I don't think it really works like that. I have bought all the bundles (1-3, FB, FB-Syn) and always gave much more than average. Yet, I have played in total exactly one game in all those bundles. That game was World of Goo and you'll notice that it was in HB1.
Now, why exactly did I pay these games? Well, first it is to encourage cross-platform gaming. I am voting with my dollar (Euro actually, which makes these bundles more affordable to me in the first place). Second, you are supporting the EFF and Childs Play. Whether this is worthwhile, is another thing. Third, I simply like the concept of "pay what you want". Last, but not least, I still hope that someday I'll find the time to play... I have work, I have family, I have responsibilities.... I don't really have time to game. Perhaps if some day I get unemployed or so, but then I'd probably worry to death.
So, if many people in the Linux (less so in the Mac) segment thought like I did, there is no guarantee of a +50% increase of sales if Linux or Mac are supported. I sure hope we can dupe game publishers into thinking that, but I don't really think it will happen. Support from the game publishers is a validation of the Linux platform, that's why I think it is important.... Me? Playing the games? Probably won't happen.
Once, major publishers start to sell Linux games, it is very likely that I will buy as many Linux games as I did buy Windows games in the past 10 years... That would be zero.
It's worse than that... The operating systems from Redmond for these machines are limited to 1GB RAM by Redmond itself. You can't call it a Netbook and get the cheapest version of 7 if it has more than 1GB RAM. See for yourself. Of course, the OEMs can ship Home Premium if they want, but that's going to cost them more which is annoying on the razor-thin margins that netbooks have.
Understandably... Given the zoo of updaters you get by installing just a handful applications, I too disable disable them, except for Windows update itself. (Well, I used to, I still have a XP copy somewhere on an old laptop, I migrated fully to Linux years ago). However, doing that and running as Limited User pretty much took care of not being infected. It also helped, not using the system browser.
As I understand, these days infection most often occurs over Adobe Flash, Adobe Reader, Internet Explorer, in that order.
No, they are not. Many, many people turn off GPRS/3G/$CELLTECHNOLOGY_OF_THE_DAY by default to save on charges. Not everyone has a "flat" plan. I'd wager to say, most don't. Also, if you leave your country of origin (I realize that's not a problem in the US), then you have insane roaming charges. People are careful whether they use their phones for online activities. Even those stupid "wheather" applications that come by default on some HTC Phones rack up considerable charges if not turned off.
Sorry, for the double post. I see now why you pitted a Netbook against a P-IV which vastly outclassed it. This stems from my statement:
The CPU power of even these crappy-low-end-cheap Atoms beat most P-IV CPUs
That statement was pretty clumsy. I actually meant that all current Atoms are crappy-low-end-and-cheap (compared to anything else you can buy these days), not that the crappiest Atoms would match a P-iV. They definitely can't, especially not the single-core ones present in Netbooks. My mistake for stating it that way.
As for my "desktop", I bought it in Germany: Alternate ECO-BOX 320/2G. Luxembourg is one of the worst EU countries to buy stuff online, so I usually resort to Germany but many companies don't ship to us. Oddly enough, some tech companies have their HQ here but still don't ship here. *sigh*
Keyword here is "Netbook". Look at the "desktop" Atoms, they are really, really different. You don't get dual cores at all in Netbooks (They almost all are Hyperthreaded, but that's not a second core. However so many people mistake it for one.). This is mainly due to how Microsoft sells 7 Starter, which comes with most, if not all, netbooks. So you most likely tested an N270 (Most common Atom in low-end netbooks).... Look the passmark up for that one. I also said "future" Atoms, currently we're not there yet.
If it weren't for the artificial limitation that Microsoft put on 7 Starter, I could easily see a D525 in a netbook. There were some Atom 330 netbooks with ION chipsets too.
Around here => Luxembourg. We are known to have more money, which explains the difference.
Compared to a single AMD Athlon XP 2400+ with 431 points, it looks a bit suspect but possible (I'd expect less than perfect scaling when going from one to two processors).
Look at other CPUs where you can check Single versus SMP configurations. They pretty much all scale in that way. The CPU mark is really just the CPU "strength" measured, and not overal system performance, where "rest" weights in too. I suspect the algorithm used to test the CPU performance scales exceptionally well with more cores. It's a design flaw, I suspect is mitigated by the other tests.
You are right about the Core, if you used the Core Duo (without the "2") as basis for comparison.
I admit, that I've been a bit unfair because I compared it to Core 2 Duo laptop CPUs. I did see that the desktop CPUs beat the crap out of it. Laptops CPU's didn't: Look at the Core 2 Duo T5300 which is from Q1 2007, according to wikipedia. You caught me...:-P Still, do remember we are talking here about a machine that is 8 years old, for which I find the results still quite impressive. The thing is, how soon until Atoms catch up with those early Core 2 Duo laptop CPUS, and given their power use, it is entirely fair to compare them to (old) laptop CPUs. The CPU power of even these crappy-low-end-cheap Atoms beat most P-IV CPUs for which this PCI card would be interesting, and as a bonus you'd get pretty capable integrated graphics.
Funnily enough, my former desktop was a AMD X2 4200+/4GB. Nifty machine, but I "upgraded" my moms machine (Socket 754, AMD64/2GB RAM) using that hardware when I got the Atom D525 for 199€. For me the space it used trumped the fact that it was less powerful than the X2. There is something to be said for a machine as tiny as a consumer-router which can be mounted on the back of an (old 19") LCD.
Refurbishing old P4 machines is simply not worth my time anymore, unless I have a bunch of parts that are known to be OK. Stuff from dumpsters needs triage, because some of it got there for being defective;-)
I just recently stopped with dumpster diving. The P-IV class machines simply aren't worth it at all. (I bought the MP new, it's harder to part with it, than anything you take out of a dumpster) However, most of the "being defective" really seems to be completely screwed up Redmond Installations. It is actually very rare that the hardware itself is defective. Well, there are foul batches. For example, you can't trust any PATA harddisk in the range of 160GB. Back then, the quality with all manufacturers dropped significantly. Too many returns made them get their act together again. That said, you don't find them often, as they are usually already gone for a long time. Also, people have become more savvy: often they destroy the disks before disposal.
Similar for some motherboards around that period (2.4/2.6GHz P-IV). They tend to have bad caps. All in all, the most common problems with dumpster sourced computers are in order: Windows hosed... and far beyond that, Powersupply hosed, bad caps, defective harddisk... I think I'd look at the occasional X2 or Core2Duo, but I have a really hard time giving them away, even after I checked them on functionality and reinstalled the system (Preferably Ubuntu, but I've done XP too) Given the time it takes to refurbish them, it is economically non-viable in any scenario. I do/did it for the fun, but I end up with 20 (functional) computers without a use and without anyone wanting them.
Weird, my experience is that Linux is actually great at supporting older graphics cards. It usually chokes on the new cards. You can run Compiz on a GeForce2 MX. Try finding Windows 7 drivers for that. A hint: Anything older than the GeForce 6-series is not supported on Windows 7, at all... NVidia simply doesn't provide drivers.
ATI is actually pretty surprising on Linux because the open source drivers work wonderfully. I just googled reviews of your laptop so I could date it. It's from around 2006. My (second) personal laptop is also from that time-frame. It's a Fujitsu-Siemens Pa1510 and has something called an ATI X1100. It's pretty badly documented to what it really is. To get drivers on Windows, it's a pain because AMD/ATI says "it's up to the laptop manufacturer" and those obviously don't want to support such "ancient" machines. On Linux there even aren't any proprietary drivers, but the stock drivers work including compiz.
Recently, I've taken out my old AMD Athlon MP 2400+. Yes, that's a dual processor machine and it's eight and a half years old. The graphics card in it (and it's really picky about which AGP card you put in it. A GeForce 6600GT didn't work) is just a NVidia FX 5500 (It originally had a Ti4200, but that didn't do DX9.0 and it made a lot of noise because of the fan. The FX5500 is passively cooled). Why do I tell you this? Because I toyed around with it, trying Windows 7 for kicks 'n giggles. The experience was horrible, just in case you wondered.
Thing is, I was wondering what the CPU would score on a Passmark test. It wasn't listed before I submitted my "scores". Why do I tell you this? Because this "beast" of a machine is on par with early Core 2 Duo CPUs used in laptops. It is also very close to "on-par" with my current desktop.... which is... an Atom D525. That's food for thought. I bought that Atom D525 as a complete machine with 2GB RAM and 320GB HDD for a mere 199€. I'd wager to say that you're better off with modern Atom than than to upgrade the graphics card on an old machine. Also note that, while the graphic chipset in that Atom is one of those sucky GMAs, it's enough to run Windows 7 Aero (I don't use Windows, but I did test it). That's the point of the PCI card the story is about: be able to run Windows 7 fully. There are no Windows 7 drivers for anything prior to the Geforce6 series as I have found out on the NVidia website. (5FX series has Vista drivers, though)
I'm not very fond of my Atom desktop. For some reason, Firefox is very slow on it. I don't know why. I have used machines less powerful than it where the browser worked fine. I blame Firefox because it's an "old" version that comes with Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (the last "good" Ubuntu release).
I used to be a tech dumpster diver, but the insanely cheap-but-good-enough hardware makes it unviable to refurbish any machines I can get my hands on. (Currently seems to be 2GHz++ Pentium IV or AMD Athlon XP, and early AMD64 and Core2Duo)
Well thanks for clearing that up. I knew it would run on coal dust, but I wasn't aware it was designed to do that. I'm pretty sure it could run on anything "dust" as long as the dust was burnable (flour for example?). Modern day Diesels probably wouldn't like that though;-)
Gasification is a process in which any organic fuel is turned into 'syngas,' a mixture of carbon dioxide/monoxide, hydrogen, and methane which can be used in conventional internal combustion engines
Just for those who don't know. This was very popular during and after WW-II in Germany as gas supplies were next to non-existent. In these gasification systems, you could burn pretty much anything combustible. Wood was popular a popular choice. It's a very old technology.
Not 100% related, but the original Diesel engine, ran on peanut oil. Fossil fuels only got used later in Diesel technology.
What the point was of this article? There is no meat at all in there. I expected a complete deep technical overview of UEFI, not something you can summarize as "It's a little operating system providing services to the actual operating system".
I know, I replied already to another posted. You only have the BIOS option if your machine has the hardware multiplexer. The Dell L502x hasn't, so I can't. I know about bumblebee. As you guessed, since I barely had time to set it up (and it isn't used at this moment), I most certainly won't be starting to compile and install experimental kernel modules. I'm perfectly fine with it gathering dust in the corner.:-)
True, true... I loved that machine and used it many years (with Linux) where others considered it obsolete already. (I decommissioned it in December 2001)
I've been researching about it since I found out. There are two categories of Optimus laptops... Those with a hardware multiplexer and those without. If you have the hardware multiplexer, you can disabled the feature in the BIOS. Alas, I have one without a hardware multiplexer.:-(
There is a open source project attempting to work around the problems called Bumblebee/Ironhide.
Rarely? Ehm... I'd argue it is the most common way people get exposed to Linux (or other OSS operating systems). They hear of it, they try it out on their machine or an older machine they have lying around. I'd wager that 95% of all LInux users started off that way. Me included. My first Linux desktop was a Toshiba Satellite 210CT that came with Windows 95. It couldn't run newer iterations of Redmond software (Well, it could, but just booting a system doesn't get you very far) and I switched to a (easy for back then) Slackware derivative.
I know... I recently bought a Dell L502x. I got a coupon for 50% off and paying 525€ for a Quad Core i7 with 4GB RAM seemed like a good deal especially it came with an NVidia graphic chip. NVidia is usually well supported on Linux. Or so I thought. It's a weird Hybrid solution between Intel integrated graphics and discrete NVidia called "Optimus". It doesn't work well at all under Linux.
Luckily, lack of time caused that the machine got basically unboxed and that's it. It's been sitting it it's laptop bag ever since while I continue using my old machines.
And nowadays there's lots of computers available without Windows, or you can just build it yourself.
Any pointers, especially for laptops? system76, I heard about. Now one I can actually use and buy stuff from on mainland Europe? I've seen some at alternate.de coming with FreeDOS or some unknown linux, but most of the time those are the bottom barrel machines and nothing high-end.
I know nothing about Angry Birds. As a matter of fact, I haven't ever played it nor do I ever have seen it being played by someone else. I know, I live under a rock. However, I sincerely doubt that they would leave out such a market. Now, it might be recent, but their download page says: Now available on PC.
I might have misunderstood your statement though... Perhaps, you meant "You don't need a Windows desktop to play Angry Birds", which is obviously true...
Slashdot Mirror
Desura is now in public beta for Linux...
I don't think it really works like that. I have bought all the bundles (1-3, FB, FB-Syn) and always gave much more than average. Yet, I have played in total exactly one game in all those bundles. That game was World of Goo and you'll notice that it was in HB1.
Now, why exactly did I pay these games? Well, first it is to encourage cross-platform gaming. I am voting with my dollar (Euro actually, which makes these bundles more affordable to me in the first place). Second, you are supporting the EFF and Childs Play. Whether this is worthwhile, is another thing. Third, I simply like the concept of "pay what you want". Last, but not least, I still hope that someday I'll find the time to play... I have work, I have family, I have responsibilities.... I don't really have time to game. Perhaps if some day I get unemployed or so, but then I'd probably worry to death.
So, if many people in the Linux (less so in the Mac) segment thought like I did, there is no guarantee of a +50% increase of sales if Linux or Mac are supported. I sure hope we can dupe game publishers into thinking that, but I don't really think it will happen. Support from the game publishers is a validation of the Linux platform, that's why I think it is important.... Me? Playing the games? Probably won't happen.
Once, major publishers start to sell Linux games, it is very likely that I will buy as many Linux games as I did buy Windows games in the past 10 years... That would be zero.
It's worse than that... The operating systems from Redmond for these machines are limited to 1GB RAM by Redmond itself. You can't call it a Netbook and get the cheapest version of 7 if it has more than 1GB RAM. See for yourself. Of course, the OEMs can ship Home Premium if they want, but that's going to cost them more which is annoying on the razor-thin margins that netbooks have.
Next time, I'll read the article... Promised, because that's what it says, except I forgot Java... :-) Who installs that anyway? ;-)
Understandably... Given the zoo of updaters you get by installing just a handful applications, I too disable disable them, except for Windows update itself. (Well, I used to, I still have a XP copy somewhere on an old laptop, I migrated fully to Linux years ago). However, doing that and running as Limited User pretty much took care of not being infected. It also helped, not using the system browser.
As I understand, these days infection most often occurs over Adobe Flash, Adobe Reader, Internet Explorer, in that order.
I'm 34... and still do that. It's not something I do consciously.
Ah, my mistake.
No, they are not. Many, many people turn off GPRS/3G/$CELLTECHNOLOGY_OF_THE_DAY by default to save on charges. Not everyone has a "flat" plan. I'd wager to say, most don't. Also, if you leave your country of origin (I realize that's not a problem in the US), then you have insane roaming charges. People are careful whether they use their phones for online activities. Even those stupid "wheather" applications that come by default on some HTC Phones rack up considerable charges if not turned off.
Sorry, for the double post. I see now why you pitted a Netbook against a P-IV which vastly outclassed it. This stems from my statement:
That statement was pretty clumsy. I actually meant that all current Atoms are crappy-low-end-and-cheap (compared to anything else you can buy these days), not that the crappiest Atoms would match a P-iV. They definitely can't, especially not the single-core ones present in Netbooks. My mistake for stating it that way.
As for my "desktop", I bought it in Germany: Alternate ECO-BOX 320/2G. Luxembourg is one of the worst EU countries to buy stuff online, so I usually resort to Germany but many companies don't ship to us. Oddly enough, some tech companies have their HQ here but still don't ship here. *sigh*
Keyword here is "Netbook". Look at the "desktop" Atoms, they are really, really different. You don't get dual cores at all in Netbooks (They almost all are Hyperthreaded, but that's not a second core. However so many people mistake it for one.). This is mainly due to how Microsoft sells 7 Starter, which comes with most, if not all, netbooks. So you most likely tested an N270 (Most common Atom in low-end netbooks).... Look the passmark up for that one. I also said "future" Atoms, currently we're not there yet.
If it weren't for the artificial limitation that Microsoft put on 7 Starter, I could easily see a D525 in a netbook. There were some Atom 330 netbooks with ION chipsets too.
Around here => Luxembourg. We are known to have more money, which explains the difference.
Look at other CPUs where you can check Single versus SMP configurations. They pretty much all scale in that way. The CPU mark is really just the CPU "strength" measured, and not overal system performance, where "rest" weights in too. I suspect the algorithm used to test the CPU performance scales exceptionally well with more cores. It's a design flaw, I suspect is mitigated by the other tests.
I admit, that I've been a bit unfair because I compared it to Core 2 Duo laptop CPUs. I did see that the desktop CPUs beat the crap out of it. Laptops CPU's didn't: Look at the Core 2 Duo T5300 which is from Q1 2007, according to wikipedia. You caught me... :-P Still, do remember we are talking here about a machine that is 8 years old, for which I find the results still quite impressive. The thing is, how soon until Atoms catch up with those early Core 2 Duo laptop CPUS, and given their power use, it is entirely fair to compare them to (old) laptop CPUs. The CPU power of even these crappy-low-end-cheap Atoms beat most P-IV CPUs for which this PCI card would be interesting, and as a bonus you'd get pretty capable integrated graphics.
Funnily enough, my former desktop was a AMD X2 4200+/4GB. Nifty machine, but I "upgraded" my moms machine (Socket 754, AMD64/2GB RAM) using that hardware when I got the Atom D525 for 199€. For me the space it used trumped the fact that it was less powerful than the X2. There is something to be said for a machine as tiny as a consumer-router which can be mounted on the back of an (old 19") LCD.
I just recently stopped with dumpster diving. The P-IV class machines simply aren't worth it at all. (I bought the MP new, it's harder to part with it, than anything you take out of a dumpster) However, most of the "being defective" really seems to be completely screwed up Redmond Installations. It is actually very rare that the hardware itself is defective. Well, there are foul batches. For example, you can't trust any PATA harddisk in the range of 160GB. Back then, the quality with all manufacturers dropped significantly. Too many returns made them get their act together again. That said, you don't find them often, as they are usually already gone for a long time. Also, people have become more savvy: often they destroy the disks before disposal.
Similar for some motherboards around that period (2.4/2.6GHz P-IV). They tend to have bad caps. All in all, the most common problems with dumpster sourced computers are in order: Windows hosed ... and far beyond that, Powersupply hosed, bad caps, defective harddisk... I think I'd look at the occasional X2 or Core2Duo, but I have a really hard time giving them away, even after I checked them on functionality and reinstalled the system (Preferably Ubuntu, but I've done XP too) Given the time it takes to refurbish them, it is economically non-viable in any scenario. I do/did it for the fun, but I end up with 20 (functional) computers without a use and without anyone wanting them.
Weird, my experience is that Linux is actually great at supporting older graphics cards. It usually chokes on the new cards. You can run Compiz on a GeForce2 MX. Try finding Windows 7 drivers for that. A hint: Anything older than the GeForce 6-series is not supported on Windows 7, at all... NVidia simply doesn't provide drivers.
ATI is actually pretty surprising on Linux because the open source drivers work wonderfully. I just googled reviews of your laptop so I could date it. It's from around 2006. My (second) personal laptop is also from that time-frame. It's a Fujitsu-Siemens Pa1510 and has something called an ATI X1100. It's pretty badly documented to what it really is. To get drivers on Windows, it's a pain because AMD/ATI says "it's up to the laptop manufacturer" and those obviously don't want to support such "ancient" machines. On Linux there even aren't any proprietary drivers, but the stock drivers work including compiz.
Recently, I've taken out my old AMD Athlon MP 2400+. Yes, that's a dual processor machine and it's eight and a half years old. The graphics card in it (and it's really picky about which AGP card you put in it. A GeForce 6600GT didn't work) is just a NVidia FX 5500 (It originally had a Ti4200, but that didn't do DX9.0 and it made a lot of noise because of the fan. The FX5500 is passively cooled). Why do I tell you this? Because I toyed around with it, trying Windows 7 for kicks 'n giggles. The experience was horrible, just in case you wondered.
Thing is, I was wondering what the CPU would score on a Passmark test. It wasn't listed before I submitted my "scores". Why do I tell you this? Because this "beast" of a machine is on par with early Core 2 Duo CPUs used in laptops. It is also very close to "on-par" with my current desktop.... which is... an Atom D525. That's food for thought. I bought that Atom D525 as a complete machine with 2GB RAM and 320GB HDD for a mere 199€. I'd wager to say that you're better off with modern Atom than than to upgrade the graphics card on an old machine. Also note that, while the graphic chipset in that Atom is one of those sucky GMAs, it's enough to run Windows 7 Aero (I don't use Windows, but I did test it). That's the point of the PCI card the story is about: be able to run Windows 7 fully. There are no Windows 7 drivers for anything prior to the Geforce6 series as I have found out on the NVidia website. (5FX series has Vista drivers, though)
I'm not very fond of my Atom desktop. For some reason, Firefox is very slow on it. I don't know why. I have used machines less powerful than it where the browser worked fine. I blame Firefox because it's an "old" version that comes with Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (the last "good" Ubuntu release).
I used to be a tech dumpster diver, but the insanely cheap-but-good-enough hardware makes it unviable to refurbish any machines I can get my hands on. (Currently seems to be 2GHz++ Pentium IV or AMD Athlon XP, and early AMD64 and Core2Duo)
Well thanks for clearing that up. I knew it would run on coal dust, but I wasn't aware it was designed to do that. I'm pretty sure it could run on anything "dust" as long as the dust was burnable (flour for example?). Modern day Diesels probably wouldn't like that though ;-)
Just for those who don't know. This was very popular during and after WW-II in Germany as gas supplies were next to non-existent. In these gasification systems, you could burn pretty much anything combustible. Wood was popular a popular choice. It's a very old technology.
Not 100% related, but the original Diesel engine, ran on peanut oil. Fossil fuels only got used later in Diesel technology.
What the point was of this article? There is no meat at all in there. I expected a complete deep technical overview of UEFI, not something you can summarize as "It's a little operating system providing services to the actual operating system".
As you have obviously read in my post, I was aware of System76. I wasn't about ZaReason. From what I gather from their websites, it's US only.
I know, I replied already to another posted. You only have the BIOS option if your machine has the hardware multiplexer. The Dell L502x hasn't, so I can't. I know about bumblebee. As you guessed, since I barely had time to set it up (and it isn't used at this moment), I most certainly won't be starting to compile and install experimental kernel modules. I'm perfectly fine with it gathering dust in the corner. :-)
True, true... I loved that machine and used it many years (with Linux) where others considered it obsolete already. (I decommissioned it in December 2001)
I've been researching about it since I found out. There are two categories of Optimus laptops... Those with a hardware multiplexer and those without. If you have the hardware multiplexer, you can disabled the feature in the BIOS. Alas, I have one without a hardware multiplexer. :-(
There is a open source project attempting to work around the problems called Bumblebee/Ironhide.
Rarely? Ehm... I'd argue it is the most common way people get exposed to Linux (or other OSS operating systems). They hear of it, they try it out on their machine or an older machine they have lying around. I'd wager that 95% of all LInux users started off that way. Me included. My first Linux desktop was a Toshiba Satellite 210CT that came with Windows 95. It couldn't run newer iterations of Redmond software (Well, it could, but just booting a system doesn't get you very far) and I switched to a (easy for back then) Slackware derivative.
I know... I recently bought a Dell L502x. I got a coupon for 50% off and paying 525€ for a Quad Core i7 with 4GB RAM seemed like a good deal especially it came with an NVidia graphic chip. NVidia is usually well supported on Linux. Or so I thought. It's a weird Hybrid solution between Intel integrated graphics and discrete NVidia called "Optimus". It doesn't work well at all under Linux.
Luckily, lack of time caused that the machine got basically unboxed and that's it. It's been sitting it it's laptop bag ever since while I continue using my old machines.
Any pointers, especially for laptops? system76, I heard about. Now one I can actually use and buy stuff from on mainland Europe? I've seen some at alternate.de coming with FreeDOS or some unknown linux, but most of the time those are the bottom barrel machines and nothing high-end.
I know nothing about Angry Birds. As a matter of fact, I haven't ever played it nor do I ever have seen it being played by someone else. I know, I live under a rock. However, I sincerely doubt that they would leave out such a market. Now, it might be recent, but their download page says: Now available on PC.
I might have misunderstood your statement though... Perhaps, you meant "You don't need a Windows desktop to play Angry Birds", which is obviously true...
That's what I do for personal stuff... Works fine.