icons, the fonts, the widgets, the Control Panel, etc. etc.
Make it different enough so that the differences are interesting and engaging and valid. If your people will latch onto a font and then decide they don't like it, they'll never move over to Linux anyway.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
I bounce between Windows, Ubuntu and OSX reasonably regularly and am quite able to work with Unity without any problem. I know it does have its detractors, but it is all pretty simple and straight forward to use without getting too many things in the way to confuse a poor Windows user
Before switching someone to a different operating system, switch them over to applications that work on both. Switching someone from Windows to Linux is going to be much more difficult if they're used to Internet Explorer or MS Office, and especially if they have some software for which there is no good Linux equivalent. Switch them over to Chrome or Firefox, LibreOffice or OpenOffice, and so forth, first. Then you can switch them to Linux. Good luck!
But as many posters point out, if Windows works for them, they'll have little reason to switch. It might make sense to switch if you are in charge of dozens of computers in a corporate environment, because you could spend significantly less on software and maintenance. Again, the way to succeed there is to switch applications first.
What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
If you need 9 weeks of Windows and 9 weeks of RedHat training, you've already failed.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
The old school Unix users are laughing at you.
1) sudo is really not that much trouble
2) it's built into the GUI so you don't even have to use it anyways.
It's like you've never actually touched Ubuntu EVER.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
That nVidia card you have (the hybrid/switchable graphics) is the reason for Linus's now famous "F* you, nVidia" comment.
I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
There is not going to be a painless transition to Linux for these people. If they really do hate and fear change to the extent that you suggest you need to focus on why they want to use Linux otherwise they will get frustrated and want to go back to Windows. Even the best tools and desktop environments that closely mimic Windows equivalents are still called different things, use different icons, and have a significant amount of small differences that can intimidate many people. Geeks that love software will gladly learn these differences, but many people will not.
That being said I did successfully switch my mother to using Linux for a period of 5 years. However, I was only able to do so because she was downloading various pieces of malicious crap that rendered her computer unbootable about once every 3 months. Eventually I got her try Linux for 6 months and see if her computer would continue working longer. That computer never had problems booting again. I was able to find software that did everything she wanted and setup wine to run the applications I couldn't replace, but I had to walk her through every application step by step while she took notes.
I know I am in a small minority, but I am fine with Unity. The only think I haven't gotten used to is the real lack of a application menu.
But since it's about a 90/10 percent split for things I do all the time vs. things I don't do often then I don't have a real problem with it.
does no-one remember how rubbish windows 95, 98, 2000, ME etc etc were, installing programmes was a nightmare, finding drivers, rebooting blah blah blah. Windows is still a pain, Linux is still a pain, nothing is simple. If they want open source and a free OS give it to them, if they want to pay, get no support let them. They're all as crap as each other, flaws, issues etc. They're computers, they're not perfect. Everyone seems to expect computers to just work. Always. But they dont, its a fact of (modern) life. I expect my computer to break in the same way my car/toaster/washing machine does.
I find that the desktop environment or distribution really doesn't matter that much in the end, what matters is that you have the application that you need. So if the users you want to switch over just need a browser, any popular distribution will do (i.e. Ubuntu), but if your users want to play games or use Photoshop or whatever, forget it, it's a waste of time, as Linux doesn't really have anything in those areas that can match the quality of products that Windows offers.
Also know what you are up against. Windows98 did had some issues with stability and such that made Linux an interesting alternative. Newer Windows do not. My Linux boxes crash a heck of a lot more (mostly thanks to buggy GPU drivers) then my rusty copy of Vista, which I don't think I have ever seen crashing. So there is no benefit in switching over for stability. Only areas where I still see Linux having a big advantage is in old hardware support (i.e. drivers rarely become obsolete with a new version) and lower system requirements when you display all the OpenGL desktop effects.
So in the end Linux is good for poor people and Open Source hippies. For everybody else there really is not much reason to switch on the desktop.
I'm not sure that dismissing a hybrid integrated / discreet video laptop as a "corner case" is entirely fair. Quite a few laptops have been made in that configuration, and it does make a pretty tremendous improvement in battery life to use the lesser GPU when you don't need the extra power of the discreet chip.
I'd personally say any case where Linux is left unable to use performance or battery life increasing features of a laptop is a pretty bad situation. Certainly for me to sell Mom & Dad on, "Here's your new OS! It kind of looks the same, but your battery only lasts half as long." Yeah Not gonna fly...
Until Linux rids itself of its dependence on terminal commands, it will never win the desktop of the average user. In my experience, for the average user, any OS that requires typed commands of any kind for any reason is a non-starter. Even a simple apt-get is too much.
First, I think you should learn how to spell Linux (not Lunix). Then I would serious ask why you're trying to push a new OS down someone's throat if they don't want it? Assuming you do talk someone into trying Linux then I would either
A) set up their system with the same distro you have since you will be their 24/7 tech support.
B) get them Mint with either MATE or KDE
C) Give them a copy of Ubuntu Made Easy, which comes with a live CD and a great deal of easy to read documentation.
The configuration of the systems will be the most important factor in easing the transition. No distribution will come fully configured to meet the use cases of individual users or a task-specific group of users. I'd recommend Linux Mint KDE for the greater depth of configurability that KDE offers and the relatively finished state of configuration offered by Mint in the initial installation. Alternatively, Kubuntu will give the same basis with more of a blank slate to start. I'd suggest looking at UCK to produce a preconfigured master, specific to your situation.
I'd stress that this is an upgrade and that some adjustment will be necessary. If you buy a new car, you need to learn a new layout for the gauges and controls; improved software requires some of the same accommodations. Underline the benefits that will accrue to the users from committing to such a course.
So, you will need to 1) Configure the systems, yourself, to ease the transition, 2) Sell the benefits of the transition to get user buy-in, and 3) Educate your users to empower them with the new functionality the will enjoy.
I personally prefer OpenSuSE, with KDE. My personal opinion, and take it for what it is worth, Gnome is a Mac interface clone while KDE is a Windows clone. At this point in time, I would have a test instance of OpenSuSE and Ubuntu with similar hardware you are going to be working with and see which one works best for a novice user. I would configure both with KDE and have WINE present and configured. Set up WINE to mimic the windows environment as closely as possible. Break some of the securities set in place to accommodate the user, separate out the home directory to a large partition. Make a hard drive image of the whole thing, and then a copy of the various partitions. This is so that if they mess up you can get them back up fast. Train them on the new desktop a little, enough to let them work. If you did it right, there will be little training needed. Also be ready for a lot of questions. I had to do this for my fiance, with Ubuntu.
My personal flavor of Linux is OpenSuSE, I have been using it since SuSE 6.2~3. I have messed with Mint, Mandrake, RedHat - Fedora, Debian, Slackware, Ubuntu and a few other minor distributions. I like YaST and how KDE have set up their configuration windows and how you can access them from one source, each. I am too entrenched in windows based games to go to Linux entirely, and I know some run really well under Linux. Before you get one my about my choices, let me point out one thing, Diablo 3 and its ban of all Linux user using WINE.
seriously, mint is broken. word of mouth is what they have there, i too was fooled into trying it.
One thing i can't stand is having to just about Crowbar and Sledghammer the system to be able to login (with Desktop) as Root.
Oh and for those that go ROOT login is EVIL then why in the Ech Eee DoubleHockeysticks does so much stuff require Root to fix??
example :if i mount a portable hard drive I WANT IT TO BE READ WRITE WITH OPEN WORLD PERMS so why do i have to hand hack settings files to fix this (or just run as Root)
so to all the Distro makers i set a challenge
1 enable Root (with desktop)
2 minimize the amount of stuff that REQUIRES ROOT
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
Believe it or not, desktop environment doesn't matter that much for your average user. Unity or Gnome Shell is fine if the hardware supports it. (Well at least now that they are both less prone to random crashes). LXDE, XFCE and KDE all would likely work fine. Make sure it's one that you can help them with. Personally I would go with Gnome Shell, with extensions, which can give the user the feeling of actually being in control of their computer.
Make sure everything just works on their hardware (use the testing utility on Ubuntu). Oh, and I'm also assuming you already made sure they don't depend on or use any windows only stuff...
Make sure to give them some piece of software that they already know how to use. If they use Firefox give 'em firefox, If Chrome then Chrome, etc. This let's them not feel like everything is changing which is really important. If they use Microsoft Office a lot, you needed to switch them to LibreOffice while on Windows.
Are you talking about this intel/nvidia card laptops for energy save - intel, for rest nvidia?
They dont work as expected on Windows(i am professional support for company that uses openCL in it's products). What do you expect from Linux?
Android. Seriously.
It's the most successful consumer Linux Distribution out there and has apps for just about anything. The only drawback is that x86 versions are a bit lacking, but there's plenty of Arm devices on the cheap to be had.
In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!
A mac :)
Hmmm...
And which distro would you recommend? ;-)
RHEL 6 run gnome 2.X, is supported for 10 years, and work fine on most hardware. So I would take that, or if you do not want to spend a bit of money and do not mind lagging on security, take a centos 6. If they fear change, then give them what will not change, and that's exactly what those distribution offer.
In the same idea, take a debian, the support is quite long enough, and they also ship gnome 2.X. That's also rock solid.
Try setting up Mint-13 KDE with Cario-Dock. Cario-Dock will take a bit of tweaking to remove some useless launchers. You should have launchers on the dock for logoff/power down, weather, open office writer and maybe calc, firefox and thunderbird, applications menu, volume control. I'd remove the links to open apps ???
I move the KDE task bar to the top of the screen (since dock is on the bottom). Set the task window switcher to 4 windows in one row. Add logout/lock applets. Go to settings and disable KDE screensaver and install xscreensaver, then add xscreensaver to startup menu. Also replace kscreenlocker with a sh script to launch xscreensaver when the lock button is pressed. Now you have a nice Mac looking desktop that a windows user will still find comfortable.
Um, Xubuntu is a current version of Ubuntu. My elderly and not-technically-inclined parents are using it.
Note that 'novices' don't install operating systems, either. In practice, everyone who's not a techie leans on someone for tech support - family, friends, the neighbor's kid who's "good with computers". Windows sure doesn't maintain itself.
PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
Your MS server training should have showed you powershell and told you that even MS is going to headless servers.
Doing admin tasks through the GUI is braindead.
Couple things. I haven't used Ubuntu for years but you are correct as far as I know that there is no right-click type menu option to use gksudo. You didn't deserve to be modded flamebait but most will disagree with you even though your opinion of the way Ubuntu handles root was a common reaction back in the day when Ubuntu was still new. Ubuntu is in the end primarily a distro for average desktop users. Most of these users are never going to need to manually edit a config file that isn't under their home directory. If a step like that is needed it is safer to include a tutorial that has a "type sudo specific_command" step rather than a step that has them jumping into a root shell. All common tasks like installing Java are available using the gui tool for package management.
I agree with Linux Mint, and I'd specifically go for the KDE variety -- Despite all the hate that was generated for it, KDE4 is now a very good desktop, plus makes for a good transition experience for a Windows user.
I can sort of second that. I put my 65 year old step dad on my Ubuntu 12.04 with KDE installed*, and he grabbed the mouse and took right off. No issues whatsoever. He didn't need to ask any questions and just did his work.
* Not Kubuntu. I haven't tried that yet. I'll probably go with that next or "pure" Debian. I've had issues with Mint not booting the last time I ran it. Every time the system rebooted, I would get the busybox prompt. After four or five reboots, it would finally come up. No other distro had those problems on that system. Don't know if they ever got that ironed out or if I'd have the same issue on my new system, but the fact that it happened keeps me from trying Mint again. Well, that and I want to be as close to "real" Linux as possible. Mint has too many customizations for my taste. Not configuration costomizations, but actual binary replacements of applications. Oh, and the browser search hijacking bothers me as well.
So... I'd say NO to Mint.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
9 weeks of Redhat training at my college I was like hey, let's check out Linux.
You did 9 weeks of training without even trying what you were trained for= Really?
I gave up after trying to install Java.
You go to college, had 9 weeks of training and still can't read documentation? Must suck to be you...
Let me explain the unbearably complex process to you:
Alternative 1: Open Ubuntu's software center, search for "Java", click "install", enter your password, press enter.
Alternative 2: Open a terminal, type "sudo apt-get install openjdk-6-jre" or "sudo apt-get install openjdk-6-jdk", press enter, type your password, press enter.
Are you really sure you are qualified for college?
There is a root account and it has no password set. You are the one trolling here, or just painfully stupid.
Unless your friends are ONLY using their PC's for "the internet" don't hook them immediately up on Linux. Driver support, Adobe Programs and Microsoft Office are not perfectly to replace with Linux. IF you want to get them to switch in the future try to get them to use only open source alternatives (GIMP, Libreoffice, Firefox). If they are satisfied with that then maybe after some time (and depending on their hardware) you might suggest that there's a FREE (as in beer) alternative to Windows that will just work as well and is FREE (as in beer...).
I wish they'd get rid of compiz or spend a lot of time optimizing it. I notice performance issues on high end hardware with Unity (which uses compiz) and horrible battery life.
But with GNOME 3's mutter window manager, it's smooth with decent battery life.
Compiz was the first major compositing window manager, so I wonder how much cruft is in the codebase.
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
they are interested in Linux, boot a few live CDs (like Linux Mint KDE, Mepis, etc...) for them. But don't push at all, that is counterproductive.
Ubuntu Studio, uses XFCE
The intel graphics driver is notorious for hanging when you do a lot of 3D rendering.
If you have an nvidia card, my suggestion is grabbing the binary driver from 'www.nvidia.com' for Linux and installing it.
It has a runtime installer that will automatically update your xwindow configuration.
So you basically download it, run/install it, then restart your Xwindow environment and you should be golden.
to convert them to Linux? Are they not happy with windows or they don't have a copy? Well in any case Mint is nice and Ubuntu is pretty friendly. Steam is coming on Ubuntu for those who like games.
Man, we really need to stop thinking that everyone wants what we want. For an end user, that Apple-like, appliance experience may be just the ticket, and Unity is perfect for them. Only a handful of users in the world even KNOW what a desktop manager is; they don't want to tinker and customize, they just to run apps.
"We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
On Linux, you almost universally find meaningful error messages, log files, verbose mode, etc. On Windows, you hardly ever do. So yeah, fixing Linux is easier because it's much easier to figure out what's actually wrong.
PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
1. Learn how to detect sarcasm.
2. Don't act as if you suddenly know everything there is to know about linux just cause you went on one lousy redhat course. The fact that you are afraid to touch a command line tells me (and pretty much everyone else on slashdot) that you don't actually know what you're doing and can't handle doing your job without being spoonfed. The fact that you are dissing something as evil and horrible just because it doesn't match up with what you've been taught, is downright pathetic.
A decent sysadmin would recognize that both command line and gui have value, depending on what needs to be done. As point of fact, command line on linux is infinitely more powerful than GUI could ever be. While I have no personal experience with Windows Powershell, from what I've read, it is similarly powerful.
No, but you hafta have a root account. Like while I was using Linux, I had a root account, and a couple of login accounts for different purposes. I would only use root when I wanted to do an system-wide software install or upgrade, but otherwise, I'd never touch root and would work within those user accounts. One needs the root account itself, but should ideally avoid working in that for anything other than administrative purposes.
Get them used to Firefox, thunderbird, OpenOffice, gimp, audacity, etc on Windows first, then a year later suggest a change of OS. If they don't like the above applications, they're going to hate using linux.
After 9 weeks of MS Server training then 9 weeks of Redhat training at my college I was like hey, let's check out Linux. So I downloaded Ubuntu and now I can say with 100% certainty, don't use Ubuntu! There is no root (aka Admin) login by default and no GUI ability to run things as root. That means if you want to do something administratory, you have to get out some very long, very annoying text commands. It's unbearable. I gave up after trying to install Java. I have heard from friends that Linux Mint is a lot friendlier but haven't tried it.
sudo for command admin, gksudo for gui admin. USE THEM
http://zorin-os.com/ Based on Ubuntu 12.04, deliberately made to look and behave like Windows 7.
Lets first talk about hardware. One must first see if a printer is compatible with Ubuntu before buying it. See a cheap printer at a store or garage sale and most likely it will not work with Ubuntu. The same goes with a web cam. Now lets talk about software. I like windows explorer as I just have to press two keys and it is up and running. I click on my computer and I see all the drives and their capacity and remaining space. Copying from drive to another is very easy. I have yet to see anything close to it on Ubuntu. I am now having a problem with the screen freezing on me. The mouse will still work but when I click on a icon nothing happens. I believe that there is a problem with compiz as after I reboot it will tell me that it has closed and will ask me if I want it to remain closed. I suspect that the problem lies in the video interface driver. Drivers will remain a problem until hardware makers have enough incentive to write an maintain a driver for Ubuntu. Ubuntu has been around for a decade and their has not been much progress. I have tried to boot with a linux OS to just backup my computer but the program was difficult for me and even finding a help file was not easy. The root directory is ram memory and drives are in dev folder and these have to be set up before one executes the backup program as I guess it is too difficult for them to access the drives in the program. For a long time I thought that a terminal program was a program to connect one computer to another usually using a phone modem. To my surprise it was a program to get me into command mode.
Maybe not the next best choice. I've installed the Cinnamon desktop environment on my Ubuntu 12.04, which gives the Mint OS's look but keeps all the benefits of the Ubuntu community, 'cause it actually is Ubuntu and not just Ubuntu based. This also allows someone to try Unity, and any other desktop environments installed on the system. I don't know 100% for certain, but I think you can't install Unity on Mint? Even if you can... why do Mint, which an altered Ubuntu, if you can just do Ubuntu & still get the Mint UI that someone might like?
Fedora with http://easylifeproject.org/ - for end users, Gnome 3 is a "must have" (sufficiently different from windows, for the end user note it, but feature equivalent or superior for non-geeks)
Maybe someday it'll change, but for now Windows is massively targeted by malware. I'll take the risk of occasional tech support chores, rather than the certainty of regular malware-cleaning chores.
PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
Ubuntu is nice easy out of box usable and quite polished.
Debian stable however is stable and doesn't change much. You can easily install and ignore for years.
They might not notice it at first, but then as they remember things breaking and becoming unstable the Linux advantage will shine through.
I have no criticism of the poster that I responded to, only the twit that he tried to help. If a person goes for six weeks to learn about RH, then coughs a storm against Ubuntu for a perceived root account absence problem, he needs to be straightened out. He was.
But there's this part about why not dig under the surface and get your fingernails dirty to find the answer instead of dismissing an entire distribution for an erroneous assumption. That's where my gall is poised.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
Explain to them why it's better:
# It's free and always will be
# It will never pester them about activation or similar BS
# They will rarely, if ever, need to worry about malware
And be willing to:
# Install a bunch of software for them (don't just give them the out-of-the-box installation and expect them to take care of things)
# Configure it for minimal distraction (as few sudo prompts as possible) and maximum usability (rename "Package Manager" to "App Store", etc.)
# Image the drive once you're done your initial configuration. If you can find something to automatically backup their files and image the / partition on a nightly schedule, even better.
# Explain that there's nothing they can click or type that can't be fixed. People worry too much that clicking the wrong thing will set the computer on fire.
# Be their front-line support for a while (enable remote desktop, install openssh so you have remote shell access)
As for what distro, probably Ubuntu (without Unity) or Kubuntu (the K menu should give some similarity to the start menu)
I recently removed Windows XP Home from my mom's netbook and installed Ubuntu (before Unity ruined it) ... she loves it. Although, it helps that her particular netbook ran unusably slow on XP and runs acceptably quick with Ubuntu.
As long as it does web surfing, email and Skype with video, she's happy.
I run into people who use Windows and look at Linux and say they don't like it. Yet , those same people will say they love OS X, and they don't realize that its still Linux. I think some people just have this perceived notion that Linux is not good.
-- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
For me, at least, the big decision was in which window manager to use. Most windows users aren't going to understand the concept of having a choice in window managers or even the fact that you can have multiple installed. For me, it took months of trial and error before I realized that I preferred light weight window managers over the Gnome and KDE.
For the system freezes, you could check the kernel log. It might give you an idea of what is causing the lockup.
You can try Ironhide or Bumblebee for solving your Nvidia optimus problem.
The battery issue is mostly due to the Nvidia GPU being on all the time. If you get Ironhide / Bumblebee working it should mostly resolve your battery issue.
But I don't think operating system change is the first place to start. I think you first have to start by getting them accustomed to, if not expect, software applications which exist on Windows but also on Linux. Get them off Internet Explorer and onto Firefox. Gradually move them away from MS Office and onto LibreOffice. VLC instead of Windows Media Player. And so on down the line, to where when you do have them switch to a different OS, everything else is basically the same.
Of course there will be some differences as you move from Windows to Linux, but if you can make everything else seem comfortable and common, they will be much less likely to resist the change, and be more likely to say, "Well, this has everything I ever use, and I don't have to pay for it". I think the rest would work out quite nicely.
How is this any different from supporting Mac or Windows platforms?
Perhaps someone lives in a town with no LUGs and no PC repair shops that understand whatever Linux distribution you use.
Windows is just a psychopath - I need to reinstall every 6 months to get the performance back.
And guess what? Windows 8 has a one-click reinstall.
Good point. Just looking at /etc/shadow would have showed him the truth.
Back at home, it's another thing. I share laptop with my wife, I tried Linux and the feedback was always negative. It's incredible how Linux on laptop sucks, from harware issues to usability issues, even for basic things like closing the lid and freezing when opening again. Issues i had:
From time-to time, I check out a new distro and always get back to Windows, I just cannot make all things work. Tried Mandriva, OpenSUSE, Fedora, CentOS, Ubuntu, Debian and FreeBSD.
I would recommend to a beginner to set-up Virtual Box and try a virtual machine approach first. That should solve some drivers issues and get the picture without re-installing everything.
Significant issues, for whom, exactly? Windows users are accustomed to downloading binary blobs from any frigging untrusted source they happen to stumble over while randomly browsing porn/phishing/hacking/music/video/MySpace/learnterrorismtheeasyway/betterdesignerdrugs/scamoftheweek sites.
If you find a new Linux convert who gives a small damn about binary blobs, he has probably converted from BSD or something of the sort.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Why do Ubuntu if you can just do Debian?
You are talking about NVidia Optimus which is not and never will be supported on Linux. The little run-in Linus had with NVidia is about this. I have one of these laptops (Dell XPS 15 L502x), and I simply blacklisted the NVidia card and let run everything on Intel. Works fine from what I see, but I don't actually use that laptop all that much.
Basically this is a case of "caveat emptor", and I plead guitly too. I read "NVidea", said: "great linux support" without doing any research and... well. that's about it. My mistake. Luckily it was only a 525€ mistake and the laptop is pretty damn fine for the rest. Just no 3D.
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
Give them Ubuntu 12.04 and tell them it is Windows 8!
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
This is really simple. Tell them your company is an alpha site for Windows9 and load Ubuntu on their systems. Any problems are due to Microsoft incompatibilities, so using MS-Office won't be available for a few years and LibreOffice is available now. The Mac people will love the window controls on the upper-left-side.
After Mom got a root kit and 50+ viruses on her WinXP system, I loaded Lubuntu 10.04 in a new partition. This was a few years ago. She was really afraid of Linux at the time. I put 4 icons on her desktop that she already knew. Thunderbird, Firefox, Chromium (never chrome), Quicken, and a file browser. These all "just work" for her. There is 1 program that she wants that I haven't been able to get working - it is a highly specialized stock tracking and selection tool built on OCX and .NET. Besides that, she love Lubuntu. Every week, her system gets patched just like all my other Linux systems. 1 more hostname inside a script that patches 20-30 other hosts isn't a big deal.
Anyway, that was 2 years ago. Obviously, she hasn't
* had any viruses since,
* her system gets a local snapshot backup every hour and
* I pull system backups every week from 3 states away.
She loves it. I've already explained that if her PC dies, just put that HDD into any other PC and boot - it will work the same. If the HDD fails, then she can buy another PC (from anywhere) and install stock Ubuntu off any CDROM. I can talk her thru installing ssh-server and will be able to remote in, push her file restores and get her back exactly to the same place within a day or so.
I've shown her Windows7 on my laptop and it scares her. The interface is too different and she finds it confusing. The change from XP to 7 really is big for most end-users. The change from XP to Lubuntu is nothing, but having similar programs on Windows **before** hand really did make it easier.
BTW, she's happily running all this on a 512MB Pentium4 system with a 30GB HDD. Lubuntu uses only 10G for the OS, apps and all her data.
Anyone else remember that Aussie video showing KDE to people in a market, but telling them it was MS-Vista? http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/zdnet-asks-if-you-like-windows-7-2009026/ Generally, they liked the new OS and were impressed by simple features.
My suggestion is to dual boot a system. Place Windows on the Primary partition and Ubuntu or whatever your preference is on another partition or drive. This worked for my Dad, and now he loves Linux more than he does Windows. People just like to have that security blanket just in case.
If Linux is hostile to even friendly switchers, for God's sake man, why do you want to foist it on hostile switchers? Your future job will be endlessly explaining that some stupid minor feature they adore (probably UI or display related) isn't important and they can't have it. Good luck with that.
This guys is throwing up one of those "hybrid-laptops". He's found his corner case and he's going to troll it for everything it's worth.
If hybrid graphics on a laptop counts as a corner case and so do similarly common corners with other components (hybrid SSD/HD, fingerprint reader, uh...3g transceiver, etc.) then I think the vast majority of computers will have some sort of corner case that is central to their normal operation.
"I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
I've read your post a couple times now - and can't seem to make sense of it.
Can't install Mint on Mint/Debian? I can't imagine that anyone has wanted to. Has anyone tried? And, why?
As for the benefits of the Ubuntu community - I just don't know. I mean, we all realize that Ubuntu is a subsection of the greater Debian community, right? If it works on Debian, it should work on Ubuntu, but not necessarily the opposite. Ubuntu has bastardized Debian for their own purposes, and butchered the desktop. Hordes of Ubuntu users are fleeing that community, and finding refuge with Mint. Mint Debian, for me, which remains true to the real Debian community, and basically has turned it's back on the heretics over at Ubuntu.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
You shouldn't really bother too much. Linux isn't for everybody, a conclusion I've come to after giving up windows years ago and going down the linux-is-for-everyone road. There is only one real reason to push linux beyond yourself to any extent, and that is because the microsoft (and apple) people are not content with their herds as they are. They want to enslave everyone. They want to make it difficult or even impossible for anyone to have a choice, with legalities and hardware and software fences. They will never give up doing that, and they contiually have some success with the strategy. Look at ubuntu and red hat's recent cave to microsofts hardware lockdown, just as one example. Getting the man in the street to use linux is very much like tilting windmills. You can do much good by selecting your targets though. Some people don't like being restricted in their choice of the tools they work with to get things done, and these people are the more competent people in society. You will recognise them. And never, never, never spend a dime on microsoft or apple.
I was going to give my suggestions about a Linux setup, but now that I see you're talking about Lunix, I'll move on and look for typos in other Slashdot posts.
For a newbie, the first thing I would suggest is a distro that has strong community support.
A newbie is going to need a significant amount of help.
I switched from Windows 7 to OpenSuse and have not looked back. The community is great, the platform is stable and KDE is the most productive desktop environment for me. The new Dolphin file manager is reason alone to switch.
Openbox can "roll up" a window, a feature I don't want, but there doesn't seem to be any easy way to remove it.
Wow. Really? Really?
http://openbox.org/wiki/Configuration#Theme
Yeah... having to read documentation and edit a plain text file. You'd have to be a genius to manage that.
I have yet to find a Linux desktop environment that doesn't have issues.
You know what the common link is between all of your experiences with different DEs?
You.
I'm probably in a smaller minority.
Have you heard of a window manager called FLUXBOX?
Very simple
Extremely customizable
No more start button
Easy access to applications a right-click away
I've tried others, but always find my way back to FLUXBOX :)
As much as I love the "Which Linux Will Save Us From Windows" debate (Personally I use Ubuntu, Slackware, and dabble in OpenSuSE), this question is DEADBEEF getting beaten over and over and over.
For background - I'm a hard-core Unix Administrator (professionally) for the last 15 years (supporting SGI Irix, HP-UX, Solaris, RedHat, VMWare, etc...) who's mantra is "GUI's are for lazy people" and approach tasks from the concept of "what can you do when the system is down and you're using a VT term".
However, as much as I hate to say it, each time I try switching my home systems to Linux there is always something seemingly simple (in Windows) that after days/weeks researching I can never get working, so I go back to windows. Wi-FI? Forget it. Winamp replacements to listen to streaming audio? Forget it. Gnome3 desktop on dual monitors to work right? Forget it. Yes, I've tried lots of different distros, but I always eventually find SOMETHING that I can do easily on Windows that I can't do with Linux (and lets not even talk about games).
I can't even imagine trying to explain to a novice about device drivers and how to find, install, and make sure they work. Oh, you are trying to get your WiFi/Sound/Video card working? No, you have to search by the chips it uses, not the brand name. How do you find that? Depends on the distro which tools you can use. How do you add new software? Well, check your dependcies ("What are those???"), make sure those and their respective dependencies are installed ("How? Depends on your distro what tools it has...") and then install the app you want. Oh, it requires a kernel patch to work?
Gimme the damn Windows install disk.....
This post hits close to home... A year or so ago (pre-Unity), I decided to try an experiment around the office. We had some desktop users who were claiming to need a notebook for things (travel, presentations, etc...). We have tons of old notebooks that we cannot donate or trash yet due to the specifics of the funding they were purchased with. I took a couple of the old notebooks and prepped them with Ubuntu then themed it to resemble Windows (was not going for a 100% duplication). "My Computer", "My Documents", etc... Put appropriate shortcuts on the desktop and handed it over to a couple of users to try out. Now keep in mind the office had not yet switched to Windows 7. With the exception of the IT group the rest of the office was XP. Fast forward a couple of weeks and I had scheduled a "check up" to see how things were going. I was getting worried because I had not heard anything out of most of them. My guess was they freaked out and just did not use the notebooks. Instead I found out that they really like their "new, fast computers". They especially liked the non-Ribbon interface of Open Office over what they had seen from Office 2010. Now a few things to point out... These were typical “worker drone” users here. No special software like AutoCad, Photoshop, etc is needed in their daily work. Give them a web browser and “Office” and they have what they need. I did have a problem getting the notebooks to print to a networked Ricoh copier/scanner/kitchensink device, but the Ricoh was brand new at the time so that might not be an issue if it was a little older. All in all the experiment worked out much better than I expected. All except one of the users wanted to keep their notebooks around, so since they were working ok we let them until it came time for us to change out the dept’s computers to Win 7. When we changed over, they received notebooks with docking stations instead of desktops so there was no need for the linux notebooks. This might be an anomaly instead of the rule, but considering the target users, it all worked out better than I expected. I have not tried a similar experiment since Unity came around. I think that would cause a much more "alien" feel to it than the older version of Ubuntu did. Not that users can't get used to it, but if one of the goals is to minimize distraction and alienation, then I don't think Unity will help matters much.
I once enjoyed the thought of 'liberating' my friends and family from the shackles of Windows in a similar way. I even installed Ubuntu on a client's computer when I worked in a repair shop, when a desperate mother came seeking a way for her daughter to avoid viruses.
After installing Ubuntu, the client responded positively. Shortly after, I got a call asking how to get their printer working, and how to install MSN messenger. I scrambled to find a *nix clone...ah, aMSN, bingo! OK, install from repos, done.
Now, printer. OK, bring it in with the computer so I can install it. It's a Canon, but it's not in the default CUPS package (at the time). Hit up Canon's website. They have a binary, but it doesn't install right. Crap. I don't remember how it worked out, but I think I got it working after several hours of free labor.
Moral of the story is: don't do this unless you're 100% OK with hand-holding each one of these people with every issue that arises, and are willing to take responsibility for failure if you can't fix a problem.
IMO, desktop Linux is currently appropriate for two audiences: tech-savvy, capable adventurers who want to try something new and don't mind finding answers on their own, or the very computer illiterate, who use machines for literally just getting online and checking email. Even then, you run some risks.
I've moved over 10 users from XP to Ubuntu 10.04, mostly people whose XP install was beyond repair with malware, and who never made or had lost their system recovery disks. I've had zero complaints and of the users converted, I get far less calls for assistance than I do from the others I support who are still on XP or Vista. I'm currently trying out 12.04 on my personal machines, and as far as I'm concerned, Ubuntu has jumped the shark with Unity. I see both Windows and Ubuntu going down this insane "everybody gets a play-skool tablet interface, even on a desktop" road. I'm seriously looking at Mint for future migrations from XP vs Ubuntu, once 10.04LTS gets close to End Of Support...
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
This is the problem with stupid linux zealots (all linux zealots):
You probably recognize the main problem with linux being that not as many games/applications support linux.
You (stupidly) think that the solution is to educate people about linux and migrate people over to linux so that it is a wider platform and hence there will be more motivation for people to port or write their applications to/for linux.
The real solution is to make a linux variant that natively runs windows x86 and x64 apps. Without needing an emulator or utility of any kind. No learning curve.
Learning curve puts people off.
I'm a fucking genius and it puts me off.
Linux zealots are idiots and could be fighting a winning battle if they'd approach this the right way.
Now mod me down as a troll since you're all linux zealots and reason is basically the same thing to you that it is to religious freaks: vitrol and poison.
Go arch !
Unless you understand the above two conditions you will be creating more enemies rather than friends of Linux. So far I successfully converted my parents, my grandfather and a friend who's Windows install was held hostage by a hard-to-remove Trojan, but she will go back to Windows at first opportunity.
In Argentina we have one. I don't know if they have an english version. It's called Rxart http://www.pixartargentina.com.ar/
Why, if they're both hateful and fearful of change, would they need to change? Why not a newer version of Windows or a Mac?
First, the Windows 8 Start Screen is a huge shock to anyone who hasn't already been using a Windows Phone. Second, the Mac would be at least as big a change as Unity and a bigger change than Xfce, and far more expensive at that. Otherwise, I agree with your task-centered view of deciding whether and how to switch.
I get the feeling that this is a guy that reads but doesn't learn, operates but doesn't understand what he's doing. Ye gawds, six weeks with RedHat training should teach you *something*.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
You don't have Linux trying to overcomplicate something simple like plugging in a hard drive or an Android device and just using it.
Yes you do. Android devices running Android 3.x or 4.x connect to the computer using file-level access through MTP instead of a FAT-formatted mass storage device, and even the latest Xubuntu doesn't recognize MTP devices. One currently has to do some edit some config files as root and manually mount and unmount devices using command line aliases. Though these instructions work for fairly small files, when I tried copying a large (162 MB) file to my Nexus 7 tablet with these instructions, it ended up 0 bytes.
http://zorin-os.com/Zorin-OS is an Ubuntu derivative design precisely for this purpose.
Personally I think presenting users with a mock-up of Windows that isn't Windows is counter-productive because IMHO Windows' desktop environment is continually flawed and year's behind the current crop of open desktop environments.
Personally I prefer to show those who are interested the popular DE's such as Gnome3, Cinnamon, Unity & (less so) KDE in their unaltered glory as these show really how backward the whole 'Windows way' is nowadays.
CN=poolmeister.OU=lurkers.CN=slashdot
The proper time to suggest a Linux Desktop is when people ask you for free Windows OS license keys.
Really? Moving to Linux? If you are asking this question, I suggest your friends try OS X. It's dummy proof.
Just trolling.
I switched in 2006 when Gnome 2 was still viable, and the transition was painful for about six months. I am a long-term UNIX and Linux user who had a Windows 2000 desktop for terminal emulation and a few apps. I felt like a blind man whose house had been rearranged. Very difficult transition. I stuck with Win2K after the hardware activation thing was added to Win, since I build and change my own boxes, but eventually I moved to Linux - and I really wanted to, and was determined to stick it out. Doesn't really matter about the distro (all will be alien landscapes at first!), although KDE is much closer to Win7 than Gnome 2, and I wouldn't wish Gnome 3 or Unity on anyone.
The only way anyone would change is if staying with Windows was more painful than switching, and I don't see that happening. For me, even as a long-term experienced UNIX user, it was painful.
Also you have to prepare them for the reality that Linux distros have no real regression testing and things that used to work just stop working after an upgrade, and some bugs never get solved. And the user must be prepared for GRUB (or LILO back in the day) to flake out or get trashed - what do you do when you upgrade and your computer will not start? Or your graphics do not start? You have to be hardcore to want to use Linux.
The difference between Linux and Windows/OSX/KDE/Gnome is, that with Linux, you have a computer, and use it like a computer, and with those artificially limited dumbed-down GUIs, you have an appliance implemented with a computer, and you use it like an appliance.
It's a completely different approach.
And if you only did the latter, you never actually used a computer. So Linux (excluding KDE/Gnome) may not be for you.
Don't try to appeal to them, by forcing Linux into the "retard appliance" model. They are smarter than this, and having access to an actual computer interface for the first time in their lives is an awesome thing.
What you have to make their mouths water with, is the automatability. The ability, to automate your work away. Making the computer a universally useful device in the first place. /proc), how to use config and data files (/etc, INI, XML) udev (e.g. triggers), cron, and dbus (e.g. via qdbus),
So what they should learn, is a shell (e.g. bash/zsh) including the important commands, how to use the file system (including
Because if it can't be done with these tools (if I haven't forgotten something important right now), it's not Linux.
That doesn't mean you can't use tools, and with them indirectly use the above. But you should always have the ability to do it directly, on your own.
If you don't realize the huge advantages of this right now, you're not a computer user either.
(Yeah, I'll probably get modded down for this by the kids and "average users", because they can't even imagine the perspective [yet].)
This guys is throwing up one of those "hybrid-laptops". He's found his corner case and he's going to troll it for everything it's worth.
Really? So it's considered a "troll" for someone to explain clearly and calmly why his laptop didn't run as well under linux? He even talked about how it's improving over time and he plans to try again.
I've had numerous machines that have problems with linux in one area or another, as well as numerous machines that work fine with it. Does that mean I'm a troll looking for corner-cases? Attitudes like yours, immediately dismissing and mocking anyone who has hardware that isn't perfectly supported, is one of the reasons that linux doesn't get adopted as quickly.
I'm amazed that this got modded to +5 informative.
Google would probably start adding non-standard extensions to it, slowly diverging it from other GNU/Linux distros (as has happened with Chromium).
Even if they document everything publicly, stuff made for Googlinux won't work in other distros in time.
Can you, oh Wise Ones of Slashdot, recommend a Lunix setup that will be as similar as possible to a Windows environment (Windows 7 or XP)
Yes, I can: Don't.
What you are trying is creating a rip-off. No matter how much better Linux is, no matter how close you come to the experience your test subjects have now, there will be some tiny little detail that is different and that will convince them that Linux sucks.
"Humans are funny", in the words of Tim Minchhin.
You should face their fears. Give them something that is different, but so well set up that they appreciate the difference. Look at Apple - every single one of their successful products for the past years worked like that. It was different - and better - than what else was on the market at the time. Getting used to an iPhone when you had a Nokia for several years did take a short while, but very, very quickly you wanted to do it, because it was the better experience.
You will not succeed in convincing someone that Linux is better by making it look like a cheap rip-off of their old windows environment. In the workplace, retraining costs are a factor that might justify such a decision, because most office drones have no intrinsic motivation for a change.
But that is exactly what you need to tap. Don't find out what your test subjects like about windows, you shouldn't care. Find out what they hate about it, and make sure that your Linux system is better in that regards and put this advantage in their face. If they hate the start menu (and who doesn't?), find a nice launcher application that opens automatically when they log in. If they hate how long it takes to boot, do everything to speed up your systems boot process and window system startup. If they hate UAC and all the other thousand notifications windows throws at you every other second ("scan started", "mouse found", "keyboad in different USB port this time", "someone posted something on the Internet", "look, I have WiFi!", "driver out of date", "are you still reading this?"...) then make sure that the notification system on your Linux box is set to be as unobtrusive and silent as possible.
Don't make the same mistake that some Linux freaks have been making for 10 years, probably the main reason the year of the Linux desktop has never happened and never will. Don't try to provide a better windows. Convince them of Linux, including the fact that it is different. Fear of change is vastly overrated. People don't fear change per se, they fear loss (of skills and knowledge) and disorientation. Address these fears instead of trying to avoid them.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Missing crucial software like Photoshop/MS Office
If you absolutely have to run some MS software, check Codeweavers.com Crossover. It has an evaluation period and is very reasonably priced if you take the plunge.
It provides the OS hooks that Windows applications need to run natively in Linux - no virtual machines. Office works great and so do a lot of other applications. Codeweavers has a list of both known good and known bad software.
Consider giving them a try. I use their software and it works great for the few Windows applications I still run (circuit design and layout, etc.).
If you're talking about a ley windows user, that means not installing the OS themselves and not setting up accounts themselves. Kubuntu is aesthetically very close to windows with a similar file manager and start menu. Nearly everything can be done via the gui while exposing the terminal to anyone who wants to learn more and become more of a power user.
The only problems I had with Kubuntu was 10.10 not working with an old broadcom wireless card out of the block and having to install ndiswrapper from source to get it working, but I've had similar issues installing vista and win7 on certain laptops.
There is no memory shortage. yes I have heard of XFCE. Go away.
This is reply to you and almost every single post above it claiming "Well it's easy, you just _____." You all posted complex but correct solutions to the problem BUT you'd have to be a Linux expert to know them in the first place. I have no idea what their file structure is or what any of the text commands are since, once again, I am not a Linux expert. That alone proved my point. Ubuntu is supposed to be the version for any random person who's good with computers but not used to Linux to sit down and use. Since I was a person who wasn't used to Linux and I sat down and used it and it went poorly, all the complex workarounds and fixes in the world don't matter because it failed to work properly "as is" to an inexperienced user. But thanks for defending the stereotype that you have to be an absolute know-everything expert to use any versions of Linux.
I have an idea
Go grab some random person off the street and sit them down at Ubuntu and tell them to install a piece of software as a test for ease of use and then yell at them for not knowing to type in a command to run the shell as root and see if that still seems logical to you.
As it has to be like Windows 7 or XP, and these people will latch onto nearly any noticeable differences, I'd do what I used to do for my own work PC:
Use a screenshot of a Windows XP/7 desktop as desktop background and remove any icons, bars and other decorations of the underlying Linux desktop. This is as similar to Windows as you can get ...
I realize you're joking, but my wife can order shoes on Ubuntu 12.04 with no problems at all and she's probably one of the least technical people I know.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Bold statement, there.
To rephrase (and it's really not stated clearly) - you don't think a Linux Vendor has produced a packaged Linux based OS that does not require a "command line".
Wrong.
- Android (Linux)
- Fedora (16, 17, and as far back as 8). Gnome or even XFCE (Linux)
- Mac OS X (BSD)
Now, I am glad that you qualified your statement with "that Windows has a button for". So that's two "Linux OSs", and one "BSD OS" over a bunch of versions.
I'm surprised about Ubuntu (not that I am all that aware of it).
It is clear that you consider command line usage a "flaw".
But, to supply a typical example: someone wanted to know how to change a user's UID and GID (Unix/Linux user id and group id). The answer?
Log in as root, and "vi /etc/passwd". Find and change the line referencing the user. "vi /etc/group" and do the same for the group.
Type "find / -uid 1000 -exec chown 2000:2000 '{}' \+"
to change ownership of the files from user uid 1000 to uid 2000 : gid 2000 (replace the numbers with your desired numbers).
It is fairly obvious that with a small amount of Unix lore, this administration task can be successfully completed. The instructions can be made even more specific, if needed. It is specific to Unix (Linux), and will only ever be needed by someone running NFS in a networked environment (or, possibly, running a license server). In other words, in an office/work environment by an experienced admin, or by a small fraction of home users (a very small fraction).
Is it worth making a button for this? I think the answer is NO. I wouldn't even know where to look for such a thing -- it would take more instructions on how to use it, as compared to "cut and paste into a terminal".
There is common stuff that I would find trivial under Unix (Linux) that I would have no idea how to approach under Windows.
Not CRITICAL stuff; just "nice to have". When I run across one, I just give my head a shake, and ignore it. I expect that you are the same with Linux.
The people who should be or are using Linux know why. I can't advocate change just for change. There must be some benefit.
It may be hardware support. It may be POSIX compliance. It may be performance related. It may be something completely different.
For example -- with 2 and 3TB consumer drives available, I usually recommend a scrubbing, redundant file system. Like ZFS. Of course, that requires Solaris, Linux, BSD or MAC OS X (and it was removed from OS X). Linux has more hardware support, so it would be the choice. At least for the file server. Or, use BSD for a home NAS.
A reason to use Unix!
Talk with the users. Find out what they are after. You can even sell them a service. I wouldn't transition "Joe or Josephine Random" from Microsoft Windows to Unix (Linux, BSD, Apple) without a discussion.
Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
If he's using a Mac, probably a *BSD variant.
As your college for a refund, if you didn't cover something as basic as this either they or you are at fault.
What a maroon.. If you feel the need for root in Ubuntu, its trivially easy to turn it on.. I gotta believe you installed Ubuntu, ran it till you found the first little "nit" then decided that nobody should run Ubuntu.. Most "administratory" gui things in Ubuntu will use gksu to prompt you for YOUR password and then run just as though they were being run by root... Its BLINDINGLY obvious you didn't use Ubuntu for more than a few minutes..
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
The start button is when you right click anywhere on the desktop. Same concept.
Fluxbox kind of sucks though, no support for true transparency, no anti-aliasing, the devs don't fix bugs...
OpenBox FTW :)
If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
And you've completely missed the point of my entire argument. I never said Linux was easy. How easy Linux is to use isn't even the issue. Furthermore, there IS no "Linux". There is a linux kernel, and there are different distributions based on that.
You argued that Ubuntu was crap, with the implication that it was crap because it didn't match what you learned for Redhat. That is no different than saying OSX is bad because you learned Windows, and OSX is nothing like windows. Or vise versa. They are all different operating systems.
If your experience is so poor that you are only just learning how to even *start*, then the correct response in this discussion is to not say anything. You should be listening/reading and learning from others that DO know.
What you did was to pretend that you knew more than you did, and give incorrect advise as a result. THAT was my point.
Don't get me wrong, I'm running both BSD and Linux (and yes, some Windows) at home myself, and really do believe in using the right tool for the right job, so I'm not here to defend MS.
That being said, one does have to wonder if you _should_ be given a shot at this if A) you don't even have enough background to figure out the basics of such an implementation out, and B) the basis of your decision making process is a Slashdot posting.
I'll reply immediately as you put a lot of effort into this post so deserve a reply, but please note that I'm currently on a train (Somewhat ironically using an android device).
Anyway. It's debatable that android or OSX really count as Linux systems. Android shares the Linux kernel, so I guess it is, technically, as much of a Linux OS as any other, but it's certainly a whole lot more locked down and I'm not sure it's relevant in our discussion on DESKTOP Linux use.
It's not that I think the command line is a flaw, it's just that normal, non-tech-savvy users won't touch it with a barge pole. Your "typical" example just goes to show the different mentalities involved. Sure, it takes a matter of seconds to perform a user name change, compared to digging inside menus and forms for the right button, but that doesn't mean it's easier. I'm talking about people who barely grasp the concept of emails and start to panic if their home page changes. The harsh reality is that they make up a HUGE portion of the market.
My son who never reads he manuals and just figures out from reading the menus and icons. And my wife who can't learn that way and is an absolute keystroke by keystroke person and if I tell her how do do something and misuse the term that is on the button (but means the same thing) she is flummoxed.
Really think you'll ever satisfy the latter type? Now figure out where in the power structure those types are and proceed with extreme caution.
My experience with accompanying users out of MS land is that they expect some change. They just want it to be painless. They know that things will be a bit different, that they need to learn a few things to make it work well.
My suggestion is Ubuntu, possibly using gnome classic, depending on users' tastes.
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
But you should answer your self some questions first.
Do your friends depend on microsoft's propietary fonts, formats, etc. or do they use windows only software to do their jobs (e.g. Autocad)? If that is the case please leave them alone until ODF becomes de jure standard and MS is forced to implement it right and use it as default or the software they use to make a living becomes available in Linux. Until then please don't mess with their machines if they aren't asking for it and they aren't willing to go the dual-boot way.
Do your friends play high-end games? If that is the case wait until we see how steam fares in Linux, if it does well and they do not depend on MS for a living it surely be worth it.
I'm a big proponent of free-as-in-free-speech software, you might even tag me as a fan of RMS. But unlike Saint Ignucius I reckon that propietary software is still needed for a variety of reasons, namely dirty monopolic tactis, unwillingness of developers to port their useful applications and accountability (this last one mainly for big expensive corporate or government applications, they show willingness to move to free software as soon as a company like RedHat shows up and makes itself accountable). In the past ease of use was a major problem but thankfully that is no longer the case.
In the mean time instead of forcing them to use an strange computing enviroment to advance your ideolgical agenda (Because you are doing it for ideology right?) try talk to them about why is important to us as a society to build and mantain al kinds of free software, maybe they show more insterest this way and you will not alienate them from the movement forever.
Urm.. Try "sudo bash" one day?
These people hate and fear change, and so will latch onto nearly any noticeable differences, so I'm thinking in terms of both front end functionality and the look of the interface.
You will not find a perfect Windows interface on Linux, so with that sort of person don't try. They will complain no matter what. They will complain if you move to Windows 8 too, because it is different too.
Instead of trying the impossible (pleasing the terminally unpleased), instead concentrate on picking something that is intuitive enough, that you can easily support (remotely if needed), and that works in your environment more-or-less out of the box.
As others have pointed out, don't change everything at once. If the tools you intend to use are cross-platform, introduce them under Windows first. That way you will take a few relatively small productivity hits as people get used to the new tools then get used to the new OS running them, instead of one huge productivity hit when everything changes at once.
Shoes.
Shoes.
OMG shoes!
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
"I'm still depressed that Canonical and Gnome both picked a very bad time to screw around with their usability. "
No problem. Piss on Unity, do this instead:
"GNOME Classic in Ubuntu 12.04: Itâ(TM)s Like Nothing Ever Changed"
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/03/gnome-classic-in-ubuntu-12-04-its-like-nothing-ever-changed
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Why not avoid Ubuntu altogether? OpenSUSE being fanfuckingtastic and all that.
http://zorin-os.com/
I don't try to get Windows users to switch to Linux because they already own a PC loaded with Windows, but this looks interesting.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Hey
I'm your life
I'm the one who takes you there
Hey
I'm your life
I'm the one who cares
They
They betray
I'm your only true friend now
They
They'll betray
I'm forever there
I'm your dream, make you real
I'm your eyes when you must steal
I'm your pain when you can't feel
Troll but true
I'm your dream, mind astray
I'm your eyes while you're away
I'm your pain while you repay
You know it's troll but true
You
You're my mask
You're my cover, my shelter
You
You're my mask
You're the one who's blamed
Do
Do my work
Do my dirty work, scapegoat
Do
Do my deeds
For you're the one who's shamed
I'm your dream, make you real
I'm your eyes when you must steal
I'm your pain when you can't feel
Troll but true
I'm your dream, mind astray
I'm your eyes while you're away
I'm your pain while you repay
You know it's troll but true
Hate
I'm your hate
I'm your hate when you want love
Pay
Pay the price
Pay, for nothing's fair
Hey
I'm your life
I'm the one who took you there
Hey
I'm your life
And I no longer care
I'm your dream, make you real
I'm your eyes when you must steal
I'm your pain when you can't feel
Troll but true
I'm your truth, telling lies
I'm your reasoned alibis
I'm inside open your eyes
I'm you
Troll But True
never be supported? From that link is project Bumblebee, which is working on supporting it...
I was going to buy one of those, but when Sandy Bridge was recalled I couldn't find one that met my GPU and display needs (I'm a dev - if I don't have at least 1920x1080 or 2-3 monitors I have trouble operating, and I need a good GPU because my work and non-work projects both use it)
Terminal commands will always offer more granular control than clicking an icon.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
I'm not convinced that Unity is the best option for people that just want to run apps. Half the time I can't even figure out what programs I have installed because it's so clunky. Say what you want about the Windows Start menu, but at least I can browse to find programs that I installed a year ago and forgot that I had. My other beef is that the application bar is on the left over where the file menu is. I'm always accidentally clicking on the application bar, causing endless frustration. If you auto hide the application bar, it's even worse!
I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
Ah, but can she get socks?
vi +
I took a notebook running kubuntu to a bar last year, and of course someone came up and asked "what version of Windows is that?"
Free Martian Whores!
ubuntu. enough said
Nicely trolled, sir!
What kind of person are you talking about? Regular user? Change-adverse relative? Windows admin? My recommendation would depend on your answer.
I can't speak for the regular user, but as a Windows admin who supports a parent I can speak to the others. If you're dealing with a change-adverse relative (or any other person with a similar temperament, forget it. Maybe if you drop hints for a year or so they may become interested enough to think about a distro.
If you're talking about a Windows admin, just say the following two words and they'll be hooked. Ready?
command history
That's what did it for me. If that fails, throw the RC of Server 2012 at them. If THAT doesn't do it, forget it.
If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.
Fuck that. I'm never trying another Ubuntu install until the download page says 64 bit (recommended). For some reason, is says "recommended" next to the 32 bit selection on the drop down. I have run the 64bit version extensively and have tried to get it running properly, no dice. Why would you use a 32 bit OS these days? It is slower and limited on memory.
I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
Ubuntu is a good transition from Windows to Linux. It has a large user base and comes with some good features...
I've run versions of it on PC's as well as small embedded boards like Beagleboard ( http://beagleboard.org/ ) with pretty good success.
But in many cases OS choices boil down to a business decisions.
The staff have to want to change, or someone empowered needs to want to change.
Wow, "Wise ones of Slashdot". I now feel I must pontificate.
"Businesses in general fear change, but successful business embrace it."
Here's my top ten list:
1) Problems are opportunities to innovate. Look for ways to do something better.
2) Embrace risk. Remember that we live in a world of chaos. Accept that and change with it or be left behind.
3) Be disciplined with goals, execute on your plans.
4) Nothing is perfect, so just fix the plan as you go.
5) Learn from your mistakes.
6) Try to not reinvent the wheel. If it's not being done invent it, if it is being done then use it.
7) Like one of my first Eng professors said, "Let the Math work for you" Make sure the math works.
8) Bring together others who share your vision(s).
9) There are going to be difficult roads ahead, but whining about it is a waste of time. Get over it.
10) Sacrifice to be a success, but find a balance. HFFW. Health - Family - Friends - Work.
In closing, a kayaking guide in the Everglades once told me:
"If you love what you do for work, you never have to work another day in your life..."
-DC-
But most third party apps like skype and spotify and such that you won't find in most distro's repos are built for Ubuntu. Steam is going to be built for Ubuntu too. Random little apps that interact with android and iOs devices are usually written for Ubuntu if a Linux version exists (example: remotedroid). For this reason, I usually install Mint on friends computers that want to use Linux without having to learn anything about it.
What if I want to be condescending?
PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
I've personally given up on trying to convert people to linux. If you can't even be bothered to learn how to install it yourself, what's the point?
-- Its survival of the fittest...and we got the fucking guns!!!
I have random freezes and reboots on Linux Mint 12 with nothing printed in the logs. Four other versions of Linux and one Windows 7 partition never had a similar problem, so the Mint developers must have changed some driver settings in a particularly unfortunate way.
Although I've used multiple distros, I would have to suggest Linux Mint because of the familiarity of the interface layout that windows users experience. "Start" button in the lower left hand corner, expanding to show programs / system settings / etc..
Ubuntu 12.04 is a strong candidate as well for ease of use, strong support, and great repo.
Hardcore linux users often forget when they were noobs. The linux learning curve can be brutal for those who aren't as computer saavy. Although they may not be the distros that are favored by the power users, I think Mint and Ubuntu help make the transition from Windows easier than other distros.
Thanks for adding to the info. Would you mind sharing at lease the info about your hardware and maybe the kernel version and a list of modules that were loaded? If ssasa would post his info as well, perhaps we could look for similarities and get that info to the mint devs. I run Ubuntu myself, but I like trying to assist other projects when the opportunity arises.
What is the purpose of the change? To bring Linux in just because it's an alternative to Windows is just idiotic. I've heard it from the engineers that work under me, and then I try to let them explain before I bash them in the face with logic.
Companies don't CARE what OS works for them, so long as it lets them do their job. Replacing things and moving to Linux are first, usually a HUGE move, and secondly, bring HUGE impacts in terms of productivity and support. I can bring in Linux on the desktop and what do I gain? Almost nothing. The stability isn't an issue -- Windows 7 has been fine. Office productivity would be down because we use Sharepoint/Office/Lync and it works together seamlessly and with a relatively low cost. We'd be UP in the amount of time to troubleshoot issues because Linux can't be administered in the same way for user issues... it's a case by case basis, and while I could push VNC to all the machines, it's retraining all of my IT people to do things entirely different.
Computers, software, hardware are TOOLS. It's what annoys me greatly about Slashdot that it seems that many folks think that "Linux is the answer!" but never bother to list the question or reason for using it. There are instances in which I think Linux is great -- we run Linux servers all over the place. But Linux hasn't earned its place on the desktop because it's simply NOT BETTER, and if it's not better by a good margin, there is no point in switching.
So again -- answer it... WHY switch, and what are the benefits?
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
This is yet another Ubuntu clone. Just too similar, with a different UI that doesn't suck like gnome shell and you can switch between 3 looks: Windows 7, Windows XP, Classic Gnome. You take a look at that UI, plus Ubuntu's robustness and you have the perfect transition-to-linux OS for Windows users looking for a change. BTW, Zorin OS only comes out every time an Ubuntu LTS version does. nuff said.
9 weeks of Redhat training at my college I was like hey, let's check out Linux.
Didn't your training include hands on experience on a RHEL box?
So I downloaded Ubuntu
If your training was on Red Hat, why didn't you use that or Fedora?
There is no root (aka Admin) login by default and no GUI ability to run things as root.
Sure there is. There's always a root account and it's always possible to run a GUI tool as root, though usually you don't need to. Ubuntu doesn't have you assign a root password by default, because you're supposed to use "sudo" on Ubuntu. If you had installed RH, you would have been asked to give root a password at install time.
Besides, didn't you have any Ubuntu documention? websites, books?
. I gave up after trying to install Java.
What? openjdk wasn't installed by default? Did you install via CD? If so, THAT was your real problem. Never install from CD unless you absolutely have to, always use the DVD. Too many distros still make the CD the default download.
And even if openjdk isn't installed by default.... it should be easy to install on ubuntu with the software center GUI or whatever that thing is called.
Aside from just giving them something llike Zorin or PCLinuxOS, I think MATE would be an excellent choice. Stable, reliable and familar to most - especially with Mint's tweaking.
you'd have to be a Linux expert to know them in the first place.
And what is wrong with that, exactly? There is literally no reason to use the root account directly 99% of the time. Is it a problem that you have to be an expert to figure out how to do it while doing other expert stuff? No. And I'm saying this even though it's really not expert knowledge.
I have no idea what their file structure is or what any of the text commands are since, once again, I am not a Linux expert.
So why do you expect to be able to do complex stuff if you are incompetent?
Ubuntu is supposed to be the version for any random person who's good with computers but not used to Linux to sit down and use.
And Ubuntu will be easy to use for any random person that doesn't want to fuck about the root account for no reason.
But thanks for defending the stereotype that you have to be an absolute know-everything expert to use any versions of Linux.
We're not talking about "using" here. We're talking about purposely taking control of the most important account on the entire OS, something that the average user will never have to do. This has NOTHING to do with the typical ease of use of Ubuntu, and only has to do with how flipping retarded you have to be in the first place to expect this shit to be easy for your grand mother. Let me tell you, it's not easier on Windows to gain access to SYSTEM.
Go grab some random person off the street and sit them down at Ubuntu and tell them to install a piece of software as a test for ease of use
Sure. That person will either use "sudo apt-get" if they are a power user or they will use the graphical interface (synaptic) if they are not a power user. In both cases, they will not need to use the root account directly, only through their own user passwords (using sudo/gksudo).
and then yell at them for not knowing to type in a command to run the shell as root and see if that still seems logical to you.
What's illogical is running a shell as root for no reason whatsoever.
Get the Redmond theme or something similar and add some Microsoft branding to make it look even more authentic. Install wine, of course. Microsoft Office 2007 works great on Wine so install that too. Move all of their files over. Then let them at it.
Maybe they won't even notice. If they do, just tell them it was an update from Microsoft or something stupid like that.
1. Stopwatch how long it takes to get to the desktop AND settle down so you can get some work done
2. Show them Win-8 and Linux-? and ask "Which looks more like what you're accustomed to?"
3. Linux-? should be some variant of Mint as it includes the codecs needed in case they go to play their favorite Rickroll, it actually works, unlike *buntu.
There is nothing wrong with yr Internet. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling the transmission - NSA
You all posted complex but correct solutions to the problem
I have not read anything that was complex - to someone who managed to read a beginner's manual to the operating system in question.
BUT you'd have to be a Linux expert to know them in the first place.
No. You need some basic knowledge.
I have no idea what their file structure is
Why would you need to know?
or what any of the text commands are since, once again, I am not a Linux expert.
I have mostly read the most basic commands everybody who has read a basic beginner tutorial to working with the command line should know.
That alone proved my point.
But your point is not useful.
Ubuntu is supposed to be the version for any random person who's good with computers but not used to Linux to sit down and use.
Given that person can read, understand and follow a manual.
Since I was a person who wasn't used to Linux and I sat down and used it and it went poorly, all the complex workarounds and fixes in the world don't matter because it failed to work properly "as is" to an inexperienced user.
Yes, you need to read a manual to know what you are doing.
But thanks for defending the stereotype that you have to be an absolute know-everything expert to use any versions of Linux.
No, you need basic knowledge about the system you are trying to use.
Go grab some random person off the street and sit them down at Ubuntu and tell them to install a piece of software as a test for ease of use and then yell at them for not knowing to type in a command to run the shell as root and see if that still seems logical to you.
Since I am in germany I would give that person the article in the german ubuntu wiki (which is by the way really good) about the basics:
http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Grundlagen
So the user you have in mind would know much more about Linux in a few hours than he/she has ever learned about windows. I am a firm believer that the time spent acquiring that knowledge pays off quickly when you are able to work more efficiently and when you are able to troubleshoot little things yourself.
You may have the opinion that everything must be usable with zero knowledge about the usability concepts but I don't think that is a goal really worth working for. Windows is trying hard but if you are on slashdot you are "internet-savy" enaugh to know all those stories of horribly inefficient users that effort has produced...
Could have milked that situation for fun and profit..
"Oh this? I really shouldn't tell you this, but it's a advance release edition of Windows 8 for software developers."
"Cool! it looks really slick.. Know how I could get a copy?"
Looking around furtively, you reply; "Do you have any idea how secretive they are in Redmond? I could be fired/sued just for letting you see what you have already!"
"Well as long as you're in for a penny, do you think you could make a copy for me?"
"Oh gee... well there's absolutely no way that I can just give you a copy of the disk, you see, the installer is serialized and we'd both certainly get nastygrams from Microsoft's lawyers if we tried that, but... " (continue looking nervous and gasping for air)
"But what?"
(whispering very quietly) "You seem honest enough... If you brought me your laptop, I might be able to scrub the install codes and serial numbers, but I'd need at least a couple weeks to work on that and I'd have to charge for my time working on it, so you'd really be better off waiting 'til it's released publicly next year.."
"Really? How much would you charge?"
"You have to remember that we're talking about over 6 gigabytes of code I'd have to pore over to make sure it doesn't incriminate me and jeopardize you in the process."
"C',mon. just name your price!"
(looking flushed) "Keep your voice down.. We don't know who else is here, but for the hours I'd have to work on it, I'd normally be compensated around 5K, but since I'll benefit somewhat from analyzing the binaries, I suppose I could do it for you for maybe 1500."
"That is a lot of money!"
"Listen, I told you you'd be better off waiting. I don't work for free, I hope you understand that, but you are the one who's been expressing such an interest."
"True.. Look could I give you half in advance and the balance on delivery?"
(rubbing your temple for a couple of seconds) "I suppose I could work with you on that."
"Okay, deal!"
Now just install Ubuntu, and set up a few wallpaper images bearing a Windows 8 logo along with a Banner stating "For Development Use Only" on each one, Delete any stock backgrounds depicting penguins, or specifying Linux, Ubuntu, or such... Stick it in the closet and stall him when he calls over the next three weeks stating that you are still analyzing, debugging, getting video drivers to work, etc.. before giving it back to him a month later upon receipt of the final payment.
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Besides, I know for fact that these optimus systems aren't all that great on Windows either. It often has trouble detecting what it should do, and fails miserably. My brother has an identical laptop and getting the original GTA3 to run on it was horrible.
With your requirements, no laptop is ever going to be good enough. There are no desktop NVidea Optimus cards as far as I know. (I should Google, I'm not all that certain)
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
sex with an inflatable Linux doll wearing make up, high heels, and a cotton candy wig?
My keyboard or my brain wasn't entirely up to the task of typing when I typed. :-P Sorry. Anyway, basically I was trying to say that I don't think Unity can be installed on Mint. If that's the case, then it might be useful to expose users to Ubuntu, since it would give new Linux users a way to explore more options than they'd have on Mint. I just looked it up though, and it turns out that it can be installed on Mint so my point was moot. So that probably means my brain wasn't up to the task of typing when I commented earlier. BTW, I've also heard hoards are leaving Ubuntu, but I've also heard that is not what the stats really say -- http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/02/stats-show-ubuntu-not-losing-ground-to-linux-mint
Actually, I'm using Gnome Shell on my Ubuntu netbook and I've run into quite a few problems. My main reason for choosing Gnome Shell over Unity is that I can't stand click to focus. I don't particularly hate Unity except that it's completely unusable for me if they don't add focus follows mouse capability. But the problem is that even in Gnome Shell on my Ubuntu box I run into all sorts of focus based problems. The firefox awesome bar (or whatever it's called) doesn't work most of the time (it won't redraw) for example. Windows also just seem to lose focus and I have to click around to get it back. I can't say for sure that it's an Ubuntu problem except that my desktop, which is running Sabayon, has no problems at all.
Over time I've gotten more and more disappointed with Ubuntu. They seem to be targeting it to a particular type of user, which isn't me. I have no problem with that and I even thing it's great for a distro to go after a specific market. The problem is that they seem to break everything that they aren't interested in. I can't just ignore what they are doing and do my own thing. Lately my advice to people thinking of using Ubuntu is to only use it if they like what Ubuntu is doing. If not, choose a different distro because rolling your own solution in Ubuntu is likely to break. Or at least that's my experience these days.
To be honest I like Unity's user interface. I think everyone else hating on it haven't really given it a chance. Though, I think its unfortunate they chose the same name as the one being used for Unity3D, because it creates a lot of confusion. When I search for unity I get mixed results now.
"I am trying to convince a number of people to give Linux a chance..."
Isn't trying to convert people part of the cultish behaviour we really don't like around here?
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
Seriously? Linux still exists?
The Ubuntu forums and question/answer websites are quite good to newbies. People are nice there.
Haven't checked out the Debian community lately to compare, though.
No sig for the moment.
You need to start them on FOSS first, otherwise they'll get confused about two different things, namely the programs and the operating system. Once people have got used to LibreOffice and Firefox (as an example of the first programs to feed them), it's much easier to transition to Linux -- "It's Firefox, I know this" rather than "It's a Unix system, I know this."
Ask me about repetitive DNA
I reformatted my partition of Linux Mint and replaced it with Ubuntu 12.04, and I'm not going to reinstall just for the sake of forensics. I realize it would have been better for the Mint community if I had spent more time tracking down the problem, and I'm sorry I did not.
My hardware is not that unusual - ASUS m4A785TD-V motherboard, AMD Phenom XT1090 processor, AMD Radeon HD 5770 video card using the open source drivers, SATA 7200 RPM 1TB drive with partitions formatted ext4, 12 GB of RAM, no overclocking.
The only software I had installed that you couldn't obtain using the default Linux Minut software package repositories was the Linux clients for Google Music and the Spideroak backup service.
Any Linux you are familiar with is fine for installing on other people's computers. Do the install with a working wired ethernet connection. Allow time for you to test the installation and fix the occasional driver installation problem.
I administer a email group and I have a steady stream of people who get spontaneously unsubscribed due to various combinations of Windows browser automation, multiple home users sharing one account and a multitude of creepy things that happen on Windows computers.
I am inclined to offer to install Linux on home computers. I figure, each install should have 1 hour install, 1 hour orientation to making a password file and using a password manager and 1 hour to set up Evolution Mail and a gmail address. It also seems to me that I should supply a slim 3-ring binder with printed cheat sheets
I just added the latest Ubuntu 12 to a 2008 vintage Compaq laptop that came with Windows 7 installed.
The situation is Linux still requires an occasional administrator level intervention. My latest installation required internet research and manual editing of a /etc file.
The Ubuntu installation required a manual intervention to prevent a Broadcom 43xx wireless driver from loading and I had to force an alternate driver to load by editing a file in /etc. The problem became a 20 minute permanent fix once I remembered how Debian Linux boots and loads drivers and I found a web page reminding me of the /etc file area that had to be edited.
I'll add, reading Ubuntu forums and those cryptic two line Linux guru solutions was a waste. I learned how Linux works so long ago that the cryptic guru remarks are not useful. I just needed reminders how to load and unload drivers, the driver names and how to edit /etc to force the correct driver to always load.
I don't say Ubuntu is the best. I have used the unetbootin bootable flash drive utility and there are lots of great distributions.
One reason to not install Ubuntu is the file swapping subsystem hasn't been working for several years. You can see swap does not work by firing up the performance tool top or the utility free. Yeah, go look for yourself. It has been broken for several years!
If you want to have people switch to linux, first make them use OpenOffice (or LibreOffice), Gimp, Blender, Audacity, VLC, Pidgin, Firefox,... under windows. Try to replace every single app by an application that exists in both linux and windows world.
When they got used to use these application, you may change the OS. Try to get a distribution that is simple to use. I like Mandriva but I've heard that Ubuntu is as easy to use.
Try to configure their window manager/desktop environment (Gnome or KDE) so that the "start" button is in the same lower-left place than on Windows and to have it similar (but with a good looking graphic theme and some nice applets that will be a "plus" over Windows.
Don't forget to install Midnight Commander (specially if the person switching has been using DOS in the past) and a decent text editor (nano, joe, ...) set as default editor (vi is way too disturbing).
It may sound stupid, but don't forget to install PySol as a replacement for windows solitaire/freecell.
And, very important, be available when they'll have questions...Keep in mind that they'll come with questions for month even years... In the beginning, very trivial questions... you'll need to be very patient.
Didn't someone do this? When MS was bailing water because Vista was leaking PR, they did an ad where they showed people Vista without telling them what it was, and recording people going "Oooooh".
Then someone did the same thing with a Linux distro, telling them it was the new Windows, and people also went "Ooooooh", perhaps even more. Can someone find the original? My google-fu fails me today.
I actually prefer the terminal, but the lack of settings in both gnome 3 and unity is surprising. Try comparing it to Windows' control panel. Some of the things they've left out boggle the mind, since it must have been a conscious decision. For a lot of users, the lack of something as comprehensive as the control panel is a big deal, and it certainly would not spoil the design to put in a little "advanced options" button.
--
I have been using Linux as my primary OS on my laptop for 5-6 years and agree with teething pains but alot has changed.
As with anything, with change comes change sound obvious but it is often forgotten. Linux is not windows and windows is not linux and the choice of linux distro and desktop to meet your needs is important.
I am running Ubuntu (Debian derivative) on a Lenovo ThinkPad W510 and previously a R61.
My Nvidia drivers work well
My battery life is long than my Windows 7 dual-boot partition
Trackpad, Thinklight, thumb-track, finger scanner etc all work
Wireless, ether, Broadband adapter all work 100% (and in some cases better than windows)
So from a hardware perspective I am better off using Linux.
From a productivity perspective, the only difficulty I am currently experiencing is
* websites who foolishly and selfishly force their patrons to use Internet Explorer - these I boycott so no real loss for me.
* MS Office 2010 compatibility. Libre Office has come along way and IMHO a great office suite but its 2010 compatibility is not always great although it handle most things beautifully.
* Corporate Email on MS Exchange 2010 is a challenge and I am relegated to using its web interface.
Given the choice, I would remain with Linux and simply work around the challenges.
He who play in root soon kill tree
evangelism sux. just enjoy what you have, share if asked
And await a [law]suit from Microsoft.
Upward mobility is a slippery slope - the higher you climb the more you show your ass.
I have run the 64bit version extensively and have tried to get it running properly, no dice.
Don't know why you've had such problems with Ubuntu.
I've been running the 32-bit version since before the 2004 release and started running the 64-bit version full-time with 9.4. Currently have one desktop system running 32-bit (because it is such a pain to upgrade to 64) and 5 desktops running the 64-bit (one of those is mythbuntu). It has been at least two releases with no special problems that did not also occur on 32-bit. Another 3 systems run the 64-bit sometimes (dual-boot with windows vista and windows 7) and again no special problems.
Running the current 64-bit version is even easier since they've had multiarch support.
I also have one debian server running a 64-bit kernel with a 32-bit userland just because it is useful and was so easy to upgrade the kernel.
I'm reading your posting and I see a lot of hostility to switching to a non-Microsoft OS. Why so much anger?
Mint. Ubuntu has jumped the shark. Mint does what you want it to do without religion or agenda.
There is no setup LINW - Linux is Not Windows.
Recipes for USA bankrupt - http://tinypaste.com/0d66f dd = dollar deluge (printed in the infinity)
I'd recommend http://lxde.org/
Casteism
Those shoes are 300 fucking dollars.
Let's get 'em.
Write failed: Broken pipe
Zorin OS
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/switching-windows-linux-easier-zorin-os/
recently his medion laptop was completely clogged, the recovery disks were gone and i found out microsoft doesnt allow download of an iso even if you still have the serial stuck to the bottom of that pc you bought. So i thought what the heck : ubuntu. Installed it, put everything he uses in nice clean icons on the desktop and he doesn't seem to have a problem operating it. Google, youtube, musicplayer, photo collection, email, skype, urls as links in icons the desktop. Only thing i cant get to work is the internal mic, i had to stick a usb cam in so he can call his friends and be called, other than that months later i havent had a single complaint
Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?
Set up my father-in-law with Linux Mint and an XP theme package. For the casual users, it looks and feels almost exactly like XP (except for some variances in the control panel & software repository). My wife also runs Mint (without the XP theme). She's far from a tech geek & loves it. As noted before, switching to most versions of Linux will be less of a jolt than Windows 7 or 8 (from XP). Also, LibreOffice doesn't have those incredibly irritating ribbon interfaces that Microsoft Office adopted. BTW, Libreoffice will save docs in Office format if needed.
I personally know of about a dozen people who've tried Linux (in various forms). All of them were glad they did so. Especially great for older machines that groan when booting Vista.
Give them Ubuntu 12.04 and tell them it is Windows 8!
I second that, Ubuntu is really easy to use, and if you don't know what application you want you can use that Unity dashboard search to find an application. I was using Kubuntu the other day, and I have to say from an ease-of-us standpoint Ubuntu is easier, although I could probably do my work faster on Kubuntu once I get to know it better.
I just figure most people are going to go with the simple and easy to use over the productive and advanced way.
Some of the things they've left out boggle the mind, since it must have been a conscious decision.
I'm pretty sure it was a conscious decision. Search this page for "The Question of Preferences". Try installing CompizConfig to get a lot of the settings back.
Give them Ubuntu 12.04 and tell them it is Windows 8!
"So that new version of Windows you gave me, it really sucks."
"See, first off, the fonts look all weird. They are not as sharp and good looking as the Windows 7 fonts. I'm not sure what Microsoft was thinking."
"Second, after I updated, my sound stopped working, completely. At first I thought it was my speakers, but it doesn't work with headphones either."
"Third, none of my games install. My son really hates this version of Windows."
"Fourth, the new version of Office doesn't work with any of my files from work. When I open them, they are sized all weird, look corrupted, and none of the equations and macros work. The menus area completely wrong too."
"Fifth, when I put my computer to sleep, after it wakes up, the screen stays black and doesn't come back. I have to manually restart because it's all locked up."
"Sixth, after that update, I can no longer connect to my wireless router. What is Microsoft thinking?"
"Anyway, I told my friend about all these problems and he suggested something called Linux. Have you heard of it? He said it will fix my computer."
10.10 is EOL, do NOT install this as it no longer receives ANY security updates. 10.04 is supported until April 2013, but do you really want to make them go through the "migration" as second time?!?
My recommendation (if you go with Ubuntu) would be 12.04 (supported until April 2017, so 4.5 years) and pick a DE that they will be comfortable with (XFCE or LXDE tend to be the easiest for non-technical windows converts).
For end-users I would recommand Ubuntu or Mint because their purpose is to work "out of the box" with a pretty simple installation wizard (although I would recommand you to install the distribution), easilly installed video blob drivers and other closed drivers.
I wouldn't recommand using KDE since it looks like Windows at a first sight but it is not! So users will complain about that or this functionality is missing. You won't have the problem with Unity or Gnome of XFCE since it is really different but easy to learn.
BUT I would say that the best choice is the one you master the most since you'll be the first one to help them in case of any problem ;)
Whatever distribution et desktop you choose, the most important thing is to take some times to teach them the basis:
- how to install a new application (a lot of Windows users are amazed to see how easy and fast it is! Although much more users are now used to Apple Store, Market and other centralized software repository)
- how to find these newly installed applications and add them to the dashboard
- be sure they can :
- change the wallpaper
- listen to music
- watch movies
- surf on internet/retrieve mails
- write some letters with openoffice
- print documents and photos
After all, ask them if there is something else they want to do with their computer and try to find a solution if there is. Sometimes, they will ask you some very precise operations and after talking and understanding their global purpose you'll understand that you can't do it with Linux in that way but can achive the same result with another workflow.